Sensitivity, Common Sense and Good Manners

Pey Lay Ale!

Again, I am impressed at how the members of faiths that have experienced current and recent persecution for their beliefs seem to have the best clue as to what went wrong in this incident.
Thank God for the pagans, muslims and latter-day saints on this board.

Now can we move on? New question, please.

yeah right ask the 100 million slain by atheistic communism since 1917 whether they felt safe or not.

Again, specific to the topic: The orthodox Catholic/Lutheran/Episcopalian Eucharist is a nice symbol of the life of one simple preacher man. Physically it is nothing more than a low calorie wafer.

Get over the hype of religious symbols and the world will be a happier and safer place!!!!

Moronis, Gabriels, magic underwear, golden/stone tablets, talking snakes, prophets i.e. forturne tellers, global floods, black stones, scapulars, rosaries, indulgences, wafer and wine, business cults fronting as religions, etc. have no place in modern society.

A good place to discuss the beliefs of other Christian denominations to help avoid making blunders when we rub shoulders, especially in public places, is an online ecumenical discussion board such as www.CTR1.org

CTR1.org has forums with "Ask a (denomination)" topics where active members of that faith can respond to questions and comments about their beliefs.

CTR1 is a new board but it could be catching...

It's most definitely a matter of manners. By taking communion in a situation where non-members aren't invited to, she basically made Tim Russert's funeral about Sally Quinn.

i agree- well put-

Michael,

Succinctly put, in your typical fashion.

Nice to see, mate. :)

John Counsel

Crossan is wrong as usual. What do you think that phrase eats and drinks judgment upon one self implies?

No matter how you cut it or look at it or analyze it, the Catholic/Lutheran/Episcopalian Eucharist/Communion is still a low calorie wafer with or without a sip of inexpensive wine/grape juice.

Symbolic? Yes indeed!!! Free to all who want to participate no matter the belief or lack thereof? Yes indeed!!!

As Professor JD Crossan says, Jesus practiced and preached an "open commensality".

Too bad many orthodox Christian groups lost sight of this!!!!

I have attended a full Catholic Mass and didn't take the Eucharist. I neither was offended in the least that I couldn't, nor did I feel unwelcome there. The Catholic Church has every right to stipulate the conditions and the meaning associated with taking the Eucharist. Not "casting your pearls before swine" often means that you prevent the pearls from being lost. It is not "my" eucharist. If the Catholic Church believes they are the only authorized church to administer the eucharist, then it is not mine to take. Rather it is for the Church to give.

Mr. Otterson,

Thank you. Protestants on the board seem, for the most part, not to understand your key point. We are not asking them to agree with us and be in union with us; only that if they will not, they at least respect our wishes when involved in our worship. It doesn't seem like it should be so hard to understand.

Brother Otterson,

Your commentary is very responsable and what i would expect from the Church of Jesus Christ.

Respect is important in all relations, be it at home, within our church or with anyone.

mark

Comments about the history of the Last Supper by some experts:

"Luedemann [Jesus, 94-97] concludes that the assymetrical forms cited in 1 Cor 11 are older than the parallel forms of the sayings over the bread and cup in Mark. He also suggests that the eschatological prospect entertained by Jesus is a later addition, and notes that it has nothing to do with the gift of bread and wine. On the other hand, Luedemann notes that the Pauline text reflects a later development than Mark with its twofold command for repetition of the supper ritual in memory of Jesus. In the end, Luedemann decides that the differences between Mark and Paul are small enough for him to use the two accounts in determining both the content of the final meal and the ways in which the supper was understood by early Christians.

At the same time, Luedemann concludes that the portrayal of Jesus celebrating such a ritual on the night before his death is not historical. He is clear that there is "no generic relationship" between any actual final meal and the Lord's Supper understood in cultic terms. He also denies the Passover character of the supper as a Markan creation. Like Meier (below), Luedemann does accept the saying (Mark 14:25) about drinking wine in the kingdom of God as authentic. He concludes: (this saying) "hardly came into being in the early community, for in it Jesus does not exercise any special function for believers at the festal meal in heaven which is imminent. Only Jesus' expectation of a the future kingdom of God stands at the centre, not Jesus as saviour, judge or intercessor."

"In Crossan's view, this is the third example of a plurally attested complex from the first stratum which, although summarizing "principles or practices, themes or emphases, of the historical Jesus, stem not from him but from the liturgical creativity of the early communities" [Historical Jesus, 360]. (The other examples were 013 Two As One and 120 The Lords Prayer.)" Professor Crossan is an On Faith Panelist.

Jesus Seminar - all the following passages were judged to be probably not or definitely not said by the historical Jesus.

Sayings of Jesus

1 Cor 11:23-25

Mark 14:25

Mark 14:22-25

Matt 26:29

Matt 26:26-29

Matt 26:28c

Luke 22:16,18

Luke 22:15-20

Did 9:4

Did 9:1-4

John 6:51-58

1 Cor 11:23-26

Mark 14:22-26

Matt 26:26-30

Luke 22:14-20

John 6:26-70

"Fredriksen [Jesus of Nazareth, 117-119] accepts the Passover character of the event and places the actions of Jesus in the context of messianic meals in his own ministry and at Qumran. When discussing the final days in Jerusalem (page 252), she assumes the basic historicity of the last supper narrative as a self-conscious final meal in which Jesus spoke of his impending death saying the words over the bread and cup." Professor Fredriksen is an On Faith panelist.

"When discussing the saying on Drinking Wine in the Kingdom of God (Mark 14:25, Professor John Meier [Marginal Jew II,302] notes that "the historicity of a final farewell meal held by Jesus with his disciples is generally accepted by scholars across the spectrum, since its existence is supported by both the criterion of multiple attestation and the criterion of coherence."

Specific to the topic: The orthodox Catholic Eucharist is a nice symbol of the life of one simple preacher man. Physically it is nothing more than a low calorie wafer. Get over the hype of religious symbols and the world will be a happier and safer place!!!!