A day of prayer for judicial common sense

Brethren

i have seen the Judges statement, as Christians, we have our advocate who is able not just to change the statement but also change the heart of all people in support of this.
i love the quote in this article about the First Church [Believer] Apostles
Let be on our knees and Prayer God will never allow any weapon from the evil one to prosper
In Jesus Name there is victory and we are victors not victims

remember God has capabilities beyond the constitution and our imagination

If the federal government is so dead set on taking everything about God and our Lord out of government, please, we need to make sure that they are no longer paid for the holidays of Christmas or Good Friday or the day after Easter and that they are indeed working on those days. Wouldn't it be unconstitutional for them to observe our holidays as well?

Good post, and nice to see that most of the comments have been civil.

First, any Constitutional lawyer will agree (regardless of their political bent) that there is no "separation of church and state" in the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution DOES protect against the United States Goverment establishing or sponsoring an OFFICIAL State Religion. Also, just as importantly, the United States goverment DOES NOT have authority to prevent the practice of any Religion.

The real debate is this: Some believe in God as the higher authority above humanity, and some believe humanity is the highest authority (or a collective of humanity together as that power). Do we, as Americans, want to put our community of citizens in the hands of an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving God? Or, does America want to put it's future in the hands of the myriad of beliefs, wills, and agendas that are born out of the freedom our Constition protects?

It's ironic that the very document that gives our nation it's plurality, is based on a few principles that can be traced to Christianity and it's origins. So, those who want to restrain Christianity are attacking the very document that allows them the freedom to initiate that action. It's time... America must choose whom it will follow.

I have a more disturbing thought than the abolishment of The National Day of Prayer as officially recognized by the US Goverment... Mr. Daly said it best: "By Judge Crabb's standards, if the federal recognition of the National Day of Prayer is illegal, so is Christmas Day and Easter Sunday."

I hope those were not prohetic words Mr. Daly. If so, we already made our choice as a nation. It's a warning that those who are not accountable to the people, are interpreting our Constition through their own intellect, ignoring the consensus of the founders of this nation.

God, you know the heart of this Nation. Forgive us for being proud, help us to rely on You once more, show Yourself real to every individual in this great Nation. This is my prayer to You, in the name of Jesus.

Thank you, Washington Post, for the time and space to hear "the other side of the story."

2 Chronicles 7:14 NIV
If My people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Reason enough to gather as a nation and pray.
The truth is USA historically has relied on God's blessings. God can be our umbrella in the storm or we can be self righteous and think we don't need God.

I believe the following to be true and a basis for why a National Day of Prayer is not only desired but necessary to show our humility as a nation of people willing to submit to our Creator God and Father.
2 Chronicles 7:14 NIV
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Well said, Mr. Daly. I pray on my knees for the same reason as you quoted, so I am reminded who is in charge. I also agree with someone else's comment, this is a completely voluntary thing, why waste government time and money saying it is unconstitutional?

Without claiming precedents, the writer would have few arguments. Those precedents are actually steps on a ladder, as it were, attempting to achieve a commanding presence and indeed claim that the US is a Christian nation, including government functions.

It has always puzzled me that Benjamin Franklin proposed addition of a convocation before every daily session of Congress. That to me is appalling in light of how soon that was after establishing the Constitution and Bill of Rights, clearly understanding that governemnt would need to learn to be neutral on the subject of religion.

These controversies are not so much Christians under fire as they are an expression of outrage over the founding documents being treated as other than what they actually say...finding things that aren't there and ignoring things that are.

Sorry, I do not get it. Sorry to be simple-minded but what is the purpose of a national day of prayer? Isn't it a personal experience and cannot persons pray where ever and when ever they choose?
I always believed (still do) that the separation of church and state is one of the bedrock values that makes this unusually diverse nation work. I wouldn't waste precious energy fighting against a prayer day but could someone explain the purpose. I've read the article, the above comments, and given it some thought - still don't get it.
Posted by: skurtzman | April 30, 2010 2:32 PM

Dear Do Not Get It, it's about commonality amoung we the people who do believe that we humans are not the be all and end all of the universe and acknowledging our dependence on the power of our universe.

Sorry, I do not get it. Sorry to be simple-minded but what is the purpose of a national day of prayer? Isn't it a personal experience and cannot persons pray where ever and when ever they choose?

