War Requires Turn to Faith

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THE ORLANDO DECLARATION

The following was drafted by the staff of Trinity Church, Vero Beach in the Diocese of Central Florida. It makes excellent reading - and it would be good to see the Windsor Bishops agree to this declaration when they meet.

WHEAT AND WEED

Jesus said, “Let both grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

I. Jesus is the Only Sure Way

Wheat: "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

The Holy Scriptures record the saving acts and words of the Word made flesh, Jesus Christ. To him alone do we need to listen in order to find life and peace.

Weed: false teachers seduce the faithful by insisting that there are other forms of divine revelation or that the Church can re-interpret the Scriptures without reference to the earliest and plainest interpreters.

We reject any attempt to preach Jesus as other than the Word reveals him to be.

http://www.trinityvero.org/orlandodeclaration.asp

"If we possesses faith in God through whatever our diverse religious traditions might be we are constantly reminded to rise to a higher level of being where we are to love God with all our heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbors as ourselves."
If any further proof were needed that Episcopal clowns like Citizen Chane and Squidly Diddly deny John 14:6, here it is.

Since TEC leadership has apostatized, they can no longer be considered part of the church, and thus have no claim upon the properties they are now trying to steal, so as to turn them into malls and strip joints.

Until Muslims cleanse their koran, we must continue to reiterate the dangers of their operating manual. So again:

1.2 billion Muslims in the world. Why? Because they were born Muslims and don't know any better. Lose their faith because of war? Of course not, war is part of their "koranic" faith. "Death to unbelievers" being their battle cry!!!!!!

Concerned...,

You start to sound like a broken record. Come up with some new material!

Christian and Muslim faith in wartime is that their own specific "god in a box" will give them victory over their enemies. If they were truly people of faith, they would oppose war instead of looking at it as a contest of "my god's better than your god" Religion is the major cause of war throughout history. It is the devil's tool for humankind to try to kill everything and anything different including religion.

1.2 billion Muslims in the world. Why? Because they were born Muslims and don't know any better. Lose their faith because of war? Of course not, war is part of their "koranic" faith. "Death to unbelievers" being their battle cry!!!!!!

Bruce
did you annihilate yourself with your multiple postings?

you just about anniliated us.

be careful, boyfriend!!!

luv
henry

all those CAPS are brutal

a few would do the trick

Peace

Bruce,

You MADE your point! I think you made it one (or ten or twenty) too many times.

I don't know if you are just too impatient to see your words on the blog or if you are trying to any us all.

Have patience when posting....sometimes it takes a while....

And posting the same thing over and over and over on all the panelists blogs makes you a nuisance.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

The problem with WAR TODAY, is that in order to deceive one's enemy, one must often also deceive one's own people.

Take Iraq for example. Most Americans believe that we are in Iraq to preserve our future access to oil and many Americans do NOT REMEMBER the gas lines going all around the block, the possibility of even after waiting sometimes for over a hour, the station might run out anyway.

EVEN IF WE ARE THEREFORE IN IRAQ TO PRESERVE AMERICA'S FUTURE ACCESS TO OIL ---- SO WHAT !!!

LETS WAKE UP FOLKS AND BEFORE WE DECIDE TO GIVE UP OVER THERE, TRY WALKING EVERYWHERE FOR A MONTH, OR RIDDING A BIKE EVERYWHERE.

AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T MIND PERSONALLY DOING THIS AND ++++IF+++++ YOU ARE IN A POSITION TO PERSONALLY DO THIS, OUR AIRLINES, BUSES, SUBWAYS, MILITARY AND HEATING SUPPLIES CURRENTLY REQUIRE OIL.

WHEN WE THREATENED TO BLOCKADE JAPAN MONTHS BEFORE THEIR ATTACK ON PEARL IN 1941, THEY ATTACKED TO PRESERVE THEIR ACCESS TO NATURAL RESOURCES ELSEWHERE.

IN WORLD DEMOCRACIES, OIL AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES CAN BE BOUGHT AND SOLD -- IT IS THE DEMOCRATIC WAY -- BUT WHEN ZEALOTS AND ESPECIALLY ALLEGEDLY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS CONTROL TERRITORY RICH IN NATURAL RESOURCES +++++WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT +++DON'T WE !!!

