Time to walk the talk in Mideast

By John L. Esposito and Sheila B. Lalwani

The toppling of the 30-year rule of Hosni Mubarak and new dawn in Egypt, strikes fear of uncertain change in the region in the hearts of many rulers. It has inspired protests in Algeria, Morocco, Jordan, Syria and Yemen; the creation of a political party in Saudi Arabia; and concerns in Iran's Islamic Republic which was so shaken by the Green Movement in its last presidential elections.

The end of the Mubarak regime demonstrates the falsity of commonly held stereotypes: Arabs reject democracy, Islam is incompatible with popular sovereignty, the grip of rulers of security states is unshakable. Pro-democracy protesters were driven by longstanding political and economic grievances: the lack of democracy, a growing gap between a rich minority and the middle class and poor, rampant corruption, rising food prices, high unemployment levels, and lack of opportunity and a sense of a future for young people. Egyptians reclaimed their dignity and control of their lives, demanding an end to widespread corruption as well as government accountability and transparency, rule of law, human rights and the right to determine the government and destiny of Egypt.

The uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt have revealed a broad-based pro-democracy movement that is not driven by a single ideology or by religious extremists. What has occurred is not an attempt at an Islamist takeover but a broad based call. As their signs, placards, statements and demands demonstrate protesters want Egyptian unity, speak of one Egypt and sing the Egyptian national anthem; they wave Egyptian flags not Islamist placards. People from every walk of life, professionals and laborers, were united in a common cause.

Surprising? Not really. The Gallup World Poll of more than 35 Muslim majority countries, representing the voices of a billion Muslims, had reported that in Egypt and in most Muslim countries, majorities surveyed wanted greater democratization, freedoms and the rule of law. That said, regrettably, the U.S. and many European countries continued long standing policies to support authoritarian regimes, security states. Despite America's claim to promote democracy and human rights as the Bush administration acknowledged, America (under all recent presidents) has had a legacy of "democratic exceptionalism," what many have seen as a "double standard, supposed American promotion of democracy globally, but support for authoritarian regimes in the Muslim world. This policy while attractive to authoritarian allies and their entrenched elites fed anti-Americanism and fears of Western intervention, invasion, occupation and dependency.

The Way Forward:

Washington has monitored the situation in Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen closely. In his State of the Union address, President Obama spoke of Egypt and did so again during the Super Bowl with Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly. President Obama has reiterated his support for the people of Egypt, but those words must be backed up with clear actions.

We live in a changing multi-polar world that requires, as President Obama has acknowledged consistently from early in his administration, mutual respect and cooperation. The challenge for American and European policymakers will be to move beyond equating protection of national interests with the stability and security of regimes, beyond fear of the unknown, of a process whose outcome it cannot control, to a policy based on American principles of self-determination, democracy and human rights.

A new framework based on working with democratically elected governments in Egypt, Tunisia and other countries in the region does risk a less predictable future, working with more independent governments with their own vision of their national interests. As we do with many other countries, allies and non-allies, around the world, our relations will be based on national interests and common strategic political, economic and military interests. In contrast to the past, the US should place primary emphasis on investment in Egyptian educational, economic and technological rather than military assistance, working particularly with independent NGOs. Our efforts should be self-consciously multi-lateral, bringing an end, as President Obama has emphasized to American unilateralism.

However, multilaterialism also means American partnerships in economic development in Egypt with wealthy Egyptian businessmen, who need to invest more in their own economy, as well as Arab oil countries and companies rather than simply American initiatives that put up the risk capital. We need to acknowledge that there is a new narrative in the Middle East. Critical as the Egyptian people move forward will be that same sense of national unity in building a democratic, pluralistic, multi-party political system that represents the diversity of Egyptian society. This will also be important to assure that the future of Egypt is not hijacked by the military. While the military has promised to oversee the transition to democracy, many in the senior military have entrenched interests of power and privilege, business interests, and a culture of military rule: All of the leaders of modern Egypt have been ex-military --see Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak. They have risen up through the ranks due to their loyalty as well as talents. On the other hand if the pro-democracy movement, however diverse, can remain united in its pressure for democratization and the US and Europe can play a strong constructive role; especially with economic, technological, educational rather than military aid and especially support independent NGOs and other civil society organizations, that can make a big difference.

