Our Secular Coalition visit to the White House

Regarding the biased information in this article on Christian Science, I have been a member of this church, and related faiths, for over 25 years, and I have seen remarkable recoveries from a wide variety of ailments, that medical opinion would call impossible.

To assume that the medical solution, which in many cases is based on guesswork and can be subject to incorrect diagnosis and errors in treatment, is the only answer is to disregard centuries of proven alternative and complementary treatments.

For the record, the choice of healthcare for Christian Science families is not mandated but free choice. Christian Science parents are by and large caring, concerned and informed, and trust in prayer because it has worked for them.

Here in far-away Britain, across the pond, you'll find many who were delighted to hear of the meeting with Obama's aides. And not all of us are religion-bashers. There are growing communities of open-minded humanists who utterly reject the supernatural but respect the poetic, mythic, and sometimes inspirational language of religious discourse. They include nontheist Quakers andd Unitarians, and members of the Sea of Faith movement who understand religion as a wholly human creation. Interested? Bemused? Try reading "Godless for God's Sake", by 27 Nontheist Quakers from the USA, Britain, New Zealand and Australia, edited by David Boulton and available through Amazon and other internet booksellers. You might find it adds a rich new dimension to your secularism.

B-R-E-A-K-I-N-G --- N-E-W-S:

"IN "IT" WE TRUST"

It's Official; MOSES & JESUS & MUHAMMAD, was Closet ATHEISTS because they believed in "IT", born from our Holy BIG-BANG. And

VYASA & GAUTAMA was closet AGNOSTICS because they too suspected the BIG-BANG or was it BIG-FLASH 1st, then Bang 2nd & Vibrations 3rd?.

Note: Recently Big Mouth Singer Sir ELTON JOHN said "JESUS IS GAY"; So Who cares!-?

WE SECULARIST & NONTHEISTS, a/k/a ATHEISTS & AGNOSTICS... don't Discriminate. All Are Welcome to Reality, a/k/a TRUTH!

"IN "IT" WE TRUST"

The Election is Coming, The Election is Coming, The Ele.....

As usual the vitriol that emanates from the religious right is of no help. Our freedom to worship or not as we please depend on the constant vigilance of organizations like the Secular Coalition of America. Hurrah for the Obama administration's decision to recognize and give voice to those who would stand up for our liberties as described in our nation's constitution.

An update on the two recently arrested for setting 10 fires in Texas churches.

"TYLER, Texas — Even as authorities closed in, one of the two suspects in a string of east Texas church fires attended a Sunday service and went to a Baptist ministry on his junior college campus for a free meal."

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/southwest/view/20100301texas_church_arson_suspects_grew_up_together/srvc=home&position=recent

chops2 wrote "i seem to recall a while back u claiming that it was only athiests and secularists that burned churches..."

This is a false accusation but reading the same article you presented, the arsonist WAS a former Christian and became a secularists and a fan of Friedrich Nietzsche who is an atheist.

As I always say, stupidity is self-destructive. It's been proven again with this church burning.

For BobMoses,

I have no problem with being tolerant of other people's views, as long as they aren't imposed onto captive audiences or in conjunction with government business. Feel free to believe, and to express your belief, in as many gods or as few gods as you wish -- as long as there is no expectation that I have to be part of your discussion.

Oh, a side question. Why is it that Christianists is so intent on putting plaques of the Ten Commandments on public lands but almost never put them on the front lawns of their own churches?

US-Conscience: "'subjected to proselytizing' - Oh the humanity!!! Does that include having conversations with someone of faith concerning eternal matters?"

bobmoses: "Of course! Don't you realize that only atheists are allowed to discuss spiritual matters?"

There are proper places for such discussions: houses of worship, prayer meetings, this blog, the occassional street corner. But government institutions are no place for absolutisms unsupported by evidence or logic (i.e. faith).

No, atheists by definition have no desire to "discuss spiritual matters," nor do secularists wish to dictate any such discussion. We simply refuse to pay for, or abide by, your various superstitions.

I think that TJMRC has the wrong administration and political party in mind with respect to appointing and hanging out with people of shady morals, etc.

Do "C Street House" and "The Family" ring a bell with you? Senator David Vitter and the head of PEPFAR, who both espoused traditional values, abstinence only, etc. -- except of course for their own use of hookers? The gynecologist in (I think) the Food and Drug Administration who believed in marital rape? Feel like going for a hike along the Appalachian Trail?

There's an extremely and extraordinary long list of Republican politicians and appointees with documented histories of, um, irregularities.

If Christianists feel so comfortable in their own skins, why are they so intent on inflicting their views on other people? Are they trying to convince themselves that if they can persuade others, then maybe their own doubts can be brushed aside?

