A Parent's Gift To A Child: Speaking of God

This blog is pretty interesting, will add a bookmark, thanks.

Anyone know where I can read up on more info on this

On Speaking of God, if there is one thing I have noticed both within and outside of the LDS Church is that there is no shortage of people who somehow think that God needs their help to do his own work. I say let God do his own speaking, and put an end to the overeager, self-called stand-ins who think their efforts are required for God to accomplish anything or everything. Classic Ark-steadiers (1 Chr. 13: 9-12). We do ourselves a disservice when we chomp at the bit to speak on behalf of God. Michael Otterson this means you. Undoubtedly you probably have been told and even set apart as a spokesman for the Church to think you have some special role in communicating Gods plan of Salvation. No doubt you probably make a lot of money (off the tithepayer) doing it. All the more reason to distrust you and anyone else with a financial incentive to deceive us. If God wants us to speak of himself or to listen to you or anyone else who thinks they have the answers, let HIM (god himself) make it known publicly and openly. Now I perceive that there is a lot of scoffing going on at this moment once people read this. So be it. That's an indication that people in general have very little faith at all.

Many people read the Bible and even earn the reputation as a Bible “scholar” because of their study and writings about what they have studied. But it is actually not the reading of the Bible that is the loving Him but the doing of it as James says in chp 1:22-25.

The apostle John also tells us in his first letter, chp 2:3-5 that knowing God is about doing what He tells us to do, or obeying His commands. If we do obey His commands His love is truly made complete in us. John goes on to say that another way we demonstrate our love for Jesus is to love our brothers. In fact, this is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in His presence when our hearts condemn us.

Knowing and loving God is all about doing as He lovingly commands His children. What are His commands? To believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us.

Finally, Jesus commanded us in the “Great Commission” to go and make disciples of all nations… and teach them to obey everything He commanded us. A disciple is a student who carries his role much further than the typical student of today. He is one who not only learns the teachings of his master but also works to become like his master. The commands of our Master are actually few; believe and love.

Fortunately He does not order us to somehow develop emotional responses, as we are prone to define love, He simply says, I love you, I will only command you to do what is good for you and for others and I will consider it love if you will just do your best to obey what I have commanded you. Believe in Me and love as I love. Know Me, love Me.

Impish,

Isn't indoctrinating YOUR children that religion is "superstitious nonsense" and "evil" the same thing?

Why not let them determine that for themselves?

Why? Because you wish your children to follow a course that you believe to be correct and best for them and as a parent you have a right and responsibility to do that.

Those of those who adhere to strong religious principles merely wish to be allowed to do the same thing.

Michael
I'm grateful for the Savior and for the example he gave us. Recently we were reading scriptures with our kids and we came to a portion of the Book of Mormon where Jesus Christ, who has just come to the American continent shortly after his resurrection, gathers the children around him and blesses and teaches them. There's a moment where he is going to leave and he looks out at the people and they are pleading with them with their eyes to stay. I became emotional as I sat there with my children, realizing what a responsibility it is to rear them to be self-sufficient, thinking, compassionate people.

I want the best for my kids and sometimes it's hard to know what's best. Dr. Spock? Dr. Lara? Dr. Scholls? Is there a prescription, a formula to use to give them the best chance of becoming good people. The Gospel of Jesus Christ provides a formula for me.

The Savior taught us the will of his Father, also our God and Father: to be compassionate, to server others, to forgive, to seek forgiveness, to learn as much as we can. And he provided mechanisms to practice and hone these attributes. One mechanism is the mormon church.

I'm proud to teach my kids of the Savior and of his church.

I am not going to take the time to read all the blogs, I did read the one by McConkie, I have mixed feelings about your blog and of course I respect your right to choose. Five years ago my daughter fell off the path of church activity, that of course was very hard for me, and I had to find positives to focus on. I would encourage her to not let go of her belief in Christ or in God, so that she could implement spirituality in her child's life. She has each year gone further from that, at one point she talked about attending another religion, I told her that having some source of religion is better than none at all, but that never happened. She has started to become interested in Budisim, I don't know the spelling on that, I do not doubt that there is good in that, but I have to admit that it makes me sad that she has lost her belief in a life after death, as the LDS church teaches. She was an only child and her father died when she was 11 years old. I joke with she and her husband and tell them that their daughter will probably rebel and become a conservative Mormon when she grows older. If that were to happen, I would hope that her parents would let her make those choices, as I have done with my child.

