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The sacred assignment of a true religious teacher is to tell, tell, and tell. True Christians leader are to follow Jesus’ example and tell the truth regarding Jehovah God’s purpose and standards.

1Peter 2: 21-22: “In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely. He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.”

Jesus denounced the religious leaders of his day because they were hypocrites and failed to live up to their role as true religious leaders.

John 8:44-47: “ YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me. Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God.”
In favor of popular morality, many churches have changed their message. Priests and preachers have given up teaching that God requires obedience. Instead, many teach that each individual must decide for himself what is right and what is wrong. Trying to gain popularity, some religious leaders claim that God accepts you no matter how you live. Such teaching calls to mind what the Bible foretold: “There will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled.”—2 Timothy 4:3
What does the Bible teach? It plainly states: “Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men . . . will inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10)
These religious frauds are also described as “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.” The Bible goes on to say: “Their end shall be according to their works.” (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
Their works include “loose conduct,” which is a brazen disregard for high moral principles. (2 Peter 2:1-3, 12-14)
An increasing number of religious leaders and their followers adopt—or at least condone—unchristian practices, such as homosexuality and sex outside of marriage. Please take a moment to compare these widely accepted views and lifestyles with what the Bible states at Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26, 27; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; Hebrews 13:4; and Jude 7.
Christians should heed the apostle John’s words not to take our religious beliefs lightly or for granted. “Do not believe every inspired expression,” he warns, “but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.”—1 John 4:1.
Genuine Christians are not influenced by the ebb and flow of popular views but cling firmly to Bible truth. Wrote the apostle Paul: “This is what I continue praying, that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment.”—Philippians 1:9.

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Sin is the issue when it comes to God and homosexuality. We are charged to "go and sin no more." Love is the issue when it comes to human beings in this I believe Christ was clear we are to "love our neighbor as ourself". We can love the sinner and hate the sin. Salvation is the work of God we can demonstrate our connection to Christ by how we love. Judgment is the work of God; I say let God do His work our responsibility is to participate by showing love. After everything else has passed away love will still remain!

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I have, for the first time, reviewed the "On Faith" feature of the combined Washington Post/Newseek. Very nicely done and clearly thought-provoking. No doubt, I will add my "2 cents" at some point(s) in the future.

Web page-wise, I would like to suggest to the page designer that the banner that intersects the commentary, starting with the words "On Faith is an interactive... , etc." manages to interfere with the lead paragraph in almost every expert comment. Can this banner be moved elsewhere? Oh yes, I use the IE7 rendering engine.

Otherwise, nicely designed and worth the effort to read. Thank you.

On the subject of homosexuality, I am in agreement with those that feel that blanket orthodoxy which hews to a theology of exclusion is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for those who practice it. History is replete with examples of similar positions, all of which have been relegated to "been there, done that, doesn't work". Naturally, extreme positions are not the exclusive property of the religiously ultra-conservative. Heterosexuals and homesexuals alike can fall into that irrational trap. Selective use of scripture ignores the fact that the "whole is more than the sum of its parts".

Thoughtful balance and equanimity are the main paths out of fallacious and hurtful thinking. Whole humans should not solely be governed by their sexual organs or preferences. Life is beautiful when it ascends.

I mean, when it comes down to it, too many Christians feel that love and sex insist in finite quantities and are dangerous and illicit. :) They treat them like 'drugs' ...to be scorned, controlled, and against which people are essentially -helpless.

No wonder they have it on the brain so much, even when they can't live up to the very standards they believe everyone *else* must live by.

The repression routinely turns to senses of entitlement and even *violence* because they believe it's more noble to make a big deal about it, over which...

Someone's gotta suffer. Usually someone else.

They think gay people just scrump like bonoboes, all the time.

Cause that's what they're taught *they* would do if they just ...let go of what tells them that.

They're taught to feel they live on a precipice of Hell, and all these ritual things they can do to not fall in.

Sex and sexuality become, to them, other things than they really are.

They hurt, and they're desperate to put that hurt *somewhere.*

Someone can be as straight as the day is long, and they're *still* taught that gayness is a threat to their souls...

