Pop Quiz: Who Would You Renounce?

I heard your interview on the Don Imus show. I thought you were very disingenuous about your religious believes. "I believe in magic...?" Come on!!

I grew up atheist because my parent never pushed any religion on their kids. Being atheist I do not think it is possible to "switch on" religion, as opposed to turning away from religion which is not that hard to do when you look at all the misery in the worlds, especially the misery caused by religion.

As a former atheist, you know there is only one doctrine .. randomness. Every day each and everyone of us can get killed by one thing or another. If 20 kids die in a school bus accident, it was not god, it was just the randomness of a bus driver falling asleep at the wheel (remember the case in Texas a few years ago?).

Randomness explains everything, including evolution.

It is perfectly o.k. for people to be religious in my opinion. Most don't know any better and many need religion. The work would be a far more dangerous place without religion despite some of the harm it causes.

And perhaps the best qualified person for a blog like yours is a compassionate atheist

But you should not try to come up with silly things like 'I believe in magic" or that praying means imagining an image of something. You don't have me fooled. You are still an atheist.

Paul

I heard your interview on the Don Imus show. I thought you were very disingenious about your religious believes. "I believe in magic...?" Come on!!

I grew up atheist because my parent never pushed any religion on their kids. Being atheist I do not think it is possible to "switch on" religion, as opposed to turning away from religion which is not that hard to do when you look at all the misery in the worlds, especially the misery caused by religion.

As a former atheist, you know there is only one doctrine .. randomness. Every day each and everyone of us can get killed by one thing or another. If 20 kids die in a school bus accident, it was not god, it was just the randomness of a bus driver falling asleep at the wheel (remember the case in Texas a few years ago?).

Randomness explains everything, including evolution.

It is perfectly o.k. for people to be religious in my opinion. Most don't know any better and many need religion. The work would be a far more dangerous place without religion despite some of the harm it causes.

And perhaps the best qualified person for a blog like yours is a compa

But you should not try to come up with silly things like 'I believe in magic" or that praying means imagining an image of something. You don't have me fooled. You are still an atheist.

Paul

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

No pastor is to live a lavish life. Also, anyone who claims to be a follower of Christ, whether you're a pastor or a disciple/christian/missionary/sunday school teacher (as we all have a ministry), you are not to love the things of the world, the lust of the eyes, the pride of life, which can be an assortment of things but where your heart is there also is your treasure. Greed, pride and self-servitude; all of which go against God's standards. Jesus said I did not come to be served but to serve. What about: you can't serve God and mammom (money, riches, covetous, idolatic hearts/spirits); you'll either love one and hate the other. Of course, I do not agree with the majority of televangelists that live these "over the top" lifestyles which make them look like pimps. In addition, I am an African American and I do believe that Jeremiah Wright is a racist, Michele Obama and Barack Obama are closet liberal, bitter, angry folk that claim to want change but I believe it's not what's really in their heart.

Okay, so there's tithing and collection plates in Christian churches. Is that money supposed to be used to build 1.6 million dollar houses and take lavish vacations, as Serena notes is the case with Wright?

What about her other questions? If he's so concerned with African Americans and Africans (Ethiopian Jews to use Serena's excellent axample), how come so much money goes into his well-lined bigoted pockets?

I win. Chuckle.

nice try but wright is a racist and hates whites. if he was a racist and hates blacks we would not be having this discussion he would be gone already and so would the canidate who said he had been his minister and guide for 20 years.

First, from some of the comments that just came in: Jerry Falwell is dead; he died last year. In addition, my interpretation and hermeneutics say that by their fruit you shall no them; those who truly belong to Him, not just by good works as we should know that faith expressing itself through love produces good works which were pre-ordained by God and faith expresses obedience to the word of God. In addition, as far as tithing, if we say we believe in God, and we know He is the supplier of all our needs: well then, our money doesn't belong to us: it belongs to Him: How does the church take care of the every day needs of the church w/out tithes and offerings. How do you care for those who are teaching Sunday School or working in the nursery; Where do the supplies come from? Also, Pastors who serve God by giving their life to the teaching of the gospel; how is the Pastor and his family supposed to live. Surrendered lives to God produces a amazing love for what He did for us in giving us life and everything we hold dear. I don't agree w/churches who insist on holding people up to maybe checking your W-2s to make sure your tithing enough. Malachi 3:6 8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty. 12 "Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land," says the LORD Almighty. 3 "You have said harsh things against me," says the LORD. "Yet you ask, 'What have we said against you?' 14 "You have said, 'It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the LORD Almighty? 15 But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.' " 16 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. 17 "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my reasured possession. [a] I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. 18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Also, regarding some of the comments that some Pastor make well some of them are biblical and may come off offensive but as far as Pastor Wright's comments using the G-damn quote is blashphemy; also, yes, there were some prophets, like Moses, Jeremiah, Nehemiah, Peter said some pretty wrath-filled words about the bondage and cruelty of God's people who were enslaved by the Romans but no where in the Bible did they lie about what was happening. Jeremiah Wright clearly stated that the U.S. Government put AIDS in the black community: where his proof. Also, if someone who is called by God prophecies something that is not true: well they are a false prophets...Does more need to be said...No...

Hi Liora,

No, I don't know. It's how they do. What can I say? But it's ironic that their New (sic) Testament talks about driving the money changers from the temple.

Ironic, isn't it, and we can't even bring money into a synagogue.

Don't get the whole thing, the racism, imperialism, religion of love rap. Never got it, never will.

Serena

Serena,

You are right from beginning to end. What I never really get is this tithing business. My Christian friends say they get letters telling them they haven't given enough, demanding more money, and then they have these collection plates actually in church, during services!!

And you know, some of my friends just don't have the money, and finally just stopped going to church altogether.

I mean, really, what is up with all this? Do you Know?

Liora

Liora

the one that intrigues me the most is the jerry falwell quote from probverbs.... i see the power and the truth of that simple trueism manifested in life all around me... if i understand jesus right he said to look for the fruit of the vine or the tree and the harvest provided by the seed that were planted and how they faired among all the different soil types and envirnments that they were release on and then you will see the hand of god and gods blessing.... telling me the final proof may be best seen after a time... iwould think the things he pointed out in other people paled when compared to the unchristian like behavoir of suposseded christian leaders with regards to truthfullness, fraud unnessisary violance perpetuated at the wrong people for reason more closely related to money changers than desiples... i cant help but wonder how a man could know the answer but not be able to see the truth right in front of him. maybe we as christians need to work firt on actually feeding the hungry sheltering the homeless and giving medical care to porr people and quit letting them dye and suffer from easily treated disieses. i think there is difference from socialism to the idea that helpless people should be helped by the people who are blessed and a society will nevr reach it potential until it has the contributions from all... of it constiuants.... God made people different with different weakness and streanth maybe so that we would alway know what it was like to feel grateful when someon does for us the thing that we cannot our selves do. when this happens people contribute to life when it doesnt people are alienated and predictably bitter and angry or worse boken and helpless spending all thier thooughts on things people should not have to even think of in our times..... how can i eat... where will i sleep... where can i find safe shelter... who do i go to with my sickness.... history has shown us these same people when alowed to contribute in the way they can not the way some beurocrat demand... them harmony and or wealth will be available to everyone. the people who need more money and power than they could ever use and still fight to others down are not christians... they are mentally ill... i call them social preditors because they live on the misery of the poor. who do things cost more when your poor in a christian nation i wonder... please open your eyes it too late for mr falweell.

Well, you know DIGI, speaking as a Black Jew, I am always interested in this Christian tithing busines, since your son of God did take issue with it, more specifically, with its being used to enrich individuals rather than help with the poor.

Now, your Reverend Wright is a very wealthy man, a man who is building a 1.6 million dollar home, a man who takes lavish vacations. His church explains that they want their ministers to retire well. Nice work, if you can find it.

But I notice that there are a lot of sisters and brothers who don't have any homes. I notice that my Ethiopian Jewish brothers, 100,000 of them airlifted by Israel out of Ethiopian hell need help. Israel needs help in getting the rest of them out. Air-lifting has slowed down because of Israel's declining economy. Everything has slowed down to their economic problems.

Some brothers and sisters are walking from Ethiopia to Israel. Now what with the good Reverend being so concerned about African Americans and Africans, wouldn't you think he could have built a home for say, 1,000,000, and helped the Ethiopian Jews a bit? Give a sister living alone with her kid here in the US a hand?

Who's the racist pig?

Sorry, my message got garbled. I was trying to figure out why one of my posts is continually being blocked.

What I meant to say is that Christian antisemitism in the Chrisitan clergy, though ancient, is always an interesting topic.

Christian antisemitism in the clergy is always an the Christian clergy, though ancient, is always an interenting topic.

The reality is that if Christianity were deflawed, these fraudulent men of Jesus would be out of a job and would not have a pulpit to expound from!!!!

Peter DC writes:

"Did the Nazi's do what you said, yes! Did we do a terrbible thing with slavery and the Tuskegee Airmen, yes! Have nations done terrible things in the past, yes they have! But now we have to speak and teach our children of unity and the benefits to society of diversity and understanding"

Your point is well taken. However, I must resprise what Josh said in an earlier post. The only connection between the 400 African Americans diagnosed with and left untreated for syphilis and the Tuskegee Airmen is the word Tuskegee, a city in Alabama.

Moreover, again,the men to whom Secular refers were not infected with syphilis, but diagnosed with it. When they were first identified, there was no effective treatment for the disease; however, not too long afterward, it was discovered that penicillin cures it. Treatment was withheld from these men by the government, one of several twentieth-century atrocities it committed against African Americans.

The Tuskegee Airmen, the WW II 99th Fighter Squadron broke the color barrier erected against African Americans serving as pilots in the US military. Their training was conducted at the Tuskegee Institute, hence, the name Tuskegee Airmen. They had distinguished, in fact, heroic military careers and continued success after the War. I had the signal honor of hearing some of them speak a few years ago.

What fun! A rhetorical question.