I agree with Bro. Otterson in that differences in religion, especially when drastic can cause difficulties. Even if the child is able to make a decision for themselves at a young age, and perhaps unite with one parent or the other in a religious belief, it will undoubtedly instill questins as to why the other parent believes differently which can easily lead to conflict. Searching for truth is good, but there is a time and place for it. For a parent to rear a child in what they undoubtedly believe is right, is nothing more than what they believe is doing the right thing. There are many facets of parenting that can be challenging. What and when should a child be taught about sexual relations? When should children be able to date? What type of language is permitted in the home? Parents most decidedly normally have rules concerning these things while the child is growing up, and yet the children might have different idea's when they are adults. An example from my own life was that my parents had a rule that I could not get my Drivers License until I had attained my Eagle Scout in Boy Scouts. Because of a lack of interest, I didn't get my eagle scout until a week before my 18th birthday, and subsequently, I did not receive my drivers license until then. Now, of course, I was not in agreement with their idea's of how to err..."inspire"...me to accomplish something as good as an Eagle Scout. Of course it has been valuable to have, but I would not use the same methods to have my child attain it. My father also didn't have the same restrictions and he never attained it, and perhaps that is part of his desire for me to accomplish it.

The point I'm trying to make is quite simply, any decision that has a direct impact on a childs growth and life is one that is most easily taught when both parents are in unity on what is to be taught. Can it be done differently? Of course. Stick to common ground as best as possible, and then present any differing opinions.

It's interesting to note that parenting (according to my beliefs) was a great way for our Heavenly Father to institute the teaching of new generations. But oh the stretching and growing that occurs to the parents in the process.

Michael Otterson said:
"If parents have substantially differing concepts of God, they have bigger issues to face in their children’s religious education than simply describing the significance of Christmas."

Thank you for this concise statement. It speaks not of the child (as many on this thread have assumed), but of the challenges faced by the parents in rearing the child. The same could be said for any other child-rearing challenge faced by parents. If parents have substantially differing concepts of discipline, for instance, they will face big issues in how to raise the child.

When parents are united in their approach to any given issue of child rearing, they will have fewer challenges in that process. I did not take your comments as passing judgment on one path over another, but on the challenges faced by parents.

Thanks, again, for your thoughts.

My gift to my children is to teach them to question things and not to just accept things because someone older tells them. I tell them that people sometimes get things wrong. I sometimes get things wrong and their teachers don't know everything.

I teach my children about all the religions that I know about. I tell them that religion is very important and that they should make up their own minds about religion when they are older and better informed. I tell them what I believe and that many other people don't agree with me, but I don't force my beliefs on my children.

I really should spell and grammar check my posts when I'm tired. ;-) That should be "I never found any solid evidence that anything supernatural is anything other than the product of our imaginations."

That illustrates my point nicely. Our brains make a lot of mistakes when processing information. We take shortcuts in logic and believe things without evidence. This is where the belief in supernatural things comes from. We imagine things that aren't real and our memories are very unreliable, and some people take advantage of these things to manipulate others. When I realized that, all of the religious experiences that I had made sense.

Michael,
I also was very religious when I was young. I was brought up as a Lutheran and gave up Christianity at around 12 years old because it just didn't make any sense. I went searching for the meaning of life and I practiced various religions until my twenties. I had many religious experiences, but eventually realized after doing a science degree that religion is a product of the human mind.

We see ghosts and UFOs and believe all kinds of strange things, but in ten years of intense searching I never found anything solid evidence that anything supernatural is anything other than the produce of our imaginations.

Regards,
Realist

Equality asked:

"... Should the couple divorce? Would it be better for the woman to also resign her membership in the church in the interest of preserving marital unity and family harmony?"

