The Christian case for Mormon values

Sorry my last post should have been directed to answer "Vanka's" comments not Bot1. Sorry for the mistake.

Bot1,

I am sorry that you find ALL mormons to be so offensive. If I measure with your yardstick then ALL atheists (if that is what you are) are angry, judgemental people.

We don't "try to make us believe they are "really nice". That is a ridiculous statement. There are 14 million of us, and I am sure there are some that are not "nice people" to be sure. Just like there are athesist,"mainstream" christians, and muslims that are not particularly nice all the time.

You are welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Many people like to look at Mormon history and pull out bits and pieces to make us look "evil" or wrong. Anyone with half a brain can do that. But to look at our history in a complete, honest fashion rarely shows us to be bad people as you assert. Besides, what someone did in the name of Mormonism 100 years ago, has nothing to do with the kind of person I am today. Just like the horrific things Christian and Muslims did during the "Crusades" dosen't reflect on those groups today.

I do not "quote their "Articles of Faith" and other scriptures from their "Standard Works" in an attempt to convince you they are "mainstream" and Christian." I do not care if anyone thinks I am "mainstream" or Christian. By definition I AM Christian because I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe he died for my sins and paved the way for me to return to my Heavenly Father. Without his sacrifice I can not overcome the mistakes that are inevitable in this life. That makes me Christian, no matter what your opinion is on the matter. I will be judged by no one but my Savior, Jesus Christ.

As far as mainstream goes, I have no desire to be mainstream, because to me mainstream is what someone is when they are trying to follow the crowd. Not necessiarily following the strength of their own convictions.

You certainly have the right to your own opinions and beliefs, but so do the millions of kind, hard working, family oriented Mormons around the world.

Bot1

Actually, ATHEIST have the BEST understanding of religion and Christianity according to the Pew research! That says a lot.

Mormons try to make us believe they are "really nice people", but their history as well as current events contain facts that show it is all veneer - all keeping up appearances (like a wolf wearing a nice wool sweater).

Mormons will quote their "Articles of Faith" and other scriptures from their "Standard Works" in an attempt to convince you they are "mainstream" and Christian.

But we know from history that Mormons believe the word of their living leaders above scripture, and they are not above "lying for the Lord".

Case in point: The Mormon Church leader told all Mormons to "do all you can" to fight against same-sex marriage (Prop 8 in
California). This despite the fact that LDS scriptures clearly state:

"It is NOT JUST for religions to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied" (D&C134). This shows without doubt that Mormons and their leaders will violate THEIR OWN sacred scriptures and principles when it suits them.

Even polygamy was continued secretly for around 10 years after LDS Church leaders lied and swore to Congress that the practice had ceased in the Church (see Quinn).

This means that not only will common Mormons lie for the Lord (the Church), so will the Church leaders! Even under oath to Congress!

So stop denying what your Church really is: a secretive, elitist, imperialistic cult aspiring to "put an end to all nations", and rule the world for a thousand years when "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" that the Mormon Jesus is in charge!

It is written clearly in their Temple oaths and covenants that members are expected to give all their possessions and use all their positions and opportunities ("everything with which the Lord has blessed you or may bless you") for the building up of the LDS Church. This includes oaths to give one's life for the building up of the LDS Church. That is an explicit oath regarding a willingness to "give one's life" (suicide) for the Church.

These are not oaths to do good, or to die for God or Jesus, in some abstract, harmless sense. These are radical oaths and covenants of loyalty to the Leaders of a Cult Church! In the Temple recommend "catechism", Mormons covenant that they sustain the President of the LDS Church as "the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all [God's] priesthood keys?"

The LDS Temple ceremonies at the time Mitt Romney was "endowed" included graphic depictions of cutting one's throat, disemboweling oneself, and other acts of suicide as a penalty for revealing the secret oaths and failing to be faithful to them.

We do not need a cult member in the Whitehouse.

I'd like to thank Mr. Reynolds for a fair minded article. It is refreshing to read a piece that doesn't belittle the LDS church and beliefs. However, many of the posted responses are uninformed at the least and bigoted against "Mormons" at the worst.

