Blasphemy should be protected speech

I do not regard any study of religion to be scholarly. That is simply a joke. Religious scholars are pretentious quacks. A person can be a religious expert or knowledgable about religion, but calling oneself a relgious scholar is bogus; a religious scholar is a fraud; a snake oil salesman.

If you are studying religion, you are studying what other men have said about what God thinks, wants, and feels. This is an aburd line of study to pursue.

Moreover, you have an "Islamic" attitude that demands respect for religious belief, simply because it is religious. Religious people like you always feel entitled to special privilige, but you are not. Why should the fact of your religious belief give you any special privilege over anyone else at all? Why should you come first in line ahead of others because of your religion? Equality of all men and women is not measured by any religous test. Infidel is an absurd term, like heritic, apostate, and blasphemer.

How dare you suppose that your piety makes you better or superior to a person whom you judge to be impious. If you feel secure and certain in your personal religious beliefs, then that is fine, but please do not demand respect, when you would not extend it to others, because that attitude, is never going to get you anywhere.

Irshad Manji is Moslem. Your critique of her is that she is not Moslem enough. Your critique of me is that I am not Moslem and therefore I do not know what I am talking about.

That is the same tired old defense that we hear all the time from the Catholic Church. Alienated Catholics who hate the church are not Catholic enough, and I a Protestant, do not know what I am talking about.

That argument is the last refuge of a religionist who has no other argument to make.

Irshad Manji is Moslem, just not the kind that you approve of. And I, a non-Moslem know of Islam, only what I hear and see deomatrated to me by Molsems like you. Why would you expect me to make an intenseive study of YOUR religion? Why should I? Why? Because you think if I did, then I would see the perfect truth of your religion and convert? Tell it to all the other religions who say the EXACT same thing.

Why don't you come out of your Islamic cocoon, and look around? There is plenty more to the world than simply Islam. There are far more worthy scholarly pursuits than merely pouring over other people's thoughts on what God thinks.

Your comments on these blogs are hysterical and rude; you have zero credibility in judging others.

Daniel,

Im afraid falsehoods wont take you too far. My posts are here for everyone to see. Not once have I expressed hatred for any Christian or Jews or even Hindus for that matter. Neither have I ever called any belief system evil or nihilist. On the other hand your posts, where you cracked third degree jokes on muslims in Pakistan dieing in suicide bombings, are also there for everyone to see. In a way, even our fundamentalist have more class than you as in they never laugh at dead people.

Im not surprised you find Irshad Manji adorable. She says everything Islam haters love to hear. I've had the misfortune of reading her book "Trouble with Islam" (I didnt pay for it, someone gave it to me). She mocks Prophet Muhammad, Quran, Islam and Muslims in the worst possible sneering tone. The book is filled with factual errors and misinterpretations. Her knowledge of Islam is obviously scanty, distorted and biased. She and others like her came to the fore after 9/11 when there was a huge interest in knowing about Islam amongst the masses in US. Their books venting vitriol on muslims sold like hot cakes. But once these so called reformers eventually came face to face with Scholars (they hardly ever dared to do that) all their half cooked theories and lies were bared by them. There is a dialogue between Tareq Ramadan and Irshad on youtube where she's been literally floored. As a result no one bothers to give these "reformers" any credence anymore because they recognize them for what they are. Like a bad penny they will turnup on Fox or hate radios whenever there is a muslim country to be attacked or a suicide bombing happens. There are many more voices of reason amongst muslims. People like Tareq Ramadan are the ones who have invested their lives on the subject and hence can speak with authority. I propose you listen to him to see what a scholarly work is.

Blasphemy, apostasy, and heresy are Medeival concepts, which are absured in the modern world. Who holds onto these antiquated concepts? Ridiculous old men who seek to maintain the political power inherent in their preistly privileges. These men are of the Prtestant Christian conservative movement, the Catholic Church, and Islam.

The biggest example of this today? Iran, with its rag-tag, ragamuffin immams who seek to build an atomic bomb on the one hand, while also supressing the internet and telecommunications technology on the other hand.

The new Islamic Reformation is most likely to appear in Iran first, where the ruling priest class has a wolf by the ears; they cannot willingly ever let go, but how long can they hold on?

Not long, I predict.

Yasser

Irshad Manji is an excellent, excellent person. If you consider her an enemy, then that says alot about you.

You are too wrapped up in your own testosterone. The admission of feminine thought (from the minds of real woman, and not from men saying what women should think) would do alot to reform and moderate Islam.

For if Islam does not moderate and reform, this testoserone chip-on-the-shoulder attitude of Moslem men will mean the eventual and complete destruction of Islam.

No I am not Jewish. So you are not going to be able to get me on your "blame the Jews for everything" belief system.

I am Methodist. Methodists are post-Medeival.

