Two avenging angels in Ireland

I searched for this blog because I needed to see that other people outside those abused in this horrible scandal were as outraged and traumatized as I continue to be after hearing some of the testimony from victims. From what I read in Newsweek, there was a lawsuit exacted by the Christian brothers so that the names of the perpetrators wouldn't be released. And, now there is the anti-blasphemy law to boot. The majority of the Catholic Church has perpetuated a culture of utter derangement. It has to stop. This is not of God.

I share Ms Kirby’s rejoicing that the victims of abuse in Ireland finally had the extent of their suffering acknowledged in 2009, and I also hope that the revelations will have radical and long-lasting effects on the Church in Ireland. However, I do not quite share her views as to why this may be the most important religion story of 2009.
Ms Kirby has made it obvious that the significance of the story lies primarily in its destructive potential, and for Irish-American readers with Catholic links that surely was relevant, but perhaps over-optimistic, from her atheistic standpoint.
Instead I would prefer to see the story as significant because not only did the injured gain their recognition, but good Irish men and women forced the Church and the State to concede power, and above all this has been a power-struggle, even moreso than a respect-struggle. Anyone who has even a basic understanding of Irish history will appreciate the significance of the power struggle between the Church and competing political factions.
I attended a Christian Brother’s secondary day school in the 1960s and I have negative first-hand experience albeit of a limited sort to relate to. I have no problem respecting good people – whoever they are, and some of the brothers were good – but power corrupts all but the most respectful of people.
As for her attack on celibates – whether they be priests or male or female members of religious orders or institutions Ms Kirby needs to do some more research into this way of life and avoid her tendency to exaggerate. Having lived with celibates from a range of continents and seen how well they lived out their chosen life-style, I re-iterate the value of looking at all the evidence.
Will the Church continue to decline in Ireland? The perspective I have adopted emphasizes freedom and choice but without a continuing re-distribution of power Ms Kirby may well have the last laugh!

An excellent article Pauline. I know the Catholic religion well, having been raised as a Catholic.

I know exactly what happens when people are taught and forced to suppress and repress their natural desires and urges. Somewhere, somehow emotions long denied will emerge and they often do so with disastrous results. Denied and suppressed feelings simmer away, eventually to erupt out of the person, often volcanically. If they don’t emerge, that is, if they remain internalised, repressed emotions are well known to cause disease. The target too frequently has been the child; the innocent child, who in Catholicism past was such an especially easy target, considering children were already deemed evil; tarnished according to the vile concept of Original sin.
But we must never forget that these despicable crimes were simultaneously being committed against many other children in other Christian establishments; including numerous Christian homes.
Nor should we just be attacking the Catholic Church here, as in that era and in times past it was deemed acceptable behaviour to malign and denigrate and thrash children. And let's please include all the other believers who have done and still say it is ok to do these things to children.
I believe it is time for a totally new set of the ten commandments and include in them, thou shalt respect, even revere all children - strictly apply the golden rule to include children; not just to as how we are supposed to treat each other, which is routinely applied as meaning only as how to respond to other adults.

Isn’t that what JC allegedly said? About children and a millstone and….

The Catholic Church has not changed at all, as the same inmates are still in charge of the asylum and grimly hanging on. The same old thinking still abounds and the same aged rules are still being espoused by people who have no idea of, or real life experience of parenting or about healthy relationships. How can an elderly prelate without intimate knowledge and experience of these things, presume to advise or instruct anyone about anything?

Until that change occurs, children will not be safe and will still continue to be violated. It's one of a multitude of reasons as to why I no longer have anything to do with the Catholic Church, as I consider it a retrograde, insular, power and dollar hungry, exceptionally dangerous, UNcaring, misogynistic institution.

Speaking of moral insantity and the Catholic Church, it appears that the US is protecting Vatican Bank, which accepted the loot of 200 murdering Utasha priests who stole from Roma, Jews, Serbs, etc., but them to pieces with scissors in the concentration camps said priests ran. What can one say? No doubt the soon-to-be-sainted Pius XII had some doctrinal justification for his crime. LOL!

In the meantime, Italy (!) is investigating some Vatican Bank(ing) irregularities.

As for the American heirs of Nazi Priest victims, keep going. God is with you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/29/AR2009122902738.html

jjenkinsphd:

Thank you very much for your post. I have commented more than once on Levada, astonished at his promotion, given his horrific history. While in San Francisco, he clearly turned a blind eye to evidence and obstructed justice.