I am LDS and really appreciate when intelligent people can agree to disagree. I have many non-LDS family and friends, not all of which are kind about my beliefs. However, I find peace in my religion that I have not found in other denominations. I do however, get tired of "outsiders" telling me what I believe or what the church teaches.

There is a culture many find distasteful in Utah. I lived there for 12 years and even though I am LDS I choose to move my family to Arkansas. There are wonderful people there to be sure, but the "world" does exist even there. I wanted my children to grow up knowing that they were different, not assumming everyone was the same yet seeing the same kids drunk saturday night that show up at church sunday morning. Instead my children shine like the city on top of the hill. They are tops in their school classes, are leaders in their schools and community and have given others not of our faith the courage to stand up for their own beliefs and be different.

As for those that insist on "educating" the world about what my church teaches. You just make yourself sound petty. I am not racist. We have many black members who have found comfort in our faith. I have never been belittled as a women, but rather held in high esteem. There are many women who hold positions of influence and leadership in the church, both locally and back in Salt Lake. And I do believe in a prophet and find it comforting that I am not left to sift through various religious matters without that support. However, I am always encouraged to pray for my own confirmation and testimony in all matters, even advice and instruction given by our beloved prophet, just as any LDS political leader would be. We are certainly are not mind-numbed robots (see Harry Reid,Mitt Romney, and Orin Hatch)We cover the political spectrum without religious reprocussion.

The church does not mandate I live my life in any particular way, I have lived my life on both sides of the moral fence, yet now find peace in following the teachings of Jesus Christ and the LDS church.All people should have the right to follow their own conscious to what ever end, but please don't belittle my right to make those choices for myself.

Glenn Beck is not recognized as any type of religious authority. And as a political authority, not respected as much as many would assume.

The vast majority of Mormons I know don't agree with Beck -and most of those simply don't like him. I for one, can't stand his show.

Also, while Mormons are still on the whole conservative, there has been a huge backlash against the Republican party since George W. You could say it really started during George Senior's years. In the last election, more BYU students voted for Obama than McCain. Mormons aren't political sheep. They'll do what they believe is right.

JMR: My professional speaking has included pointed academic encounters with LDS professors about our areas of disagreement. Simultaneously, serious disagreements have not prevented our making common cause on many issues.
Truh especially agrees with the idea that
good people can work together for a common belief; and that they might possibly learn to believe a principle on which they had previously Disagreed. Christ wants us all to come to a UNITY of faith.
Once, Truh and several other "older" gents were struggling to help a single mother move her belongings out of her apartment (across the street from Biola U.) and into a distant truck. Three Biola students returning to their apartment in the same complex, saw our need and accepted my invitation to help us "sweat the heavy stuff" out to the van. Their joy-in-service (even though it helped some Mormons) is typical of what a man of God does...he helps others.

FredJ1,

I agree. However, the status of J. Reuben Clark as an apostle and member of the first presidency carried heavy weight with the Mormons, and his comments--only one year after the war--were public and in a forum (LDS conference) where such statements are typically considered by Mormons as statements of doctrine.

More recently LDS leaders have made similar cautions about war. However, perhaps the most ingrained LDS attitudes about war come from the Book of Mormon in which strict guidelines are given for when war is justified.

For example, pre-emptive strikes were forbidden in the Book of Mormon, and pushing even a defensive war into the homeland of the enemy was avoided. That is, justifiable war was strictly a matter of homeland defense.

On the other hand, Mormon servicemen seem willing to serve in whatever capacity is needed (overseas or at home) if they feel a war is justified in order to defend our freedoms and homeland security. However, these doctrinal cautions ought to make practicing Mormons generally less trigger-happy than those who have not been given religious reasons for exercising restraint.

Mormons’ theology is based on First Century Christianity, not Fourth Century Creeds. For example, the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views on Baptism, Lay Ministry, the Trinity, Theosis, Grace vs. Works, the Divinity of Jesus Christ comport more closely with Early Christianity than any other denomination. And Mormons’ teenagers have been judged to “top the charts” in Christian Characteristics by a UNC-Chapel Hill study. Read about it here:

http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com

It is good to see someone, such as Mr. Reynolds, who are willing to dispel shibbōleths.