Thirty-two countries have or had god in their mottos. For example:

Brunei: الدائمون المحسنون بالهدى (Arabic, Always in service with God's guidance)

Confederate States of America: Deo Vindice (Latin, Under God, Our Vindicator)

Denmark: Motto of Queen Margrethe II:

Ecuador: Dios, patria y libertad (Spanish, God, homeland and liberty)[
God's help, the love of the people, Denmark's strength

Dominican Republic: Dios, Patria, Libertad (Spanish, God, Country, Liberty

Morocco: الله، الوطن، الملك (Arabic, God, the Country, the King

Philippines: Maka-Diyos, Maka-Tao, Makakalikasan at Makabansa (Tagalog, For God, People, Nature and Country

Poland: No official motto. Among the unofficial ones Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna (Polish, God, Honor, Fatherland)

Russian Empire - С нами Бог (God is with us)

Considering the moralities (or lack thereof) of obama and those he has chosen as advisors, life mates, government appointees, etc. I'm not surprised that he would be honored to meet with these types.
If you can't find security in self you look outside and find those who appear to have even less security (I know. They put up a big front about being secure) in order to try to achieve the balance you so desparately need.
obama is more to be pitied for his views because the life he led gave him very little moral direction.

Good news! I'm glad to hear that the White House is finally paying some attention to the non-religious as well as the religious.

"" subjected to proselytizing " - Oh the humanity !!!
Does that include having conversations with someone of faith concerning eternal matters?"

Of course! Don't you realize that only atheists are allowed to discuss spiritual matters? Surely you don't expect intellectual consistency from liberals. You might as well expect these people to be tolerant of the views of others. Ain't gonna happen.

" subjected to proselytizing " - Oh the humanity !!!
Does that include having conversations with someone of faith concerning eternal matters ?

Secularists at the White House?

Anything is better than the snake oil salesmen like Dobson and Robertson calling themselves "Fundamentalists." Fundamentally, they are as corrupt as Republican politicians and lobbyists.

Spidermean:
i seem to recall a while back u claiming that it was only athiests and secularists that burned churches....

well...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/us/02church.html?hpw

Another example of how full of s%#t u are

In candor, I don't know anything about the people whom the Secular Coalition got to meet except for their job titles, but except for Mr. Carr from DOD and to a limited extent Mr. Samuels from HHS, it does not appear that any of them are in any position to do anything except politely listen. Most notably absent was anyone, let alone anyone with authority, from the "office of siphoning large amounts of taxpayer money to go primarily to Protestant organizations."

I suspect that Mr. Donahue has had more than one meeting over the past year with actual senior Administration officials during which he put forth his own agenda

"Administration officials included Tina Tchen, Director of the White House Office of Public Engagement; Paul Monteiro, Associate Director of the White House Office of Public Engagement and Intergovernmental Affairs; Bryan Samuels, Commissioner of the Administration on Children, Youth and Families in the Department of Health and Human Services; Mazen Basrawi, Counsel to the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights at the Department of Justice; and Bill Carr, Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Military Personnel."

It's good to know that the Obama administration is meeting sane people. Going by the contents of this thread there aren't a great many of them left in America.
Half the posts are entirely unintelligible or inchoate.
Personally I believe that believing in god is a mental disease and teaching children about the great doo-dad in the sky is child abuse.

"In God We Trust". It is not coincidental that the only nation in the world which proudly expresses this motto is also the most free and staunch defender of freedom.

It can't be said to nations practicing false religions and atheism.

Obama meeting with idiots just exemplifies the stupidity of this president.

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to PREACH unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, FEAR God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his JUDGMENT is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. "

This prophecy has not happened yet but is about to occur a few years from now. Stupidity is self-destructive and it will only hasten the destruction of the idiots if they continue in their stupidity.

As Doomsday nears, the preaching will become louder.

Christians Just because atheists disagree with you doesn’t mean you are persecuted, your paranoia is self inflicted, in a twisted way, it validates your faith. Christians romanticize their persecution, so that you can prove your faith, you feel you must be persecuted for your faith, in fact you crave it. If anything, history shows that it is atheists that should fear you and your story book ethics. Most atheists are free thinkers and as such value freedom of thought much higher than the religious. It is our right of freedom of expression that allows diversity of religions in this country not the unconstitutional phrase “In God We Trust”. Religion breeds intolerance not free thinking.

"In the United States, to be exempt from federal income taxes the organization must meet the requirements set forth by the Internal Revenue Service.[12]"

The Secular Coalition of America apparently pays no federal taxes based on their IRS Form 990.