Though not Catholic, I am also not morally insane, and the ongoing saga of pedophile priest abuse repels me. Among my students have been persons who were abused. Two had attended a church whose priest was shot by one of his victims. I had recommended counseling but there was no interest, so I scoured the web for resources and found them. That was how I discovered Levada and learned of his history with the Salesians.

For anyone interested in learning more of Levada's history in San Francisco, where he shielded the largest priest pedophile ring then in America, and in Portland:

http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/more-on-cardinal-levada-help-of-anglicans/

For a time, while William Cardinal Levada, now prefect of the Congregation for Christian Doctrine - formerly the Holy Office of the Inquisition, was the archbishop of San Francisco, I was the chair of the archdiocese's review board which investigated allegations of sexual assault and abuse by priests.

I resigned that position in 2004 when it became clear to me that the archdiocese's feeble efforts at investigation were nothing more than an elaborate public relations strategy geared to protect church from further criminal and civil legal exposure.

Truth-seeking or reconciliation with survivors was never the goal.

The story that has unfolded in Ireland scandalizing millions of Catholics around the world could not be told here in the U.S. because government prosecutors and politicians have no taste for taking on the Catholic Church.

Can't blame them, really. There is no political upside in taking on the Catholic Church which is able flex some very powerful political muscles because of its vast corporate resources, like any other U.S. corporation. (Just note the recent intervention of American bishops into the health care debt before the Congress seeking to restrict the right of all American women to access necessary health care.)

The American Catholic Church has spent more than $2 billion, that we know about, in pay-out settlements with survivors. (Is anyone really surprised that church officials are closing churches and ministries, selling off property assets at an increasingly alarming rate?)

The church has employed armies of lawyers to defend itself, many times adopting the most offensive and aggressive legal strategies designed to intimidate and silence survivors and critics.

Bishops are able to posture themselves as victims of selective prosecution gaining public sympathy from docile, or more accurately, unquestioning parishioners who can't countenance further assaults on their static world view of the church as the conduit and broker for everlasting salvation.

There will be no changes in the way the church does business until the people get control of the money. Sadly, this is the prime motivator for the clerics, not the gospel no matter what the public relations efforts of the Vatican and hierarchy would have us believe.

In a Peoples Church, the people will decide. Once the people have democratic control over the affairs of the believing community, only then will the hierarchy experience a spiritual epiphany, not a minute sooner.

It's past time for Catholics here in the U.S., like their brothers and sisters have started in Ireland, to begin the funeral and internment ceremonies for the failed, discredited church leadership and priesthood.

Jim Jenkins is a clinical psychologist in private practice in Berkeley, CA.

I don't know the situation in your country
but in europe there is since more than
30 years a real unmasking process busy
starting with Karlheinz Deschner, his book
"abermals krahte der Hahn" was the beginning of making the real heart of Rome public and gives a red line from the beginning of the church to the fascists.
His serie of 9 books about the criminal
history of the church makes clear that Rome
is only an organisation dominated by powerhunger and womenhate.
The first woman who studied theology in Rome Uta-Ranke Heinemann who knows Radzinger well has also written a book about the vatican mentality "Eunuchen fur
das Himmelreich" and came to the same conclusion as Deschner. It can be that not
all religions poison live, but Rome does
it for 100%

Mary Cunningham wrote "But to say that what happenned 40 to 90 years ago is continuing today and affects the entire Catholic Church is also wrong. "

The cover-ups and obfuscations continue today through silence through the hierarchy and the highest levels hiding behind diplomatic immunity. For the Catholic Church to make any pretence at moral authority is laughable.

@ mary cunn (well, you chopped my name in half, so i see no reason why i should not repay the compliment), your assertion that "sir henry" IS an official is just that, your assertion. Unless and until you can prove it, I will treat the comments by that person as no more important than any other comments and your assertion that this person knows more than Paula is, again, just YOUR assertion and is unproven.

What happened is disgusting and what is continuing to happen (the lack of condemnation, the lack of substantial reform and the ongoing defence of this institution) is disgusting.

What is even more disgusting is you, yet again, defending an institution that defends and hides the crimes committed by people that work for it. There is no defence for these crimes and there is even less defence for the cover up. That the church and its adherents continue to try to defend the indefensible shows that this institution is immoral and evil.

