Heaven on Earth

One can be sympathetic with people who are atheists because they have not found the common ideas about religion, such as the afterlife, to be attractive or fair.

The beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("the Mormons") are distinct in asserting that there are two stages to the afterlife. Those who believe in the Resurrection know that it has not yuet happened for the majority of mankind. Thus, there is an interval between death and the resurrection, when all the spirits of men and women await that event. Those who have committed intentional, serious evil are forced to confront what they did and suffer from unavoidable compassion and sympathy for their victims. Those who have sought to do good works, to be honorable and fair, will be alive in a society where they can mingle with pwople from all ages and parts of the earth. The Latter-day Saints believe that Peter taught in his First Epistle that the dead will have an opportunity to hear the Gospel and accept or reject its message, so they can be judged fairly alongside those who did hear the Gospel in life. No Buddhist or Muslim or Jew who lived before Christ will be denied the opportunity to accept him as Savior. The Resurrection will be graduated according to the choices made by people in their mortal life and their pre-Resurrection spiritual life. Those who have sought to follow Christ will receive the great reward of becoming joint heirs with Christ, of becoming like Christ, and thus like God, the doctrine of Theosis that is preserved in the Orthodox churches from the earliest days of Christianity. as Paul notes in I Corinthians 15, the final state of people in the Resurrection will vary according to their faithful actions. Eventually even those who had chosen evil will be resurrected, their (self-imposed) suffering ended, and given the capacity for an eternity of positive experiences within God's grand plan for the universe. God's program is complete and precisely just and fair, based on the infinite capacity of God to know each of our states of knowledge and our intent. An atheist who acted with good intent through his or her life can expect to be teated fairly, not punished for ignorance about God and the inability to embrace faith in teachings about God that are flawed. Besides, once they pass through death and find themselves in a society of spirits awaiting the Resurrection, their reasons for doubting the existence of God will have been largely removed.

More about Mr. Robertson's "gazillions":

"Funding for domestic and international ministries is provided through donations ($90-$100 million annually) and by the income gained in the 1997 sale of Robertson’s publicly-traded International Family Entertainment (IFE) to media baron Rupert Murdoch. "

This sale brought Robertson more than $400 million net; $148 million to Regent University, $136 million to CBN, $109 million to the Robertson Charitable Trust – which pays out to CBN in 2010 or upon the death of Robertson or his wife Dede, whichever comes later.

Robertson himself banked $19 million. IFE is now the ABC Family Channel, which per the terms of the sale, continues to broadcast The 700 Club each day. The majority of CBN’s income is spent producing and syndicating its U.S. television programming ($90 million per year).

International outreach expense was $34 million in 2004, while approximately $11 million (total) was spent on counseling and prayer ministry, distribution of religious materials, and education and training. Operation Blessing is largely supported by gifts-in-kind (valuing $181 million in 2004), although operational expenses do total between $7 and $8 million annually."

ref: www.ministrywatch.com/.../christian-broadcasting-network.aspx

Those who say there is no afterlife, say it with such certainty. Would that not be something like me declaring definitively that, because I have not been there, there is no Mecca? Could that kind of knowledge be called willful ignorance?

As for me, that I am cognizant with the ability to dwell upon something like an afterlife, is compelling reason to think (or hope at least) that there might really be such a thing. Else, what a cruel joke life would be.

Posted by: mwpalmer | March 23, 2010 6:26 PM

=====
Hate to say it, but there is no Santa Claus.

Atheist Heaven for Professor Silverman: His $106,000/yr salary at his "non-profit", The Secular Coalition of America.

ref: guidestar.org

Posted by: YEAL9 | March 25, 2010 3:36 PM

====
That's pretty modest compared to the gazillions that Pat Robertson and other so called Christians pay themselves.

Off topic but since the subject continues to be mentioned:

I doubt the Catholic Church survives much longer considering the constant barrage of sexual abuse cases around the globe and the obvious flaws and errors in the theology and history of Catholicism and Christianity in general.

A thorough review of the abuse situation has been posted at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases .

It is suggested everyone reads this review to see at least what the USA Catholic Church has or is doing about the situation.