Mormons have a better understanding of Christianity than any other denomination, according to a 2010 Pew Forum poll:

http://www.pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx

11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were non-Trinitarian Christians. Those who insist on their narrow definition of Christianity are doing our Republic an injustice.

By their reasoning, many Founders would be ineligible for public office today.

@MNARICH: re the atom bomb.

That would have been an unpopular opinion at the time - I doubt that it represented the majority view inside the Mormon church, and certainly not outside - so we can salute the humanity of the man who held that view.

However, the truth is that _far_ more people were killed in the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo than were killed by the use of the atom bomb in WWII.
-----------------

It's a different story in our time, when the destructive power of atomic weapons is orders of magnitude greater than that effected by conventional weapons.

One of myriad reasons why candidates for the "trigger" must be carefully vetted.

Great article. Besides the emphasis on family values and honesty in government, the Church is warning us about our courts through the Book of Mormon: “And now behold, I say unto you, that the foundation of the destruction of this people is beginning to be laid by the unrighteousness of you lawyers and your judges. (Alma 10:27.)” The condition of our courts should be given priority. It would be nice to have a leader in the White House who is aware of the danger of the courts in killing family values through some of their silly rulings that have a tendency to do nothing to support the basic unit of our society.

Someone mentioned being worried about an LDS president having a finger on the "nuclear button"

FYI here is a response to the atomic bombs dropped on Japan from late LDS apostle and member of the LDS first presidency (and undersecretary of state for President Calvin Coolidge) J. Reuben Clark:

“Then as the crowning savagery of war, we as Americans wiped out hundreds of thousands of civilian population with the atom bomb in Japan, few if any of the ordinary civilians being any more responsible for the war than were we and perhaps no more aiding Japan in the war than we were aiding America. Military men are now saying that the atom bomb was a mistake. It was more than that: it was a world tragedy.…And the worst of the atomic bomb tragedy is not that not only did the people of the United States not rise up in protest against this savagery, not only did it not shock us to read of this wholesale destruction of men, women and children, and cripples, but that it actually drew from the nation at large approval of this fiendish butchery.”

(From a 1946 LDS General Conference speech)

I recently read an article on a "Christian" website lamenting that only one contestant in the Miss America Pageant chose to wear the one-piece swimsuit during competition. The lament was not just that there was only one, but more importantly that that one person was Miss Idaho, a Mormon and not the "Christian" winner.

Unless I misunderstand Mr Reynolds point, I believe he is making the same general point in his article. Mormons strive to live a standard that is not only in line with, but often a step above what is expected of Mainstream Christians in the USA - So, why would a Republican Christian question their ability to lead the country?

This isn't about Mormonism being theologically right or wrong - Reynolds actually asserts that he believes that it is theologically incorrect. What it is about is what is at the core of the values of the majority of Mormons in the USA - which is devotion to country and devotion to conservative moral values. These are key tenants of the Mormon faith that translate directly into political commonalities.

Angels, visions, polygamy, seer stones all fall outside of the political realm and are no more extreme then what one finds in the Bible.

Unwelcoming or odd Mormon cultural idiosyncrasies are often lamentable, but demonstrate the fallibly of the individual and are preached directly against. If you have any doubt read the words of the Mormon leaders.

Control of a presidential candidate by the Church can easily be dispelled as a possibility when one looks at the dynamic nature of the political spectrum within Mormonism.

Congratulations to Mr Reynolds to diving into the crux of the issue of a possible Mormon presidential candidate. Removing cultural or theological differences, Republicans will find ideal and qualified candidates within the ranks of the Mormon Church.

Unlike Mr Reynolds, I would vote for Sen Reid over either of the potential Mormon candidates.

Thank you for your honest, accurate, and straightforward post.

I loved this line: "Of course, there is a vocal fringe of Americans who think any religious person is nuts. These equal-opportunity offenders can be ignored as invincibly ignorant."

It's a great foil to point up the wildly irrational nature of the anti-Mormon comments that always pop up whenever the LDS church is mentioned.