This church has not changed, nor have it's defenders, it has allowed abuse of children to happen throughout the years and throughout the world. It shows no remorse for what has happened, it has no more sorrow for what has happened than a child caught doing wrong, it is only sorry for having been caught.

Mary_Cunningham said
"Lynch mobs, anyone? Or how about setting fire to a cathedral? The church in Longford up in flames? "

We should feel so sorry for those catholic priests and bishops even pope who really had nothing to do at all with the churches behaviour in the past.
They would never ignore willfully the thousands perhaps tens of thousands of complaints about child abuse.
Yes, they are completely innocent because they did strictly nothing.More then that they quietly brushed things under the carpet. But this was only to reduce suffering of course.
Also they have no money at all in their worldwide bank accounts , nor have they any assets at all to compensate the victims. Nor should any resign because they did nothing wrong.

They are simply a shining light and model of virtue!

Why is everyone laughing?

No dont burn any cathedrals. Sell them. They are clearly visible and in choice locations. That way you can easily pay your debt to society. After all it was the poor that paid for your churches. Its only natural you should return the favour.

Any gang that is trying to manipulate individuals to obtain control over the state should be dismantled.

In France all church buildings were appropriated after the revolution. Its why the biggest and nicest building in even the smallest most remote village houses the Mayors office and local state services.

Clear precedent.

LittleBird2 said,

"A small group in Germany called “The Free Christians ... is against such shameful sham Christianity. They announced a lawsuit against the Catholic Church.
...Surely this could be very healthy for our society!"

So that we can replace one crazy powerhungry institution with another? No thanks.

No more silly fairy tales Advertisements about invisible skygods please. Your bad timing and lack of human sensitivity is showing.

Real gods wouldnt need to pay people to write advertisements in internet forums ....

Mary Cunningham said

"Blogs are anonymous. ‘Sir Henry’ showed an admirable grasp of facts and dialectic & chose as pseudonym an Irish free stater. Judging by his use of RCC, I would even doubt he is Catholic, although for sure he is an Irish official."

Supposition on your part, unless you can justify your assertion with some actual evidence.

"But to say that what happenned 40 to 90 years ago is continuing today and affects the entire Catholic Church is also wrong."

Given that the abuse was, as Ms Kirby puts it, endemic and systemic and the hierarchy connived in attempting to hide this then it does affect the church as an organisation.

To try to say that they carry as much, if not more weight than the Ryan and Murphy reports is disgusting
Wrote GMartin-Royle

Well, GMartin , I never said that. I said the official knew more than Ms Kirby . Play fair with your rhetoric GMartin, play fair. I’ll just spit out that straw now.

No, what happened was disgusting. Putting the events in historical context, rather using them as an excuse for bog-standard Catholic-bashing (as you do here) is not disgusting but commendable.

Blogs are anonymous. ‘Sir Henry’ showed an admirable grasp of facts and dialectic & chose as pseudonym an Irish free stater. Judging by his use of RCC, I would even doubt he is Catholic, although for sure he is an Irish official.

Irish priests and brothers committed crimes. When they committed them is irrelevant to the crimes themselves. But to say that what happenned 40 to 90 years ago is continuing today and affects the entire Catholic Church is also wrong.

Lynch mobs, anyone? Or how about setting fire to a cathedral? The church in Longford up in flames? Oh wait! That's where Sir Henry came in.

I've watched a documentary of this scandal in which four former female inmates of these institutions were interviewed. As shocking and horrible as their treatment was what was most telling was the psychological effect it has had -- and is still having -- not only on them, but also on their husbands, children, other family members and friends Bottom line: the number of victims of this type of abuse extends far beyond those directly abused -- for who knows how many generations.

littlebird2, YOU appear to HAVE a defective CAPS lock KEY.

