John Bryson Chane
Episcopal Bishop of Washington

John Bryson Chane

Chane is the eighth Episcopal Bishop of Washington, a diocese of 93 congregations and about 45,000 church members in the District of Columbia and Maryland.

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Christ Calls Us To Try

Responding to alleviate suffering poverty, disease, homelessness, natural disasters, and the demeaning of the human condition by internal or external forces is a requirement that is directed to the broad Christian Community through the core teachings of Jesus.

Jesus was acutely aware that the poor would always be with us but that did not mean that we should not engage in the hard work of ending poverty.

Churches by themselves or broad Christian denominations globally cannot end such conditions that demean, demoralize and destroy the creatures of God....but we can be the "weavers" that bring faith-based organizations, non-profits, the corporate sector and government agencies worldwide together to address, relieve and possibly alleviate such conditions.

Dangers inherent in such efforts however are that large, unaffiliated churches and even huge traditional denominations such as the Roman Catholic Church and Anglican Communion would see such aid, support and relief as a way of gaining converts in exchange for services rendered.

By John Bryson Chane  |  December 12, 2007; 8:01 AM ET Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati  
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REMEMBER: Voting for HilLlary Clinton, is same as re-Voting for Prez B. Clinton.

This is 'illegal' , aka PROXY President by Nepotism! Presidential 'Term-Limits' are being violated. Do not be Stupid! The Communist have infiltrated Sweet Sweet U.S.A's Government of 'THE PEOPLE!

So, Please do not vote for 'Hillary & Bill Clinton! Thank You!

IMPORTANT , Sweet Sweet America:

A Russian Communist Conspiracy in Sweet Sweet America "i" now EXPOSED!

HARK Humates of America!:

BEWARE:

Senator 'Chuck Schumer' (of N.Y., a 'Senior Senator) is been "BRIBED' by the RUSSIAN-INTERNATIONAL-MAFIA! Example:

He, Mr. Schumer et al, via "L*U*K OIL" got money from them, (via ex-'GETTY gas station(s) moguls, now turned "Russian Mafia Government Front" as Owners in America. Please call FBI & CIA!] and of Which "Chucky-Boy' Senator SCHUMER promoted , knowingly in such a great 'COMMY' Conspiracy!

Forgive me, but it is true!!!!!!!!!!

ATT: You get pais per "CLICK' , then pay 'US' [free Spirited Bloggers] for Stealing OUR ideas/Writings!

Note: You must Post [ALL & not SENSORED] or repost {hours of WORK (free, but NO more!) thinking & typing) what You-Failed to post. There was No Cuseses. Everything was acoording to 'YOUR' rules, not mine.

Yes, 34,000 people a year in AMERICA , the sweet, comit Suicide. So Better they Volunteer for Army & die Protecting the great REPUBLIC & FEDERATION of "Space-Ship" Planet EARTH against SuperStupidStitious Pre-Apocalyptic BIBLIO, QURANO, GEETAO, MANIACS.

WE "i"nellegent "i"ntellectuals "i"ndividuals. aka, HUMATES (not Humans, as JOKTANIAN, not PELEGIAN,Sporades (Wom) & Mavorites (Man)) Live on space-Ship Earth! aka S.S. GAIA, S.S. GEOID, S.S. TELLUSng Something instead!!

So please post ALL that you have sieved/selected & sensored! Not jus "i", but many many Bloggers!

NOTICE: "NEWS-WEEK" & WASHINGTON POST & CO, et al,;

IT is about your ten 'FACE's. not about our one honest Face's!

You will be sued , in 'Class' like, in Federal Court very very Soon!

not just "i" , but to many you say,


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VOTE:

'NO' to News-Papers Company's owning {your Kids minds future & yours too] against them owning T.V Stations & Satellite Station!

SAY: 'NO' , via F.C.C., to News Paper Company's! 'NO' Broad Casting! Say or Vote, No!

And, Say 'NO' to allowing Religious Satellite Televangelical(s) to broadcast their 'EVIL' Anti-Society Story's & Behavior's too!

