God's Non-Violent Revolutionary

Each day becomes Palm Sunday*

1
Each day becomes Palm Sunday
as two processions form
receiving recognition,
portending gath’ring storm.
As Rome parades its power,
the zealots hone their swords.
While these contend for empire,
one comes with wisdom’s words.

2
Each day becomes Palm Sunday
as we find need to choose
between those who seek power
and those with naught to lose.
Each path employs its measure
for how to weigh each day:
as time to horde and harbor
or time to give away.

3
Each day becomes Palm Sunday
when we have yet to see
the hours and days before us:
what life to come will be.
Will we don empire’s trappings,
claim Caesar as our god
or join with those who struggle
to eke their lives from sod?

4
Each day becomes Palm Sunday,
when we must cast our lot
to live for greater justice
in knowledge earth cannot
yield up her finite treasures
to endless plundering
lest all life face the judgment
for empire’s blundering.
5
Each day becomes Palm Sunday
when hearts must make the choice
to trade control for justice,
to heed earth’s weakest voice.
When these two forces gather,
with which will we abide:
as those who come on horseback
or walk by donkey’s side?

© Densley Harley Palmer, 2007

Suggested tune
LANCASHIRE 7.6.7.6.D.
Lead on eternal sovereign

*Acknowledgement: The image of opposing processions on “Palm Sunday” comes from The last week: what the gospels really teach about Jesus’s final days in Jerusalem by Marcus J. Borg and John Dominic Crossan, Harper Collins 2006.

Dear Beloved Marcus Borg,
Greetings to you in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are praying for you and your family and for your ministries.

In the month of April we are going to arrange the seminar with 300 pastors and a huge public meeting so by this time few are welcoming you and your wife and family to preach and teach the Gods word in the midst of the Indian people. We want to work with you and have touch with you to extend the coming kingdom of God. We are working mostly in the Hindu areas many people are coming to know He is the only one God who can save from sin and give eternal life.

So Dear Friend, as we are working please help us and guide us to go through the village by village to bring the perishing souls un to Christ. Strengthen us pray for us stretch your hands for the Glory of God. I and my team willing to work with you and your ministries in the days to come.

Please remember us in your committee meeting as you are gathering. If are willing to come to India go by this direction. Fly to directly Hyderabad Andhra Pradesh head quarters from there you fly to vishakapatnam airport from there we will be with you to receive and visit my ministry.

We want to pray for you and your ministry and family that God may bless you abundantly as light of the world. In same way please pray for us and for our families and ministries in India Andhrapredesh. We want to hear from you soon amen,

Yours faithfully,
In His service,
Pastor. JOHN PRADESH.
Pastor. RAJU K.SPERGEOUN.
AIDS GLOBLE CHILDERN MINISTRY.
INDIA.
John_prasad63@yahoo.com

Dear Beloved Marcus Borg,
Greetings to you in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are praying for you and your family and for your ministries.

In the month of April we are going to arrange the seminar with 300 pastors and a huge public meeting so by this time few are welcoming you and your wife and family to preach and teach the Gods word in the midst of the Indian people. We want to work with you and have touch with you to extend the coming kingdom of God. We are working mostly in the Hindu areas many people are coming to know He is the only one God who can save from sin and give eternal life.

So Dear Friend, as we are working please help us and guide us to go through the village by village to bring the perishing souls un to Christ. Strengthen us pray for us stretch your hands for the Glory of God. I and my team willing to work with you and your ministries in the days to come.

Please remember us in your committee meeting as you are gathering. If are willing to come to India go by this direction. Fly to directly Hyderabad Andhra Pradesh head quarters from there you fly to vishakapatnam airport from there we will be with you to receive and visit my ministry.

We want to pray for you and your ministry and family that God may bless you abundantly as light of the world. In same way please pray for us and for our families and ministries in India Andhrapredesh. We want to hear from you soon amen,

Yours faithfully,
In His service,
Pastor. JOHN PRADESH.
Pastor. RAJU K.SPERGEOUN.
AIDS GLOBLE CHILDERN MINISTRY.
INDIA.
John_prasad63@yahoo.com

Dear Beloved Marcus Borg,
Greetings to you in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are praying for you and your family and for your ministries.