But what about the danger of a Muslim Brotherhood takeover?

It's time to look at the empirical evidence. Since the late 20th century, far from being advocates of religious extremism, the Muslim Brotherhood like other Islamically-oriented candidates and political parties in Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia have opted for ballots, not bullets. Among the Brotherhood's most vigorous critics (and enemies) have been Egyptian militants, including Al-Qaeda's Ayman al-Zawahiry. For decades the Muslim Brotherhood, though officially illegal, has proven to be the largest and most effective non-violent opposition movement, politically and socially within mainstream Egyptian society. In contrast to radical extremist Egyptian organization, the Brotherhood has competed and done well in elections, despite constant government harassment, including imprisonment and detention without charge or conviction. And it has remained non-violent. On the other hand, the Mubarak government had a decades-long track record of repression, rigged elections, and used violence by government goons to intimidate and harass all secular and Islamist opposition. It controlled the creation of and regulated non-government civil society organizations and the media, and used military tribunals to circumvent Egypt's independent-minded courts.

But what about the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in this period of political change and in a post-Mubarak Egypt?

The Brotherhood will no doubt continue to have an influential role; however, in a new more open and pluralistic political climate, they will be one of many potential political players and parties. The Muslim Brotherhood, like Tunisia's Ennahada and many other Islamist parties in the past elections, absent other political choices, were the only game in town. They garnered the votes not only of their members and supporters but also of those who wanted to express their opposition or disfavor with the government. The Brotherhood neither initiated nor led Egypt's protest movement. Many experts believe their core of support would come from about 25% of the population at best. In free and fair elections with a multi-party system, they would certainly be important but not necessarily a dominant factor. And indeed, Muslim Brothers like all other Egyptians have a right to participate in elections and be represented in government. Moreover, the Brotherhood has indicated that it will not run a candidate for president nor seek cabinet positions in the upcoming election.

The Egyptian people, like the Tunisians, have every reason to celebrate their triumph and enjoy a sense of empowerment, and the U.S. has every reason to pick up the gauntlet that the new transfer of power in Egypt and Tunisia and the continued process of political transformation in the Middle East presents. Barack Obama went to Cairo early in his presidency and affirmed his "unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn't steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. Those are not just American ideas, they are human rights, and that is why we will support them everywhere." When it comes to dealing with pro-democracy forces, let's walk the way we have talked.

In the political transition that follows, emerging governments and reformers in Tunisia and Egypt will be challenged to form a national unity government, to demonstrate commitment to political liberalization, civil society and human rights by fostering the development of those civil institutions and values that support democratization. The litmus test will be the extent to which their policies and actions reflect an acceptance of basic democratic freedoms, diversity of opinion, multiple political parties and civil society organizations, as well as an appreciation for the concept of a "loyal opposition" rather than viewing alternative voices and political visions as a threat to the political system.

By John Esposito | February 15, 2011; 2:48 PM ET Save & Share:
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CREDIT "JJ", http://onwapo.wordpress.com

Posted by: wiki-truth | February 21, 2011 8:47 PM
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Ooooppsssa.

In Order To CONTROL or Minimize Space-Ship Earth innate "HEATING//VENTILATION//AIR-CONDITIONING" problemo;

[THIS] WORLD must unite and Each Nation Shall Make it Their Business To CONTROL-BIRTH's therein (based on a Globall Target Birth/System) in order to take the Strain off of EARTH's Holyi ECO-SYSTEMS & FAMILY.

Note: Unfortunately, in this futuristic/imminent society that "BIRTH-CONTROL" (even in the ARAB/AFRO Areas) will be or should be greatly Enforced to Avoid ABORTIONS 1st and or Hard-Ships 2nd.

Note again: IF Ye & or Yo's can't Afford Ye own Flesh/Blood & Tears and or Can't Raise CHILDREN after making them (Accidentally or Planndally) or not determined/committed to nature-to-mature such entity's for so many years, in AMERICA or elsewhere then Do NOt have them 100 watt Biofinite-Carbon-Based Forms!!. THEREFORE

a (Avoidable) Strain on the [GOVERNMENTAL] SYSTEM (Man-Made Institutions; Forget Churches) is a Strain & a Pain for "THE-PEOPLE" (IT-Made; not man-made) too.