So we pray, study, work AND MAKE SURE THAT NEVER HAPPENS AND IF THAT REQUIRES WAR, THEN SO BE IT.

Yo Yo, Ma man
wrote

think
therefore I am
an atheist.

I usually distrust such simple statements,
but I can find no fault with this one.

What is the difference between war in the 21th century and war in 5000 BC? As far as god is concerned, I mean?

Bgone,

"World governments are terrified that UFO revelations will cause the DISINTEGRATION of world religions. Why? Could it be, no hell means no more war?"

Well, it's not like I wouldn't put anything past certain types, but on 'UFO' stuff, well, it seems humans are still dealing with a seriously-destructive inferiority complex towards a burning bush.

As for facing the truly alien, well, I don't know if we're as ready, however eager, as we may think, anyway.

Would you want to be the one to flip that match into a powder magazine?

Making the *big assumption* there were something like that going on, here's a little thought experiment: Any such creatures could, literally, be almost anything. *Presumably* tool-users of some kind, and good at it, too. But, maybe not. It's a big multiverse. For them to have similar consciousness, (enough to *actually* just drop on in and communicate,) they'd likely have to occupy a similar ecological niche to our own. Even then, they may have entirely different concepts of what they're seeing, from us.

But assuming similar niches, you'd have to presume one of a few motives: pure science, in which case they may not be in a hurry to disturb what they're looking at, ...pure need or greed, (...in which case there would have to be some reason for not rolling in visibly to, say, conquer or trade for whatever the heck interstellar travelers could possibly want from us:) ...or cause they're actually looking for friends and don't want to freak us out into destructive situations that wouldn't make good (surviving) friends of us.

It'd take a pretty specific set of circumstances to assume we'd be getting direct communication of the kind a government *could* (or needed to) hide. Probably even *more* specific circumstances to make it such it'd be for nefarious motives.

Now.

Why the Hec is Paganplace talking about *aliens* here?

Cause, some of these 'conspiracy' ideas only show how much we're willing to believe authority can show us about reality.

If we want an end to war, (or to know about any aliens in the NSA parking garage,) probably the first step is not only showing we're ready, but *being* ready.

How would you know a tool to end a war, or an alien, or a spirit, or the Gods, for that matter, if you *saw* one, ...if your expectation was it must take one kind of form, that one authority or another would or could tell you, or *be,* particularly if it's one of the 'authorities' that have become weapons and wars, themselves?

The people have to lead, on this one.

That's one reason why I think we should be *using* American ideals: of liberty, equality, freedom of conscience, and informed consent,

Not *gutting them* to 'defend the faith.'

Not just demanding, 'Pass the Lord and Praise The Ammunition."

The Iraq thing, people were so fixated on whether or not it was a 'just war' that they ended up fighting people who want *peace* in order to find new *justifications,* not just for the wars, but for the lies that got us there in the first place

I say, look at it. It's just war.

And that's certainly some idea of 'Hell.'

I dunno about theocrats, but I think I'm about *ready* to see some peace.

I think we should have been willing to risk and spend at least as much on that as we do on wars we can't *really* justify.

Maybe what's really been going on is people fighting wars to *feel* 'justified' by those authorities, and not the other way around.

Maybe instead of wanting aliens to destroy someone's religious illusions, we could try sending out a planetary distress call for some mediators. That might at least shame some of our religious leaders into admitting that a certain game plan ain't working. :)

I mean, could you imagine, if like ...the world were to all attempt to, like, *broadcast into the unknown in some way* something to the effect of, "Help, we can't handle our sh**!"

What might any such mediators look like?
What would we look like to them?

Could we handle *that* sh**?
Or would it become more of the same.

Just a thought-experiment. :)

Rudiger - I'm quite sure Hitchens doesn't say "people are religious because they are stupid."

Nor have I seen a claim that religion is a "deep feature of life shared by 99.99% of humanity."

Could you provide sources for your information? If not, could you retract your statements?

