Parsley's View Dangerous, Divisive

"If Islam is a "false religion" then so too must Christianity and Judaism." The Right Reverend John Bryson.

Reverend let me read you from the Bible you might use a different Bible but this is what mine says and i found it to be rather topical considering your comment about Christianity being false if Judaism and Islam are false.

Galatians I 6-9

6.I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
7.which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8.But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

What an incredibly arrogant and ignorant posting. Bishop Chane, with all due respect it is your view of Islam that is dangerous.

Rev. Parsley has written perhaps the definitive chapter-length overview of Islam and its implications for our nation in his 2005 book, "Silent No More." He proves that Islam cannot be considered in harmony with Christianity in any sense of the term. From a Muslim point of view, there are two options for non-believers: conversion and death. America can only ignore facts like these at her peril.

Perhaps the most telling aspect of your post is your questioning of Rev. (Dr.) Parsley's academic credentials, as though that were somehow relevant. It does not take advanced degrees to understand the clear threat Islam poses to America, sir, and your attempt to shift the issue smacks of desperation and elitism. You are an intelligent man, sir, but in this instance you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Most of the rest of us, when faced with that knowledge, keep our mouths shut.

The problem isn't that if Islam is false then Christianity and Judaism are also false. The problem is that if Judaism and Christianity are false then Islam is also false. Judaism and Christianity don't recognize Islam in their holy books because they are older religions. Islam is the new kid on the block and it says that Judaism and Christianity are true, yet it hates both with a passion. Therefore, Islam has to be a false religion because it's illogical for it to hate what it says is true.

As far as essentials go there really isn't much difference in modern day Islam and ancient Judaism. Moses and Mohammed were both raving homicidal maniacs who thought they had a direct line to god. They could have be twins. Modern day Jews have pretty much dumped all of that religious idiocy of the Old Testament. They just continue to think that they are God's "chosen people".

Christians base their religion on a vision seen by the bounty hunter Paul. If he and his disciples hadn't written the Jesus story the religion wouldn't even exist today. Christianity gave us resurrections, ghosts, demons, angels, New Jerusalem, and the lake of fire.

If any god is real then it's time for him to prove it. I'll worship the first one that can prove his existence. Between all of the religions, it's amazing that there are any sane people on the planet. Our minds are cluttered with an abundance of non-sense.

IMO, the only thing worse than a religious fanatic is one that thinks that we should base our national policies on what other religious fanatics think.

Jesus is not God-Incarnate, that's that, and any attempt to use the bible to support that idea ends in absurdity and contradiction. Believing it without knowing the bible is ignorance, knowing the bible and believing it is stupidity......

Free Will is an illusion, and like most other myths of the bible was usurped from other belief systems. Any attempt to use the bible to support the idea of Free Will ends in absurdity and contradiction. Believing it without knowing the bible is ignorance, knowing the bible and believing it is stupidity......

TO RYAN HABER:

You wrote, "The three religions agree on that there is one God, and that to Him alone worship is due", I hear so many people say to worship God, well worship is a word, just what do you or anyone else mean by worshipping God because it can mean many things, to me it means to be thankful, what does it mean to you or anyone else who wishes to comment?

You also wrote, " The first that comes to mind is the question of the divinity of the historical person Jesus of Nazareth. Christians answer the question affirmatively, while Jews and Muslims answer negatively.", this is a misleading statement.

While Christians believe that Jesus is God-Incarnate, the Jews do not accept that Jesus is a prophet whereas the Muslims say that Jesus is a prophet but is not God-Incarnate there is a big difference there.

It is all about LOVE since God is a Being of Love, God is not a loving God, as in Love being an attribute of God, but is His very Being.

If Jesus is God-Incarnate and He Is and if a supernatural being came to Mohammed and said that Jesus is only a prophet and not God in the Flesh then who do you think that supernatural being is?

God gave us free will and with that free will even God cannot force Himself on us, so if we try to force God or whatever conception of God we might have on others, then are we being Godly?

Calling oneself a Christian does not mean someone is a Christian.

There are many that seem to think that Christianity is something that should be imposed from the outside whereas if it doesn't come from the inside then it isn't Christianity at all and some of these 'many', call themselves "Christian".

God is a searcher of hearts and minds as in what and why you do things rather than in whatever label you happen to put on yourself.

I am thankful that God's Plan is for ALL to be with Him in His Kingdom, we will all be judged, do we take personal responsibility for what we do now or later?

Take care, be ready, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom [the new heavens and the new earth}.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

The Right Reverend Chane's assertion that if Islam is false, then so must be Christianity and Judaism is nonsensical.