In the month of April we are going to arrange the seminar with 300 pastors and a huge public meeting so by this time few are welcoming you and your wife and family to preach and teach the Gods word in the midst of the Indian people. We want to work with you and have touch with you to extend the coming kingdom of God. We are working mostly in the Hindu areas many people are coming to know He is the only one God who can save from sin and give eternal life.

So Dear Friend, as we are working please help us and guide us to go through the village by village to bring the perishing souls un to Christ. Strengthen us pray for us stretch your hands for the Glory of God. I and my team willing to work with you and your ministries in the days to come.

Please remember us in your committee meeting as you are gathering. If are willing to come to India go by this direction. Fly to directly Hyderabad Andhra Pradesh head quarters from there you fly to vishakapatnam airport from there we will be with you to receive and visit my ministry.

We want to pray for you and your ministry and family that God may bless you abundantly as light of the world. In same way please pray for us and for our families and ministries in India Andhrapredesh. We want to hear from you soon amen,

Yours faithfully,
In His service,
Pastor. JOHN PRADESH.
Pastor. RAJU K.SPERGEOUN.
AIDS GLOBLE CHILDERN MINISTRY.
INDIA.
John_prasad63@yahoo.com

Peace Protester:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/03/27/18384163.php

You have beautiful eyes, Mr. Borg. Very kind. In His image, indeed. We do not need to know all the answers here. Only faith that we are all part of the great eternal plan of life.

Christ wasn't a revolutionary. Revolutionarys seek change often just for its own sake. In fact he taught against revolting against a the established government however ile it might be. Christ came as a reactionary seeking restoration of the previously existing relationship between God and his Children

Don't be "assimilated" into believing this junk theologian's watered down non gospel. It is larger and more significant than he would have you believe. What doth it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?
Kermit the Borg can't see past gaining the world (although he very generously wants everyone to share it).

Greetings,
My name is Jon Vermilion and I have a a crazy man who writes nasty blogs and signs my name to them. If anything else is written that is off color just delete it.
Thanks,
Rev. Dr. Jon Vermilion

I Thank God That I'm Save, Santify And Filled With The Holy Spirit! Glory to God! Glory To God! Your Holy Name Be Praised Day And Night!

Frank,

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus for an analysis of Jesus' life to include his illiteracy.

Also, there is only one place in the NT that suggests Jesus could read i.e. Luke 4:16. This passage is not attested to in any other NT passage or in any other related document making it a later addition or poor translation as per most NT scholars' analyses.

See also Professor Crossan and Professor Reed's book, Excavating Jesus, p. 30.

See also Professor Bruce Chilton's commentary in his book, Rabbi Jesus, An Intimate Biography, pp 99-101- An excerpt:

"What Luke misses is that Jesus stood in the synagogue as an illiterate mamzer in his claim to be the Lord's anointed".

It is very unfortunate that Jesus was illiterate for it resulted in many gospels and epistles being written years after his death by non-witnesses. This resulted in significant differences in said gospels and epistles and with many embellishments to raise Jesus to the level of a deity to compete with the Roman gods and emperors. See Raymond Brown's 878 page book, An Introduction to the New Testament, (Luke 4:16 note on p. 237) for an exhaustive review of the true writers of the gospels and epistles.

hey freethinker:
you wrote: "He was apparently illiterate."
actually he was able to read and write as the bible indicates when jesus went into the synagogue and read from the torah. so he was not illiterate.
but i do agree that the author of this article is a fool.
if jesus was a revolutionary he would not have said "my knigdom is not of this world".
jesus did what he did and said what he said and we dont have to pretend he did or said anything else.

Why does it appear that all the speakers are of Ashkenazi Jewish descent who write the articles for this web site?

What a joke.

A bunch of crypto Pharisee's telling goi about god.

Anyone who falls for this load of dung is an idiot.

Dr. Vermilion,

I, for one, am greatly relieved that God, not you, will decide which faiths are "heretical." You seem to think that only you and like-minded followers will receive God's blessing. Well I suppose that you would consider me heretical as well. Frankly, I suspect that you are using faith to justify your hatred and bigotry. Really now, who is "filthy"?

Yes, make love not war. JC encouraged his Posse to eat with the tax collectors, those who were considered a burden to the little guy.

He did profess to obey man too, like pay your taxes, give to Ceasar what is his. He certainly did not cause a tax revolt against the Emporer.

