Obamas at Christmas: Balancing public and personal

We all find things where we want to see it. We rationalize away things we don't want to see. That is of course the foundation of superstition.

Few want to apply objective testing to superstitious beliefs. Few want to confront that they may have joined the Nazis and may be contributing to harm.

How many rich people realize that their economic patterns contribute to poverty and global warming/ pollution (all the obese people of America for example).

I met and African American Male lawyer whose father had converted to islam because of christian history. But even this lawyer was unable to see the same history islam. Muslims are happy to point out the fallacies of christian idolatry, and historical proof of non-peace as signs of christianity's failing as a religion. But they are unable to use that same reason against their own beliefs.

It lies, I believe, in the internal psychologically formed, sociologically supported, and ideologically confirmed fear of the other. We can not change the psychology (I believe this is universal - with a common statistical spread). The way to affect the sociology is to allow human beings freedom of movement and individual conscience - secular education. The way to affect the ideology is to challenge it and recognize it wherever we see it.

hariaum

ABHAB:

'Since according to Islamic law children adopt their father's religion, many wives would at least outwardly adopt the trappings of that religion so as not be different than their children. Notwithstanding many also do not convert.'

Interesting....just like marrying into Catholicism. The children must be raised Catholic. Although this may not pertain to children adopted through marriage - will have to check out Canon law in that regard.

Persiflage

AHAB - thanks, that makes sense re. women, marriage, and conversion to Islam. I supose more interesting is the quesion of how some women actually become public spokespersons for Islam. This of course could not happen in Muslim nations.

I find this intriguing in the same way as the obverse mystery of why the most vocal anti-abortion foes (at least on these threads) seem to be men.

regards, Persiflage

Persiflag asks:
"I only have one question: What do American women find so appealing about Islam that
they would actually convert?”
The appeal is not Islam but a husband who happens to be Muslim.
If you survey the American women who converted you will find that the great majority, if not all, are married to Muslim men. Secondly you will find that the men they married are better educated and of higher social and educational status than they and their families.
Since according to Islamic law children adopt their father's religion, many wives would at least outwardly adopt the trappings of that religion so as not be different than their children. Notwithstanding many also do not convert.

I only have one question: What do American women find so appealing about Islam that they would actually convert?

Women are subservient to men throughout the Muslim world - as they are in the world of Christian fundamentalism. But back to Islam in the USA - how can this religion be attracting the greatest number of new converts, and to a completely foreign religious faith??

This to me is absolutely strange - a true social anomaly on a fairly large scale. Personaly speaking, I can't consider this to be even remotely a phenomenon based on rationality and logic - in the slightest degree. This has to be exclusviely a development based on emotional needs.

At least PT is saying the right things to us. I am sure, as I have no reason to believe she is not an honest person, she is just as vocal in saying these things when she goes on Haj, defends the rights of women in islamic states to dress however they want, defends the rights of Hindus and animists to free religion in Sudan and Ethiopia...etc.

Of course if she doesn't do those things, she does need to look carefully as aligning what she says and what she believes.

hariaum

CellBioProf -- I was trying to think of some occasion, any occasion which could represent the President's respect and honoring of atheists and non-religious folk. Darwin's birthday was the best I could come up with on the spot, although obviously a lot of religious folk honor Darwin as well, and Darwin himself was religious. Nonetheless, I have quite a few atheist friends who mark the day (probably more as an excuse to get together and have fun with some other geeks than anything else). Any suggestions on how Obama could salute secular humanists?

If this were a Muslim majority nation, would nonmuslims have equal rights?
NO.
The goal of muslims, including "moderates" like Pamela or Eboo is the same as the radicals, only with different methods.

They are using the magnanimity of secular and respectful people like Americans to advance their destructive agenda.

Do not be naive.
DEMAND MUTUAL RESPECT IN DEED, NOT JUST IN WORD, ESPECIALLY FROM "MODERATES" LIKE PAMELA TAYLOR AND EBOO PATEL.

These "moderates" are the apologists that provide cover for the "extremists" like Major Hussein in Texas or the Washington 5 arrested today or David Headly the American-Pakistani islamic terrorist from Chicago.

Demand that Pamela Taylor join the modern world and simply say: All religions and peoples are equal; Islam and Muslims are equal not superior.

Muslims cannot say this. This is the heart of the problem.

I agree with PT. I don't think this is a christian nation. But I do think the Obamas are christian and they should be allowed to impart their religion to their children who remain non-partisan.

hariaum

Glad to see that Pamela is still wearing her ultra-chaste head-covering: You can't be too careful in our lubricious secular culture!

While religious freedom is at the heart of America, we are also at heart a Christian nation. It seems the author is suggesting that we should "mute" our religious traditions out of sensitivity to all others.

I wish to thank you for your article, as it may be the most rational discussion of this topic I have ever read... but I am wondering about your last sentence (as a scientist who did recognize Darwin's birthday).