The three religions agree on that there is one God, and that to Him alone worship is due. Beyond that, there are numerous many points upon which Christians, Jews, and Muslims disagree. The first that comes to mind is the question of the divinity of the historical person Jesus of Nazareth. Christians answer the question affirmatively, while Jews and Muslims answer negatively. To state that the affirmation and the negation of a statement are equivalent is to violate the law of noncontradiction, as someone earlier noted.

It is unfortunate that a bishop, and one with such illustrious theological training, cannot come up with a way - even in Christ's law of love - to esteem and defend the freedom of religion of Muslims and Jews, except by denying the fundamental structure of reality. I don't have many theological degrees from illustrious seminaries, but I can think of one way:

Love them.

If you love someone, you are willing to let them be wrong, wouldn't dream of forcing them against their conscience, and treat them as you would want to be treated - all the while believing them to be completely mistaken about an important matter. Mistaken isn't the same thing as evil.

the word of God is dangerous and divisive. for those who don't believe it. Christ said something about dividing us and something about let the dead bury the dead,you follow me.

GaryD:

It seems a bit odd that Theodosius found it necessary to enact so many laws against the practice of competing religions if "most of the Empire was pretty much Christian anyway." Do you really think Theodosius appropriated or destroyed all of those pagan temples just because the pagans had voluntarily stopped using them? Using your logic then, I reckon he forbade pagans from holding public office or governmental jobs because he thought they needed long vacations?

From my perspective, it seems more likely that Christianity thrived because it became the default religion after the empire had outlawed all the others and after the Catholic church had incorporated the more attractive elements of those religions into their own.

TO HL:

You wrote, " What I would like to know is where you came with such a comment anyway; maybe I overlooked it the Quran somehow and you might be gracious enough to show me where you got it from.", concerning what I wrote about Jesus being a second-rate prophet in islam, I didn't get it from the Quran, I got it from the way people speak when they say, "allah and his prophet Mohammed" as if Mohammed eclipsed all of the other prophets, that is where I get it.

You also wrote, "If Jesus was YHWH, Elohim, Hashem, why didn’t Peter say so? Wouldn’t he be the first to know?", actually it was Thomas who first got it, when he declared, "My Lord and My God" when Jesus asked him to put his fingers into the nail holes and his hand into His side, and to this Jesus said, "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed".

You also wrote, "You wrote: “God wins, Satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.”

That’s a silly and a nonsensical statement; For one thing I thought Satan was a creation of God. And another I did not know there is war going on between God and Satan and in which the outcome was in doubt; How can God be omnipotent if he is involved in a space-time fight against a creature of his. It just does not make sense."

Does the fact that God's Plan is for ALL OF HUMANITY, not just for those that repent, to be with Him in His Kingdom the part that doesn't make sense?

Don't worry, plenty of people that call themselves "Christian" don't believe it either even tho both Muslims and Christians talk about God being so Merciful but do any of them want Mercy for All or just for themselves and maybe a few select others?

In the bible God says of Himself, "My Ways are not your ways and My Thoughts are not your thoughts", God put it all on the line and we in our pettiness can be very unappreciative, can we not?

God did create satan and God gave us a choice, and we chose to disobey and even tho we were deceived by satan, we neverthless listened to his deceptions and we still do.

If anyone takes an honest look at the world and cannot see that there is evil in it, what can I say?

Maybe you can answer this: Some say jihad is the personal struggle between good and evil that each and everyone of us goes thru in this world, others say it is for the total subjucation of the world for allah and his prophet, which is it? Or is it both?

I have met God the Father, I have met God the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus, I have met the Trinity, I used to believe in the Trinity but since I have met the Trinity, I know that God is a Trinity and God knew that I needed to know, to do the "job" that I have been chosen to do.

Jesus also said that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide us into all Truth, as in what is Ultimate Truth not as in a bunch of knowledge.

By the way at Jesus's baptism by John the Baptist the whole Trinity is involved or do you think that Jesus is a ventriloquist?

You also wrote, "“Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.” To me that statement is illogical and senseless", I am not trying to convince anyone of anything but do you consider yourself 100% from your earthly father and 100% from your earthly mother which makes you 100% you?

Jesus had no earthly father, but His earthly mother was Mary.

I don't know the Quran but is it true that the Quran says that Jesus's Mom was a virgin when He was conceived and born?

I have also met satan and he can try to come across as mister nice guy but he isn't.

Also as anyone should know the best liars use some true in what they are saying.

As I have said before and I repeat: The True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.

