Obama, McCain, Palin and Religious (In)Tolerance

Intolerance goes way back as do poor examples of humankind: e.g.

"David Slaughters Them

"And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes..." (I Chronicles 20:3)

Comment
Chapters 17-19 (17-18-19) tells us that David killed 22,000 Syrians and that Abishai killed 18,000 Edomites. No one expresses shame at such slaughters.

Here in 20:3, we have David, counted as a great leader of the Israelites, slaughtering captives after the cessation of hostilities. From what high moral ground should we admire this action?

Decapitate Them!
"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'" (Numbers 25:3-4)

Comment
Those who worshipped other gods must die, and even more horribly, their heads displayed publicly. Either God never said anything so cruel, or we truly live in a cursed universe, ruled by a maniac Supreme Being.

Millions of people, today, switch their religions. If God had any interest in this ongoing process, there appears no evidence of this.

Gideon Slaughters
"And Gideon said, Therefore when the Lord hath delivered Zebah and Zalmunna into mine hand, then I will tear your flesh with the thorns of the wilderness and with briers" (Judges 8:7)

"Now Zebah and Zalmunna were Karkor, and their hosts with them, about fifteen thousand men, all that were left of all the hosts of the children of the east: for there fell an hundred and twenty thousand men that drew sword." (Judges 8:10)

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
INTOLLERANCE ON THE RIGHT:

IRT:
“Ignorance and intolerance of the faiths or lack of faith of others is a huge problem in a world … we must try to understand and respect beliefs we do not share as long as they are not imposed on us and do not infringe on our own lives in any way.”

ANS:
Abortion is a selfish egocentric ignorance imposed on the unborn child and infringes on its right to life. The abortionist is intolerant of the lives of these innocent children. Checking the record, Obama is an extreme abortionist rights advocate. So where is the radical left being tolerant of anything but their own egocentricism.

Forgetthis

Your true colors are showing. This election is all about race, isn't it? The white glow of the Republican Party is suddenly blinding.

Republican homophobia sounds weirdly remeniscent of racism.

"Those people."

"They're disgusting."

"That element will ruin your neighborhood."

Oh brother. What family values. What Christian love.

Dem. Cong. Jerry Nadler on Obama and Wright:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg1EpBa6Axg

Summary of article follows as such:

Obama/Biden good
McCain/Palin evil

True Summary of article follows as such:

Anti-semitism good
Kill whitey good
White woman being blessed by a Black African minister evil
Reaching out to religious leaders with whom you formerly and currently have major disagreements double evil

Sally Quinn, your slip is hanging.

Well I did go and read the text, and sorry but the implication is there. If you don't believe in Jesus, whether Jew or Muslim, what's happening is your own fault. Now let me be ite first to say that everything I know or believe about Jesus tells me that it is man who says these things. Not Christ. what religious extremists do is insert fear and politics into the messge of G-d, however you perceive him.

Personally I don't think G-d much cares how you come to him, or even if you don't believe, so long as you live by the Golden rule. Because I think it is very interesting how a man's teachings of love and law could have been so twisted into a weapon of hate and fear by those who claim the loudest to be his greatest proponents. I hear so many of you saying "What would Jesus do?" and I gotta say "Not what you people do."

And as a Jew, I know Jews. I am one. You aren't. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and has feathers like a duck- it's a duck. You are a Christian- what's the big deal about admitting it and being proud of it instead acting like the hybrid car of faith?

fr accountability_in_government:

>Get your head out of the sand.....see today's editorial in the Washington Times about Obama's record on Abortion...

Um, you'd quote a paper equal to the enquirer and owned by the Moonies?

Ms. Quinn:
I am a staff member of the Jews for Jesus organization. Since you "vote for tolerance," I need to point out that it is intolerant to reject the message of Jews for Jesus without knowing what we really believe. Most blogs and news services have quoted the same one paragraph of the message that David Brickner of Jews for Jesus delivered at Sarah Palin’s church, giving the false impression that he believes that terrorist attacks are God’s judgment on Israel for not believing in Jesus. Please read or listen to the entire message for yourself at www.jewsforjesus.org/blog/20080817 so that you can hear Brickner’s remarks in context. Please also take a look at Brickner’s comments concerning his message at Wasilla Bible Church, as well as interviews by Christianity Today and MSNBC with Brickner about this issue, at www.jewsforjesus.org. Among other things, Brickner says, "The comments attributed to me were taken out of context. In retrospect, I can see how my rhetoric might be misunderstood and I truly regret that. Let me be clear. I don’t believe that any one event, whether a terrorist attack or a natural disaster, is a specific fulfillment of or manifestation of a biblical prediction of judgment. I love my Jewish people and the land of Israel. I stand with and support her against all efforts to harm her or her people in any way."

sparrow4 : "You are so demented you can't even begin to comprehend how foul you are."

Seconded. Intolerance cannot be tolerated. Period.

Interesting comments for the most part... But calling the Koran the "worst book ever written" is exactly the kind of ignorance that this article was directed at (although personally, I would cite the bible as the "worst book ever written" - the death toll caused by the bible dwarfs that which the koran has managed to accomplish)...

How is it that these discussions always seem to devolve into a, "my imaginary friend is better than their imaginary friend" argument?

All of you religious folks still don't get it: You are ALL deluded - you have been brainwashed into living your lives according to fairy tales. God doesn't exist - he never did - and you are all wasting your lives.

Daniel,

*Toleration of others* should be in the frame of US Constitution,Contemporary Values and Rationality.
*Toleration* can not be limitless.

Based on the following, can we afford to tolerate Islam and its operating manual, the Worst Book Ever Written i.e. the koran??????

The Reality of Our War On Terror and Aggression and the Contemporary Islamic Effect

An update (or in other words, how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate Islamic global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and
recent body count all due the dictates of the the koran:

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens killed, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops (3,385 combat 800 non-combat) and 88,373 – 96,466
Iraqi civilians, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression vs. Islamic Elements:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world or is he!!!

4. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

5. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

6. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

7. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

" zjr78xva:

Sparrow, your litany of "facts" has been regurgitated and debunked so many times it's not worth the effort.

But to take one: Hagee was never McCain's pastor. McCain did not sit in a pew for 20 years absorbing Hagee's preaching."

Just can't deal with it, huh? I love how you bend over into hoops to try to excuse McCain's active seeking of Hagee's endorsement. Proved where those fact have been debunked. Show me where anything I wrote has been disproven. Cindy McCain's drug problem has been well documented. Everything else is documented and most if it is in the public record- so prove me wrong. Go through that list and debunk every association.