Interesting to note Hippy movement resulted in direct opposition to the oppression of the Draft in the 1960s. I would suggest that body art is a counter to oppression in modern society.

I think we still have a choice to procreate in the United States, why not so make love not war. Think Russian women stopped a war one time by taking all of the soldiers to bed a night before a battle ?

Of course procreation would be a personal choice exercising free will. It is a natural thing. Am glad some churches support science. Galelio learned some of the rules or laws that govern the Universe under the Creator's guidence. Properties of Gravity exemplify perfect designs of the Creater,imho.

AND JESUS SAID....

In reality, you have absolutely no idea what Jesus said. He never wrote anything down. He was apparently illiterate. All writings about him were SECOND HAND at best. And this fact is accepted by nearly all Biblical scholars.

All you have are stories passed down for decades through uncountable numbers of people, including the gospel accounts. That we know for sure. NOT ONE SINGLE FIRST HAND ACCOUNT EXISTS. This is a fact.

How do you know what Jesus "said"? No one does. No one know if he said anything, in fact.

Strange.

Satan- definition, the mythical and ugly "wingie thingie", called the demon of the demented in contemporary language.

But with regards for atonement theology:

As per Professor Crossan in his book, Who is Jesus?

"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

"Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."

"In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."

Rev.

"In the process they are driving people to unbelief, to heretical "Christian" religions (Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, most of the"mainline" denominations) and to false satanic religions like Islam, Buddism, Krishna, etc".

Only satan can succeed in making a man born of a woman two thousand years ago equal to God sound like a resonable belief system. Only stan can succeed in fooling people in believing the death of Jesus some atone for past, present and future sins of men. What a stupid idea... Jesus never claimed equality to God and never preached the depravity of men. It sounds like you are following the teachibng of satan himself. If any religion is satanic it is definitely Christianity.

These "Biblical Scholars" are nothing but warmed over heretics. Their complex sounding theories about the Bible are just a satanic attempt to blind the world. These people are trying to make the black and white teachings of Scripture appear to be muddied and the inventions of men. In the process they are driving people to unbelief, to heretical "Christian" religions (Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, most of the"mainline" denominations) and to false satanic religions like Islam, Buddism, Krishna, etc".

I have studied the modern postmodern push to make these filthy religions acceptable. Christians can see through these people.

Dan,

You are sparring with the contemporary NT exegetes who have reviewed scripture from top to bottom and found it wanting. You can spar with them on their web pages if you want.

"Concerned" -

Presuming (wrongly) that canonicity was established solely by those evil white European males, that's "No longer acceptable" to whom? Again, authority please? And interesting, I didn't realize that only PhD's were qualified to spar in the theological ring with you (or "us", whoever "we" are).
There's much that could be said in reply, as I briefly perused some links and found their "scholarship" arbitrary at best, outright falsehood at worst... ("gap of about 175 years separates Jesus from the earliest surviving copies of the gospels" is laughably wrong) but rather than continue monopolizing the conversation, I'll let others join in now.

But in parting, please think, who is "passing judgment" on whom? It seems what you might be primarily "Concerned" with is bolstering your own sense of academic and philosophical superiority through ad hominem attacks supplemented with copied/pasted web links conveniently validating your own beliefs (I could clutter this site with likewise but will refrain), at the expense of civil discourse with us "laypeople".

"Why do you point the speck of dust in another's eye, while you have a plank in your own?"
-One far wiser than either of us - oh, but He was a "mere carpenter" who didn't have a PhD.

Peace and Blessings,
Dan

7. Writing the New Testament- http://www.mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html

Note: the references cited are typical required readings for any PhD Theology or Religious History Program.

Many of the references reviewed by Professor Crossan can be found at:

http://www.faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan1.rtf

When you finishing your review and passing your PhD exams, get back to us.

