Wisdom lacking on all sides in Ground Zero mosque affair

Hi Pam,

I see that your usual "fans" are here in your thread.

Sooooo...Gingrich, who stated Islam and Muslims are out to destroy western civilisation or something like that; and Palin, who stated once the war in Iraq is a mission from God, is leading a new "Battle for God, Freedom and the American Way of Life".

I don't know if Gingrich is a card carrying member of the NRA, but if I see Palin coming over with a helicopter and rifle in her hands, perhaps I should duck.

Ramadan Kareem.

.

Islam - the religion of violence - survives in the west because of the religious tolerance of western countries. Such tolerance is dangerous. Islam means to become the religion of choice everywhere, and regards non-Islamists as heretics. Trouble ahead folks, trouble ahead.

land of no wisdom

how far the soho vilage from GZ ?how far wall street that brook the nation from GZ?
how far go go bars from GZ?

where were christians?where were moralists?where were sympatheizers?where were patriotsts?

the 2 blocks away building were boarded and auctioned for sale a while a go why christiants did not buy the building so they can* over looking ground zero*?
why the federal gov did not buy the building or raised GZ back so no body can over look the sacrdness?

the matter is so trifle and so funny for world wide muslims but it show the mass ignorance and mass hypocrisey and mass bigotory in america.

nothing ground zero nations like hypocrisey on both scale ,theology as well as ideology.

the power of money and authority in america still superceed the power of values.

HOW DARE YOU ALL! This mosque has absolutely nothing to do with religious tolerance or the FIRST AMENDMENT. It has everything to do with honor and justice. Americans do not object to Muslims. We do not object to mosques. We object to THIS MOSQUE BEING BUILT ON GROUND THAT IS A MEMORIAL. WE WOULD OBJECT TO ANY BUILDING ON THAT SITE. You people just don't get it, do you? If you try to build this mosque on that specific ground, YOU WILL BE FANNING THE FLAMES, not us. YOU are creating this problem by not HONORING OUR WISHES. We, those who object to you building here, want to know WHO IS BEHIND BUILDING THIS MOSQUE. WHO IS PUTTING UP THE MONEY FOR IT? THAT'S WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO KNOW. No one objects to your building it 6 blocks away - WHY MUST YOU BUILD IT THERE, ON THIS SPOT?????? We all know the real reason why. You can use any excuse you want, but the truth is: ISLAM WANTS TO DEEPEN THE WOUNDS YOU HAVE ALREADY CREATED ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE CITIZENS OF NEW YORK CITY. Shame on you. Shame on you for hiding behind lies. If you continue to make plans to build on this site, IT WILL NEVER BE BUILT, I ASSURE YOU. WE TRIED TO WARN YOU. WE TRIED TO TELL YOU. YOU REFUSE TO LISTEN TO THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS. Whatever happens, IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT, BECAUSE WE DID WARN YOU. YOU are placing that wall between us by building there. BE FOREWARNED.

it should have been easy to predict that lots of folks would not understand -- or even try to look past their initial reaction in an attempt to understand -- what this cultural center is about.

The problem is that many people choose not to understand because they enjoy righteous grandstanding on this issue. Most of the people protesting the cultural center did not lose loved ones on 9/11 but claim to be protecting the sensibilities of those who did.

Some strident atheists make the mistake of assuming all Christians support the hateful demagoguery of James Dobson and Pat Robertson, or the shameless attention-seeking of Fred Phelps. I've heard Christians rightly object to this and then turn around and do the same thing with Muslims. If someone won't distinguish between the world's Muslims as a group and the murderous fanatics who perpetrated 9/11, or between the Irish people and the IRA, or between Christians as a group and the Robertsons and Dobsons, that's the person's own problem.

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2010/08/please-forgive-me-for-the-actions-of-extremists-i-have-never-met-who-commit-acts-of-violence-that-i-.html

“it is time for you to learn that Islam is not going away.”

How can you be so sure? Is that not what the Moors and Moriscos of Spain assured the world for 800 years? Where are they today

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/former_vermont_ground_howard_dean_TVP6FsmlsCkAwfWkcZgGkP

Howard Dean does not want the Mosque built there. Is he a right winger bigot? Does he hate Muslims?

http://www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=21980

Abdul Rahman Al-Rashed
the general manager of Al -Arabiya television. Mr. Al Rashed is also the former editor-in-chief of Asharq Al- Awsat, and the leading Arabic weekly magazine, does not want the mosque built at Park 51.