You can parrot the GOP party line on Wright all you want. Despite all your racist fears, the man is a Christian and a pastor. He has lived a far better Christian life than I am sure you and all the Hagees have. And he is a former Marine. When did you serve?

If your religeous beliefs do not allow for toleration of others, then that is a bad sign, and an indicator that you have gone off the tracks with your religious zeal, and that you may need to rethink what it is that you are engaged in.

People go crazy over religion and end up in psych-wards. All of the things that people are making up about Obama that are not true, I think, are ways to justify rejection of a black man for President without actually making the rejection a matter or race.

All of these "Christians" who seek to villify Obama, just don't get it, that this is a GIGANTIC thing that is happening; black people were good enough to build the White House; now a black family may actually get to live in it.

Palin and Dobson religious extremism are not compatable with tolerance. These so called "Christians" know they are right and others are wrong and there is no tolerance for any other way.
Add a dash of homophobia and racism and viola! Joe-the Fake-Plumber

Sparrow, your litany of "facts" has been regurgitated and debunked so many times it's not worth the effort.

But to take one: Hagee was never McCain's pastor. McCain did not sit in a pew for 20 years absorbing Hagee's preaching. Hagee did not perform McCain's wedding. McCain was baptized decades before he ever heard of Hagee, and Hagee did not baptize any of McCain's family. McCain did not base a book title on one of Hagee's sermons. Hagee did not inspire McCain to become a Christian, and McCain never claimed Hagee had personally influenced him in any way. In sum, there simply is no parallel at all with the vile Rev. Wright. Your motivation in bringing it up simply to blow smoke and waste everyone's time.

Americans must beware of the religious fanaticism of extremist christianity, and there absolute disdain of the American constitution and our democratic values. True believers insist sense of guilt, sense of sin, sense of the sacred, the sense another order of authority by which we are judged have been eroded by secular humanism, therefore there can be no tolerance for others and they wage a religious cultural war on our free American society.

Reaching out to extremist christians with the thought of co-existence, acceptance and tolerance is all but lost by these religious fanatics who seek moral justification in destroying the American democracy and legislating a christian state, these fanatics are the greatest threat to our national security and existence than any enemy on this planet.

Good luck if you can achieve tolerance from extremist christians who don’t even view non-believers as equal. Beware the cloak of goodness, evil has found a home.

Rather they can claim their beliefs are better but that doesn't make it true.

Religion's only place is in people's private lives, not in goverment. Separation of church and state. No one can claim their beliefs are any better than anyone else. To each his own.

"So let him win so the Dems would be wiped out off the globe."

You are so demented you can't even begin to comprehend how foul you are. You're just filth- ugly, disgusting, depraved, less than an insect filth. G-d don't like ugly, spidey. He don't like you.

I hope and pray not another republican ever gets into office again, giving you years of self-inflicted misery and fear. You enjoy that. Pain and misery is what you live for.

What a question

A reason religious that will make me vote
For one or the other that you all can quote?

Is there a reason for this one or that?
Does Silly think God wears an election hat?

Perhaps it can be that God can abide
More than one party on human kind's side?

Perhaps Silly Sally can stir up a fight
Especially since she gets nothing just right.

A vote for Obama is a vote for toasting the Democratic states in the U.S. in case a nuclear war ensues.

Barack Obama said he supported shifting federal resources away from an “unproven missile defense system” to proven technologies.[25] “I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems,” Obama said.

So let him win so the Dems would be wiped out off the globe.

We Republicans are SAVING YOR BUTT fellas.

Awwww. zjr78xva doesn't want to know the truth. He'd rather wallow in ideological ignorance.

Isn't it amazing, arminius, when you counter with facts to someone who wants to indulge in innuendo and mendacity, that the best they can do is say "You're really stretching?"

Hi, Sparrow,

A+ for accuracy!

You're really stretching, Sparrow, but C+ for effort. You're entitled to your views.

"Obama compiled the most ideological voting record in the Senate in his very brief time there. He lies about his background and long affiliation with vicious anti-American extremists like Wright and Ayers."

Look these McCain associations up and then come talk to us about ideological and extremism-

gordon Liddy

John Hagee

rev. Muthee

Mustafa Abu Naba'a.
Ali Jawad, a member of McCain's Michigan Finance Committee. Jawad is president of Armada Oil & Gas Company and founder of the Lebanese American Heritage Club. According to Jake Tapper at ABC News:
In 2002Jawad is quoted saying he "rejects talk that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization that should be shunned by the United States and other governments

Oliver North, John Singlaub and U.S. Council for World Freedom

Charles Keating.

Kemper Marley.

John McCain's friend, Marilyn Shannon, a Republican official from Oregon, once praised a woman who was convicted of attempted murder in the shooting of an abortion clinic doctor.McCain and Shannon appeared together at a fundraiser for the Oregon Citizens Alliance in 1993, a gathering of Christian right extremists that even fellow Republicans advised McCain not to attend because the group was so far outside the mainstream.

Alaska Independence Party - Joe Vogler, Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll (Palin and her husband)

Todd Palin was a member, for eight years, of the Alaska Independence Party, a radical group that advocates for Alaskan secession from the United States of America and is linked with radical secessionist groups, militias, and white supremacists groups from all over the country

Cindy McCain- stole from her charity to support her drug habit.

Obama compiled the most ideological voting record in the Senate in his very brief time there. He lies about his background and long affiliation with vicious anti-American extremists like Wright and Ayers. He's a former paid agitator and left-wing law professor who believes in income redistribution. Even as he tries to repackage himself as some kind of moderate, he advocates the unabridged hard left agenda, including the most extreme position on abortion of any national candidate ever. His cronies all are hard left ideologues. If he somehow manages to steal the election, Chicago-style, he would fill the judiciary and bureaucracy with extremely nasty people who'll make Joycelyn Elders look like a saint.

"Obama's inexperience and extremist ideology are two sound and decisive reasons to vote against him, before you even get to the subject of abortion."

Horse poop.

Obama inexperienced? Same experience as a guy named Abraham Lincoln.

Extremist? If he is, then call me one. He supports things like these:
Tolerance: see Jesus, 'Love your neighbor'.
Health care: Jesus did a lot of healing, as I recall.
Tax breaks for Middle Class/Poor: 'As you do to the least of you, so you do to me'. Jesus again.
Talk to Iraq: that dude Jesus once more, 'Love your enemy'.

Extremism. I love it!

I am still reminded of wise words written during a unification movement of the late 1800s here in the United States. A counsel binded an agreement concurring that all religious authority comes from the truth.