So, This scenario also apply's to sucha thing as United Stated Of South America, Not Only United States of Europe (Eventually With RUSSIA), and a Greater United States of NORTH AMERICA (Imagine adding 75 States to our current 50 States?), or

"United States of MIDDLE Asia, United States of Middle-East and or United States of SOUTH ASIA & or United State of GCC" (with their Own Currencies?) etc..

Remember: EARTH will out-live HUMANs any day any time any place; Here Now or Future there. Even if MAN attacks each other simultaneously releasing/Exploding ALL the Nuclear Bombs in their Stockpiles. SOO,

WE [i] NEED (Space Ship) EARTH; and EARTH does not Need US! [THIS] Planet is going to not only more safer but (if S.S. GAIA or S.S. GEOiD or S.S. TELLUSng something is really Conscious), but More Happy'r; W/out US pain in da OSS's! AYE???

After all; HUUMATE(s) or HUMAN(s) have another +/- 1.144 Billion Years left to Enjoy [HERE] via TEMPeerature Prophecy., Before Another Holyi "DUE-TO-BE" moment takes place again, somewhere, somehow, some time (clocks/Sundials) via Holyi TIME (TEMPeratures).

.
.

PREDICTION: IF not "BIRTH-CONTROL" then When the Current Modern World or Self Sufficient Worlds Do NOt or NO londer DEpend on or Need any PETRO/LNG from None-self-Sufficient NATIONS/COUNTRY's whom supply it THEN

What Uprising(s) by the young'n Ye Yo all witt/See'th Today, is only a Small Fraction of The "REAL PEOPLE-UPRISING-EXPLOSION" which will seem like the real END OF TIME via Biblio/Quranic/Geetaic Prophecy/EPOCHs/ERA's but, Nay quite!

Posted by: ITs-TIME | February 20, 2011 1:01 PM
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EGYPY//AEGYPT Should gather it's Army//People and

INVADE LIBYA To "LIBERATE" 'the-people' (Due to be Secularize via RULE-OF-LAW, nay Sharia/Halacha etc..) thereof/from/at! AND

THEN "UNITE AS ONE NATION, Possibly With THREE NATIONs , IF include TUNISIA.

Note; Can also contemplate Including MOROCCO into the New "United-State Of North Africa" [EGYPT + TUNISIA + LIBYA + MOROCCO];

"iMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES."

Time To truly SECULARIZE Libya et al Now!, YES?

PS: IF IF, IF they Do Listen ti i[US] APOCALYPTARIAN(s) ofd Space-Ship Earth, that They should Incorporate The Exact Copy of the "UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION" (As Is). This is the "WILL-of-HOPE" becoming Reality or like a Fantasy, for Such Pre-Apocalyptic thinkers thus far awakening towards thinking in APOCALYPTIC ways for their own SPACE-FORTH & FUTURE-BOUND" Endeavors post "911" Epoch et seq.!

WILL THIS BE DANGEROUS? NO!!!

Note: Better Yet (After SUDAN gets Seperate-STATEhood) That LESS NATION(s) there, especially AFRICA, is Better For The World, not Only Themselves. The Worlds & their 193 Nations Should "UNITE (not DIVITE)" more. 99 Nations will Be Better. And Less Currecy's Too.

iMPORTANT: Whether The POPULATION of [Nebula-Built] Space-Ship Goes UP-Town (currently around 7 BILLion) or Down-Town that

LESS NATIONS & or LESS CURRENCIES Always will "Benefit the Beneficiaries" of S.S. GEOID, Earth, Gaia, Blue-Dot, TELLUSng something in the [Hoped-For] long run anyway!

So, YES, [try] DOing with "LESS IS BESTa."

After All, Our 'Prophet' {pbuh} Hir Albert Einstein & Others like Him {pbu Them} said,

"Tings shoood bve maeda az zimple az pozzzooble".

2nd Important thing:

Keep a close eye out for that "PAN-ARABISM" & or PAN ISLAMICISM "via the quasi EGALITARIAN"ism thing.
.

