Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Political, not Religious

This issue is based on one stupid thing, religion. Get rid of that and it all goes away.

Nevertheless, the solution to the entire Palestinian-Israeli problem is simple. A world coalition should buy a Palestine-sized hunk of land in Brazil and move every single Israeli there, no exceptions, no choice, they all go. At the same time, the coalition should buy a Palestine -sized hunk of India and move every Palestinian there, no exceptions, no choice, they all go. They can move all their religious fomites, buildings, images, whatever, but they all go. When they're gone, sow the vacated area with salt and keep it that way. Nobody gets in for any reason except for soil scientists doing the environmental monitoring of the need for more salt.

Sitting Bull,Chief and Holy Man of Sioux,had no any place to go and settle.
But,Arabs in the Promised Land has chance to live at least in 20 arabic countries.

There was not any Sioux Republic where Sitting Bull can settle,but arabs in Israel can live in Arab Republics.

If the conflict is not religious why are Palestinians "martyring" themselves?

Dear Pamela K. Taylor,
You probably don't know much about history of Islam. You should check history of India, Pakistan, Afganistan since 1500Bc till now. Check whatever is known history since then. This will at least tell you how Islam motivates muslims and how it affects their psychology. To give you a summary, Islam motivates muslim for a "muslim" vs "kafir" or non-muslim ideology. From Temur-lang to AurangZeb most muslim invaders in India had no shame in converting people to their religion or killing whole villages. Most of those rulers who thought about themselves as Islam's "Ghazis" recorded their killings and conversions in their own biographis or histories. Aurangjeb not only converted and killed people in Kashmir, he also killed Sikh Gurus and their children.

You can also read how a Hindu/Budhdhist Afganistan/Pakistan/Sindh/Kashmir got converted into Islam. History of India (India+Pakistan+Afganistan as all of it was AryaVrata or India of Hindus) is eye opener for anyone who wants to know what Islam can do to people.

The best of rulers of Islam in the time of Mughal, thanks probably to their Rajput mothers and wives, were actually just enjoying wealth generated by farmers shamelessly and living luxurious lives. People do not know but the proportion of India wealth in overall world GDP kept on decreasing since ever, but because it was so much at some time, it was still largest till 1700 or so.

In any case we Indians know more about Islam than even Arabs, because we have seen all variety of Islam. India actually created a soft side of Islam called Sufism. Arab world learned a lot from India, but their return gift was political Islam, where a muslim is muslim first and human second and can think only about Islam in general and less for humans and degenartion of Indian society.

Ms. Taylor quotes the following sentence from a Hamas spokesman;

“Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony.”

Hogwash! The first recorded ethnic cleansing was carried out by the founder of your religion against the Jews and Christians of Arabia. The massacre of the Jews of Khaibar is being celebrated till this day by many fanatics in Muslim societies.

Later Ms. Taylor pontificates thus:
“As a Muslim, my faith teaches me to stand up for justice.”

Is colonizing and subjugating the people of North Africa and the Middle East by the nomad purveyors of your religion and enslaving the indigenous population is Justice in your understanding?
To get a glimpse of the treatment of those who ended under the rule of the imperialist marauders from Arabia peruse the model for the treatment of the People of the Book, meaning Christians and Jews, set down by the founder of your religion and his lieutenants.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

Here we have the usual thing. Moderates trying to provide cover for the extremism being caused by their religion. Being caused by people who simply take literally what they read. I have no doubt that there are those who truly believe that Islam is peace, or that it teaches moderation and justice, and who take that away from their religion. The trouble is that these aren't the folks marching in the streets. These aren't the folks in charge of an increasingly nuclear Iran. These aren't the folks training armies of death, suicide bombing and genocide. Why are we stuck in the dark ages, fighting wars that are centuries old? I have one question for the 3 Abrahamic religions. CAN THE REST OF US HAVE OUR PLANET BACK PLEASE?

Dear Pamela K.Taylor,

Israel;Population nearly 5 million Jews
Arabs;Population almost 200 million.
Please,a little Justice.

Your Article,

How can you set any parallesism between European-Native American/Red Indians(they had come to America from Asia) and Israeli-Arab conflict ?

Lets have a look;
1-*We(Americans) sit in the same position vis a vis the original owners of our lands as Israel does vis a vis the Palestinians(Arabs living in the Promised Land)*
-When Europeans came to America ? After Columbos(1492),but since when Jewish people living in Promised Land ?
Since 3300 years.If you go back to Abraham since 3800 years
-Who is the original owners of Promised Land ?
Is there any 3000 year-old European Temple in USA ? But,Jewish People has 3000 year-old Temple in Promised Land.Please,tell me the oldest church or oldest mosque in Promised Land.
2-*We expelled Native Americans/Red Indians(who came from Asia) and pushed them into reservation*
-There are,at least,20 Arabic countries from Gulf to Atlantic Ocean as large as USA.Were there Apachi Republics in US ? or Red Indian countries where they can go and settle,but Arabs in Israel have chance to settle in 20 Arabic countries.
For example,You.Yes,you was born in Virginia but living in Indiana.What is the distance ? At least,400 miles.
What is distance between Israel and Jordan.Only 100 miles,to Egypt or Syria 200 miles.As you know very well,many Americans living far from where they born in US.
3-*As a Muslim,my faith teaches me to stand up for Justice*
Dear Pamela K.Taylor,
I have written many times,let me write one more time.
*Justice* in Submission means Shariah,nothing else.
*Justice* in Submission means Desert Rules,nothing else.
*Justice* in *Two equals one* has no any correlation with Present Justice which based on Human Rights and Contemporary Values.