So they try to batter it away.

Even if the targets are real people and real lives... People who probably have their stuff together a lot more than they do.

Yeah, Lepi:

"When a man introduces these people to his wife, do ther immediately imagine the two of them going at each other like bunnies in heat? I doubt it."

If they do that, (or try to vote, or petition the government for redress of grievances) at least no one says that's what they're thinking.

" So why, when a man introduces his husband, or a woman her wife, do they automatically picture the two of them having sex? Is that really all marriage is to them? How sad - they're missing out on the best parts."

Pretty much.

Actually, having been raised Catholic, I'm well aware just how much they teach that anyone that doesn't deny and flagellate themselves of anything now Christian ...is obviously being 'tempted' if not 'overwhelmed' by (illicit and unfair) fun and this Thing they make *sex* into, so people who aren't Christian, of course, totally couldn't *possibly* be in it for or be defined by anything *but* the sex they've pretty much made a career of repressing and channeling politically.

Kinda like when they come up to you, as someone in a lesbian partnership, "Oh, I *totally* love the sinner, but hate the *sin,* cause as women you obviously have something to do with the anal sex I seem to have dragged into the matter immediately, and saying I may convert this fixation to violence according to the Bible gives me a sense of power despite my *constant sexual frustration... as long as I hurt someone over it...."

Etc, etc, etc.

They say, "Well, if not for threats of Hell, I'd do whatever horrible thing I wanted to!"

It's like.

You do that anyway when you drink.

It's like, "Imagine there's a world you'd actually want to live in. Imagine sex was good and sacred and celebratory and respectful, not a 'forbidden fruit' you fetishize. Imagine people were people and actually cared about each other... Imagine... 'God' didn't make a 'mistake' when they made you.

Imagine the expectations are different.

Imagine you aren't supposed to be 'virtuously-repressed' in a world of 'irresistible temptation.'

Imagine if sex was just sex.

Would you behave like a frat boy all your life?

Or would you have better things to do?

To Arminius and the rest of the world: Hang in there, remember He hung in there for US, all of us, "Father forgive them", no asterick. Also the phrase, "Like a thief in the night", that can refer to an individual's life or the life of humanity, think about it. Be ready, take care. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

"God against man. Man against God. Man against nature. Nature against man. Nature against God. God against nature. Very funny religion!"

PP:

**It's people like *you* always thinking about sex acts when queer people talk about being human beings who have spirituality and love for each other, worries about our future, and a need for civil justice.**

I think that's the part of homophobia that I find most laughable and at the same time extremely disturbing.

When a man introduces these people to his wife, do ther immediately imagine the two of them going at each other like bunnies in heat? I doubt it. So why, when a man introduces his husband, or a woman her wife, do they automatically picture the two of them having sex? Is that really all marriage is to them? How sad - they're missing out on the best parts.

I'll also add, JJ.

It's people like *you* always thinking about sex acts when queer people talk about being human beings who have spirituality and love for each other, worries about our future, and a need for civil justice.

Of course, we're 'Anti-Christian' for saying we're so, but you're the ones using slurs and coarse language.

You know, JJ.

Just cause "fagarino" isn't a word caught by the filters, doesn't mean it's not use of a slur.

Gonna have to report that.

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Thomas Baum,

I am not sure about your comment about "the time is coming...", but I agree completely with everything else you say. Keep it coming.

God bless!

To Rob Adams and the rest of the world: Thank You and remember we are all in this together and I do mean all just like God means all when He says it. One of the things that kind of gets me is that Jesus not only told us to call God the Father, Dad, but He also said that if you had the bestest Father in the world that God the Father, Dad, was infinitely better, I wonder how can some of these people twist God into a being such as they think? I believe part of the answer is that they know His Name but that is about all that they know about Him. Take care. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thomas Baum.

You may be my favorite Christian :)

Keep trumpeting your message...you've got it right.

Peace.

"Should America, a Nation that is a REPUBLIC, not a Democratic Government..."

This is a Democratic Republic! Not a democracy, not a republic...a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, based on your remedial writing skills, that you are foreign and not retarded...take a citizenship class before you spew sewage like that and back it up with nonsense.