Repudiate all.

Sincerely,
Providence Candlelight

First off, it is clear that most of the bloggers have just a passing acquaintance with a church.

Obamas donations were not to Rev., Wright, the person - they were to the church and that is called tithing and offerings.

All Christians are required to give offerings and or tithes to carry on GOD'S work on earth.

Senator Obama gave money ( as did all the others in the church) to help carry out the charitable work of the church.

Stop trying to make it look like he shoved it in Jeremiah Wright's pocket...and stop being so afraid of seeing yourselves are you really are..the old sixties phrase was "racist pigs"

I mean, get it, Ed? It's like satire, it's like blues, it's like *punk rock,* yes, it's like Springsteen songs that literal-minded Republican candidates who don't listen too close like to use clips of to stir blind patriotism and fear in *others* who *don't listen.*

It's a problem of our soundbyte-taking sides culture.

There *is* patriotism in this song, but not blindly and directly, it comes through pain and challenge and a will to make things better: maybe few know this better than a queer Pagan chick who knows *all* about what religious voices to really worry about:

"Born down in a dead man's town,
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
Till you spend half your life just covering up

Born in the USA.
I was
Born in the USA."

Great song, that anthem. But not one of *blind* patriotism.*

One about carrying on *because* of a belief in America that goes beyond jingoistic flag-waving and ...empty blessings of obligatory public piety from those who *do* want to destroy America.

By telling you America is ideologically-easy.
By telling you America is a brand name with a Christian endorsement, whatever they do.

Or the other way around, who knows with these types.

I'm a Pagan, and I can understand that sermon.

Obama's not a robot programmed by it, anyway, as he's clearly shown.

But it's not that hard to understand.

Really.

1. Rev. Campolo was right in a sense. We have done more damage to our country and the Constitution than bin Laden ever could.
2. Dr King was right then and he is right now. We might not be the biggest criminals but we are criminals in the worlds eyes. Bush and his 'band of merry men' are war criminals.
3. Parsley claims to be a Christian yet does not follow the non-violent message of love and forgiveness that id the foundation of Jesus' teachings. Instead he wants to kill all Muslims.
4. Hagee is so full of hate and wrong about Hitler and the Catholic church conspiracy it is ridiculous.
The Catholic church has enough problems without having to make them up.
5. Billy Graham was a anti-Semite, Jesus was a Jew. Does he hate Jesus too?
6. Jesse Jackson is a politician not a true reverend. He is an anti-Semite, does he hate Jesus too?
7. By Falwell's reasoning 9/11 was an act of God to punish America. Therefore Osama bin Laden is doing God's will. Sounds crazy to me.
8. Why does Pat Robertson hate Hindus? Oh that's right, he hates everyone who isn't a white, hypocritical-Christian male. Was Jesus a capitalist? Do women really kill their babies and practice witchcraft in America?
9. Wright sounds crazy but he has some valid points. We do support oppressive regimes and have in the past supported slavery and Jim Crow.
10. Jeremiah was talking about Jerusalem long ago. Don't try to equate any of these preachers with Jeremiah.
Peace in, Peace out.

It is so encouraging to hear from wise men like Peter DC and Ed, who address Obama's 20 years of participation in a Chicago church with extensive programs to teach the untaught, house the unhoused, and feed the unfed.

Clearly, Ed and Peter base their opinions on listening to hours of Rev. Wright's sermons, and not just the 40 seconds that have played repeatedly on Fox.

Clearly, they are church-going men, who have managed to find a way to rebuke their own pastors in one-sentence phrases as they work they way through the line at the end of the service.

They wouldn't think to post without some background, now, would they?

Frankly, Ed, things said in a *lot* of Christian churches alarms me, ...but there's a difference between going a church where someone gave what they call a 'Jeremiad' sermon with some hyperbole against injustice, as opposed to being successfully-lobbied by people who want their Fundamentalist positions made government policy, as, say, McCain has.

Obama has consistently stood for his diversity and tolerance positions, whereas McCain has been visibly swayed by certain groups and their equally-inflammatory preachers.

I tend to believe you mean what you say and say what you mean, especially if you claim to be speaking for Deities, which you maybe shouldn't, anyway,

But.

The attempts at swiftboating over what's... a rhetorical convention in some 'black churches,'

...well, that's kind of like trying to hold me to account literally for the complete works of the Sex Pistols cause I like punk rock music.

I mean, actually if you get the context of that scare-clip people show to try and say Obama's not what he's about, the man's not trying to *actually 'damn America,' ..he's railing against false piety in the name of false patriotism, which we see so much of these days.

Finally got to read and hear that, and I was like, 'Oh, it's like punk rock can get.'

I really don't respond well to people screaming about Jesus and all, not in any way, really. I certainly approach my own religion with great sincerity and care with words and don't think that's the place for such sorts of expressions, but clearly that's what's going on with Rev. Wright.

As for what lobbying groups have actually gotten McCain to alter his positions in bad ways, yeah, I'm concerned with that.

Different matter than the scare tactics, though.

When another candidate sits in the pews of the other offensive pastors for twenty years and contributes 10s of thousands of dollars to same, you will have equivalence. Otherwise it is just an effort to obscure the issue of association with a man who preaches divisive sermons to large crowds.

That public dissemination is not equivalent to family misgivings around the dinner table either, as Sen. Obama's speech implies.

Some of them seem pretty innocuous.

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I don't find anything wrong with numero uno. I'm sure it's controversial, but I know I feel that way.

Well, it just goes to show that lots of 'religious leaders' have gone public with statements that many people would find offensive. But 'offensive' is often in the eye of the beholder. History is replete with examples of horrible acts against innocents in the name of one religion or the other: the Romans persecuting Christians, the Spanish Inquisition, the Puritans going after witches, the Catholics destroying native tribes to name just a few. I for one find them all offensive, but one must also consider the good that has been done by religious leaders and those who follow them. It could be argued that the good outweighs the bad. Bottom line, just because you attend a church that has a leader who makes occasional inflammatory statements does not mean you always agree. Each person must make their own judgments and be responsible for their own actions. It is how the individual chooses to live their own personal life that really matters.

I look forward to that glorious never-never day when politicians repudiate the support of all those enslaved to irrationality and superstition and especially the support of the clergymen who are pied pipers seducing the pitiable child-like side of desperate people's mentality.

I look forward to that glorious never-never day when politicians repudiate the support of all those enslaved to irrationality and superstition and especially the support of the clergymen who are pied pipers seducing the pitiable child-like side of desperate people's mentality.

Some people see Rev Wright's remarks as a negative for Obama. I see Rev Wright's behavior as a positive. It simply shows that Obama is not easily polarized. Preachers have been preaching hellfire and brimstone for a long time, many of them invoking godly wrath to be visited on whatever group or situation. Obama chose to identify with the loving and giving nature of pastor Wright, as opposed to his intemperate utterances.

Of course, Obama understands Black rage and disappointment. But there's not a hint of any of this type of feeling being expressed in any way by Obama, who came up in a very different environment from Wright.

The logic of Obama here is the same logic he displays when he says he won't ask for pre-conditions in order to meet with people who have said or done bad things. This is not a negative, it's a positive.

Hillary Clinton said "he would not be my pastor," suggesting that she would walk away from or abandon a pastor wright. She's also said she would require pre-conditions to talk to bad guys. 1) I don't admire that response because it demonstrates a sort of reactive posture, but more importantly, 2) she in fact WOULD NOT walk away. She showed her true self when she stuck with her husband after his behavior surely humiliated her and her daughter.

The point is, we are all saddled with relationships (whether we chose them to begin with has little to do with it) that are valuable for us, but where the other person has done or said things we don't like or are wrong. And just like Obama, we're unwilling to throw the other person away because of the things about that person we love and care about. Human relationships are not simple - that is the main point.

Well, so far, with the exclusion of the Prophet Jeramiah - and I'm not really sure how his words fit in to this - all you have named are tv hucksters and advisor to the son of man, Wright.

BTW, it is not Before Common Era - it is Before Christ. New age nonsense aside, that is the correct, time honored term.

Why don't you spend a little time in front of some truly spiritual men - such as Orthodox Christian priests, instead of trolling through the gutter seeking out some sort of straw man repudiation of Christianity.

I knew the answers but it was a good quiz for those who rely on phony religious leaders for guidence.

I think the real moral of this story is "Let he/she who is without sin, cast the first stone!"

What's so dreadfully wrong with the following quote? What Wright says here is really a matter of historical fact:

“We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye. We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America’s chickens have come home to roost.”

Ms. Quinn,

Your comment implies that Rev. Wrights comments can be forgiven because other religious leaders have said things equally or more objectionable.

THIS IS LUDICRIOUS! The moral equivalence here is awe inspiring. I assume, by your logic, that the leaders of the Rwanda Genocide should get a pass because theirs wasn't as terrible as Germany's Nazi regime?

We should condemn all of these statements, including Rev. Wright's. They were hateful, hurtful, and racist at their core.

You can forgive them, if you choose. That's a choice I reject.

Sally Quinn is not only biased toward Obama, she is atheist - enough said.

Secular- you like so many others who support Obama miss the point. It is his judgement in not moving away from Wright and for that matter his other minister problem, Rev. Meeks that is the problem.

You can't run on the idea of unifying the country and then claim these men as your close friends, spiritual counselors and mentors. If you do you have little chance of unifying anyone.

The reality is we have a racist nation, and we are also sexist and homophobic. But if you don't move away from the words of Wright and Meeks and those like them- you will never move beyond these issues.

Did the Nazi's do what you said, yes! Did we do a terrbible thing with slavery and the Tuskegee Airmen, yes! Have nations done terrible things in the past, yes they have! But now we have to speak and teach our children of unity and the benefits to society of diversity and understanding each other

Secular writes:

Have you heard of the Tuskegee airmen, case? In this case essentially black airmen of Tuskegee were purposely made part of an ongoing air force study about STDs. These pilots were recruited into the study without their informed consent. In fact without their consent period, informed or otherwise. Though it was not meant for extermination of the blacks, nonetheless no different from research conducted by Dr. Mengle on behalf of the Nazis, may even be worse. So my point is do not beat your chest in horror.