I do not know why you hate Conservative Christians so much; you sound just like one to me.

DanielintheLionsDen wrote,

**Now, at least, we know that non-American Moslems hold American Moslems in complete contempt and will never again brag about Islam as the fastest growing religion in the United States.

I am glad we have all finally figured that out.**

Nice try Danny! But you can have your Hirsi Ali's, Irshad Manji's, Nonie Darweesh and all other creations of Daniel Pipes and Neocons. These Gold Diggers have nothing to do with the spread of Islam in the US. Even though I do not live in US I know that American Muslims recognize this muslimwakeup.com gang for what it is and has totally rejected them. They have been reduced to spewing hate at Fox News and Talk Show Radios (some get on to On Faith!~!).

Ive heard you mock Christianity and Islam several times in your posts and you also said that you believe in God. Im assuming you could be Jewish. Is that true? What faith denomination do you belong to if you do not consider yourself Agnostic. I think its only fair that I know that~!

Now, at least, we know that non-American Moslems hold American Moslems in complete contempt and will never again brag about Islam as the fastest growing religion in the United States.

I am glad we have all finally figured that out.

Secularism is merely a manifestation of modern thought that is not based in Medeival religious theology.

To be born in the 20th century and to live in the 21st century is to live in a secular world. This is no theology to it; it is merely an outlook on life and the world; it cannot be erradiated not gotten rid of; it simply is a part of what makes the modern world modern.

It is incredible to me that any educated person can be angry and bitter at "secularism;" there simply is no there there. This is merely a frustation that the religiously orthodox sense, as their once dominating world views become gradually less and less relevant.

It is incredible to me that there can be any modern and worldly person who still sees man as dominating and superior to woman, when there is now, in the modern world, absolutely no credence to such a backward and archaic views.

There will never be an international anti-blasphemy protocol. Such an effort will either put an end once and for all to the current international system, or it will place Islam in the position of "outcast" which is the more likely outcome.

An international law to protect a Medeival relious view, that even Islamic people with more than a little education don't believe?

I don't think so.

Wasn't Zionism the movement of the Jews to return to Palestine? Weren't its goals fulfulled over 60 years ago? Isn't it a little late, to be still, ranting about Zionism?

I think most Americans do not even know what Zionism is, since it is mainly something old and forgotten, by most people, at least, from the 19th century.

Even if the the antiquated thinking of the Holy Land cannot, the rest of the world has moved on.

You know, Pamela,

The sexist, racist yasseryousufi also supports the Protocols. In cut and paste, he neglected to mention that to which I was responding.

Of course, he's a Talib (Taliban), I understand, surely, not representative of all Muslims. If he were, we would not see female Muslim chaplains across the country, for example.
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"You've been studying your "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" again, haven't you?"

I dont need to read it. I only have to look around me.

Posted by: yasseryousufi | September 10, 2009 4:43 PM

EINHVERFR:
Reading these comments makes me sad.

The author here correctly points out where the Constitutional line is drawn in this country (direct, imminent harm, such as speech intended and likely to cause imminent lawless action) and defends it, and both Muslims and Jews rush to condemn. It is a good day to be a Norse Neopagan.
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You are mistaken, at least, so far as I can see. No Jews, none at all, support the notion of "blasphemy" legislation.

As for Muslims, only one, who, at any rate professes to be Muslim, does. And that would be the Talib, yasseryousufi, whose antisemitic, anti-Christian, anti-Hindu, sexist screeds have rendered him a nonentity on this blog.

I am a Jew, and was, in fact, the first person to blog on the insane legislation which has been visited upon the nation of Ireland.

"Blasphemy" laws are no joke. In Pakistan, homeland of the Talib, yasseryousufi, they have mainly been used to persecute minorities, viz, Christians. I have posted on this and would be glad to do so again.

Those found guilty of blasphemy in Pakistan may be sentenced to death. Some have been.

I'm not suggesting that this will occur in Ireland. However, it is ironic that while many progressive Pakistanis are trying to revisit the medieval blasphemy laws in their country, some Irish legislators succeed in turning back the clock.

Reading these comments makes me sad.

The author here correctly points out where the Constitutional line is drawn in this country (direct, imminent harm, such as speech intended and likely to cause imminent lawless action) and defends it, and both Muslims and Jews rush to condemn. It is a good day to be a Norse Neopagan. We may have our kooks, but today they seem pretty tame by comparison.

But I think there are a couple of important, deeper points that must come out of this.

The first is that we live in an age where people of all ideologies are internationalists, and want to remake the world according to their ideals. This is true not only of Muslims and Christians, but also of those seeking to spread various forms of government, remaking societies in the image of their own.