I always believed (still do) that the separation of church and state is one of the bedrock values that makes this unusually diverse nation work. I wouldn't waste precious energy fighting against a prayer day but could someone explain the purpose. I've read the article, the above comments, and given it some thought - still don't get it.

Rest assured Jim Daly, God will look favorably upon you for your positive comments regarding the National Day of Prayer. The foolish federal judge in Wisconsin made a serious mistake in her ruling that a day of prayer was unconstitutional. Wonder where she got her education.

Its hard to under stand why any one would waste their time and money to get rid of something like the Nat. Day Of Prayer when it does not hurt any one and there is no law saying you have to take part in it and where did all these Judge come from that dont know how to interpret law or the Constitution I think its about time that some one changed the law so the Federal Judge that are trying to change and miss Interpet Our Constitution could be voted out instead of have a life time free pass

THEBOBBOB, if you want a govenrnment with total freedom of religion, you could go back in time and live in Hitler's regime. He made it mighty free of religion. As for me, I will serve the Lord whether or not the government allows it.

The first ammendment was established to prevent the federal government from interfering with an American's right to freely practice his religion. For a judge to rule that exercising one's right to freely practice his religion is unconstitutional is a contradiction in terms. It is a violation of that first ammendment for the government to restrict the free practice of one's religion.

May the Lord Bless us and keep us. Not in the manner to which we are accustomed, but in the manner of growing closer to Him and eachother. May souls seeking the Lord's face see how we "love one another" in the coming years. Keep satan far from us and we pray......Come Lord Jesus!

There is a big difference between "freedom of" religion and "freedom from" religion. The constitution was written with a clear intent to protect religious expression, not to ban it. I'll pray with confidence for more sensible judges to overturn this decision. Maybe even in public - just out of spite.

I find it interesting that Focus on the Family in their defense of The National Day of Prayer never once mentions that our President is continuing to support the initiative also. President Obama is very wise not to attend the events sponsored by this organization.

I more than in my entire Life Have Prayed for U.S.A. / Soldiers, their Family's &
the People were trying to give Freedom's such as We Have! And For My Muslim Friends, They have taught me to Pray To My God / Jesus more than once a week or day.
Because I Watch them Pray 1/2 a dozen times ,each day. Thank's for the Wake Up Call!
Gary

Did yall notice in his eulogy at the funerals for the West Virgina minors our CHRISTIAN PRESIDENT said that the miners ARE WITH THE LORD. He gave comfort with teh words of his religion, or rather his relationship with Jesus Christ since that relationship is what Christianity is based upon.

our government is never going to be free from religion, thank God, as long as those who run it are free to be religious and to act under the principles of faith. The point of not supporting a particular religion is not to extinguish it, but to ensure that everyone is free to practice their own without others trying to stuff theirs down their throat.

The debate over the national day of prayer is based on faulty definitions of religion that are used in the debate. People use religious names as a shorthand way of identifying themselves to others, but religion has nothing to do with our individual relationships with our Creator and Savior, other than to give us a terminology to discuss it.

Prayer is not a project, but the state of being in relationship with ones Savior and Creator as revealed to us over the course of life. When the Bible says, "Pray constantly," something impossible to do as a project, it is saying that people are in a moment to moment relationship with the Lord (God, who is in a covenant relationship of unconditional love with people who ask to enter that relationship).

Ledotter,

Scripture tells us in 1 Corinthians 2:14 "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

We as christians do not go to the Bible and read it within ourselves, it is the Holy Spirit within us that discerns. So you using the bible against us is useless. I I think it is wonderful that you are reading it, now ask Jesus to be in your life and the Spirit will live within you and you will be able to discern it properly.

Ro. 8:1-8

Don't give yourself that much credit BOBBOB.... I'm not afeared of you....Jesus said it best when he said "Get behind me Satan!"

Don't give yourself that much credit BOBBOB.... I'm not afeared of you....Jesus said it best when he said "Get behind me Satan!"

As we drift farther from God in this country, He will remove His blessings from us. The moral decay in our public schools since the time that prayer was removed, provides a clear picture of where our country is headed.

I believe it is time for the Christian community to show if we really want to show to the world if we are willing to obey God and not men.
God gave us his word to live by it and we can be like those three young men that were threaten by king of Babylon to put them in the fire if they did not worship him and the statue and these faithful guys said to the king we will not worship you and if God does not save us we still obey him. or like Daniel when they told him not to pray to his God, He did not hide, He did not pray with the hopes no one find him, He prayed to His God, OUR GOD with the windows open so everybody could see him.
If the world does not like for us to pray, LETS PRAY, and if we are to put in jail becase of that SO BE IT... God will take care of us.

