All I'm asking is for a little respect

Hee, Lepi:

""HonorsWar - in other words, "We stole it fair and square, and it's ours now!" Jesus would be so proud.""

That would of course seem to be the sentiment.

Perhaps, if the Christians can't handle all this kerfuffle, it's going to fall to us as it apparently did our Pagan ancestors to simply invite people to celebrate the Yule, the Solstice, in the traditional ways, and let the Christians keep the holiday as they will.

Unfortunately for their triumphalism, they just don't own copyright on the decorations and all, but it's more efficient that way, anyway.

Just don't blame us for your own commercialism, Christians. That's all you guys. Mythically-speaking, we're just the 'elves.' :) Or something. ;)

No-one ownes Christmas--its a part of western culture which seems to cut those secularists both ways. You can honor the occassion in many of its aspects--as a religious event, a religous contribution that is not supernatural, a season when solstice coexists with religion, whatever...no-one owns culture. We can celebrate any religious or pagan tradition as a sign of respect and meaning--find our own meaning. It is what is most human. We make meaning; let us now create our meaning for this christmas and our own practices and rituals or adopt existing ones that represent our feelings and longings. Dogma makes no sense. Make your own damn meaning and get on with the more spiritual aspects of being alive and new while the earth is dying and dark.

http://alastairstephens.com/?photo=atheists-dont-have-no-songs

Honorswar26 said:

"...we must remember that the reason for joy and celebration is the birth of Jesus Christ, the savior of humanity sent by God to live among us, teach us of God's love and to be the blood sacrifice for humanity's sins."

I would argue that this is the reason for christians, but NOT for everyone. There has been a celebration at this time of year for millenia - it was only called "Christmas" fairly recently in historical terms, and was placed at the winter solstice for well understood reasons. So MY reason for joy and celebration at this time of year is NOT the same as yours.

This is actually the root of the problem. Modern day Christians seem unwilling to acknowledge the pre-existance of other traditions or the existance of other ways of thinking. They want everyone to bow to their way of thinking! Those who do not believe as Christians do perhaps say Happy Holidays - those who don't want to offend anyone say Happy Holidays in an effort to acknowledge other ways of thinking or believing. Why is this so difficult for Christians to accept?

Oh great -- a half-off sale to celebrate the birth of Jesus. What's next? Half of theater tickets on the anniversary of Lincoln's assassination?

How 'bout Christians showing some respect for others this time of year instead of whining about being "persecuted" for saying "Merry Christmas?" To insist that everyone say "Merry Christmas" when not everyone is Christian is itself a form of persecution against those who don't happen to be Christian, either by choice or upbringing. This "War on Christmas" crap is very tiring. If you get bent out of shape by someone saying either "Happy Holidays" OR "Merry Christmas," you have problems far deeper than a persecution complex.

Well, poor you. You don't get to define what Christmas is. Not yours. No can has.

The most enjoyable aspects of Christmas are its pagan ones. The tree, the parties, the solstice timing.

No need to mess up a perfectly good holiday with some sicko religion. That's how more and more of us see it, so that's how it's going to be.

HonorsWar - in other words, "We stole it fair and square, and it's ours now!" Jesus would be so proud.

As Christians, we really do need to remember the real reason for Christmas. No matter how churches in the past manipulated the timing of the holiday to co-opt pagans more than a thousand years ago, we must remember that the reason for joy and celebration is the birth of Jesus Christ, the savior of humanity sent by God to live among us, teach us of God's love and to be the blood sacrifice for humanity's sins.

In a world at War with Christmas, I was heartened to be greeted by one local retailer with this salutation:

"In the name of Our Savior Christ Jesus and his Virgin Birth, we are pleased to offer 50% off on all brand-name merchandise and free shipping on purchases of more than $50. May the message of Christ glow brightly for you and yours now and in the coming year! Hosannah in the highest!"

This holiday was invented by the pagans. Christians hijacked it like theocons in America hijacked poor old Jesus for their political agendas.

What's next? Are you going to tell Santa not to stop at the houses of the "non-believers"?

It is comments such as this article writer made that has created and continues to exacerbate the problems between those who say "Happy Holidays" and "Merry Christmas."

What a shame that a Christian prefers dividing people instead of uniting them.

Xplosionmas, start firing at minute before midnight on 12/2 4 minutemen and minutewomen.

Pass around explosives. I like noisy holiday and measure success by amount of explosives bought and sold. The older I get the more dangerous and expensive the toys get. With tough economy, store sales are bombing this year. Boom boom boom, Frosty has a broom. He needs a rocket launcher.

I find the whole idea of "getting it back" bizarre. December 25th is a day, officially declared a national holiday, that anyone can celebrate in any way they wish - and trading gifts, eating a nice meal, spending time with family and friends seems like a pretty good idea for anyone regardless of their beliefs or lack thereof.

Arguments against the "usurpation" of Christmas are as nonsensical as the (obvious) rebuttal: Christians should stop usurping the Winter Solstice festivals, and go back to celebrating the *far* more theologically important Easter - I mean, Spring fertility festival. Oops! That doesn't work, either.

Just give it a rest. We Christians (hopefully) celebrate CHRISTmas, which is buried inside the wholly secular transformation of the holiday into something that carries with it both commercial messages and secular humanism.

Those atheist "purists" who avoid Christmas like the plague are, to me, as weird as Christians who avoid Christmas because 10-12 centuries ago, the tradition began as a way to infuse local pagan ceremonies with a Christian message.

Christians stole the celebration surrounding the winter solstice from the Pagans. They named that re-branded celebrations after their own chosen favorite. I haven't seen any of them complain too publicly.
Since the Christians stole this holiday, it has been thoroughly taken over by the followers of Adam Smith (not Joseph Smith). This leaves us with a completely capitalistic celebration of friendship, guilt, and debt.
The Christians will have as much luck getting it back as the Pagans have.

I celebrate Hannuakah and I am not Jewish. Christmas and have little left in me--that Catholiic school didn't rub out--that could be identified as Christian.

Well sir, give a little get a little! Seeing as how Christmas has absolutely nothing to with Christianity except for the Church's desire to get a monopoly on the power and monies for Priests by usurping the many "pagan" rituals celebrating the solstice since before the creation of Adam; it is beholden on Christians to release their covertness for our holiday! And given that Christmas presumably is the Catholic Mass to celebrate Christ; a title bestowed on poor Jesus several centuries after his torture and murder by those he came to "save"; what do those Christians who have no interest, desire, or approval for masses of anything; why should they whine and cry about Christmas? Not to mention that the average American Christian is so busy getting and giving stuff to those who have no need for any stuff; contrary to most of the purported Jesus's words about poor, poverty, charity, and so forth to claim any religiosity for the season!