What we tell our kids about Santa

Santa: The concept of Santa is a rehersal or practice for theism. Much more appealing to children than God, Santa-belief teaches them they are being constantly watched, that they will be rewarded or punished by the watcher, that impossible things can REALLY happen, that there are invisible agents ever present, that you will be rewarded for believing this. The best thing about Santa is that by age 8 they have figured out that their parents have lied to them, fooled them, tricked them, played a game on them, conned them. It is the parents that need to be forgiven! My christmas wish is that more adults will have the "8 year old" experience and realize that God belief is just as unnecessary and false - even though it may also be rewarding.

When a classmate told me in third grade that Santa Claus wasn't "real," I was surprised. Not so much surprised that Santa wasn't "real," but that a fellow child would enjoy shattering an enjoyable, mysterious experience I'd had in pondering and anticipating something benevolent, fun, and magical. Why must we be so confounded literal about everything? Speak in terms of lying vs. telling the truth, when it comes to such things as Santa Claus? Is it really damaging our children to share our imaginations with them, and witness how their beliefs and understandings evolve as they mature? Give the kids some credit! Guide them; give them an opportunity to explore, imagine, and decide for themselves.

While this might seem like a trivial issue for non-Christians, it is becoming a serious concern in my house: in a world obsessed with present getting, how do you keep Christ first this time of year?

We've been doing some of the same things as this family, without stating outright that Santa is not real -- we are letting her work out the contradictions and tensions in her own mind. Of course explaining children boiled alive and fathers selling off their daughters gets a little tricky . . .

As an aside, I love the comments at the NYTimes because they are so well monitored, while the Washington Post comments are so filled with bile that it is discouraging to read. I don't push my belief on other people, nor do I mock others for their beliefs. Yet so many people feel free to mock my beliefs, that I sometimes wonder if atheists feel as though rudeness is right. It seems to me like the atheists on this site have more faith than I do, since at least I question mine.

Thank you for explaining how you 'redeem' Santa.

Your explanation is uncannily similar to how I explain Jesus to children. Yes, I say, there was a Jesus who lived long ago in ancient Palestine. But after he died people told many stories about him, so that in addition to the 'actual story' of Jesus a lot of other stories have been added (e.g. stories about Jesus doing miraculous things, stories that he didn't really die, and stories that he was God incarnate!).

I explain to children that the Jesus who actually lived was different from the stories told about him. Not only that, as I explain, Jesus himself was the first 'story-teller' about Jesus. For Jesus probably claimed that he was a divine intermediary called 'The Son of Man', and claimed that he had a special role in bringing about the end times, and even (incorrectly) claimed that these end times were coming very soon! He did and said many good things, but also many things that weren't so good and should not be followed by children or even adults.

By explaining that these are all just stories, I hope to redeem Jesus for children.

Merry Christmas!

If this was true, wouldn't this be a great Story?

Posted by: pkferguson
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There are some elements to the story of the guy you mention that I find much too disturbing to believe in or to encourage a child to believe in.

A creator who puts the one thing that can destroy the people he created, and whom he supposedly loves, right smack in the middle of their living room. When I have things I don't want people to touch, I put them out of their reach, I don't make a centerpiece out of them.

Punishing people who haven't even been born yet for the sins of their ancestors.

A deity who impregnates a young girl without her having any say-so in the matter.

A deity who creates an individual for the sole purpose o having him tortured to death for sins committed by others, some of whom haven't even been born yet.

If this was true, wouldn't this be a great Story?

No. Even if it was true, it would still be a mean and vengeful story.

True love in unconditional. Anything less is pure extortion and is not a great story at all unless you like the Sopranos.

To LEPIDOPTERYX

RE: "Personally, I would rather have my child believe in an avuncular figure who lives in a remote spot on earth, with fey helpers making toys for children, to be delivered in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, whose only purpose is to make people happy, than in a guy who was tortured to death as a sacrifice to expiate the sins of people who hadn't even been born yet, and who would sentence those who didn't worship him to eternal torture after they died."

I agree with you! The first option is way better than the second, but I think a third is even better ...the Story of One who created beings and wanted the best for them, but gave them the choice to listen to His direction on Life, and even when they chose not to listen and life started spiraling out of control (as when one decides the laws of gravity do not apply and they fall on their face) He repeatedly extended His hand into that broken spiraling-out-of-control life (while still allowing them to choose), eventually even entering into that spiraling-out-of-control life with those beings to show them that the best way to true Life is to give to others no matter what it cost you (even if it means giving your own Life). This One then says "trust my way to Life (as I shared with you from the very beginning) and you can have it!! However, He still allows for choice, and for those that over and over again say that they do not want anything to do with Him, He will eventually (even though He knows that it is not what's best for them, but simply because they have desired it so strongly) give them their hearts desire... eternity without Him. While He will not actively be torturing them, they will discover that Life absolutely without Him (something we get close to here at times, but never fully experience) is no Life at all and is ultimately torture... the truth He has been trying to share with them all along simply because He loves them.

If this was true, wouldn't this be a great Story?

"Since we also teach our children that Jesus is a real person who did perform real miracles, our fear is that if we teach them fanciful, make-believe stories as truth, it could erode confidence in our truthfulness where it really matters"

If you had any concept of irony you would be able to read that sentence and realize that there's likely a whole lot of erosion going on in your household...

I have ALWAYS loved Christmas, both Nativity and Santa pageantry.

I am convinced that blockage of childrens' beliefs in the magic of Santa is tantamount to never reading fairy tales and myths to them. It's Cruel Deprivation.