In a reply to your earlier post, I recommended that you attend remedial continuing ed. and critical thinking classes, albeit with your limited capacities, you would be unlikely to benefit much. I now withdraw that suggestion; please also ignore my explanations for how to search the internet for information.

It would be unethical for anyone to make such suggestions in a case so clearly hopeless as yours. The Tuskegee airmen were not recruited for that disgusting AmeriChristian "experiment." The fact is that four hundred Tuskegee African Americans who already had syphilis were given no treatment even after penicillin was found to be a cure. If you read my earlier reply to your previous post, perhaps you will understand how such a thing could happen. (Better yet, ask someone to read it to you.)

This is not the only hideous medically related atrocity the AmeriChristians performed on their African American co-religionists.

As for Mengele, my dear illiterate, there is no comparison either in terms of the numbers, or in terms of the activities. A lack of knowledge and a low IQ are a dangerous combination. A fourth-grade reading level and an eighty I.Q. would have been all you needed for you to learn about what the Christian Mengele did.

Regrettably, given your limitations, you may have difficulty accessing what follows below, which I was unable to paste as a link. It is the most simply worded description I could find on the Tuskegee horror. Please show the site name to someone with functional literacy skills, and ask him/her to explain the contents to you.

NPR : Remembering the Tuskegee Experiment

Also, this tw-faced girl as a god--- very foolish

Idol worshipppers

I see alot of foolishness on the blog, yet I don't see anyone answering the question "who would YOU renounce".

I say none of them.

They are entitled to their opinions.

If we let this adminstiration adn their views continue, we will be the the country we pretend to save. We would close the mouth of the opinionated. We would shut the door to people who don't look like the "old boys network" and we would put the death those who don't think along the Christian line of thought.

Sounds like oppression to me.

I demand true liberation. Free speech, free thinking - for everyone, not jus the majority.

Again, this country was built on the idea of hypocrisy.

You claim freedom, yet slavery was your highest commodity.

You claim freedom, yet you want to make Christianity the religion on the world.

You claim freedom for all, yet you pick and choose which country deserve to be liberated.

ANSWER THE QUESTION - WHO WOULD YOU RENOUNCE

I say, repudiate them all! I am without sin and will be casting the first stone. Please don't investigate me, though. Heh, heh, I'm sure you will be bored and won't find anything...

I just listened to another interview with a "war on terror" prisoner who was arrested, tortured and then held at Guantanamo for four years. I wonder if God is blessing America for its actions -- fully authorized by the Bush administration.

Billy Graham's secret sentiments toward the Jews is most appalling simply because he has convinced so many of his sainthood. Note that he didn't apologize for his conversations with Nixon until after he and Nixon was caught together. Unlike the Jewish prophets of old, Graham did not "speak truth to power". Rather he would go to any lengths to be seen in the company of the powerful.

I see nothing wrong with what was said but any of these leaders accept the racial slures that were made about Jewish people. What most of these men are doing is using scripture and making a practical application of it to fit this age. We want to cast doubt on this men for their beliefs.
This Nation was founded on Christian values and beliefs. The great seal of "In God we Trust" is stamped on our money. Some Atheist in the 60's wanted to remove anything that represented God even prayer in the schools and in Congress. These man maybe not all of them have a strong abiding faith in God just like the Jewish prophets in the Old Testament. I am not calling them prophets but their zeal for God is great. When a Nation's choice is to abandon the privileges and protection that God has given them by trusting in military might, wealth and rejecting God by leaving Him out of the affairs of government. These men are just revealing the truth of scripture. The name calling needs to stop. But a nation is damed to hell for abandoning God!

Rev. Hagee is obviously lacking education about the foundations of Christianity. The Catholic
Church is the ORIGINAL not imitation Christian
Church. The Protestant Church, arose from the belief that people should "sire" or create
male ofspring, regardless of the union/relationship.

Perhaps, he believes in the creation of FEMALE
SAINTS, LIKE SAINT MARY QUEEN OF SCOTTS, AND
SAINT ANN BOLYN. Several women were slaughtered
during a certain English Kings sexual exploits
when his EGO was seeking a male child.

"ALWAYS REMEMBER THE SOURCE". THE KING JAMES BIBLE, WAS WRITTEN IN ENGLISH, BECAUSE OF THE PRINTING PRESS.

THE " MORMANS ", OR
" THE CHURCH OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS "
" THE MORMANS " ARE MEERLY A RELIGIOUS CULT.

MARRIAGE HAS ALWAYS BEEN, AND CONTINUES TO BE A "MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE RELATIONSHIP" BETWEEN
A FEMALE ( a WOMAN, the Bride )
and A MALE ( a MAN, the Groom ).

In the eyes of the Law and God, only one wife and one husband constitute a marriage.

HOMOSEXUAL COUPLES, REGARDLESS OF ETHNIC ORIGIN,
OR FORMER LEGAL BATTLES BY PARENTS, ARE NOT
VALID MARRIAGES IF BOTH SPOUSES ARE THE SAME
GENDER.

Does Rev. Hagee remember the AWESOME GUEST
APPEARANCE BY AN AFRICAN AMERICAN ASTRONAUT
ON A TALK SHOW MORE THAN TEN YEARS AGO?

The Astronaut explained MARRIAGE:
"IT IS ADAM AND EVE, NOT ADAM AND STEVE."

All "NORMAL" CATHOLICS, WOULD AGREE.
A MARRIAGE IS A PROCREATIVE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN
ONE WOMAN, AND ONE MAN.

IT IS A MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE RELATIONSHIP, THAT IS NOT TO BE SHARED IN THE MARRIAGE BED, OR OTHER LOCATION FOR SEXUAL ACTIVITY, BY OTHER MEN OR WOMEN.

NOT BY RAPISTS, OR BOYFRIENDS, OR GIRLFRIENDS, OR SOMEONE ELSES HUSBAND OR WIFE, REGARDLESS OF THE REASON.

MARRIAGE IS NOT SEXUAL RELATIONS FOR THE PAYMENT OF A FEE. THAT IS PROSTITUTION, WHICH IS A CRIME.
////////////////END///////////////////////END///////////////////////////END////////////////END//////////////////////END////////////////END///////////////////////LAST///////////////////LAST///////////

It's good that you inject an apparently level-headed perspective, but doing so at this late date seems a bit anticlimactic. If I may make an analogy, it's like sweeping up the manure after the elephants' parade has passed by. Of course, it's good to recognize manure and try to remove it from the road, but the crowd pays attention as the parade passes. Perhaps a more noticeable tactic would be to stand in front of those elephants, make them stop, until the manure that they drop can be shoveled. That would focus the crowd's attention on how highly we prize keeping our streets free of manure. Of course, in my analogy, the street is our public discourse, the crowd is the ordinary public, the manure is demagogic language and propaganda, and the soiling left by neglected manure is the assault on common sense and dignity that results from such intellectual pollution. Thanks for pointing out the ridiculousness of the "repudiation" game. Next time, and there will be one, don't wait so long.

The truth will set us free ! Unfortunately many people are not interested in the truth that comes from an anaylsis of Dr. Wright's sermon when it is compared to and put in context with the words of others about the same issues he raised.
What is really telling of the ignorance of his critics is the lack of specificity in their declaration of Dr. Wrights words as "hate speech and anti-American." I have yet to hear any of the flag wavers and Obama haters say exactly what is untrue, unpatriotic or hateful about what Rev.Wright said. Ever heard of the 1st Amendment.

Blacks need to start taking some personal responsibility for high rate of high school drop out, sexual promiscuity, children born out of wedlock, , absence of male parenting/role models, drugs, crime, incarceration, AIDS, and lack of personal responsibility instead of playing the victim hood game and blaming everyone else for their plight! Until that time there will always be hate mongers & race baiter,s to use them and profit from their plight like the Rev. Wright, Rev. Jessie Jackson, Rev. Al Sharpton, as well as 10,s of thousands of White and Black Politicians. In fact the whole Democrat party! Hand outs, instead of a hand up, is the means of keeping Blacks down and economic Slaves! Keeping Blacks as an race of victims and believing all of the above is Whitey fault is designed to keep them from progressing instead of a race of achievers! It is in the best interest of Black preachers and Democrat politicians! Blacks will never be lead to the promise land by hate mongering Preachers like Rev. Wright or by bottom feeding Politicians that wants and works to keep Blacks in the Ghetto, on Welfare, and voting Democrat!

In response to Peter DC, MR.Wright's accusation to you might seem ridiculous, but is not without foundation. Have you heard of the Tuskegee airmen, case? In this case essentially black airmen of Tuskegee were purposely made part of an ongoing air force study about STDs. These pilots were recruited into the study without their informed consent. In fact without their consent period, informed or otherwise. Though it was not meant for extermination of the blacks, nonetheless no different from research conducted by Dr. Mengle on behalf of the Nazis, may even be worse. So my point is do not beat your chest in horror. YES INDEED THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, FOR THAT MATTER MANY A GOVERNMENT HAVE DONE THIS KIND OF STUFF BEFORE AND WILL DO IT IN THE FUTURE. Your indignation does not impress me, if anything just betrays your shallow cerebral shortcomings.

I agree wholeheartedly with Merrill Friend. It's a horrible thing to take the name of the Lord in vain and His world says that He will not hold those who do this guiltless. In addition, why is it that Jeremiah Wright is hold on a different level and it WAS NOT snippets. Again, He was interviewed by Sean Hannity in March 2007 (which I saw the entire interview), in addition, a Fox News network employer walked right into Trinity Church and purchased those "so called" snippets right from the Church's store. Let's hold all those accountable and stop picking and choosing. Again, do we teach our children that it's ok to curse a nation in the pulpit in the name of God.