--From an LDS woman, who knows, firsthand, that she is a First-Class citizen . . . who has encountered far more bigotry and sexism outside of the LDS church than in it.

Nice to see a positive reaction to the Church in the mainstream media. Those who know faithful members of the Church would agree they are worthwhile and productive members of society.

In any group (including the LDS Church) of significant size there will be anomalies (in conduct in this case) but by in large Mormons are as described (or better). A credible volume of false & misleading information persists about the Church (often stoked by enemies/individuals w/ an agenda or a grudge). If you want to learn about what Mormons are and aren't try Mormon(dot)Org. I have a profile: http://mormon.org/me/2P6X-eng/

Thanks for the great article. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I've enjoyed the opportunities to work with those of other faiths on issues where we share common values. As attacks on those of faith grow in our society, it will become increasingly important for believers of all faiths to stand together to protect our freedom of religion and the other values that once made this nation great. I believe that there is much good to be learned from most (if not all) religions. We all should be wary of those who preach avoidance of understanding other viewpoints. While we will often find some things that we "agree to disagree" about, we will also gain new perspectives on our own faith and values which will help us grow closer to our God.

My favorite Mormon values are:

* Teaching alternative marriage with multiple women.

* Teaching that blacks are cursed by God.

* Maintaining women as a second glass members.

* Actively promoting discrimination against gay people.

* That there is one man on earth that is a Prophet and he gets to speak with God for the world. And yes he could get revelations from God to give to a Mormon President.

* And that magic rocks can help you translate ancient languages and find treasures left by ancient people.

Jake D.

I am gratified to see that so many are getting involved. I have a latent distrust of all polititians, but those who espouse the Judeo-Christian ethic are somewhat less mistrusted. I find it offensive that the example of one member of a faith can be the caveat of all the members. Should we condemn all the Catholics because some of their clergy violate young boys? Should we condemn all presidents because one was a womanizer, adulterer or a liar? I think not. One of the greatest gifts God has given us mortals is agency, the ability to choose for ourselves. Sometimes those choices have an effect on the innocent, but believe me, God is watching and will not allow this to go on for much longer. It seems that we all want to live our own lives and never mind the rest or the consequenses of our actions. I believe that we all will have to answer to God for our actions, or non actions, and suffer the consequences. If we could but live the ten commandments we would be far better off, but we have to interpret God´s law and excuse ourselves and our selfish actions. I would much prefer to see a Mormon in the white house that the person that is there now. I believe that God caused this country to be founded on the best of principles and that we are now trying our best, or worst to negate their effort. I believe in God, in a hereafter and a final judgement. Elect a Mormon a Catholic or a Jew, but let him have and follow the tenets that the founding fathers intended. Judge the man on the fruits of his labor, not the uninformed predjudices of the lunatic fringe. As Joshua said; As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.

Thank you John Reynolds for the well-written article.

I wonder at some of the claims in the comments that "the foundation of the Mormon religion is so irrational that I could never vote for a politician who claims to be a follower. To think that said politician would have his finger on the nuclear button is mind boggling."

Presumably such comments are referring to Joseph Smith's claims of revelations or interactions with deity. However, most major religions teach similar origins, whether they be a Christian variety, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, etc.

What is truly mind boggling is that the poster had nothing to say about a long history of U.S. Presidents with a belief in deity, prayer, religion, etc. The poster does not seem to realize that people with religious beliefs have had their finger on the nuclear button all along.

How typical. This writer talked about moral and ethical values which are vital for a restoration of our republic, and with a couple of notable exceptions, everyone has a visceral reaction and attacks religion in general and LDS adherents in particular.

I am a member of the LDS Church, not because I was born in it, or brainwashed into believing it. Certainly things are not perfect in my Church, but that is because it is an organization run by fallible, imperfect human beings. There are still points of doctrine I do not completely understand or completely agree with, but I do my best to learn and grow.

Attitudes I see displayed in these comments apparently mean:
* anyone who follows a spiritual source that is not in lockstep with those of a leftist should not only be excluded from any public office, and in fact, it is perfectly acceptable to insult them or call them mentally ill on that basis.
* an insular, small town attitude that tends to keep 'outsiders' at arms length is entirely the fault of 'Mormons' and not attributable to any other cause.
* anyone who embraces concepts and attitudes similar to our Founding Fathers is obviously a dangerous reactionary, or as the poster said, 'conservative, exclusionary and backwards.'