And. . . when they inevitably learn (usually from playmates) about "Santa", they should be told that the SPIRIT of Santa Claus is REAL!
Indeed, as real as the "Spirit" of The Nativity.

lepidopteryx,
"avuncular"... nice...

we definitely told our daughter about santa. we went the extra mile of putting out then partially emptying a cookie/carrot plate for santa and the reindeer. i suppose her gradually coming to grips w/the the "no santa" paradigm shift is potential practice for the "no god" realization.

My parent's never told me that Santa was real, and they never told me that Keynesian Economics would work. I'm real glad that my parents valued truth enough to not teach me myths.

Personally, I would rather have my child believe in an avuncular figure who lives in a remote spot on earth, with fey helpers making toys for children, to be delivered in a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, whose only purpose is to make people happy, than in a guy who was tortured to death as a sacrifice to expiate the sins of people who hadn't even been born yet, and who would sentence those who didn't worship him to eternal torture after they died.

Thank you Mark for this article. I have been strugling with what to tell my three old nephew. I don't like that so much focus is on santa and not the birth of Jesus. I also don't like the idea of lying to him. I remember how stupid I felt when I learned that santa was not real. I thought my parents had tricked me and I never trusted them like I did before.
For those of you who are bashing Mark for this article have you heard? This is America and if you don't like someone's opinion you don't have to read it. There are tons of other newspaper articles you can read and enjoy those instead of seeking out ones you don't enjoy and bashing them. Sounds like a waste of your time.

Santa, Jesus and the easter bunny: the mythical holy trinity.

Posted by: BringYourOwnBags "For those that find the birth of Christ meaningless and thus Christmas only a materialist holiday, then maybe they should find out when St. Nicholas was born and have a day called "Santa Day"."
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Why do you assume that those of us who don't believe in jesus see christmass as only materialistic and meaningless? The other holidays the were on or right around Dec 25 -Solstice, Staurnalia, natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun" basicly celebrating the days getting longer), Yule (from the germanic tribes) all of which involved gifts, family and merriment have great meaning. All of these have been celebrated for hundreds if not thousands of years before christianity ever existed.

Just because you can only find one meaning to a certain day does NOT mean its meaningless to any who doesn't share your religious view.

We already lie to our children about Jesus being part savior part superman, so why not lie to them about Santa? Next it'll be the Tooth Fairy who has an interesting life and should be acknowledged. How about Batman?

mrcloc,

"Why survive?"

Probably because it is hard-wired in our DNA.

"Why make the world a better place to live?"

Probably because it hard-wired in our DNA.

"Why want anything?"

Probably because it hard-wired in our DNA.

"In the end we all die."

Yes, we do.

"In the end the earth will be consumed by the sun and all trace of humanity will vanish."

Probably.

"Life doesn't make sense in the perspective of the physical universe,..."

It doesn't?

Why not?

"...and all things must have a beginning,..."

Probably.

"...thus the universe must have began."

Again, probably.

"What was there before that?"

Something else, perhaps?

"So, to the atheists posting, if there is no God, then why live?"

For the same reason to live even though there are no unicorns.

"Or why try to prove it?"

Why, indeed.

"There's no point, so don't post here when this article is not relevant to you,..."

Are you the moderator of this blog?

"...but to those who do know God."

Do you know "god"?

How's he doing?

"There are other forums for that."

There are other forums for what?

"Perhaps you're surviving or living because something intrinsic to you says that there is something greater than you that caused you to have life?"

Perhaps, perhaps not.

"Maybe you're trying to justify all the things you do which are morally wrong?"

What is morally wrong?

@lightsaber42
Oops, I think I must have been thinking that he wrote around the year 100, rather than 100 years after Christ's death. So that is a valid point. But I still beg to differ about your conclusions. If the Bible were so important to an omnipotent God, why would we half half hearted, non-witness accounts that differ in key passages and contain complete fabrications (like the Massacre of the Innocents or the Christmas star)? Why not the original words of Jesus? And frankly, I really don't understand how you can give a God free pass on demanding human blood sacrifice. Why not worship the Aztec Gods then? They only differ in asking for one each day, but the principal is still there, and it is immoral and repugnant.

@mrcloc
There isn't any purpose in life, anymore than there is purpose in a mountain. You find the meaning and enjoyment that you want, and there is much to enjoy in life, a lot of beauty to be seen, friends to make, etc, etc. I think its much easier on my mind than trying to figure out why a just God would craft a world with such horrors in it and then not explain why they were necessary (instead of making a world that was better), or give any good proof of his existence. Especially when you have to imagine that there is no good reason for you to worship your one religion vs all the others.

Say, Joe Allen Booty, wasn't jesus a jew, didn't he consider himself to be jewish?

How horrible for you. You're worshiping a jew.

Santa Claus is Jesus for children.

joe_allen_doty,

"As I posted before, I NEVER KNEW MARK DRISCOLL EVEN EXISTED UNTIL I SAW HIS NAME HERE ON THE WASHINGTON POST WEBSITE."

Would it surprise you to learn that there are billions of people who exist, even though you have not seen their names, and probably will never see their names?

Do you believe that people do not exist until you are aware of them?

I am NOT anti-Semitic! I have Jewish blood in my veins. To be anti-Semitic, one would have to be anti-Jesus, too.

I believe in Jesus and I only self-identify by the name Jesus' followers used for themselves in the 1st Century AD which is "Believer."

Hi. Just something about humans... Why survive? Why make the world a better place to live? Why want anything? In the end we all die. In the end the earth will be consumed by the sun and all trace of humanity will vanish. Life doesn't make sense in the perspective of the physical universe, and all things must have a beginning, thus the universe must have began. What was there before that?

