Democracy Must Discipline Religion

Dave Brock, you would probably require proof daily. You'll have your proof, but I'll pity you when you do. I'll pray to the Jesus you despise that he'll move your heart some time before this life passes. I know sometimes I get a little harsh with my comments, and I'm sorry, but I do care about your present and next life.
Peace be with you.

WM

The four foolishness passages have application for their intended marks.

Dwell upon them, let them sink in.

They were written a very long time ago, but they were anticipatory.

Bill L:

Feel free to prove that Jesus was the 'Son' of a 'God' and not just one of many rather deluded, very much mortal, men throughout history with ideas above their station.
Afterall there have been a good few people calling themselves the Son of God. Most of them clean windshields at stop lights and live in boxes (or padded cells).

Indeed, feel free to prove your God and to let me hear these suppsoed words from 'His' own mouth (or whatever 'He' speaks from).

IN FACT...Feel free to prove me totally wrong full stop.

AHHHHHHHHH...But there in lies your on-going problem does it not.

Although this inability to prove a single piece of anything at all to do with your religion does not stop you (or the rest of these followers with all their supposed one true Gods) dictating how countries, Governments and of course people themselves should live thier lives and act.

Is this arrogance beyond the realms of anything ever known, or just plain madness?
Whatever...to the rest of us it's most bizarre and extremely annoying.

Reverand? Wallis:

You're making the assumption that YOUR moral values are THE moral values. The most moral folks I ever met were atheists. They didn't lie to me, cheat me or threaten me. All three are done regularly in the name of a morality based upon the ridiculous notion everyone is a sinner and there is forgivness for lying, cheating, stealing and killing as long as the obvious criminal is sorry and accepts Jesus Christ as his/her Lord and Savior.

Doesn't your group support capital punishment and more jails? Are you afraid there won't be room for you?

Atheists seek forgivness from those they injure for the injured are the only ones that can forgive. Jesus is a fictional person based upon a real person that has been found in the historical record. The likelyhood that Jesus can forgive is equal to that of Mark Twain's fictional person, Huck Finn who's fictional life was based upon MT's life experiences being able to forgive the transgressions of others against others.

It's time to get religion and the religious out of government, again. There's no way to justify it and it's unconstitutional to boot. Your tax breaks that amounts to tithing atheists need to be removed. Does your charity begin at home like it does for most all big time religion operators?

JESUS: The original Liberal Jew!

WN: Yeah, yeah, we all know that your favorite deity is the greatest thing since sliced bread and we know that is true because the book that was compiled by his followers says so.

Just like the holy books of Mormons, Hindus, Muslims, etc etc ... of course, your book happens to be the REAL holy book. Because it says so.

O for a thousand tongues to sing
My great Redeemer’s praise,
The glories of my God and King,
The triumphs of His grace!

My gracious Master and my God,
Assist me to proclaim,
To spread through all the earth abroad
The honors of Thy name.

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/o/f/o/ofor1000.htm

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Mister Wallis progressive christianity simply means go along with what the culture of the time tells us. J. Vernon MaGee always said that if you want to know what the church will look like in 10 years look at society today. He knew Mr. Wallis' type well.

Dave Brock, too bad you weren't around 2000 years ago to stop this Christian stuff before it began, well your type was, he stuck a spear into Jesus' side. What do you know, even that couldn't stop Him!

People like Unmerited and Silence Dogood are truly frightening - the "Bin Ladin Lites" of Christianity. I can only hope that people like this (whatever religion they embrace) are soon able to realize that their beliefs are delusional or that the evidence for these beliefs is so subjective that they should be embarrassed at the very thought of trying to spread them to others.

A Hermit says:

"That's because Mr. Wallis rightly understands that the first is a personal matter between the individual and their perception of God...."

Yet Jesus calls all of His Disciples to:

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

A Hermit, Wallis and most of the readership know the First and Greatest Commandment and they also know The Great Commission and to whom Christ directed it.

All Disciples know their charge if they know the Word. Yes, it includes the 2nd Greatest Commandment, but the First and Greatest is stark and bold and many Disciples fail to see how A Hermit or Wallis can minimize or invalidate the things that Jesus said were so important.

That real life, there to be seen and heard, flesh and blood people and their lives should be in ANY WAY ruled (and their democracy overruled) by religions TOTALLY UNPROVEN to have ANY basis in reality AT ALL should be utterly wrong to every right-minded person who is not a dark-ages dweller who still runs away screaming from fire!

That we still, in the 21st century, have ANY countries and ANY people being run, governed, controlled and dictated to by ANY religion is a sad joke indeed.
The fact such cave-man superstition is actually GROWING is breathtaking in it's (dangerous) idiocy.

silence dogood says:

"Jim Wallis knows the first and Greatest Commandment, yet his position and website and public comments appear to always spring from the 2nd one."

That's because Mr. Wallis rightly understands that the first is a personal matter between the individual and their perception of God and the second is the one that has to do with relationships between people, which is what politics is all about.

It's an important distinction, especially in a multi-ethnic, multi religious secular democracy.

Regards

A Hermit

The only reliable basis for judging a candidate for President, or anything else, is his/her past actions, including the action of voting.

A candidate's statement of his/her religious belief, or belief in anything else, is worthless in judging the candidate's fitness for office. Candidates will say anything they think will help them get elected.

A proclaimed religious belief is the least reliable of all beliefs, since it deals with matters that are unverifiable, both as to the content of the belief and as to whether the candidate actually believes what he says he believes.

EXAMPLE: George Bush proclaims himself to be a Born Again Christian. Yet his usual behavior displays none of the traits of Jesus. Rather, he often resembles the Abrahamic God in the midst of one of His deadly anti-human tantrums.

Actions speak more truthfully than self-serving declarations of virtuous beliefs

Jim Wallis knows the first and Greatest Commandment, yet his position and website and public comments appear to always spring from the 2nd one.

He has found a wide audience on Nightline, in the On Faith Column and, arguably can reach the eyes, ears and hearts of large quantities of "the lost" in response to the instructions of the Great Commission.

Yet the opportunity that many genuine Evangelists would hit clear out of the ballpark - to draw a lost world into a solid vertical relationship with God (Love the Lord your God with all your Heart, strength, soul and Mind - from Jesus and Moses) is not offered.

Instead, Jim Wallis addresses that 2nd and horizontal relationship, addressed by Jesus and Moses.

His audience should know that there is a greater Commandment than the one offered by Mr. Wallis.

You said:

"I criticize the President’s theology as a Christian, in part because that is how he seeks to justify his policies. But then I argue my political points in the public square on the basis of a morally-based public policy. The two are complementary, not contradictory."

I suggest that the President wouldn't know a "theology" if he bumped into one. He's a born again alcoholic, not a pretend philosopher (theologian).

I'm opposed to any morally-based public policy. Public policy must be based on carefully reasoned (ethical) considerations to be meaningful.

I don't care what the President (or you) needs to get him through the day. I'm only interested in how the government impacts on my life. This "faith based" administration is a disgrace to any thinking human being as demonstrated by poll after poll all over the planet.

Your religious-based beliefs are no more helpful than Mr. al-Maliki's. You are part of the problem.

Thank you.

Bob