Teach the Importance of Christianity to America

Thanks Paar, I will look into that.

"But then perhaps IAM but a quantal misdirection :)
hariaum

Posted by: Navin1"

Perhaps he/she is but more under the chapter on probability waves.

I find Mr. Daly's article a kind of misleading curve ball. Yes, it can easily be argued that religion and Christianity in particular was central in the sociological and cultural makeup of the majority of the white European settlers who made up the 'citizenry' of the new nation. But it could also be argued that Christianity was the singularly most destructive force in the New World at that time.

Mr. Daly's argument that non-believing Founders were conformists to Christian "cultural consensus" does not prove the rule, just proves that we all find ways to conform to the cultural paradigms of our time, if for no other reason than to ease our lives. Indeed it brings up the question of how many "professing believers" truly believe, and how much are proclamations for societal conformity. Deepening that question is that Mr. Daly's examples of believers were politicians. Who knows a politician these days that does not present the image of what is culturally acceptable and common? They advertise their conformity.

I disagree that this Texas proposal "has very little to do with "Culture Wars."" Who is he trying to fool? It IS a battle in "cultural wars", fought on one of the major fronts of the campaign. The re-enshrinement of religion in government is the intent, and certainly is one of the goals of Focus on the Family. Along, perhaps, with some aberration of a theocracy. Lest wise a democracy where leaders are judged in the acid test of their devotion to culturally conditioned norms of religious belief.

I do wish that conservative Christians could find a way to speak truthfully. It is a hypocracy of natures that many cannot live in truth, though they profess devotion to Jesus, who was Truth.

I do not disagree that Christian religions played a very important part in the foundation and development of America. I do not trust a Christian, however, to the task of presenting that story honestly, and certainly not in a way worthy of my children learning it. Christians are biased. They will tell the fantasy, not touch the reality or truth. Slavery came from believing Christians, as did scalping, genocide of Native American tribes, Manifest Destiny, and the burning of non-conforming neighbors after unsubstantiated accusation brings on mob judgment. In the end for purpose of land acquisition by 'believing Christians'.

Of course much of the history of early America was really about land and wealth acquisition by these very Christians that Mr. Daly is uplifting.

So let us see that history written, and how conventional Christian faith led to these insults. Then I may easier swallow the concept of religion being taught in public schools.

I see the Torah as metaphorical teaching. You have to believe in it as history to conclude that the representations made have objective meaning. IF you do that, then absolutely, the old testament is a tribalized religion that is worshiping a demon.

But If you see it as metaphor (ie, the torah is devoid as vowels and thus you are forced to interpret it) then you see a people deluded by materialism repeatedly separating themselves from the divine vision. The ultimate calamity that happens is the idolatry of humanizing Yahweh into a human form and worship messiahs instead of the being which is (hmm sounds familiar to a pseuodhistoric event - the worship of jesus).

But then perhaps IAM but a quantal misdirection :)

hariaum

Are you ready?

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point.

continued below:

test

"1. Belief in Allah"

aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

continued below:

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

Hi friend katavo

I think you get me wrong. I firmly believe in the Creator of the Universe who very ‎gracefully revealed himself to the mankind to guide them through the perfect men called ‎Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus and the last of all Muhammad. The Creator ‎God, the one and the only one, has different names in different countries and languages ‎‎(God Allah YHWH), yet it is the same Creator. All these perfect men received the same ‎message from the Creator; when the message got corrupted due to passage of the time, ‎the message was revived. The perfect men as mentioned above, all of them, were truthful in origin.
‎
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
‎
Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

ccnl1 says:
‎
Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, ‎hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal ‎biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a ‎militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
‎
Paarsurrey says:
‎
Hi friend ccnl1‎
I think you have not studied Quran/Islam/Muhammad for your self. Please support your ‎stance from the text and cotext of Quran, the first and foremost source of guidance of ‎Quran/Islam/Muhammad.‎
I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
‎
Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

http://paarsurrey.wordpress.com/‎

Hmmm, "Navin1" continues to appear on various commentary pages as an apparent probability wave ranting on about the "unChristian Christians" but always failing to note the atrocities of the OT committed by the followers of Judaism which unfortunately served as terrible examples for those "unChristian Christians" to follow.

The christian cultural consensus was what wiped out the natives of the Americas, it promoted slavery, it promoted child labor, wife dunking, witch trials, the right of King George over the colonies.

So should we claim only the good things or also the bad things that the CCC (hm KKK?) propagated?

Our founders had read the Mayflower compact etc and rejected them in setting up our country.

hariaum

continued from above:

This agenda continues today and is funded by the warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

Religion 101 continued:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

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TXatheist says:‎

paar, can you cite some scholarly work that shows jesus wondered off and died later ‎in India?‎

Paarsurrey says:‎

Hi friend TXatheist
Please read the following book:‎

http://www.alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.‎

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
‎ ‎

Religion 101 continued:

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, "The great babs", et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology.

paar, can you cite some scholarly work that shows jesus wondered off and died later in India?