Many people will be trying to hide behind their "religion" and/or "beliefs" and using the aforementioned in an attempt to justify what they know in their heart to be wrong.

Take care, be ready, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom [the new heavens and the new earth].

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

According to Wikipedia, the Reverend Parsley holds a bachelor's degree from Ohio Christian University and honorary doctoral degrees from Indiana Christian University and Liberty University.

Theodosius is an interesting Character and codified many of the changes that Constantine had made informally and added others. By the time of his reign most of the Empire was pretty much Christian anyway.

GaryD:

Since I know you appreciate history, you might want to check out the "Codex Theodosianus" co-written by Theodosius, the Roman emporer who made Christianity the official religion of the empire @ 380 AD.

Cheers

By the time of Constantine Rome was pretty much on the defensive and had been for almost 100 years. The only think Constantine did was stop the persecution of Christians for once and for all. He did little to spread the faith other than making it a prerequisite for public and did more damage to Christianity with that edict than anything Even the worst persecutors of Christianity managed.

GARYD&PAGANLPACE:IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN,CONSTANTINE WAS EMPEROR OF ROME ABOUT 350 AD.HISTORY DOES'T PLACE HIM AS THE MOST PEACEFUL ONE TO SPREAD THE WORD IN PAGAN EUROPE.

TO TIM:

Jesus said lots of things.

Jesus also said, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do".

Jesus also said, "Come follow Me".

Christianity is just part of God's unfolding Plan which God has had since before creation.

Just as the quotes you mentioned shows that God Himself said that not all that call themselves "Christian" are Christian in their heart, we cannot look into any other human being's heart as God can but we can hear what spews out of their mouths.

As I have said before God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof, therefore there are people that are "Christian" in their hearts that don't even believe in God.

Another thing that Jesus said, "Simon thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build MY Church and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it".

Jesus said it was HIS CHURCH.

Jesus also said the "gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it", He did not say His Church would be perfect but that the mission of the church was for the captives to be freed [those in hell] and the dead to rise [those in spiritual death], as in "the gates of the netherworld", God has all of the bases covered, so to speak.

Take care, be ready, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom [the new heavens and the new earth].

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Cause, you know, Gary, it seems to me that *you're* the one here claiming you have an unquestionable-and-always right religion, and every position you *take* is aggressive or repressive.

All in the course of trying to 'prove' all Muslims are *all* people like that, irrevocably.

Hrm.

"Gonfrntn Baloney. For its first 1000 years Christianity spread by verbal persuasion alone. For the church had no army worthy of the same."

What, apart from the military forces of two Roman empires and any tribal chieftains promised a good deal over their neighbors? Heh.

Ah, Bishop -- look what you've wrought, asserting the “…historic connection between the three great Abrahamic, monotheistic religions of the world, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.”

Looks like some Christians here don’t like being lumped with those Muslims, even if all the history books in the world connect the religions you mention back to Abraham. These Christians just don’t want to hear it. Of course historians only assert the formation and progress of those religions, they don’t address the question of the actual existence of the religions’ common God. That’s the province of theologians.

Christian theologians will agree about the relationship of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They will also assert that God exists and that Jesus is his son, but there is no historical basis for that, as you know.

Gonfrntn Baloney. For its first 1000 years Christianity spread by verbal persuasion alone. For the church had no army worthy of the same.

To be sure the Roman Catholic Church spread Roman Catholicism by force throughout Central and south America by force of Arms but the similarities between Christianity and Roman Catholicism are large either illusory or accidental.

JOHN BRYSON CHANE and the Episcopal Church remind me of two things that Lord has said.

Mt 7 :21-23 "Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’

Rev 3:14-16 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation. "‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.

GIDEON: IF YOU BELIEVE THAT CHRISTIANITY WAS NOT SPREAD BY THE SWORD YOU KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORY MUST BEGIN WITH THE DATE OF YOUR BIRTH.CHECK OUT MOST OF EUROPE,SOUTH AMERICA,THE PACIFIC ISLANDS AND THE SLAVES BROUGHT TO AMERICA AND THE CARRIBEAN ISLANDS.

IT IS A SAD STATE OF AFFAIR WHEN A PERSON WHO CLAIMS TO BE A "CHRISTIAN" RESORTS TO HATE AND CALLING FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE RELIGION OF ONE FIFTH OF THE POPULATION INSTEAD OF EDUCATING HIMSELF ABOUT THAT RELIGION.HE PROBABLY RECIEVED HIS EDUCATION ON CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY FROM "DIPLOMAS ARE US".

To: To: The Right Reverend John Bryson Chane is the eighth Episcopal Bishop of Washington.