So, to the atheists posting, if there is no God, then why live? Or why try to prove it? There's no point, so don't post here when this article is not relevant to you, but to those who do know God. There are other forums for that. Perhaps you're surviving or living because something intrinsic to you says that there is something greater than you that caused you to have life? Maybe you're trying to justify all the things you do which are morally wrong?

There has never been a living person whose 1st name was Santa and his last name was Claus. The man with the Greek name of Nicolaos wasn't any Santa Claus.

As I posted before, I NEVER KNEW MARK DRISCOLL EVEN EXISTED UNTIL I SAW HIS NAME HERE ON THE WASHINGTON POST WEBSITE.

@Sajanas - You have several facts incorrect, not the least of which is your estimate that Josephus wrote 100 years after the death of Christ. He began writing shortly after the destruction of the temple in 70AD. That is less than 40 years after the death of Christ, well within the lifetimes of eyewitnesses.

Secondly, for the rest of those who want to late-date the gospels, the fact that not one of the New Testament writers describe the destruction of the Temple is ample evidence that their writings were complete before that event. Not only would they surely have included it because of it's importance to them as Jews, but also in that it confirms Jesus' prophecy of that event in detail.

Thirdly, the Bible is not one book. It is 66 books, penned by 40 different writers over the course of 2000 years. It seems that the fact that they bound the books together that bear witness to Jesus works against it in the court of public opinion and historical scholarship. Still, it is a valid witness to the fact that Jesus Christ did live, he did die, and he did claim victory over death by rising from the dead. Impossible? For a God governed by natural laws yes. But if God were governed by the laws of nature as we know them He wouldn't be much of a god.

Fourth, the idea that God would/should conform to our idea of a benevolent God is silliness. People seem to want to judge God's actions and then call Him a "Monster" or "unfair". The truth is, God made a way for us to get to Heaven where no way existed previously. He took our punishment on himself and he conquered it. The cross is truly the point at which perfect justice and perfect grace meet. The sentence was carried out as justice dictates, but God, in perfect grace took that upon himself. That is not the act of a monster. That is why He is worthy of worship.

As for the folks who argue that you can't celebrate Christmas and be a real Christian... the point is to celebrate His birth. I agree that, from the description it is most likely summer or spring and I understand the historical underpinning of Christmas... the same could be said of Easter although Easter is probably a lot closer since we can attach it to the Jewish celebration of Passover. Still, this is a distraction from the point and that is, we celebrate the birth of Christ as God's gift to humanity.

As far as Santa goes... while I figured out he didn't exist, it was still a disappointment. Not a big one, but still a memorable one. I think would have enjoyed Christmas and its presents just fine without Santa, but it is a good teaching moment for skepticism. As far as being afraid that Santa endangers Jesus, I think its important to realize that even if you always speak what you feel is the truth to your kids, they won't always end up having the same opinions as you do, because they will grow and learn on their own, and sometime the things one person feels are Gospel Truth are just fables for another.

I do love how little is taught about the historicity of Jesus in Church. When you look at the actual source material, there are quite a few authors who lived contemporaneously with the traditional Jesus lifespan (though who knows how accurate that is), and he is never mentioned, not by Romans or Jews. Josephus is the first Christian mention of Jesus, who wrote 100 years afterwards, and the parts that mention him have been heavily, heavily tampered with over the years, so a lot of that might refer to another Jesus, or was just inserted entirely. Its something under debate. I don't think its likely that he could be a complete myth, but I can imagine he wasn't a particularly big deal for a long time, and the Churches of Paul, John, and Matthew all had very different ways of looking at Jesus, both from pagan religions and orthodox and radical Judaism. And even if you strip away all the myths and just go with his teachings, how can you tell what is what literally came from his lips, and how much came from Mark, who wrote the primary, earliest gospel that the others used as sources? Perhaps the most important teachings were really from the writer of the Gospel of Mark, and it is him and Paul we should thank for the good things we attribute to Jesus. And the writer of Mark was not an eye witness, he was an educated Greek scholar who lived after the fall of the Temple. Matthew and Luke invented the nativity (two, in fact, which are completely different). You can chase Jesus back a reasonable ways, but don't act like he's represented by a rock hard truth. And it can be hard to stomach that the same divinity that was more than happy to show off all these great superpowers to the masses 2,000 years ago, or even whip them out at parties, would leave only a few heavily biased and edited sources such as the Gospels and Paul's letters as the soul proof of his existence at all. Is a good flaming sword too much to ask?

by the way...for the baby "christian" drivelers who will say we shouldn't judge others, you don't know your bible. we aren't to judge other christians against our selves, but we are to judge those in christian leadership or teaching positions, to see whether they are teaching bible truth or some form of error. if a man who calls himself a pastor is spreading false doctrine,a loving brother will call him on it, and try to show him where he went off course

my comments are on this article about Santa. the whole issue of belief in Jesus is another topic, so all you atheists are on the wrong thread.... in more than one way

pastor mark,
you say that the santa lie is so pervasive in our culture that it is nearly impossible to simply reject it. why so? its not completely impossible, because me and my family completely reject it, as do other fundamental independent baptist christians who care more about honoring Jesus Christ that we care about fitting in with this fallen world system. its not even hard to reject santa, when the scales fall off your eyes and you see the truth. christian miner is right on with what he said about your scribblings being just a little bit of poppy cock that you found in wikopedia. the truth of the santa lie is much deeper and older than the pro-catholic propaganda that you are spreading. Santa is a false christ, a counterfeit, an imposter, and that is the worst thing about what you are promoting. you are telling christians that they should still encourage their children to taken interest and have admiration for satan clause (i meant to spell it that way)satan is the great counterfeiter, imposter, false christ, desiring the worship of the whole world. the catholic church thinks and teaches they can vote to decide if someone is a saint based on good works---that's not in God's bible. pastor mark, i pray you will seek the holy spirit to show you the truth, and be willing to receive it (like the bearean believers). what you are promoting is just a different flavor of the same poison culture kool-aid.