Ya Ya!

Jesus's agenda was LOVE and considering that God is Love then His agenda was and is God Himself. I see a reference to cheap grace, well guess what it is not cheap, it is free. God is showering His Grace on all, regardless of religious affiliations or lack thereof but what do you do with it? Some people hoard it and it stagnates, some it just leaks out of and others let it flow thru them, which one might you be? If God was anything like some people that call themselves christians present Him to be, you would have to be pretty hard-hearted and cold-blooded to be thankful to something like that. Some people seem to think that the bible is God, well it isn't but it can but won't necessarily lead you to God. "I desire mercy, not sacrifice", sound familiar? "Judge not lest ye be judged", sound familiar? "The measure you judge with will be the measure that you are judged with", sound familiar? "These are hard sayings", this is one of the things that the original apostles said, at least they got that much. Knowing God's Name is only knowing God's Name even the demons know that. By the way, in the bible it says that the Word became Flesh, personally I would say that refers to Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, not to the bible since that did not become a human being, what do you people that worship the bible think of that? God's Plan is for all of His children to be in the Kingdom even though that upsets a lot of people that call themselves christians. The time is coming when a lot of people are in for a rude awakening, be ready. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Midwestnorwegian & Roger - BUT what you 2 are accusing John Chayne of, YOU are yourself doing. You are picking YOUR parts of the scripture and using them to push YOUR agenda of what YOU believe. The biggest problem that I see is that you are then trying to force others to believe what you believe - because you think it is right.

Sex, like belief is a very private issue. The gay persons that I know do not trot their sex life out on public view. I know 2 separate male partnerships who have been in committed monogamous relationships for many years. One of the partners in one of the relationships had a mild stroke this month. YOU know what? The partner felt the same way as my heterosexual friends partners felt when their partner had a stroke. I know at least 2 female relationships that have likewise been together as couples for many years. Some of the female relationships have children. They live their lives as committed people who only want the best for their children and their partners. THEY ARE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ~ they do not ask for rights that no one else has ~ just the same rights as everyone else. The problem is that you equate love with sex and sex is only a small portion of the relationship in a committed partnership.

What it basically comes down to are human rights, and it comes down to what you believe. It comes down to whether you treat others as human beings or as second class. It comes down to treating others as you would want to be treated yourself - and to putting yourself in someone else's position. As others here have pointed out, the Bible has been used by well meaning people in the past (and in some places probably still is) to keep segregation from taking place; to keep whites and blacks from marrying; to justify the owning of another human being; to justify killing other human beings; and to keep women in their place. White people and black people now marry, have children and raise families. Their families are no different from yours or mine.

It always reminds me of a verse by Alice Walker:
"Love is not concerned
with whom you pray
or where you slept
the night you ran away from home.
Love is concerned
that the beating of your heart
should kill no one."

May you all have peace the rest of your days and may God in his mercy soften your hearts toward your fellow human beings.

I believe Mr. Chane is being rather disingenuous here. He says we are spending too much time on this but it is he and his ilk who are pushing this agenda and FORCING the church to self destruction. He seems to say that if we are spending too much time on this as a church, then it is the fault of those of us who believe in the Word of God - for not just rolling over.

"If you pick and choose what you believe from the Word of God, then it is not God that you believe in, but yourself" - St. Augustine.

Why doesn't the bishop just suggest that we remove those portions of the Holy Scripture that he doesn't think are appropriate. Or publish a revised edition of the Holy Scriptures that matches his beliefts.

Why doesn't the bishop just suggest that we remove those portions of the Holy Scripture that he doesn't think are appropriate. Or publish a revised edition of the Holy Scriptures that matches his beliefts.

Question for Robroy - from one who goes to a church that IS Unitarian Universalist. Why is it drivel when it does not fit your specific plan for salvation? If a person is in a continent that does not know of your JESUS, your GOD and no one ever tells them, do they die a sinner? Do they go to hell? What about young children who die without ever hearing your PLAN? Why is it that YOU seem to be able to set yourself up as judge, jury and prosecutor?