Well during President Bush's 2 terms Religious Churches got taxpayers money, office in the White House and sent workers to Iraq/Afghanistan to teach children Christian Religion. The mission was to reduce the Muslim Religion and build Religious schools in the USA. Many Pastors got millions as the church preached to worshippers to vote for George W. Bush and all Republicans. It was free money for 8 years until Obama took office. God never got involved in Governments but the Christian Churches saw a profit. Law Makers committed great sin while holding up the Christian Religious Family/Moral Values. But it was said in the bible that Satan would enter the Church and he has.

It has been made clear at least three times on this thread that secularists include believers as well as nonbelievers.

That said, the views of the different secularist populations differ on "degree of separation" as well. Many of us are, in fact, in favor of separating the church and state, along every conceivable line. The "church," as it were, occupies its domains, the state, others.

People are more than welcome to privately gather in their homes or houses of observance, etc. That should be the end of it.

I am astonished at the number of people who equate secularism with atheism. The overwhelming majority of secularists are theists. They, or rather, we just want the government to be as neutral as possible in regards to religion. This is not a call for leaders who are devoid of religious commitments or for policies completely divorced from religious ideals. It is just that such policies must have secular justification as well, and they must be defended on that basis.

Government should be though of as an appliance, an entity created to produce material ends that would be difficult or even impossible by other means. These means should promote the general welfare, the specific purpose that is spelled out in the Constitution. It may have taken our society a long time to fulfill the full logic of its words, which are as secular as my refrigerator.

Kick religion out of the military: If you want to pray, pray. Leave everyone else alone.

End faith-based funding.

End "conscience clauses."

End praying in Congress (also preying)

End nonprofit status for institutions of organized religion.

End Presidential "Faith Councils" (Ick)

MEANWHILE: If you take money from the government, you hire ANYONE qualified, including sand dune worshipers.

Must be this guy's ethnicity. Otherwise this stupid stuff wouldn't be crammable even in neocon/zionist WaPo.

On Faith never fails to maintain it's
grubby, uttly repugnant profile.

Posted by: whistling | March 1, 2010 6:00 PM
Report Offensive Comment
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Gee, the ChristoNazi bastard Whistling is back again from the swamp.

Odd the ChristoNazi bastard who posts all over WaPo has never been banned. I wonder, do he and his go ChristoNazis (not, of course, to say that all Christians are Nazis), speak well for religious institutions' nonprofit status?
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Keep going, Herb. Unlike you, I am a strict separationist, am in the process of trying to find an appropriate activist group, but fear we might have to start one. Secularist activists must include believers, agnostics, atheists committed to separation of church and state.

Creepy.

Hugh7 wrote "When this was written and the Argument from Design was the only argument in town, that statement might have been supportable, but since 1859, it hasn't been."

I hope somebody from the evolutionist side explain how plants were formed thru evolution or natural selection when there was only soil, water, air and the sun.

What kind of selection took place? Selecting the right mud?

Thousands of questions need to be answered first before we allow evolution to jump from sci-fi comic book classification into serious science.

@Spidermean2: '"The FOOL hath said in his heart that there is no God"'
When this was written and the Argument from Design was the only argument in town, that statement might have been supportable, but since 1859, it hasn't been. It's just argument ad hominem (name-calling).

'Not only is this statement biblical, it is also scientific."'

It is? Then of course it will be no trouble for you to cite the peer-reviewed scientific journal/s in which it has been proved. (I expect at least one double-blinded, randomised trial, in which a large number of subjects filled in questionnaires about their heartfelt belief, and IQ tests - or other verifiable measure of folly - with a statistical analysis of the correlation.)

And the claim that "to say in your heart that there is no God makes you ipso facto a fool" begs the question and is therefore inadmissable.

fr spidermean2:

>...This meeting just shows the ignorance of Obama and his advisers.
One meets with mental patients to cure them and not take some advice from them....

No, it does NOT "show the ignorance....". It shows intelligence, and diversity.

Grow UP, spider, and get a life. Quit whining over the FACT that we have an African-American as President.

I can only laugh that the Post calls this blog "OnFaith". Its most prominent voices are atheists.

Yeal9 wondered: what is this group doing that the ACLU is not doing?
__________________________________________
The ACLU engages with the courts to ensure the constitutional rights of individuals not be abridged.
The Secular Coalition for America educates individuals with respect to rational thought v. magical thinking.

"The FOOL hath said in his heart that there is no God"

Not only is this statement biblical, it is also scientific.

This meeting just shows the ignorance of Obama and his advisers.

One meets with mental patients to cure them and not take some advice from them.

It is destructive not only for America but also for the world coz America is a major global player.

Belief should be a personal choice and the government should not be making laws prohibiting people from sharing their faith in any government branch including the military.

Yonkers, New York
01 March 2010

Barack Obama is President of these United States of America, a diverse nation of some 300 million professing different political, ideological, religious, non-religious, ethical and moral values.

