Faith is not an eternal retirement plan

The posting seems to say that worrying about where I will be after my death is not an important issue for the poster. The poster's idea that good deeds performed because one has an expectation of being held accountable for one's actions are not virtuous, that one should be "good for goodness' sake." Well, that is a judgment on the worthiness of the actor. Does she send the actor to heaven or hell for that? Does she mean that it really doesn't matter, since there is no heaven or hell? Does she mean that it is a sin to worry about heaven? If so, she is taking a stand opposite to that of the New Testament, which places a lot of emphasis on worrying about our final status in the judgment, the division between the "sheep" and the "goats" (Matthew 25).

Trying to use words to describe Heaven is like trying to use words to describe God. In either case, if we have to use words, then our concept of Heaven and God are too small.

"We can become so fixated on 'getting into heaven' that all our good deeds become purely selfish..."

Ah Karen, if I do a good work because it makes me feel virtuous, then the deed is diminished? If I save a child because Jesus told me to do it, is the child's life in some way diminished?

For example, I sent money to Jesuit Priests in Haiti because it was reported that they are among the best at helping there. Why did I do it? Because Jesus said: "If you have done this for the least of these, you have done it for me." Is the help less good because I have done it out of Christian conviction that I am moved in some minor way closer to Christ by acting in accord with what he said to us?

Would an empathic belief that we share a common humanity, and I would also like to be helped if in need, also diminish a helpful deed?

Heaven is were the perpetrators of 9/11 will go,according that male dominated social and political system masquerading as a religion.

Armstrong said, "I personally think it best not to try to imagine what we call 'heaven', because it can only be some kind of projection or wish-fulfillment.

I think Armstrong is right, but there are at least a couple of statements regarding heaven which may be classed as FACTS. 1. A vast number of people believe there is some kind of near perfect place or condition, a heaven, and they wan't to go there. 2. Any discription of such heaven is a fantasy.

I do not believe in an afterlife heaven, but I do agree with several panalest that we can do much to improve conditions for self and others while we live. We can experience "heaven within" here and now.

Gospel according to Thomas
113 His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

My mother and sister were talking about going to pearly gates and meeting all our dead relatives and the angels.

I said that I thought heaven and hell are right here, right now.

My sister said that I was full of sh**.

Whitman

Have you practis'd so long to learn to read?
Have you felt so proud to get at the meaning of poems?

Stop this day and night with me and you shall possess the origin of
all poems,
You shall possess the good of the earth and sun, (there are millions
of suns left,)
You shall no longer take things at second or third hand, nor look
through the eyes of the dead, nor feed on the spectres in books,
You shall not look through my eyes either, nor take things from me,
You shall listen to all sides and filter them from your self.

3

I have heard what the talkers were talking, the talk of the
beginning and the end,
But I do not talk of the beginning or the end.

There was never any more inception than there is now,
Nor any more youth or age than there is now,
And will never be any more perfection than there is now,
Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now.

Men are admitted into Heaven not because they have curbed & govern'd their Passions,
or have no Passions, but because they have cultivated their Understandings
— William Blake

Timelessness is impossible if you remain a thinking functioning person either in body or pure spirit.Time has to exist in order to progress from one thought to another.If you are timeless its impossible to formulate a thought because this very act requires time.Even God has to exist in time in order to exist in reality and not in some mythical fantasy world.

Invitation to ALL!

New blog tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism…

http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

Very useful insights, but miss one key point: we are "timeless," not "eternal." When discussing heaven, this is very important. Even metaphors like "the Way" suggest a narrative and progression and change and overlook the view that we are always in a timeless (and unchanging spiritual state - if something changes, it is not spiritual) state and a heaven in that context is far more wonderful than one of "learning" or "changing."

As an atheist, I am often told by god-believers that their particular view of their particular religion is the only path to Heaven.

Modern mainstream Judeo-Christian culture tells us that Heaven is an eternal paradise. This is opposed to “the other place” which is described as a place of eternal torture. But aren’t both places really eternal torture when you think about it.

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m3d23-On-Faith-What-is-heaven-like

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.

Some observations:

Heaven(if it exists) is a Spirit State as per Aquinas and JPII i.e. no bodies to include glorified bodies allowed. That sure puts the kibosh on Easter!!

The simple preacher man's spirit/soul resides in Heaven (if it exists) with all the souls of deceased good people of any religion or of no religion therefore there will be no second coming.

As per Somerville, “Religion is our vehicle for the journey. Once arrived, it will be left at the door” i.e. there is no religion in Heaven (if it exists).

The Holy Roman "Empirers"/Popes/Kings/Queens et al continued the money grab selling access to JC and heaven resulting in some of today's
richest organizations on the globe i.e. the Christian churches and related aristocracies
.
From Professor JD Crossan:

"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

Islam's reliance on heavenly angels and "demons of the demented" for authenication is coming to a fast close. As it does, Mecca will no longer be a shrine to these fictional characters and will simply become a historical tourist attraction. Maybe Disney will construct another Disney World there featuring roller coaster-chariot rides to the fictional heavens, a water park at the Grand Mosque along with a Hall of Religious Embellished Characters featuring talking figures of Abraham, Jesus and Mohammed and his eleven wives.

Religion is not about losing the ego. That obstreperous entity, the ringmaster of life's circus if we allow it, is necessary to manage this life. What religion can do is help to surmount it, put it in its proper place so that power does not consume our lives and we can be available to make the connections that enable our lives.