An excerpt:

"In a statement, read out by Archbishop Silvano Maria Tomasi in September 2009, the Holy See stated "We know now that in the last 50 years somewhere between 1.5% and 5% of the Catholic clergy has been involved in sexual abuse cases," adding that this figure was comparable with that of other groups and denominations."

"The onset of pedophilia usually occurs during adolescence. Occasional pedophiles begin their activities during middle age but this late onset is uncommon. In the United States, about 50% of men arrested for pedophilia are married. "

http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html#ixzz0iQulgGTp

"A survey was administered to 193 male undergraduate students regarding their sexual interest in children, as well as their responses to a number of questions theoretically relevant to pedophilia. In total, 21 % of subjects reported sexual attraction to some small children, 9% described sexual fantasies involving children, 5% admitted to having masturbated to such fantasies, and 7% indicated some likelihood of having sex with a child if they could avoid detection and punishment. These sexual interests were associated with negative early sexual experiences, masturbation to pornography, self-reported likelihood of raping a woman, frequent sex partners, sexual conflicts, and attitudes supportive of sexual dominance over women. The data did not, however, support clinical theories regarding sexual repression or impulse-control problems among potential pedophiles."

And this from Wikipedia:

“Due to the stereotype that pedophiles are always male, it has been difficult to determine the prevalence of female pedophiles; however, studies in the UK and USA suggest that a range of 5% to 20% of child sexual abuse offenses are perpetrated by women.[20]”

YOU ARE INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN A NEW BLOG…

…that tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism….

Just posted:

CONCEPTS + LOGIC = KNOWLEDGE, by Blacksun
MAN AND REASON, by Randall Duncan
RATZINGER’S VATICAN: SEX, LIES AND SECRETS, by Emily Helm.
THE NEW BUDDHIST ATHEISM, by Mark Vernon

http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

“The only way to cure the cancer of Catholicism, and stop the pedophilia, is to begin each ceremony of ordination to the deaconate with castration.”

YOU ARE INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN A NEW BLOG…

…that tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism….

Just posted:

CONCEPTS + LOGIC = KNOWLEDGE, by Blacksun
MAN AND REASON, by Randall Duncan
RATZINGER’S VATICAN: SEX, LIES AND SECRETS, by Emily Helm.
THE NEW BUDDHIST ATHEISM, by Mark Vernon

http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

“The only way to cure the cancer of Catholicism, and stop the pedophilia, is to begin each ceremony of ordination to the deaconate with castration.”

Weal9 -

Actually, neither Dr. Silverman nor any member of the Secular Coalition for America's board of directors receives a salary from the organization. Your figure is wholly incorrect. And yes, the SCA is, in fact, not-for-profit.

- Paul Fidalgo, Secular Coalition for America communications manager

Posted by: qshio
-------------------
Thank you for your post. In fact, this blogger was kicked off OnFaith and signed up again using a new moniker.

He has romped about from thread to thread posting different panelists' salaries and appears to be incorrect on all of them.

Frankly, everyone ignores him so it doesn't much matter.

He appears to be a paid agent of the Roman Catholic Church.

Weal9 -

Actually, neither Dr. Silverman nor any member of the Secular Coalition for America's board of directors receives a salary from the organization. Your figure is wholly incorrect. And yes, the SCA is, in fact, not-for-profit.

- Paul Fidalgo, Secular Coalition for America communications manager

Schaum, I thought you might be interested in this published letter by David Brin:

http://www.davidbrin.com/addiction.htm

The sanctimony, the self-righteousness of the standard believer, in religion or politics or whatever ... a self-doping dopamine addiction. Imagine that.

AN OPEN INVITATION:

A new blog tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism….

http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

Criticism of the belief in Heaven

"Atheists reject the existence of heaven. Some atheists have viewed the notion of heaven as an "opiate of the masses"—tool employed by humans to cope with their lives' misery—or "opiate for the masses"—a tool employed by authorities to bribe their subjects into a certain way of life by promising a reward after death.[32]

The anarchist Emma Goldman expressed this view when she wrote, "Consciously or unconsciously, most atheists see in gods and devils, heaven and hell; reward and punishment, a whip to lash the people into obedience, meekness and contentment."[33]

Many people consider George Orwell's use of Sugarcandy Mountain in his novel Animal Farm to be a literary expression of this view. In the book, the animals were told that after their miserable lives were over they would go to a place in which "it was Sunday seven days a week, clover was in season all the year round, and lump sugar and linseed cake grew on the hedges".[34][35] Fantasy author Phillip Pullman echoes this idea in the fantasy series His Dark Materials, in which the characters finally come to the conclusion that people should make life better on Earth rather than wait for heaven (this idea is known as the Republic of Heaven).

