Hate your neighbor, but don't forget to say grace

To all current Muslims and Muslims yet born:

The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

Are you ready?

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

The First Five of the 77 Branches:

"1. Belief in Allah"

aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

It almost seems as though atheists who believe in no gods also try their hardest to assume that the beliefs of religious people are somehow just to be ignored and overlooked in understanding the ultimate decisions those people make. At the very least, genuinely understanding the relationship between spiritual beliefs and moral decision-making would seem most scientific an endeavor. For example, what is the relationship of a religion called "submission" (arabic Muslim) to anger we see in Muslim nations. Or, What is the relationship between the Christian west and the rise of "secularism" or "liberal democracies" or a robust "atheism"? What about Buddhism/Confucianism producing the extreme Empire worship of Oriental cultures? What about the caste system and Hindu/Buddhist teachings? What about Aztec gods or the Caananite Molech producing human sacrifice. These questions are at least as relevant as questions about how oppression, injustice, poverty and racism drive culture changes. What was it about the Roman Pantheon that drove the great Iron Beast? Anything that stops us from asking such questions (tolerance or what have you) stops us from being more informed about how people act.

I have often wondered why modern sociologists don't take more time to relate what people believe about their gods to how people act. This area of study is decidedly absent. Even if a scientist does NOT believe in the spiritual, he would still be wise to appreciate that people's spiritual convictions drive and influence people's actions directly. That's just basic psychology. Poverty and alienation can affect people, according to our more marxist leaning friends. Why would their beliefs about spiritual things not also drive their actions.

Just a comment,

Christians have NO problem with the existence of other gods. The Bible argues that there are many gods. In fact, Christianity teaches that there is a spiritual battle going on in the heavens. So, yes, the claims made by other cultures about their gods are taken very seriously by Christians. Not least because the claims people make about their gods gives tremendous insight into why they do things that they do, especially things that might be culturally very different from ours.

JonSwitzer wrote:

"Religion may be bunk, but 90% of the world is religious (believes in God). That means atheists are, at best, only 10% and actually that number includes people who are not religious but still believe in God. Apparently, 90% of the world sees evidence you think is not relevant."

What happened with your rational thinking?

The evidences for Zeus, Brahama, Huitzilopochtli, Osiris, Krishna, Njord, Nut (yes, there is a nut goddess), Thor, Allah, Odin, Quetzalcoatl, Yahweh, Lord-Trinity, Lord-Jesus, Lord-Father/Son, Rama, Buddha, etc., are simultaneously relevant for you and for 90% of the world population?

Does greater percentages of believers in an evidence make that evidence a more true evidence?

Remember the flat earth that was believed by most Christians in the antiquity? Do you still believe that the earth is firmly attached to foundations and can't be moved (Psalm 104:5) and if you go high to a mountain you can see all the kingdoms?

I am genuinely very pleased that our secular friends will fight against Shariah law taking over here in the United States. Great! Unfortunately, the Muslims in Europe have large families and are on pace to be no longer a significant minority but actually move into a majority in places in Europe. Further, they are fighting for the "right" to have their own court system. So, these Muslim children are growing up with NO sense of being European, but only the sense that they are Muslim. They feel like outcasts as a result and feel little to NO loyalty to the "liberal democracy". So, let's fight to stop Shariah together. But let's not kid ourselves about a large portion of the Muslim community having NO intention of assimilating. The large majority haven't in Europe. The same is true here. Hmmm...do we know of any totalitarian leaders that were democratically elected to office in Europe...Germany...?

Islam gives women almost no rights and treats them like fodder for the male species as so bluntly noted by Ayaan Hirsi Ali in her autobiography, Infidel.

"Thus begins the extraordinary story of a woman born into a family of desert nomads, circumcised as a child, educated by radical imams in Kenya and Saudi Arabia, taught to believe that if she uncovered her hair, terrible tragedies would ensue. It's a story that, with a few different twists, really could have led to a wretched life and a lonely death, as her grandmother warned. But instead, Hi-rsi Ali escaped – and transformed herself into an internationally renowned spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women."

ref: Washington Post book review.

some excerpts:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly be-aten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their scre-ams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

"The Pakistanis were Muslims but they too had cas-tes. The Untou-chable girls, both Indian and Pakistani were darker skin. The others would not play with them because they were unt-ouchable. We thought that was funny because of course they were tou-chable: we to-uched them see? but also hor-rifying to think of yourself as un-touchable, des-picable to the human race."

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exa-ggerating."

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Som-alia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feu-dal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".