I think that Equality's question suggests that there is a "cookie-cutter" approach that can work for certain, if not all family issues. Bro. O. is his post suggests the presence of "biggest issues". He didn't offer a suggestion as to how these issues were to be resolved. I believe that to do so would oversimplify those issues.

So too, I believe that trying to identify on a blog, answers to specific challenges that can occur in the dynamic environment that is the family, ignores the uniqueness that each family and it's members bring to that issue.

ANAT:
"Children should be allowed to form their own views, based on free access to all information."

I agree.
Unfortunately, the religious people will tell their child that their religion is the only REAL one. (if they mention any others at all!)

Voicing objections to certain practices is one thing, applying a label such as child abuse, which has real legal and social implications, is another. It is the latter I object to. Perhaps I am being unfair however, since I have not read Dawkin's book, I don't know if he qualifies his rhetoric. I'm just going on descriptions I have read on this site. I'll have to put it on my list.

Dawkins mainly objects to labeling children as belonging to a particular religion, and expecting that a child by default follow the religion of hir parents. Children should be allowed to form their own views, based on free access to all information.

Some of Dawkin's views illustrate the point that fanaticism is not contingent on belief in the supernatural.

The social/political consequences of labeling religious indoctrination child abuse are horrifying. So is CPS going to conduct investigations into families purported not to make fair mention of Buddhism during family night?

GIGI:
"In short one of my brothers is a Buddhist, the other is catholic, and I am LDS. We also have a close aunt who is a Jehovah’s Witness. This makes for really interesting conversations at family gatherings. (Needless to say I always end up being right. ha-ha)

Even though we are of different faiths we still manage to pray together.

What a great example my parents were to teach us and to bring us up in their faith and then to stand aside and let us decide for ourselves what we choose to believe."

That's great that you were let to decide for yourselves.
Unfortunately, according to Christians/Muslims, you're all going to some form of hell.

Michael Otterson posted: "This is not a new argument, especially from people without religious experience. The simplified version of it is, "I'm going to wait until my children grow up and let them decide about religion for themselves."

FYI Richard Dawkins was confirmed into the Anglican Church, and there is an interview with him by Jonathan Miller where he describes his religious experience in his youth, including intense prayer and visions.

I am so grateful that as a child my parents taught me about Jesus Christ and His gospel. As a result I learned to pray and to establish a personal relationship with my Heavenly Father. In my early twenties I started to question the church I belonged to and this led me to investigate many other faiths. My older brother too went through this same thirst for knowledge and truth. In the end he joined one religion and I joined another.

Our mother taught us that God has blessed us with our free agency to choose for ourselves what to believe in. She also taught us that we need to respect each others beliefs even if they greatly differ from our own.

In short one of my brothers is a Buddhist, the other is catholic, and I am LDS. We also have a close aunt who is a Jehovah’s Witness. This makes for really interesting conversations at family gatherings. (Needless to say I always end up being right. ha-ha)

Even though we are of different faiths we still manage to pray together.

What a great example my parents were to teach us and to bring us up in their faith and then to stand aside and let us decide for ourselves what we choose to believe.

Child abuse? I think not.

Dan:
Paths and Questions

From the Arch Bishop to Starhawk and Mrs Jacoby and all the posted comments all ring true with similiar tones. Choices; to love, accept or believe is what it boils down too. I think ,as with most everything in life, that there is a little truth to all.
If God is "Love" then God is Wiccan or Islam or Jewish, Christianity or even the non-believer because they all love. Consiquently if the answer is that simple its the question that must be all together confusing.
Find your place in the world. Love God, whatever you call him; he knows who your talking too (and love you back)
What's the worst that will happen? Either your dead and the joke is on you, or....

Peace to all, unconditionally

Bro. Otterson,

Thank you for kindly responding to my initial query. I should state that while I found Dawkins' latest book a provocative read, I think he does get a bit overheated when he says that parents indoctrinating their children in religion is tantamount to child abuse. He uses the most outrageous examples he can muster and then generalizes from them.

That said, I am interested in something else you said in your initial post. You said that:

"Parental conversations about something as fundamental as what to teach children about God should be held before marriage, especially if one or more of the parents have strong religious views.