An excerpt:

A. CHRONOLGICAL STRATIFICATION

FIRST STRATUM [30-60 CE]

1. First Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians [I Thess]. Written from Corinth in late 50 CE (Koester, 1982:2.112).
2. Letter of Paul to the Galatians [Gal]. Written from Ephesus possibly in the winter of 52-53 CE (Koester, 1982:2.116).
3. First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians [1 Cor]. Written from Ephesus in the winter of 53-54 CE (Koester, 1982:2.121).
4. Letter of Paul to the Romans [Rom]. Written from Corinth in the winter of 55-56 CE (Koester, 1982:2.138).
5. Gospel of Thomas I [Gos. Thom. I]. A serial collection of Jesus' sayings with limited individual linkage by means of theme, word, or expression.
6. Egerton Gospel [Eger. Gos.]. The Egerton Gospel is known from a single codex now separated over two locations: (a) Papyrus Egerton 2 (P. Lond. Christ 1; van Haelst #586) contains 87 damaged lines on two large fragments, one much smaller one, and a scrap; (b) Papyrus Köln 255 (Inv. 608) adds 12 lines of completion or addition to the bottom of fragment
7. Papyrus Vindobonensis Greek 2325 [P. Vienna G. 2325]. A tiny 7-line text from a 3rd century papyrus (scroll?) gospels, a fact more evident in the Greek original than in English translations (Hennecke-Schneemelcher-Wilson: 1.115-116; James: 25)
8. Papyrus Oxyrhynchus 1224 [P. Oxy. 1224]. Two fragments from a Greek papyrus book of the early fourth or maybe even the late third century were discovered by B. P. Grenfell and A. S. Hunt in 1903-4 and published by them in 1914.
9. Gospel of the Hebrews [Gos. Heb]. There are no extant fragments, it is known only from seven patristic citations, and is independent of the intracanonical gospels (Koester, 1982:2.223-224). Composed by the 50s CE, in Egypt, it depicted the preexistence, advent, sayings, and resurrectional appearance of Jesus as the incarnation of divine Wisdom.
10. Sayings Gospel Q now imbedded within the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. A serial collection of Jesus' sayings but with more compositional organization than the Gospel of Thomas. Composed by the 50s, and possibly at Tiberias in Galilee, it contains no passion or resurrection account but presumes the same myth of divine Wisdom as do the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of the Hebrews. There may be three successive layers in its development: a sapiential layer (1Q), an apocalyptic layer (2Q), and an introductory layer (3Q) and it is inventoried within those three rubrics (Kloppenborg, 1987, 1988).

5. Josephus on Jesus http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm

6. The Jesus Seminar, http://www.mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria

3. Historical Jesus Studies, http://www.faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
-- "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"

4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html--"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."

Dan,

Blind faith based on the musings of a few elderly gentlemen of the first and second century CE, and promulgated by a few "elite", white male Europeans is no longer acceptable. Please review the following before making any more judgments.

1. Historical Jesus Theories, http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm -- the names of most of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the titles of their over 100 books on the subject.

2. Early Christian Writings, http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
-- a list of early Christian documents to include the year of publication

See the following continuations since the blog owners do not permit more than two net references per comment:

Lol, Concerned, now who's using circular logic?

"I believe in x because x says so."
x= Father Edward Schillebeeckx
x= Professor Crossan
x= Concerned
etc.

God "doesn't know the future" and prophecy is "fortune telling" because they/you say so? And on what authority?

If a "fortune teller" told me that an earthquake of magnitude 8.3 was going to happen in a specific city at 5:03 PM in 4 days, and it happened, I might actually think there's some power behind it (for good or ill). Regardless of Crossan et al's skepticism.

Others note: "prophecy ignored and denied in light of history, rather than both history and prophecy acknowledged".

Peace,
Dan

Dan,

Father Edward Schillebeeckx addresses the issue of "prophets and prophecies" in his commentary about God not knowing the future therefore it follows that no humans knew or will know the future. Those humans that did/do so are what we now call "fortune tellers".

From his book, Church: The Human Story of God,
Church: The Human Story of God,
Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

"Christians (et al) must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history."

"Nothing is determined in advance: in
nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human activity there is possibility of free choices. Therefore the historical future is not known even to God, otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

Bottom line: One of God's greatest gifts to us is that of the Future.

With respect to the NT fullfilling the "fortune telling" of the OT, Professor Crossan notes:

"prophecy turned into history rather than history remembered" .