Thanks.

does the colossal failure of humanity that is war cause loss of faith, or increase faith? do you blame god and reject religion for the disappointment with the world & life seen in war, or does religion comfort you because of that disappointment?

it's the most simplistic thing in the world to say people are religious b/c they are stupid (a la hitchens). people are religious b/c life is disappointing, frustrating, and sad. if you can't sympathize w/that fact, then religion, a deep feature of life shared by 99.99% of humanity, will be just "stupid." not a very useful category of understanding for those who claim to "think".

and i say this is as a committed materialist.

Reporters -- the convenient Christain

Faith is just the willing to accept that which can not be fully known. It is funny that folks say Bush has faith, when almost every religion said/says what he is doing in Iraq is immoral -- even his Methodist religion!!! Just look at the numbers -- somewhere around 100k Iraq citizens dead, over 800k in Syria and an equal number in Jordan. How can anyone put his "faith" in a positive light given the stark facts??? It is not defensible at this time. The convenient Christan's are in charge. Using faith to justify immoral actions is amazing and folks that repeat this lie are a strange lot.

I think
therefore I am
an atheist.

The Bishop has pretty much nothing new today so he pulls out his favorite homilies and strings them together into something that means nothing. Just a lot of hot air sprinkled with familiar stock material so as to be PC.

Bishop Chane, I have no idea what this means, "War calls people of faith to address their failure as a Holy creation and to repent or "turn around" behavior that demeans the very nature of creation" and I bet you don't either.

I also bet you make perfect sense when you're talking on subjects you know something about and feel confident on.

I swear, even when I was a believing Christian, I would not have known what it meant to be a "failure as a Holy creation?"

I think clergy should avoid making such vague assertions. If you don't know what to say, don't obfuscate. Keep it simple.

To frame my perspective, I am an independent when it comes to religion. I take what I find useful from each teaching and try to apply it and live it. Personally the religious dogma doesn’t work for me but it does for many. If it weren’t for religion I wonder what would have become of King, Gandhi, Mother Teresa, and Desmond Tutu?

Just because a few abuse religion doesn’t mean religion is inherently bad.

In America where I hold the “religious” accountable is in times of war. Broad brush here but the ‘true’ teaching of religions is peace and love. I don’t want to discuss violent text in each religion because there is plenty in most (every?) religion. But the core teaching is love and peace.

If you truly believe in the teaching of you religion/faith how can you support any decision to go to war? On an individual level why does any soldier go to war if they truly understand their religion? If there is anyone in the military on these posts I would love to hear from them in order to better understand.

Each individual makes their own choices, including a soldier, but we don’t make it easy for them.

To sacrifice your life for someone else as a soldier does is noble. The bravery, commitment and sacrifice of the soldier and their families is phenomenal. The fact that we as a society push them into war is sad. If we could direct that dedication, sacrifice and commitment to peaceful means we could change the world.

I first heard of this in Wayne Dyer’s Power of Intension, it was the idea of no more soldiers. What if people refused to fight? What if the religious organizations (and the public) protested more? What if we do not back those who take us into war?

We are extremely fortunate in America to have the freedom of speech, religion and assembly. We can make these kinds of statements. Inaction is in and of itself an action, or at least a choice. In other countries they can not. It seems it is up to us to lead the way.

War is our reminder that we as a society have failed to live up to the grandest version of who we think we are. I don’t think it so much about keeping faith as a call to demonstrate your faith in a time of war.

To quote Gandhi “There is no way to peace, peace is the way”.

The Habit of Faith is a Bad Habit

If one gets in the habit of believing what your Church leader tells you the scripture means, because you think it is a good thing to "have faith"

one tends to get in the habit of believing what other "authorities" - like Presidents of the United States - tell you, because it is a "good thing" to have faith in our leaders.

Having faith in our leaders
Gets Our Young People Killed

when our Faith extends to the belief that
War will solve our problems.

Having Faith is a destructive habit.
It is not just War that leaders lie about.
The first motivation of a leader
whether he is
The President,
the Pope
or the Prophet of the Mormon Church

is staying in power and keeping the ship of State/God running on an even keel (which takes money, the REAL God).

Betty.

You have it wrong in one particular context.

It isn't generic human "faith" that is the problem, it is what they have "faith" in that is the core of the issue.