It is a commonly accepted myth that Israel has occupied Palestine in 1967. But, was there a Palestine in 1967? The West Bank was part of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Gaza strip was part of Egypt. These two Arab countries have occupied territory in the British administered Mandate of Palestine and have annexed these territories. Was there anything preventing the Arabs from establishing a Palestinian state prior to 1967 and negotiate borders with Israel?
No. so let's stop propagating this myth.

One of the main problems is how obnoxious the Palestinian refugees are. When Egypt owned Gaza, they denied citizenship to the Palestianians and refused to let them even leave the area or settle anywhere else in Egypt. Kuwait and the Gulf States threw our 400,000 Palestinian refugess living there because they turned on their hosts and supported Saddam's invasion.

The Iraq gvernment doesn't want them, and many refugees are trapped on the border with Syria because Syria doesn't like them, either. Everywhere the refugees have gone, no one wants to bring them into their society.

Lebanon doesn't like the refugees, and suffered having a civil war during the 1970s among the refugees before they even had a state.

Speaking of the 1970s, Carter offered to have many of the refugee camp families brought to the US and able to earn citizenship- Arafat turned it down because he would lose control of them.

So, how can we etablish justice for people so dispised, so obnoxious, so hate filled, that even their ethnic and family nations won't accept them?

Oh, funny that should be mentioned. The Jewish refugees from Arab countries and their disposseion of property are never mentioned. What about justice for them?

The author relies entirely on the erroneus assertion that the entire area was "Arab land" colonized by European Jews. Not so. To the contrary, Jews had existed continuously on that land for millenia. When European Jews did emigrate to Palestine, they bought land for themselves. When the area flourished, Arabs arrived in greater numbers from Egypt and present-day Lebanon and Jordan to take part in the bounty. It is many of these so-called "Palestinians" that the author claims have been dispossessed.

The author also seems unaware that Palestine was much larger than present day Israel. Most of this land was used to create a Palestinian state that we today call Jordan. (Conveniently omitted is any mention by the author of the millions of dispossessed Jews who lost their homes and possessions when they were removed from present day Jordan and other Arab countries). A small portion of original Palestine was used to create the State of Israel. Even after the creation of Israel, neither Jordan nor Egypt saw fit to create any Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza strip.

In part the author is correct. The Palestinian situation is political in that Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the Arab nations really care little about the Palestinians. Instead, they exploit the situation for their own political means. Otherwise, the author is dead wrong.

Dear Pamela,
I am afraid the Hamas you know is not the real Hamas.
To understand what the real Hamas wants, we need to read their charter. Here are a few quotes from this fascinating document:

Preamble:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."

Article Six:
The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine,

Article Seven:

"...The Islamic Resistance Movement is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders. It goes back to 1939, to the emergence of the martyr Izz al-Din al Kissam and his brethren the fighters, members of Moslem Brotherhood.:

. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Article Eight:
Allah is its target; the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up.

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.

Article Twelve:
Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed.

Article Thirteen:
Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.

Article Fifteen:
It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis.

The Palestinians left Israel in 1947 at the behest of the Arab nations going to war to _destroy_ Israel. Yes, they fully expected to return triumphant and TAKE OVER the farms and houses owned by Jews. But the Arab nations got schooled and completely embarrassed by little Israel (with US-provided firepower) in mere days, and the Palestinians, instead of being offered asylum by these countries who promised them the plunder of Israel, were turned away and made landless refugees. Explain where Israelis have any reason or ethical obligation to let their enemies back in?

War is terrible, and the poor always suffer the most. It's too bad the Palestinians don't realize they are being treated like so many expendable pawns by the rich and powerful Arab leaders. You'd think the terribly one-sided casualty rate they are suffering would be some clue, but they are so convinced by their leaders that they are individually worthless and matter only by spilling blood for the cause, that this war will continue.

the conflict is totally religious

Intolerant, non-compromising Muslims against intolerant, non-compromising Jews and their Christian Crusader allies.

Abraham was the true Satan.

Agathodemon,

Excellent post. Thanks!

Farnaz

And of course the third worse book ever written is the NT.(even though the topic only concerns Judaism and Islam)

Some reasons why for those eyes that have not seen:

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/Works_Cited

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

CCNL -
What about the NT - without the OT the NT is without foundation and Jesus is the Messiah of nothing for no one. And most of the justifications for Christian intolerance stems from the OT. You have a real burn on about abortion, but usually the "thou shall not kill" is quoted as justification for an anti-abortion stance. I would be happy to ash can all three of the books of the Desert Dogmas [from Pat Condell].

I think the comparison with South Africa is false. The black South Africans were not suicide bombing the whites, and the whites have not been dispossessed. I think that only someone blind to the depth of Palestinian hatred for Israel could think that the Israelis could ever let the Palestinians return. It would be a blood bath - for both sides. It is easy for someone to completely forget the very larges number of Jews living in North Africa and the Middle East whose possessions and homes were seized when they were thrown out of lands they had been native to for hundreds and even thousands of years. I also think it typically disingenuous to believe as the author does that there is any separation of religion and politics in Islam - at least as practiced in the Middle East. It is the religious leaders who call the shots. It is the Imams who whip their congregations into murderous rages. Islam needs to grow up and leave the 9th Century and join the rest of the world. They are not special.

Jews follow the second worst book ever written, i.e. the mostly mythical OT and related mumbo jumbo extensions. Muslims follow the worst book ever written, i.e. the koran whose foundations are based on the hallucinations of one long-dead, womanizing, and warmongering Arab.

Declare both the OT and the koran as null and void and Hamas and the Israelis will have no theological and moral ground to stand on. Actually, they have none now and the leaders of the rest of the world should point this out and at least these hollow excuses for bloodshed in the name of god will finally end.