Some atheists have argued that a belief in a reward after death is poor motivation for moral behavior while alive.[36][37] Sam Harris wrote, "It is rather more noble to help people purely out of concern for their suffering than it is to help them because you think the Creator of the Universe wants you to do it, or will reward you for doing it, or will punish you for not doing it. [The] problem with this linkage between religion and morality is that it gives people bad reasons to help other human beings when good reasons are available."[38]

ref: Wikipedia

Atheist Heaven for Professor Silverman: His $106,000/yr salary at his "non-profit", The Secular Coalition of America.

ref: guidestar.org

When I finally realized that there was no heaven, I grieved for knowing I would never be able to see my parents again, who have been dead now for many years. It was painful, and possibly harder than losing them when they actually died. Once I moved beyond that loss, however, my life became fuller and richer with every moment, and I regained a sense of "rightness" about cherishing every waking moment of every day, regardless of the pain.

Each day is a gift, with the possibility of reward after reward, even in pain and suffering. Certainly morality has nothing to do with religious belief.

Dr. Silverman is right when he refers to some of the greatest atrocities to humanity having been committed in the name of religious fervor. Hatred and acts of violence committed in the name of religion have nothing to do with my idea of heaven, while some of my moments spent with my secular friends have been "heaven on earth."

Few writers had more to say about Heaven than Mark Twain and none said it better. Here are three examples of many:

“Go to Heaven for the climate. Go to Hell for the company.”

“...the human being, like the immortals, naturally places sexual intercourse far and away above all other joys--yet he has left it out of his heaven! The very thought of it excites him; opportunity sets him wild; in this state he will risk life, reputation, everything--even his queer heaven itself--to make good that opportunity and ride it to the overwhelming climax. From youth to middle age all men and all women prize copulation above all other pleasures combined, yet it actually as I have said: it is not in their heaven; prayer takes its place.”

"Heaven goes by favour. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in."

God: Well, hello there! I understand you were an atheist. Is that correct?

Atheist: Yup.

God: Why didn't you believe I existed?

Atheist: Uh... well... First, I never saw anything that couldn't be explained by routine natural phenomenon. Second, the whole idea of you just didn't pass the smell test. Third, the world seemed a very miserable place for so many, so much of the time, I couldn't see how a god could have created such an unholy mess.

God: Well... you were wrong weren't you?

Atheist: Yup. Are you going to crush me now for being wrong?

God: No. I gave you brains and you used them. You, my child, are one of my success stories. Would you like tasty snack or a cocktail?

MARYELLENSIKES

As a student of the wondrous sciences, warmly surrounded by good neighbors and sharing a lifelong union with a loving wife, I fail to see how a life devoted to loving God and all people in any way diminishes my present experience. I see, hear, ponder, marvel, hurt, rejoice, laugh, cry, and feel about the same as anyone else. Perhaps my faith even has an enhancing effect. For the comfort, meaning and peace it brings on the occasions when life is not so nice or is especially hard.

The belief that life becomes a "cruel joke" without an afterlife is, to me, the saddest legacy of religion. It encourages the faithful to lack appreciate for the wonder and magnificence of the universe, the specialness of everyday moments, and the gift of real-world relationships.

@CASSIE123

We do know what the "afterlife" will be like, the same as the "prelife". did you enjoy yours?

Just because we are sentient, thinking animals and can comprehend death and can therefore fear it does not mean that we can overcome it with an invented afterlife. This article should have started and finished after the first two sentences.

@GUZIEMOMMY

Why doesn't a theist embrace death with every thought, word and deed? After all, they are so in love with this idea that they're going to a heaven where they'll spend eternity worshipping their god, they should all be hurrying to get there a.s.a.p.
An atheist recognises that this is the only life we have so we give meaning to it everyday, embracing this life with all that it has to offer and not wasting our time hoping for something, anything, that might come after this life.

