Religions need to live and let live

I love the fact that you deny my questions as bias. But that is ok.

Ayurveda:
http://www.ayurvedaacademy.com/

a discussion on assets of your church
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=16625

a little research and you'll see that much of the marble for the vatican came from pagan religions, lands were taken by armies of the pope, etc. (see parthenon in rome)

I do not charge that you do only this or that. I don't know you. But if you only count one or the other you err. On the other hand, you argued that if the church's behavior is seen then it is the best... I simply asked if you included that aspect of the problem. Since you do not know of the assets of your church, it seems that you are not in a position to justify a conclusion as to the behavior of your church since you don't have the proper denominator - just logic. Luckily for me I don't have a church.

If my suspicions don't matter, then neither does your judgment.

As to your church helping you and your people, communist china helps more people than the church has ever had. Nazis had social programs to help their own. Islam helps the woman being raped by islamists in Afghanistan. Aztec, I suspect, felt very protected by their Aztec gods. Ii am afraid your argument does not help define truth other than you, like others, perceive that the group you belong to is a good group. That does not proove the goodness of the group except as a local ideology. Just human nature.

I appreciate you feigned deference.

hariaum

Your 3rd paragraph on:

I totally agree... hands down here. HOWEVER, you seemingly purposely deceivingly failed to note that the very same guilty parties you charged in your 3rd paragraph, were the very same contributing factors that made a lot of countries and continents flourish, prosper and advance. Do consider that.

I sense that you are also guilty of what you accuse me of:

Counting just the NEGATIVES of the church/religion and discounting the POSITIVES.

FINALLY, on your last paragraph:

"So if you discount what other religions have done for the world, and discount what harm your church has done for the world, you will conclude your church is awesome. Now that is the TEST OF "TRUTH."

YES.. it is awesome because the church has/is helping me, my friends, my family and a lot of sick and poor people - both Catholics and non-catholics. It provides me and millions of people venues and opportunities to help others. Like what I said, THE CHURCH HAS SINNED through out the ages and it is correcting itself and its WRONGS. But you don't seem to acknowledge and appreciate that.

Go ahead, be my guest - BLAME ALL YOUR MISERIES on the RCC and all religions if that validates your being. If religion is all that evil, what were/are people like you doing watch all else fail? Please provide proof of efforts so I can correct myself.

NOTE THIS:

FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH, IT IS ENOUGH FOR YOU GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING... and your pure kind, seemingly DID NOTHING.

I thought you were respectful and educated but I sense your BIAS against the RCC and religion in general.

Looking forward to your links and information.

Enjoy the weekend!

Pacem Hodie!

hariaum,

Thanks for taking time to read and respond. Very very educated and respectful. Please provide links or post the sources of your claims. I'm (or we) are always open to facts and self-corrections. It's a great way to be ENLIGHTENED. Otherwise, it will be presumed that the your points are self-concocted.

You mentioned:

"How about a ratio of charity work to assets. Would that not be a better measure of Truth in action? I suspect nearly all of the other religions will lead in that ratio (if simply from the fact that the other religions were robbed of their assets by mono-ideologists)"

1. The thing is - nobody know the ASSETS (and worth) of the Roman Church. If you have information, please share to enlighten me.

2. In my judgment, your suspicion (see above) has no room in this discussion. I won't get enlightened that way.

3. You mentioned other religions were robbed by mono-ideologists. Please educate me/us. Provide your source. Would love to learn.

You pointed out:

"Do you only count the positive or do you compensate for the negatives in your calculation."

1. If you read again my post, you will read a rare CONFESSION/ADMISSION of a R. Catholic like me that the church has SINNED throughout the ages. So, on your charge that I ONLY count the 'positives'- you OUGHT to correct yourself. But if you want me to list the SINS and bad things the R. Church has committed, we should start a new blog. I don't appreciate your insinuation that I'm BLIND when it comes to the negatives.

On Ayurveda:

Never heard of it. Please make me informed. Also, provide a legitimate literature of your claim that RC, AC and Islam had a strangle hold on this practice so I can support it and be interested in the system. Hey, it never hurts to learn and understand new things.

To Be continued....

jbedia

do you only count the positive or do you compensate for the negatives in your calculation.

How about if the positives are actually the result of science that the RC attempted (and attempts) to squelch at every turn?

Science doubles and trebled life expectancy since modern medicine based on scientific method and evolutionary thinking. I agree that is evidence of science's truth, as you say.

Ayurveda is one of the few medical systems that directly comes out of religious ideology and includes ideas the modern science now recognizes like yoga, meditation, largely vegetarian diets, etc. Yes they were unable to propagate those ideas to the world until the strangle hold of the RC, AC, and Islam was removed, but now its getting out there.

Advaita is now reincarnated in unitarianism. Buddhism spread by giving individuals a way of living beyond the misery of their environment (and, relatively speaking, without violence or armies or popes or inquistions...) Christians controlled the political and social structure of India for 200 years, muslims controlled it for 900 and they could not get minorities (dalits) into positions of power. Hindus have controlled India for 50 years and have moved more in that egalitarianism then any other world leadership. Christianity and Islam have been in Africa for hundreds of years, do we see a result (or perhaps a cause)?

How about a ratio of charity work to assets. Would that not be a better measure of Truth in action? I suspect nearly all of the other religions will lead in that ratio (if simply from the fact that the other religions were robbed of their assets by mono-ideologists).

So if you discount what other religions have done for the world, and discount what harm your church has done for the world, you will conclude your church is awesome. Now that is the TEST OF "TRUTH"

hariaum

ON THE AUTHOR'S CLAIM:

"..continuous decline of Catholic Church membership in North America and Europe over the last several decades."

FACTS: There are more ROMAN CATHOLICS now than ever before (look it up). And to claim otherwise is laughable and self-denial. If I'm mistaken, please post your source.

The Roman CC may not be the TRUE CHURCH or it may have the NARROWEST of belief systems as the author unsubstantiatedly charged. But for a church which is deemed superficial and irrelevant by the author, and despite its SINS throughout the ages THIS ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH does a lot of good - to name a couple:

#1 The Roman CC is the SINGLE LARGEST care provider for HIV/AIDS

#2 The Roman CC is the 2nd biggest charity donor in the world. First, being FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS combined and 3rd, INT'L RED CROSS.

SO - before anybody belittles the Roman CC and diminish it's relevance in the world, one should ANSWER the ULTIMATE question:

WHAT HAVE YOU AND YOUR CHURCH/RELIGION DONE FOR THE WORLD? and compare it with what the Roman CC has done.

THAT WILL BE THE TEST OF "TRUTH"

Thanks for reading...