Kudos to LEDOTTER AND THEBOBOB!
As a believer who believes in and practices prayer, I find your comments truer to the message of the Bible than the current hypocrisy of right wing politics dressing up as conservative Christianity. Where was Shirley Dobson and Focus on the Family Action during the "poor decisions made by our PREVIOUS government?" "For Times Like These" indeed!? We need prayer for our country and prayer should be encouraged. We also need folks to lead us in prayer who are a bit below the pay-grade of a Franklin Graham. (Check out his combined salaries on Charity Navigator - from the Billy Graham Association [$267,000] and Samaritan's Purse [$437,00] - I sure hope he tithes!) The old time Moravians had it right with their 24/7/365 prayer vigil - a constant offering of prayer - but not in the middle of the public square.

I believe in God, and I believe in prayer!

The fact that someone does not believe is not a threat to me. Trying to tell me that the government I put in place can't support prayer is a threat. It threatens to disenfrachise me and those like me. After all since we are a "people governed by the people", the government is there to represent me - and you. Therefore government is for believers and non-believers.

On the National Day of Prayer if you do not want to pray, don't pray. Observe it just like on other days that the government recognizes with a national holiday. We are not compelled by law to celebrate any national holiday. I do not march on Martin Luther King Jr Day, I didn't pay my respects to president's past on President's Day, and if I don't feel like being thankful on Thanksgiving Day no one will compel me by law to be thankful. But please don't go to court and eliminate those days just because I my not want to observe them.

If we are a self-governing people, how can we ever have a government that does not advocate prayer? To do that we would have to outlaw religion itself. Because to have a nation that does not advocate prayer we would have to get rid of all the religious people. BTW First Ammendment of the Constitution expressly forbids any law or statue that would prevent me from practicing my faith.

What is going on in our country?
I work with a group of awesome cardiologists who have been in the United States for 15 years. They have all taken the time to get their citizenship and they cannot understand why we continue to bow down to every negative about God and Prayer.

They are Muslim and we have prayed on several occasions when patients as well as employees need support from God.

I pray the United States will wake up before God turns His back on America.

Don Hudson
McKinney, Texas

The legal history of the Establishment Clause in the House (which is public record) and the Senate (which was secret but some of it is available in historical records) supports Daly's comments. In view of that history, the Establishment Clause was designed to do two things: (1) to prevent the federal government from establishing a state-run religious denomination; and (2) to prevent the federal government from forcing Americans to worship or practice their faith any particular way. Governmental recognition of a national day of (voluntary) prayer was not prohibited. People like Judge Crabb who say otherwise are anti-deomcratic revisionists who seek to amend the U.S. Constitution to conform to their own beliefs. Moreover, those people are literally enforcing their own "religion" (either atheism or secular humanism which are protected by the Free Exercise Clause) through their positions in government. That IS a violation of the Establishment Clause. For example, the dictionary definition of secular humanism is the belief in human values without reference to a god. What did Crabb do? She denied reference to a god through her position as a judge.

I am a Christian, and an ordained minister. When my father was rushed to the hospital a few months ago, my neighbor, a Muslim from Pakistan, came over and asked me what was going on. When he heard what was happening he said, "We will be praying for your Dad."
I could have said, "No, don't! I don't believe in your approach to God." But instead I thanked him for his neighborly concern and the kind offer to pray.
If some people in our government don't want us to pray for them, that's their problem. We will pray, with or without government approval and sanction. We will even be praying for Judge Crabb, whether she likes it or not! I will be praying for the Pagan/Witch and the atheists who commented earlier as well, as well as for my Muslim friend next door.

VOCATUS ATQUE NON VOCATUS DEUS ADERIT

abeisaak:

I am a pagan and a witch and I strongly object to your use of the word cultic in reference to our religious practices. In many of our daily practices we are ritualistic but in no way cultic. We, unlike so many Christians, are tolerant of others and their beliefs and practices. I know that I speak for most pagan practitioners when I ask that you give us the same tolerance that we give you.

I pray daily to my Goddess and therefore in no way do I support the loss of the National Day of Prayer. It is a day for meditation and prayer of all religions. I do hope that the judge's ruling will be overturned. However, I hope that it is not turned into another Christian persecution of other religions.