Although the bishop of the child abuse scandal in Ireland will resign, will help the victims and their families who have been emotionally traumatized, not to forget the alienation from God caused by such “STALWART DEFENDERS” of religious faith! Where does the responsibility lie? Enforced celibacy has no biblical foundation at all! Why was it instituted in the first place? And why was such a perversion covered up for so long by an organization that claims to be the guardian of Christian ethics and morals? And why was this allowed by the authorities for so long? Were church and state in each other pockets? May we hope that the discussion with the Pope at the Vatican will HELP clear up ALL THE TRADITIONS AND PRACTICES, DOGMAS AND RITES that CONTRADICT the teachings of the greatest Prophet of all times, Jesus of Nazareth? AND PERHAPS, WHILE THEY'RE AT IT, start compensating for ALL THE wrongs DONE OVER THE ages?! What would Jesus of Nazareth say if He came to the Earth and saw what the church – which claims to speak for Him – has made of His life’s work? A small group in Germany called “The Free Christians for the Christ of the Sermon on the Mount in All Cultures Worldwide” is against such shameful sham Christianity. They announced a lawsuit against the Catholic Church. As they put it, they do not want to remain silent anymore on the “brazen labeling fraud,” with which Christ is mocked and His name abused to such an extent. They demand that the Catholic Church no longer call itself “Christian.”As a Christian. Perhaps your readers would like to check them out: http://www.christus-oder-kirche.de/christ-or-church/index.php There seems to be a grassroots movement to bring this up for discussion on the internet. Surely this could be very healthy for our society!

Calendar of events preceding release of report:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1184828/Revealed-decades-ritual-child-abuse-Catholic-schools-orphanages-damned-report.html

As can be seen from the posts of Ms. Cunningham the Catholic Church has engineered a cover up of most of the abuse and then it's apologists use the results of the cover up to claim the abuse was not widespread.

It's the few bad apples defence pre manufactured by clerics who knew what was happening.

None of the reports investigated the Magdalene laundries in which young women were imprisoned and used as slave labour by Catholic Nuns. In Drumcondra graves were uncovered where bodies had been buried without death certs. Neither of the reports details all the children taken from their mothers and traded to "good" Catholic families where many of them were abused and used. It is estimated some 60,000 babies were taken away with no information given to their mothers as to where they went. The Nuns destroyed the records or have refused to allow access to them.

Where the failure of the Irish State is mentioned it's important to realise that the "State" was one made up of devout Catholics, many of them members of Catholic Associations like the Knights of Columbanus.

I went to an ordinary local school run by the De La Salle brothers. In 10 years fully 99.9% of the Brothers were sadists who used the leather strap to whip children from head to toe. Neither that school nor the thousands like it will ever be mentioned in any report.

In a show of what can only be described as monumental arrogance in 2008 the Christian Brothers opened the Edmund Rice Heritage Centre devoted to their founder. No leather straps are featured and there is no mention of child rape and torture.

It’s places like these the Cunningham’s of this world go to get their Catholic history.

The man who cut the ribbon was Bertie Ahern. He was the leader of the country when the Indemnity deal was signed limiting the monetary damage to the Catholic Church and effectively giving the bill to the taxpayer.

The Murphy, Ferns and Ryan reports are only the tip of the iceberg. To this day Catholics in the Irish Government are still resisting calls to investigate all the dioceses of the Catholic Church in Ireland.

I thought that mary cunningham was qouting herself as an Irish Official who knew more than Paula. In that I was mistaken and I apologise.

The quotes that mary cunningham has provided us with are actually from the Telegraph,
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willheaven/100020750/longford-cathedral-burns-down-is-the-irish-church-under-attack/
and appear under the name of "Sir Henry Grattan". As this gentleman died in 1820 I do not think that these quotes come directly from him and nor do I consider that they come from any Irish Official with more knowledge than Paula. They are nothing more than an opinion of an unknown commentator on an internet blog.
To try to say that they carry as much, if not more weight than the Ryan and Murphy reports is disgusting. Reading these reports is a hard task and the official reports are actually astonishingly forthright about the scandal of how the church has behaved over many decades. They leave absolutely no room for the church to hide. Which is notable in itself, when you consider the diplomatic terms these things are normally couched in.
It would appear that mary cunningham is yet another apoligist for the vile institution that is the catholic church and has taken up lying in defence of it.

As can be seen from the posts of Ms. Cunningham the Catholic Church has engineered a cover up of most of the abuse and then it's apologists use the results of the cover up to claim the abuse was not widespread.

It's the few bad apples defence pre manufactured by Catholic clerics who knew what was happening.

None of the reports investigated the Magdalene laundries in which young women were imprisoned and used as slave labour by Catholic Nuns. In Drumcondra graves were uncovered where bodies had been buried without death certs.