The concept of truth is universally accepted as the basis for unilateral negoiations. In practice, there is a process whereby trust is gained through open and honest frank discussion. I see it as formation of bonding between family, friends and communities large and small.

One does not need a religious affiliation to practice the truth. And that there are absolute truths or truths held in common such as: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal".

"Obama's inexperience and extremist ideology are two sound and decisive reasons to vote against him, before you even get to the subject of abortion."

Of course Obama is a complete moderate compared to a real right wingnut like Palin. for the life of me I can't imagine anyone calling Obama an extremist and accepting Palin. And would you like to talk about inexperience? Really- exactly WHAT extremist ideology do you think Obama espouses? Unity? Health care? Tax breaks for the Middle class? Getting out of Iraq? Bi-partisanship???

I never said abortion was not an important issue. I will continue to say that by bringing up an issue that is, at this point, irreconcileable, it only serves to divide us. We have done the best we can to balance the rights of mothers and fetuses, and we have had a full and fair hearing in the public square. It is now time to move on to other, more important issues...more important NOW. Health Care, energy, Iraq, UNITY.

To bring up abortion just poisons unity. ENOUGH ALREADY.

The Reality of Our War On Terror and Aggression and the Contemporary Islamic Effect

An update (or in other words, how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate Islamic global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and
recent body count all due the dictates of the Worst Book/SOP Ever Written aka the koran:

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops (3,385 combat 800 non-combat) and 88,373 – 96,466
Iraqi civilians, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression vs. Islamic Elements:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world or is he!!!

4. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

5. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

6. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

7. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

Obama's inexperience and extremist ideology are two sound and decisive reasons to vote against him, before you even get to the subject of abortion.

cclaxton, you say our disagreement over what you see as a relatively unimportant issue prevents our coming together on other issues you deem more important.

I don't know why that would be, but I gather that somehow it's my fault.

As usual, a rather innocuous article on OnFaith about religious tolerance (read, respect for others beliefs), quickly devolves into a sectarian brouhaha about candidate's records on abortion. The lack of focus, and outright hostility of some of these comments makes me sick.

The "real questions" were asked and answered in the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade and in the rulings on the right to privacy, which is a fundamental right. The court determined that the unborn were not protected. YOU don't get to redefine what the "real questions" are because you have an agenda.

I don't think that the pro-life movement should shut up and go away. But, the debate has had a full and fair hearing and, as I continue to say: IT DIVIDES US AND PREVENTS US FROM WORKING TOGETHER TO SOLVE OTHER MAJOR PROBLEMS THAT ARE AFFECTING THE LIVING TODAY. The debate about abortion is endless and DIVISIVE.

We have done the best we can at balancing the interests of the mother's privacy and the rights of the fetus without criminalizing people for making this choice. LET'S MOVE ON. ENOUGH, ALREADY.

Let's focus on how to unify our country instead of divide our country. Continually bringing up the issue of abortion divides us....and prevents us from finding common ground on other, frankly more important issues. We won't be doing any fetuses any good if we can't provide health care to the mother and the baby...we won't be doing any fetuses any good if we have a depression and we are living in poverty and have a toxic environment to live in.

For GOD's Sake! Get over it!

Stop dividing us!

Sparrow, we're talking about the living -- that is the point. If an unborn person were not living, there would be no need to kill her.

You are a living unique individual human person. Have you not been so continuously? "Unborn" is a stage in every person's development -- not a separate species or category.

"The real question is: When is it okay to treat a human being as something other than a human being?"

and when is it ok to treat a woman as an incubator instead of a human being. When is her sanctity of life, her rights and her right to privacy as important? Sanctity of life is not how you treat the unborn and unformed. It's how you treat the living.

cclaxton below claims that abortion is merely a private decision and that opposition to legalizing the abortion industry is merely a "minority religious view".

We've all heard such claims. But of course if those claims were true there would be no dispute.

The real question is: When is it okay to treat a human being as something other than a human being?

Of all human rights, for obvious reasons the right to life must be primary. To defend human rights, including the right to life, it is not necessary to subscribe to a particular faith, or to any faith at all.

cclaxton is weary of the contention over this issue and and wishes that those who speak out on behalf of the abortion industry's victims would just keep quiet and go away. Slaveholders and segregationists similarly grew weary of the protracted contention over those issues. They too wished that human rights advocates would just go away. But conscience will never allow us to go away, any more than those who struggled for decades against the evils of slavery and segregation.

Sparrow: Women paid an often fatal price before Roe v. Wade. It is clearly better for women's health to provide legal abortion.

Why does every religious debate have to end up being polarized about abortion?

Can't you see that bringing up the debate about abortion just serves to create partisan and religious bickering? It serves the evil of disunity...it serves to divide us...it serves to make the pro-choice side "different" or "sinners" or "wrong".

The choices YOU make related to sex and pregnancy and childbirth are your private decisions, and that is the way it should stay....PRIVATE. That is what Roe v. Wade is really about "right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment's concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is, or, as the District Court determined, in the Ninth Amendment's reservation of rights to the people, is broad enough to encompass a woman's decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy."

To impose a ban on abortion would be to impose a minority religious view on America and create a huge political war. Is that what you want for America's future? Don't we have enough problems just deciding how to provide adequate health care for all our citizens, and how to regulate our captilism in ways that keep it healthy?

Do people need to continually try and force an issue on the table that is truly irreconcilable in our political situation? If the court erred in Roe v. Wade, then erring on the side of freedom and privacy is the right side to err. Don't we have enough people in prison for nonviolent crimes, that we need to put women who got abortions and doctors who gave them in prison? This endless debate about abortion is CRAZY.

We have done the best we can at balancing the right of the fetus and the right of the mother (and father). Let it rest, and let's get on with the things we urgently need to seek common ground on: health care, the economy, jobs, oil dependence.

For God's Sake!....And, For OUR SAKE!

Sparrow wrote;" This is not my cathedral, or the cathedral of millions of other Americans. And to be accurate- it is designated a national House of Prayer for everyone"

I mention National Cathedral only because of its symbolic role in Washington - a house of prayer for all people which “can and should be made a strong spiritual inflluence both for the city and for the nation.” But it is an Episcopal cathedral and the seat of the Presiding Bishop who represents the Church to the outside world. In view of this, its decision to lobby publicly for retaining the partial-birth abortion procedure and, by default, "assisted suicide" not only reveals the Church's indifference to the fate of the unborn and the dying, but also provides an insight into what may in store for the country and especially for women, who are often the caregivers but always the mothers.