For 1976 through 2005, the Justice Department reports that blacks, 12 percent of the U.S. population, committed 52 percent of the nation's murders and were 47 percent of all murder victims.
Until I heard the racist and anti-American tirades of Barack Obama's pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, it hadn't occurred to me that the murderous fires in the black community were being stoked from the pulpits inside black churches.
I wonder if it's ever occurred to Obama and Wright that it probably doesn't help young people in the black community when they're told that their country hates them, that the U.S. government gave them drugs and AIDS, and that jail and genocide are the officially-sanctioned plan for them.
"The government gives them drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America,'" shouted Wright at his congregation. "No, no, no. God damn America. That's in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
I wonder if Obama ever considered the negative impact on young blacks from listening to these hateful and anti-white tirades. It's not as if Obama is blind to the influence of hate speech. When Don Imus made one careless remark about black female athletes, Obama was among the first to call for his firing. Fines and a temporary suspension weren't enough. Obama said he wanted Imus silenced so that his young daughters never had to hear such language.
Does Obama think it's good for his daughters and the black community when black leaders increase the black community's level of anger, defeatism, paranoia, cynicism, negativity and pessimism? Does he think it's good to jack up the level of the resentment and racism in a community that's already overdosed on rage and victimhood?
"Recent statistics show that more than three times as many black people live in prison cells as in college dorms," reports the Lincoln Institute for Research and Education. "One in every 10 black men between the ages of 25 and 29 is in prison."
On top of being murdered, blacks are also "more likely than any other group to be victims of serious violent crime," reports the Justice Department, which is defined as "rape, other sexual assaults, robbery or aggravated assault."
And we need more ranting and raving, more boiling with rage?
Does Obama think it improves matters when black leaders tell blacks that they're poor, sick, jailed or hooked on drugs because of a government plot? Does it help to fix things if the choir is singing "The devil made me do it," the white devil?
"The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color," Rev. Wright preaches to his congregation. In America, he asserted, "no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."
The United States is "the number-one killer in the world," preached Wright, the "U.S. of K.K.K. A," a nation that only maintains its standard of living "by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty."
For 20 years, Barack Obama drank the aforementioned Kool-Aid, never seeing the problem. That makes him a problem.

I can accept a great deal that religious leaders say until they use Gods name in vain from the pulpit to curse anyone or anything. When they do this they defile the God they have sworn to serve and they are saying to all in their audience, including children, that such language is acceptable. Religious leaders should lead by example. I don't care for the example set by Pastor Wright.

I can accept a great deal that religious leaders say until they use Gods name in vain from the pulpit to curse anyone or anything. When they do this they defile the God they have sworn to serve and they are saying to all in their audience, including children, that such language is acceptable. Religious leaders should lead by example. I don't care for the example set by Pastor Wright.

contrary to what has been so widely reported, I do believe that most of #9 was not originally by Rev. Wright. if you go back and listen to that part of the sermon leading up to this quote, Rev. Wright was conveying to his congregation what he had heard himself on TV from an ambassador, who perchance, was a White man. but of course, when snipets are used, the real info always gets cut short!

Hmmmm. Thats a hard question but I'll give it a try. All of them. Organized religion is legal extortion in silk.

You have missed the point of the Jeremiah Wright controversy. First, Obama claims he doesn't need experience because he has judgement. His close 20 year relationship with Wright is a judgement call. Bad judgement for someone who wants to be president of all the people. Second, It is a close relationship, not a passing one that the others have had with the people you mention. Such as McCain, he is the one who called Fallwell the agent of intolerence. It is politics, not a relationship that has molded their ideas,lives, etc. Third, Wright's hate speeches shows the hypocrisy on the left. The left has continually criticized the religious right for hate mongering, but when it shows up on the left it is called a cultural thing that is good for the nation. Hate speech is intolerable on both the right and the left.

You have missed the point of the Jeremiah Wright controversy. First, Obama claims he doesn't need experience because he has judgement. His close 20 year relationship with Wright is a judgement call. Bad judgement for someone who wants to be president of all the people. Second, It is a close relationship, not a passing one that the others have had with the people you mention. Such as McCain, he is the one who called Fallwell the agent of intolerence. It is politics, not a relationship that has molded their ideas,lives, etc. Third, Wright's hate speeches shows the hypocrisy on the left. The left has continually criticized the religious right for hate mongering, but when it shows up on the left it is called a cultural thing that is good for the nation. Hate speech is intolerable on both the right and the left.

Secular writes:

10. Jeremiah Bigoted. By far all the patron saints of the old testament from Abraham, Moses on down were unmitigated scoundrels, bigots, & misanthropes. I do not for a second believe that such examples of human waste ever lived on this planet, but the characters described in those tomes are definitely can only be described as in the previous sentence.

The bigots were Matthew, Luke, John, Peter, Jesus, etc. They were also thieves and liars. They stole the religion of another people and used it to show that somehow their man-god "fulfilled it," that an entire people were mysteriously behind evil, that they were to be villified, that somehow those very people, under siege and largely impoverished could control the occupying Roman forces.

The christians were the inaugurators of racism in the west. Their "new" (sic) testament was the ideological foundation for imperialism and colonialism. Armed with this divine authorization, they established ghettos, conducted the crusades, took over vast continents, cut of the thumbs of Indians so that they couldn't make the beautiful garments tney made, sewed cats into people's bellies, and, of course teamed up with Adolf Hitler. I mean the last literally. The Vatican signed a document swearing alliegance to Adolf Hitler. Go to the Vatican web site and access it.

The Vatican gave nazis shelter after the war. Of course, it's not just the catholics, not by a long shot, who raped the world. But one can't cover everything. It's not only bigotry and hatred one finds in the new (sic) testament. It's a license to murder, torture.

Oh, and also for the clergy to rape little boys and girls.

Maybe its all that eucharistic cannibal stuff. Do you cross luggers eat the children too?

Blah, blah, polysyllabic BLAH.

Forget politics and religion; the thing that is REALLY terrifying here is the display of disgracefully inadequate grammar and spelling.

No wonder America is descending into mediocrity before our very eyes...

For all the thousands of comments left on the countless blogs in regards to Rev Wright...It's absolutley stunning that there are no Comments left here by the very same ANGRY people who are ready too point fingers and cast blame...Where is the same level of anger and resentment for these people? Is there none? Is John McCain not held to the same GOLD Standard? Is NOT BILL CLINTON?....Is this a double standard....The media is reporting this so the media is not holding the double standard....This articule has been viewed thousands of times....Why the Stunning Silence? Where are the Comments....Everyone must be watching the local news and pointing fingers at the Blacks, The Illegals, and any other plain problem that is troubling our country....

To be sure I should have said the Heirs of Uncle Ho.
Does it matter if they were systematically killed or just shot at random or drowned in leaky boats trying to flee for fear of being shot if they stayed? To be sure the NVA wasn't quite so ruthless as Pol Pots boys but perhaps that was just because they were more corrupt and had already had a surfeit of Blood when the took over the North in 1954.

Sally Quinn once again shows her bias to Senator Barack Obama but at the same time shows how superficial she can be.

When she says that Jesse Jackson was a spiritual advisor to the Clintons after Monica Lewinsky- the Clintons had a number of one time spiritual leaders that came in to talk to them. Clearly Bill, Hillary and Chelsea haven't sat in church for 20 years listening to Jesse Jackson's sermons. Maybe Jackson felt he could offer his services at the time of the Lewinsky ordeal because he had a child out of wedlock and cheated on his wife and could talk about some personal experiences he had in reconciling with his wife.

As to suggestions that Tony Compolos statment that we need to be vigilent in the long run about not undercutting our Bill of Rights to Rev. Wrights saying he thinks AIDS was a US government invention to distroy African Americans and that Americans were responsible for 911 is rediculous.

Sally Quinn has really become an embarassment to a lot of people who once thought more highly of her. Maybe these silly articles and pieces she is writing are just to get her name back in the news but they shouldn't even be published. I guess being married to Ben Bradlee guarentees that her gibberish will be published whereas if it was submitted anonymously it would be tossed in the circular file.

Here are my thoughts about each these folks

1. Rev. Tony Campolo Do not know about this guy enough to say he should be condemned or raised to high heavens. His comments sound quite profound and much to my liking.
2. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. despite his failings in the aggregate he was a one of the great leaders without a shadow of doubt
3. Rod Parsley sounds like a bigoted diatribe, still don't know enough to castigate him completely
4. Rev. John Hagee His comments quoted him may aptly describe the catholic church to a great extent, could have been done with lot less venom - same as #3
5. Rev. Billy Graham he of all the people who is much adored, never came across o me as anything more than a snake oil salesman. The utterances quoted here and others were not the ones made out momentary passion, but more of collected thoughts, this definitely meets with my condemnation for the entire body of work called his life.
6. Rev. Jesse Jackson Know enough about him to say he is a very flawed man, but does some good. He is a rabble rouser and sometimes goes too far. There is some possibility of him redeeming himself.
7. Rev. Jerry Falwell Bigoted to the core cannot find anything redeeming about him. CONDEMNED
8. Pat Robertson Same as #7
9. Rev.Jeremiah Wright Seems to be to deluded in his own experiences and cannot seem to get over that. Poor person to be playing the role he does. Glad to see him retire. Personally he should never have started.
10. Jeremiah Bigoted. By far all the patron saints of the old testament from Abraham, Moses on down were unmitigated scoundrels, bigots, & misanthropes. I do not for a second believe that such examples of human waste ever lived on this planet, but the characters described in those tomes are definitely can only be described as in the previous sentence.

By and large my thoughts about most of these religious characters is they are snake oil salespersons, preying on the gullible. Of course there are a few exceptions from time to time such as Gandhi, MLK Jr., Desmond Tutu to name most of them. I may have missed a few but not many.

It is not just a matter of denouncing. There is also the issue of endorsement. Giving alms to blasphemers is a bigger sin than silence.

And who first said these famous words,

"No one is safe until the koran is deflawed!!!

or these,

"After careful review my fellow Christians, it is apparent to my mind and soul that we have been fed significant mumbo-jumbo with respect to the life of Jesus.