If parents have substantially differing concepts of God, they have bigger issues to face in their children’s religious education than simply describing the significance of Christmas."

I wonder if you could elaborate on this a bit. What if parents hold united views on religion before they are married and have children but one of the spouses changes his or her religious views during marriage? Let's say a Baptist couple get married and one day the Mormon missionaries knock on the door. One thing leads to the next and soon the wife is baptized. The husband remains a Baptist. Should the couple get divorced so that the woman can find a good Mormon man and the husband can find himself a good Baptist girl? Would you oppose the woman's baptism in the first place in the interest of marital unity and family harmony?

What if you have a Mormon couple, married in the temple, active in the church for several years. Then the husband discovers things he never dreamed about the LDS Church. His faith is destroyed. He resigns from the church. Should the couple divorce? Would it be better for the woman to also resign her membership in the church in the interest of preserving marital unity and family harmony?

I celebrate christmas because I always have. I like getting goodies on christmas day. I like giving them too. I love the smell of the tree and pretty lights. I guess its more of a family tradition than a religous holiday. Its nice that the government recognizes my family tradition. I'm an atheist so all the religous BS doesn't intrest me. In recent years I've come to terms with Jesus. Jesus was just a man. With a realy big pair if you know what I mean. I like to think of Jesus as the first rebel. Although I will check out this Mirtha character.

To Sarah: Amen sister!!! The reason we celebrate Christmas is because of the birth of Jesus Christ. So be honest with your child and tell them the real meaning of why we celebrate it.

I might suggest as a reasonable foil to the Dawkins arguement, the recently published "The Language of God" by Francis S. Collins, the leader of the Human Genome Project. Dawkins' position that an intelligent person would not feel a need for the supernatural " unless he was brought up that way" is tested and found wanting by Colllins' life: His parents' view was that religion was not all that important and they encouraged him not to take theology seriously--good parenting in the Dawkins paradigm.

But the fly in the atheistic ointment--the physical laws of nature that turned out to be "elegant, surprisingly simple, and even beautiful"--drew Collins to the Christian view.

Adults might be better advised to take the search for truth more seriously before assuming the awesome responsibility of advising children.

Earth to Sara . . . you have every right to your rather narrow, confrontational viewpoint, but here is the question you probably don't realize you are responding to:

"Millions of people are in mixed faith marriages or are unsure about their conception of God. How would you advise them to describe God to their children over the holiday season?"

Assuming our interfaith couple is Jewish and Palestinian, they won't be celebrating your winter holiday, and probably won't be discussing your gods.

Happy Channuka Sara!

Ange: That whole caste thing is outdated and people do not follow that strictly nowadays. Hinduism is the least accepted religion in America because of its ideas and for this reason many non-Hindus and non-Indians have been unable to understand it and so they twist ideas around to make Hindus look unintelligent and barbaric. Remember, whatever the world knows about Hinduism in general has been filtered through prejudiced colonists, after all, the winner tells the story no matter how untrue it is. I come from a religious background and so I know a little of what I am talking about. The caste system was made so that society can continue, each person did what needed to be done in society (ex: business, farming, cleaning, etc.) Because of the drastic change in societal structure due to colonialism, Indians have realized that the caste system is no longer necessary and very few people follow it. Those who do are uneducated in the ways of the world. Give them time, India has only been free from oppression for 66 years. They have come a long way and will continue to change.

Merry Saturnalia--the "original" christmas--to all!

Praise be to Mirtha--the "original" jesus (by 1,000 years)! He was born on December 25, of a virgin. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and magicians. He raised the dead and healed the sick and cast out demons. He returned to heaven at the spring equinox and before doing so had a last supper with his 12 disciples (representing the 12 signs of the zodiac), eating mizd, a piece of bread marked with a cross (an almost universal symbol of the sun). Any of that sound familiar?

Don't be afraid. Critical thinking and the willingness to admit you may have been given false/misleading information your entire life are hard to deal with. Remember, truths and what's real in our world don't need to be forced on you--they are self evident to all.

Peace

In response to Bob, "there is no need for religion in this context", I would enthusiastically disagree.