In this regard, Senator Obama's pledge to sign the Freedom of Choice Act would remove any legal restrictions to abortion-on-demand, leaving the moral and ethical questions "beyond the paygrade" of the federal government. Whatever one's views of the various religious voices over the years since Roe vs. Wade, we will certainly become a different nation should this occur and women will pay a price for it.

Ephesians 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Sometimes, we don't see what is right in front of us. When Evangelical Christians open their minds to the idea that we are ALL God's children, regardless whether we call our God Jesus, Allah, Buddha, or Brahma, that will enable them to show their charity, and tolerance becomes a natural behavior.

Ms. Quinn has helped us define the moral compass we should be using to be patriotic Americans. Her posting shows how the virtue of tolerance has grown to one of the core values in the USA. And, I think this is one of the subterranean reasons that Barak Obama is winning this election and why McCain is not.

The right wing of the Republican Party, which really controls the party at this time, communicates intolerance both in word and in deed. (Even if they try to appear politically correct) Whether it is pro-abortion (baby killers), African American (wrong race), Muslim (wrong religion), or socialist (wrong economics), or homosexual (wrong family), these kinds of labels are what drive intolerance and hatred, and even violence.

I remember a time when "Christian Charity" really meant being tolerant and overly kind to everyone, regardless their belief or their situation. How did the Evangelical movement forget that core value? How do they remember it and change their behavior?

When Obama is President, perhaps he will use his word and deed to enable the intolerant to change their ways. But he cannot do it alone. Each of us must use our words and deeds to model tolerance and to talk about tolerance as a core American Value.

Isn't that being a patriotic American? ...Helping to make America a better place?

Karl Rove has used the evangelicals as a weapon in America.

"So if you call yourself a pluralist, you can't claim to believe in Christ when Christ himself preached against pluralism. "

Jesus said no such thing. His followers said all that junk as they established the Church and then came the great schism, the reformation, etc.

I love yo people who think you can decide who is and who is not a christian based on your own beliefs. I'm sure Jesus would find it laughable, tragic and dishonorable.

In his very brief career, Obama has been rated the number one ideologue in the Senate. Obama's extremist policies and appointments would undermine the family, human dignity, freedom of conscience and religious expression, and free enterprise. And if that's not enough, Prof. Obama is a naive and foolish academic whose on the job training would endanger the whole world.

There is only one great man on the ballot, and only one qualified candidate: Sen. John S. McCain.

Catholics represent 1/3 of the voting public in the US, and I think it is past time newspapers and the media do their due diligence and find out what catholics believe and do not believe.

First, what catholic would run to an article written hy a protestant for religious guidance ( your reference to Obama's what?)

What kind of religion based on a Divinity would actually report and elevate statements of humans touting their own virtues or the vices of others?

Humans are not G*d and they do not decide on their own virtue.

catholics do not believe humans subsititute for G*d.

Catholics don't believe in protestant theology and really do not need instruction in these religions, all 10,000+ of them.

Why would anyone write a column about religious tolerance and insult 1/3rd of the population.

Take some time to know the basics of the beliefs of over one billion catholics worldwide.

Sally, is this the same kind of tolerance and acceptance of other views you are talking about when Obama kicks the Washington Times off the plane for endorsing John McCain? At least the plane was on the ground when Obama kicked them off. The only time liberals are tolerant is when you agree with them.

This is an incredibly well articulated editorial and I look forward to reading more from Sally Quinn. Mutual respect is key to the success of a pluralist society which we are by default.

Your ONLY problem with Obama is his church membership?

Get your head out of the sand.....see today's editorial in the Washington Times about Obama's record on Abortion....it is a comprehensive and accurate portrayal of Obama the so-called christian. He is, in fact, AMORAL.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/02/obama-is-a-liar/

Arminius,

About Pyramids;

Do you know Erich von Daniken ?
Thirty years ago,Daniken claimed that extraterrestial visitors(spacemen) came on earth and built the Pyramids,then many secular ones believed and discussed this.
He hinted(not hint,frankly said),Egyptians are morons and their ancestors couldnt construct(not only construction,even they dont know how the Pyramids built),so,the Pyramids were the works of e.t.(remember,later famous film e.t. made)

Daniken also asserts same things about Piri Reis Map and Easter Island Statues and Hedgestones.

If not for a Republican like Reagan who started the defense shield project, this counrty is toast. The Dems cut back on it. Im glad Bush got 8 years to finish the job.

The Dems are here again to dismantle it. Good for them coz they are toast. It just means the prophecy is accurate coz it says the Dems will be toasted.

Please don't call it intolerance. Im just saying "hey guys, smarten up. Your stupidity is killing you."

***

The next time some false extremist religious person bombs America, please be tolerant to him, OK?

After all, he is just believing some foolish religion just like the posters here.

Wake up, liberlas. There are things that are RIGHT and things that are WRONG. I don't know what kind of infection seeped into your brains folks.

Arminius, you're dreaming. The enemies of America might believe your false assumptions, idiot. It's the other way around. No country which will nuke U.S will survive but the U.S especially the center part (Republicans) will survive it.

We republicans are intelligent enough to stop it. Democrats are idiots. Im not sure if they can even press a button that would activate a defense shield.

Eliminate the paranormal in all religions/cults and there will be an elimination of intolerance and a rapid convergence of what few beliefs are left.

And no need for this WAPO blog!!!!

I was raised in a southern baptist church. Looking back at what I learned back then and where it is today I will always consider it pure American trash.

Good grief,does anyone on earth believe that Mr.
Obama denounced Rev.Wright or quit his
church than for any other reason than political
neccesity? If Ms. Quinn is so naive than the
Post's standards have truly slipped.

Now I remember while I stopped drinking kool aid, the Jesus brand. Sometime around 1992, it really started to reek like old dirty toilet water, brought to us by the new maters of deceit, the fundamentalist christian.

I'm not forgiven, I don't believe in original sin, the Bible is a fairy tale, and when I die, I'm dead and my ashes will be scattered in the Sierra Nevada. Therefore, I am a very happy man indeed for I have no fear, no guilt, and no regrets.

"When facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag, carrying the cross". George W. Bush was the carrier. He failed and this so did facism. Now it's on to better times. I couldn't be happier.

Now I remember while I stopped drinking kool aid, the Jesus brand. Sometime around 1992, it really started to reek like old dirty toilet water, brought to us by the new maters of deceit, the fundamentalist christian.

I'm not forgiven, I don't believe in original sin, the Bible is a fairy tale, and when I die, I'm dead and my ashes will be scattered in the Sierra Nevada. Therefore, I am a very happy man indeed for I have no fear, no guilt, and no regrets.

"When facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag, carrying the cross". George W. Bush was the carrier. He failed and this so did facism. Now it's on to better times. I couldn't be happier.

