Seize the day

One common trait among atheists I've noted: A singular lack of imagination.
Here Ms Kirby spends a lot of words illustrating her theory that heaven can't exist simply because she can't imagine it.

How sad for Ms Kirby.

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…that tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism….

Just posted:

CONCEPTS + LOGIC = KNOWLEDGE, by Blacksun
MAN AND REASON, by Randall Duncan
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http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

“The only way to cure the cancer of Catholicism, and stop the pedophilia, is to begin each ceremony of ordination to the deaconate with castration.”

Life is eternal but cyclic, just like almost every other observable natural phenomenon in the universe. Lying between the odd notion of Christians and the eternal unchanging eternity and the atheist belief in oblivion lies the Buddhist concept of rebirth.

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A new blog tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism….

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God: Well, hello there! I understand you were an atheist. Is that correct?

Atheist: Yup.

God: Why didn't you believe I existed?

Atheist: Uh... well... First, I never saw anything that couldn't be explained by routine natural phenomenon. Second, the whole idea of you just didn't pass the smell test. Third, the world seemed a very miserable place for so many, so much of the time, I couldn't see how a god could have created such an unholy mess.

God: Well... you were wrong weren't you?

Atheist: Yup. Are you going to crush me now for being wrong?

God: No. I gave you brains and you used them. You, my child, are one of my success stories. Would you like tasty snack or a cocktail?

paula,
I'd like to see the figures on the number of souls present in heaven. I mean what would the estimate of the cumulative number of human beings to EVER live? If the current global population is almost 7 billion and there have been humans for over 150,000 years, what is the estimate of total humans ever? Now, what is the conservative religious person's estimate of percent that goes to heaven? By the way, the rest go to hell right? Limbo was struck out of existence relatively recently and purgatory is just heaven's waiting room. So all of these souls are deposited in two places that must be vast, enormous entities. Yet, we cannot detect them? How convenient. They also must be expanding as we speak...yet we can not measure them. Typical. Demanding proof of everything and everybody except themselves.

Some observations:

Heaven(if it exists) is a Spirit State as per Aquinas and JPII i.e. no bodies to include glorified bodies allowed. That sure puts the kibosh on Easter!!
The simple preacher man's spirit/soul resides in Heaven (if it exists) with all the souls of deceased good people of any religion or of no religion therefore there will be no second coming.

As per Somerville, “Religion is our vehicle for the journey. Once arrived, it will be left at the door” i.e. there is no religion in Heaven (if it exists).

The Holy Roman "Empirers"/Popes/ Kings/Queens et al continued the money grab selling access to JC and heaven resulting in some of today's
richest organizations on the globe i.e. the Christian churches and related aristocracies.

From Professor JD Crossan:

"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

Islam's reliance on heavenly angels and "demons of the demented" for authenication is coming to a fast close. As it does, Mecca will no longer be a shrine to these fictional characters and will simply become a historical tourist attraction. Maybe Disney will construct another Disney World there featuring roller coaster-chariot rides to the fictional heavens, a water park at the Grand Mosque along with a Hall of Religious Embellished Characters featuring talking figures of Abraham, Jesus and Mohammed and his eleven wives.

Paula,

I do have an additonal questions. What do you do to "seize the day" when you are in your eighth decade of life, living on a retirement budget that doesn't permit much travel, and don't have much family in the vicinity, etc.? Do you seize the day by hitting little white balls in holes, watching Dr. Phil and Oprah, escaping into fictitious stories in books and movies, engaging in small talk with friends? Perhaps when you are a little older you will begin to understand that there is not really much in the way of meaningful activity to seize. Life is pretty mundane for most of us.
You might then begin to see that almost all activity is escapism and has no real meaning. Yes, we try to make the world a better place for future generations, but to which generaton full fruition, to what end the progeny? Once that "better place" is realized what will our offspring occupy themselves with? Will they be like Nero, simply eating, drinking, and being merry?

Paula,

Like you, I am a former Christian. I'm agnostic when it comes to God, at least a bearded one that sits on a throne with a staff. I reject the Christian idea of a humdrum heaven and horrific hell. However, contrary to what you state, there is an abundance of scientific evidence suggesting that consciousness survives physical death. We don't need to identify or comprehend God to grasp that evidence.