Do you know that many of the founding fathers - whom you quote as founding America on Christian values - were Unitarian or Universalist? So, who speaks drivel?

Why is it that SEX is the only thing that you have a problem with? When I meet someone, I don't think of their sex life. Whom they love and how they have sex or don't have sex or how many times a week they have sex - falls in the category of too much information! What I want to know is the content of their character - do they lie? Do they cheat? Do they steal? How do they treat their neighbor? How do they treat me as an individual?

So, why is it OK to be divorced but not homosexual? Why do you not keep up the dietary laws but find all the ones about sex fall into your "abomination category?" When you meet a heterosexual couple, do you wonder about their sex life? Probably not. So why is a gay person's sex life any different?

I don't want to hear - the Bible says - I want real answers. The Bible like any other book can be cherry picked and is all the time. If you believe that the Bible is a blueprint for how to live your life - then why do you forget all the other rules in Leviticus and say it's OK they are out of step with modern times - but this one thing you follow? Why is it that all the really heinous sins have to do with SEX? What a hangup.

I do not mean to denigrate you or your religion. I am sure that you are a decent person and that you care for others and practice Christianity in the way you see fit. I just think these are things that you should think about b4 you denigrate someone else and their choice of what they believe.

P.S. I Love You All! Ya Ya!

Umm, Yeah. Ditto to that, JJ, I don't have to be 'Biblically moral,' being a *Pagan.* My morality is much more consistent than that... Consistent with my life, and the lives of other people, and science, and, I hope, compassion and respect for others.

It's certainly not a 'rulebook' someone else waves at me as an excuse to be nasty to me.

It's not like people saying about me and anyone else not-professing-to-be-straight: "How can these good people really be awful people cause the Bible says they must be awful people?"

It doesn't help to claim to take your stuff from five major religions if you hold the pettiest and worst things from any of them to call people the names you have.

Frankly, that's no different from the other Bible-beaters.

And it really makes me sick at the heart to hear such *nast* coming from the so-called 'faithful.'

I had thought better of you, JJ.

"Att: Butterfly & PaganPlace, et al Lost Goddess Lovers of Clits & Penis's, It is Impossible , in Nature, to humately have Both a Pre-Apocalyptic Religion based on All Five Major Infixus Books of the World & still Be gay at the same Time as if natural!

What G-d do you have, that allows you to be both gay & biblically moral? "

JJ: Pagans don't follow the bible. Your anger is misplaced and unwarranted. Nature abounds with sexual diversity, as is discussed on other threads. We look to Nature, Mother Earth, and our own inner experiences, not any book, for guidance, and our common sense for our morality.

I am very disappointed in you. I saw so much good in what you say.. up until you say you want to round up all the gays and ship them somewhere. It really saddens me that you are just as hateful as most others on these threads.

And I'm sure you have kinds of things to be doing with all that 'super-specialness' of yours, Robroy....

.....

Umm... Still waiting....

The "painful failure" is John Chane, whose unitarian drivel, "salt that has lost its flavor", transformation of the church to a leftist PAC has resulted in the drop of attendance (active members) in his diocese by over 10% in the past decade in a time when the population of the area has exploded. Leaders like Chane have brought the church to death's door. They pander "cheap grace" to use the ideas of Bonhoeffer, preaching forgiveness without repentance and the way of cross. They freely give away the sacred to those who don't ask for it resulting in derision and debasement of the church.

"Should America, a Nation that is a REPUBLIC, not a Democratic Government, change The "LAW(s)" or Clauses Pertaining To The "HOLY" Cosmic Marriage, never from Biblical, Nor from Gays, between a MAN & WOMAN should be Changed, all so that Men Can Legal Love their Man???!"

In short, *yes.*

Though, actually, the Republic explicitly does *not* say anything about what marriages are 'holy.'

All it in fact says about us as people as that we are *all* created equal, and such rights are not explicitly accorded to the Federal government or to the states in these matters in fact devolve right to the individual... Especially in terms of the contents of one's conscience... To one's Gods-given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, without 'compelling state interest' to abridge these rights.