At a time when our country is under assault from within and without, we need to return to our core values and regain out spiritual strength. This article admirably pointed out some of the things that LDS culture and theology does in an attempt to do so. It is unfortunate that so few want to embrace or even acknowledge what good it does.

Is it better to be right or popular? We see the answer clearly in these comments.

It is interesting to read the comments in response to this article. I also find it curious how much misinformation about the Mormons still persists. Some worry about the perceived control that prevails in the Mormon religion, others tell stories about discrimination, others are concerned because they cannot attend a wedding that is for members only, and others complain that they are being coerced to join or be damned for eternity. I've lived in Utah most of my life, I'm not a Mormon, and have no desire to join, yet I've never experienced any of the negatives that I continually hear about. I have no affiliation with any religion. Last week I was visited by the Baptists, Jehovah's Witness, and a local Born Again group, all wanted to tell me about their religion, and all with their own slant on the "Truth." I'm surprised that the local atheist group hasn't started some sort of door to door missionary program.

While we are splitting hairs about Mormon's in politics Rome is burning! Take a look at our current leader, what is his background? He's spent millions of dollars to seal all of his (and his wife's) life's records, school records, writings, etc... Just pause and ask yourself, what is his religious background and does it meet your expectations? I think you'll find that you don't know anything about this guy! We need to concern ourselves with the background of the individual, we need to understand who we are electing to office, not lump a group into one bucket and cast them out as unacceptable.

Jesus taught, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven." (Luke 6:37)
http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/luke/6.37?lang=eng#36

Thank you, John Mark Reynolds, for your example of Christian discipleship. May the good qualities which you find in others return to you in good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over.

Tracy Hall Jr
hthalljr'gmail'com

@Beaker3: Sorry - neglected to specify an "addressee" for my previous post.

Also:
"For your next post, see if you can't find something positive about "Mormons."

You are perfectly entitled to do that yourself Mr. Beaker - and if you keep your assertions within the bounds of reality (and outside the bounds of apologetics) there will be little room for disagreement.

I'm not sure what "ad-hominem" you find in _any_ of my paragraphs - though perhaps you think that characterizing Joseph Smith as a con-man is unjustified? History says otherwise ...

"You have proven my assertion admirably"

Your assertion can clearly be seen below - and it most certainly _was_ _not_ that Mormons are "humans like the rest of us": it was exactly: "Mormons set a high standard of decent living" - the clear implication being that Mormon culture is unusually moral.

But let us not quibble over mis-characterization - yes we can agree on this I think: Mormon culture exhibits the same pathologies of the greater culture that surrounds it. Mormons can therefore make no claim to exhibiting behavior more moral than any other group.

Thank you, FredJ1. You have proven my assertion admirably. Your Ad Hominem in the second paragraph, and your naive assertions to follow, belie both your knowledge and your objectivity. I know it sounds condescending, but thank you for making my case, including my point that "Mormons" are truly human like the rest of us. For your next post, see if you can't find something positive about "Mormons." It might be easier than you think, should you look to objective sources.

@Beaker3:

"That is, "Mormons" set a high standard of decent living and devotion to their God and country. Some people feel they can't live up to that, so they denigrate those who do."

That is apologetic nonsense and an obvious attempt to divert scrutiny of Mormonism. The idea that "high standards" proceed from a religious con-man and his so-called "church" is absurd.

The past two decades alone have shown that Mormon culture has produced (and continues to produce) its fair share of murderers, financial-scammers, child-molesters, sexual predators (including teachers), etc.

The faith-promoting myth that Mormons exhibit elevated standards of morality is _not_ supported by evidence.

Mr. Reynolds article is given excellent credence merely by the bigoted and uninformed responses of many offering comments. In my personal opinion, some ignorant people are simply scared by "Mormons." That is, "Mormons" set a high standard of decent living and devotion to their God and country. Some people feel they can't live up to that, so they denigrate those who do.