anyone with eyes to see, can see that the "christ mass" is a catholic concoction to merge christianity with pagan winter solstice festival. dec 25 was declared to be the birth date of jesus --declared by a pope julius i in the fourth century. by the way, the catholic councils also declared that their church tradition is equal in authority to God's word and that there is no salvation outside of their church and their "mass" (both of those are lies, so i find the dec 25 declaration to be highly suspect, wouldn't you?)
do some serious biblical research, you will discover that Jesus was born some time in sept. or early october (probably at the time of the feast of tabernacles -He came to tabernacle among us in a body of flesh :) ) historically, the celebration of "christ mass" wasn't even legal in parts of colonial america, because it was recognized as a distinctly catholic holiday. the current christ-mass tradition in america is mostly a product of the past 150 years, spread and strengthened by our media/entertainment. pastor mark, take a long look at matt 15:6

christ-mass (jesus didn't need a sacrafice, he was sinless) He made one sacrifice for sin forever |||("it is finished") catholic church doesn't believe this, that's why they still have weekly and yearly "masses" (which is what you get in any works based false religion. you never can be sure you have done enough, so you have to keep doing more and more good works forever.

true believers, please wake up!
read you bible! learn to think for yourself

I tell the kids that the past just imploded into the future and Santa is a cyberpunk and he's in heaven with grandma and bears. They're playing with dolls and fire engines.

For those that find the birth of Christ meaningless and thus Christmas only a materialist holiday, then maybe they should find out when St. Nicholas was born and have a day called "Santa Day".

Jesus is NOT Santa Claus for adults.

Santa teaches children to be good in order to get gifts at Christmas time. Jesus teaches us that the only way to get our gift is through Him, not through good works. Good works are the FRUIT of our salvation, not the ROOT of it.

Well done, Pastor Mark.

I have attended a Christmas Eve service in which Santa comes in at the end of the Nativity scene after the Wise Men. At first I was taken aback, but the explanation is given that he too comes to worship the Christ child and symbolizes the spirit of giving. Although I am ambivalent, I can acknowledge that it represents a child's reality and tries to put Santa into the context of the Christmas story. I think that people over angst about the "damage" done to children about telling them stories of Santa, the tooth fairy, and the Easter bunny. I seriously doubt that any damage has ever been done by these mistruths and that no good Christian's faith has ever been shaken. True believers don't let something so trivial get in the way of faith.

Contrary to popular belief, real Christians are not panicky or hateful. Yes some cross the line, and many times is done without intending to "sound" hateful. Like any other group we get passionate. See, real Christians don’t really care if you celebrate Santa Claus or not. Pastor Mark was asked to write an opinion, and say what you will, the man does his homework. Just about every single sermon he preaches is presented in the same way (ALL free to download). As usual people agree and some disagree often (me included), and some disagree with disgust (visit his Facebook page and you'll see how we Christians go to battle with each other). But one thing I assure all of you, you can celebrate Santa all you want, or you can "reflect" on Christ' bday for a few days in December, or you can just drown in depression like many do, or you can do absolutely nothing special, or you can get drunk on the 20th and stay drunk until the 2nd of January, or all of the above, or something totally different, real Christians are not judging you because we are NOT to judge those outside the Church. When asked, however, regardless of how loony or weird or strange or diluted, or blind you say we are, regardless of the mocking and looks we get, we will hold firm. Do you really think we like "making" enemies? Some lose all friendships, family, possessions, careers, and, read the paper, in some countries their lives. The Bible says that Christ is foolishness to some and a stumbling block to others. To many, is a great insult, a curse word, and on and on. So, really… we know. We know it doesn't make sense to you. We know many think we are a bunch of whateverfobes, take your pick. As a real Christian, I will tell you that Christ was born of a virgin, He performed many miracles, that He was God incarnate and was murdered because He claimed so. That with His dead he paid the penalty of those who repent and put their trust in Him. That He arose from the dead and He sits at the right Hand of the Father. That He reigns over all, you included, and that one day He will return to judge all, yes, you included. That one day every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess (yes, yours too) that Jesus is Lord. Is neither a matter of if, nor a matter of when, but a matter of from where you will be confessing It. Santa will be doing the same, and something tells me that He will be doing it from the same side as me. I’ll get to hang out with Santa, some of you won’t, and that is not even the worst of all. Enjoy Christmas, or the Holidays, or both. I pray that one day, before Christmas, during Christmas or after Christmas the Spirit of God convicts you and that all put their trust in Christ. Good night

F YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU ARE FOLLOWING HIS TEACHINGS, you will NOT lie to your children or other children and tell them that Santa Claus is real.

IF YOU ACCEPTED JESUS' FREE GIFT OF SALVATION, YOU BECOME A SAINT SAVED BY GRACE AT THE MOMENT YOU ACCEPTED HIM INTO YOUR LIFE.

Jesus' salvation makes individuals saints; church have no scriptural authority to do that.

Posted by: joe_allen_doty | December 9, 201
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I emphatically do NOT "believe in Jesus." However, I do believe in Joe Allen Doty and the Christians.

Every time I read one of his antisemtic racist posts I believe in the Christians. Every time a gay commits suicide, I believe in the Christians.

Discuss, share your opinion, but inciting and offensive comments debase any discussion.

POSTED BY: CHCHCH2 |

You'll have to be more specific than that. which particular comment did you find so offensive?

And really, why should I give a sht what you think? Give me an answer on both questions, I'll respond in a more 'friendly' manner.

And, uh, go ahead, tell me how I'm suppose to enjoy christmas, the right way.