Thanks, Eclati-On (nevr Off's) American Mon's & Monsa's!

Take Back your almost Hijacked Nation! Take back Sweet sweet America! Now!


December 16, 2007 10:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 16, 2007 10:20

vote: no TO monopoly VIA media & Foerigners Control:
REMEMBER: Voting for HilLlary Clinton, is same as re-Voting for Prez B. Clinton.

This is 'illegal' , aka PROXY President by Nepotism! Presidential 'Term-Limits' are being violated. Do not be Stupid! The Communist have infiltrated Sweet Sweet U.S.A's Government of 'THE PEOPLE!

So, Please do not vote for 'Hillary & Bill Clinton! Thank You!

IMPORTANT , Sweet Sweet America:

A Russian Communist Conspiracy in Sweet Sweet America "i" now EXPOSED!

HARK Humates of America!:

BEWARE:

Senator 'Chuck Schumer' (of N.Y., a 'Senior Senator) is been "BRIBED' by the RUSSIAN-INTERNATIONAL-MAFIA! Example:

He, Mr. Schumer et al, via "L*U*K OIL" got money from them, (via ex-'GETTY gas station(s) moguls, now turned "Russian Mafia Government Front" as Owners in America. Please call FBI & CIA!] and of Which "Chucky-Boy' Senator SCHUMER promoted , knowingly in such a great 'COMMY' Conspiracy!

Forgive me, but it is true!!!!!!!!!!

ATT: You get pais per "CLICK' , then pay 'US' [free Spirited Bloggers] for Stealing OUR ideas/Writings!

Note: You must Post [ALL & not SENSORED] or repost {hours of WORK (free, but NO more!) thinking & typing) what You-Failed to post. There was No Cuseses. Everything was acoording to 'YOUR' rules, not mine.

Yes, 34,000 people a year in AMERICA , the sweet, comit Suicide. So Better they Volunteer for Army & die Protecting the great REPUBLIC & FEDERATION of "Space-Ship" Planet EARTH against SuperStupidStitious Pre-Apocalyptic BIBLIO, QURANO, GEETAO, MANIACS.

WE "i"nellegent "i"ntellectuals "i"ndividuals. aka, HUMATES (not Humans, as JOKTANIAN, not PELEGIAN,Sporades (Wom) & Mavorites (Man)) Live on space-Ship Earth! aka S.S. GAIA, S.S. GEOID, S.S. TELLUSng Something instead!!

So please post ALL that you have sieved/selected & sensored! Not jus "i", but many many Bloggers!

NOTICE: "NEWS-WEEK" & WASHINGTON POST & CO, et al,;

IT is about your ten 'FACE's. not about our one honest Face's!

You will be sued , in 'Class' like, in Federal Court very very Soon!

not just "i" , but to many you say,


"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

"Your comment has been received and held for approval by the blog owner"

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VOTE:

'NO' to News-Papers Company's owning {your Kids minds future & yours too] against them owning T.V Stations & Satellite Station!

SAY: 'NO' , via F.C.C., to News Paper Company's! 'NO' Broad Casting! Say or Vote, No!

And, Say 'NO' to allowing Religious Satellite Televangelical(s) to broadcast their 'EVIL' Anti-Society Story's & Behavior's too!

Thanks, Eclati-On (nevr Off's) American Mon's & Monsa's!

Take Back your almost Hijacked Nation! Take back Sweet sweet America! Now!


December 16, 2007 10:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 16, 2007 10:31

Vote: NO to Media MONOPOLY in Sweet sweet USA! :
Now WAPO now sais {automated?}

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

December 16, 2007 10:37 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 16, 2007 10:37

Anonymous:
VOTE: Peace Love Rockn Roll nRap , Mitt_ROMNEY for Prez. Save America from Imported Religion(s)!

Thank You, HUMATE(s)!

December 16, 2007 10:43 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 16, 2007 10:43

Anonymous:
Now WAPO now sais {automated?}

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
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Please try again in a short while."


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Please try again in a short while."


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Please try again in a short while."


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"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


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Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

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"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

VOTE: Peace Love Rockn Roll nRap , Mitt_ROMNEY for Prez. Save America from Imported Religion(s)!