Since you asked the question: what theology institute did you graduate from?

Do you believe all roads lead to eternal life? If so which Holy Bible have you read? Do you believe in absolute truth and base your ethical and moral decisions on Scripture. Do you believe that truth is relative—that it is open to personal definition and interpretation—and I guess you speak on your misguided belief. Jesus is the one who said: I and the Father are one; whoever has seen me has seen the Father. No man can come to the Father except through Me (Jesus). Is that not in the bible or are you making up your own doctrine. If you believe that, you may not want to preach false doctrine to your Christian followers.

If one believes in the indivisible, eternal Trinity and the Bible, then the inescapable truth is that Jesus, as a part of that Trinity, drowned 99.999+% of all creatures on this planet.

"If Islam is a 'false religion' then so too must Christianity and Judaism."

That is an utterly false and absurd assertion, totally lacking in logic or proof. Whatever theological cemetery Mr. Chane attended must have not included Biblical studies. How many false gods did God destroy? How many times did he tell the Jews not to marry idol worshippers? How many idols were destroyed by zealous Jewish leaders? Countless.

The teachings of Jesus to love your enemies is completely incompatable with the admonishment of Mohammed to kill all the infidels. Mohammed spread Islam with the sword. Jesus never killed anyone, neither did he advocate killing anyone, nor did he sanction killing anyone. He laid down his life rather than kill. Mohammed killed many, many men.

Mr. Chane cites the number of Muslims in the world as verification of the authenticity of Islam. So, if enough persons believe a lie, the lie then becomes the truth? Echoes of Communist theorists.

YHWH and Allah the moon god are not one and the same.

Ah, yes, Gary and Thomas.

Saying: "But *My* 'One True Book is the One True Book, not yours, which makes similar but rival claims on the same bases!"

...just has such a *track record* of bringing peace and joy,understanding, prosperity, justice, and fairness to the world through foreign policy and military power...

Doesn't it?

TO JOHN BRYSON CHANE:

You wrote, "If Islam is a "false religion" then so too must Christianity and Judaism".

Just where did you come up with this lie or should I say 'distortion of truth'?

The most basic belief of Christianity is that Jesus is God-Incarnate.

The god of islam says that Jesus is a second-rate prophet and is not God.

Concerning the two sentences above either they are both lies or one or the other is true because they both can't be true, can they?

The word, Trinity, might not appear in the bible but the Trinity is mentioned in numerous places in the bible and as I have said before, people would be better off if they threw away the whole bible rather than ripping it to shreds, so to speak.

As far as I am concerned Anyone Who can turn Himself into Bread has my vote, also I have met God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, there's the Trinity.

Judaism is not a religion, the Jews are the chosen people and they have been chosen and formed by God.

Jesus was a Jew and the Jews were chosen and formed by God so that the Second Person of the Trinity could, by the obedience of a few, become a human being and live long enough to do what He came here to do, which is part of God's Plan that is unfolding before our very eyes and which God has had since before creation.

Just because someone believes in the Trinity does not make one a "Christian", even tho one of the most basic beliefs of "Christianity" is that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, God-Incarnate, but didn't Jesus also extend to us an invitation to, "Come follow Me"?

Pastor Parsley called islam a false religion, which just happens to be true, but for him to say that it should be destroyed seems to show that he doesn't have a clue about what being a "Christian" is and what Christianity is even about.

Jesus, God-Incarnate, forced Himself on no one and He did not ask us to force Him on anyone else either.

Jesus asked us to "PROCLAIM THE GOOD NEWS" and that "Good News" is for ALL OF HUMANITY to be with God in His Kingdom [the new heavens and the new earth].

Instead of wondering where Pastor Parsley went to school maybe you should ask yourself if you even believe in the most basic of basic beliefs of "Christianity", do you?

By the way, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof but God is a Trinity and Jesus is God-Incarnate and Jesus did send the Holy Spirit.

It is important what you do and why you do it and what you know.

God is not the petty, egotistical tyrant that some that call themselves "christian" would have people believe, rather God is a Being of Love, Pure Love and one day ALL WILL KNOW.

God has a Plan and has had a Plan since before creation and His Plan is for ALL and His Plan which is unfolding before our very eyes will come to Fruition.

Take care, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Dr. Chane that has to rank right up their with stupidest comments I've ever heard an educated man make. By that definition all I have to do to Access Bill Gate's 3 billion dollar checking account is change my name to Bill Gates.

What is the nature of the deities involved? If the nature of the God's is different and it has to be then the God's must be different unless you choose to postulate a schizophrenic God.