Your, or anyone else's religious beliefs about heterosexuality do not qualify. These are religious beliefs you are entitled to hold *as an individual,* (in your case, this is very appropriate) .....but *not* as a *mob,* no matter how "sanctified" you believe that opinion is.

Simply put, in these matters, our Republic is meant to *protect* the individual rights in these matters, not *restrict* them just because a 'majority' might decide they'd like to hurt a minority.

Everyone in America but you could vote to outlaw Eclatianism, JJ.

It'd still be Unconstitutional.

*That.* is our Republic.

Not what you're spouting.

JJ:

**Should America, a Nation that is a REPUBLIC, not a Democratic Government, change The "LAW(s)" or Clauses Pertaining To The "HOLY" Cosmic Marriage, never from Biblical, Nor from Gays, between a MAN & WOMAN should be Changed, all so that Men Can Legal Love their Man???!**

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! and just so ther's no confusion or possible ambiguity: YES!

**Two "virgin" Lesbian' making Out like a Man & Woman is Kosher!**

Yet another man into girl-on-girl fantasies. Yawn. What is ti with you men and lesbian porn? Do yoou really imagine yourself in the picture? Or is it just twice the T & A for you to ogle?

**If one or the Other is Not a Virgin, then that who is not virgin will be tested for any AIDS plus Sexually transmitted disease or pathogens. If The Non Virgin Passes Muster then The Two (One Virgin & other Clean Non-Virgin) can Legally Marry & enjoy an "almost" Marriage between a Real Man & Woman Civil Law(s) protections & recognitions, but on a State Level only, & never on a Federal Level!.**

A virginity test for marriage? Didn;t that go out with the Middle Ages? And why shouldn't same-sex marriages in one state be valid nation-wide? And why shouldn's same-sex married couples receive the same federal benfits as opposite-sex marrried couples? Give me one logical, objective, rational reason - just one. "Because I think it's icky" doesn't count. Neither does "because my god thinks it's icky."

**half gays & quarter Gays too!**

WTF are those?

Your whole marriage "plan" is truly warped, man. Same-sex marriage should be on equal legal footing with opposite-sex marraige. Period. End of sentence.

And, JJ, I'll add, the concept of a 'holy union' ...between the Lord and Lady, certainly exists in Wicca. It's a central metaphor of some of our most sacred rites.

It does not follow from this, to us, that the Gods have 'only straight kids.'

Obviously, that's not the case, for one thing.

For another, it does not grant 'sanctity' to this for people to go oppressing others for not *imitiating* it as if breeding were the only important thing for humans to do in the first place.

Life's bigger than that.

Much bigger.

JJ.

You don't get to rule.

Hmm, inapporiate proof texting of scripture? Let's see what the Apostle Paul has to say about it and these are only a few of the many verses against this practice. Furthermore, there are many characteristic to the nature of God. God is Love but God is also Holy. Be Holy as I am Holy. Sin cannot exists in the presence of God. It's sad that Holiness is no longer preached or practiced in the churches today.

Rom 1:27-29
7 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.
Cor 6:9-11

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

John 12:25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Rev 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
NIV

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Finally the attitude of the church should be as in Paul's comment:

1 Cor 10:32-33
2 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God- 33 even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

Cor 8:9-10
Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 11 So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

NIV

Here, you have Bishops that will divide if not destroy the Anglican Church so that they can indulge in their own sinful practices. What selfishness!

But then, we know about Satan's henchmen:

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
NIV

All one has to do is read and research the doctrines and teachings of the Early Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles and Disciples of Christ themselves to know such behavior is aborrent to Christian teaching and theology.

Hmm, inappopriate proof texting of scripture? Let's see what the Apostle Paul has to say about it and these are only a few of the many verses against this practice. Furthermore, there are many characteristic to the nature of God. God is Love but God is also Holy. Be Holy as I am Holy. Sin cannot exists in the presence of God. It's sad that Holiness is no longer preached or practiced in the churches today.

Rom 1:27-29
7 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.
Cor 6:9-11

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

John 12:25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Rev 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
NIV

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Finally the attitude of the church should be as in Paul's comment:

1 Cor 10:32-33
2 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God- 33 even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

Cor 8:9-10
Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 11 So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

NIV

Here, you have Bishops that will divide if not destroy the Anglican Church so that they can indulge in their own sinful practices. What selfishness!

