It's time to end this immoral war

The US has a compelling moral duty to continue the occupation of Afghanistan. The cost in the blood of our young soldiers, or in the hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money, is irrelevant. God directs us to immediately promise the honorable President Karzai that our troops will remain for a minimum of fifty years. during which time we protect the Afghan people from attack by the Taliban, even though the Afghan people are the Taliban.

Shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, President George W. Bush claimed that America would be fighting a “crusade” against terrorism. The implication was that this is a religious war. Nearly a decade later, this continues to be a religious war.

As long as people are convinced that God is on their side and that when they die they will go to eternal paradise we will continue to be at war with someone for something. This mentality effectively makes all wars religious wars.

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m6d30-On-Faith-Reevaluating-the-Afghanistan-War

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.

I am a US Army veteran and was in South Vietnam from February 15, 67 through February 13, 68.

The US Military in South Vietnam did absolutely nothing to preserve the freedoms of the citizens of the USA living in the States and US Territories.

The terrorists in the Mid-East don't even have a country. They are like the Viet Cong during the Vietnam Conflict; they live by their own rules.

A person mentioned a "Just War." There is no such thing as a just war and you won't find support for one in the New Testment portion of the Bible either.

Jesus even said to count the cost first before even going to war AFTER the head of another country DECLARED WAR ON YOUR COUNTRY FIRST. The leaders of Iraq and Afghanistan never declared war on the USA.

Jesus said, "By their fruits you shall know them." It has been documented that 3 different evangelists led George W. Bush in the "sinner's prayer." Billy Graham praying with G. W. was a political thing. A real Believer in Jesus would not call anyone an a-hole like Bush did when he thought his mike was off after a press conference.

G. W. Bush, like his father and Ronald Reagan, had ordained "Christian" ministers on his speech writing staff to make the presidents for whom they were writing sound more "Christian." I met one of them, Doug Wead, when he was still an Assemblies of God missionary before he joined Reagan's staff. Wead is also a friend of the Bush family. People called by the LORD to be minister of the Gospel of Christ Jesus shouldn't become involved in politics that way nor should they become political leaders.

Does anyone believe that these cave dwelling, motorbike riding terrorists are a threat to the American way of life? They are a slight threat some PROPERTY. We are not protecting our FREEDOM fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Let's bring our soldiers home tomorrow, and secure the damn borders!

Jim is biased in his beliefs, he believes there is no thing as a just-war. His bias is also evident in his discription that the US is occupying Afghanistan. It is the NATO that is in Afghanistan, the US forces are just part of that. NATO is there, but not as an "occupying force".

Perhaps Jim can explain who and how someone would provide "security" for these NGO's? The majority of the NGO's already in place, seek the protection of NATO forces.

Long before NATO forces were in Afghanistan, the Taliban were already killing NGO workers.

Wallis equates the evil on the militant Islamism with what the US forces are doing. Jim fails to acknowledge that the Taliban and extremist forces occupy villages and use women and children as shields when coming under fire.

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... Credit to "JJ" . . . . . . . http://onwapo.com

This war did not start in 2001 or 2003 as it started in 1914 with first invasion of Iraq. Rest is in:

http://www.amazon.com/Khondakar-Mowla/e/B002U7Z600

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Khondakar-Mowla/e/B002U7Z600

http://www.Caliphate-Khilafah.com

Whatever the justice of America's cause in Afghanistan, it may be several years too late. The Bush administration gave the Taliban a long breathing space in which to recover from the invasion of 2002.
Now the Taliban is "on a roll". Even it were even now possible to crush the Taliban over a period of several years, the American people will not wait that long.

Jim Wallis raises some very important points, but because he is a committed pacifist, he is against all wars, no matter the context. Therefore, one must evaluate his points independently and see if there are more facts, because Wallis will always put a war situation in the most negative light due to his anti-war beliefs. If this is really a police action to protect Afghans from the thuggery of the Taliban and Al Queda, then the issue is more morally complex.

Your hubris is in thinking you can make the enemy go away just by sitting in a drum circle and talking about how great it is to ride the jebus.

Life doesn't work like that though, and these people want to shoot people like you. Some days, I can't say I blame them when I read logically pathetic drivel like this.

naughtiusmaximus, here's a question. Iraq did not attack us. The cost of the invasion of Iraq has cost US taxpayers over one trillion dollars to date. Do you think it was worth one trillion dollars to kill Saddam Hussein?

Next. The health care plan will cost less than one trillion dollars over ten years and will insure nearly every American. Do you think that it is worth spending that much money for health care?

There you have it - one trillion dollars to kill one man, less than one trillion dollars to insure all Americans. Do you support both and why?

The war should be against religious extremism. Of all kinds.

thank you, Jim.

Shut the hell up and crawl back under your rock.

Jim, I would be most interested to learn your opinion on whether Israel would be justfied in a first strike against Iran.