Here is what quran says about Jesus (peace be upon him) in the surah Maryam (Mary):

And mention in the Book (the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she secluded herself from her people to a place towards East,
[19:17] then she used a barrier to hide herself from them. Then, We sent to her Our Spirit, (Jibra‗il) and he took before her the form of a perfect human being.
[19:18] She said, .I seek refuge with the All-Merciful (Allah) against you, if you are God-fearing..
[19:19] He said, .I am but a message-bearer of your Lord (sent) to give you a boy, purified..
[19:20] She said, .How shall I have a boy while no human has ever touched me, nor have I ever been unchaste?.
[19:21] He said, .So it is; your Lord said, =It is easy for Me, and (We will do this) so that We make it a sign for people and a mercy from Us, and this is a matter already destined.‗.
[19:22] So she conceived him, and went in seclusion with him to a remote place.
[19:23] Then the labour pains brought her to the trunk of a palm-tree. She said .O that I would have died before this, and would have been something gone, forgotten..
[19:24] Then he called her from beneath her: .Do not grieve; your Lord has placed a stream beneath you.
[19:25] Shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards yourself and, it will drop upon you ripe fresh dates.
[19:26] So eat, drink and cool your eyes. Then if you see any human being, say (to him), .I have vowed a fast (of silence) for the All-Merciful (Allah,) and therefore, I shall never speak to any human today..
[19:27] Then she came to her people carrying him (the baby). They said, .O Maryam you have committed something grave indeed.
[19:28] O sister of Harun, neither your father was a man of evil nor was your mother unchaste..
[19:29] So, she pointed towards him (the baby). They said, .How shall we speak to someone who is still a child in the cradle?.
[19:30] Spoke he (the baby), .Verily I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and made me a prophet,
[19:31] and He has made me a blessed one wherever I be, and has enjoined Salah and Zakah upon me as long as I am alive,
[19:32] and (He has made me) good to my mother, and he did not make me oppressive (or) ill-fated.
[19:33] And peace is upon me the day I was born, the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised alive again..
[19:34] That is Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), to say the truth in which they (Christians) are disputing.
[19:35] It is not for Allah to have a son. Pure is He. When He decides a thing, He simply says to it, .Be. and it comes to be.
[19:36] And (O Prophet, say to the people,) .Allah is surely my Lord and your Lord. So, worship Him. This is the straight path..

"Hate your next-door neighbor, but don't forget to say grace"

I don't hate more than a small fraction of people (eg McVeigh, Saddam, Eichmann), but you know what I do hate:

I hate flying airliners into skyscrapers, killing thousands of people. Or blowing them up with explosives hidden in one's luggage, shoes or underwear.

I also hate blowing up trains in Spain, subways in London or Times Square. I hate shooting up airports or Army bases or Mumbai or the Indian parliament.

I hate executing adulterors, gays and apostates. Or killing nuns in riots over cartoons. And assassinating authors and filmmakers.

I hate shutting down schools for girls, or throwing acid on their students, or driving them back into a burning one for removing their headwear. Or marrying them at nine or selling them as wives at eight to settle a family debt. I hate female genital mutilation.

Ok, I'm a hater.

I hate Islam, and sincerely hope someday to release its adherents from their imprisoning philosophical system.

Last time I checked there was a system of checks and balances in the USA to counter the "Huckabees". And the last time I checked there were six Catholics and three followers of Judaism on the Supreme Court and a luke-warm Christian fellow in the White House.

And also the last time I checked, said luke-warm Christian was the leader of the Immoral Majority, the fastest growing USA voting bloc: The 70+ million "Roe vs. Wade mothers and fathers" of aborted womb-babies" whose ranks grow by two million per year.)

i.e. said Immoral Majority now rules the land and will do so in the foreseeable future. Popular vote in 2008

69,456,897 for BO, 59,934,814 for JM

Last time I checked there was a system of checks and balances to counter the "Huckabees" in the USA. And the last time I checked there were six Catholics and three followers of Judaism on the Supreme Court and a luke-warm Christian fellow in the White House.

And also the last time I checked, said luke-warm Christian was the leader of the Immoral Majority, the fastest growing USA voting bloc: The 70+ million "Roe vs. Wade mothers and fathers" of aborted womb-babies" whose ranks grow by two million per year.)

i.e. said Immoral Majority now rules the land and will do so in the foreseeable future. Popular vote in 2008

69,456,897 for BO, 59,934,814 for JM

I certainly agree with Byron Tau, that the GOPers will try to make an issue of Islam in the upcoming national election. For generations their primary political strategy has been to identify and demonize some group, which they can then attack and defend us against. In the past it was communists, hippies, Black Panthers, homosexuals, immigrants. I guess it's the Muslims' turn in 2012. Thanks for giving us a heads-up, Mike Huckabee.