Brothers and Sisters stop and read about the real Jesus. Develop the new view!!! Jesus was a simple, illiterate preacher man. The Beatitudes are pure Jesus. His giving to Caesar what was Caesar's is pure Jesus. The rest was embellishment upon embellishment of the life of said simple preacher man!!! The "miracles" were added to compete with the local "voodooers of the hoodoo", the resurrection was added to compete with Roman and Greek gods and the "pretty wingie thingies" and "demons of the demented added to continue the fear and superstitions of the ancients!!!!!"??????

made'em say that. And I'm gonna do it again. And they're gonna say it again. Chuckle.

The media should short circuit this manufactured non-issue by educating its readers/viewers about the nature and relevance to reality of RHETORIC, religious or otherwise. I would, but I don't know enough, just enough to be disgusted by this as a news story.

All this fuss about what some clergy are saying? How bout some concern over what some clergy are doing: continuing to hide child sex crimes.

David Clohessy
National Director, SNAP
Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests
7234 Arsenal Street
St. Louis MO 63143
314 566 9790 cell, 314 645 5915

Except when you don't know how to post a message.

YOU GO GIRL!

Great job of getting your point across.

We here in Detroit are dealing with a Mayor who is trying to use religion and race to keep his corrupt administration in office. He is doing so with the help of some unscrupulous ministers, so your point is well taken.

Thank You Ms. Quinn, Americans who value truth and integrity heard you loud and clear.

Makes us secularists look even better

sally,for your next project i'd like to see quotes fromm margaret sanger,woodroe wilson,h.g.wells,and professor singer at princeton.

Let me say a good word for Hagee. He is right about the Catholic sources of murderous anti-semitism in Europe. Just one example. Before 1933 the most anti-Hitler force in Germany after the Socialist Party was the Catholic Center Party. The Vatican essentially destroyed it and urged Catholics to support the right wing (including Hitler) in order to fight Bolshevism. The entire Catholic attitude towards Naziism and Fascism was one of anti-Bolshevism. Hagee may be an evangelical nutcase but he has got the Catholic church right on this issue.

The whole point of the original post is to show that a whole person cannot be judged by snippets of statements. The statements imply that that they are representative of that person's entire life (or book).

About 99% of these posts are worthless. They are worthless because they are in response to someone who shouldn't be allowed to make a post in the first place. The Bible says in 1 Timothy, and I quote, "Women should shut their faces and get back to making my sandwiches and babies."

Just kidding! (Or am I...)

Your missing a truly great hater when you fail to quote the Rev. Ian Paisley the Protestant Irish hate leader.

Sally, when oh when will you begin to understand the idea of faith. Hey, great photo op.

Fainally I'm getting it. The Washington Post is simply insane with hate for religious people...but hey; Sall, your photo opportunity is great...but where's the other guy?

Timothy writes:

In fact, most of the hue and cry over the Rev. J. Wright's comments was by Jews...
who, (like they did to Gandhi when he mentioned the violence by israelis, was fired....)
...was by Jews who don't like the fact, the fact, of their STATE (not only state sponsored) violence against the Palestinians being named.
Any mention of it gets hell raising and firingand censoring...as in Walt and Mearschiemer's book. By those who own America's media.
It is an outrage. The truth cannot be told. It's sickening.

1. Arun Gandhi was not fired; he remains a panelist on OnFaith. (CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF HE HAD SAID SUCH THINGS ABOUT THE CHRISTIANS?!)

2. You say that most of the criticism against Wright came from Jews. I certainly would have liked that to be the case, and I would have liked it to be much more vocally put. Alas, it fell short. But I leave it to your victim self to demonstrate your claim. Kindly prove your "point."

3. The only state-sponsored terrorism I'm aware of is that of the AmeriChristians in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither of those nations attacked the US, set off bombs in houses of worship, tortured and killed students and teachers, blew up school buses, etc., yet the AmeriChristians have slaughtered more than three hundred thousand of them.

4. Mearscheimer and Walt were discredited by academics of all faiths and no faith here and abroad on their lack of evidence. (You simply need to be able to type New York Times in the address bar. Next, press GO. Next, do another search using the names of said jerks. You can do that, Timmy, just like you can go to the main page of this blog and figure out how you can locate your fellow bigot Arun Ghandi.)

5. The Christians own the media. Sources for individual shareholders take work to access. I'm writing an article on it even as I write this to you. Still, anyone with an IQ of ninety could do the research. You, of course, don't have an IQ that high, but, perhaps you have an acqauintance who does.

Try going to your local high school continuing ed program for some remedial work, and a short course in critical thinking. True, in your case, they won't have much to work with, but even an increase of a point or two in your sub-sub-normal IQ might be worth the effort. Bigot.

Any who care to take issue with the Hagee quote need only get a copy of "A Moral Reckoning," by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen. Two popes and the Roman Catholic Church are guilty of the Holocaust. Hitler and Nazism was merely their catspaw...just as America was when Dr. King's "Riverside Church" speech explained from a Jeffersonian Whig perspective why we should not support Rome's slavemasters in their latifundial estate of Indochina.

Rome's Fifth Column assassinated him, just as they had JFK...six weeks after his NSAM 263 ordered our military withdrawal from Vietnam.

Jefferson knew Rome to be the "real Anti-Christ."

Who is still Roman Catholic in America? Can't get enough of that pedophilia?

Wonderful article. Thanks for shedding some light into this dark corner!

-pax

Ms. Quinn:

Putting Jeremiah on a list with Jesse Jackson and Richard Nickson, among others of their bigoted ilk, is close to insanity.

In the same spirit, or at least the best I can do to approximate it, I add this from anther secret guest:

He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life.

No real need for denunciation, just a bit of reading in antrhopology. (May I add that I have no prejudice against cannibalism? It's just not my thing.)

Get a grip, Dear. There was a time when you were considered a journalist.

It doesn't make any difference to me whether McCain repudiates the offensive statements of his spiritual counselors or not. Not only would I not believe him if he did, but the whole issue also appears to be nothing more than a classic Rovian diversion: divert attention away from the Hagee and Parsley endorsements and towards Obama's minister and, as an extra bonus, his race.

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if McCain sought endorsements from even nuttier religious advisers. When you're the presumptive Republican nominee staring down the enormous issues that this country faces, you want everyone's attention focused *anywhere* but on the last seven and a half years of Republican administration.

Oh Sally stop it.

I would like to know who that is commenting on this board has bothered to hear the sermons of Rev Wright? I would like to know if any of you knew that he has been a pastor and making sermons for 40 years...before that he was in the Navy and before that a Marine. No one would call him unpatriotic when he was fighting for this country.

Did anyone know that the clips played for weeks and looped together were from sermons 6 years apart...now if Rev. Wright's sermons were all so bad, why and who thought it worth their while to go through them to find what they could play with and make Obama look bad. Now who would have the most to gain?

Rev. Wright has a church that has many white faces in it..and has been a leading force in helping AIDS patents, helping the homeless and works every day for Social Justice.

Justice, something that seems to have been forgotten when it comes to what someone says that we might find objectionalble. I see people calling him a racist...so prove it. What has he said? I have heard and read his sermons.

I am not a Christian, I am Pagan, a Wiccan. But fairness and truth is the foundation that I live my life by, and I find most peoiple are always so ready to think the worse of people...it's so much easier then discovering the truth.

terra

GARYD, hi
Uncle Ho died in 1969, when we still had about 500,000 troops in Vietnam. There's no evidence, when we did leave - years later - that anyone was systematically killed. Quite the contrary.

Pol Pot, on the other hand, killed a larger percentage of his own countrymen than even Hitler. However, it was not our leaving Vietnam but our bombing of the Viet Cong, who were in Cambodia, which forced their retreat, that allowed their enemies, the Khmer Rouge, to take over that enabled the reign of Pol Pot.

Hope this helps clarify some fascinating history.

As an older white woman who grew up in the segregated South, I know from whence Rev. Wright came. Unlike the white pastors, he didn't damn humans nor did MLKjr nor Rev. Jackson (whose mild racial slur was aimed at a place.)

What distinguishes the white pastors is the targets ARE humans, which ought to trouble us far more.
But the old saw about minorities having to be twice as good to be seen as equal apparently applies.

Thanks, Sally, for offering some perspective.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 7:16
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

Sally quotes a Scripture to make her point.

Jeremiah also said:

THUS SAYS the Lord: Behold, I will raise up against Babylon and against those who dwell among those rebelling against Me a destroying wind and spirit;

And I will send to Babylon strangers or winnowers who will winnow her and will empty her land; for in the day of calamity they will be against her on every side...

O you who dwell by many waters, rich in treasures, your end has come, and the line measuring your life is cut.

The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself, saying, Surely I will fill you with men, as with [a swarm of] locusts [who strip a land clean], and they will lift up a song and shout [of victory] over you...

Now- that is a tale of woe..

Martin Luther said " We’ve committed more war crimes almost than any other nation in the world"

Martin didn't understand what righteous judgment means. If not for America, dictatorship or atheism will be the norm around the world. America broke European colonialism around the world.

He's a stupid person for saying that.

1.No American has demonstrably lost any rights.

2.Every time we failed to prevent the communist take over of a country or did nothing to prevent it millions were slaughtered. First Linen, Then Stlain then Mao, then Ho Chi Minh, then Pol Pot were responsible for more death than all the religious bigots in history. Uncle Ho and Pol pot were the only ones that didn't at least double Adolph Hitlers death toll and that's only because they didn't have enough human beings available to murder. Anyone who thinks it was not an act of righteousness to at least attempt to head off such a slaughter is either woefully ignorant, or very callous.

3.Islam has been at war with the West virtually since it discovered there was a West and the only thing that prevented it's victory was that the West changed It's paradigm of Governance and Islam did not. This allowed the West to greatly outstrip the followers Of Islam to the extent that by the time of The Napoleonic Wars barely a century and a quarter after Islam's last great roll of the die outside the gates of Vienna in 1683, Islam was so moribund technologically and tactically that the once mighty and greatly feared Ottoman Empire was but a shell of it's former self and could only resist western conquest when she was propped up by Westerners for their own political purposes.