This approach is just plain wrong, and it denies people what is perhaps the most important human right, the right of self-determination as a people and a nation. Hence we have a clash of internationalists who want to portray it as a clash of cultures. We must all back away from this and resist this urge as best we can.

In the United States, blasphemy cannot be made illegal as it is clearly protected speech. Muslims outside the US have no right to insist we pass blasphemy laws. Inside the US, the only remedy is the Constitutional Amendment process. No treaty should be forced down our throats purporting to interfere with the way our government governs us.

At the same time, I think that many in the United States need to step back for a moment and stop insisting that our values are the only right ones. Other cultures have an inherent right to experiment and find their own way. We may not want to be like them and they may not like to be like us, and that should be just fine.

So I guess this is where I disagree with Pamela Taylor in a limited way. The Ireland law, as wrongheaded as it is in my humble opinion, is a matter between the Irish people and the Irish government. It makes a mistake (again in my humble opinion) that they have a right to make. Calls for international protections for religious groups against ridicule is more wrong-headed because, in addition to free speech issues, it is an attempt by one set of cultures to impose their values on everyone else.

Its obvious to anyone who's read FarnazMansouri's post that she's a moron, full of herself, who poses as Secularist but is infact a zionist propagandist and an AIPAC mouthpiece. Her real agenda is to go to muslim countries in the garb of a UN employee and dig out rumors and false information which she can then present as facts. I used to ignore her posts and only decided to take her on after she spewed her usual obscenity at Prophet Muhammad in one of her posts addressed to me. This is her exact quote

"yasseryousufi:

Gotcha. However, what I posted are facts. The Protocols is as factual as MohammeDickFace. Have you seen it? Or do you see it just by looking around?
I suspect you do.
Posted by: Farnaz1Mansouri1 | September 10, 2009 6:00 PM
Report Offensive Comment
"

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2009/09/israel_carters_blind_spot.html

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No wonder this Islam hater to the core wants this kind of hate speech legalized. She's found an ally in her fellow zionist plant Pamela Taylor who failed previously with her muslimwakeup.com project. Having said that, we muslim will continue to respect the prophets and holy men of Christians and Jews. This is what our Prophet taught us. We will continue to resist these laws in our countries even if you make it legal to burn the Holy Quran and denigrate Holy men of Islam~!

Well, Pamela. Here you have it. Yasseryousufi, hysterical, Islamist, Pashtunette meowing on your thread.

AT this point, however, the little poodle has revealed itself for what it is, all the way from Karachi. A sexist Pashtunette. Short, no doubt. I wonder if we should tell it about the number of female Muslim chaplains in the US. When will little boys learn, one wonders. Be aware, though, arrogant poodles occur amongst all peoples.
You have your yassers, we have ours.
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And the Yemeni Jews, Pamela? We haven't forgotten your silence on other persons, et., Gavriel and Rivka. Remember?

If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am for myself alone, what am I?

--Hillel

Pamela Taylor is from the same breed of women like Amina Wadud, Irshad Manji, Ayyan Hirsi Ali, Asra Nomani who were raised by the Neocons during Bush era to sow seeds of discord amongst muslims. Ofcourse they were all dismissed by overwhelming majority of muslims including american muslims so now they've planted Pamela Taylor to speak as muslim at On Faith. Its a bit naughty of WaPo to give her picture with that chador on her head as if to imply she's a muslim. Just wanted my muslim friends on this blog to know a bit of her background.

http://armiesofliberation.com/archives/2009/12/18/victims-of-us-missile-strikes-in-yemen/

Its nice to see the Zionist windbag Farnaz Mansouri, who has been soundly beaten at every debate and all her lies regarding Pakistan and Islam have been bared by me reduced to empty shrieks.

You talk of Humanity FarnazMansouri........this is probably the zillionth time you speak of Yemeni Jews. I was waiting to see if you would also speak of the 60 innocent Yemeni's who died in the Cruise Missile attack in a market place last week (including America's worst enemy, "28 children~!"). Ofcourse you wouldn't even know about this. Your world revolves around zionism and everything bad that goes around the Islamic world (which we muslims also condemn). So ya.....go on spreading hate. You aint good at nothing else.

Speaking about injustice, in addition to the three hundred fifty-five Yemeni Jews, the murdered thirty-one-year-old rabbi, his widow and children, we're also waiting to hear from Pamila about the atrocities against Christians in Egypt, yesterday, against Christians in Pakistan for the past two weeks.

You see, Pamela, if you are for yourself alone you lose humanity:

If I am not for myself, who will be for me?
If I am for myself alone, what am I?

--Hillel

AS LONG AS PEOPLE LIKE THIS BLOG HERE, THERE IS NO REASON FOR ANYONE TO BOTHER QUESTIONING ISLAM. THE RACIST YASSERYOUSUFI, WHO HATES NOT ONLY JEWS BUT CHRISTIANS, and ALL WOMEN, AS HE'S REPEATEDLY DEMONSTRATED, SPEAKS VOLUMES.
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Islam would be better served by literate, sane, honest persons, who spoke out against injustice regardless of the target.