Religion may be bunk, but 90% of the world is religious (believes in God). That means atheists are, at best, only 10% and actually that number includes people who are not religious but still believe in God. Apparently, 90% of the world sees evidence you think is not relevant.

POSTED BY: JONSWITZER

It was probably nearer 100% in the distant past, when people believe in Zeus, Thor, Ra, and all those animist spirits and ghosts and witches and whatever.

You know for sure they were fools to believe that nonsense. And we know you're a fool for still believing this nonsense, for appealing to numbers to justify your foolishness.

If you want to try arguing with logic, you shouldn't come to the contest so clearly unprepared.

You ridiculous christians don't have to worry about sharia ever taking over here. The secularists, atheists, and libertarians will fight it as much as we've fought your nonsense taking over our government.

Rongoclunk,

Religion may be bunk, but 90% of the world is religious (believes in God). That means atheists are, at best, only 10% and actually that number includes people who are not religious but still believe in God. Apparently, 90% of the world sees evidence you think is not relevant.

POSTED BY: JONSWITZER

*********************

Evidence? What evidence? You have proof of god's existence? Care to share with the rest of us?

I didn't realize that the existence of god(s) was a democratic thing. If 90% of a group of people jumped off a bridge, would you?

There are a lot of believers in some form of supernatural life but there are a significant number who do not to include Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Religion Adherents
Christianity 2.1 billion
Islam 1.5 billion
Irreligious/agnostic/atheism 1.1 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Chinese traditional religion 394 million
Buddhism 376 million
Animist religions 300 million
African traditional/diasporic religions 100 million
Sikhism 23 million
Juche 19 million
Spiritism 15 million
Judaism 14 million
Baha'i 7 million
Jainism 4.2 million
Shinto 4 million
Cao Dai 4 million
Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
Tenrikyo 2 million
Neo-Paganism 1 million
Unitarian Universalism 800,000
Rastafari Movement 600,000

In the 2012 race to be a Pharisee, Mike Huckabee recently moved to the head of the pack and as we get closer to the Republican primary for President we can expect more hilarity to ensue.

It really is funny to me when the Christian Right gets all bent out of shape about Islam in America. For starters, it illustrates one of the real problems with religion. Since religion is based on faith alone, there is no independent way to verify which religion (if any) is the correct one. With science, we have an independent method of verification called the scientific method. So if we have two competing scientific theories, we just look to see which has the most evidence supporting it. When a theory has strong evidence, most scientists (Creationist hacks excluded) have no problem admitting it even if they supported a theory with less evidence.

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://exm.nr/fxdATn

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.

Rongoclunk,

Religion may be bunk, but 90% of the world is religious (believes in God). That means atheists are, at best, only 10% and actually that number includes people who are not religious but still believe in God. Apparently, 90% of the world sees evidence you think is not relevant.

Sarkozy (France), Cameron (UK), Merkl (Germany) all have publicly declared the failure of "multi-culturalism" specifically related to the unwillingness of Muslims to participate in "liberal" democratic society. Huckabee's courage to admit the same here is to be commended. When will we take our head out of the sand and realize that "liberal" democratic values require certain compromises that Christians have made from the Revolution (1776) til now and that Muslims in both Europe and here have been unwilling to make. My Islamic Society President friend also said publicly that his goal is to see Shariah law established in our town. Again, he was a great soccer player. Nevertheless, Islam, as he sees it, is here to change our legal system to Shariah. Again, our Constitution was developed by both strong Christians AND non-believers. However, there were NO Muslims who signed it. Europe has found Muslims to refuse to adapt to the "liberal" democratic community. I have simply found the same to be true here. Huckabee is raising valid, important and internationally recognized issues.

EAL1

If you think that Jews believe their god is any better than anyone else's you have no understanding of Judaism. Jews believe there is only one god, who is everyone's, and that the only people Judaism is best for are Jews. While this is a pretty brief summary, it is a lot closer to the truth than what you posted.