Now I remember while I stopped rinking kool aid, the Jesus brand. Sometime around 1992, it really started to reek like old dirty toilet water, brought to us by the new maters of deceit, the fundamentalist christian.

I'm not forgiven, I don't believe in original sin, the Bible is a fairy tale, and when I die, I'm dead and my ashes will be scattered in the Sierra Nevada. Therefore, I am a very happy man indeed for I have no fear, no guilt, and no regrets.

"When facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag, carrying the cross". George W. Bush was the carrier. He failed and this so did facism. Now it's on to better times. I couldn't be happier.

Now I remember while I stopped rinking kool aid, the Jesus brand. Sometime around 1992, it really started to reek like old dirty toilet water, brought to us by the new maters of deceit, the fundamentalist christian.

I'm not forgiven, I don't believe in original sin, the Bible is a fairy tale, and when I die, I'm dead and my ashes will be scattered in the Sierra Nevada. Therefore, I am a very happy amn indeed for I have no fear, no guilt, and no regrets.

"When facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag, carrying the cross". George W. Bush was the carrier. He failed and this so did facism. Now it's on to better times. I couldn't be happier.

Oh, yeah. Now I remember why I stopped reading this...

Quinn,

Obama claims to beleive in Christ. Yet Christ said "I am the way and the truth and the life. Nobody gets into heaven where the Father is, except through me." (John 14:6)

So if you call yourself a pluralist, you can't claim to believe in Christ when Christ himself preached against pluralism.

I want to elect a good civil leader to the White House, not a religious one. I would not elect my pastor to run the White House no more then I would choose McCain to be my pastor. I don't see McCain as a man of compassion or substance. He couldn't even run a sound campaign, how the heck is he going run a country under real pressure?

stop the presses ... first dick cavett ... then garrison keillor.. and now sally quinn writing columns about -- surprise -- whom they are supporting for president..

the drama...the suspense... the sheer unpredictability!!!

ok: can i have my cocktail party invite now?

"Fortunately for America, Obama is completely amoral, he is only interested in his own aggrandizement. This is good because if he believes that making good decisions in office will furhter his self-interest, then he will make those good decisions. If he thinks opposing good decisions like the invasion of Iraq (which Hillary and Biden both supported) is in his selfish interest, than he will oppose those good decisions."

And I suppose you think McCain, who has changed and reneged on every position and promise he has made in order to win this election is not trying to further his own slef-interest?

And Palin? A woman with no national or international experience, and who has used her position as governor to fire people, try to get people fired, give jobs in government to her old friends (Her secretary of agriculture is an old friend who likes cows- her only qualification), a woman so ambitious she didn't hesitate to accept the nomination despite a newborn with down's Syndrome and a pregnant teenager (both of whom she has paraded around to make herself look like a "Mom"- you think that woman is not acting in her own self interest? She's certainly not acting in ours.

Tonight I had to listen at church while the priest told me to search my soul about who to vote for. I know that the abortion issue is a heavy one, but I also know that millions of children throughout the world are dying because of Bush's wars and the intolerance of the religious right here in America.

Palin and McCain are neither religious or Christian by any stretch of the imagination, one only needs to hear them speak to know that. Now that they spew their hate and the only subgroup of the election that is voting overwhelmingly for the GOP is evangelicals and white protestants I have to ask myself what has happened to our great country.

There was a reason the founders wanted to separate church and state and the past 30 years have shown the reason why.

Sally, this is a fine, measured take on the public hysteria called religion in USA today.

But so long as religion is big business, the cynical swindlers, the kooks, and the loonies will run 'churches' in the name of total ignorance and intolerance.
The cat'lickers have of course over a thousand years head start on the others when it comes to channeling greed, and in fleecing the feeble-minded, but it seems like the different American 'preachers' are catching up, - very fast and very successfully.

"Obama, McCain, Palin and Religious (In)Tolerance"

Sally, do you suggest by your headline that you are tolerant in comparison to the benighted "(In)tolerant"folk above?

I've lived long enough to have friends of every faith and some with no faith tradition at all. We are all honest and live our lives according to high moral and ethical standards - because we can see no reason not to. We honor each other and respect that each human life is unique and different from all others. No matter how many like-minded others we surround ourselves with, we know that every decision we make is our own and is made alone in the quiet of our own minds.

Angry religious mobs acting out authoritarian group-think are the exception not the rule. These groups are incapable of the basic behaviors expected between individual human beings. Their members have needs and expectations that cannot be met through normal human interaction. Group membership permits the public release of and validates members' passions and prejudices. They believe that Life's a zero-sum game and they are destined to never get their fair share. They have been told or have made up the scenarios they need to justify their positions in life, their beliefs and their behavior. They see themselves in the victim stories of the Old Testament, the Koran, etc. In order both to protect and to make real these myths they've created for themselves, they must demonize and then attempt to destroy the members of an evil opposition. These groups are very insecure and must remain constantly vigilant. How very sad for them.

Sally says to us: "he later renounced his pastor's words and quit the church." - yeah, 7 years later.

Sally, I don't think Obama is a religious or ethnic bigot either. He uses those forces when they are convenient to him. He distances himself when they are inconvenient to him.

Fortunately for America, Obama is completely amoral, he is only interested in his own aggrandizement. This is good because if he believes that making good decisions in office will furhter his self-interest, then he will make those good decisions. If he thinks opposing good decisions like the invasion of Iraq (which Hillary and Biden both supported) is in his selfish interest, than he will oppose those good decisions.

By the way, Obama also thinks that mouthing words of support for inclusiveness and diversity are also in his selfish best interest. That's why you hear them. As for whether he really means any of it, who knows and who cares, we're probably stuck with him now.

Spidey needs to take this prayer, attributed to St Francis, to heart:

Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;
where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.

Amen.

Sally said
“I am for tolerance and plurality”.
I am also for those values except towards those who are intolerant of me and my values, not only in their original failed societies, where they are the majority, but in this country where they are an insignificant minority. A case in point. For seven years we had been asking this minority to have their religious leaders openly condemn the terrorism against almost all the rest of the world they call Jihad or Holy War. Not a beep!
A Jihadi terrorist shoots in cold blood three US soldiers standing at the corner of a street in Baghdad. No sooner had Iraqi High court convicts the assassin than the Council of Muslim Religious Scholars of all the Muslim countries suddenly materializes and condemns the verdict in the harshest language they could muster. Where have those turbaned Ulema been all this time? Does Ms Quinn expect me and others, who , believe in reciprocity, to be tolerant towards such groups? Maybe true Christians could but, I , for one, remain suspicious of their agenda towards me and my country until they prove me wrong.