I live in Utah. I understand that there are always some people who set a poor example. Any reasonable person understands that it is usually the bad experiences that are mentioned, not the good. Self-righteous "Christians" should remember that a good tree brings forth good fruit. There is no doubt, if one studies objectively, that "Mormonism" is a benefit to society. Perhaps not perfect, because "Mormons" are still human. But decency and honor in life is still far better than the alternative.

Thank you for a fair and balanced article.

The "Doctrinal Statement" of Mr. Reynolds's Biola U. begins "The Bible, consisting of all the books of the Old and New Testaments, is the Word of God, a supernaturally given revelation from God Himself, concerning Himself." That in itself should give anyone pause.

It seems to me pretty much any religion, including Scientology and Voodoo, could make a solid case for sharing American values. I do however question the gullibility of anyone adhering to any of these, including Mormonism.

My late husband was in the mining business, and some years ago we lived in New Mexico. We had friends throughout the industry. Most of the men, like my husband, were in middle and higher management, and almost all of them were staunch Republicans. My husband was independent, and essentially apolitical, and I was and continue to be a liberal Democrat.

Sometime during 1967, (when the primaries were beginning to heat up) we were having a friendly discussion about national affairs with a good friend and colleague of my husband. I asked him who he was supporting in the Republican Primary, and he said "Anybody but Romney". When I asked him why he wouldn't support Romney, he replied it was because Romney was a Mormon. I was shocked at this, and expressed my surprise at his judging a candidate on the basis of his religion. He then said "That's because you've never lived in Utah".

I have since met other non-Mormons who have lived in Utah, and they have expressed the same misgivings about living there. Many, perhaps most of them had placed their children in Catholic or other private schools to avoid the public school system. This of course was a long time ago; perhaps things have changed for the better now. I hope so.

Dallin Oaks speaks very well about defending his rights and freedoms. It's ironic considering while demanding his opinions be respected he and his church funnels millions of dollars to restrict the rights of others.

It's refreshing to read a fair minded and educated opinion about this subject. As a student of Mormon doctrine and history, I agree with the author's assesment of some of the reasons that active Mormons make good citizens. As its previous president, Gordon B Hinkley often said, "The Church makes bad men good and good men better." I would challenge anybody to make an educated claim that this world isn't better off because of the Mormon church.
It provides charity for member and non-member alike, it provides a safe and loving environment for people to learn about and worship their God, it teaches its youth principles that will enrich their lives, it saves and helps marriages and families, it even promotes a law of health that causes its members to outlive non-members by ten years. If people look carefully and thoughtfully at the strength of Mormon Church and its people, they will see that they have a lot to learn.

As long as LDS embraces the hateful divisive Glenn Beck, I will consider those church leaders utter failures. Same for this writer. Their prophet was so enamored with America he moved into the wilderness to have his harem. Please explain to me why tithing is a Christian thing when Jesus only asked for belief in him and God never asking for a single shekel?

I'm awed by anyone who considers getting "information" from Glenn Beck a good thing.

It's an interestingly written article in that it takes a while to get to what Evangelicals and LDS members can agree on: conservative, exclusionary and backwards looking political views.

I hope this is a calm enough forum to let me express the only concern I have about a Mormon president. While I have many Mormon friends and agree with the comments that they are very moral people, I am concerned about the church itself. While this was a similar argument for the Catholic church, I feel that the Mormon church has a lot of control over its members. My discussions with Mormons have included the statements there are regulations to monitor tithing, church activity, and everyday living. I would love to find out if these statements from them are false. I am also worried about some of the prophesies regarding the Mormon who will become president and whether a Mormon President will attempt to fulfill these. I would actually like to be proven wrong, for my vote does hang in the balance. I appreciate the help.

John Mark Reynolds offers an opinion best characterized as, "I never met a prophet I didn't like."

A credulous mindset enables quack-prophets of every stripe - as Messrs. Bernard Madoff and Joseph Smith can equally attest.

The incautious have been shown ad nauseum to entrust both their souls and their money to the most outlandish frauds that North America can produce; sometimes even lives have been donated to charlatans.