Neither of the reports details all the children taken from their mothers and traded to "good" Catholic families where many of them were abused and used. It is estimated some 60,000 babies were taken away with no information given to their mothers as to where they went. The Nuns destroyed the records or have refused to allow access to them.

Where the failure of the Irish State is mentioned it's important to realise that the "State" was one made up of devout Catholics, many of them members of Catholic Associations like the Knights of Columbanus.

I went to an ordinary local school run by the De La Salle brothers. In 10 years fully 99.9% of the Brothers were sadists who used the leather strap to whip children from head to toe. Neither that school nor the thousands like it will ever be mentioned in any report.

In a show of what can only be described as monumental arrogance in 2008 the Christian Brothers opened the Edmund Rice Heritage Centre devoted to their founder. No leather straps are featured and there is no mention of child rape and torture.

It’s places like these the Cunningham’s of this world go to get their Catholic history.

The man who cut the ribbon was Bertie Ahern. He was the leader of the country when the Indemnity deal was signed limiting the monetary damage to the Catholic Church and effectively giving the bill to the taxpayer.

The Murphy, Ferns and Ryan reports are only the tip of the iceberg. To this day Catholics in the Irish Government are still resisting calls to investigate all the dioceses of the Catholic Church in Ireland.

The heirarchy of the RCC is rotten to the core. All of their excuses and denials highlight their inability to accept responsibility. Their actions go contrary to all they taught as our individual duties. The laity are held to a very high standard while the leaders are exempt. I have seen the light and it is not in the structural church that exists today.

Pope Benedict XVI as Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Holy Office was privy to information, records and substaniated reports of sexual abuse among the clerical ranks for many years. There is no question about that.

He knew.

During those years if he did not agree with the way the Holy See was dealing or not dealing with what amounted to Crimes Against Humanity he could have said so publicly and submitted his own resignation.

He did not.

Did he have reservations? Did he agree with the status quo? Was it because it would have stopped his movement upward? One may never know but however he may have rationalized it, he did not publicly object to the way the institutional church was enabling and facilitating the sexual abuse of untold numbers of children, worldwide.

If there is some other way to interpret Joseph Ratzinger's actions, I'd like to hear it?

It is very sad but it must be admitted that his constant expressions of shock and disbelief in the United States, Canada, Australia and most recently in Ireland without his ever addressing the Clericalism that facilitated the enabling actions of a majority of bishops, gives little hope for any reform of the institutional Roman Catholic Church from the top.

The action must come from those who still believe. It must come from the People of God.

I recommend a visit to the American Catholic Council at -- www.americancatholiccouncil.org --

And to better understand the Irish influence on the Catholic Church in the United States read --

AN IRISH TRAGEDY, How Sex Abuse by Irish Priests Helped Cripple the Catholic Church by Joe Rigert and published in 2008 by Crossland Press.

Mary Cunningham says "The last case of abuse in an RCC residential institution occured forty years ago."

The fact that it has taken this long to uncover it should be a matter of shame to all of those involved.

And to risk Godwin's law - it is over 60 years since the last victim of the Holocaust was killed. Should we therefore dismiss it since it was so long ago?

Mary_Cunningham,

Your post seeks to undermine the excellent article by Paula Kirby through an appeal to a higher authority.
This appears to be typical of people who defend religion blindly and in my opinion highlights the less then transcendantal aspirations of the religous.
For a group of people selling the fraudulent idea of the overriding importance of "life after death", you are unusually keen on temporal power and institutional reputation. How ironic.

That the Irish state began to close down certain institutions may or may not be true but it is irrelevant to the tragedy. Anyone with human empathy can see that.

The catastrophic and intolerable behaviour of religous priests and nuns in Ireland is well documented and clear for all the world to see.
The mafioso style protection, misplaced priorities and deceptive even perhaps fraudulent behavior of the dysfunctional catholic hierarchy is also clear.

No playing with dates and statistics on your part will hide that.

History will be the judge of the benefits of catholic education and values. You can see that already from the empty seats and the rapid decline in membership.
An institution less sclerotic would take remedial action and change their products and market new services.
Unfortunately the catholic church cannot so easily change its dogma ridden package.
Too bad. The world will be all the better for its passing.