But then, we know about Satan's henchmen:

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
NIV

All one has to do is read and research the doctrines and teachings of the Early Church Fathers who were taught by the Apostles and Disciples of Christ themselves to know such behavior is aborrent to Christian teaching and theology.

And, too, JJ: How does this square?

You say:

"Vote With Your brains, not sexual Organs!"

Yet all you think there is to gay people ...as voters, even, is:

"For a Man doing a man, under the fridiac influence of the chemical "THC", with penis in a mans mouth or Annus is not LOVE, but fantacy. Which is the same as saying , Jesus is G-d which is fantacy, but reality is LOVE! see what I see?"

No, actually, I don't see.

a) I'm a girl, and religious fanatic men are always trying to gross men out about what they seem to think gays constantly do...

(even if we're girls, ...do you think we get a break even in *your* world and agenda where you imagine there's nothing to gay people and their loves and lives but acts you *can't stop imagining?* )

b) You speak of a grand revelation of light and relations subject to the Shoah, but you use slurs against another minority the Nazis exterminated as best they could, while claiming access to great illumination.

This isn't about Light, Jacob.

Just cause you see Light doesn't mean everything that crosses your brain is the will of the Universe.

It's about *you.*

Wake up.

-World-View.

Lep,

Oh, hell and damnation! JJ sure as hell doesn't know what he's missing, and you are getting me on the verge of making comments to you that will get me blackballed from this group! I love your sense of humor.

I gave up on JJ a long time ago, and skip his posts. He needs to take his meds.

Eh, Lepi. If JJ had something, he's lost it.

"Att: P A G A N P, et al;

All Pagan & Wiccan Systems are Pre-Apocalyptic Ritual Systems too. They are Just as inferior & dangerous as All so called Abrahamic & Vedic/Dharmic Ritual Systems! All have & Still continue to have "Sodom & Gommorrah" Fingerprints on the Wall or Ritual Blood on Their Hands."

JJ, especially since you think the story of Sodom is about the sexual orientation of the mob that, if 'gay' was somehow after sexless angels, to be appeased by the offering of virgin daughters...

This was not about sexuality, even for a God that nukes cities, (if you're gonna nuke one, why not nuke another without explanation?)

...It was about egregious violations of the rules of hospitality.

Something a Pagan can understand easily enough, apart from the nuking.

As for your idea of 'superior,' I'm afraid that whatever your visions have brought you to, by any standard, is in fact...

Inferior.

So JJ, I guess if you're opposed to a penis in a mouth, you've never asked your wife to fellate you? Pity - you don't know what you're missing.

The Spirit of God says, you have the capacity for greatness! Where people will look at you and say, what is going on here? How did this happen? A new idea is coming to you, an idea of something you have never done before. America, I have seen your need to help the poor, and this is where the greatest harvest will come! As one generation comes to an end a new generation arises! This new movement will catch My hunger for the needy! They will catch My fire for the media. They will catch My glory for intercession!

Even those who don't believe will come forward and say we have entered the new power movement for the poor and the blind, signs and wonders are coming together like never before. When you pursue the face of God it will lead you to Christ and the Cross, Christ and the Resurrection. America this is the generation that will seek the heart of God. Like the Biblical hero's of the Bible, David, Daniel, Esther, Mary, Samuel, and Elijah! For them I will give them the nations, says the Lord.

Are you ready for the re-sensitizing of the church? Are you ready for the 180 turnaround of the media? For the Spirit of God is raising up an amazing army for the media!

This generation will release the angelic hosts of nations and cities and power from the air. Even though this generation has grown up with pollution all over because of sin, they will hide God's word in their hearts so that they will not sin against Me.

Jacob:

You've turned mean all of a sudden. What's wrong with you?

Good points.

Except one:

Celibacy is a gift from God?

Ever try to be celibate after having sex for awhile? Yea........gift my a$$. Ever seen 40 days and 40 nights? Right there baby. Perfect example.

What more need be said than, amen.