4.That is almost comic relief given that the only real difference between the Roman Catholic Church's theology and Falwell's is the existence of the Papacy, a job that for all practical purposes Falwell essentially Usurped within his own congregation, by the way an apology from the Pope for centuries of exterminating non Catholic Christians would be appreciated if a bit too late in time to really matter.

5.He should have. Jews are far less of a threat to the country than leftists. In fact Jews are for all practical purposes no threat at all.

6. Jackson being Jackson. If memory serves he was involved in some manner or the other with Louis Farrakhan at the time a bigot and racist whose skin happens to be black that or a species of hypocrite.

7. Falwell as previously stated was a hypocrite and an ignoramus of the first water. According to the Bible if Christians were doing what they were supposed to be doing what the ACLU, atheists and homosexuals are doing wouldn't matter.

8. Typical Pat Robertson. All buffalo chips. As a general rule in Pastor whose show is on TV more often than Sunday morning is in my opinion a liar with no truth in him and ought to be ignored by sane people of whatever faith or no faith.

9. Lies damn lies and statistics. Not a single shred of evidence supports any of Jeremiah Wright's accusations.

10.That's prophecy and it happened Just as Jeremiah said.

Interesting to include the biblical prophet, Jeremiah: I suppose he is included, just in case we think this type of national chiding is new to us this day. It certainly has biblical precedent, and most of these preachers are probalby fully aware of that.
Two points, though: it seems Americans both right and left need to grasp how two figures considered evangelical/conservative Christians can both have said things seemingly quite different about Jewish people [Graham/Robertson], and yet both seem to have gotten nailed from the left. Also, that someone perceived as 'rightleaning' [Graham] can have said something as similarly un-PC about Jewish people as someone 'leftleaning' [Jackson].
Also, this timely article dares us to see the similarities between Wright [considered 'left' and now bewailed by self-styled conservatives] and Falwell [who is a sainted hero to many of those same 'conservatives']. I often wonder whether these kinds of 'consistency/inconsistency' points sink into the minds of the 'knee jerk reaction' crowds on either side of the spectrum. Thanks for the comparison notes.
Brett Huebner
Pastor
Zion Lutheran Church
Hillsboro, KS

Thank you for this "quiz," Sally. It's an eye opener. One of my high school students the other day said John Hagee was the greatest pastor alive. When I pointed out that the boy's Catholic girlfriend was hellbound according to Hagee, the boy was stunned. Had this kid never closely listened to Hagee's hatemongering?

On the lighter side, I was so jealous when you got to marry Ben Bradlee, the man of my dreams!

Excuse me, but what exactly DID the Rev.

say that is not demonstrably true?

Did we bomb Japan, for example?

Is the terrorism practiced on the palestinaians by israel NOT state sponsored?

In fact, most of the hue and cry over the Rev. J. Wright's comments was by Jews...

who, (like they did to Gandhi when he mentioned the violence by israelis, was fired....)

...was by Jews who don't like the fact, the fact, of their STATE (not only state sponsored) violence against the Palestinians being named.

Any mention of it gets hell raising and firingand censoring...as in Walt and Mearschiemer's book. By those who own America's media.

It is an outrage. The truth cannot be told. It's sickening.

to those on the right who like to insist it is all so different because "Obama listened to Wrights sermons for 20 years" you seek to make a distinction without a difference.

McCain said of Falwell and Robertson - there is an important place in the Republican Party for them.

Hagee said McCain actively sought his endorsement.

Parsley was called "My spiritual advisor" by McCain.

So when it is time to mobilize votes in November - what promises do you suppose Nutballs like these guys can wrangle from McCain - in exchange for mobilizing their millions? McCain, who says he "got the memo" on rounding up 12 million people and sending them out of the country? McCain, who changed his mind on the MLK holiday and the Confederate Flag - what do you suppose he will change his mind about when the Nutballs of the extreme religious right - hold those votes in their hands?

You think this doesn't matter about McCain? Then you must be one of those gullible sorts still looking under rocks for WMD's.

1,2,9,10 are courageous remarks. Truth.

The others are hypocrisy and speak to why America is today, in various complex and tragic situations.

1,2,9,10 are courageous remarks. Truth.

The others are hypocrisy and speak to why America is today - in various complex and tragic situations.

Apples and oranges, These were endorsements, Obama stayed in this church for twenty years and still will not separate himself from the Reverend.

Actually, I repudiate them all. Anyone who claims that an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent sky-god is sitting by in judgement deserves no less.

Religion is, and continues to be, the opiate of the masses. The longer you people squabble back and forth about whose idiot is less idiotic, is less time we spend as an actual advanced species, simply holding us back. Denounce ALL religion, and take hold of reality, and make it your own!

I have been voting for President for a good number of years now, and I never choose a candidate based on campaign promises, nor even on envisioned programs, which I might like or not like. And the reason that I do not pay too much attention to such things is because the President is not a dictator with unlimited powers to cause any whim, wish, or promise to be. The President must work with alot of people and under alot of constraints and who can know in advance how things will be? But yet, the candidate must say something, and so he talks, and promises this and promises that. If they do not deliver on all their promises, does that make them liars? No. It just means that things worked aout alot differetnly than they had planned. Isn't that how it is in all of life?

When I like a candidate, it is not because he makes some promise about gun control, or about taxes, but it is because of a whole trend of thinking and an almost mysterious, undefinable quality, that you either like, or you do not like. Between husbands and wives, between girl friend and boy friend, between friends and neighbors, between co-workers, you like one person, and then you don't like another person. Why? Who knows? It is too complicated to analyze.

When Reverend Wright's comments were made public, I did not automatically stop liking Obama. Instead, I worried that other people might stop liking him. But I kept on liking him, just the same as before. If you do not like Reverend Wright's comments, it is silly to make Obama pay. Blaming Obama for Wright's comments is just an excuse to justify not liking Obama, just as it is an excuse to blame McCain for the comments of some other clergy.

Blaming people for the thoughts and beliefs of others seems to be a new low in this world which I have come to know pretty well. I think, once again, this is a weird complication that results from mixing politics and religion. Many people assert flatly and categorically that a person's personal religious beliefs and faith absolutely must overlap into their public lives; otherwise, they would lack integrity. Yet, perhaps such people, just plain and simple, should not seek to be engaged in public life, because such a way of conducting oneself leads to more and more complications, and makes more problems than it solves, and causes more dissention than unity, and sets the many competing religious interests against each other. People who cannot understand this should perhaps avoid seeking political office, and should instead seek clerical positions in the church of their choice, or do some kind of misisonary work, in which they will not have a conflict of interest between their public duties and their conflicting relgious beliefs.

a message to ann:

this little exercise didn't seem to me to be an attempt to justify what wright said but to put his comments in context with the comments of many other religious leaders...many well respected.
my problem with the wright controversy is how conservatives are using wright's comments in isolation to justify attacking and bringing down obama.
that is the real sin.

This column reminds me of that typical teen-ager excuse, "But Mom, everybody else is doing it".

And as every adult (except apparently this author knows), the proper answer is: "But that doesn't make it right".

Citing ignorant comments to justify other ignorant comments is well, ignorant.

And who first said these famous words,

"No one is safe until the koran is deflawed!!! ?????????

You point the finger at others to justify what someone else said. Isn't this a little childish. You can finger point all you want but Rev Wright still said it. You can't sweep it under the rug.

let''s not forget that Mccain cravenly sought patch things up with Jerry Falwell AFTER Falwell had made his appalling remarks blaming America for 9/11.

Walt Jackson,

Please remember that the Wright comments that were published were a few soundbites that took about 15 seconds to read. Obviously he must have had other noncontroversial things to say the rest of the time.

I don't understand why the first quote is included with the others. It is an accurate and correct observation. Tony Campolo's comment does not deserve to be repudiated, and is entirely different from the others.

It disgusts me to read how some of the contributers to this blog have tried to make this article into some type of ploy to justify Obama's friendship with Jeremiah Wright. All of these phrases were offensive to someone and all of these people have backed political candidates. And, in reference to one writer's comment, yes, some have apologized for their statements, yet, unsurprisingly, the same drivel continued to spill from their lips, rendering those apologies meaningless. The purpose of this article was to address an important question--is it acceptable for ANY candidate to be affiliated with or seek or accept the endorsement of people who make controversial and offensive statements or harbor such beliefs. To see this article as anything but takes a great deal of ignorance on the part of someone who is afraid of the truth, fearing that they might have to find fault with their preferred political party and/or presidential candidate. A hateful statement is a hateful statement, regardless of the political leaning of the speaker, and anyone who justifies one over another simply out of political allegiance is a fool!!!

Although I strive to be introspective and circumspect, perhaps I have flaws that I can not see. For, I have found nothing wrong with the sermons by Rev.Jeremiah Wright. I did not find them unpatriotic or un-Christian. In addition, I beleive that part of the comments in this article are actually a quote that Rev. Wright was citing from a former US ambassador.

I beleive Rev Wright's words have been sampled and exploited in a malicious and untruthful way. I also think that those people who want to know the truth should watch the complete clips. I think those who view the tapes will find a message of love, unlike some of the other "guest speakers". Like MLK, Rev. Wright's message is fair, honest and not hateful.

All clergy should be renounced. They are ignorant men and women, the blind leading the blind.

Nice try but not sure what the point is because none of these folk damned America or accused the government of manufacturing the AIDs virus to kill Black folk. Trying to rationalize Rev Wright;s tirade against the US and Sen. Obama's decision to remain a part of his church for 20 years takes quite a leap of faith to believe he was unaware of his pastor's beliefs.

x:

According to your theory God must not be on America's side, "The Christian and Jewish God always sides with the oppressed." unless America is oppressed. I see. Sub prime oppression leads us to, "the Christian and Jewish God." I knew the being in the burning bush was behind sub prime oppression all along.