The pedophile clergy of yesterday have moved up the vatican ladder and are now the bishops and cardinals of today. The upper management of the RCC that are not directly complicit in the abuse of children can not act as they implicitly aided these child molesters by their inaction and silence. So a new generation of child abusers will make their way through the church hierarchy, and who would dare oppose them for fear of exposure.

Anybody who thinks that this is a recent problem, say of the last 50 years or so, is sadly deluded. As long as religion is given undue deference and is absolved from criticism, its power will be abused.

As Voltaire said, “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”

Never has this be made more evident than by the actions of the RCC with respect to the abuse of children.

This problem is as old as organized religion itself. It is only with the ascendance of secular human values that religion can be criticized without fear of retribution.

The solution will not come from within religion but from without. The light of reason will continue to illuminate the rotten core of religion and it will wither away.

It will not be missed.

It seems my previous comment has not been published. In brief, excellent article, Ms Kirby. Bloggers need to keep writing about the important implications of what the Catholic Church has done and will continue to do because nothing has changed in the structure that aided and abetted child abusers.

Excellent piece and very well written. I think it properly balances an obvious sense of outrage and anger with a forceful presentation of the sordid details.

I would have liked to see more focus on the role of the Irish State in all of this. This aspect was mentioned at the end, of course, and to good effect.

I don't believe the full extent of State collusion in the crimes of the Catholic Church has been revealed anywhere up to now and I think there is real scope there for an aspiring journalist to investigate this further.

Excellent article, Ms Kirby.

Yes, not only officials are denying and obfuscating the evil that the Church had done and will continue to do so because the structure that allowed the abuses to occur still is in place, but the rank and file is also in full blown rationalizing/denying mode.

They cherry pick reality and facts (apparently some church followers think the rape and abuse were masterminded by homosexuals as if homosexuals are equivalent with child abusers!) just like they do with their religious beliefs and their holy book.

I am at present boycotting anything to do with the Catholic Church (will give to secular charities instead, attend events like concerts at other churches, etc). In addition, I will not have any sustained relationship with a Catholic who has her head stuck in the mud of denial like a cowardly ostrich. I can understand a Catholic keeping their faith, but not challenging and trying to change the structure that aided and abetted child abusers I will no longer tolerate.

Bloggers need to keep writing about the clear points in which you have made in your article.

While mary cunningham may be an Irish Official (what exactly?) and may consider that she knows more than Paula Kirby, her comments smack of the institutional cover up that has been going on for so many years by the catholic church. There is no point in her saying that it was a relatively small number of children that were abused, one child abused is one too many and the attempted hiding of the abuse only compounds the actions of those that committed the original crimes.

This is most emphatically NOT an Irish rcc problem. There have been far too many cases reported around the world now for that rather pathetic excuse to hold any meaning. Where is the condemnation from the vatican, from the pope, from catholics worldwide? Their silence on this matter is deafening. The continual attempts to shift the story away from the abuse and the catholic church's complicity in the cover ups will in no way help to solve this situation and only make the church look even worse.

Long before he became Pope, Ratzinger was handling many of the affairs of the ailing John Paul II, although as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith he was responsible for dealing with matters of sexual misconduct. The knowledge of these matters therefore goes to the very top of the "heap" that is the Catholic Church.

In other abuse cases, he has sought to use diplomatic immunity to excuse himself from liability ( http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1589335.html )

"relatively small," in Ireland means just about the same thing as "relatively small" in the United States - that is thousands of abused children.

Unacceptable no matter the percentage.

The fact that 99 percent of cardinals, bishops, priests, nuns, seminarians or deacons were/are not sexual, physical or psychological abusers does not make what took place any more palatable.

Where is the outrage when it is documented that so many bishops were complicit in the ongoing sexual/physical abuse of children by the sins of commission and omission?

So is "an Irish official who knows more than Ms Kirby," saying that while England was phasing out such awful institutions, Ireland was in point of fact just starting up?

An abomination!

"I should also emphasise that the number of children effected by clerical sexual abuse in Ireland was relatively small and most of them came from poor backgrounds particularly those in the industrial schools. The fact is that most Irish people attended schools run by the RCC which were staffed by dedicated nuns and priests and where NO children were ever abused. The enquiries commissioned by the State indicate that clerical sexual abuse was clustered in three diocese and the sex offenders were mainly homosexual men attracted by the all male environment of the RCC which offered an escape from the homophobic Victorian value system that existed in Ireland before the 1980s."