I start by asking the question, "Why do we celebrate CHRISTmas?" We celebrate Christmas to celebrate the birth of Christ. Christmas Day, when looked up in the dictionary is "an annual holiday that marks the traditional birthdate of Jesus of Nazareth." That is why Christmas is celebrated year after year. And by telling your child something different would just be lying to them. Yes, I agree that we some of us will make it thorough the winter, some will not…and that we have enough food and confidence and that we MUST express our love for one another, but why do you think all this happens? It’s because of our God. He is awesome and in his Word, He tells us in I John 4:7,8 “let us love one another…for God is love.” And he is the great provider.

Let us do two things this Christmas season: Let us love each other, showing peace and love to all, and please… tell your children about the wonderful love of our Christ Jesus, born on Christmas Day…the true reason for Christmas.

I would advise the parents to tell their children that religion may be useful at some time in their lives. In the meantime, however, it probably has no use at all. So they should focus on the traditional aspects of the Winter celebration. Some of us will make it through the long cold winter, others among us will not. We have enough food to sustain us, we have confidence as a family, and now is the time for us to express our love for one another, for the wider community, and for all humanity. We all hope for a peaceful world.

There is no need for religion in this context.

Enjoy a warm and peaceful holiday.

I'm with Richard Dawkins on this: indoctrinating children in any given religion is tantamount to child abuse.

When parents' pass their superstitious nonsense on to their children, that's when the evil caused by religion is extended for yet another generation.

Hand out copies of "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris to everyone. This will wake up everyone and make for a very interesting holiday season!

I can't speak to the Mormon issues, having been raised a Mennonite, But I will say that I didn't decide to "stop growing spiritually" when I came to realize that I no longer believed in the supernatural aspects of my Church's teaching, and it certainly wasn't that I was taking an "easy way out" of anything.

My own children are exposed to their Grandparents' faith (Mennonite on my side, United Church of Canada on my wife's) as well the various faiths of their friends at school, and their parent's thoughtful humanism at home and our interactions with friends of other beliefs. I hope they will learn something from all of those connections, from Buddhists to Catholics, Bahai, Muslim, traditional Aboriginal beliefs, etc. There are lessons to be learned form them all, and my hope is that my children will take the best of those lessons and apply them to their lives in a way that will enable them to become the best human beings they can be.

I don't know if I'd go as far as Dawkins and call it "child abuse", but I do think that restricting one's children to one view of faith and spirituality does them a disservice.

Michael:

I second DV's comments that it is refreshing to get a response and some follow up.

you said: "And [children] surely will reach that time of [life] when they'll have to decide to keep growing spiritually or take a different and often easier secular path."

on the rancor thread there were dozens of posts that are connected to this very topic. i think your comment is absolutely accurate in describing the institutional position of the church.

its sad that the mormon church's message, and apparently it is your message too, is that anyone that has been mormon as a child and then chooses a different path, has, in the church's and your opinion, also chosen to halt spiritual growth and they have taken the easy way out.

mr. otterson, have you ever considered the possibility that those folks that choose a different path do so for spiritual growth, or because they feel a spiritual void or stagnation within the mormon faith?

While i believe your position accurately represents the opinion of LDS leaders and the majority of participating members, Daniel Peterson and Louis Midgley, share the opinion that mormons that fail to learn all the nuances of mormon history are the slothful ones. you can read their comments here:

http://mormonstories.org/blog/?p=130#comments

which include louis midgley's comments, "If someone through their own sloth and indifference sets themselves up for a surprise, then they have only themselves to blame, since all of this is rather well known among those even the least bit interested–that is, among those who think about such matters and read." in this case, he was referring to peepstones.

so, i wonder who has really taken the easier/slothful path, the believer that doesnt know the true mormon history, or the person who studies the subtle details of mormon history and chooses a different path?

maybe the church PR director and the church's lead apologist from BYU should do some traditional leg wrestling to see who gets to judge and label the slothful.