Thank You, HUMATE(s)!


December 16, 2007 11:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments

Posted on December 16, 2007 11:29

Anonymous:
Now WAPO now sais {automated?}

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
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"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
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"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


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Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."


"Too many comments have been submitted from you in a short period of time.
Please try again in a short while."

VOTE: Peace Love Rockn Roll nRap , Mitt_ROMNEY for Prez.

Behold: Save America from Imported Religion(s)!

Thank You, HUMATE(s)!

Posted by: Anonymous | December 16, 2007 12:18 PM
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Dear Begone:

"Anything / zero = Whatever - the divider chooses to make it."

lim (h->0) x/h tends to either +inf or -inf as h->0 if x>0 or x<0. Only things of the form 0/0 can and do go anywhere.

Even then L'Hopitals Rule provides some ability to cope with many ratios of the form 0/0. This spawns some very subtle and difficult questions. You do them no justice.

Posted by: The Moderate | December 15, 2007 10:22 PM
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Dear Pagan Place,

"I'm the source.

I used to be homeless."

I was agreeing with you, really.

You know, I think that you have a hard time here sometimes, because you are a real person among a bunch of rhetoricians.

Another Pagan once said:

"How unlucky this should have happened to me! Not at all. Say How lucky that I am not broken by what has happened and am not afraid of what is about to happen. The same blow might have struck anyone, but not many would have absorbed it without capitulation or complaint."

Meditations
Book IV
Marcus Aurelius

As much as possible move through a world, in which too much is wrong, at peace and doing what you can.


Posted by: The Moderate | December 14, 2007 11:23 PM
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"Religions equate size with God's blessing."

I guess that would make the poor and oppressed God's favorites, after all.

Posted by: Mad Love | December 14, 2007 12:34 AM
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Bruce writes:

"Religions equate size with God's blessing."

How right you are. It's all part of their argument from authority BS.

Christianity accounts for a full 33% of all the religious people in the world, or roughly 2.1 billion people out of the 6 billion currently on Earth. That means that 67% - or 3.9 billion people - don't hold to Xian teachings.

How's that for authority?

Often overlooked in the statistics is the fact that non-believers make up 16% of the world's population, which amounts to just over a billion people (granted, most of them are Chinese). The number of atheists in the world is roughly 750 million.

After Xianity and Islam, non-believers are the next-largest group on Earth when defined by belief system/lack of belief system.

Posted by: Mr Mark | December 13, 2007 12:20 PM
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bruce: ditto

Posted by: BGone | December 13, 2007 11:21 AM
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Why do religious leaders fake surprise when other religious enterprises suspect that their religious charity is convert driven? Don't all members of any group join because they receive something from that group, whether monetary or spiritual? Why wouldn't the poor in wealth, as well as in spirit, gravitate to generosity?

Religions equate size with God's blessing. Larger means you have the "right" interpretation of God's message, meaning that all others are pretenders. Charity is in part an investment in the future flock and thus validity.

The Vatican is so frightened by the drop of membership in Europe and South America that the Pope has to publish an encyclical warning that the elimination of suffering through socialist programs destroys the need for Christian hope. Obviously some religious organization depend on the perpetuation of poverty for survival.

Although charity is a tool of conversion, individuals should not stop contributing; they simply need to funnel their contributions through organizations whose ideals they support...preferably to those who are primarily motivated to serve humanity rather than grow themselves.

Posted by: bruce | December 13, 2007 11:10 AM
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SECRETS:

You said, "when I divide it will be to give the wealth to the believers in Christ."

Right on!
Well said!
And Amen - Amen-ophis IV, "a" Christ said that without a doubt.

But then http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul proves using "sacred scriptures" that you are correct and why wealth flows to those who believe. But not all? There are some really poor believers? Has to do with the "cheapness" of souls and who pay Devil's fee for the souls of big time ministers.

"The big money goes to those leading the multitudes to hell." So yes indeed, "when I divide it will be to give the wealth to the believers in Christ" - "the" Christ that is the son of the being in the ball of fire - same variety of fire found only in hell.

