Conversion, murder and India's Supreme Court

I do believe the Hindu religion can do without this kind of wise-ass pontification from self-appointed experts who have barely skimmed the surface of Hindu philosophy. To coin a word, there is a faintly 'stuperior' attitude that emerges from the writer's 'joust' against Hinduism. Merely dropping words like 'pagan' and 'oppressive' cannot be sufficient argument against any religion, nor can any incident, however heinous, be seen as just and sufficient cause for censure of the religion itself. All religions have their share of misguided zealots and practitioners and no religion exists that has not seen its fair share
of CRUELTY AND OPPRESSION. As for the Supreme Courts pronouncements, we can take care of our own judicial system thank you -our perceptions of justice are not necessarily inferior to yours. As for you, you can help by refraining from treading on unfamiliar turf and by
keeping your precious Staines' to yourselves.

Edbyronadams,
There is a reason why you are "mystified".
For most people who are not Christian or Muslim, religion is about evolving as a person. For the "political religions", it's about winning at all cost. Even if this means hurting others and causing problems.

Yasseryousufi,
You wrote, "Looks like they are confusing mob rule with democracy in India." That's hilarious, especially coming from someone in Pakistan where the murderer of Governor Taseer was celebrated by the majority (true mob rule?).
Predatory proselytization is a very real source of problems and division. For "political religionists", it may be mystifying. But for most mature and decent people, it is a serious problem that must be addressed. The supporters of missionaries need to look deeply within and ask themselves what their true intentions are.

BTW,
I know Muslims and Christians like simple narratives about Dalits in India because of their their not-so-hidden destructive agenda. But the recent Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India was a Dalit. One of the authors of the Indian Constitution was a Dalit. Some of the leading politicians in India today are Dalits. Does this progress in Indian society since independence in 1947 make you happy or sad. If it makes you sad, then you know what your true intentions are in this "game" of conversion.
Be Honest. The Truth always wins.

I'm mystified. How can a free market of spiritual ideas create misery?

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In the years following Indian independence, there has been a widespread perception that Christian missionaries have used financial allurements to induce conversions.

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Whats wrong with that? If Hinduism cannot give Dalits any sense of respect nor fill their empty tummies nor the spiritual void, they have every right to take up another religion that gives them a modicum of respect. I didn't really know Hindu's in India have enacted laws to prevent conversions that have been upheld by the Indian Supreme Court. What kind of a fascist democracy is this? Looks like they are confusing mob rule with democracy in India. The plight of Dalits brought about by Hinduism is unimaginable by itself, now they cannot even get out of this out of their free will. By the way, if hindus believe its just the money and not the mindlessness of their pagan rituals thats driving those Dalits away from Hinduism, why dont their Mittals and Ambanis dig deep in their big pockets and see if they can buy off a few Hindus in Haiti or Nicaragua or Rwanda.

Christian missionaries have caused far more problems and created more division, suffering, and pain than they have alleviated. This is true not just in India, but in numerous places throughout the world, like Nigeria and Sudan. Islam is also guilty of causing similar harm and disruption of communities.

It is the supremacist ideology inherent in Christian and Islamic missionaries that motivates their efforts. It is not sincere charity.

All this pain, all this offense, all this division & discord is for what? If concern for your fellow human motivates you, then there is plenty to do for your fellow Christians and muslims who suffer from poverty and disease. Why go to far away lands where you are only causing problems?

We all know the dysfunction that is the answer to the above question. This "dysfunctional spirituality" of supremacism is recognized by all non-Christian and non-Muslim people in the world, whether they are Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, or any native religion from the Amazon to Nigeria to India.

Predatory Proselytization is a sin. It should be a crime by local and international law. Vigilante justice or violence is certainly not the correct response. But a mature discussion about the destructive effects of proselytization and the strange & ethically questionable motivations of missionaries is absolutely necessary.

Slavery was common in the Christian and Islamic world for centuries, but times have changed. The racial supremacism that supported the idea of slavery is no longer acceptable.
Similarly, the religious supremacism that supports the idea of aggressive & predatory proselytization must now be called unacceptable.

Greetings, Thomas Baum,

A belated happy new year, to you!

Conversionism is, in fact, a word with more than one meaning. It's current among religious types and is gaining currency in India for obvious reasons. White boys should go home, IMO (no offense). Use google.

Regards,
Farnaz

Farnaz2Mansouri2

You wrote, "Conversionism is wrong. It is WROMG. It is a form of violence."

Since "conversionism" is not a word, I will have to guess what you mean by it and I will give that a shot.

If by "conversionism", you mean forcing one to convert than it is indeed wrong.

If by "conversionism", you mean someone telling someone else about Catholicism, since this is what you were referring to concerning "conversionism" and letting them make up their own mind than it is not only not wrong but it is speaking to the dignity of another human being and giving them the respect that every human being should have in making their own decisions, don't you think?

You then wrote, "It does not have to convert them. It knows the position of India on this."

It also does not have to not convert them, at least it should be that way.

To convert or not to convet should be left to the individual concerned.

As far as the "position of India on this", India is a country, it can not possibly have a position one way or the other.

What it is the "position of" is people and as far as I am concerned and as far as anyone else should be concerned is that EVERYONE should have the God-given right to freely believe what they wish to believe.

Do you wish for ANYONE to tell you what you can and cannot believe?

Hope you are doing well and even tho you don't believe in God, you happen to be wrong in this but, in a way, one could say partly wrong.

What I mean by this statement is that God is not even remotely like what some of those that believe in God, believe God to be and I, most definitely, include in this group some of those that do know God's Name.

So, in a way, to not believe in the "God" that some present God to be is correct.

You and everyone else will one day find out that God is truly One to be thankful for and to.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

"Along with this came negative portrayals of Hinduism as pagan and oppressive."

Please ignore the Hindu treatment of widows as any evidence of oppression.

Thank you.

But the fear remains that low caste groups will convert en masse to Christianity and thus reconfigure the religious and political landscape. It is certainly the case that Catholic and Protestant schools and hospitals have significant visibility in India. This visibility contributes to the perception that Christians are privileged and that India's poor would be uniquely attracted to such an apparently affluent religion. Institutions such as Staines's leprosy clinic are thus understood as inevitably promoting conversions in contexts where there is competition over very limited resources.
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In fact, the RCC has made the Dalit, the three hundred million enslaved, trafficked, raped, murdered, wretched of the earth, its special project.

RCC apologists defend their conversionism of the Dalit with the argument that it relieves them of the burden of caste. This is true.

It is also true that the RCC attempts to educate the Dalit, give them access to education, etc.

Conversionism is wrong. It is WROMG. It is a form of violence. If the RCC is concerned about the Dalit, as many people are, it should use its billions in real estate, oil, etc. to help them without converting them. It should pressure the Indian government to work harder and faster on the matter of caste.

If the RCC continues on this path, if the PRotestants do, the situation will grow worse.

It's horrible all around, but the RCC could help the Dalit to develop businesses of their own. It could be creative. It does not have to convert them. It knows the position of India on this.

On Faith should have more articles like this about really serious intersections among faith, class, jurisprudence and economics, and less arguing about Beck, Palin and Haggard.