It happens that "nontheists" now constitute around 16% of America's total present population of 300 million. That translates to some 48 million "nontheists," a fairly substantial number.

And what good reason is there for a secular President of a secular America not to invite "nontheists" [all Americans] to a meeting at the White House, there to exchange views with them on a number of vital national concerns--when, in fact, President Obama has had no problem with meeting delegations of "theists" such as Roman Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Christian evangelicals and Muslims, the same way in the White House for the same purpose?

I see no good or valid reason for a secular President of these United States to discriminate against "theists" or "non-theists." People belonging to these two major categories are all Americans, and they all have a right to be heard.

Mariano Patalinjug

Must be this guy's ethnicity. Otherwise this stupid stuff wouldn't be crammable even in neocon/zionist WaPo.

On Faith never fails to maintain it's
grubby, uttly repugnant profile.

"By what authority does a secularist judge someone else? Maybe they should; maybe they shouldn't. Who knows where their authority comes from, They certainly can't quote it."

You've never read Aristotle? You've never read any philosophy? You are unaware that we have a legal system based on 1000 years of jurisprudence such that people know if doing something is "against the law" or not. You are unaware that many legal principles of justice from the various systems throughout history often many core judicial concepts that are similar to each other reflecting principles derived from what is needed and what works from thousands of years of history? Not everything is devinely inspired (you don't need a "god" to tell you that its a good thing to allow thievery, for example).
Why do you assume that just because a person doesn't share your faith that they are incapable of being moral actors?

Maybe you should put down your bible and maybe education yourself on topics such as sociology and jurisprudence - actually see how our legal system evolved instead of just assuming that it came from the bible (hint - it didn't)

am encouraged by the White House allowing the meeting with the Secular Coalition. Maybe there is hope for those of us who yearn for separation of church and state. Separation of church and state is necessary if we are to be truly free. Thank you Dr. Silverman.
---------------------

YES!!

Salaries for the Secular Coalition of America as listed on their 2008 IRS Form 990 as $150,695 but the only specific salary noted is for Ron Miller, acting director, who is paid $43,925. So where does the other $106,770 go?
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At least they pay taxes. Unlike the religious organizations that sponge off the American taxpayer.

Who says "no child should" if there is no ultimate authority giving out the rules. These people don't speak for secularists, since secularists have no common credo or agreed set of beliefs.
As such, they can't judge others who don't follow their rules, since they don't have any
--------------------

So , what you are saying is that only God and priests get to make the rules , eh? There have been "rules", "morality" and "laws" before organized religion and without religion. And if there is no God ( as I suspect) your rules come from nowhere.

correction:

On Point 2:Projecting Anyone's religion or discriminating or Coerced against any Military/Militia Man or Woman's (Spiritual) belief must meet the "NO ASK NO TELL" or is it "No Tell No Ask" requirement before the Gay Requirement! But with a twist.

WE Salute All Peacenicks!

Jayyoung1: Say What?

You sound new. Can you pleaza tell us where you have posted onwapo so I can compare me light with your light? then maybe i can be more clear; just for you. ya?

LEEH1: You mentioned the Word "COMMANDMENT"

I don't know if your aware of this; But not long ago (latter 2009 Early Jan) in NORTH CAROLINA (John Edwards's turf) there's a JUDICIAL-WATCH or an ACLU ProBono-case involving that States very Constitution which Discriminates against SECULARs, NONDEISTS, NONTHEISTS... running for an Office thus requiring that ONLY (Abrahamic) GOD? BELIEVERS can hold their Public Office Monopoly after "Swearing" against their Bible or some such similar [true] story.

Please, I'm too tired to look for the articles. Knock Yourself out.

The Election is Coming The Election is coming the Election is Coming.. Not GOD!

One assumes that non-profits are there for the benefit of the recipients of the cause not as profit makers for the founders of these groups.

Many non-profits also have large holdings in stocks and other securities giving evidence that these groups are also used not to assist people or causes but are investment vehicles that are free from federal taxes on dividends, interest and capital gains. This income then is taken by the group founders and directors as salaries and bonuses.

How interesting. The writer uses the phrases "no child should" and "no service members should", but where on earth do these people get these rules of what should be done and what should not be done?

Who says "no child should" if there is no ultimate authority giving out the rules. These people don't speak for secularists, since secularists have no common credo or agreed set of beliefs.

As such, they can't judge others who don't follow their rules, since they don't have any.

You may not agree with the "shalt nots" of the Ten Commandments, but if "Do what thy wilt" is the only commandment you agree to, then you can't judge or condemn someone who practices it.

By what authority does a secularist judge someone else? Maybe they should; maybe they shouldn't. Who knows where their authority comes from, They certainly can't quote it.

oldsong1... Your posts are nearly indecipherable, and I'm not reading them anymore. Is that how you talk?