There was, however, a coverup by Church officials in Ireland, and in doing so they broke canon law which states that clerical sex offenders must be brought before canonical trials so in effect it is an Irish RCC problem.

from an Irish official who knows more than Ms Kirby.

The Ryan Report: The Irish industrial and reformatory schools were run by Catholic orders on behalf the Irish Free State after 1922. These institutions invariably attracted paedophiles and child abusers who either worked as lay staff or joined the religious orders. The institutions themselves imposed harsh discipline and ultra conservative moral codes reflective of Irish society’s Victorian values ethos which lasted until the mid 1960s. The Irish State began to shut down the institutions in the 1960s the last being closed in 1971. Sexual abuse was common in the boys institutions where as girls suffered mainly physical abuse. The average annual population of these institutions was 6000 during the 35 years covered by the report. The annual average child population of the Irish Republic was 1.2 million over the same period indicating that 1 in 200 children were placed in institutions and exposed to abuse, but not all were abused.

The last case of abuse in an RCC residential institution occured forty years ago.

If Pope Benedict XVI was truly outraged and angered by the sexual abuse of children, young people, vulnerable adults and women religious in mission areas worldwide he would have removed the enabling and complicit bishops from their dioceses, he would have fired them.

What has been missing all along in this saga is any real sense of outrage or any real anger at what has been going on either from individual bishops or from the Pope.

This is the problem. The sexual abuse, particularly of children, has been going on for decades and neither civil or canon law has been followed by the bishops. That's factual and it has been documented at -- www.bishopaccountability.org

Indeed, the institutional church, the Holy See, should be prsecuted for what it has done and failed to do relative to what can only be described as Crimes against Humanity.

The system has failed. It has been corrupted at the most fundamental of levels and a completly new paradigm is needed to replace it.

Clericalism, that scarlet bond, has hidden, protected and enabled predatory priests in their perfidy and the many bishops who facilitated crimes and obstructed justice should be charged with those crimes. Many of them, though, have made deals to avoid presecution since 2002. That was a serious mistake.

Why is it that dioceses across the United States along with their state Catholic Conferences viciously oppose the passage of laws that would better protect all children?

Why have dioceses from Los Angeles, California to Wilmington, Delaware retained high priced Public Relations firms to spin the truth?

Where in the gospels does Jesus say go and hire PR firms to preach the Word of God?

Until and unless the systemic and endemic corruption within the institution is acknowledged and addressed, the institutional Roman Catholic Church will continue it downward spiral in both moral authority and credibility.

Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
Victims' Advocate
New Castle, Delaware
maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com

The psychology of denial runs very deep within the catholic church. I have witnessed at first hand the violence and abuse meted out to children by catholic priests at the school I attended. In their denial of sex they are eaten up and obsessed by it and its outlet becomes the criminal pathology accurately described in this article. The fact that they have negotiated immunity from prosecution is nothing short of obscene and shows that this church has a long way to go before it can be granted any legitimate place in civilised society.

I had a look at the two link's to the "Catholic Truth" website that Ms Kirby gives. I also read the Gerald Warner article in the Daily Telegraph to which the first link refers.

All of these sources exemplify Ms Kirby's contention, the attempt to divert blame to anyone else but the church and the unwillingness to accept responsibility for its actions.

All that is missing is a Swinburnian theodicy which claims that any less suffering would have given less opportunity for courage and sympathy

A tragic tale, and superbly written, Ms Kirby. Enough is rotten in the state of the Vatican for it to be completely dismantled, and its assets to be converted to compensation for its victims.

It is about time that religions were held to account for their actions. The law should apply to all, all institutions, whatever their size, their role, their history, should be subject to the law. None should be held in such high regard that they immune from criticism.

The two reports that Paula mentions are shocking to read. The abuse that these children suffered is terrible. What is far far worse has been the response of the catholic church and its supporters. The lies, obfuscation and cover ups are disgusting. How anyone can support an institution that has acted in this manner is totally beyond me. If it is impossible to prosecute the individuals who committed these crimes, then the church itself should be prosecuted, for aiding and abetting the crimes, for the obstruction of justice, and I would hope that the punishment levied on it would be enough to bring it to its knees. It does not deserve to carry on existing in its present form.