Posted by: ITs-TIME | February 20, 2011 11:59 AM
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R A I H A N S H A F I Q et al;

MAHABARrrr (Hello):

H-i-S-T-O-R-Y is our JURY(Judge & Witness).

ISHLAMi, ESAUi, Ummah/Community/Sangha, is Following-AMERICA, nay America Following Them. ALL seen today is only a "HICCUP" not a "BURP in terms of a "Solution to {Monarchic//Theological//Nepotistic) Pollution" in the 42 "OIC" Islamic Nations.

This sudden "BELTCH", not a "FARrrT" of a movement is about the YOUNG'n "BEiNG LEFT BEHIND & ATTEMPTING TO CATCHING-UP(SOCIAL-[MODERN]-JUSTICE)PHASE: IN iSLAMIC NEIGHBORHOOD(s) ON SPACE-SHIP EARTH" not elsewhere! Here's me ANALOGYs:

i.e., The American "BOSTON TEA PARTY" happened (1773-1775; before 1776). Now that was 285 years ago! THEN came

The NAPOLEON I "Turning [Monarch] Europe Upside Down" thing. And that was in the 1799-1812+. Or 200 Years ago. THEN came

WAR WAR ONE(1); And the Defeat of the [ISLAMIC] Caliphate/Sultanic Versus lovers OTTOMAN(S) EMPIRE who finally got defeated by KAFIRS//GOYS//CASTES et al around 1923-1299 CE/AD. And that was 88 Years ago.

Note: This (Remnant) result.effect Resulted in today's MIDDLE-EAST quagmire that Ye & YO's art SEE'n & HEAR'n & FEEL'n bout Today. So,

What Ye & Yo's art witnessing, besides QURAN/BIBLE/GEETA Prophecy-unfoldings, HERE & abroad, and Who's Time'th cometh & over due through the Younger MEME/GENE-Pools whom hath awakened & art DOings; [THIS] these things as anticipated-REACTION or for JUST

Results/Actions for-them-protesters, rejecting "MONARCHY" & "THEOCRACY" etc.., in Mid-East & Elsewhere, which SYSTEM(s) must be Over-Ruled, "BY THE PEOPLE & FOR THE PEOPLE" of course, as the old-time 'RELIC"S (PRE-APOCALYPTIC) from the post MIDDLE AGES are comming down via the entire ISHLAMI's//ESAUi's, UMMAH-Community/Sangha's DEMANDing, from the Old Establishment Leaderships (parents, Elders, Religionists etc..) to the NEWER for "SOCIAL JUSTice_+". aka Demand-CHANGE, like in "YES WE [i] CAN!" unfolding?

Note: WE APOCALYPTARIANS (not Pre-Apocalyptarians) watched Ex-Prez George W. BUSH being the Modern-NAPOLEON, and now Prez B.H. OBAMA is DO'n Phase-2 of NAPOLEON-Cleansing0Effect in Middle-EAST includes North, South & West from WASHINGTON, D.C & CO not JERUSALEM, VATICAN, NOt MECCA, DELHI etc.

SO, "WE ARE THE WORLD" Generation or "PEACE-SIGN GENERATION" & or the WE "THINK GLOBALLY 1st & LOCALLY 2nd" GENEs, Movement etc. is a Late Starter; Nay a New Starter but simply a Phenomena who's time is finally riping/Maturing; For WORLD-PEACE, HEALING OF NATIONS+" via HOPE

iMPORTANT: i[WE] the APOCALYPTARIAN-PARTY of the U.S.A. & elsewhere via the Worlds 'VOTARY-ASSOCIATES" Int'l, will TRUST BUT VERIFY" ALL the current-Events happen'n on [Nebula-Built] Space-Ship. Especially in the ISHLAMi & ESAUi Ummah's.

VOTE: "IN "IT" WE TRUST"!
"something to LiVE for, NOt to die-for NEW-AGE.
NOT:
"IN GOD WE TRU$T"?
NOT:
"something to die for instead of LiVE-for," OLD-AGE!