Most people worship and have faith only in money. Money is at the root of all these evils. Religion is simply the scapegoat and cloak/mirror to induce the walking dead masses to do the evil vipers and snakes bidding.

Faith in Jesus Christ the true God is fine. He teaches us what we should do, and what we should not do.

Jesus Christ' taught love and tolerance even to the enemies of humanity (those of the Synagogue of Satan).

What is the beginning of understanding? If it is not to have evil?

Henry James, the 19 of 9/11 had a 70 year old virgin male to be shared by all waiting for them. He's a gift from the 250 Marines that died in Lebanon, 1982 when a jihad drove a truck load of HE into their barracks.

Somewhere, I think the last page or thereabouts, http://www.hoax-buster.org has an atrist's conception of what the Jews did/are-doing to Hitler.

World governments are terrified that UFO revelations will cause the DISINTEGRATION of world religions. Why? Could it be, no hell means no more war?

The First Thing We Should Learn from War

is to
Lose Our Faith.

Faith is the tool our leaders use

to make us REady to Kill and Die for God and Country. Get it? God and Country.

When Will They Ever Learn?
When Will They Ever Learn?

We thought Pete Seeger was trite and romantic when he intoned these words.

But the very fact that WAPO sponsors this question -
how can you keep your Faith during war -

shows that we still don't get it.

The FiR

Bishop, there's a move afoot to get the pope to return to Mexico and Peru, other Latin American countries as well, the gold taken by the Conquistadors. A lot, perhaps most of it is now in churches, gifted to God to atone for sins.

The British prirate Drake and other noblemen of the high seas brought a heaping helping of it to England. I wonder if you can see the blood stains of the rightful owners of that gold on the chalice as you concecrate it, transmut the wine into the blood of Jesus?

Perhaps the Church of England and the Queen, she's got a bit of it too, could be gracious and return it to it's rightful owners or was it properly laundried, the blood of the innocents washed away before the church got it?

War Means
You Can KILL with Immunity
AND
You can Die with Immunity

We know that the 19 9/11 hijackers were convinced that they were going straight to paradise, with 70 virgins waiting for each of them.

Seven times Seventy.
Nineteen times Seventy.

Belief in the fantasy of God is not just debilitating in terms of seeing what is actually happening on this earth (evolution, etc)

Faith in God will Get you Killed
If you believe what your leaders tell you.
And they ALL tell you:
God is On our Side
(and the other guys are goin to Hell).

"Lock and load. Now send them to hell!" has been said ever since there's been firearms. The relationship between religiona and war is unmistakable. And...religion is all about hell.

Hell is where the enemy dead go. Otherwise they go to the next world and wait for their killers. Without hell there can be no war.

Hell was invented by the first king, Pharaoh who used it to convince his soldiers they could kill with immunity, the ones they killed, God, Pharaoh would cast into hell while they were in route to the next world. But that is not original hell.

At the battle of the Little Big Horn the Sioux demonstrated hell of the first type, the forever wound, when they hacked up the bodies of the fallen 7th calvary. Of cours Jesus agrees with the Sioux, "better to enter life missing a part of your body than have it all cast into fiery hell." The Sioux said that the 7th would enter life missing a lot of body parts, not capable of retaliation being the big idea.

http://www.hoax-buster.org has the history of hell and it's relationship to war. Hell is the primary hoax of the Bible and it's the primnary justification for the taking of human life by humans, what war is all about down in the trenches.

What Nonsense

ALL the evidence directly contradicts the fantasies of of this writer.

Human Nature, which we are admonished to "have faith in" by the writer, leads humans into wars with astonishing regularity.

And the God that humans invent to justify their rapaciousness and barbarity is so clearly a tawdry justification that one should be embarrassed to share a faith system that has been such a regular justifier of genocide and imperialism, going back to the "Old Testament."

War tells us that Man invents God to justify their unjustifiable actions.

No Secular Humanist ever started a war (and don't try to tell us that Hitler and Stalin were Secular Humanists: look up the definition and use your language skills).

But to take anothers life in the name of "democracy" and "freedom" is perfectly fine.

What a joke.

Humanity is mad.