One thing I missed in the original article was any sense of age appropriateness. Like, at what age should kids be able to distinguish those various kinds of truth or lack thereof? at what age do they get to know that the historical St. Nick saved young women from prostitution?

eezmamata: If you want to insult any faith group (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist), you need to understand that it is completely inappropriate to do it in the comments section of a newspaper OPINION article. Discuss, share your opinion, but inciting and offensive comments debase any discussion.

This pastor sounds like a panicky paranoiac--do you really think that your kids will hate you and judge you as abominable hypocrites just because you once told them that a generous, happy old man who loves children is real?? Are you so freakin' incompetent as parents that all of that hinges on one holiday tradition? Is your religion so frail that it can't outlast a mere folktale? (You don't have to answer that one.)

I have wonderful memories of coming downstairs on Christmas morning to see that Santa drank all the milk but left one cookie with a single bite taken out of it on the plate. It was fun, and to this day, I love my much-older brothers for having withstood the temptation to ruin it for me until I was clearly old enough and began expressing my old doubts. I love that my parents took such joy in playing some make-believe with me. It didn't doom me to hell and it didn't negate the decent values I was learning in Sunday school.

The Santa Claus legend is the basis of a rich, multi-national folk tradition, inspiring art, poetry, and music that all people can enjoy, even if they aren't Christian. (Oh...is that your problem? You don't want non-Christians and Christians having fun with one another?) Santa Claus brings people of all ages together in a spirit of love, generosity, and joy. I see nothing wrong with that, and I'm not alone.

It's clear that you want to spill all the beans from the very get-go. Watchya gonna do when your kids start asking you for details about where babies come from??

Are there any Old Testament saints, or is this purely an invention of Christianity?

IF YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU ARE FOLLOWING HIS TEACHINGS, you will NOT lie to your children or other children and tell them that Santa Claus is real.

IF YOU ACCEPTED JESUS' FREE GIFT OF SALVATION, YOU BECOME A SAINT SAVED BY GRACE AT THE MOMENT YOU ACCEPTED HIM INTO YOUR LIFE.

Jesus' salvation makes individuals saints; church have no scriptural authority to do that.

oh my gosh! i can't believe all of the haters in the comments section lol!!!!

this is a christian pastor sharing how he includes santa in his christmas celebrations. he's not even commenting on what non-christians should do at christmas so why are you getting your dander all up?

LOL!

It's always fun to watch Christians become infuriated over non-believers being allowed to enjoy Christmas. It's a Christian holiday, dammit, and no one else should be able to have a good time. The Christian grinch strikes again!

Posted by: DaveHarris

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Yeah, a Christina holiday dammit, that we stole from the Pagans to help convert them. Jesus was born in the spring, but Chirstmas is all about Jesus!! Christmas tress are forbidden in the Bible (Jeramiah 9) as false idols and the tress and exchanging gifts are pagan solsitice celebration traditions, but Christmas belongs to Christians!! And only Christians!!

Ah, yes, the 'being a fool is a virtue' ploy. Works for lots of people.

Thanks Pastor Mark for sharing what you and your wife have chosen to tell your kids about Santa. I appreciate your take on this topic. After reading through most of the comments on this page, I must say I am overwhelmed with gratitude to Jesus for giving me the ability to see and know Him.

"Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their craftiness,"
1 Corinthians 3:18-19

Last year they had a young lady, 18, telling us about her bitter disappointment at learning there really was no Santa Claus.
But she calmed herself down she said, and stated the reason she wasn't so upset anymore was "We don't need Santa Claus, because we have Jesus"

Oh, man, I can still smell the irony, from this far away.

You Christians believe in this god of yours, you believe in this jesus guy who either was your god, or was his bаstard son issued forth from holy adultery, or ... whatever, you believe in both of them or it.
Look how well trained you are in swallowing hooey, this trinity business is designed to keep you willingly credulous and gullible, once you've eaten of this ripe one you have far less trouble eating the rest of it.

I have to hand it to the designers of your religion, they knew what they were doing, how to keep you suckered and never ask questions.

And now, you have declared this war on christmas which you claim has been declared on you. Look at what you christians are saying right here ... we're not allowed to celebrate christmas unless we believe in your gods, we're not allowed to enjoy the season unless we kiss your foolish butts on what it really means.

We're really getting tired of you. Why do you think the numbers of atheists continue to grow?

I don't see how anyone can doubt the historical existence of Jesus, he was obviously a great moralist and a wonderful storyteller. I think of him as a 1st century Abraham Lincoln, who shared many of his moralizing and storytelling traits (along with a martyrdom). Does anyone doubt the existence of Honest Abe?

Although I don't yet have kids, I will be telling them that Santa exists. As somebody in my early twenties with siblings who still believe, I view it not as my parents lying to me, but as an incredible, magical gift my parents gave to me.

Honestly, do people really think their children are going to lie to them when they find out that Santa is a lie? Your teen is going to think "I'm not going to tell you that my friends are all drinking because you told me that Santa existed when I was five?"

And in reality, Santa IS real. It turns out that Santa isn't a man who lives at the North Pole, but Santa is my mom, who lovingly chose gifts for us.

This was actually a very good paradigm for my own Christianity, as I simply can't believe in a traditional Christian male God. Or the literal ascension of Jesus. I've tried, but it just doesn't work for me. Santa taught me that just because I can't believe that Jesus literally rose into the sky, just because I don't believe in this traditional male God sitting in the sky, this doesn't mean I can't be a Christian, and a faithful one at that.

I'll certainly be giving my future children the gift of Santa.