Hi Concerned,

It seems you choose to change the subject rather than address it directly, but just a quick response to one of the several problematic comments in your post:

Most Christians don't follow the circular (lack of) logic you claim, i.e. "I believe the Bible is inspired merely 'because it says so'". That's a strawman.
Rather, we believe that God put His supernatural "fingerprint" uniquely on the Bible by having numerous prophecies interspersed throughout the Old Testament, to be fulfilled either later in the OT period or finally in the NT period - and many specifically fulfilled in the person of Christ.
One of many compelling examples: prophetic Psalm 22:16 "They have pierced my hands and feet" - written several hundred years before crucifixion was even invented.
Many responses have been written regarding alleged differences/"failed prophecies" in the NT, so seeker/skeptics are not without recourse in their search for answers to common doubts raised about Biblical veracity. "Seek and you shall find..." :)

Peace,
Dan

Dan,

So who verifies the NT? Considering the differences and "absences" in/of important events, the lack of attestations and translation/editing/stratum problems in the Four Gospels and Paul's epistles to include the major error in his imminent second coming "prophecy", official scripture was not inspired by God.

So we have the NT verifying itself!!!!

Logic to ponder:

“I believe the Bible is inspired.” “Why?” “Because it says so.” Would
anyone let that logic pass if it came from the followers of any other book
or person? “I believe x is inspired because x says so.” Fill in the blanks:
x=Pat Robertson
x=the ayatolloah Sistani
x=David Koresh
x=the Koran”
x=Dan

By the way, Titus' epistle was not written by Paul.

Concerned:
"John 3:11-21 fails historic attestation and stratum testing so be very cautious using it to prove the necessity of being born again and also the divinity of Jesus."

So many other historically and archeologically attested scriptures exist pointing to the necessity of being born again and Jesus' divinity (e.g. 2Cor 5:17, Titus 2:13) that time and space here hardly allows proper exposition... but one should be "very cautious" using alleged uncertainty about John 3:11-21 in suggesting that these principles don't "appear in any associated scriptures".

Amused:
"How much sillier can this get ?"

Not much sillier than you just put it... :) How silly is it to conceive of the possibility that a transcendent God both created man in His own spiritual image (with will, volition, emotion, moral aptitude etc), and "described" and "objectified" Himself just enough so that we could commune and connect with Him on the level He created us to?
If we are personal and describable, to paint God as necessarily impersonal and indescribable from man's perspective is really to elevate man and denigrate God. If we understand "personhood" to be an attribute of higher forms of life, then God would be infinitely more personal than persons.

To say that Jews do not/did not believe in the soul really does not take into account the variety of Jewish belief both today and throughout Jewish history. One can only make such a statement if one takes into account only part of the evidence--that being what the person considers definitional for authentic Judaism.

John 3:11-21 fails historic attestation and stratum testing so be very cautious using it to prove the necessity of being born again and also the divinity of Jesus.

http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/350_Jesus_to_Nicodemus

This passage only appears once on the Four Gospels and does not appear in any associated scriptures.

Non-violent people are not hailed by crowds with the cry "Save us (Hosannah) Son of David. This event meant that Jesus was proclaimed a king by the Jerusalem crowd and thereby he was guilty of lese-majeste vs. Caesar. Christians wrote the Gospels to gain favor with Rome by denying the obvious. Jesus was a rebel. The sign on the Cross, jesus of nazareth king of the jews, meant just that.

Anon says "According to Jesus what God is passionate about ......."

God.... love, passion, just, angry etc. etc.

All these seem to be pretty mundane human emotions to me.

Somewhere in this universe, I bet there is sentient life which is atleast as evolved as us, but have emotions that are different from ours and cannot be captured by our psyche. And I bet their God will have all those emotions....

How pathetic for a God, to be describable and objectifiable.

How much sillier can this get ?

The word "soul" originated in ancient Egypt. It's a clay tablet on which the sins of the "reborn" dead were recorded. Sins were determined by a lie detector test.

Sinners were fed to a monster they called EATER. Over time that lie changed just like the lies of all religions change today. In the beginning, being eaten by Eater took the person completely out of existence. Later they said that people were immortal and could not be taken out of existence.

Hell was invented to prevent sinners from getting into the next life. Necessity is the mother of invention and has been for a long time.

Jews had no souls and were cast into the original hell, the abyss without being judged. That was true for all non Egyptians and not just Jews. So Jew souls being better than Gentile souls is a laugher for neither have souls. There are no survivors of the kingdom of God, ancient Egypt.