Sparrow,

Spidey is most probably beyond any saving or salvation. But my Christianity gets in the way here, Spidey (in my view) is still a child of God, and at least deserves some compassion.

But yes I lost hope for him long ago. His bizarre beliefs, founded on hatred, trump anything else evil that I have witnessed in a long life.

arminius- there is nothing and no one to pray for. Spidey is a hollow box cleverly disguised as a username.There's nothing human or humane left about him.

Honestly what kind of human being thinks Americans will be saved according to party? what do you bet he has his little boxes of saltines lined up in the fallout shelter, next to the peanut butter?

Spidey is insane, pure and simple. Democrats will get nuked, and republicans will survive. Never in my life have I ever heard anything more STUPID.

Spidey is consumed by hatred and walks in darkness. Please pray for him. I do.

If not for a Republican like Reagan who started the defense shield project, this counrty is toast. The Dems cut back on it. Im glad Bush got 8 years to finish the job.

The Dems are here again to dismantle it. Good for them coz they are toast. It just means the prophecy is accurate coz it says the Dems will be toasted.

Please don't call it intolerance. Im just saying "hey guys, smarten up. Your stupidity is killing you."

The next time some false extremist religious person bombs America, please be tolerant to him, OK?

After all, he is just believing some foolish religion just like the posters here.

There are RIGHT and WRONG. I don't know what kind of infection seeped into your brains folks.

Arminius, you're dreaming. The enemies of America might believe your false assumptions, idiot. It's the other way around. No country which will nuke U.S will survive but the U.S especially the center part (Republicans) will survive it.

We republicans are intelligent enough to stop it. Democrats are idiots. Im not sure if they can even press a button that would activate a defense shield.

Eliminate the paranormal in all religions/cults and there will be an elimination of intolerance and a rapid convergence of what few beliefs are left.

And no need for this WAPO blog!!!!

Sally thinks Christians should tolerate killing babies .

Sally Quinn describes the dangers of ignorance, intolerance, and bigotry in the name of God. Humans, all to often, in the name of God, play God by defining those unworthy and seeking to punish them by words and sometimes by deeds. As a child and young adult I saw ignorance, intolerance, and bigotry attending church on a regular basis. As a tent revival escapee I never dreamed I might see ignorance-intolerance-bigotry incarnate and chosen as a potential Vice-President of the United States---chosen by an honored war hero who dishonors himself by his blind ambition or disgraceful cynicism.

Grolik,

*Is there not someone who is an actual believer in a God(any God)...*
1-If there is not anyone,what is correlation with Sally Quinn.
2-*....in a God(any God)* means there are many Gods(Yes,you are right indeed.From 12000 BP,when first temple built,to present day,there had been many Gods,Goddesses and Deities).
3-If you are a *christian*,you should believe in only one God.
4-Although *christian* is not wrong word,christians call themselves as their confession,catholic,orthodox,anglican etc.

Grohlic,
Please,dont do *fifth class polemic*.
Abortion is a Human Right(not woman right,yes,human right).Seven billion infants born,what happened ? and what would be if 7.001.000.000 born ?
Abortion is a Reality in Contemporary Life.You can not govern USA,or any country by the fifth class mentality and considerations.

USA is based on Contemporary Values and Rationality,not on religion/cult fanaticism,not on World is flat.

Grohlik- yep. we can add those terms to the list of "believe in the constitution, women's rights, equality and boy we gotta improve education in this country because there are some really scientifically ignorant people posting on these threads.

You ought to take a gander at webster's for the meaning of "liberal" and "conservative." count me and Arminius proud liberals. And what have you done for all the unwanted children born in this country?

Macho Liberals eh, Arminus? Well change is always interesting. Up to now the only humans who needed to fear violence at the hands of Liberals were their unborn young or people on life support who had the misfortune to infringe on the ability of a Liberal to do what they do best: please themselves.

And Sparrow? Since you're an Obama supporter I guess you are as great a proponent as he for letting a premature baby die if the mother wills it. I guess we can add "compassion" to the list of other Orwellian terms Liberals misuse, like "tolerance" and "diversity".

Sparrow,

Right you are, on Tuesday we will take back our nation from the power-mad and the bigots, and freedom will be restored.

Lest you losers get funny ideas, we ain't no bleedin' heart liberals. We are shoot-back liberals. Sometimes we even shoot first.

I will get up in the morning of Nov 5, and thank God that Americans can now once again hold their heads high without shame.

Sally's defense of Obama vis-a-vis his pastor is untenable. It is as if she believes that, over the course of twenty years, Jeremiah Wright's only anti-American tirades, anti-white tirades and anti-Jewish tirades came on the days those "snippets" were recorded. I know that Barack wasn't there those days, because he has been very specific - I wasn't there for THOSE "sermons", he has said.

The nuancing within that response tells volumes. It certainly invites further examination, but Sally and her comrades have neither the courage nor the inclination to go there.

Oh well, so much for the vetting of a preferred presidential candidate by the media. Guess its better to concentrate on a non-preferred VP candidate.

"Sally, is there not someone at the Washington Post who is an actual believer in a God (any God) to write for this blog? Having someone as hostile to Christians as you moderating this blog is absurd."

I guess you can't read. You and the few posters before you are perfect examples of what's wrong with mixing religion and politics. You, Mccleangirl, Chadboyer- your time is over. Your kind have done their utmost to ruin the country and pretty much ruin the world (That goes for religious fanatics of every ilk). Tuesday the people who have hope, who have compassion and who have a vision of a much better country go to vote. We're voting against the religo-terrorists in our own country, the morality hijackers, the "you'll all burn in hell" freaks , the racists,- in short, we're taking back the country.

Respond to this point for us, Sally: Senator Obama incontestably opposed the Infants Born Alive Act, even though the provision in it that protected Roe was identical to the federal act that he claimed to support. He is thus unarguably willing to allow just born premature infants to be denied medical attention so as to ensure their deaths. Have you ever seen a recently born baby, Sally? Could you sit by while she/he is denied medical attention, water, and food so as to respect the death sentence given by her/his mother?

I'm glad you have so much contempt for those of us who actually believe in God. It means we are complete opposites, which is exactly where I would like to be from you and your god, Obama.

Sally, is there not someone at the Washington Post who is an actual believer in a God (any God) to write for this blog? Having someone as hostile to Christians as you moderating this blog is absurd.

Sally, if you need an editor to glance over your essays before you post them, please contact me at my email address. When you email your work to me, I will fix it and email it back to you for $10. I take PayPal.

The same goes for any writer on staff at the Post.