Speaking of which, I'm still waiting for Taylor's comments on the Yemeni Jews.
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yasseryoufufi speaks:

"Dear Pamela Taylor!

Kindly spare us from your zionist agenda of westernizing islam. We, the average moderate muslims do not want women like you to be our Imams and yes we aren't OK with allowing you to speak crap about our Prophet."

Justtillthen pontificates to me thus:

“ I doubt that you have been in a mosque during services, much less listened to what is being preached. In your imagination ALL they must say is "KILL KILL KILL, the INFIDEL!!!"

Below is some of what was preached in one mosque called Undercover Mosque..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercover_Mosque

No words of anger at ever spoken at a any mosque.
No one has ever stated in a mosque that violence has a role in islam (even when lambs are beheaded for celebration).
No one has ever been recruited for violence at any mosque.
No money has ever been collected at any mosque for organizations involved in violence.
Only peace is on the agenda at a mosque.
All the rest is western propaganda against the greatest and best religion by members of inferior religions and secularists.

Dear Momtotsan,

A lot of Imams in US may focus on being good human beings.Islam/Submission teachs and commands to be True Muslim,not good human being.
A lot of Imams in US may sermon(at this monent.What will they say ten years later) on Kindness to Others,Modesty and other Virtues.
Kindness.What a Nice Word.
Does Islam know what Kindness is.Is there Kindness in Afghanistan,Saudia,Pakistan,Egypt etc.
Modesty.
The tallest building(bedouin's ostentation) and other parts of desert,people starving.
Islam is a Reality.Submission is Islamic Republic Iran and Saudia,not what certain Imams say(at this moment,nobody can know what they say ten years later) or those written in your Facebook site.

Happy New Year.

Abhab,

I second the post to you from momtotsan. It is clear to any thinking mind the degree that you are in the dark, (and inTO media brainwashing), and disconnected to a wide angle view of Islam by reading your post.

"If this is implemented none of the mosques imams I am aware of would have a thing to say in their so-called Friday "sermons"."

I doubt that you have been in a mosque during services, much less listened to what is being preached. In your imagination ALL they must say is "KILL KILL KILL, the INFIDEL!!!"

Shake off your delusion, man, and listen to the world with new ears. Conditioning KILLS!

Abhab, I invite you to attend juma (Friday congregational prayer) at any mosque in the US, you will be hard pressed to find even one imam advocating going out and killing people. I certainly know of none. Rather I hear a lot of imams focusing on being good human beings and solid citizens, prayer and reading Qur'an, charity, kindness to others, modesty, and other virtues.

Dear Pamela Taylor!

Kindly spare us from your zionist agenda of westernizing islam. We, the average moderate muslims do not want women like you to be our Imams and yes we aren't OK with allowing you to speak crap about our Prophet. What is so liberating about ridiculing Prophets and other holy men and burning religous books? A line can be easily drawn between legitimate criticization of a religion and its followers and a deliberate attempt to spread hatred of a religion through false accusations. You have used the familiar tactic of propaganda to take one extreme side of the argument to justifuy the other extreme side. No one would wanna ban criticism of the acts commited by followers of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism but if in the garb of these things you want the go ahead to ridicule Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Rama, Buddha make cartoons of them in objectionable states then people who hold them dear will react. Secularuists like you cannot dictate your way of living to us and expect us to follow you blindly. Who made you secularists our boss anyway?

As a student in a graduate program in religious studies I would hate to see any law like this passed in the United States.

Evangelical Christians could start having Old and New Testament scholars fined for critically studying the Bible.

Orthodox Jews could have feminist scholars fined for exposing the structural sexism of their version of Judaism.

Islamic fundamentalists could have scholars criminally prosecuted for any move to study Islamic texts and traditions in a critical way (i.e. the way the texts and practices of Judaism and Christianity have been studied).

And the Buddhists could have Brit Hume prosecuted, but they wouldn't.

This law could effectively end the critical study of religion at the academic level - a terrible, terrible idea.

Ms. Taylor asserts:
“The only time speech should be disallowed is when it directly endangers people -- like the proverbial crying "Fire!" in a crowded theater, or hate speech which spills into directly encouraging people to go out and harm the target of hatred.”

If this is implemented none of the mosques imams I am aware of would have a thing to say in their so-called Friday "sermons".

Banning blasphemy or insulting religions not one's own could have beneficial effects. We could then prosecute and put in prison all those imams across the western world who poison the minds of young Muslims every Friday in the mosques. Putting imams in prison is the most effective way to protect western values and societies.