"I cannot imagine that Muslims want a mosque on this particular site, because it will be turned into an arena for promoters of hatred, and a symbol of those who committed the crime. At the same time, there are no practicing Muslims in the district who need a place of worship, because it is indeed a commercial district. Is there a side that is committed to this mosque? The fact is that in the news reports there are names linked to this project that costs 100 million dollars!

The sides enthusiastic for building the mosque might be building companies, architect houses, or politicized groups that want suitable investments?! I do not know whether the building applicant wants a mosque whose aim is reconciliation, or he is an investor who wants quick profits. This is because the idea of the mosque specifically next to the destruction is not at all a clever deed. The last thing Muslims want today is to build just a religious center out of defiance to the others, or a symbolic mosque that people visit as a museum next to a cemetery."

Is he a right winger? Is he a bigot?

There is actually a lady on CNN who thinks the mosque is going to be built on top of ground zero and nobody on CNN is even bothering to tell her it's going to be built two or three blocks away. I mean....that just irresponsible journalism. Shameful!!!
It's called.....IGNORANCE!!!

We have a lot of bigots out here. They have turned this entire thing into a "let's all hate Islam" sentiment. Shameful!! Disgraceful!! But, why am I surprised.

KentonSmith:
"Not the uneducated, ignorant, racist, bigoted America. We are better than this people.
There is no escaping the bigotry and racism by many right wingers here. Most are using the dead victims of 911 and pimping their families and souls for emotional votes. What a disgrace!!
Islam means peace...not terror."

And there you have it. That is the argument. If you are a "rightwinger" you are a disgrace. You are a bigot, a racist. No discussion, no argument, nothing. Pimping their families? Who is going for the emotional votes? Who is using emotional language? Who is calling those who do not agree with "him" a disgrace?

Islam does not mean peace. It means submission. It does not mean terror. Who says Islam means terror? The muslim who disagreed with building at Park51 is now recieving death threats. Is that muslim a bigot as well.
*******************************
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/08/17/15054001.html
Muslim opponent of mosque reports threat
By Brian Lilley, Parliamentary Bureau

Bookmark and Share

OTTAWA - She spoke out against the Ground Zero mosque, now a Canadian Muslim

woman says she is being threatened. Raheel Raza, a founding member of the Muslim Canadian Congress, calls the idea of a mosque within 300 metres of Ground Zero “a deliberate provocation.”

Last week Raza joined Maureen Basnicki a Canadian widow of 9-11 in attending a meeting about the mosque in New York City.

“They were very arrogant. They didn’t answer questions,” Raza told QMI Agency.
********************************

Nah! Must be a rightwinger!! Right Kenton?

I agree with this author's assertion that "mosques and Islam are not going away." This truth is, however, irrelevant to a mosque being erected at Ground Zero; and it is the kind of truth that is close on the heels of anger.

Yet another truth will reveal that religious passions, ferment, enmity, and Islamic terrorism, are not going away.

And, alas, Truth be, in all its human faces, but a sweet dream that humankind will one day shed its religions, and live in peace with itself.

If saying the right thing causes democrats to lose elections then we have a very racist ignorant country. I really don't believe that to be the case. The media is just stretching this thing out for coverage purposes. I don't believe most Americans are this stupid. Obviously the President is right on both fronts and we all know it. THIS IS AMERICA...Not the Republican American...or the religious right America. It's the Constitutional America. The kind of doctrines we send our kids to war to protect. Idiots!! Stand up for the goodness of America. Not the uneducated, ignorant, racist, bigoted America. We are better than this people. If you are going to restrict ALL religious temple so be it. But, I guarantee somebody will try to put up a synagogue,temple,church or shrine just to make a point. If there is no mosque then there shouldn't be any temple. Make it a zoning issue...not a religious issue.

The real joke is that somehow folks want to say Obama backtracked.??? That's just so stupid. Brett Favre text a team mate "this is it". Yet, somehow the media came back and said that meant he was finished...retiring. I wrote them and said;...when Michael Jackson said "this is it" it meant his final tour. Are you sure this doesn't mean Brett wants to make this is "final" season?

Now, we have the political media determine to make Obama appear to be waffling when he is not. Commenting on the right...and or practicality are TWO SEPARATE QUESTIONS.
The President answer wisely on both fronts. Yes...the Muslim community probably could have anticipated some back lash to some extinct but NYC is such a heavily Jewish city that those criticism are probably not unexpected by the Muslim community. I guess unfazed would be the word on that one. To them it's just beautifying the community in the aftermath of disaster.