Those who say there is no afterlife, say it with such certainty. Would that not be something like me declaring definitively that, because I have not been there, there is no Mecca? Could that kind of knowledge be called willful ignorance?

As for me, that I am cognizant with the ability to dwell upon something like an afterlife, is compelling reason to think (or hope at least) that there might really be such a thing. Else, what a cruel joke life would be.

As an atheist, I am often told by god-believers that their particular view of their particular religion is the only path to Heaven.

Modern mainstream Judeo-Christian culture tells us that Heaven is an eternal paradise. This is opposed to “the other place” which is described as a place of eternal torture. But aren’t both places really eternal torture when you think about it.

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m3d23-On-Faith-What-is-heaven-like

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.

"Here on earth, God's perfect and protective hand is present,..."

Where exactly is his hand?

Is it kind of like that there Allstate Insurance hand?

Do I have to buy the insurance to get the hand?

Cassie, the two issues that rub me wrong about the idea of Heaven are 1)People who tell me I'm not going and they are, and 2)the sheer contradictory nature of it. Are people on a scale of intelligence in Heaven? How could that be Heavenly for the dumb people? Is everyone the same height? What about people with real height issues on Earth? Then what about jockeys? Do Down Syndrome victims look the same in Heaven? If so, how is that Heavenly? If not, how do their family members recognize them? It is absolutely endless. Either we are all reduced to equal non-identity in Heaven...or more likely, there is no Heaven at all.

CASSIE123, the god of your bible is a childish bully, jealous, petty, and vicious. Why would being away from this character be hellish?

Just think about it for a minute. When you die, you're dead. You don't exist any longer. You aren't going to be there whining about being dead. You weren't whining about not being born yet before you were born, were you?

Dying sucks, being dead means your troubles are over.

Really, this heaven of yours, this god of yours, I would rather take my chances with zeus - at least I could maybe buy him a beer and tell him a few jokes, maybe he'd keep me around for a while. I heard Athena gives good head.

This was a interesting article -- typical athiest thoughts I would think (correct me if I am wrong - I don't mean to generalize). I must say though, that I think it is unfair to fault someone for not knowing what heaven will be like. Of course they do not know. They haven't been there yet. Those who do not believe in the afterlife do not know what it will be like after they die or what it will not be like. We are all (non-religious and religious) in the same boat in that we can't explain the afterlife. However, there are hints here and there about the afterlife from religious texts.

I, as a Bible believing Christian, have no idea how to really describe heaven. The Bible itself seems hushed about it except for a few mentionings. From what I gather, heaven is being in the presence of God. The Bible does make is clear that there is no sin or pain or tears in heaven. There are "rewards" in heaven (which are obtained here on earth). However, we would do well to remember that our materialistic idea of "rewards" and God's idea of "rewards" doesn't usually match. So I am not sure what that means.

Personally, my thoughts are that heaven is another dimension or a far away world where one goes in spirit. You may have what is similar to our bodies here on earth or not. Either way, we will be worshiping God and we will want to worship God. In some way, our good works here on earth are rewarded.

Hell is the opposite. Hell is without the presence of God. Fire and burning? Well, perhaps, but that may just be a metaphor for what it will feel like without the presence of God. Here on earth, God's perfect and protective hand is present, in hell, people will not even have that. What a horrible place!

Some years ago when a dog fighting ring was broken up and some dogs euthanized the police chief in charge commented “They’re in a better place.” Huh? This caused me to wonder. Is there a separate doggy heaven or are they mixed in with the former-humans? If separate, what about cats? Horses? Birds? Bugs? The answer, of course, is only humans have souls. But perhaps that police chief knows something I don’t, he knows dogs have souls. Since I have never seen a soul or touched a soul or know anyone who has, the next time I see someone walking his dog, I’m going to believe that there are either two souls there or none. I see no reason why we humans should have a monopoly on souls and the promise of heaven any more than a doggy or the animals at your local zoo.

Some observations:

Heaven(if it exists) is a Spirit State as per Aquinas and JPII i.e. no bodies to include glorified bodies allowed. That sure puts the kibosh on Easter!!