Sally Quinn, lonely liberal woman in the thralls of her Obama swoon. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why circulation plummets. What is it down this year? 9.4% ??? Keep it up Sally. We all know that a journalist is running Barack's campaign, although that is only part of the ridiculous censorship put forth on his behalf. Sally Quinn has found room in her heart for an Anti-semitic, anti-ITALIAN, anti-military, anti-US reverend Wright. Gotta love these guilty limousine liberals. They all seem to love their million dollar homes, they circle the wagons around their own, and think nothing of the elitist protection racket.

So here's what I think of the quotes:

1. very patriotic

2. very logical and wise

3. very warmongering and foreigner-hating, very KKK-esque

4. very much like a little child screaming 'look at me! look at me! i want attention!'

5. very Inquisition-esque and paranoid

6. just plain dumb - not really hate-filled, but spiteful and arrogant

7. someone who deeply hates America and longs for a return to pre-Enlightenment times before the evils of logic existed

8. very 'woman are only as good as dogs' (reminds me of that Doors song that goes "Women seem wicked when you're unwanted...")

9. very angry, but not all together wrong - seems like he has a reason to be angry

10. very biblical

How'd I do? Let's see... yep, all correct!

Quinn's blog just reinforces why religion and politics should not mix. (That's not to say pastors cannot speak on public matters, but it's so frustrating to see politicians suck up to these people; most of the time, it really doesn't help their careers.)
All this has done is create further divisiveness in this country, and that's the last thing we need now.

Many religious people are cloistered and sheltered and can think only in the extremetly narrow confines of their own personal religious heritage, be it from their own families, or from the culture in which they are raised. The Muslim and the Christian, stand up to each other as if peering into a mirror, and hold up their sacred scriptures, and pray to a god which appears in the mirror image of each, and bow down to their prophet or savior, which appears as the mirror image of each, and go to their houses of worship, and pay respect to their clergy, each an image of the other, yet neither comprehending their own reflections, like an ape who looks in a mirror, but does not recoginze his own image. Yes, that is what I believe!

People do not seem to realize where they come from, nor where their relgious belief comes from. They do not seem to realize that their religious heritage is provided to them by the previous generation, that what they may inherit at any given time in history, and at any given location upon the earth, is merely a setting, where the formation of an inner will comes into being, and operates to movitate their personalities, and that this setting is very different from place to place and from epoch to epoch, and is based on many, many things that have only a virtual existence, or said another way, have no existence at all, other than as markers, and interpretive categorizations within our own minds.

If you believe in God, and if you are a Christian, you cannot believe that any person "set" on this earth, within the "setting" of their birth can be any more or less favored by God, merely by the "accident" of their birth. And therefore, to assert and assume the superiority of one religious truth over another is absurd, and that there must be something more than such a silly way of looking at things.

I do not believe that all religious truths are the same, and I do not believe that "many paths lead to the summit of the mountain." I know people think that is what I believe, but that is not what I believe.

I believe that all of the "operational" or "proximate" experiences of human beings are coarse and unreliable when it comes to knowlege and knowing, and that there is an aesthetic of knowlege which some people seek, but which they may only occaisionally glimpse but never fully realize, and that there is the contrasting hum-drum surface experience of everyday things, which which we all come to know not very well, but "well enough," which includes church, and Bible-study, and different kinds of religous rituals and practices, and yes, even praying to an unknowable God which is, yet somehow, imagined, in order to regard as the object of thought and contemplation, this hum-drum world of ours which we do not know well, with its multiplication of reflected images, through the eyses of millions, that make such complicated and cacophonous variations to everything that we perceive.

why is this article not among the main ones?

Rev. Wright comments were filled of hatred, but they were spoken in defense of the weaker (as Jesus has taught us).

The white racists, Parsley, Hagee, Falwell, Graham, Robertson, preach hate and are actively involved in subjugating minorities and other cultures through actual violence (not only words)!

Jesus would forgive Rev. Wright, but I have no doubt where Parsley and co. are going to burn forever.

Renounce those who espouse hat and intolerance.

Renounce hypocrisy.

Celibrate self-examination, and self deprication.

Repudiate those who are full of hubris.

Celibrate individuals of humility and honesty.

Repudiate those who would meld church and State.

Repudiate those who sow fear.

Repudiate those who perpetuate a slave or victim mentality.

Forgive those who recognize their own hypocrisy to fight and denounce the hypocrisy of preachers who wrap themselves in a flag, and politicians who sell themselves with a bible.

I renounce:

Rev. Tony Campolo
Televangelist Rod Parsley
Rev. John Hagee
Rev. Jesse Jackson
Rev. Jerry Falwell
Pat Robertson
Rev.Jeremiah Wright

I celibrate:

Jeremiah
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

I forgive:

Rev. Billy Graham
Rev.Jeremiah Wright

Renounce those who espouse hat and intolerance.

Renounce hypocrisy.

Celibrate self-examination, and self deprication.

Repudiate those who are full of hubris.

Celibrate individuals of humility and honesty.

Repudiate those who would meld church and State.

Repudiate those who sow fear.

Repudiate those who perpetuate a slave or victim mentality.

Forgive those who recognize their own hypocrisy to fight and denounce the hypocrisy of preachers who wrap themselves in a flag, and politicians who sell themselves with a bible.

I renounce:

Rev. Tony Campolo
Televangelist Rod Parsley
Rev. John Hagee
Rev. Jesse Jackson
Rev. Jerry Falwell
Pat Robertson
Rev.Jeremiah Wright

I celibrate:

Jeremiah
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

I forgive:

Rev. Billy Graham
Rev.Jeremiah Wright

Now I need to go home and think...Wow!
Thanks

There's an old saying about the role of religion: "Comfort the afflicted; afflict the comfortable."

Rather than looking at these statements as contextless blurbs, why not look at who holds the power in the relationship.

The Christian and Jewish God always sides with the oppressed. Where there is injustice, God is with the downtrodden.

All of these speakers are emulating sentiments they have heard expressed elsewhere. Each of us has the same freedom to emulate sentiments. The question is: What sentiments do we want our fellows to hear? What sentiments do we want our current Gods to hear? What sentiments do we want to build our lives and the lives of our children on? Now is a time of serious division and doubt, a time for decision. What will you decide?

Is the purpose of this article to gloss over Obama's history with Rev. Wright? I don't recall that McCain or the Clinton family gave thousands of dollars to support any of the ministers that are identified with them in this article. Rev. Wright's remarks were not only lacked a respect for his profession, but also lacked respect for the people who lost their lives and their loved ones on September 11th. And neither did McCain or the Clinton family become a part of these ministers congregations.

This was a big mistake for Obama. And his whole rationale for voting for him is that he has better judgment than his opposition. He does not.

Whew! If ever there was a compilation of religious comments to make one's skin crawl, this is it.

Glad I'm an atheist. I just hope I have time to run for cover when they start rounding us up.

Let's see: Falwell, Robertson, and Graham all apologized for the offense that they caused by their comments. Wright and Jackson all blamed the Jew-run media machines for going after them and stand by their comments. Now you tell me Ms. Quinn, who should be renounced? The answer is obvious to those not blinded by ideological rage.

So what? Everyone says things that are offensive to someone (expect my mom, who is truely a saint). The one on Jesse Jackson isn't what he said, it's what he did (hypocrisy, thy name is Jesse). This is a mishmash of nothingness disguised as some type of journalism. If it is supposed to illicit some type of deeper, self inflection, I think we can see by the liberal's embracing the looney, self-loathing, and hate-filled screeds of Wright, Jackson and MLK that it has moved this issue not one iota. Another failed jounalistic experiment from a dying news magazine. No wonder your subscription base it bottoming out. Watch out Sally, some day you might have to actually get a real job if you keep killing WaPo with this drivel.

So what? Everyone says things that are offensive to someone (expect my mom, who is truely a saint). The one on Jesse Jackson isn't what he said, it's what he did (hypocrisy, thy name is Jesse). This is a mishmash of nothingness disguised as some type of jounalism. If it is supposed to illicit some type of deeper, self inflection, I think we can see by the liberal's embracing the looney, self-loathing, and hate-filled screeds of Wright, Jackson and MLK that it has moved this issue not one iota. Another failed jounalistic experiment from a dying news magazine. No wonder your subscription base it bottoming out. Watch out Sally, some day you might have to actually get a real job if you keep killing WaPo with this drivel.

May Almighty God who is slow to anger and full of mercy and grace help us all!

Whether leaning left or right (but mostly right) the religious figures quoted here surely ought to cause one to take even more seriously the Founders' preference that state and church be separated. A second concern is provoked by most of these remarks--the mental condition of those quoted.

Whether leaning left or right (but mostly right) the religious figures quoted here surely ought to cause one to take even more seriously the Founders' preference that state and church be separated. A second concern is provoked by most of these remarks--the mental condition of those quoted.

One thing we can say about all that is it was not inspired by a loving God that is the father of us all.

What seems to be missing from this stew pot is a handle where we can get hold of it. What does one say to those folks with their opinions besides I think you full of crap?

Ah yes. We could back away from the fray and ask the simplest question ever. Was that God in the burning bush for if it was not then there are two possibilities. Either the story is a hoax leaving faith without foundation or the being was a demon from hell. God can be ruled out unless we want to review God's specifications, maybe not loving, maybe not almighty, maybe not etc.

If we are to believe the experts about hell, that hell is pure chaos then the answer is clear. Moses made a deal with the devil to found the first two of the three great faiths. Odd how Parsley says the same thing about the third great faith -Islam was founded by making a deal with a devil, (same one as Moses?). The whole picture becomes crystal clear once one realizes devil and not god is behind religion.

It don't look all that good for America where 86% are practicing one of the three great faiths. And. Freedom of speech, with limits of course where the truth is banned as best it can be, allows all sorts of opinions to be aired but only those of the better class of people. Thank God for free elections else this wouldn't even be a democracy.