Posted by: BGone | December 13, 2007 10:55 AM
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Rev Logan writes:

"Star Trek; PAGANPLACE, is fiction."

And how would that be different than the fiction that calls itself religion?

Posted by: Mr Mark | December 13, 2007 10:30 AM
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Dear Rev Logan -

So sad - but not unexpected - to see yet another Xian proposing that the problems with the good ol' USA is that we aren't sufficiently Xian.

You say this of a country where 90% of the populace self-identifies as Xian and where the present administration and that administration's political party self-identify as being Xian, and where the president himself claims that he is guided by divine authority in the decisions he makes.

Perhaps you'd like to rethink your hypothesis (and spare us the usual "they're not REAL Xians/Xians are all sinners" excuses)?

Posted by: Mr Mark | December 13, 2007 10:20 AM
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Rev Logan - I hope you're not for real, but I fear you are.

I like to think Bishop Chane and other sensible clergy (and I know there are many)are just as put off by your words as I am.

Also, a bit of advice - I suggest you don't mention your grandfather's bona fides in your signature, it makes you look insecure.

Posted by: E favorite | December 13, 2007 8:05 AM
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Pretty, ain't She?

Good thing about being a Pagan, after a couple cloudy months, some things are as simple as moonlight. :)

As for who really needs a swift kick, ...hehehe. There's a beauty to that, too. :)

BB. :)

Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 7:06 AM
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Lovely moon out tonight, no?

Wasn’t it Saint Raygun who said “All the poor really need is a good swift kick in the a$$”

I’m paraphrasing, of course.

Posted by: Mad Love | December 13, 2007 6:03 AM
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Guessing the bishops is well-tucked in for the night long since while certain Pagans are being kept up.

Yathink? :)

Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 4:43 AM
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Did you know there are more persons held in involuntary bondage in Christian countries *now* than there were before slavery was "abolished" in America and the British empire, Reverend?

Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 4:24 AM
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Cause I'll tell you one thing, Your Holiness, them Russian mobsters'll cross emselves right and left and bust a cap in you without half a breath between.

Never mind.

Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 3:35 AM
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Nope, I was addressing you, Reverend, there's an invitation implicit there.

Nonetheless, though you claim to be a Bishop, it's 'childish things' you speak of.

I speak of the lives of the 'poor' and those in the 'wilderness' you so-condescendingly, errr, condescend to define.

YOur badges and collars of office hold no weight here, my friend. Whether you actually hold them or not, this is the Internet, where anyone can type those same words, as if the credentials ever meant anything real in the first place.

I speak to you as a fellow Human. As a Pagan traveler who thinks there are far worse metaphors for human aspiration out there than Star Trek.

You speak of a Christian superiority in charity which you claim by fiat, yet ignore the voice of one who's actually been in the place where supposedly people receive all this great charity of yours.

You chide me for mentioning Star Trek.

Actually, I say that if we can do as well, *then* you can start complaining about impiety.

It's a good story. It's a good hope. It shows us the better in ourselves. It shows us what even some of the most hostile Fundies I've mischanced to meet would have us be.

Your book, Your Reverend Bishopness, is fiction, too. But someone lost the *meaning* along the way.

Gods preserve us from losing the meanings of what we *do* hold to be our better myths and aspirations.

I'm not a Christian, Reverend Bishop Dude.

I'm a queer, and a Goddess-loving Pagan American, but I'm well-schooled in these words:


"I assure you my only interest is to let everyone recognize the fact that to be Christian, is not to be religious, but to effect the return of Christ to earth, in the unity, faith and fullness of all he represented during his human presence among us."



I would say that the end of this is not 'To Be Christian.'

I think your own savior dude said that 'Should you lose this, the stones will shout.'

Maybe we're just rockin'.

But. Your bishopness.

In another thread, someone was telling me I don't know what 'charity' is about, presuming I'm a 'liberal elite,' I said, 'I know this cause I was street people' They say, 'Only evangelicals know or care about human trafficking,' ....And I referred to putting my own life in peril, as someone Christians dispossessed and demonized, trying to set someone free while conservatives'll have em deported for being 'illegal immigrants.'