Posted by: ITs-TIME | February 20, 2011 9:37 AM
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Well said, professor. The reorientation of US posture in the Middle East is necessary not only because it just and long overdue but also it will have positive impact on long-term US security interest. The Arab streets are now speaking using the language of protest, not the language of extremism and terrorism. If they are frustrated and their demands are not met, the language of protest may slide to the language of extremism. USA certainly does not want that outcome. The American people also should look at the Arab people from a humanistic perspective. For too long many Americans believed what the Middle Eastern monarchs and autocratic rulers wanted them to believe about Muslim population (they are ready for democracy, blah blab..) and what the so-called security experts told them. So, keeping in social justice in mind, treat the Middle Eastern common people with respect and support their cause for a better world.

Posted by: raihanshafiq | February 20, 2011 12:23 AM
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PS:

IN IT WE TRUST"

'Something To Live For!'

NOt

"IN GOD WE TRU$T"

'Something To DIE For!'

Posted by: ITs-TIME | February 19, 2011 7:54 PM
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AMAZING, NO GRACE!

IT IS TIME for the PALESTINIAN(s) Ummah/Community/Sangha to CHANGE THEIR PRE-APOCALYPTIC Constitution. No 'GOD," No 'ALLAH,' NO ISLAM, NO STATE-RELIGION. PURE SECULARanity. Note: SECULARanity is a RELIGION!

Note again: Palestinians & ARABs should not be concerned with the current wise-guys Quasi 'JEWish STATE' of Ere{tz? as RELIGION. Since Israel Does NOT HAVE a pure Constitution means, unlike Palestine, Has CHALACHA (Sharia like Rule) Instead of Constitution. Hence Why They Think They can Play 'Victim' anymore. ANYWAY,

i [WE] just read an Article about a 'Minister of the Knesset' (MK) an ARAB ISRAELi Politician named Ibrihin Sarsour of the "RA'AM' (United Arab List) who said, "OBAMA CAN GO TO HEL{L.." after U.S. via U.N. Vetoed for Israel flouting International Laws etc.. Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_List

EXCERPT: "The party was established prior to the 1996 elections, and was joined in an electoral alliance by the Arab Democratic Party (which held two seats in the outgoing parliament) and the southern faction of the Islamic Movement. The party initially went under the title of Mada-Ra'am, Mada being the acronym and common name for the Arab Democratic Party. In the elections, the party won four seats. During the Knesset term, the Arab Democratic Party became a faction within the United Arab List, and its name was dropped from the party title." AND see:

http:// www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=208962

EXCERPT: "US President Barack Obama betrayed the Palestinians and the Arab world by instructing the American delegation to the United Nations to veto a Security Council resolution condemning Jewish settlements in the West Bank as illegal, United Arab List MK Ibrahim Sarsour wrote in an open letter to Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas Saturday." AND see;

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Palestine_(2003)

EXCERPT: ARICLE 35 & 49; “I swear to Allah{Almighty to be faithful to the Homeland.. to safeguard the interests of the Palestinian people completely, as Allah is my witness“.

ARTICLE 4; "1. Islam is the official religion in Palestine. 2. "The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be the main source of legislation."

Note: Interestingly "GOD" or G-D or god or LORD etc.. not used Except for, "ALMIGHTY" is used, as the Freudian Slip of Genuine Prophecy here. "ALMIGHTY" surely sounds better than "ALLAH" even Entity or is it Deity?, though compounded, they imply the same thing.

Last Note: This "ALMIGHTY" Shall never imply as being either a "HE" or being a "SHE", but only Being "IT" is best application for godly Expressions, if Any.

PS: For Brevity Sake: Check Out ISRAELS proposed {A WORK IN PROGRESS?} CONSTITUTION site:

www.cfisrael.org//home.html

EXCERPT: ".. The Committee seeks to create a constitution that represents all members of Israeli society.."

OYE...!

Posted by: ITs-TIME | February 19, 2011 7:49 PM
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Posted by: ITs-TIME | February 19, 2011 7:39 PM
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Dr. Esposito opines regarding the muslim Brotherhood that "Many experts believe their core of support would come from about 25% of the population at best."

Just exactly how does this square with recent Zogby and Pew Research polls of Egyptians showing that 80%-90% believe that islamic values and sharia law (you know; stoning for adultery, death for apostasy, cutting of limbs for theft, oppression of women, persecution of homosexuals and religious minorities) should play a major role in Egypt's new "democratic" government.