MG

You will burn in Hell, Sally Quinn, Unbeliever!!! Burn baby burn.

You make a good point, Bob. The problem is when that religious belief is used as an excuse to shut out contrary arguments. I don't mind that George Bush thinks G-d advised him to invade Iraq, but I do mind that he seemed to put this delusion ahead of practical military advice.

I think or believe that agnostics [don't know ,not sure] and atheist [sure] should have a seat at the table of interfaith discussions. The problem I have with those that are so absolutely sure is their lack of tolerance for those who disagree. This lack of tolerance can run the gamut from shunning,disrespecting to demanding the death penalty for non-beleivers[and or sinners]. The secular can be as honest,charitable and law abiding as the deeply religious who can be mean spirited and more concerned with punishing gays then helping the poor which was the real mandate of Christ ss I recall from my years in Catholic schools.

I'm trying to understand how a person's particular belief (that God wanted the pipeline or wanted the US to go into Iraq) constitutes religious intolerance. If we accept matters like that as religious intolerance, then it is certain that no muslim could pass the simplest test of intolerance. For that matter, it would be almost as difficult for any secularist.

I guess that all one can do, is hope that enough of our fellow citizens are inclusive and choose tolerance over exclusivity and mindless bigotry. I wish I could say that of course they will. We will know Tuesday night.

Hmmm...
I stopped coming to On Faith because of the ignorant and repetitive comments. Things have improved a bit thanks to the new policy, but ignorance seems to be incurable.

I am not Sally Quinn's biggest fan (I can't get over the Russert funeral imbroglio) but she makes some important points here. As a Catholic I do wish there was someone who was willing to protect the unborn without being pro-death in so many other areas.

It's obvious that the only way we're going to get true tolerance is by electing neo-pagans to every office. In the meantime, I'll settle for a Christian with secular leanings.

As they say in my neighborhood, Obamanos.

"t is important to bring this forward for consideration, for Washington’s National Cathedral is an Episcopal cathedral which by its own description “can and should be made a strong spiritual inflluence both for the city and for the nation.” In this way, if we have a president Obama with his steadfast commitment to Roe vs. Wade without compromise, a pro-choice congressional majority, and an accommodating “church for the nation,”

Are you crazy? This is not my cathedral, or the cathedral of millions of other Americans. And to be accurate- it is designated a national House of Prayer for everyone, holding interdenominational and secular services. This does not make the Episcopal church the national religion. There is still such a thing as separation of church and state so get over the religious puffery.

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

As an older Episcopalian woman, I have concentrated on those writers who are Episcopalians themselves and have tried to raise the issue of the Church's political participation in the "culture wars:” specifically, the coincidence of April 29, 1996 when the Presiding Bishop signed an Interfaith Letter to Congress to retain the partial-birth abortion procedure, and the retired Bishop of Newark testified for legalizing “assisted suicide” before a House Subcommittee. This is a remarkable public witness from a church, but in the 12 years since then, these statements have been allowed to stand.

It is important to bring this forward for consideration, for Washington’s National Cathedral is an Episcopal cathedral which by its own description “can and should be made a strong spiritual inflluence both for the city and for the nation.” In this way, if we have a president Obama with his steadfast commitment to Roe vs. Wade without compromise, a pro-choice congressional majority, and an accommodating “church for the nation,” we will have an insight into the direction of some domestic and foreign policy issues about which Ms. Quinn is concerned.

dwinocca- and you don't see the very similar danger in so-called (at least self-described) "Christians" like spidey? frankly all rabid fundamentalist are of a piece. the details may differ but accommodating the likes of spidey and the religious right is no different than accommodating the Islamic right.

Pluralism and tolerance is a double edged sword. On one hand, it is inherent in our national character to be "accepting" of people of different cultural and religious backgrounds. On the other hand, we face a very real threat in the acceptance of Islam because of it's inherent threat to all other religions. It's teachings do not afford other religions the option of peaceful co-existence but calls for their anhilation. Western Europe, Indonesia and some African countries know this first hand. Islam has taken hold in these countries and is spreading causing a collision of cultures, religions and values. Accomodation to the demands of Islam are common in these places. So, while the idea of tolerance is a nice idea and seemingly virtuous, there is a practical side as well having to do with the preservation of our country.

Eliminate the paranormal in all religions/cults and there will be an elimination of intolerance and a rapid convergence of what few beliefs are left.

Spidey:

One has to ask who or what you are angry about? Your anger is disproportionate to, well, almost any imaginable source causing your anger. Who hurt you, and why can you not forgive them? You did read the part about he who does not forgive will not be forgiven, right? Do you recognize no fruits of the Spirit in other one billion members of the Catholic Church? Are you sure?

Remember that while the spider may get lots of evil bugs, the bug spray gets the spider.

Peace!

Spidey barfs again:
"America will be the last man standing. The only problem is, that is after a big portion of its population will be wiped out.
Mostly the liberal states."

Apparently Spidey believes in a flat earth, that little green men from Mars built the pyramids, and there is beachfront property for sale in Kansas.

Liberal states wiped out, and America would survive? What hogwash. Four nukes would have America not just on its knees, but prostrate. One each on San Diego (major port), one on DC, one on NYC. The fourth a high, very large, air burst over the center of the country. This would cause a huge EMP which would cripple all electronics across the land, even automobiles. Yes, our subs could retaliate - if anyone was alive to order the counterstrike. But our country would suddenly be a third world - hell, a fourth world - nation.

Spidey is an idiot. He is consumed by hatred, and walks in darkness. If you pray, pray for Spidey. Else, please pity him. He needs help.

Thank you, Sally Quinn. I think Thomas Jefferson had it right. He was a firm believer in Jesus Christ, but absolutely refused to be drawn into public discussion of the religious arguments of his days. Except, when it impinged on the Constitution. He would not bend to give voice to, or endorsement of, any particular religion under federal laws. He would not lend the prestige of his office, while President, to one faith or another.

Smart man. I certainly wish our current politicians were more like him.

kwilsher, where have you been? Can you imagine, your nails are growing without you controlling it?

Who made your nails, man?

Was it your mother earth?

c ya later guys

Actually DJMolter that is exactly what Christianity believes Jesus came back from the dead to say mine is the right way. Where we Christians get confused is that we think our religion, or subset version of the religion, is Jesus. It is not. Our faith is a mixture of the Holy Spirit working on us and a batch of rituals and beliefs that have been processed by flawed human beings. We should be on guard against our own opinions perverting what the Bible really says about Jesus. Working through this process is what real faith is all about. Tolerance, for instance, is not only American it also is what Jesus lived and preached.