I am not shocked that this has happened. We as Christians have always had to fight for the right to speack out in a Gov. setting or in public. Our Country was founded on that right and it is slowly and slighly being taken away as stated in the book of Revelations that the word of God will be taken away. We must stand as a Christian Nation and protect the rights that our fore fathers had established. Pray for our leaders and judges of the Law that they will stand for the one and only original Consitution of the United States of America. God Bless America and her people.

Hey, THEBOBBOB, it is the other way around: Religion is to be free of government controlling it and telling those of faith what they can and cannot believe in.

It makes my heart ache to see our country slipping the way it is. There will always be a National Day of Prayer as far as I am concerned and I will be praying for our country that day as I do many days of the year!
Our country was founded on religeon and to remove it is uncontionable! May 6th IS the National Day Of Prayer. Fortunately they aren't coming to our homes and we still have some freedom of speech left at least for now. If they tell me I can not pray I will pray anyway! Our God hears our thoughts! God will show us how to witness for Him!

The rest of the story:

"... they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said to them, 'Whether it is right in the sight of God to give heed to you rather than to God, you be the judge; for we cannot stop speaking about what we have seen and heard.'” Acts 4:18b-20 NASB

Amen!

Mr. Daly's article is well stated, backed by history. He uses facts not just opinion. The National Day of Prayer (or NDP) is non-threatening and an expression of love for others. Just as the early church gathered together & prayed, so participants in the NDP gather together to ask God's favor and blessing on this country and its peoples. No on is forced or obligated to attend. This is an event of choice just as is Mardi Gras or the Superbowl. Again, no one is forced to attend. Therefore, no one should feel threatened by it...unless of course they fear the One being addressed...which is the beginning of wisdom...and He is a forgiving God. Thank you Washington Post for having the courage and integrity to carry this article. Thank you Constitution for granting us Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion. Thank you God for this country.

To Tomerbaz:
Let us get one thing straight. No one is forcing anything down your throat or anybody elses. It is a free choice. Relax. You are too uptight about this. Nobody is forcing you to go to church or handcuffing you and putting you in jail. Now maybe your folks were making you feel like that, but that is not the way it is supposed to be. Again, it is a free choice. You can choose to believe or not believe. I didn't believe for many years, but I do now and am glad I do believe. I definitely believe in prayer, and worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I hope one day you will believe, too. God does not force anybody.

I agree. Those who object to a National Day of Prayer, don't hesitate to take the day off with pay on Christmas. Why should they object to people gathering together and praying for the well being of our nation. If they don't believe in prayer, then why are they even concerned about it. It is true. We must pray more fervantly than ever for those who oppose what this country was founded upon, praying citizen's.

I agree. Those who object to a National Day of Prayer, don't hesitate to take the day off with pay on Christmas. Why should they object to people gathering together and praying for the well being of our nation. If they don't believe in prayer, then why are they even concerned about it. It is true. We must pray more fervantly than ever for those who oppose what this country was founded upon, praying citizen's.

To those who felt the national day of prayer is imposing one belief on the other, there is liberty and freedom for anyone in this country to honor/dishonor this day; thank God for this country for giving this freedom. If any feeling of imposing on your belief, perhaps it is something in your conscience that is rebelling against it, and to examine what it is with honesty would free you from that feeling of bitterness about what is free to all of us to abide.

If the National Day of Prayer is unconstitional then there are many other things that the government endorses that must come into review such as Earthday. This is clearly a pagan holiday started from time and memorial. History is littered with this religion and is cultic practices. Another must be with those of the greatest faith of all time, Evolution. There is absolutely no fact to back this up yet it continues to be believed and practiced to this very day.

I am taken back by some the comments suggesting (or even stating) that observing a National Day of Prayer is "cramming one's believes [sic] down our throats." I have participated in National Day of Prayer activities for many years, and I do not know of any event that mandated attendance by anyone. If one is not interested in participating, he/she is certainly under no obligation to do so.

I appreciate Mr. Daly's reference to our founding fathers' intent to provide a nation that allows freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. This argument of separation of church and state is routinely taken out of context. The founders were clearly providing for the protection of religion from the government, not preventing the influence of religion to the government. I am thankful that I do not have to answer to a state run religious organization, and I am equally thankful for the heritage of people of faith that have forged this nation through their submission to God and their leadership of this nation.

