Serving God and the State

What happened to the Windsor Report, you faux-Christian clown?

I blogged the same thing in Feb. 2004, "Separate the legal and the spiritual in the wedding business - Let the state do the former and the Church the latter" -
http://tinyurl.com/2l2nc

Bingo Rev. Chane!

The question is, how many more of today's clergy understand that to untangle their religion from the civil affairs of the State is to free them to exercise religious liberty in accordance with our Constitution, completely unrestrained by the State?

And how many clergy will choose pure religious liberty over their current privileged status which is dependent on continued entaglement with the State?

To Bishop Chane - good point. I agree completely.

Hopefully you will discuss this with other bishops and use your collective clout to make this change.

To Paganplace: even better point. I agree completely and hope the Bishop takes it to heart.

To Harold: What's your point? If you are interested in explaining it, please try to do so without the use of bible verses.

Thanks

"What the decision of the Supreme Court of California raises for me is that clergy should remove themselves as licensed agents of the state who perform marriages and who should act only as religious who witness and bless the civil contract of marriage if they choose to do so."

What it says to me is that clergy ought to tell their 'flocks' what it means to be a licensed agent of the state to perform marriages, rather than promoting the misapprehension that it's the other way around when it comes to civil law.

I've served at enough weddings myself that the happy couple hardly needs more bureaucracy to deal with, but as clergy, no, it's no church's place to tell the *state* what to do or who can get legally-married.

Seems a lot of Christians are unclear on this point.

Let's just be clear on that, let the state grant equal protection under the law to any who sign said contract, and get on with life.

to the true believers

“the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”

Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

“thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.”

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

“we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”

“the living God, who is the Saviour”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”

“the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice”
“out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field”
“whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
“the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field”
“Adam called his wife's name Eve”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins”

Quoting “that clergy should remove themselves as licensed agents of the state who perform marriages” I think their congregation should do that. Those who are by the cross are ministers of death, destruction, and despair.

Look,
“God created the heaven and the earth”
“creature that hath life”
“living creature after his kind”
“cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind”
“man in our image, after our likeness”
“God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him”

Now look
“Lord God, heavens and of the earth when they were created made the earth and the heavens”
“the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth”
“there was not a man to till the ground.”
“there went up a mist from the earth”
“watered the whole face of the ground”
“Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”
“man became a living soul”

“out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field”
“whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
“the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field”
“Adam called his wife's name Eve”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins”

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

This is the church of the heathen sinner creatures. It is a faith that believes in “human” sacrifice for sin removal. It practices the eating of the flesh and blood of the son of man. These are the Neanderthals, “creatures that hath life” that existed at the ancient times.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

“God created the heaven and the earth”

Look:
Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins

Look
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

“creature that hath life”
“Adam, God created man, in the likeness of God made he him”
“man in our image, after our likeness”
“begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:”

“out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field”
“whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
“the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field”
“Adam called his wife's name Eve”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins”

And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.

“This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands”
“because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.”

These are the gods before the flood, “creature that hath life” “man in our image, after our likeness” “begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:” “living creatures” “the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field” “whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.” “Adam called his wife's name Eve” “because she was the mother of all living” “Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins”

This is the temple of Israel, converts saints angels, their faith began with Abram/Abraham. It does not believe in “the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.”

And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God.
And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.
And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.

“Thus saith the Lord God of Israel”
“I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his seed, and gave him Isaac.”

And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: For God, said he, hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house.
And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.

“For God, said he, hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house.”
“For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

“hath made me forget all my father's house.”
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

And for Aaron's sons thou shalt make coats, and thou shalt make for them girdles, and bonnets shalt thou make for them, for glory and for beauty.
And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.
And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:

“they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
“thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:”

“Cain went out from the presence of the Lord”

naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed
Enos
to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.
These are the words of Job, “Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”

“that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.”
An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

“there went up a mist from the earth”
“watered the whole face of the ground”
“Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground”
“breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”
“man became a living soul”

And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

“he will also bless the fruit of thy womb”
“the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed”
“Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul”

Look at the words of Job
The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.
But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?
With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.

This is the churches of the gentiles
The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly.
But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.

Look
O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker.
For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

“the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice”
“out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field”
“whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
“the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field”
“Adam called his wife's name Eve”
“because she was the mother of all living”
“Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins”

The churches of thee gentiles worship and serve the gods before the flood, new gods, gods of the world. “creatures that hath life” “living creatures” “coats of skins” They have the son of man as the lord of their sabbath. They have not the Sabbath of the LORD.

“Harden not your heart, as in the provocation”
“Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.”

This is the house of Judah (The LORD)

Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?
With the ancient is wisdom; and in length of days understanding.
With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.

Do you see this is mankind, they are created in the womb.

“In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”
“he will also bless the fruit of thy womb”
“the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed”
“Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul”

Do you see what Job said
“With him is wisdom and strength, he hath counsel and understanding.”

Look at the words of Solomon
“Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.”

Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.
By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.
My son, let not them depart from thine eyes: keep sound wisdom and discretion:
So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck.
Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

“The Lord by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.”

“Lord God, heavens and of the earth when they were created made the earth and the heavens”

Do you see this is mankind, they are created in the womb.

“In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.”
“he will also bless the fruit of thy womb”
“the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed”
“Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul”