Pamela K. Taylor
Co-founder, Muslims for Progressive Values

Pamela K. Taylor

Taylor is co-founder of Muslims for Progressive Values, former director of the Islamic Writers Alliance and strong supporter of the woman imam movement. She blogs at A Modern Muslim

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How far away would be far enough?

A mosque near ground zero?

The New York City community board endorsed the Cordoba House, a community center and mosque planned for construction near Ground Zero.

Significant opposition has emerged against the project. Sarah Palin even weighed in this weekend, tweeting, "Peace-seeking Muslims, pls understand, Ground Zero mosque is UNNECESSARY provocation; it stabs hearts. Pls reject it in interest of healing."

Should there be a mosque near Ground Zero?

When I first heard the proposal for a mosque two blocks from ground zero, and not just any mosque but a $100 millions dollar, 13 story mosque, I had very mixed feelings.

New York City's Muslim population is estimated at 600,000. It is well under-served by the 100 some mosques in town, many of which are tiny, store front establishments. On a recent visit to New York, I was confronted with this issue when I was told that there simply wasn't space for women during Friday services at the small mosque near the hotel where I was staying. At first, I thought it was another sign of Muslims ignoring the needs of women, but half an hour later, I saw men spilling out the door and praying on the sidewalk, I realized this was actually a statement of truth. Clearly, there is a need for more mosques in New York.

At the same time, a mega cultural center and mosque just blocks away from a place where Muslims (no matter that I think they are wrong in their interpretation) killed thousands of my fellow countrymen seemed at best callous, and at worst an in-your-face ostentation. A small mosque to serve the needs of the local population, ok, but a huge center, probably one of the largest in New York? It seemed nothing but an affront to the people who died nine years ago.

And yet, another part of me rebelled against that sentiment. After all, the 600,000 Muslims of New York had nothing to do with 9-11. Should they have to pay for the crimes of other people? Crimes which the vast majority of them have soundly repudiated time and time again? Absolutely not. As a person who's spent an awful lot of energy debating just that point, and arguing that Muslims worldwide should not be associated with terrorism, I found it unacceptable to reject a mosque, even one near ground zero, on the basis of the notion that it awakes remembrances of the terrorist attack. That connection would only be valid if large numbers of Muslims are actually sympathetic to terrorism, which they aren't.

Furthermore, how far away would be far enough? Five blocks? Ten? Not in the city at all? Not in the country?? There is no reasonable place to draw the line. And would we disparage a new church being built near the Oklahoma Federal Building? I doubt it, despite the fact that Timothy McVeigh's Christian faith inspired his actions as much as their faith inspired the 9-11 attackers. The double standard involved made me far more supportive of the proposed mosque than I might otherwise have been.

All of my concerns, however, were washed away when I found out recently just who is proposing the mosque -- an organization led by fellow On Faith panelist Imam Feisal Rauf. Imam Rauf has a long track-record of interfaith cooperation and dialogue. His understanding of Islam is liberal, tolerant, pro-woman. I have no doubts that the center, as run by Imam Feisal, will not only serve the needs of the local Muslim community, but also be a forum for bringing people together, fostering healing between communities, and building bridges where the crimes of others have driven wedges between us.

At the same time that I feel comfortable supporting the mosque knowing that Imam Feisal will be its guiding light, that very comfort has led me to question some of the judgments I had previously made. My disapproval of the proposed mosque (and much of the outrage of people who oppose the mosque/cultural center) was centered on the idea that it might be run by a hard-line group of Muslims, who might hold views I consider at best misguided, and at worst abhorrent and dangerous. I was repelled by the idea of extreme views being voiced so close to a site of a horrific crime done by others of similar, extreme views. This feeling flies in the face of my personal commitment to freedom of expression. How could I argue that people should not be allowed to express their opinions here in America, just because they are opinions I find appalling and even if it were in a venue I found inappropriate and offensive? Instead, I should have been arguing that they can say what they like, and our right is to respond in kind.. with arguments, sermons, and discussion.

This conflict within myself has led me all the more to support the mosque/cultural center. We must grapple with tough issues in our society. Muslims must look squarely at extremism and come up with ways to combat it more effectively than we have in the past. Americans must look our own bigotry and racism in the face and come up with ways to combat those evils more effectively than we have in the past. And perhaps most important of all, we must hold fast to the ideals that America stands for -- freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion -- even when those ideals cause pain, anxiety, and fear. To do anything else is to belie our ideals, succumb to our own weakness, to give up some of our own humanity while we condemn others to live under conditions we ourselves would find intolerable.

By Pamela K. Taylor  |  July 20, 2010; 11:07 AM ET Save & Share:  Send E-mail   Facebook   Twitter   Digg   Yahoo Buzz   Del.icio.us   StumbleUpon   Technorati  
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There is an existing Mosque four blocks from the World Trade Center site. It was built in 1970. That is the closest Mosque in Manhattan.

Posted by: watchmaker

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Then it's not oppressive to ask them not to build one at Ground Zero. Any Muslims needing spiritual sustenance can just walk the additional four blocks. It's not so very much to ask.

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Posted by: ZZim | August 4, 2010 5:59 PM
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Thank you, Ms. Taylor, for your thoughtful and introspective column; my thoughts have run much the same way. You're right that, as Americans, we are rightfully deeeply proud of our freedoms of speech and religion. However, I feel that those very rights demand that their practitioners rise to the ideal and practice them with respect; just because you *can* scream at random passers-by doesn't mean you should, and just because you *can* build an enormous mosque a stone's throw from the World Trade Center site, doesn't mean you should. I would whole-heartedly support a small place of reflection - or even just a *smaller* place. (13 stories and swimming pool? Really?) An Islamic community center of that sort would probably be a huge boon to NYC, and you ask a very valid question - how far is far enough? Nevertheless, an edifice like this is too much, too close.

Posted by: greyhound1 | July 27, 2010 1:49 PM
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Momtotsan: "The fact that they visited bars and strip clubs the night before their attack is really revealing. A truly pious Muslim would have spent the night in prayer, not at establishments that fundamentalist Muslims (or even moderate Muslims) would see as dens of iniquity. "

I have to laugh for it shows how awfully little do you know about Islam and its warriors. I hope you are familiar with the compound that was discovered in Afghanistan where they were brainwashing little boys to become suicide bombers. The pictures on the walls were the images of the hedonistic paradise of Quran that Allah promises the muslims who die in Allah's cause. Rivers of milk and honey and beautiful hurs beyond imagination ready to satisfy every desire of the "shaheed". This is no heaven with sexless angles singing hymns. This is the same imagery that was used by the old man of alamut who used some drug (some conjecture it to be hashish) induced delusions to train his Jihadist assassins. And then there are the Sahih Hadith:
SAHIH BUKHARI - VOLUME 3, #432:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri that while he was sitting with Allah's messenger we said, "Oh Allah's messenger, we got female captives as our booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence."

Winning "booty" and having sex with the women captives was part of the allure of the army of Muhammad. If you want I can dig up from the Islamic history where it is mentioned where one or another companion of Muhammad was delayed because he was busy having sex with the captured female slaves.
Pious Muslims have never understood the aversion to sex that pious christians talk about.

Posted by: AKafir | July 26, 2010 8:20 PM
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Momtotsan:

Your link at WP does not work, and I cannot comment on what that article might be saying, but I hope by putting the "Christian Identity" in quote you are not referring to the thoroughly debunked connection that was postulated early in the investigation to the cult of "christian identity" at Elhoim City by some merely because Timothy McVeigh had made some calls to their Compound. Is the article referring anything beyond that? If not then it is old and thoroughly debunked silly conspiracy nonsense. Far more credible than that silliness is the book by Jayna Davis "The Third Terrorist: The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing" which exposes McVeigh as the ultimate traitor, acting in collusion with al-Qaeda terrorists and hostile foreign governments such as Iran and Iraq. I don't put much faith in that book either, but I have not studied it enough to say categorically that Jeyna is wrong.
I would like to know if that WP article is saying anything other than what I have outlined above.

Posted by: AKafir | July 26, 2010 8:03 PM
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akafir -- there seems to be fairly general agreement that McVeigh was connected with the "Christian Identity" group, and perhaps other white supremacist groups as well. For reference, see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/04/AR2005060400147.html.

He certainly had as much connection to his Christian roots as the 9-11 bombers had to Islam, and probably more. The fact that they visited bars and strip clubs the night before their attack is really revealing. A truly pious Muslim would have spent the night in prayer, not at establishments that fundamentalist Muslims (or even moderate Muslims) would see as dens of iniquity.

Posted by: momtotsan | July 26, 2010 3:33 PM
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Do non-mulism move to majority mulsim contries ffor freedom to parctice their religion? No. They go there knowing full well that country does not have the same freedoms we have here. Those countries have a state religion and do not hid that fact.

Our constitution specifically gives all people the same right to freely practice their religions and people come here expecting us to uphold our own laws.

I have spent a lot of time on lower Manhattan and know both the sitres well. You cannot see the mosque site from GZ. There are three blocks of sky scrapers and office buildings in the way. It is also not on a main traffic opath to the memorials. It is on an east/west street (the N/S streets bing the main routes to WTC area).

We cannot stoop to the level of these other countries, our founding fathers made sure we know that.

Posted by: schnauzer2 | July 26, 2010 11:12 AM
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"How far away would be far enough"?

How far is Mecca from NY City?

Posted by: nuke41 | July 26, 2010 7:30 AM
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“By the way, there are even indications that 9-11 wasn't done by so-called Muslims. Perhaps one day the complete truth about that tragedy will be revealed.”

We had not yet forgotten that many Muslims including Osama Bin Laden himself denied that AlQaeda had anything to do with the 9-11 attacks. Not until some video tape was discovered showing him gloating over what “the brothers” had achieved that those shrill voices were muted. Now and nine years later those same voices are attempting again to cast doubts on who the perpetrators were.

Posted by: abrahamhab1 | July 26, 2010 6:56 AM
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Great article.

In real Islam, Muslims aren't allowed to attack anyone at all, especially not civilians. Muslims are only allowed to fight, when they have to protect themselves from enemy attack. Even then there are certain boundaries they musn't trespass. (even during warfare, real Islam doesn't allow destroying cities, killing any civilian, etc.) Certain deeds can throw Muslims out of Islam, 9-11 is one of them.

By the way, there are even indications that 9-11 wasn't done by so-called Muslims. Perhaps one day the complete truth about that tragedy will be revealed.

Posted by: sadya |
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Really? And, do tell, Sadya, what are the "indications"? Tell, so we can feel more comfortable about this mosq.

Posted by: farnaz_mansouri2 | July 25, 2010 1:48 PM
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Pleazza, Tell'th iSLAM; that this 'Apple' & 'Heart'; is OUR Offer (instead Olive Branch) for ALL/EVERY & ANY "HUUMATE"; NOt HUMAN anymore! OMMM..., AUMM..., AMEEN..., Now O' EKLAH-t-iON!
.
..
...
.....................................(..U;S;A..).............................
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.. . . . .PEACE, SHALOM, SALAAM. AHIMSA, ZINGYU,
. . . . ..PAZ, FRIEDAN, MIR..…LOVE, ROCK-n-ROLL..!

According to The 'NEW-SONG' of the "HOlyi COsmic FEelers FAith" Religion, Belief, Awareness) aka the "Religion Of Everything Before Science Of Everything" [Prophetically "Made-In-America", NO Accident]
THAT

1) "Let there be NO Worship of JEALOUSY as a G-D/ALLAH/iSHVARA et al!"

2) "Let there be NO Abuse of LOVE to forgive UNCORRECTED-SIN(s)!"

3) "Let there be NO Hassling over a NAME for G-d!"

4) "Let there be NO Denial of Freedom of the O.ne U.niversal R.eligion et al!"

5) "Let there be NO Dishonoring of HONORABLE Parents!"

6) "Let there be NO Unjustifiable HOMICIDE or HURTING!"

7) "Let there be NO Sex with Non-CONSENTERS or BEASTS!"

8) "Let there be NO Theft from NON-THIEVES or NON-USERERS!"

9) "Let there be NO False WITNESSING or Un-JUST Judging!"

0) "Let there be NO Envy of HUE{MATES or Folks keeping these FIATS of O.U.R. NEW-SONG!"

Posted by: probably-no-deity | July 24, 2010 10:17 PM
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.. BEWARE: The Pisces-Age [WAR-BLESSiNGS era] is now being swallowed Bt The Great EKLAH-t-ion Preditor; Thus Ushering; The "PEACE-BLESSiNG" era of the Coming AQUARiUS-AGE, as Promised (US)!
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...........................................................................
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……......../..(♥)_).).).).).\. ) .). ) .). ). ). ) .). )__././././././././ .
............…\____ ).).).).).). ). ). ). ). ) .). ). ).__.\.\.\.\.\.\.\.\...
{-ABRAHAMICs;> .)))))))./.). ). ) ) ) .). )_/,-’__.\.\.\.\.\.\..
............…..___,').),'). ). ). ). )_),,--'……………...\.\.\.\.\.\ …
............….(_______............\.\)_),--'"……………...`\.\.\.\ ...
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.. }-VEDICSs;> .|)))))).)./. ). ). ) .) .) .). ).)_/,-`__.\.\.\.\.\.\.\..
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............…\____ ).).).).).). ).). ). ). ) .). ). ).__.\.\.\.\.\.\.\.\...
{-ISLAMICs;> .)))))))./. ). ). ) .) .) .). ).)_/,-`__.\.\.\.\.\.\.\..
............…..___,').),'). ). ). ). )_),,--'……………...\.\.\.\.\.\ …
............….(_______............\.\)_),--'"……………...`\.\.\.\ ...
............……………….-.........\.\.\……………………...`\.\.\ ..
............……,…………...........\.\.\……………….............`\.
.....................................................................................
..
... CREDIT to "JJ" . . @ . . http://onwapo.com

Posted by: probably-no-deity | July 24, 2010 9:59 PM
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Sadya:

By the way, there are even indications that 9-11 wasn't done by so-called Muslims. Perhaps one day the complete truth about that tragedy will be revealed.

Another question--why do mullahs suffer from conspiracy theories.

9-11 was planned and carried out by the Jews, right? I see no hope for mullahs.

Posted by: arkns | July 24, 2010 2:54 PM
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Sadya,
As far as not attacking civilians in "real Islam", here is a hadith from Imam Muslim about your Prophet Muhammad attacking civilians without any warning to them:

Book 019, Number 4292:

Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before m". ing them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others. On that very day, he captured Juwairiya bint al-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.


And ofcourse those he imprisioned he would enslave and sell, ransom, or trade. Go read your Islamic laws and history.

Posted by: AKafir | July 24, 2010 2:04 PM
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Posted by: sadya | July 24, 2010 2:50 AM
"In real Islam, Muslims aren't allowed to attack anyone at all, especially not civilians. Muslims are only allowed to fight, when they have to protect themselves from enemy attack. Even then there are certain boundaries they musn't trespass. (even during warfare, real Islam doesn't allow destroying cities, killing any civilian, etc.) Certain deeds can throw Muslims out of Islam, 9-11 is one of them. "

Sadya, I know you believe the nonsense you have written. However, you are ignorant of Islam, it's laws, and its history as most "moderate" muslims are.

Read the Laws of Warfare under Jihad in the Reliance of the Traveller (an exposition of Sunni Sharia) and see that cutting of trees, and destroying dwellings of Kafirs is considered perfectly legitimate. There are many Sahih hadith about what and who can be killed in Jihad.
You can read many of them for yourself:
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/019.smt.html

Book 019, Number 4321:

It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

Book 019, Number 4324:

It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) ordered the date-palms of Banu Nadir to be burnt and cut. These palms were at Buwaira. Qutaibah and Ibn Rumh in their versions of the tradition have added: So Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, revealed the verse:" Whatever trees you have cut down or left standing on their trunks, it was with the permission of Allah so that He may disgrace the evil-doers" (lix. 5).

Posted by: AKafir | July 24, 2010 1:56 PM
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Great article.

In real Islam, Muslims aren't allowed to attack anyone at all, especially not civilians. Muslims are only allowed to fight, when they have to protect themselves from enemy attack. Even then there are certain boundaries they musn't trespass. (even during warfare, real Islam doesn't allow destroying cities, killing any civilian, etc.) Certain deeds can throw Muslims out of Islam, 9-11 is one of them.

By the way, there are even indications that 9-11 wasn't done by so-called Muslims. Perhaps one day the complete truth about that tragedy will be revealed.

Posted by: sadya | July 24, 2010 2:50 AM
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"despite the fact that Timothy McVeigh's Christian faith inspired his actions as much as their faith inspired the 9-11 attackers."

Where did you get that fact, Pamela? I have never been able to get any muslim to actually ever substantiate that claim. Please provide a reliable reference that one can check. I hope you can for if you cannot then you word on any other topic should be doubted as well.

Posted by: AKafir | July 23, 2010 10:14 PM
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Thank you ARKNS

Posted by: Secular | July 23, 2010 8:23 PM
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There may be a Mosque 4 blocks from ground zero. At the time that was built there was no reason for it to be built for power. The bombing of the Twin Towers changed allthat. Now that location is a sign of overtaking its enemies. As another person pointed out. Islam tends to build it greatest Mosques closest to the location it had dominated and this is just one of those sites.

Posted by: mickey94558 | July 23, 2010 8:12 PM
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I have pointed out in several posts here "On faith" the double standards Muslims pursue with abandon, never questioning them, and even aware of them. That is why I am mad at mullahs. I call all of them mullahs because as far as I am concerned, so long as they pursue double standards, they are all fanatics and should be called mullahs. I have seldom met a truly liberal Muslim in my life. All of them are fanatics at some level.

The last time I visited India, I had a Indian Muslim driver. He was complaining about the violence in Pakistan. I said good that you realize the relative security in which you live in India. But you should moderate your demands for special treatments--your incessant demands on Kashmir, your demands for Muslim laws, even Sharia by many, and your demands for more mosques. How come your cousins in Pakistan do not allow any religious freedom, any opportunities to minorities. His response was "Kya kare Saab" (what to do?). I said encourage your community to protest about the treatment of minorities in Muslim countries--that's what you need to do. So I confront them directly because I am fed up. Ms. Taylor's offer to sign a petition for greater religious freedom in Muslim countries means nothing.

My main question to Ms. Taylor is why are Muslims so narrow-minded and intolerant? Given the prevalence of narrow-mindedness and intolerance in Islamic countries, it seems the Koran teaches Muslims to adopt such attitudes. What other explanation is there--please enlighten us infidels.

Posted by: arkns | July 23, 2010 7:10 PM
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How far away is acceptable is actually a reasonable question. Obviously, the sight should not be adjacent to or within sight of ground zero. Without knowing the urban topography of NYC it would be hard to set a firm distance but I think that it should not be a building or location directly affected by the attack (such as having parts of the plane or the towers strike it), should not be able to be seen from ground zero or have a location from which ground zero could be viewed, and should not be located along any major road through which large numbers of visitors to ground zero would be passing. I think that a 1-2 mile radius should be enought to prevent the type of offense people are feeling but an actual on-the-ground survey should be conducted to make sure it is far enough away to not have any relationship with or connection to the site of the attack.

Posted by: rentianxiang | July 23, 2010 5:27 PM
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oooppssa again:

MOVE it To "CHINA [SiNO] TOWN", aye.

Posted by: probably-no-deity | July 23, 2010 4:38 PM
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oooppss.

Note: The Problem is In 98% of the American Islami Ummah, requires Conversion to Islam Faith/Religion/belief, in case of say an Irish Catholic guy wanting to marry a Islami Girl, as Mandatory that one Needs/Must (or Foget-abbbbooouutttiiiittt) Convert to Islam. Or ELSE?

Can me Kafir [Eklah't-ion] Daughter get to marry ye Islami Son w/out the Conversion [Religious] process to fulfill the sacred [Secular] VOW? Note: Alot of Hindu American Ummah Intermarry/mix alot; but Not Islami's. Jews intermarry alot. Christians, Catholics, Mormons, Buddhists et al Ummah also integrate; but NO NOt Islami Ummah?? THIS is (one-of) the Problem in America and Elsewhere.

This is NOt a Cartoon; IT's more Than That!

Posted by: probably-no-deity | July 23, 2010 4:36 PM
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EVERY, ANY & ALL [especially] 'Mosques' are "EMBASSY"S for the "ELDER'S of AL TAQIYAH" ummah. And All Mosques are Safe/Havens (not safe Harbor) for ILLEGAL-Islami's in America which is in the 100's of Thousands or +million men [MECCAn, potential Islami Soldiers Army]. And

an Islami Imam, or person, should never equate Religion' with 'Race'. i.e., the Chinese Ummah Here Intermarry Allot; But Islami (because of Allah's Will?) Do-NOt. As a Matter of Fact

Most Islami's Kids Marry Not by Choice but by Parental-Arranged Partners (like Cows). And this means that many Islami Guy's Here can request for a Bride to Come to America. and or He or She Fly's back to their Islamic Nation to marry there and apply at U.S, [Secular] Embassy's therein/at to Come to America to stay & have lots of islami baby's at tax payers expense at first; THEN?

Italian's , who built-up The Major Cities, Highways, infrastructure etc.. along with Irish, Chinese, European-Jews (before Israel of 1948), Afro-Ameri's etc.. all had Assimilated/Integrated & INTERMARRY, so don't forget that Ameri-islami's & World islami ummah.

REVEALation (opposite Secret): WE the "KAFIR" ummah "Think Globally & Act Locally"; but but, Islami's Here or there "Think Locally & act Globally" instead. And

When Ex-Cannibal Jungle-people ummah, not Bedouin Desert People ummah, Malaysian (Indonesians too) suddenly Turned Islami (forced into it by their islami invaders (yes it happened; no joke),, are saying that 'Kafir's Must Never invoke or Use the Name "ALLAH" in vain, in their Churches nor Speaches or even Writings (public, but also private).

PS: The KAFIR should Wrestle Malaysian's & Indonesians away from Islami 'Elders of Al Taqiyah [Theocracy; and Monarchy too)!? Malaysians Men & Wombs all look soo out of their Real CULTture when wearing Islami Garb. Their Young need a Post/Electric Post Atomic Age & now Post PISCES-Age (a System which Islami Imam's & Congregate's reject) into the AQUARiUS-Age (which Kafir Rabbi's, Priests, Elder's .. Accepts), an Awakening.

AHMADIYYA People (victims) in Pakistan, Lahore; should be entitled to Have a Big Chunck of Land as their own Nation there. Note: Pakistan is on large swat of Stolen Landa from sweet sweet India (via Islami Pretext that they can't live with Hindu's). Now Islami Paki's are stealing Kashmir. THEN?

Posted by: probably-no-deity | July 23, 2010 4:18 PM
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Ms. Taylor, thank you for your response. I am not sure if you have seen my posts on other blogs or not. My pseudonym and my writings should make it amply clear where I stand on so called places of worship. Personally speaking I have no, absolutely no interest in seeing any more places of worship be built to venerate mythical beings, be it be Yweh, Allah, Jesus, Krishna, Rama, or Durga, Zeus, etc,etc. The point I was making is the aggressive demands muslims make of their host countries while they remain completely oblivious to the fact that none of islamic paradises reciprocate and provide even a minute fraction of privileges to the expat community on their soil. Unlike you most of them hail from outside of US and they would never propose that their native lands reciprocate to the expat community the type of privileges they enjoy in these United States.

These past nine years and even before the 9/11 I have observed the increased stridency of demands from immigrant muslim community, but never heard of them agitating for a more liberal treatment by the governments in their native lands to liberalize. Your offer to add your name to any petitions for new temple in Dubai or any other country hardly matters. It would be just another signature. The challenge to you is would you agitate in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Iran, to liberalize their treatment of non-muslims amongst them. Until then your laments of so called mistreatment or whatever of muslims in the US just ring very hollow and self-serving.

You had previously written at length critical of french ban of Burqa. You may have heard of a NY Time columnist Maureen Dowd's recent visit to Saudi Arabia, citadel of islamic virtue. As soon as she landed apparently she was issued an government standard Abayah for her to don it during her visit. If you feel that french ban on Burqa is disagreeable, then certainly you must find the Saudi edicts that all women wear Abayah equally repugnant. If so have you expressed your views in Saudi news outlets with same rigor as you express yours in Washington Post. The list too numerous to cover here. But I look forward to hear from you on the initiatives you have taken or propose to take with regards to the two issues I have raised.

Posted by: Secular | July 23, 2010 3:56 PM
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Secular:

I commend you for an excellent post. I have been saying the same thing--we should allow the construction of mosques in secular countries strictly on a reciprocal basis. India should do the same. It seems we have mosques there on every corner. Are we turning into a mullah country? Every time I visit there, some mosque from somewhere is forcing me to listen to the "call to the faithful" The problem is mullahs have no trouble calling to the infidels as well. They think it helps conversion, this overbearing attitude of theirs. I think they should keep the wailing inaudible. Anyway, the number of temples allowed in that paragon of mullah virtue Saudi Arabia should be a guide to us infidels in allowing mosques to be constructed in our infidel countries. It's the only language mullahs understand.

Posted by: arkns | July 23, 2010 12:50 PM
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How far away?

I haven't seen the area map, so I'd want to know if people visiting Ground Zero to reflect there would see an enormous mosque looking down on them.

THAT would be inappropriate.

Posted by: WmarkW | July 23, 2010 12:09 PM
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Dear Secular -- I would support any efforts to have a temple built for the Hindus of and/or living in Dubai. (Or any other country for that matter, Muslim majority or not Muslim majority.) Is there any ongoing effort to put pressure on the government of Dubai? I'd be glad to add my name to that effort.

Posted by: Pamela K. Taylor | July 23, 2010 11:30 AM
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How far away? Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, or Pakistan sound about far enough. You know, in the middle of the "islam is a religion of peace" world.

Posted by: whm99 | July 23, 2010 8:02 AM
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Oh Ms. Taylor, I cant keep myself from crying you a song. Alas only paltry 100 mosques for 600,000 muslims. Guess how many temples or places of worship were there for hindus in one of your most liberal the 47 paradises, Dubai in 1998. Big fat ZERO for 300,000 Hindus, then. Guess what twelve years later there is one, with likely population of more 500,000. To add insult the most tolerant authorities of Dubai, could not bring themselves to permit the temple foundations to touch the holy Dubai soil. Anyone can pee or defecate anywhere on Dubai, but you cannot have a temple foundation. So they have to build it on the second floor. This temple is only one in the entire UAE, so the population it serves is far greater than that. I just cannot put my finger on it, but I don't know why the islamic tolerance and generosity always underwhelms me.

I first started to read your article and thought, ah! finally a sane voice form the muslim side. But as always my hopes were harshly dashed to the ground. Your tone of voice turned more and more shrill and defiant. I realized here is yet another chorus of whining and demanding voice. You guys see oppression under every damn stone. Why don't you try to find out why your the governments of your 47 paradises punish the non-muslims on their soil. After all no non-muslim ever flew any planes into your buildings. Looks like 19 members of a religious community have to fly the planes into another country's buildings, then and only then that community gets the right build a place of worship anywhere they wish, even when they have a place of worship for every 6000.

Yasseryusufi:
You challenged me on another blog challenged me that every one of the paradises allows places of worship of other religions. You accused me of making unsubstantiated charges. Here you have the proof.

All,
The trouble with vocal muslims who protest so called discrimination or what have you, are soon to see oppression, racism, Islamophobia under every stone not even a rock. From draw a mohammed day, to cartoons, to movies everything offends these people. At the drop of the hat they invoke it offends 1.5 billion muslims. They have no problem stereotyping themselves when it serves their purpose. Now it has come to be that if the damn mosque is not allowed it is punishing the 600,000 of them in NYC, or is it the several million in North America, why not all the 1,500,000,000 of them for the crime of 19. But they are definitely OK with the Dubai government denying the 500,000 Hindus from building a temple. One great relief is that it is not a punishment. It would only be a punishment, if and only if 19 hindus were to fly planes into Burj Al Khalifa and Burj AL Arab and then if Dubai denies permission to build a temple.

Posted by: Secular | July 23, 2010 7:04 AM
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far away in history.

there are thousands and thousands of churches and other none places of worships thru and right in the heart land of the islamic world.

they were built way befor the holy english magna charta and much way far away before the holy Founding Father.

is that a slap on muslims face?does this break the hearts of muslims who were crushed and tourtured under the christians and other christians crusaders?

the above prove one thing,
it prove the tolerance of islam and the intolerance bigotry and hypocrisey of not only the christian world but the none religion secular world as well.

the above also prove that good ideology not only beat bad ideology but it common ground mankind.

remmber,

juchristian world and the none religion secular world failed right in the heart land of jesus land and land of the free to even tolerate each other let alone common grounding other people by the people and for the people.

$$$$$$$$$$ is the common ground in america ,wait and see how many common ground america will keep when she lose the $$$$$$$$$$$


oh god bless america sooooo good with better theology and ideology.

is the slaves market moneument in charleston NC is a slap on african american citizens?

nothing fail nations like hyocrisey.
HYPO is the way the truth and life of destructing mankind.

Posted by: mono1 | July 23, 2010 4:07 AM
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There is an existing Mosque four blocks from the World Trade Center site. It was built in 1970. That is the closest Mosque in Manhattan.

Since I have never heard anyone complain about it (and I live here) I'm guessing this is yet another case of no one wanting to look at actual facts.

Posted by: watchmaker | July 23, 2010 1:26 AM
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“And would we disparage a new church being built near the Oklahoma Federal Building? I doubt it, despite the fact that Timothy McVeigh's Christian faith inspired his actions as much as their faith inspired the 9-11 attackers.”

Wrong! First McVeigh was an atheist, and number two he did not use his faith or lack of it to justify his crime. As to your question how far is far enough I say as far as the nearest church or synagogue or temple is from Mecca

Posted by: abrahamhab1 | July 22, 2010 11:54 PM
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How far? In Saudi Arabia? or further east Pakistan? Mosques are ugly and in a big city like NY will breed more terrorists exactly like the London mosque. What famous terrorist will come from the Cordoba mosque? Ground Zero does not deserve more islamic insult. Muslims have never taken responsibility for their 911 attack. Some deny it, many condone it, many blame it on the Jews but none have confronted 911 and asked themselves why. There is no muslim who will say; we screwed up and need to change.

Muslims don't visit GZ because it reminds them of their failed attempt at bringing down the US financial institution, a mosque will make a good excuse to be there. This was a bold aggressive act that muslims have collectively (muslims never apologized for 911) carried out in modern times. They all celebrated but in time realized their mistake. Musims because of their faith are backward and desperate, the obvious reality is that they are going nowhere. The only way of being noticed is by acts of terror and nuisance value wherever they live. Basically Islam sucks.

Posted by: Arif2 | July 22, 2010 9:41 PM
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Not allowing a mosque to build near Ground Zero would be flatly un-American. The argument that it would bring back painful reminders of what happened is a thinly-veiled emotional plea to cover up racism and Islamophobia.

This country is home to 6 million Muslims. They are citizens, Americans, just like you and me. Many of them are white, black, Latino, Asian, and had nothing to do with 9/11. Lumping them together and criminalizing their place of worship is racist, and goes against the grain of this country and against the intent of our founding fathers.

Furthermore, a mosque at Ground Zero would stab hearts? What next? A Muslim wouldn't be allowed to come near Ground Zero? Muslims died in the 9/11 attacks too, on the plane, in the towers, and on Ground Zero as relief workers and police officers. Palin's comments are ignorant at best, racist at worst.

Posted by: Jim965 | July 22, 2010 5:20 PM
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About 10,000 miles away in Pakistan.

Posted by: arkns | July 22, 2010 4:53 PM
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How far away would be far enough? Not in downtown Manhattan.

Posted by: Robert2008 | July 22, 2010 4:49 PM
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This SOUNDS reasonable enough, although I do echo other poster's concern on other boards about the funding source.

I'd say that if Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan and Ayyan Hirsi Ali agree that it will enhance tolerance and cooperation, than I'll support it.

Posted by: WmarkW | July 22, 2010 2:49 PM
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It should not be next to the site where Muslims killed thousands of inocent people.

Posted by: arby1 | July 22, 2010 12:30 PM
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