I am thankful that I live in a country where we can have this conversation. I see the day coming all too quickly that this will not be the case. To address those that don't understand why Christians want to "ram God/prayer" down unbeliever's throats: I know and have a relationship with a God that was willing to die on the Cross for me - pay the price for my sins so that I would not have to. My desire (and HIS) is that all would have this same relationship and forgiveness. To address those that believe the founders of this wonderful country sought a "freedon FROM religion" - think again. What they sought was a "freedon OF religion". I suggest - no, I challenge you to checkout the website: www.wallbuilders.com. By the way -for 40 years, as an atheist/agnostic I did have a day that acknowledged my non belief/ignorance - April 1st!

No nation, society, or culture can be just or event survive for long without Judeo-Christian values.
The more we remove our polity from the Judeo-Christian ethic the less meaning words such as freedom, liberty, compassion, and capitalism will have. Lincoln said, "we, the American People, find our account running, under date of the nineteenth century of the Christian era.--We find ourselves... under the government of a system of political institutions, conducing more essentially to the ends of civil and religious liberty, than any of which the history of former times tells us."
This unique experiment will not and cannot be repeated without the values and ethic previously mentioned. Further it is folly to believe we can vanquish Islamism and the terror it rings with secular ideas. With that in mind, we should make every effort to expose every child in our country to these values. Going green, brushing one's teeth, and contraception are not values which will make a difference against totalitarianism of any stripe!
Cheers and God Bless!

Deut 17:15 helps to explain why America is having so much internal turmoil. Christians will understand. Most non- Christians do not care what scripture says, so this remark is not for them. We know that when we act against God's Word there is consequences. And so we are living with them now. But, we are to follow God, not man.

Don't Christians have enough opportunities to pray? Say, like every Sunday? Why do you feel the urge to force your believes on everyone?
Or is it the thinking that not enough people come to church, so we'll shove Jesus down their throat through the government?

Ledotter, I think you meant Matthew 6 vs. Mark 6. That aside, remember context is important. There are many instances of public prayer in the Bible--Jesus himself often prayed in public, as when he was baptized (Luke 3:21) & with his disciples (John 17). But when an individual is looking to be praised for their flowery words (v5 of your quoted passage) they're missing the point of prayer and shouldn't expect God to be impressed. As for the "heathen" piece: that's speaking of people who repeat the same phrases over and over expecting the repetition will in and of itself get God's attention. The Bible doesn't advocate that, so anyone who's praying that way is wasting their breath.

We all decide who, and what, we want to believe in. And, it's true we will all answer individually for what we stand up for, or against. But, every person is the captain of their own ship. They make the decision which route to take. So, for all those who argue against God, against public prayer, against using Jesus' name...sail on brother, have a good trip!

I sure appreciate your Godly response during these tough times. The Lord uses everything for His own purposes. He is really in control and is waking up the Chritians with what the Lord is allowing at this time. God bless you all and your outreach to our country to encourage us all. Jon Burnham. Dunlap, IL

Well said Jim Daly. The many poor decisions made by our current government are awakening and stirring the faithful to action-many who have been indifferent for too long. The prayer lines are busy and our Lord is listening. He will triumph. Faith, Hope and Love and the greatest of these is Love. Pray, pray, pray.

WHY do Christians want to encourage public prayer, especially during governmental meetings, in schools, on military bases etc. when their own scriptures state:

 Mark Chapter 6 vs5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."
Are they embracing "hypocrisy" or declaring themselves "heathens"??

It seems to me, Thebobbob, that your post appears to find believers a threat. True the government is for everyone. The National Day of Prayer is for all people of all beliefs. If as an athiest or agnostic, you wish to pray to "mother earth," the president or "a ham sandwich" that is your choice in this free society. It's as simple as that. You don't believe in God, that's fine for you, I'm sure you believe in something and if so, that's what you should pray to if you choose to pray. No one is forcing you to pray at all. You have any option you wish.

I'm always astounded that believers find non-believers a threat. Belief is fine, go believe. Government is for for believers and non-believers. If believers would support National Atheism Day or National Day of Agnosticism I would be surprised.

The founding father knew the mix of politics and faith was toxic. They were creatures of The Enlightenment, a time when the yoke of government enforced religion was being removed all over Europe.

If there is one thing Americans should support is Government free from religion.