I am so pleased that we finally have a President who can acknowledge the existence of the non-theistic community and treat it with the respect it deserves. Progress is slow but this IS progress.

What is so obvious here is that the REAL mean and hate filled people are Hannity and his fellow pundits.

AJJJ:
Interesting; Yes, "SECULAR-DAY" (non Theo) of FEB.26th.2010 and exactly 2-weeks from CHARLES DARWIN'S Birth-Day (Bless Him); that "IT" shall always be remembered as a day when the U.S.A. Faith-Based Council (began during the CLINTON Administration of 1990's) had finally opened the-peoples doors to the "NON-THEISTS"

Yet there is another moment in time that All Non-Theists, Secularists, Agnostics, et al should be Proud about and mindful of and also to be recorded in their Calendars (Gregorian or not) AND it is the Day when

MITT ROMNEY, during his Presidential Run against Brother OBAMA, Sister Clinton , Big Mouth Huckabee and others who said (about Non-Theoists)

"...Guess they (non Believer of Christianity et al) believe in something Bigger than they are.." or selves. Similarly blurted.

Note: The Reason why Obama met with the VATICAN king is because they have so much money, next to or equal to the the Largest Corporation on [THIS] Earth. I'm Sure Catholic Money stowed/Hidden away in "Off-Shore-Banks" can have good or better use in these no=so-Good ole/new U.S. of A. They Own Bank Of America and have biggest Investments in Nuklear Power Plants all over the World.?

On Point 1: Children are our Prophets, but without the Profit motive. Children, a/k/a Posterity is who We LIVE for and must Die For. No God or its about "IT"!

On Point 2:Projecting Anyone's religion or discriminating against a Military/Militia Man/Wom (Spiritual) belief must meet the "NO ASK NO TELL" or is it "No Ask No Tell" requirement before the Gay Requirement! But with a twist.

On Point 3: The White House Faith Based "Executive Order Creation" should be un-created. Faith based Business (especially when it comes to FOREIGN RELATIONs) is the and should forever be in the Domain of the United Nations. Not another "NGO" in Washington's House!

The Election Is Coming, The Election is coming The E......

Readers:

I suggest that we do not respond or engage in the discussion about whoever's salary/etc. They are just distractions from the substance of the discussion, which is that the Coalition had a meeting with the Administration. Let's not lose sight of that. I see the postings on compensation/etc nothing more than "If you can't debate the message, attack the messenger." Let's not let it fester.

I recently wrote about this very topic in an artical titled: Analysis of the Secular Coalition of America White House Meeting -
http://bit.ly/95Bw3z
Please check it out. And if you are a member of the greater secular community, check on my current blog on the topic:
http://www.DangerousTalk.net/?p=877

IN "gods" WE TRUST"

Is Paying PEDOPHILE Reparation/Damages To It's Congregants/Customers/Victims, Doing Gods Work?

How much Insurance premiums, against Pedophilia or "Acts-Against-Humanity" and or Other Claims (Protections by Secularist Business, not religious) do the CHURCH's Pay in order to Expose themselves in the Public Domain, less Fringe?

No No No, ALL of Earths Currency's should read IN "IT" WE TRUST.

Thanks SECULARISTS, Thanks ATHEISTS and Thank All whom Believe and Worship HOPE. (Hope arose from History and "IT" made/makes our Future Possible; not my-god.).

Note: CHURCH business should die; but not "IT", a replacement for gods mentality. Imagine the Possibilities and the REVEALations when the world goes Apocalyptic. (Forwards is "IT"s Law/Command not backwards via My gods Tautology).

Large USA tax exempt/non-profit groups

ACLU
The Democratic Party
The Republican Party
Advocacy Groups for Human Rights and Civil Liberties
Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Amnesty International
Anti-Defamation League
Association on American Indian Affairs
B'nai B'rith International
Children's Defense Fund
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
The Carter Center
Center for Constitutional Rights
Committee for Missing Children
Doctors of the World
Human Rights Watch
NAACP
Catholic Charities
Catholic Relief Services
Christian Appalachia Project
Christian Relief Services
Coalition for the Homeless
Lutheran World Relief
Feeding the Hungry

Check their IRS Form 990 to see what kind of salaries they pay. Some of these groups may be exempt from filing which is not what we need in a free country where non-profit group's transactions should be published and transparent.

The events that Herb Silverman referred to were just terrific. Many, many people worked very hard to bring about this quintessentially American event: citizens seeking redress from our government and equal access to be able to affect public policy. Silverman himself prepared for this event for literally decades and would richly deserve a salary if he got one (he doesn't). Those of us who do get salaries get them from our members, not from taxpayers--and they are modest at best. It amazes me that anyone, from Sean Hannity to Pat Robertson, actually believes that American citizenship and rights should be the exclusive domain of people who accept the ideas of Iron Age goatherds as superior, ethically or otherwise. American Atheists is proud to have been a part of this event and to support the Secualr Coalition for America. Regards to all, Ed Buckner, President, American Atheists.