Then say , 'You liberals don't care about this!'


I say, *if you conservatives* care about this, stop trying to hurt *me* and *f'n do something.*

So, Your Eminence or Whatever.

Tell me what you think I got wrong except your brand name.


Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 3:29 AM
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I am a child of God, born of the same flesh as you. However such as it may be, I have been Born Again, I have a new attitude I see things a little more clearly. When I was a child, I thought like a child, because I could only comprehend on the level of a child, Now that I am a (learned man), I no longer see as a child, but have learned to embrace the more responsible tasks before me. I do not balk before obstacles, or tasks simply because they overwhelm me.

Star Trek; PAGANPLACE, is fiction. I may not have been officially invited to join your conversation, but there seemed to be an open door, if I entered prematurely, I apologize. I assure you my only interest is to let everyone recognize the fact that to be Christian, is not to be religious, but to effect the return of Christ to earth, in the unity, faith and fullness of all he represented during his human presence among us.

Did he not say, that we should be doing greater things than he, because he was going to the one that sent him? Well why can not we, like Christ "be about our Father's affairs"

During this particular time of our lives, it seems our purpose would be the lifting up of the Spirit of Goodwill, instead finding fault in the process.

Posted by: Rev. Donald Logan | December 13, 2007 2:47 AM
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Oh, and, as for the 'wilderness,' Reverend.

Many a merrye companiye have I known there.

You could learn something there. About that humanity you propose to command, and seem to know so little of.

That goes for you, too, Moderate.

Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 2:11 AM
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That just sounds like a bad Star Trek episode: "You are not of the Body!" :)


My observation, Reverend, if you had to spam out the above, is, ...the 'carnality of human nature' is really not any bigger a deal than you *make* of it.

Which seems to be part of the political agenda.

But, you illustrate how Christians claiming to be the only ones to serve the poor tend to get all wound up about other people's 'carnality' while somehow *just never managing to get the food out there.*

As I said to 'The Moderate' who wanted me to 'cite sources,' ...funny thing is, I *was* there.

I don't know you.

Reverend.

Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 2:04 AM
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and the government shall be upon his shoulder:

Are we not the BODY OF CHRIST? and Is not the shoulder a part of the Body"

1Co 12:1 For as the body is one, and hath many
members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into
one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free;

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the BODY OF CHRIST, and
members in particular.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healing, helps, GOVERNMENTS,....

For to many years in our latter day society, the "church" has rebelled against participation in politics. (and I agree the church has no business finagling in the "game of politics") However it is a very different matter when we are relating to the political activities of PUBLIC SERVICE and Government of human rights. It is the responsibility of the CHURCH OF GOD to provide for the common good. That was the purpose behind the Four states in the United States which officially designate themselves "commonwealths":

* Kentucky is designated a Commonwealth by the Kentucky Constitution and is known as the "Commonwealth of Kentucky".

* Massachusetts is a Commonwealth, declaring itself such in its constitution, which states that "The body politic is formed by a voluntary association of individuals: it is a social compact, by which the whole people covenants with each citizen, and each citizen with the whole people, that all shall be governed by certain laws for the common good."

* Pennsylvania uses the term "Commonwealth" loosely. The "Commonwealth of Pennsylvania" is its official title.

* Virginia has been known as the "Commonwealth of Virginia" since before joining the United States.

And the Church of God, is in reality the "COMMONWEALTH BODY OF CHRIST".

"Religion" is not the foundation of The United States of America. Believe it or not religion is a form of politics. Christianity is a way of life, not a form of religion.

It is the carnality of the human nature of man coupled with the subtlety of the wiles of the Devil, that has set us at odds with one another. The serpent in the garden convinced Eve, it was wrong for her not to think of herself as being like God. (Did not God create her to be the help-mate for the creature created to be like God?)

Now The serpent grown into a Dragon, is attempting to convince Mankind that it is impossible for us to be like God?