Our Creator gave us the gift of intelligence - no doubt with the expectation that we would actually use it, rather than embracing delusion, no matter how seductive the latter.

Joesph Smith was either a charlatan or mentally ill. The foundation of the Mormon religion is so irrational that I could never vote for a politician who claims to be a follower. To think that said politician would have his finger on the nuclear button is mind boggling.

It is all superstition, to delude the goobers and take their money.

We will not survive as a species unless we outgrow our pathetic need for a Cosmic Daddy, a Santa for Grownups, who will love us, punish us, and tell us that we really won't die.

But we will. All of us will return to nothingness, and you can't stand it. Tough.

It is time we stood on our own hind legs and said take a hike to the purveyors of superstition and religion. Haven't we already killed enough people, burned enough folk alive, tortured a sufficient number of victims for the religionists and conservatives to sate their need for brutal violence and self-righteousness?

We must grow up, shed the crutches of this mental illness, and take care of each other. THAT is the only thing we really have.

I'll also respond to John's "Of course, there is a vocal fringe of Americans who think any religious person is nuts . . " comment. First, one doesn't have to believe in the Bible, the Koran or any other religious book to think "we are more than computers made out of meat." We non-believers also are in awe of the wonderful world we live in and appreciate the goodness and potential in our human existence. One can also respect anyone's choice to pursue their own beliefs in their own best interests. That still doesn't lend credence to Christianity, Mormonism, Judaism and Islam and their foundations of bogus fables instilled in their believers from birth. As proof of their false purveyor of the "truth," raise someone in a religious setting in the Middle East and they'll believe in Islam, raise someone in a religious household in the U.S. and they'll believe Christianity, or Mormonism, or Judaism, and "know" their religion to be true. No, don't question politicians' religious beliefs, because if you do, once you get beyond universal truisms such as the golden rule you'll expose the irrational foundation of whatever mainstream religion the politician purports to believe.

Mormon values are not my values. No other religious group excludes family and friends from a wedding because they are not "worthy" or members of the group as do the Mormons if the couple is wed in the temple. I always thought church buildings were God's house and all were welcome there.

As for the prophet speaking as God, forget that. And no women in the hierarchy of the group. Shunning of children who are not Mormon - even mistreatment of those children in school by teachers. Interviewers who ask what ward (small Mormon church) you are in.

Lived in UT for 18 years - experienced too much discrimination and prejudice and downright meanness by Mormons. As an adult, I could fight back, but it really was disgusting to see how my granddaughter was treated not only by Mormon children but by adults. Glad to get out of a religion-dominated state.

The one and only reason US evangelicals would vote Mormon is if he were a Republican. Party has become more important than than anything. So for political considerations they would even vote for, by any definition used before the great merging with the GOP, a false prophet.

John Mark Reynolds

Good article.

I would like to know what aspects of the church of "Jesus Christ" of LDS you disagree with. I used to be catholic but had issues with their doctrine being in conflict with the bible. I dont see that in the LDS church.

Mark
Always seek the truth.

"Of course, there is a vocal fringe of Americans who think any religious person is nuts. These equal-opportunity offenders can be ignored as invincibly ignorant. They don't respect Mormons, because they don't respect Christians, Jews, Muslims, or anybody who thinks we are more than computers made out of meat."

So we are the vocal fringe. I wonder if this author would consider himself fringe when he is in the midst of the Greeks of 25 centuries. They thought Centaurs were real, though not one of them had ever seen or for that matter a Unicorn. Arguing about the virtues of Centaurs and Unicorn is as looney then as it is today. It has not become looney today because of passage of time. Likewise, we the so called vocal fringe do think all your theologies are nuts.

Coming to "Providence works in peculiar ways and it is particularly odd for an evangelical and Orthodox Christian to be grateful for this Mormon moment in American history. But if a Biblical prophet could celebrate the pagan emperor Cyrus for being God's man to free His people, surely we can praise our Mormon countrymen for sounding a trumpet call to rally America to life and liberty."

The so called prophets were not completely nuts. They were sucking up to their benefactor, that was simple decency and they were also aware of the adage "Do not bite the hand that feeds you".