Hi

If the present Christianity whould have been the religion taught by Jesus and Mary; then it would have been important for America and the West;but the truth is that the present Christianity is the religion of cunning Paul and the sinful scribes and not of Jesus, anymore.

Jesus never died a cursed death on Cross as taught by Paul and the scribes. Jesus was though put on Cross yet he was saved death by the grace of God Allah YHWH on the Cross. Jesus later migrated to India and died a peaceful and natural death in Sirinagar, Kashmir, India and is buried there.

Paul's "Christianity", therefore, has no importance for Ameirca or the West or the East.

I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Douginmoz,

Jim Daly wrote "these (founding fathers) highly celebrated non-believers were operating within the context of what the late Dr. Francis Schaeffer called a Christian "cultural consensus."

He acknowledges that the founding fathers were nonbelievers.

As for the Christian cultural consensus. What consensus? The nonbelievers promote equality and separation of church and state, while believers(? Southern Christians) fight for enslavement of blacks and native americans.

It is the enlightenment and rationalism that gets the credit, not the "christian cultural consensus" - whatever that means historically. We can tell you love Jesus more than anything, but please don't take credit away from our nonbelieving secular founding fathers.

How should religion be taught in public schools??

Hmmm, by simply being truthful about the founders and foundations of the major religions.

e.g. (for those eyes that have not seen)

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.
Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

Current crisis:
Realization that the Jews are not god's chosen people.

query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

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clearthinking1 wrote:
Thsi is an incoherent article.
It acknowledges what everyone knows - that the founders of this great nation were not Christians, that their political philosophy was secular, that they were acutely aware of the tyranical history of Christianity in Europe. The Southern Christian clung to slavery til the Civil War and the death of millions finally opened his eyes - not Christian churches in the South.
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Well, I guess I am going to have to agree with you that the article must have been incoherent, because it didn't say any of the things that you just said that it did.

Clearthinking also wrote:
"All men are created equal" is a founding principle. The one thing we know for certain is that Christians believe they are superior to all other belief systems. Christian self-righteousness is not a convincing foundation for the principle of equality.
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Yes, and that founding principle was first practiced in of all places, those dreaded puritan theocracies. The principle is found in Galatians - In Christ, there is no Jew nor Greek (race), no slave nor master (socio-economic class), no male nor female (gender)

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Perhaps, but are you saying that secularists and atheists do not believe the same thing about their beliefs? Go back and read the posts again.

Frank43 wrote:
By quoting Schaeffer, an evangelical apologist, you have discredited your case that this isn't about teaching religion in the guise of history.
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Is it only because he is an evangelical apologist that whatever he says has to be a lie? Or if he was a militant atheist would he also be censored a priori because he espoused a dogmatic viewpoint? On the basis of both freedom of religion and freedom of speech, how very intolerant of you!

Better to teach something useful, like math, financial management, or writing.

Or, if you must get into teaching something about religion and philosophy in early America, try Ethan Allen's anti-Christian rantings. Texans should approve: Allen was a war hero who took Fort Ticonderoga for the new nation.

By quoting Schaeffer, an evangelical apologist, you have discredited your case that this isn't about teaching religion in the guise of history.

Can we kick Texas out of the Union?

This is all politics. The first step is to introduce something that that follows you idealogy but is so widespread that only the opposing fringe/those that see what is happening will oppose it. They are seen as radical. Parents are going to be concered that they kids are being taugh religion and they should be.

The sad thing is that alot of publisher base what they write in books based on the largest purchasers, as is writen in the question they are the second largest.

Socrates didn't have to commit sucide the dose by law was not defined so that a person didn't have to kill themselve. But my teacher said that he felt that if he could speak freely in Athens the freeist city then he couldn't anywhere.

I didn't understand why Socrates commited sucide, now I do.

This is an incoherent article.

It acknowledges what everyone knows - that the founders of this great nation were not Christians, that their political philosophy was secular, that they were acutely aware of the tyranical history of Christianity in Europe. The Southern Christian clung to slavery til the Civil War and the death of millions finally opened his eyes - not Christian churches in the South.

Yet Mr. Daly wants to claim that the greatness of America is because of Christianity, not inspite of it. He implies that morality can only be found in Christians.
"All men are created equal" is a founding principle. The one thing we know for certain is that Christians believe they are superior to all other belief systems. Christian self-righteousness is not a convincing foundation for the principle of equality.

If our founding fathers were so heavily influenced by Christianity, why then are their historical documents devoid of any mention of Jesus Christ? One would think those so influenced by Christianity would show some reverence for such a prominent figure.

There is no disagreement about the truth claims of xianity. There are none that you can't pick up from any philosophy book of that size. "The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....
Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
-- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831, first sentence quoted in John E Remsberg, Six Historic Americans, second sentence quoted in Paul F Boller, George Washington & Religion, pp. 14-15

I am all for the truth of our nation's history being taught in schools, but not one version of it. The problem with perspectives like this one is the fact that it operates out of the idea that the majority should rule. The founders of our country designed our government specifically to prevent that tyrrany of the majority, whether religious or not. The history of the establishment of our government is a founding upon the rule of law and justice for all (except slaves of course), definitely not the preference for Christianity or any other religion.