No one is asking for the preacher, minister, Rabbi, or Priest to come out of the pulpit, but surely there is someone sitting in the pew, that has the mind of God, who can sit in the seat of Government. Ask Moses, (the Prince of Egypt) Joseph, (the Vice President/Regent) Lot (the Mayor of Sodom) And King David (The Sheep herder).

I am not sorry to say; Our personal faith is not off-limits, in any campaign. Especially when it comes to the commonwealth of a nation.

A man or woman with a hidden agenda is more dangerous than any terrorist could ever be.

2008 signifies a new beginning in a new millennium. Let us not build upon sinking sand, corroded corner stones, deteriorating history, broken vows, and unfulfilled promises. Let us commit ourselves to the mandate of 2nd Chronicle 7:14-16. and cease forever our "WANDERING IN THE WILDERNESS"

Rev. Donald Logan
Grandson of Fr John Richard Logan
Episcopal Rector: Virginia & Pennsylvania

Posted by: Rev. Donald Logan | December 13, 2007 1:53 AM
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Ever wonder why I kinda-can-translate/understand JJ?

Moderate?

I'm street people, just with broadband and adequate B-vitamins. 'Compassionate conservatism,' as it was later termed, coulda not denied me some health care and a place to live for being queer before I even *got* there if it hadn't been left to one Christian clerk at the local public services office to tell me 'We don't serve your kind here,' as I heard from enough charitable Christians early on that I wouldn't darken their doors for love or money.

A little health care *then* would have done wonders. Now it's crippling. But hey.

If after what I've been through, if I think the 'Compassionate conservatism' *you* brought up sounds to me like 'Kinder, Gentler, Nazi,' .....hopefully you'll 'forgive' me for getting that general impression.

Maybe there's a dictionary out there that'll tell you different. Honey.


Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 1:44 AM
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" The Moderate:

Dear Pagan Place:

"... using religion as a means to pretend to be caring for the poor, basically means the hard work of some few sincere folks is appropriated by those who want to make things worse for the poor at the expense of the rich."

"Didn't you get that out of the dictionary, from the definition for "Compassionate Conservatism"?

"Tsk, Tsk, now. You really should cite your sources, dear."


I'm the source.


I used to be homeless.

Posted by: Paganplace | December 13, 2007 1:17 AM
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Since there is PROVEN Corruption, injustice, inequality, and immorality in political parties. A few of us "Bible Thumping" Christians; believe that GOD CAN guide us in the establishment of a Moral, Holy, (not a Theocratic or Romanist Vatican or Orthodoxy Governing Body,) but a true Christian Organized Political Body, of conscientious open-minded responsible electors.

A God-fearing servant will make a stronger defender, than a Celebrated "leader" that is self-sufficient, fortified, and surrounded by gain seekers, and "back-slappers".

The reason the United States of America is suffering under the threat of insecure governmental instability, is because most of the former and contemporary leaders, holding offices of power; reject the guidance of Divine Authority.

The founding fathers, and patriots sought out, through prayer and supplication, the wisdom and guidance of Divine Intervention.

The purpose of the "Commonwealth Body Party" will be to regain, that strength and invite the Creator to once again be the center and foundation of our Government, Society and Homeland Security.

Posted by: Rev. Donald Logan | December 13, 2007 12:50 AM
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Dear Pagan Place:

"... using religion as a means to pretend to be caring for the poor, basically means the hard work of some few sincere folks is appropriated by those who want to make things worse for the poor at the expense of the rich."

Didn't you get that out of the dictionary, from the definition for "Compassionate Conservatism"?

Tsk, Tsk, now. You really should cite your sources, dear.

Posted by: The Moderate | December 12, 2007 10:58 PM
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"Why didn't He persuade his co-tenants to create a world free of disease, poverty and all those other ills, rather than burdening an already overburdened humanity with trying to set things right?"

Norrie, would you exist in such a world? Would any of us? Be careful what you wish for, my friend.

Posted by: The Moderate | December 12, 2007 10:51 PM
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For God says He looked today upon America and said I see the energy crisis. And He says look at what you are walking on, you are walking on grass. Did you not know that even your grass, your soil, what's underneath your waters will give you energy.