Wallis acknowledges that we have an obligation to the people of Afghanistan that precludes us from just walking away, and that fulfilling the obligation will require security. In the end, he's just calling for a shuffling of priorities.

Some people are not hesitant to behead leaders who cooperate with development projects and throw acid in the face of girls going to school. A 'light' approach will not work with them. And Wallis misunderstands COIN - he thinks of it as primarily a military operation, when it is more about policing - providing security for the population.

Finally, all his guesstimates about how Afghans regard our presence are largely products of his own imagination, not research.

Yes, there were tactical failures and strategic errors in the past 9 years - but it is wrong to use them to tar our current efforts.

The goal in Afghanistan is to create the conditions in which the Taliban will decide they have more to gain from negotiating than from continuing to attempt an armed takeover of the country. It is a reasonable goal and a just cause.

That's right the war in Iraq was completely unjust. Sadaam Hussein was a great guy! So what's the big deal with slaughtering the Kurds, and killing women and children with poison gas. He was very popular, he got 100% of the vote! And what's a few rapes by his sons Scrappy and Scooby. It's completely unjsut and immoral not to have Saddam. And the Taliban, some acid thrown in school girls faces because they wanted to learn to read, and killing some children because their families spoke to US military. I think we should just declare Sharia law is worldwide. Because Muslim countries are so wonderful.

War by definition is immoral. Defending yourself by war is an unfortunate necessity at times. We are in Afghanistan out of necessity. No one wished it or sought it. It is a hard dirty job but one that must be done. Al Qeada and the Taliban need to be destroyed. We have no choice. They traveled half way around the world seeking death. I say give them what they seek.

First point, Carter signed on to fund the religious weaponized zealots to lure the Soviet Union into Afghanistan in the fisrt place, lets call it cold war war moral relativism if we want and it was definitely cold.

Vietnam and now the name of the game is occupying terroritory forever if possible using whatever pretext and excuse the public will buy into. lights, tunnels, actions...ultimately long term bases

It seems no one occupying a country by force is being left alone to do business or humanitarian action but China seems to be doing ok... we may be safer not protecting our interests than when we are protecting them by force.

The terrorists have been recruiting against us just fine for 50 years. Their attacks have gotten bolder and more damaging to us for all those years.
All of those "should have" actions Mr. Wallis suggest are pure fantasy.
A police action against persons who have an entire nation backing their actions, without us actually invading? How, pray tell would that have worked?

Jim,

You are trying to have both ways at the same time. Withdraw and at the same time help Afghan live in peace and prosperity. They can not live in peace and prosperity unless Taliban and Al Qaeda are defeated. It is that simple.

Gen Petraeus has a tough job. Defeat Taliban and at the same time. keep the focus on development. There is no other choice.

Jim Wallis’s clarion call to end this war will be realized sooner than he thinks, thanks to the selection of General Petraeus to replace General McChrystal.

Being the buddy of Pakistani General Kayani, General Petraeus is blessing the US policy of reconciliation engineered by Pakistan. So Pakistani government is going to install a coalition government of Karzai and Taliban with US approving the deal so that US can declare victory and get the hell out of Afghanistan. Never mind that same Taliban has been responsible for the death of US/NATO soldiers in Afghanistan until now and that the Pakistan created this Taliban menace as confirmed by UN report on Bhutto killing released on 4/15/10 that "The PAKISTANI MILITARY ORGANIZED AND SUPPORTED THE TALIBAN TO TAKE CONTROL OF AFGHANISTAN IN 1996“.

Obama will have his victory a la Vietnam style just like Nixon/Kissinger and Taliban government will return to power, also just like a la Vietnam style within two-three years. By that time Obama, Hillary and Petraeus will be gone from the scene.

Only question left will be ’will US continue to have to feed billions of dollars to Pakistan as ransom money after Taliban takeover of Afghanistan’ so that Pakistan can protect US from future terrorist attacks? And if US does not, then will Pakistan return to same old terrorism, citing US walk-away from the region just as it happened in 1990s?

Seriously, I do not know why we are still there. We need to just go. There will never be a good time to back out. Bush, and the same problem. There's really no way to come out of this smelling rosey, unless we decrease our troops so gradually that no one notices. But, this is too big an issue so everybody notices. Just rip the bandaid off and get it over with. IM Elite Review

I agree, it is time to end the wars. But it is time to face Islam for what it is, and end all Muslim immigration. It is also time to ban Sharia Law. Then arrest and deport if possible, all pro-Sharia Muslims. They are to be looked upon as enemies of the state. Just like Nazis were.

For more on the the threat of Islam.

http://loganswarning.com/

Morally and ethically, we need to just leave! There is no reason to expect any American and European presence of any sort to be beneficial! Even well-meaning NGOs will not succeed in the current climate; perhaps in a generation they might be welcomed again; but today, any efforts are just as likely to end up with murdered recipients as any improvement!