Add to this the other attitudes indicated by these polls (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2672357/posts), and one can see that "free and fair" elections in Egypt would likely result in the "one man, one vote, but only just the one time" outcome of the Gaza elections of 2006. I won't hold my breath for Hamas to subject themselves to any further experiments in "free and fair" elections any time in the near future.

It's about like the electorate here in the U.S. voting the Gambino crime family into power, and then expecting them to abide by "democratic" principles.

It appears to me that, based on these polls, a large majority in Egypt wish to willingly embrace the totalitarian theocracy offered by the Brotherhood, rather than a secular democracy.

Posted by: EddietheInfidel | February 18, 2011 8:59 PM
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And this from a professor who is paid by a Saudi prince to mouth nothing but niceties about Islam!!!

Posted by: YEAL9 | February 15, 2011 6:00 PM
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Great Article. But, as I said it when this so called "Revolution" started in Egypt, this is a PREEMPTIVE REVOLUTION and it has had a controlled out come and we see it today. The Military is still in charge and they still report to Mubarak and us.

At best this was a military Cud eta. No Revolutionary leader has emerged from the opposition because they know better. Even El-Baradae is not talking and is not taking charge. On his interviews he is tight lipped and will not open up to a real criticism of Mubarak or us, because he knows he can become a martyr quick. The opposition felt the force at the end when they got beat up some by the military force in the Tahrier Square.

There are still some hard core revolutionary there but they all know they have to pay by blood to get what they really are looking for. The Military will not be on our side in the future. However, the idea has spread among them. started in Egypt, this is a PREEMPTIVE REVOLUTION and it has had a controlled out come and we see it today. The Military is still in charge and they still report to Mubarak and us.

Posted by: Esther_Haman | February 15, 2011 4:59 PM
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Sir,
I would offer a counter to your thoughts on the Muslim Brotherhood - The recent comments by Muhammad Ghannem that all Egyptians should prepare for war and are in-line with their long standing anti-Israel policy.
As reported @ just journalism: Muhammad Mahdi ‘Akif, who headed the organisation between 2004 and 2010:
‘Addressing what he describes as the foreign occupation of Iraq, Palestine, and Afghanistan, the MB’s General Guide ‘Akif has been calling upon all Muslims to support the resistance (muqawamah) there. In a missive entitled “Jihad and Martyrdom [Istishhad] are the Way to Glory and Victory,” for example, he stated that Islam regards resistance against occupation “a jihad for God”.’
Further statements by ‘Akif suggest that all of Israel is regarded as a legitimate target:
‘‘Akif declared that Zionists, civilians and soldiers, should be killed, because the “Zionist people” as a whole is an armed military that occupies Palestine, and there is no difference between military Zionists and civilian ones.’
Muslim Brotherhood could be an understated threat; however, history does show that their ability to influence politics and ideology in the region is significant. Furthermore, it is a bit dismissive to suggest that MB is not a threat to peace in the region. I would offer that Israel and the Palestinian Authority should be concerned about the peace treaty.
It could be a little optimistic to state that the rule of law will prevail in Egypt when the military is in charge of the country. The lack of a functioning liberal constitution will provide a greater opportunity for protracted military rule. Inviting the MB to the table is great way to appease an opposition group and the people in general, without actually making any changes.
The recent appointment of El-Bishri, who is a Nasserist with Islamist leanings (he graduated in college 1953), is viewed as a moderate among his peers. Can he connect with the youth that took to the streets? It does answer the call by Al-Arian to have the courts run the country…sort of.
Research does bear witness to the fact that when a country surrenders itself to military rule about 30 percent of the time that country will find its way to the liberal constitutional law (democracy/rule-of-law). Tantawi has been in his position for a very long time because of his ability to influence the military and politics - Tantawi is very clever. The tragic thing about change is that people rarely take the time to ask what change is going to look like. Mubarak needed to go, however, time will bear witness to the fact that the Egyptian people deserved something better than what they were just handed.

Posted by: jeaves_30 | February 15, 2011 4:58 PM
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