The ancient Egyptian religion is the foundation of the three great faiths. All three have warped and perverted it, bent it to fit their founders and operators desires. http://www.hoax-buster.org has the real version of the ancient Egyptian religion. Once understood the three great faiths become very humorous and especially statements like Jew souls and Gentile souls.

According to Jesus what God is passionate about is that a person be born again and that a way be provided for the salvation of mankind: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Your statements above are about finite earthly things that yes God cares about but the things of this earth are not God's ultimate passion. To word it like you have is to trivialize the real purpose of Christ's life and sacrifice. Christ was not crucified so we could beat our swords into plow shears (although that is a side goal and a good one). The passion is the resurrection of the first born to provide the path for the rest of us to be reconciled to God. All else is good but just not the real passion.

??????????????

In the book "Orot," Orot Yisrael chapter 5, article 10 (page 156), Rabbi Kook wrote: "The difference between the Jewish soul, in all its independence, inner desires, longings, character and standing, and the soul of all the Gentiles, on all of their levels, is greater and deeper than the difference between the soul of a man and the soul of an animal, for the difference in the latter case is one of quantity, while the difference in the first case is one of essential quality."
— Rabbi Bar-Chayim, quoting Rabbi Kook (15) (emphasis in original)

???????????

Hebry, the Southern Baptists are catching up fast. When America is finally recognized to be a Christian Nation who will take the helm? Not the pope for sure. How about America's pastor? He seems to be the "king George" crowner.

Jesus was Anti-Establishment

and that makes the Catholic Church nervous

since they are the MOST established Church on the planet,
with the most highly developed authority structures
on which the power of the leaders depends

and which therefore can be most powerfully abused.

Everyone with an IQ above 10 is "passionate about economic justice and peace." That makes Jesus just one of the gang. Even Hitler was for economic justice and peace.

When Adolph comes again on a cloud accompanied by the heavenly host to rule the earth forever and ever economic justice and peace will finally prevail.

Jesus and Hitler have one thing in common. Both were sent by God to rule the world. They also seem to be on the same page in the book of economic justice and peace for Jews. Jesus was in favor of letting Jews convert so they're not exactly alike.

One man's economic justice and peace is another man's free ride to the gas chamber. In the immortal words of Daffy Duck, "it had to be either me or him and it couldn't possibly be me. I can't stand pain."

Concerned, I would be careful about reducing these guys definition/description of Jesus to a three or four-word phrase. Its kind of like calling mount Everest a big rock. Plus many of these folks have suprisingly similar outlooks when they are not arguing about details. For examle, LT Johnson, who has been highly critical of Borg, Crossan and the Jesus Seminar actually has strikingly similar views on Jesus once you get past his rhetoric (e.g. pre- vs post-easter or historical vs 'real').

I do find it fascinating that the Catholic church has such an apparent aversion to this social revolutionary theology. Does anyone know if Ratzinger/the Pope has ever made any statements about Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was also a strong proponent of social justice?

I found this very interesting, so I thought I would share this. Just imagine how many so called Christians watch this guy on TV not knowing what he thinks of them! How hillarious!!!

In Judaism for Everyone, Rabbi Boteach says that Judaism views Christianity as the "Ultimate Heresy" and says he finds tolerance "repugnant."

http://www.come-and-hear.com/editor/america_1.html

Concerned:

Your re-run is getting old.

NT scholars "take" on the historical Jesus from http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

(note that four of these NT exegetes are members of the On Faith panel)

-Jesus the Myth: Heavenly Christ
Earl Doherty
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

-Jesus the Myth: Man of the Indefinite Past
Alvar Ellegård
G. A. Wells

-Jesus the Hellenistic Hero
Gregory Riley

-Jesus the Revolutionary
Robert Eisenman

-Jesus the Wisdom Sage
John Dominic Crossan
Robert Funk
Burton Mack
Stephen J. Patterson

-Jesus the Man of the Spirit
Marcus Borg
Stevan Davies
Geza Vermes

-Jesus the Prophet of Social Change
Richard Horsley
Hyam Maccoby
Gerd Theissen

-Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet
Bart Ehrman
Paula Fredriksen
Gerd Lüdemann
John P. Meier
E. P. Sanders

-Jesus the Savior
Luke Timothy Johnson
Robert H. Stein
N. T. Wright