Brother Otterson:

I would like to thank you for responding to Equality's question. I am very happy to see that you have taken the time to provide a sincere response, and actively participate in this discussion. I think it sends a positive message to the church membership and to the general public to have church representatives respond in an informal, honest atmosphere.

Do you think it furthers the cause of teaching correct principles to our children, when the church only addresses an oversimplified view of its history? I tend to agree with historians such as Todd Compton who say that no authentic truth damages authentic faith. Do you see a time in the near future when church lesson manuals will include the challenging truths of church history? I think an expanded, more complex treatment of gospel topics would alleviate much of the current identity crisis that I felt upon learning that the fragile, oversimplified gospel I was taught is not entirely accurate. Thank you again for your participation on this forum.

Equality wrote this:

"Dawkins takes the controversial position that indoctrinating children in any religion is tantamount to child abuse. Dawkins argues that children should be exposed to a variety of religious ideas and taught to think critically so that they can choose a religion at a time when they are cognitively capable of forming judgments about religious ideas....I imagine you disagree with him."

First, thanks for your comment. You imagine correctly!

This is not a new argument, especially from people without religious experience. The simplified version of it is, "I'm going to wait until my children grow up and let them decide about religion for themselves."

Teaching religion is not just instilling a bunch of facts, like mathematical tables or even the story of the Exodus or the Crucifixion. It's not names and dates and events. Religion only works when its principles are internalized.

For example, teaching a child to pray is a process that takes years. It begins with the simple act of sharing that quiet time, perhaps at bedtime. A child of two or three can not possibly understand the significance, but they will learn to appreciate the sense of reverence from a parent. Gradually as they grow they will understand the language of prayer - the expressions of gratitude, the pleas on behalf of others. Eventually their own prayers will grow to be something deep and personal.

The same applies to acts of worship - attending church, for instance. Very young children might just want the service to be over. Older teens may already have developed a remarkable spiritual maturity.

What the religious parent in my own faith hopes for is that the child will gain enough personal experience and feel enough connection with the spiritual aspects of life that they really do have a choice when they grow older.

And they surely will reach that time of choice when they'll have to decide to keep growing spiritually or take a different and often easier secular path. No one can force true religious faith on their children. All we can do is teach correct principles, share spiritual experiences and hope and pray that they will choose to embrace that faith themselves - with all its attendant blessings. To not give a child sufficient exposure or experience to genuine religious faith is, in my opinion, to offer them no choice at all. Child abuse? I don't think so.

Let me first say that I am no expert in the church. I am currently expanding my knowledge of it, so my thoughts are coming from pure personal experience.

"Instilling this concept of God as a Father who can be reached in a very personal way through prayer may be one of the most important things that a parent can do for a child."

I think that this was the point to Brother Ottersons blog. He stated his personal beliefs as a member of the church but his point was to teach your children that God can be reached on a personal level.

From my experience, trying to teach your own religion to your children and the importance of them continuing with that religion is not only found in the LDS church. I had a friend in school whose father was Catholic. She, through the fellowship of another of our friends, wanted to be baptized into the LDS church. Her father wanted her to remain as a Catholic so badly that he bribed her with a new, expensive dress for her quinceniera (not sure if that is spelled right). She loved clothes and they were hurting financially, so she took the bribe and had her communion later that year (I think it is called communion- again, not an expert!) I also recall seeing a Dateline (or a similar T.V. news show) special about a young woman who married below her class within the Hindu religion (not exactly leaving the religion but you get the idea.) Her uncle and mother conspired with some criminals in the young womans area and had her killed and her lower class husband nearly beaten to death (the criminals thought they killed him too as were their orders from the uncle and mother.) Also, reference the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" where the guy had to be baptized into the Greek Orthodox religion to gain acceptance from her family.

The point is that it is not just within the LDS religion. If the world were perfect all parents would teach their children to find out for themselves and come to the decision on a personal basis (as Brother Otterson suggested.) I was blessed to have parents who encouraged me to find out for myself. Though they were both baptized, my father left when he was 17 and my mother, who has always held a testimony of the church, has only been semi-active in the past few years. That is not to say that their marriage has been easy despite the difference in belief. Because my father decided to abandon the morals as well as the teachings, we have all been able to excuse bad behavior such as drug use and alcohol abuse with the infamous "You did it, why can't I?" Also, because I chose the LDS path, I missed out on having my father be the one to bless and baptize me. Plus, he was unable to attend my wedding. Though not impossible, it is difficult to be a part of a mixed-faith family.