Sarkozy (France), Cameron (UK), Merkl (Germany) all have publicly declared the failure of "multi-culturalism" specifically related to the unwillingness of Muslims to participate in "liberal" democratic society. Huckabee's courage to admit the same here is to be commended. When will we take our head out of the sand and realize that "liberal" democratic values require certain compromises that Christians have made from the Revolution (1776) til now and that Muslims in both Europe and here have been unwilling to make. My Islamic Society President friend also said publicly that his goal is to see Shariah law established in our town. Again, he was a great soccer player. Nevertheless, Islam, as he sees it, is here to change our legal system to Shariah. Again, our Constitution was developed by both strong Christians AND non-believers. However, there were NO Muslims who signed it. Europe has found Muslims to refuse to adapt to the "liberal" democratic community. I have simply found the same to be true here. Huckabee is raising valid, important and internationally recognized issues.

"You cannot with reason convince a person out of a position that they did not use reason to get to in the first place."

Watching this video, with a bunch of Nazi Lynch mob of white americans along with that happy ne8ro Allen West, I cannot aggree more with this quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6UMso6PKe4

Why the debate over Islam?

The following acts of koranic-driven terror and horror is why:

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat98,691 – 107,707
Iraqi civilians killed as of 11/9/2010, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

10) - Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

Trouble is nobody actually debates religion. If they did they might discover that supernatural thinking is absurd and irrational. But folks don't want to hear this kind of truth, they are more comfortable with illusions of a heaven and a hell, and of eternal life, despite a total lack of evidence.

Whatever happened to common sense? We can do much better than this. Such wishful thinking is infantile and based on one's hopes than it is on reality.

Religion is bunk.

In times of plenty, when gas is cheap, food prices low and jobs plentiful, it seems that it is usually easier for everyone to get along. However, ethnic and religious intolerance lurk just beneath the surface and, when times are hard and resources are scarce, these tensions often explode as every group tries to look out for their own. Sadly, I think that the world is in for a lot more "Huckabee Talk" as the global economy, climate change and high energy prices raise the level of people's fear. Hopefully, another John Lennon will come along to show us the way.

Herb said: Maybe this is a time for people like Huckabee, whose religious pomposity just makes this troubled world worse, to simply be quiet.

He is SO right, but it will never happen, at least not until our religious freedom in this country is stolen by Huckabee types.

RELIGIOUS POMPOSITY! What great expression. I may steal it for certain occasions.

And a thank you to all the responders to Herb that have preceded me on this post. Many good thoughts.

Maybe ALL revelation-based religion should be debated on the campaign trail.

Fact of the matter is that huckabee is not that far off!I m not one to be concerned about sharia law in the states but what he said maybe true for a lot of Muslims!.........just like a lot of christains consider muslims to be misguided or christains of different denominations to consider each other misguided and on and on and on.......

John Lennon definitely had the right idea!

Huckabee knows the perils of capitalizing on the current Islamaphobia pervading the country these days. He is also acutely aware that he must engage that audience to better his less than remote chances of becoming the Republican Presidential Nominee. It saddens me that a man of the cloth cannot resist this temptation. Fortunately, we have Dr. Silverman to check him on his poor judgment and bad behavior.

I will never understand the misguided belief of so many who state, unequivocally, "my god is superior to your god". That is exactly what we see between Christians and Muslims, between Hindhus and Sikhs, between Muslim/Arabs and Jews, even between Catholics and Protestants, all to the detriment of humankind. Since "faith" seems to bring out the worst in so many people, I'll take reason and logic any day. Huckabee and his religious fundamentalists are the other side of the extremist Muslim coin, and both are dangerous to any civilization. Their myopic, strict authoritarian view of the world, which they submit is supported by their religious tenents, does not allow for anything different. What a waste of mental and emotional energy.

I would like to echo the quote that "You cannot with reason convince a person out of a position that they did not use reason to get to in the first place."
Also note that Islam orders non-Muslims to become Muslim (or face the consequences) and calls for the murder of any Muslim who leaves Islam.

"Are religious issues in danger of being exploited?" It is almost a certainty. People can debate the pros and cons of conservatism vs. liberalism from here to eternity, but, when it comes to their religious fantasies, they see debate as dangerous and will resort to violence. John Lennon's murder was an example of this. If anyone has an idea of how we can avoid such extremes, we need to hear it now before it is too late.

"You cannot with reason convince a person out of a position that they did not use reason to get to in the first place". (Author unknown).

The Green Bay Packers are the greatest football team on Earth, and I mock, ridicule, pity, and scoff at those poor deluded fools who favor the Chicago Bears or Minnesota Vikings.

But I wouldn't KILL any of them over it, for goodness' sake, and I fully respect their right to wear their silly horned helmets or Loser #6 jerseys; in fact, I always get a good, uproarious laff out of it.

Wouldn't it be nice if religious believers were more like football fans?