Salaries for the Secular Coalition of America as listed on their 2008 IRS Form 990 as $150,695 but the only specific salary noted is for Ron Miller, acting director, who is paid $43,925. So where does the other $106,770 go?

Then there is the Selcular Coalition’s Education Fund started in 2008. What salaries and perks are paid from this fund?

Again, what is this group doing that the ACLU is not doing?

Mr. Silverman' salary - or lack of one - is really beside the point. If those who are arguing salary are trying to say that he sees this as simply a "cash cow" and is not really interested in the goals of his group, that is another matter, and one to be proven. Otherwise, unless they are members of the organization who have a vested interest, their complaints concerning salary should be dismissed - perhaps regarded as "sour grapes?"

I would regard myself as a "Christian Secularist," in regard to politics. I believe that the tying together of church and state is harmful to both. The only problem I would have with the position of Mr. Silverman's group is in regard to proselytizing - freedom of religion and freedom of speech should be respected, regardless of the situation. These are precious freedoms. It is the willingness to share our thinking that makes us strong. The sharing of one's religious or non-religious beliefs serves to either strengthen o challenge one's beliefs, leading to a deeper and more satisfying life. Coercion is another matter,as would proselytising by one's commanders.

As regards faith-based organizations, their social service branches should not use federal funds for proselytizing (nor should they, as an ethical matter, connect their social work with proselytzing - most respected chuch-based organizations are careful in this regard).

Herb Silverman has done nothing to deserve the diatribe exhibited in some of the responses to his account of his visit to
washington, but I am sure he has faced it many times before.

What Silverman, the Secular Coalition and I want most is to be spared having our government (in whatever form) to favor religion over non-religion or to give the appearance of such. We want this because we have looked at history and seen what happens to religious minorities when religious majorities get the power and begin to impose their theocracy. We strive to preserve the separation of church and state, that is all. We do not wish to deny their religion to anyone.

YEAL9:
From info and Belief, your old moniker was "Christian Concerned Now Liberated" NO?

And Please since you are so good at yahooooooing or gooooooggggling or jackhammering for 'Financial Info", as if be Dirt; then please dig-up and name names Of All those "Catholic" Christian Pedophiles, plus their victims, who received "Tax-Deductible Tithes-Income" from the Masses directly or indirectly and show some meaningful info on what the Pedophile Priests income was.

YEAL9, if you can help me; please be a Blog-Friend not a Blog-ganster or Blog-Bully and let us know How-Much money ALL the Moderators have claimed; both as Non-Prophet and Non-Profits. Ooops for Self and or Enrichment Purposes.

PS: You still did not show us how much money each and everyone or some them major players embedded within Obama's Faith-Based Community hokus-pokus, willy-nilly, Pow-Wowilly front or ripoff Council are making off Us blindsided unsuspecting [SECULAR] Tax-Payers..

Maybe the Mr. SECULARwitz and Mr. ATHEISTvitz should stop paying Uncle/Aunt-Mc-SAM their hard earned money, and let the Non-Atheists and Non Secularist do the Burden, not honor, to pay back gods-tithes via smiling forked-tongued actors with self-dealing [HIDDEN/SECRET] budgets, includes Political disguised godly War Chests, whom roam and toll, while brownnosing or rubbing each other in OUR Holy-Capital, not exclusively their Gods Dominion or Turf, in holy or non-holy attire with SATANic smiles and intentions, aye?

In America, No CHURCH should be a Tax-Exempt" CORPORATION. Churches are not "Gods Chosen" entity's! That's wishful thinking. Even the "Robber Baron's are crying all the way to the bank while CHURCH's are Laughing. Aye?

Much speculation here about salaries and government grants. First, Mr. Silverman receives no salary from the Secular Coalition for America. He is a board officer, not a staff member. He pays to serve - meaning that he covers all of his own expenses to board meetings and events such as the White House visit. He is one of several individuals who have made personal sacrifices to promote cooperation within the secular community. Since 2005 the Coalition has assembled a small staff receiving typical non-profit (below market) salaries to do administrative and other work. Maintaining this infrastructure is a constant financial challenge; the Coalition receives no funding through the Faith-Based Initiative or any other government program. It is supported entirely by donations from supporters and its member organizations - that is, the community it serves. Unlike gifts to churches, those donations do not qualify for a tax deduction, thus placing no burden on the U.S. taxpayer to make up lost revenues.