There is no escaping the bigotry and racism by many right wingers here. Most are using the dead victims of 911 and pimping their families and souls for emotional votes. What a disgrace!! This causes no pain to any politician. Only the families and people close to the WTC are touched in that way. I lost a love one myself. Islam means peace...not terror. Shame on us prejudice ignorant Americans. We are saying; "yes we can" today just so we could get away from the intolerant right and how they destroyed America's world image. Let's not go backwards America.

Wafa Sufltan, author of "A God who Hates", recently said:
"Of course, I was born and raised as a Muslim. And I spent 32 years of my life living under Islamic Sharia. So I know what it means to be a woman living under Islamic Sharia. We have no rights. We are treated as second class citizens. A woman is not a full person. We don't have the mental ability to control our lives. So if our life has to be controlled by a male in our family."

And, she is not a professor of Middle East history either, but is an ex-muslim who knows Islam from the inside. So is she wrong? It really would be nice to know when and where is Islam women Friendly that Pamela, a convert to Islam, living under a Kafir rule and constitution is talking about?

"AKAFIR, unless you are a professor of Middle East History, don't try to pass your views off as fact, you end up sounding more uninformed than someone like JRIL whose statement just makes no sense."

Pamela talks about women friendly Islam. I am asking for a time and place when Islam was woman friendly. Why don't you step in and help her out? Do I need to be a professor of Middle East History to know about Islam and Islamic History? Go ahead write to the shill of Islamic history, Esposito of Georgetown, and get him to help out Pamela so she can tell us when and where in Islam's history has Islam been woman friendly?

Pamela states: "the religious fanatics who want everyone to follow their brand of Christianity, the Republicans who seem to have no problem fanning the flames of bigotry if it can win some voters this fall,"

So ALL Republicans are bigots? Great way to have a discussion when you charge racism and bigotry to shut any examination. That ploy has been overworked. It no longer works. Fanatics and their brand of Christianity? A majority of the Democrats are opposing the building of the Masjid as well at 51 Park. Build the Masjid, but build it elsewhere. Reid got that one right.

As a Christian and a conservative this is about more than a 'can't we all just get along' issue. There should be no religious buildings within a two mile radius of Ground Zero. The government conveniently used the establishment clause for their own purposes when then remove the 10 commandments from courthouses or prayer from schools. But when they help fund and fund-raise for a religious building OF ANY KIND they have violated their own two-faced idealogy on the separation of church and state.

Well said JDE. Just like the few muslims who attacked, it is a few (more than a few I think) "Christians" who are being very un-Christian like that Ms. Taylor was talking about. I had the good fortune to listen to an extremely informative lecture last week, given by Dr. Decker from USC-Sumter(South Carolina) on the Middle East and the history of Islam. The insight and correlation to Christian history was eye opening. This whole issue smacks of bigotry and hurt feelings based on politics. Freedom of religion is a matter of pride in the USA.

AKAFIR, unless you are a professor of Middle East History, don't try to pass your views off as fact, you end up sounding more uninformed than someone like JRIL whose statement just makes no sense.

BTW, since my religion is more than likely to come into question...I am a proud and practicing Roman Catholic.

How is she being bigoted? Ms. Taylor is addressing not all Christians, but "Christians who have been attacking not only this mosque, but ones planned in Tennessee, California, Wisconsin, and Michigan... ". Moreover, all she's said is that Islam isn't going away.

You people need to get over yourselves. Oh, never mind; that's asking the impossible.

Test~!

What on earth was President Obama thinking? Did his advisors actually tell him to go “Pro Ground Zero mosque” with 90 days until the midterms when Democrats are about to get sliced up like a Hibachi Steak at Benihana?

Did someone on his team point to Iran and said, “Don’t worry Mr. President, we can win with 32% of the vote, Ahmadinejad did it, so let’s go pro Ground Zero mosque today?”

Read this article which satirizes the whole mess.

VERY FUNNY stuff.

http://www.dailygoat.com/?p=2653

Why do you hate the Christians? JRIL is correct. You do sound like a bigot. The issue is not what the christians want or not want. "Women friendly"? Are you out of your mind? When and where has Islam been women friendly? You don't have a clue. Please tell us a time and place in history where Islam was woman friendly.

Muhammad's first wife was a pagan and she was independent and free and could marry a younger man. That was the status and freedom for women in Arabia before islam. Now see what is condition of women in Arabia after 1400 years of Islam.

Throughout your article, replace the word Muslim with the word Christian and I think you would see how you are being a bigot. Do you not read what you write?