For God says today that there will be new technologies advancing so quickly, so rapidly that this is a secret from God that he said that in 2008 I am going to multiply and divide at the same time. But when I multiply that will bring about prosperity and when I divide it will be to give the wealth to the believers in Christ. I will multiply the wealth for the body of Christ and then divided it to the people of Christ. This is the message from the Lord and you will receive it, says the Lord in the year 2008.

Rejoice America, for acceleration will continue into 2008 and once again America will look to Ohio for they hold the promises of God in their hands. This is not one but one by one they will begin to realize that My appointed leader is going to have his breakthrough and the pack will be left to look back and say, this must be a miracle. And God says, why would I have it any other way for this is your year for victory, says the Lord!

Look at the Olympics of 2008 and I tell you there will be a transformation of those who seek gold? For even small countries shall take the gold, and I tell you now America be ready to be humbled at this Olympics for you think that you are a mighty athletic power, because of this idolatry I will raise up many other nations and they shall break records. America, if you will humble yourselves before Me and honor Me and give Me honor for athletic abilities I will allow you to succeed, but I said that sports in America in is a value that is too great in this nation and I say, where is the value of the family, where is the value of the believer? Are you at the temple of God saying, when will the end come? Or are you at the house of God saying preach until you cannot preach any longer! For God says, I love sports but America you have placed foolish games above the Lord of All. Today your future is in the hands of the Living God and if you seek after My ways I will see that you prosper, says the Lord.

Soon you will see in the political arenas frauds and God will purge them for their falsehoods, forgeries and scandals. For God has heard the heart of the believer say, “We will pray, we will fast and we will focus our attention on the Supreme Court" For another is coming, says the Lord! We will stand as the body of Christ and unite in 2008.” And God will turn His Spirit around like a whirlwind for His power. I will make him a leader and a man focused on prayer.

And in 2008 I will awaken your eyes and you will see the candidate that will have My spirit. And in the oval office I will comminicate My ways and My will regarding the things I have concerning you America.

http://jcudell.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Secrets | December 12, 2007 10:05 PM
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Jihadist:

"As simple as 1 + 1 = 25,457" is as simple as dividing by zero.

Anything / zero = Whatever - the divider chooses to make it.

All religions are based upon the "divide by zero" principle. Well, maybe not the Muslim religion where God really did make His will known through prophecy.

Allah and God are the same supernatural being? Can't help but notice they're both so puny they need people to do their divine wills.

Isn't it Devil and not Allah that needs people? I mean, what kind of God needs people to kill themselves in His name? And you wonder why everyone isn't on knees, nose on the floor praying for help? Allah should be on His knees to people praying for help shouldn't He?

Posted by: BGone | December 12, 2007 9:15 PM
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Ah! All my favourite atheist/secular humanist/anti-theist aare here - Norrie Hoyt, Mr. Mark and E Favorite.

Oh you tortured non-believers you! :)

So complicated in thinking! We untortured minded believers have simpler minds.

Norrie Hoyt observed:

"Jesus was a tenant-in-common of the triune God, having a one-third interest therein.

Why didn't He persuade his co-tenants to create a world free of disease, poverty and all those other ills, rather than burdening an already overburdened humanity with trying to set things right?"

If God is a member of a committee comprising others, as committees goes....there would be endless, endless discussion on priorities - Diseases over poverty?
Poverty over diseases?
Which comes first - disease or poverty?
Do diseases eliminate poverty?
Or, do poverty eliminate diseases?

Endless, endless discussion from then to eternity.

Mr Mark asked : Christ calls us to try? Hmm, maybe.

Considering Christ's view of mankind and the world, wouldn't a better assessment be, "Christ calls us to fail?"

I don't quite know what Christ's view of mankind is from the New Testatament of the Bible. But is seems that we fail on our own just fine. We can only always try to succeed.

As simple as 1 + 1 = 25,457

Thanks and regards

"J"


Posted by: Jihadist | December 12, 2007 7:32 PM
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I think the issue of ulterior motives in using religion as a means to pretend to be caring for the poor, basically means the hard work of some few sincere folks is appropriated by those who want to make things worse for the poor at the expense of the rich.