It is precisely that last point that ties into the Coalition's concern about government funding of faith groups. Religious ministries that benefit from government grants to provide (sometimes dubious) social services qualify for those grants only because they are religious; that is, they are singled out by the government to receive a special privilege not afforded to secular non-profits - even secular non-profits specializing in the social services being funded. There is little or no government oversight to ensure the quality of these programs, and some recipient organizations openly practice religious discrimination in hiring and service provision. Yet the American taxpayer is billed to support these faith groups chosen not by each individual citizen according to her/his beliefs and preferences, but by government agencies. The Coalition opposes this practice not only on behalf of secular Americans, but because it is a threat to religious liberty for ALL Americans, regardless of worldview.

I am encouraged by the White House allowing the meeting with the Secular Coalition. Maybe there is hope for those of us who yearn for separation of church and state. Separation of church and state is necessary if we are to be truly free. Thank you Dr. Silverman. Whatever your salary is, it is worth it to have such a courageous and articulate leader of this progressive and long overdue movement.

Herb Silverman makes not one penny in salary or any other type of compensation for serving as President of the Secular Coalition for America.
Neither do the members of the Board of Directors of the Secular Coalition for serving in that role. Some members of that board, but not Herb Silverman, lead national organizations. Those individuals are paid by their employers -- not by Secular Coalition for America. I can attest that Herb Silverman does huge amounts of work as a positive voice for secularism -- but we pay him zero dollars to do so. Sean Faircloth, Executive Director, Secular Coalition for America

Herb Silverman says:
"The Secular Coalition for America includes 10 national nontheistic member organizations, and its mission has two goals: to increase the visibility of, and respect for, nontheistic viewpoints in the United States; and to protect and strengthen the secular character of our government as the best guarantee of freedom for all."

As for the first goal, the atheists-er- "nontheists" gained visibility but probably not much respect as a result of stunts like this attacking Christmas:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,450445,00.html

As for the second goal, the secular character of our government is well protected through our founding documents.

Activist atheists seem perpetually disturbed by *any* hint of religious expression within their view.

Sometimes they remind of the stereotypical old man shaking his fist and yelling "you kids get off my lawn!"

Bill Donohue calling others "zealots" while stating victims of sexual abuse are Protestant gold-diggers, and telling us why fondling children is not a big deal.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&viewas=0&gid=8481526295

Why Herb Silverman writes so much? More donations,the higher his salary? ( Maybe the ACLU does a better job of keeping the USA secular?)

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Let's hope those mentioned by Yeal9 (CCNl) use what they earn in ways more constructive than Fr. McGrath, who, btw., was convicted. After this, perhaps, we can return to the topic.
---------------------------
Wealthy priest ‘gave thousands to paedophile to help him groom girl’

An Irish priest lavished thousands of pounds on a predatory paedophile to allow him to groom an 11-year-old girl for sex, Liverpool Crown Court was told yesterday.

Father Jeremiah McGrath, 62, of Roselea, Co Fermanagh, was a Roman Catholic priest, but a lucrative shares portfolio gave him independent means. He was also a successful gambler and had befriended William Adams, 38, a convicted paedophile, while he was in his teens. The priest visited him in prison in Ireland while he served a 12-year sentence for raping an eight-year-old girl.

On his release Adams went to Liverpool, where he used the priest’s money to target a child and buy her gifts. They included a three-week holiday in Blackpool, during which he posed as her father, shared a bedroom with her and repeatedly raped her.

Andrew Menary, QC, for the prosecution, suggested to the jury that the relationship between the priest and paedophile was a physical one. It is alleged that Father McGrath not only knew the nature of Adam’s abusive relationship with the child but abused her himself on one occasion.

Mr Menary told the jury: “Adams worked his way into this girl’s affections. He gave her time, attention and gifts. He gave her money and holidays, all things this little girl had never experienced. He bought her mobile telephones, paid for hairstyling, let her bunk off school and generally encouraged her to believe he was her friend and that he loved her.

“It appears at this stage that Adams was unemployed, and documents found in his flat showed he had applied for state benefits. You may be wondering where the money came from to finance these gifts and trips. We allege that most, if not all the money, came from Jeremiah McGrath. Although he was a priest, he is a man with substantial means. It also seems Father McGrath is a heavy but successful gambler.”

Mr Menary said that Father McGrath regularly sent significant sums of money to Adams, enabling him to provide these treats for the girl and her family when he knew that he must have been sexually abusing the child. Mr Menary said: “It seems Jeremiah McGrath would indulge all of William Adams’s desires, including funding his interest in young girls in order to keep Adams happy.”

Father McGrath denies three counts of facilitating the commission of a child sex offence of one of sexual assault. Adams, latterly of Bootle, Merseyside, has admitted raping the child.