I have to say that I agree with Equality to some degree. I am LDS, was raised LDS. My family is LDS all the way back to Palmyra, NY.

As an adult I have discovered that many of the truth claims about the LDS faith are not in fact true. I don't want to go into that here, but it's a topic that's easily accessed through a Google search.

I remain an active Mormon for several reasons. First, while the truth claims of the LDS faith are, quite frankly ridiculous (Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon [or the Bible for that matter] the only true Church, etc), it's general principles and values are quite powerful and helpful in daily life. Mormonism generally makes people better.

That being said, there are some things about Mormonism I have chosen to abandon. I only go to the temple for family events (it's long and boring for me and it freaks my wife out).

I also don't attend Church every week. But I still like to read and consider myself quite spiritual.

The Church has programmed some in my family to believe that because I don't fully participate in Mormon meetings and activities (they are unaware of my disbeleif) that I am a bad person. They are sincerely worried for me. Nevertheless, I am quite satisfied spiritually and happy with my life. I feel blessed. But the Church teaches this Unity that Brother O. speaks of as a means of manipulating people like myself into compliance with LDS norms. It's really, really unethical.

I truly enjoy being LDS. I like it. It's my heritage. But there are many who come to my position after being raised LDS as a child that would leave as their adult preference, but are trapped by not wanting to harm family relationships. So they are sentenced to a life of faking it for the sake of family who really believes that a persons worth is tied to things like church attendence, tithing, temple attendance, etc.

I dont' want to leave the LDS Church, but if I did, I couldn't. It would destroy my relationship with my family members. The Church has subtlely taught them to treat those who depart as sinners and unworthy. So, to a degree, I fake it- I fake it because I love my family and I want them to be happy.

"If parents have substantially differing concepts of God, they have bigger issues to face in their children’s religious education than simply describing the significance of Christmas."

wow. thats one way to look at it, i suppose. perhaps, children growing up with differing concepts of god will have rich lives. perhaps they will be exposed to diverse people, diverse faiths, diverse customs and rituals. perhaps they will learn to compromise and respect the rituals and faith of others.

is describing the significance of christmas really a meaningful part of a religious education? cmon. is describing the significance of arbor day a meaningful part of a botany education?

in all seriousness mr. O, i think your exclaimed point is a valid one, and one that most likely is the basis for On Faith - how should folks of differing faiths interact?

your point is that faith should be common and consistent within a marriage and a family. not only do you profess that as a means of keeping harmony, but you believe its gods will and that his plan and eternity reflect that standard.

others would consider faith as something personal, regardless of ones DNA/family history/etc. and unlike the mormon faith, there are many that appreciate and love that diversity and consider it a beautiful addition to family and life, not a insurmountable hurdle to understanding the meaning of christmas.

sorta reminds me of one of my favorite christmases. i watched a catholic midnight mass, performed in a roman arena, then had an amazing generous meal, with friends. i was a mormon missionary at the time. granted, midnight is a bit past the allowed time for dining as a missionary, but it was well worth it. those memories stand in great contrast to any suggestion that different views of god can diminish christmas' meaning.

Bro. Otterson,

I have been reading a book by evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins called The God Delusion. In it, Porfessor Dawkins takes the controversial position that indoctrinating children in any religion is tantamount to child abuse. Dawkins argues that children should be exposed to a variety of religious ideas and taught to think critically so that they can choose a religion at a time when they are cognitively capable of forming judgments about religious ideas. In short, Dawkins argues that religion is an adult activity that children should be protected from. When we see children in some parts of the world (e.g., Palestine) taught from the cradle to hate others with different relgious views and we see the sort of violence that occurs when these children reach maturity, it seems Dawkins may have a point. I imagine you disagree with him. Have you read his book? Are you familiar with his arguments? What would you say in response to Professor Dawkins?