My opinion on Jesus' miracles is that you either believe in the supernatural or you don't. If you don't, a historical examination of the gospels will reveal that they aren't newspapers, they were written 20 to 50 years after Jesus lived. At the time there were competing faiths to Christianity, and those faiths had miracle stories suspiciously close to the ones in the gospels. So they were added in by the church fathers as good advertising.

Are u 4 real dude? If u can't xplain Santa to a child you're more ridiculous than your religion.

I see the Santa story as the child's version of the Jesus story. The magic man who brings you toys/eternal life. I tell my kids about Santa, and will let them decide about Jesus on their own. Merry Christmas everybody!

Aww.. I'm a Christian and I will be telling my kids about Santa Claus, myths and all. There's no harm in it; it's a fun holiday and it doesn't detract from Jesus. I agree with a previous commenter - it's a little "grinchy" to take all the fun away for everyone else, religious or not.

FYI for those who keep saying "Jesus is a myth..." He's not, he is very real, and I hope you can experience him one day. He's changed my whole life... I used to be a staunch Dawkins-esque atheist.

Great explanation Pastor Mark.
The existence of Jesus is documented in detail, you either believe it or not. the myth of a fat guy on a red suit and fluffy white beard that flies and enters people houses to leave presents is a PROVEN fantasy! no one can claim having seen him. Jesus miracles on the other hand are documented in testimonies by people. You may not believe Jesus stories, but how can you prove that the witnesses of 2000+ years ago made it up? even secular writers of the time reported on them

Unbelievable IRONY, but true.
Most Christians believe that Santa is a Myth, yet they believe that there are three Gods in one, that a God Jr. named Jesus was born to a virgin impregnated by God the Father Spirit, that a super-being fallen Angel (Satan) is REAL, That a Hell and Heaven are REAL places that "souls" of humans go to (forever) when their "bodies" die. [watch out- Many of those MYTH believers believe that children and infants who haven't heard of or accepted Jesus as their personal GOD are doomed forever.]

My question is rhetorical:
How can Christians conceive of such a God, let alone WORSHIP such a MONSTER?

Typical Thanksgiving prayer:
"Thank thee oh Lord for blessing US with this bountiful meal - - - and we will pretend that we are just not meant to understand why you - the SAME all powerful Lord select millions of LESS WORTHY (?) men women and children to die of starvation - at the same time"??????????

God is Santa Clause for adults.

Parents lie to their kids perpetually, not just at Christmas. I grow tired of Christians complaining of being persecuted becasue of things like Sants Claus and the Easter Bunny, or by people saying "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas."

Thanks Mark. Just the thought that we weren't teaching our kids the Santa myth drew a lot of criticism. We don't do it for exactly the same reason.

For the folks who think it's hypocritical to teach your kids about Jesus but not Santa, here's the big difference. You don't believe in the Santa myth but you teach it to your kids anyway because it's the "spirit of Christmas" and it's "fun". Until they turn 8, realize it's not true and not only that it's not true, but YOU don't even believe in it. You've told them something exists that you know doesn't, that's a lie.

Christians teach their kids about Christ because we believe in Him. IF it was true that there was no Jesus Christ, virgin-born Messiah, then we have taught them something that isn't true, but at least it would not be because we knew it wasn't true and taught them that anyway.

The story of the real St. Nicholas is one of faith and charity... inspired by faith in Christ and charity based upon God's gift to us. The Santa myth is about control, i.e., you better be good or Santa won't get you any presents. There's no other way around it, you're lying to your children. If you're good with that then, well, they're your kids, you raise them as you want. We weren't ok lying to them so we aren't doing it.

Whether there was an itinerant preacher with the name we call Jesus, who was in part the model for the Jesus of the New Testament, or not, the claims found in the gospels and epistles about Jesus as deity are unsupported by any evidence.

A number of claims found in the Gospel, including some of the stories related to His birth, are clearly inventions (the star, the Flight to Egypt and the Slaughter of the Innocents, the travel for the census).

Faith is not what is seen, but what is unseen. Can you see the wind? No, but you can feel and see the affects of the wind.

St. Nicholas was aware of such faith, in fact it was what compelled him to live a life that was "Christ like", to care and love others the way Christ did and does.

So as a believer in Christ, the trinity, I also believe in imagination, the gift of story and dreaming, big, big beautiful dreams! That is the heart of my heavenly Father the author of life, of sunsets, the harvest moon and shooting stars, that is romance, that is beauty....that is a gift that surrounds us daily, the only gift that keeps on giving!
My children believe in Christ, they also believe that all things are possible through Christ, so, they believe that there was a goodly man who gave gifts to children, who was revealing the very heart of Christ. They are more excited to sing happy birthday to jesus on Christmas morn and blow out the candles of his birthday cake then they are about sitting on Santa's lap. Until they ask, they will dream and believe in the story of Santa Claus, but the focus of our home (ALL YEAR ROUND) is the true story of our new life in Christ, the author and finisher of our lives..... Oh and by the way, we LOVE St Hallows Eve too, we dress up, the whole family and give candy and laugh and love the 100+ children that come to our door with a twinkling in their eyes and a smile on their faces! Makes my heart glad, I know it makes God's heart glad too.

"While (St)Nicholas appears to have actually existed, there is no documentation that Jesus ever did - outside the New Testament.
It's Jesus who is the mythlogical character, not Santa."

Most Historians agree that there was a Jesus, and that he did exist. There are sources outside the New Testament that mention Jesus: Josephus, an Orthodox Jew and Historian mentions him, Mara Bar-Serapion, a Syrian in first century A.D...Tacitus, Pliny, and Lucian are others to research.

Therefore, it is more a decision of whether or not you believe he was a Messiah and everything else he claimed to be.