The evidence comes to us through credible mediumship and the near-death experience. Yes, I know that the debunkers scoff at all that evidence and have theories to counter it all, but anyone who has really studied the evidence knows that the debunking arguments don't carry much weight.

Moreover, the evidence does not point to the humdrum heaven that you speak of. It appears that you have not gone beyond Christian doctrine and dogma in forming your view of things. The evidence suggests that there are many levels, planes, or realms on the other side and that we cross over with the "moral specific gravity" that we build up in this material life. It is not all about strumming harps and praising God. Unfortunately, space does not permit me to summarize what it is like. Moreover, since your mind appears closed on the subject, I'm sure you would smirk, sneer, and scoff anyway.

The Afterlife may be difficult to comprehend, but so is the Internet. Do you really understand how this message is making its way to you or where it is being stored? Does it exist somewhere when you are not reading it?

My point is, however, that you should not assume that Christian doctrine and dogma is the only scenario possible in the afterlife.

Long ago, I found out that memories are stored as chemical structures in our brains. The longer you live, the more of these you have to make if you want to keep your memories. Some fade out from disuse, others get destroyed by strokes and Alzheimer's. In an everlasting Heaven, you would need an infinitely large brain to keep your memories of infinite days. If we don't keep it all, our memories of lives on Earth are going to shrink to zero, and we would have no idea how we got there. Are there speed of light limitations in Heaven? If so, you might have to wait forever to remember something stored infinitely far away in the other lobe.

Also, as a young man I wanted to know how far back in Heaven my ancestors went? Sure, some of them would be in Hell, but ignoring the damned for the moment (the usual tact), we would expect our lines of ancestors in Heaven to converge at some point and keep going back. Who is our oldest ancestor in Heaven and why him/her? If some cave-person type, I am sure he/she was quite surprised to get there, given that no one else (but angels) was around at the time.

Excellent article Paula, the extract from Steve Zara's blog really brings home the stupidity of the whole concept of heaven. Who would really want to spend eternity worshipping anything, the sheer tedium of just existing for so long would have me screaming for non existence.

This also brings out the difference between atheist thinking on this life and theist thinking. As you so rightly say, as atheists we treasure and cherish this life, we try to make the most of it, we try to improve conditions for everyone because we know that this is all that there is. A theist on the other hand is quite content to leave conditions as they are because they believe that this life is pretty much unimportant, the important bit starts when you're dead.

As theists put so much store in heaven and look forward to it so much, why do they try so hard not to die? I mean, every hospital, nursing home etc. has lots of theists clogging up space, taking up the medical professions valuable time, expertise and money, all so that they can carry on worshipping here on earth. Why don't they embrace death and get this life over with as quickly as possible if they are so enamoured with this idea of eternity in heaven?

Just one last small point, in your list of things that make life worthwhile, you forgot to mention MARMITE.

Excellent post! The popular concept of heaven certainly seems more like what I would describe as hell. Great point by Steve Zara. Carpe Diem!

Seize the Day and make something of it, not effortlessly, but with struggle, building and creating, lives, loves and adventures. Exactly, Paula! This is what we evolved into and what makes us happy. And when we step back a bit we can see the brief span of our life is built on the life, love and adventures of billions before us,inching our starting point onwards each time, with the next inch, our bequest to those who follow.

In Heaven there is only one creator and he is spent. Game over.

This is a great article Paula (and Steve Zara!) The nihilist hell of atheism may exist in a few atheist heads, but mostly in the heads of the religious who may be becoming a little unsettled that far too many atheists are looking rather jaunty about their lot.

I predict, in 50 years time, now that psychologists have demonstrated that the slow achievement of our goals is one of the surest routes to happiness, and the religious realize the sheer aching monotony of ecstasy and the necessary snuffing out of their brains to accept it, the popular image of heaven may well start to morph into something more human.

Excellent! I'm glad you mentioned the "sophisticated theologians." The level of their sophistication seems to be "it doesn't make any sense, but we want it to be true, so let's make something up."