There's just no way that private religious charity can cover the scope of the problems, and, if you look at it, claiming that Christians are charitable, thus should have their way theologically with government power and things like what they want to believe about sex, AIDS, condoms, the environment, and unchecked corporate capitalism... is doing more harm than the private sector can make up for.

If you believe it's a religious calling to care for the poor, great.... But it can't be *solely* a religious observance, cause to my observation, what it takes to salve a religious conscience doesn't actually produce enough help to get poor people through their daily lives.

The poor and sick do not exist for your religious edification, ..they're real people, and real Americans.

When religious people trumpet how charitable their faith is, then seem to proceed on the assumption that if government is punitive toward poor people, that the churches will make up the slack (if allowed to proselytize with less money than the program cuts represented) then they are exercising their religious desires based on abstractions that don't pan out in reality.

The conservative Christian idea that poverty motivates people to work hard doesn't have an inkling of how much being poor *is* hard work, just to survive, never mind make a positive contribution to society. Frankly, they tend to look down on poor people, and spend a lot of government money on trying to get people *off* public aid, whether or not they are able to get by without it.

A more realistic perspective is needed. If we care for the poor, we need to do more than indulge people claiming their religion *makes* whatever they do count as doing so.

The dark side of these 'religious callings' is in fact, the use of poverty for religious compulsion, the use of poor people's sufferings for the religious 'benefit' of wealthier people, and, particularly in America, the tendency of the pious to believe poverty is a defect of character, to still believe AIDS is a punishment for 'sins,' and to try to make pregnancy the same.

When some Pagan groups said, 'Hey, we could sure put some of this 'faith based' funding where it needs to go, they were categorically denied this, on the basis that the government has a religious belief that 'Pagans aren't charitable, cause they aren't Christian, so you... Can't be charitable in this way.'

You have people promoting abstinence-only sex education, which is shown to essentially be no sex education at all, and has terrible effects on the people it's supposed to 'help.' But they believe abstinence is the only way people should be able to manage their lives, and can't seem to see that you can't impose this religious belief on others and expect it to work.

If that doesn't sound like a case of people using these issues solely to promote their own religion's influence, I don't know what does.


Posted by: Paganplace | December 12, 2007 3:16 PM
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Christ calls us to try? Hmm, maybe.

Considering Christ's view of mankind and the world, wouldn't a better assessment be, "Christ calls us to fail?"

Posted by: Mr Mark | December 12, 2007 1:46 PM
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Will you be needing a heart transplant?

You'll want one that's never been used so make sure the donor is either a banker or a bishop.

So you better get rid of your wealth. But where?

Luke 18:22
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Finding the poor to distribute my wealth will be a real bore. Can anyone help? I see. "Churches by themselves or broad Christian denominations globally cannot end such conditions." Humm. Why would I give you my money. Won't that simply move me from rich to poor?

If I give all to Jesus' representatives, "Churches" how much of it will actually get back to me to relieve my poverty?

Here's an idea. Let's sell all the church property and distribute that to the poor. That way I can keep my money and not join the poor.

Oops!
Matthew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

There won't be any bankers or bishops in heaven so if you think you'll need a heart transplant you want to go where they go.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul is fair warning. Does this warning come from God? We are all God's children so anything that comes from one of us must therefore come from God.

Blessed are those who live in round rooms for they are impossible to corner. The room in which religion lives has at least one corner, charity.

Posted by: BGone | December 12, 2007 1:28 PM
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Norrie - it's a mystery, as deep as the trinity itself.

Still, I give the Bishop credit for suggesting that the exchange of humanitarian assistance for religious converts is not a good one.

Posted by: E favorite | December 12, 2007 9:35 AM
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Jesus was a tenant-in-common of the triune God, having a one-third interest therein.

Why didn't He persuade his co-tenants to create a world free of disease, poverty and all those other ills, rather than burdening an already overburdened humanity with trying to set things right?

Posted by: Norrie Hoyt | December 5, 2007 4:48 PM
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