I think it always so funny how none believers of CHRISTianity criticize CHRISTians for wanting to celebrate the birth of Jesus CHRIST on CHRISTmas. I mean how dare they! We can say Happy HOLIday all we want, but it doesn't take away the fact that CHRISTmas is about the birth of Jesus CHRIST. And if CHRISTians want to use CHRISTian Saints to give examples of generosity, then so be it.

I love how these same critics scream tolerance, but in the next breath are like the Romans, ready to burn Christians at the stake to light up Rome.

Mark did an excellent job sharing his thoughts on the issue. Thank-You!

The entire Christmas tradition is a form of Winter Soltstice Celebrations.

Sorry, there was really no Christ fellow born on that day.

Sorry, as truth often pisses people like you - followers of the "sun" lol - off.

S.Clause is more of a reason for the "season" than any Christ guy - who may or may not have even existed.

I'm pretty sure there was a Cris Kringle, though.

History's tough. looks like you all failed it in school.

You've all got it pretty much screwed-up.

Again, sorry.

I have problem with accepting the blogger's relationship with Jesus.

In my family when I was growing up and even after I became an adult, ON DECEMBER 24,we read the story of Jesus' birth, found only in the Gospel of Luke, had family prayer and then opened our gifts to each other.

If we got any presents on DECEMBER 25, they were given to us by relatives or friends of the family on that day.

We were taught about the mythical legends of Santa Claus; but, we were told the truth about Jesus.

So... are they're people arguing that Saint Nicholas was NOT a real Christian who lived his life for Jesus?

Santa Claus has no connection with the Birth of Jesus. Unlike Jesus, Santa Claus is a respecter of persons.

Jesus gives his free gift of salvation to all people no matter what the financial status.

But, Santa Claus gives expensive gifts to rich children and little or nothing at all to poor children.

Amen, GAROTH. I am a really serious scientist and know a fact when I see one: a fact is a proposition that may, or may not, prove true upon subsequent testing over time. Lots of tests, lots and lots of time. What was a hard, indubitable, scientific "fact" 150 years ago sounds like complete lunacy today.

On the other hand, myths (including the quasi-factual Santa Claus) embody truths that endure, out of time, pretty much forever. Santa Claus is the real deal: he actually, factually, really, historically existed, not once, but at least twice, and his reality is (beyond historical or scientific proof) thoroughly, completely for sure. As my three kids all more-or-less believe (kinda, sorta).

As a hard-boiled, hard-nosed, University-based scientist, I totally believe in Santa Claus. Anyone who doesn't is missing the point entirely.

Look it up.
Merry Christmas to All

Heather,

What's the difference between the Santa tradition (myth) and the Jesus Christ tradition (myth)?

Why would you decide to go along with one myth but not the other?

In sum, Saint Nick was a wonderful man who loved and served Jesus faithfully. So, we gladly include him in our Christmas traditions to remind us of what it looks like for someone to live a life of devotion to Jesus as God
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This is a confusing statement. Why would a saint "serve" Jesus? Wouldn't a saint serve God faithfully as Jesus did? Jesus as GOD?? Really? So, was Jesus praying to himself when he asked, "Father why have you forsaken me?"....uhhh, NO. Jesus worshiped God and only God. I think a lot of "Christians" believe that Christ, himself, was a Christian. They forget that he was a Hebrew man who was so blessed by God and given to humanity as a prime example of how humans should be:

Do unto others as you'd have them do to you

We have a LONG way to go.

There is no Christian conundrum with Santa Claus. He's fake. It's entertainment. It's for fun. There is nothing to explain. Sheesh, why does everything require a dang thesis?

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

You poor, poor unimaginative people
You must have gotten coal in you stocking for Christmas

Rev. Driscoll I have a feeling that your group is more of a cult than a church

By the way, your poll is faulty, since parents probably tell their children different things about Santa at different times of their life. To try to explain some abstract notions about grace and giving to a three-year-old is fruitless - they do not yet have the ability to handle abstract concepts, so Santa works for them. By nine or ten, hopefully you have morphed into talking aobut those principles, and left Santa behind. The only one I would never choose is, "Santa doesn't visit our house." That means that either we've done something wrong, so that Santa won't come; or it means there's something deeper that is wrong with us, so that there is no sense of joy, celebration and gift-giving in our house. If I were Santa, I wouldn't want to visit a house like that, either!

I agree with Christian Miner. As both a theologian and a psychologist, I am aware of the difference between "fact" and "truth." While Jesus' parables were not "facts" they were, nevertheless, true - in the same way that the creation stories were not "factual" but "true." When my kids were little, they loved Santa Claus, and the myth enabled us to talk about what he meant - and to distinguish between "you better watch out" (works-righteousness) and the "graceful" Santa who loves all children, thus teaching them a reality that they could not understand in the abstract. As they grew older, and realized that Santa was not a real person, they already understood what the myth was all about. And that we had, in fact, told them the truth, even if the factuality of the myth was questionable.

We are so enamored by "facts," that we think that they are the only thing that is important, that not being "factual" is not being "truthful." Oftentimes myths are more truthful, however, than "facts," which are less objective than we often realize. The deeper truths of life are rarely revealed by "facts;" they often have little bearing on the greater truths of life. Or, to re-paraphrase a statement by Jesus, "People shall not live by facts alone...!"

It's always fun to watch Christians become infuriated over non-believers being allowed to enjoy Christmas. It's a Christian holiday, dammit, and no one else should be able to have a good time. The Christian grinch strikes again!

The insipid hypocrisy in telling the Santa myth as a myth, but the jesus myth as a truth is just ... awe inspiring.

So parents lie to kids about Santa to make them behave. Who is lying to parents about the jesus myth, and why?

Don't you people ever ask yourselves that question?

