Islam, sex and moderation

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, if you INSIST on attack the prophet, at least get your information right.

Yes, Aisha was married to the prophet at the age of 9. BUT THEY DID NOT CONSUMMATE the marriage until she reached puberty, sometime at around the age of 13-14 according to most texts. This is VERY much the same situation as my own grandmother's, who married my grandfather at the age of 9, but did not consummate until much later. And if you'd like to call my grandfather a pedophile, than please send me your address and Ill tell you what I think of you in person,, because he was the most dedicated, loyal husband Ive ever seen and deserves to be remembered with honor.

As for Aisha, you kuffar love to claim she was abused. Hmm, let's see, she got to marry one of the most respected and beloved men who ever walked earth, the prophet never once raised his voice or hand to her (even when she was wrongly accused of adultery, the prophet offered her forgiveness if she confessed), and even as a teenage girl she was given the right to advise the prophet on financial matters (much to the discomfort of some of the prophets male followers). Furthermore, he commanded his followers to "learn part of their religion" from Aisha when he died. And Aisha was the COMMANDER of the Sunni Army after Muhammad Died. So you westerners -- how many women lead your armies. Hmmm, thats what I thought, you got Joan of Arc and thats about it. So progressive, please lecture me more. Although I DO agree that Muslim culture has largely gone backwards from its surprisingly progressive roots. We are 1400 years removed from the prophet, of course we will drift more and more as time passes, from what the prophet intended. Thats why the mahdi and then Jesus have to come back, to set us straight again. As Muhammad predicted, "there will come a day when the worst evil shall flow from the mosques, and the worst amongst you will claim Allah's name."

The prophet was actually in a subservient position to his first wife, Khadija, a wealthier woman who he WORKED for and took orders from. So to review, the prophet married a woman who was in leadership role, and later put his last wife Aisha into a leadership role.

As far as ignoring Muhammad/Quranic advice -- consider this. Well, the truth is, the only way to be 100% positive that you will not contract and STD and still be sexually active is to follow Quranic guidelines. If you and your wife are abstinent until marriage, and neither cheat, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get an STD. Score one for Muhammed, you kuffar can rely on your imperfect condoms. If you dont thing AIDs is a clear warning to mankind, you are an idiot.

The fact that Muslims believe that their prophet is the ideal man and husband condemns his and their “religion” to a shameful cult. What is more wicked and shameful than raping a 9 years old child and call that a marriage? Or giving its followers a license to keep four so-called wives at one time in addition to unlimited number of concubines. Or giving the man a free hand in disposing of his wives for any or no reason? That is besides the other different types of Sharia compliant dalliance arrangements called marriages such as urfi, misiyar, friend etc. whose duration can be from an hour to a month and are no more than Sharia legalized prostitution.

This is nothing but an Islam apologist trying to make this "religion" more acceptable to westerners. Well it is not, not to westerners and not to any human being that respects him/herself. It may be true that some Muslims do behave somehow to a dignified level, but the majority still hold on to medieval behavior and beliefs. Religions are to be bound to local civic laws and should not infringe into other areas of legislation. Sex is natural at any age, and sex-ed. should be mandatory for 1st graders all the way to 12th. Only this way will we avoid unwanted pregnancies as well as abortions.Being religious should be a choice and not a burden placed on the population in order to enslave its members.

the only people obsessed with sex are porn stars and the devout. For the rest of us its fun and natural.

Being sexually active does NOT make you a bad person, somehow not good in God's eyes. This kind of guilt trip by religion imposed on us is not only stupid, it's immoral in itself.

The bottom line is sexuality has to be handled responsibly. With freedom comes responsibility. If, for example, sexual activity among the unmarried leads to pregnancy, the partners have to take joint responsibility for the child. Abortion is a way of trying to escape responsibility and impose pain and suffering upon an unborn life. We must take care not to do that. The bottom line is don't hurt each other, don't be selfish. There is no harm in enjoying sex itself.

I find that American kids are, on the whole, very nice. They have a wonderful open heart and they are very tolerant. I have nothing but admiration for their innate goodness. They are also sexually active. So what? It is stupid to moralize about it. I would rather have tolerant, open, young people who are sexually active who won't hurt a fly than stuck up people full of idiotic notions of morality and religiosity who are intolerant and narrow-minded. Being so called sexually chaste does not help me one bit.

Gays and lesbians?

islam and sex.

sex in islam (QURAN and sunna)is,

1-divine command and a form of worship ,
the creator god created sex drive in mankind and command he/she to use it,no nunism and no celibaism,and no extremism,obeying the command of the creator god is a form of worship and a form of submission.
submission and obeying the command of the creator god is what make the difference betwen mankind and the rest of the animals kind.

monkeyies and pigs have sex drive and are procreationests.(they do not go to abortion,s clincs ).

mankind is way superior ,only when connected and submited to his/her creator god.

2-human body is a trust (you are not the creator of your own body )and you better keep that trust ,if you abuse it you lose it ,if you do not lose it to AIDS you lose it to hogism you walk around carrying a heart of a pig and a mind of a pig ,worse than AIDS may the creator god save you and me .

3-is subject to crime and punishment ,rewardation and compensation ,useing it properly not only strength your body and soul but you get paid for it .
complet harmony ,fullfiling the right of the creator god,the right of body and the right of others.

4-its not only about body and soul pleasure but also about procreation,bringing good people to this life to worship the creator god and construct life.

5-its a form of love and compassion not animals husbandry or dairy queen.

5-if you have better civilized and safe sex than the above please bring it down.

Calvin and Daniel,

You are quite right that I have side-stepped the issue of sex in Muslim cultures, partially because that is a huge topic. Muslims cultures are very divergent, both across the Muslim world and within any given country. Do you consider repressive countries such as Iran, Saudi and Afghanistan representative or more liberal ones such as Morroco, Turkey or Indonesia? And within any given country (even those where they are not allowed to express it) you will find huge variation, from those who take an extremely suppressive approach to sexuality, to those who advocate complete sexual freedom. As I don't have any data regarding how prevalent the various attitudes might be, I can't really speak to what Muslims worldwide believe. I can attest though, that you will find the whole gamut of opinions in any Muslim country.

My experience in the American Muslim community is that sex ed for young folks is very much on people's minds. While the more conservative groups advocate for abstinence until marriage, nearly everyone also affirms the importance of healthy sexual relationships after marriage. Unwanted pregnancies and the transmission of disease, especialy HIV, are of great concern. Youth camps often have q and a sessions on gender and sexuality (and having sat in on a few of these, I can attest that NO question is out of bounds).

Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV) stands for the decriminalization of consensual expressions of sexuality -- hetero or homosexual, and at any point in one's life. How one chooses to express one's sexuality should be a private matter between yourself, your partner and God.

Was Aisha emotionally mature coming inside off her swing to be bed by the prophet at age nine? Did his kissing and caressing help? Perhaps the writer needs to look more thoroughly at the prophet's sexual exploits. Anything but balance and moderation.

Another view of Islam and sex-related practices:

From a Muslim scholar who was driven from Islam:

From- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's autobiography, "Infidel".

"Thus begins the extraordinary story of a woman born into a family of desert nomads, circumcised as a child, educated by radical imams in Kenya and Saudi Arabia, taught to believe that if she uncovered her hair, terrible tragedies would ensue. It's a story that, with a few different twists, really could have led to a wretched life and a lonely death, as her grandmother warned. But instead, Hirsi Ali escaped -- and transformed herself into an internationally renowned spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women."
ref: Washington Post book review.

four excerpts:

p. 47 paperback issue:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

p.68:

"The Pakistanis were Muslims but they too had castes. The Untouchable girls, both Indian and Pakistani were darker skin. The others would not play with them because they were untouchable. We thought that was funny because of course they were touchable: we touched them see? but also horrifying to think of yourself as untouchable, despicable to the human race."

p.309

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating."

p. 347

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".

It is funny she failed to mention mut’ah or pleasure marriage in Islam. It is a temporary marriage. It can be for an hour or longer. It is approved by the Islamic councils. The woman is supposed to wait for two months before she marries again but as in all other Islamic rules there is a way around it or most often it is just ignored. I lived in Jeddah and you see the “brides” calling from the upper floors of their apartments or their “brothers” looking for a suitable suitor for their “sister”. At least the girls working the street don’t use religion to justify their sin.

To quote Whoopi Goldberg, "Kids are going to have sex. It feels good." We need to completely remove God, religion, education-by-fear, and other repressive methods from the equation. Making birth control available, keeping abortion safe and legal, educating young people so they have information about their own bodies, and teaching them self-respect. Quoting from a book written thousands of years ago (Muslim, Christian, Jewish... it doesn't matter) and scaring young people with STD misinformation (instead of offering information and condoms) and holding back birth control has REALLY HELPED, hasn't it? Maybe it's time we stepped out of the dark ages and treated young people and their emerging sexuality (gay and straight) with the same candidness that we approach their growth in other areas of their lives.

Although most religions warn us about the dangers of pre/extra-marital sex, it is obvious we are not paying attention as pre/extra-marital intercourse and other pre/extra-marital sexual activities are out of control with over one million abortions and 19 million cases of STDs per year in the USA alone.

from the CDC-2006

"Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain STDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psychological consequences of STDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs associated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."
How in the world do we get this situation under control?

A pill to temporarily eliminate the sex drive would be a good start. (Andy Rooney of 60 Minutes calls it an anti-desire pill - 4/18/2010). And teenagers and young adults must be constantly reminded of the dangers of sexual activity and that oral sex, birth control pills, condoms and chastity belts are no protection against STDs.

Might a list of those having an STD posted on the Internet help? Sounds good to me!!!! Said names would remain until the STD has been eliminated with verification by a doctor. Lists of sexual predators are on-line. Is there a difference between these individuals and those having a STD having sexual relations while infected???

And the following data need to promulgated so everyone is aware that today's contraceptives don't always work to the degree advertised: (from the Guttmacher Institute)

Percentage of women (men) experiencing an unintended pregnancy (a few examples)

Method Typical

Pill (combined) 8.7
Tubal sterilization 0.7
Male condom 17.4
Vasectomy 0.2
Periodic abstinence 25.3
Calendar 9.0
Ovulation Method 3.0
Sympto-thermal 2.0
Post-ovulation 1.0
No method 85.0
(Abstinence) 0
(Masturbation) 0

Islam is no different when it comes to the following:

Wow! Enlightening!
Surely beats the Dour Vatican's (stupid) viewpoint!

Posted by: huguenotklj "It never ceases to amaze me that some people have minds so small they can't wrap them around the idea that sexual freedom also involves the idea of saying "not until marriage."
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Everyone has this option. The problem comes when certain people say it is the only option and condemn you because you did not "choose" their way. I have great repect for those individuals who choose to wait until they are married. I have also know people who made that choice only to find out that they and their new spouse were sexually incompatible. You should definitely not have casual sex or unprotected sex until you want children, but for those who choose to have sex with a commited partner and do so responsibly should not be punished or looked down on.

Islam in general seems hardly progressive when it comes to gays and lesbians. Same gender sex is prohibited by law in almost all muslim nations. Seems like that is neither balanced nor moderate since everyone now realizes homosexual orientation is an inborn trait, not a choice.

all i have to say that why do humans KILL humans in the name of religion,why is it a crime to educate young women?the thought of young children strapping bombs to themselves. thats a great religious figure,why not look in your heart and feel the need of family. just disgusting

Telling analysis. Islam is more than the sayings and behavior of the Prophet. Islam is the series of practices and statements that have shaped social behavior for the thousand years since the Prophet lived. I expected in this answer some analysis of how the issue has been treated by various Islamic scholars and imams from the past to the present, with emphasis on contemporary treatments. There was none of that. There was only a reference to the Prophet's words and behaviors. This type of anaysis is meaningless as it allows each commentator to provide his or her own interpetation of the issue without reference to the real meanings that are derived in daily practice. If someone were bold enough to conduct that type of analysis, they would discover that many Islamic cultures still stigmatize sex - as is evident by the notion that sex causes earthquakes, and by the almost complete absence of sexual freedom, particularly for women, in many Islamic societies. Be honest. Don't hide behind thousand year old words of the Prophet. Talk about sexuality under Islam in practice, not in theory. In the contemporary world, little is offered to prepare the young for their sexuality except to say "It is forbidden until you are married." Where are the sex education classes? Where is literature on sex that is available to the young? Where are the television shows that provide forums for discussions of the subject? They aren't there. (I don't know this for sure, so please correct me if I am wrong with concrete evidence, which is exactly what SHOULD have been in the answer). All that is there are arcane laws that say "if you express your sexuality inappropriately, you will be punished."

I agree that religion, if it meets your own personal ideals of morality, can be useful in teaching young people about sex and respect for their bodies and their partners--even in terms of absitinence. But you, yourself, even stated that muslim clerics still argue over the limitations of "lawful" sex, which means that as usual spiritual texts are taken out of context and are more often used to oppress rather than edify. And women are usually demonized when it comes to sex and sexual fulfillment, neither of which is emphasized in either the koran or King James text. So when it comes to sexual awareness, parents need to take more responsibility in giving their children true facts about sex, safety, temperance in creating loving relationships, and the pitfalls of promiscuity--not guilt trips based soley on heaven and hell teachings. Religion will take care of itself, but we should take care of educating our kids.

It never ceases to amaze me that some people have minds so small they can't wrap them around the idea that sexual freedom also involves the idea of saying "not until marriage."

Geez, the female co-founder of Muslims for Progressive Values is about as "progressive" as the Vatican, but I guess that's not surprising. What's surprising is that there's an organization called "Muslims for Progressive Values" and it has women in leadership roles! I really don't think the Prophet would look too kindly on that now, do you?

Ms. Taylor's quote comes from Sahih Muslim, a Sunni-approved text that Shia Muslims largely dismiss. A progressive Muslim is about as Muslim as pro-choice Catholics are Catholic! Progressive and liberal monotheists are deluded if they think that they are acceptable members of their faiths. These religions are conservative, patriarchal institutions at war with modernity. We'll see what happens....

You have side-stepped the issue that Islam is terribly prudish. Don't you think that this coercive sexual repression may be at the root of what is really wrong with Islam?

Modesty is one thing, but total and complete covering of the body and face at all times really amounts to a compulisive disorder, no offense to any Islamic people who may be reading this, as well as the author.