The simple preacher man's spirit/soul resides in Heaven (if it exists) with all the souls of deceased good people of any religion or of no religion therefore there will be no second coming.

As per Somerville, “Religion is our vehicle for the journey. Once arrived, it will be left at the door” i.e. there is no religion in Heaven (if it exists).

The Holy Roman "Empirers"/Popes/Kings/Queens et al continued the money grab selling access to JC and heaven resulting in some of today's
richest organizations on the globe i.e. the Christian churches and related aristocracies

From Professor JD Crossan:

"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

Islam's reliance on heavenly angels and "demons of the demented" for authenication is coming to a fast close. As it does, Mecca will no longer be a shrine to these fictional characters and will simply become a historical tourist attraction. Maybe Disney will construct another Disney World there featuring roller coaster-chariot rides to the fictional heavens, a water park at the Grand Mosque along with a Hall of Religious Embellished Characters featuring talking figures of Abraham, Jesus and Mohammed and his eleven wives.

Mommy, I had similar feelings when I was ~12yoa. When you realize that your lifetime and the world around you are all you get, and then you're gone, it maybe a little heavy, because we'd all like to live joyously for all eternity (actually it might get boring). On the other hand, you can find it quite invigorating and empowering. TODAY is the only day that matters. This ONE LIFE you have is the ONLY one you need to focus on. Therefore, seize the day, make every day count, and a bunch of other cliches. When it's done, you won't be sad or experience loss or have regrets; you won't even exist. You're right that you could die at any moment, but worrying about the inevitable and unavoidable is no life at all. Get on with yours!

Idunno if I really like this post or find it really boring. I think I like it because I, like most people, see wisdom in the words of someone who tells me what I think already. I find it boring because this and every imaginable comment regarding it has been stated a billion times. I do like the line, "I believe life after death is identical to life before conception." And, I think Barfer raises an interesting point when he says "The heaven I hear about from today's christians sounds remarkably like [that of] the iron age barbarians who invented it." I mean how dense do you have to be to not recognize the heaven and hell of our imaginations as the direct unbastardized descendants of the celestial ether and Hephaestian underworld conceived millenia ago before the invention of the wheel? Recognizing that heaven and hell are purely imaginary and born out of a vast ignorance of the workings of the physical universe should inform our way viewing our reality(ies). And, Xians(etc.) oughta consider the implications of their adoption of these Pagan/heathen concepts as fundamental elements of their theology. Of course, I expect too much.

For example: How bad was it for you before you were born?

"if this is all there is, then when someone dies, that makes it REALLY unbearable!"

It's really not all that bad.

You'd be surprised.

my big question is (i am someone searching for "The Truth", and with no real background of ANY religion or spirituality): how in the heck does an athiest not fear sickness/death with every move they make, if there is nothing to believe in after life? what IS an athiest's opinion as to what happens to us (our soul? our spirit?) after death? if this is all there is, then when someone dies, that makes it REALLY unbearable! I am just wondering, because i have lived in fear of sickness/death almost every single day of my life, precisely because i have no belief right now in anything definitively.

Will everybody in heaven have a fat bandwidth? Will all the toilet paper be soft, will everybody get plasma tv, infinite mileage in their suv? Will sex be as nice? Can we run all day without getting a stitch in our side? Will everybody you talk to always wait until you've finished making your point?

The heaven I hear about from today's christians sounds remarkably like the heaven as described by the iron age barbarians who invented it. Why would anybody who can think for themselves want to go to such an awful place?

How is it that these christians are offering this so-called paradise as the carrot in their story ... what makes them want to be there? I suppose you have to have a certain amount of intelligence to feel really bored ... maybe this is sufficient explanation.

I agree with Dan46. I know many people I would not want to spend eternity with. That would be hell in heaven. And which husband would I be with? My father (who didn't attend church) died suddenly when I was thirteen, and I remember the women in my family searching the bible to reassure my mother (who did attend church) that he would go to heaven so she could live with the hope of one day being reunited with him. As for me, I believe heaven and hell are right here on earth.

Based on the people from the religious right who most loudly proclaim that they are going to heaven, I don't think I'd want to go there even if it did exist. I can't imagine spending eternity with Jerry Falwell and Par Robertson.