My views on Santa have morphed as I age.It is not just a harmless tradition. Encouraging kids to believe in Santa is the first big lie we tell children. When they discover that he is not real, they might wonder if other things parents have taught them about their Christian faith are just nice myths too. The birth of Christ is amazing and beautiful enough in an of itself to capture any child's imagination. It needs no ancillaries. We don't need "Santa" to bring out a spirit of joy, generosity and love.

Don't be so hasty in debunking the Santa myth adult conspriacy. This can be used as a valuable and edifying case study for training future diplomats and politicians.

Well, Pastor Mark, it sounds as though what you tell your kids about Santa is thoughtful, wise and reasonable. However, your column embraces a glaring fallacy, namely the opposition of "truth" and "myth." You are guilty of concrete thinking here: a myth is not a false fact or some sort of lie; rather, a myth is a narrative that conveys an enduring set of abstract ideas and values, all perfectly "true" on their own terms, in their own timeless dimension. Appeal to empirical verification is entirely beside the point.

Incidentally, when it comes to empirical verification, your little scribblings on the historical St. Nicholas include any number of unverifiable (and probably untrue) claims about our great hero
(my eldest son is named in honor of the Orthodox St.. Nicolas).

You also omit a fair number of historical facts that are reasonably well established, especially re: the Dutch St. Nick. The idea of St. Nicholas, Kris Kringle, Santa Claus goes back farther in time than you might possibly imagine. The "Christmas Tree" (truly, unimaginably ancient goes back before the last Ice Age) is pretty much as old as the human race in the Northern Hemisphere, thousands of years before the time of Our Lord. (We're talking tens, if not hundreds of thousands of years.)

You seem incapable of imagining that, like me, fathers have been naming their children after St. Nicholas since the fourth century, nearly two-thousand years ago. It must be cool, Pastor Mark, to get your own column in the WP, but, as a Christian, you must realize that you have a significant, evangelical responsibility: you've got to summon your Christian wisdom and also embrace the historical facts as we know them, and as they evolve with new scientific discoveries. Check out the writings of Theodore Gaster (translated some of the Dead Sea Scrolls), Mercea Eliada, Elaine Pagels, Claude Levi-Strauss and above all, the collection of Sami myths, stories, songs, and poems that go back in time, thousands of years before Jesus Christ, very much beyond your wildest imagination.

Yours in Christ,
Christian Miner

You have a great voice. You have an even greater responsibility.
You cannot in Christian conscience continue to say things of such fantastic ignorance. (In the old days, they called this sort of stuff "blasphemy" with the burnings-at-the-stake and all
Yours in Christ,

Christian Miner, Ph.D.
Christian Miner

Christians are worried their children will believe a myth and become confused when they find out it has no basis in fact? Is their no room for faith?

Since Santa is so pervasive in our culture, it is nearly impossible to simply reject Santa as part of our annual cultural landscape. Still, as parents we don't feel we can simply receive the entire story of Santa because there is a lot of myth built on top of a true story.

Since Jesus Christ is so pervasive in our culture, it is nearly impossible to simply reject Jesus Christ as part of our annual cultural landscape. Still, as parents we don't feel we can simply receive the entire story of Jesus Christ because there is a lot of myth built on top of a true story.

Exactly.

Perhaps the Santa tradition teaches kids the proper place for skepticism. Those you trust most could be lying to you.

While (St)Nicholas appears to have actually existed, there is no documentation that Jesus ever did - outside the New Testament.
It's Jesus who is the mythlogical character, not Santa.

Next you'll be telling me that Jesus wasn't really born on December 25th...WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT???

you theocons have no problem about lying that Obama is a Muslim and all liberals are terrorists - what's your problem with Santa Claus?
Happy Holidays!
Posted by: areyousaying
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Obama is not a Muslim but he did have a Muslim father and stepfather and he grew up in a Muslim country.

I do not see any signs that he is a Muslim, but in my view those who worry are not nuts.

Secondly, you liberals are not terrorists but you are like a child who whines when he gets only 70% of the pie. "HE should not have got ANYTHING!", you cry.

I am glad Obama finally has realized the truth about his irrational constituency.

Too bad it happened after Pelosi was confirmed as minority leader. Now that Obama has become a moderate, she is the best hope of the Republicans...

The fun of Santa is telling kids he exists while they pretend they believe us.

I find this really funny. People telling their kids that one myth is just that, so they can perpetuate other myths. it's like telling kids the Easter bunny is a myth so you can convince them of the tooth-fairy's veracity. Human beings are funny creatures.

you theocons have no problem about lying that Obama is a Muslim and all liberals are terrorists - what's your problem with Santa Claus?

Happy Holidays!

"We tell our kids that he was a real person who did live a long time ago...We explain how, in addition to the actual story of Santa, a lot of other stories have been added (e.g., flying reindeer, living in the North Pole, delivering presents to every child in one night) so that Santa is a combination of true and make-believe stories." Gee--that's just what I told my kids about Jesus (though the e.g. part was different--virgin birth, resurrection, son of "god," etc.).

Wireman65, above, asks a very good question. Why NOT come clean about the big myth of the season?

Oh, okay, the Santa Claus story is a myth but the jesus story and the god story and the virgin mother story are not myths! These are the kinds of stories that people are put in institutions for telling. The insanity of christianity is so pervasive that all the inmates are allowed to be free. When will this madness end!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Parents should also come clean on the rest of the myths they are forcing on their trusting children. You know, the other fairy tale about this time of year. Happy Holidays

I couldn't agree more. When my husband and I decided not go along with the Santa tradition that has taken over Christmas, it was questioned by some people close to us. I shared a link to this article on my blog as a way to better explain our choice. Thanks Pastor Mark for articulating this topic so well.