“The feminists agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”

Sounds like he took a look at the bulletin board at our campus "Women's Center" back in the '80s.

Why are comments disabled for Francis Collin's video.

That gullible fool.

Is there any Christian leader we can look up to that doesnt put their foot in their proverbial big mouth?
Ms. Quinn, if your point is to tell me that Christian leaders say things without being criticized for it, I would have to disagree with you.
Its common knowledge that the liberal press immediately lets its readers know when these idiotic comments happen.
What people are referring to with respect to Paster Wright is his message, SAID IN CHURCH, a holy place, that was clearly an anti-American POLITICAL message, not a religious one.
None of the others you cite made their assanine remarks while on the pulpit (except maybe Hagee)
The men you quote might have been making their stupid comments as private citizens, not spiritutal leaders.

ALL formal religious instutions and the cults that keep them in business are money making machines that do more harm than good. Take a look through history and see that religion is at or near the top of the list of reasons why people kill and go to war. Hate and intolerance using a book of fairy tales as your authorization to judge....what a joke.

The gifted scientist Francis Collins has it right. God chose evolution to design his masterpiece, creation, and the masterpiece of his creation, humanity.
I learned this 45 years ago in my biology class in my Catholic high school.
Collins gives voice to what is both profound and simple and has stood the test of time. It is a ready and telling answer to the atheistic fundamentalists who ironically refuse to let reason interfere with their biases.

you know and you would think this women would be smart enough to know this. you cant just take quotes, you have to put them in the time and place that the quote is given. martin luther king made is quote during a jim crow america. rev wright made his quotes 35 to 40 years later when there had been a ton of progress in racial matters in our country. he made his comments as if this progress didnt exist. that is the true defination of what a small man is. one that can not change the way one thinks in spite of the clear change in his world. the rev wright should not be defended. just let him slither away to his 1.6 million dollar home and get on with his life. maybe he can have coctail parties and invite elite liberals like sally quinn and they can laugh and talk and have fun with the realization of their own superiority clear in their hearts

I would repudiate #s 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8, while agreeing with 1, 2, and 9. #10 is more of a personal belief in the scripture, so that is more of a neutral for me, as it would be more a personal belief of each individual here. While I do not agree with it, it is much more of a personal order for each of us to either agree with or deny.

I think I like #2 the most, as it forces us to look at ourselves, and admit that America does have a past that is not the rosiest, and without looking at that, and admitting our own faults, and the faults of our leaders, then we'll never be able to really move forward as a county.

Yes, we live in a great nation, but it is NOT perfect. We choose to ignore that fact at our own peril.

All of this comments should be taken seriously and in historical context and discussed seriously in a critical way. "Repudiation" means very little without serious discussion and reasoning. For example, Obama has not bothered to spend any moment of depth discussing the issue honestly. This reveals a pursuit of pure shallow avoidance and an avoidance of the very thing he professes to have: new change-making leadership qualities.

I renounce all of them.

Who would I renounce? People from Washington. And politicians deserve a special place in hell.

Who among us, who are white, would ask God to bless an America which has been home to a bunch of white people responsible for slavery and its hideous fallout for three hundred or more years?

You say we are not all responsible (and we're not)
but neither Obama responsible for Jeremiah Wright's response to "God bless America."

America is a patch of land, it's the inhabitants who perpetuated the illness of slavery andcontinued Jim Crowe laws even until today. And the black is supposed to ask God to bless the people of this land. Think about it and what you would do.

But but...Rev. Wright is an angry black man! That's scary! And when I'm afraid I can be more easily manipulated!

Please, are there any ambiguously racist, crusty old white men to tell me what to believe? Help!

Upon reading all the blurbs, I believe it is in an individual’s best interest to limit the bureaucracy between themselves and God. (Stolen from Bill Maher)….

It looks as if Obama is the only one selected who should have repudiated what Jeremiah Wright said. Chances are, like the rest of us, he just sat through the sermons and pondered later what they were about as he went about his daily life. Truth to tell, Obama is no more responsible for what his pastor or any other pastor says than he is for those negroes who claim that all of America is to blame for slavery because the whites were able to go to school as well as participate in other activities not open to blacks because of Jim Crow laws.

It is just a way to electronically lynch Barack Obama even after the thorough explanation he makes of his religion experiences. These people who want him lynched really have no idea of just what segregation was about which is what Jeremiah Wright's blowup was about. So when Ferraro made the statement that Obama wouldn't be where he is if he wasn't black (as if someone was giving him something BECAUSE HE IS BLACK) was just too much given the discrimination of negroes in the American experience.

These same people who would lynch probably are the same ones who would have endorsed slavery and kept it going because they refuse to see the social mileau that has gone on. Truth is would a white person stand up and salute a group of people who are black and ask God to bless this same group of people. GET A LIFE AND GET WITH IT.

I am less concerned by religious leaders who "WANT to put Gay people in jail?". No Gays have gone to jail for living openly in America. (although open homosexuals have been publicly hung in Iran).

The religious leaders who are following their sacred teaching by encouraging the KILLING of Jews worry me:

HADITH Sahih Muslim [41:6985] Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

You and many other Obama supporters are constantly trying to excuse and minimize the statements by Rev Wright by somehow saying that they were equal to or just as bad as many other things some so called preachers have made in the past. That argument does not ring true to me at all.

If you take the one quote you have provided from Wright by itself it does not sound bad at all. When one looks at the many hateful and totally ignorant things Wright has said there is no comparison. Your inclusion of the remark by the Rev King is very disingenuous and misleading. I would not put King in the same boat as any of the other so called men of faith you have quoted.

Idiots are idiots, and need to be condemned no matter if they hide behind the robes of a man of god. Your attempts to minimize, deflect, and to otherwise excuse the statements of Wright by somehow comparing them to the statements of other ignorant preachers who also said some bad things, and worse to the Rev King, is not going to convince me or anyone else of the who was shocked and appalled by Wrights sermons of hate.

You judge the quality of the fruit by the tree it came from. In this case the fruit is Obama, the tree is Wright.

What about the people at the Falls Church, once a respectable organization, who now take spiritual direction from one Peter Akinola, a Nigerian primate who wants to put Gay people in jail? They seem more hateful and mysterious to me than Reverend Wright.

Good one, Sally! When I took this the first time I got 6 right. I guess I better brush up.

The larger issue is, of course, how preachers use the pulpit to help put out their agendas. This is not necessarily a condemnation of that. A large part of the pastor's job is to discern what the Bible is saying to people today. Many times they get it right; other times they may show a bias based on their personal beliefs.

We have all said things that we regret later on. Rather than throw a blanket statement condemning every preacher that said a careless thought, discern each saying first. Some people do have worthwhile things to say despite some foolish things said elsewhere.

The funny thing is there are two quotes i dont see too much fault in, because i agree with them. They had religious implications, but i think they came from the god of love not war. Though the language is very aggressive the message is their. Plus the two statements are interchangeable minus the chickens coming home to roost. Conservatives seem to love to condemn what their not familiar with, while being grossly offened when familiarities are attacked. Why is it that our government can't be challenged or questioned. This should be a non partisan issue, but its not questoning government has become uppatriotic, and that verges on a dictatorship. Too condemn Rev Wrights words and to hold Barack Obama Accountable for those words is to ask for corruption

I agree with 1, 2, and 10, and I sympathize with 9. Jeremiah Wright wasn't totally wrong in what he said, I just think he might have gone about saying it in the wrong way. I think many of the Christians who are angered by his statements need to consider whether or not they are practicing a syncretized Christianity that mixes faith with American Nationalism.

I think the leaders who made the other statements in this post need to consider where their motivation to say these types of things comes from, because they are surely not Biblical. When they realize the error in these statements, they need to repent and make any attempt they can to make amends for the damage they've done, as should every one of us who sticks his or her foot in his mouth.

On another not, I have a problem with the writing in this blog. I understand that this is a blog, but a journalist should know better than to take individual words and phrases completely out of context and inject commentary rather than simply let the full quotes speak for themselves (in the case of the quotes from Parsley, in particular.) Ms. Quinn may very well be accurately representing Parsley's statements, but the format she wrote them in is still poor journalism.

I like the comparison of these quotes, because it shows that these men are just as foolish as the rest of us. When we place an aura of respectability around someone just because they are Christian, we are creating a lie. Christians are no better and no worse than the rest of the human race, even when they lead megachurches.

It's an outrage that Obama's pastor, who has legitimate reason to be angry about the condition of the people he pastored, is demonized. Roberts and Falwell, however, who have been given everything they ever asked for and more by the political establishment, whose people are at the peak of political and economic power, are given a free pass.

There are the good guys-----and there are the bad guys---------and the good guys get to decide who's who"

I don't hear the Clintons or McCain denouncing any of their backers who have spoken in an outrageous manner. Oh, I forgot----maybe they are the good guys?

I don't disagree with #1, 2 & 10, so, no, I would not "repudiate" them. Name calling and hate mongering of "Others" are quite different from expressing an opinion that is critical of "Us".

Interestingly, the sentiments expressed in #1, 2 & 10 are quite similar: We are our own worst enemy; only when you are fair to others and stop scapegoating others and actually try to live up to your stated principles & ideals will you enjoy peace. Who could argue with that logic?

O renounce allpastors. Reverend Wright is just adds to by genunine suspicion that the world (and presidential politics) would be better served if superstitious hate mongers from the pulpit were banished.

The Declaration Against Genocide asks student governments and Muslim student groups to condemn Hezbollah and Hamas. They are encouraged to reject the saying of the prophet Mohammed that "redemption will only come when Muslims fight Jews and kill them, when the rocks and trees cry out Oh Muslim there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."

The Declaration affirms:

--The right of all people to live in freedom and dignity

--The freedom of the individual conscience: to change religions or have no religion at all

--The equal dignity of women and men

--The right of all people to live free from violence, intimidation, and coercion

You can read the

"Declaration against Genocide"

(just copy and paste in google search)