Continued:

The jury was told that a total of £23,500 was paid by Father McGrath into accounts to which Adams had access. Mr Menary told the court that Adams continued to rape the girl after they returned from Blackpool to Merseyside. He would regularly visit Father McGrath in Co Fermanagh.

When Father McGrath visited Adams, they were said to have “spent money like it was going out of fashion” at a rate of £1,000 a day. The bulk of the gifts and attention went on the girl, Mr Menary said.

The charge of sexual assault relates to an occasion in November 2005, when Father McGrath is alleged to have touched the child while in a car. Mr Menary also claimed that Father McGrath supported Adams in his use of false names and in playing down his conviction when the child’s family grew suspicious.

Father McGrath showed no obvious reaction when Mr Menary claimed that there was evidence of a sexual relationship between the two men. In police interviews, McGrath denied any impropriety in relation to the girl but accepted that there were elements of his relationship with Adams of which the Catholic Church would not approve.

The jury later watched a lengthy recorded interview in which the girl described how Adams regularly abused her.

The trial continues.

Eboo Patel pays himself ~ $100,000/yr from his "non-profit" and has over $2 million in investments held by his "non-profit" Interfaith Youth Core. Non-profits do not pay taxes on dividends, interest or capital gains.

Maybe David Waters will tell us how much he makes?

David Saperstein the rabbi or the billionaire?

One wonders if Eboo Patel and Herb Silverman get Faith and Community Intiative grant money from the USA taxpayers?

FarnazMansouri:

Excellent point! Secularists are not necessarily atheists! Reactionary religious leaders conflate the terms regularly as a way to keep any members -- who are reluctant to tear down the wall -- on the reservation. "Oh, you're not one them secularists are you?"

Herb,

Thanks for the info. and all of your good work.

One concern: There are many, many believers who are strict separationists: believing that lobbying by religious institutions violates our commitment to separation of church and state, want an end to nonprofit status for religious institutions, the abolition of conscience clauses, etc.

It would be conducive to your efforts (and mine) to distinguish secularism from belief.

All of the previous comments suggest that their writers were in a very bad mood. Otherwise, how can you account for the crabbiness, fiduciary envy, and sour grapes. None of the comments had anything to do with the substance of the meeting and the issues brought up. As a lawyer might say, the comments were immaterial and irrelevant.

Thankfully, someone speaking up against those who want to run our country with their imaginary friends.

crrection

or [EXPOSES] those trying to hijack or infiltrate our Federal System of Government in order to teach Religion in our Public Schools, etc...

OH. Forgot. "SECULAR"anity in America is a Recognized , full blown Religion, with lots of Federally Protect Perks. Profits and for Prophets too.

YEAL9:
So Herb's for Profit instead of Prophet.! You should post what Dubois or Eboo Patel Makes or David Saperstein or David Waters etc..

Mr. Herb Silverman is Under Paid, and yes, Over Worked (probably because He's under staffed). He should go into the 200+K bracket. And He does write to Us a lot, here and elsewhere on the cheap, or rather, sort of, on the free. WE learned alot from Him [GURU].

So, he represents "Catholic Basher's" and other questionable Illuminati's or those trying to hijack or infiltrate our Federal System of Government in order to teach Religion in our Public Schools, etc... So like a Police-Man, Oopps, Press-Man, What is wrong with bashing IRISH Pedophile Priests/Fathers? Are You Irish.

Reminder genius: All Atheists have Religion; IT's called HOPE. This is the Cognizance mindfulness that propels all of Us into the Future, you to YEAL9, or makes such worth experiencing for. And this HOPE Atheist religion is about worshiping the Past, a/k/a HISTORY where , likes the BIG BANG or BIG FLASH etc.. is everyone's Judge, jury and Witness and everybody's Business.

So, YEAL9, WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET? you got's Religion, weather yo all like IT or not; and it's called "HOPE" just like Ms Jacoby, Herb, me etc.. do. Something to contemplate on and or anticipate about. Now that's Prophetic's aye?

PS: Herb loves IT and he'll admit IT!

Secular Coalition of America- Mission Statement from their IRS Form 990

"The mission of the Secular Coalition of America is to increase the visibility and respectability of nontheistic viewpoints in the United States, and to protect and strengthen the secular character of our government as the best guarantee of freedom for all."

Mr. Silverman is listed as the president of this non-profit. He does not list his salary which is strange. Salaries and compensation from Form 990 for 2008 are listed as $150,695. One director’s salary is listed at $43,925 so one assumes Mr. Silverman’s salary per year is about $106,000/year. Not a bad salary for a non-profit!!!

Contributions, gifts and grants of the SCOA for 2008 amounted to $310,034. It is assumed that no Faith and Community Initiative grant money was part of the $310,034 or was it?

Mr. Silverman also has established an education fund but no financials are available.