No tooth fairy
No father christmas
No Gods!

Grow up all of you. There's no daddy in the sky. Stop wasting time talking about this and vote for the smart guy who can get us out of the mess 8 years Bush's praying got us into. You think Bush needed longer make his god answer?

Vote Obama - the smart one - I don't think he will wast too much time praying.

Great article, and I hope our country is on the road to greater tolerance. However, the radical forms of most major religions teach their believers that they are right and everyone else is wrong (and many of those radical sects think everyone else is going to hell). That type of thinking precludes respect for those who have a different approach. Our only hope is that people in those radical sects start to realize that while their way of thinking about what we can neither prove nor disprove is right for them, other people can have equally valid explanations.

Don't worry Arminius coz America will be the last man standing. The only problem is, that is after a big portion of its population will be wiped out.

Mostly the liberal states. Believe it or not.

You are so lucky you live in a Republican state. Thank them for your safety.

"I can't believe man can become that stupid. "

I can, after reading what you write.

A big 'thank you' to Spidey for proving my case. He has no answers for us. Worse, he has no answers for God.

Arminius, this is a public forum. Why would I say it in public? To give advance warning to America's future enemies?

I've tried to write the pentagon but they won't listen. That's their problem, not mine. Im not the one who would be caught off-guard anyway.

They were caught off-guard once. I think they like it that way.

Spidey is truly the poster child of Ignorance in Action.

He claims to know mysterious prophesies. Will he explain them? No. Because he can't. He is lying.

He claims to be an engineer. Will he tell us what kind of engineer? No. Because he can't. He is lying.

I think I heard somewhere that satan is called the 'Prince of Liars'. I think we now know which camp Spidey is really in.

It has taken a while, but I am glad someone is finally starting to question this erosion of the separation of Church and State. It has gotten to the point in this country where anyone who does not belong to and attend a Christian church (preferably Protestant) can't even think about running for office in many places. If this is the direction we insist on traveling, how long will it be before secular people and those who are not Christian lose their right to vote as well?

Because of the Bible, I know who are the future enemies of America. I can see how accurate it makes its prophecies. It's not called faith. It's called PROOF.

I've seen the truthfulness of the Bible. If you don't believe me, it's not my problem but yours, BIG TIME.

"and the crux of faith is that you must believe without proof."

Who told you that? You are lost, man.

reaping what? I am the one who feel sorry for you guys. I've already seen the script of the "movie". The script says that you guys will burn. Now tell me how do you think I should feel?

Im sad because you guys don't get it. Angry at the same time because of the sheer stupidity.

I can't believe man can become that stupid.

I find discomfiting any religion that claims to have the only key on the door to heaven. Therefore, I find most religions discomfiting. All religions are based on faith, and the crux of faith is that you must believe without proof. If any one religion had concrete proof that it was "the" way, there would be only one church.

It bothers me to hear Christian preachers such as Rev. Wright say that the government is responsible for AIDS. It bothers me that Muslim leaders pervert their faith's beliefs in order to foster hatred. (However, I will allow that Rev. Wright's examples of the treatment of blacks and American Indians cannot be refuted.) It bothers me more to hear Christian preachers say of the war in Iraq, "We are in a war for the soul of America."

It bothers me to hear Christian preachers define "tolerance" of opposing viewpoints as, "We're right and everyone else is wrong." Last I heard, no one had come back from the grave to say, "Christians are correct."

You believe what you believe, either because you have been taught to believe it by your parents or because you have studied the subject and find evidence in your own life that your beliefs are well founded. I am not against discussing different belief systems, but I do not want to be dragged into a situation where my beliefs -- or lack of them -- must be crushed and "proved false" in order for your beliefs to "win." I do not want to be forced to produce my religious "club card" in order to be thought a viable resident of America.

America was founded by those seeking religious freedom. The Constitution went to great lengths to avoid state-run religion. Let's leave it that way.

God is an examiner of hearts. How will Spidey explain his hatred to God? How will Spidey explain his ignorance of the teachings of Jesus?

Pray for Spidey.

Spiderman

I don't think you should comment on "tolerance" since you do not seem to understand what it is.

Besides that, why don't you vote for Obama? I think it would do you a world of good.

Why don't you give it some thought?

Spidermean2:

Sorry, but you are already living in your own narrow minded DOOM of hatred and intolerance. You are sewing what your reap right now.

Coloradodog,

"If they would respect the original idea of religious diversity in the US, we wouldn't be having these arguments and their ability to use religious intolerance as a Rovian political wedge issue.

Poor Jesus."

Exactly. Jesus wept.

religious intolerance? read this coloradodog :

The reason why islamic terrorists are bombing people is because they follow an extremist form of religion.

How do you tell them that it's false? Shall we "respect" their belief or say it to their faces that it is WRONG.

Does it mean intolerance when I follow the latter?

The good thing about Freedom of Expression is it EXPOSES STUPIDITY.

And guess what? The stupid will call you INTOLERANT, instead of calling themselves IGNORANT.

read it over and over, will you?

My understanding many British fled England and came to America because of religious prosecution and their inability to practice their religions freely there.

We now have the same thing being re-created in America where Muslims, Pagans, Jews, Hindus are faced with intolerance, hatred and sometimes even violence at the hands of Palin's and Dobson's intolerant white evangelicals who have an agenda to turn this Nation into their own private theocracy.

If they would respect the original idea of religious diversity in the US, we wouldn't be having these arguments and their ability to use religious intolerance as a Rovian political wedge issue.

Poor Jesus.

My understanding many British fled England and came to America because of religious prosecution and their inability to practice their religions freely there.

We now have the same thing being re-created in America where Muslims, Pagans, Jews, Hindus are faced with intolerance, hatred and sometimes even violence at the hands of Palin's and Dobson's intolerant white evangelicals who have an agenda to turn this Nation into their own private theocracy.

If they would respect the original idea of religious diversity in the US, we wouldn't be having these arguments and their ability to use religious intolerance as a Rovian political wedge issue.

Poor Jesus.

It is Spidey who does not believe in the Bible. A person who is a true Christian follows in the footsteps of our Risen Lord. He/she walks the walk. As set forth in the Gospels. Spidey knows nothing of this - all he knows is the 'end of days' hysteria. All he wants is to see millions swept into some lake of fire, all the while jumping up and down with sadistic joy, and probably having a sexual climax.

God is an examiner of hearts. How will Spidey explain his hatred to God?

yup, arminius. That was posted for you. A "christian" who does not believe the Bible? How ignorant can that be?

The real problem is religious IGNORANCE.

Exactly. The ignorance as so finely displayed by Spidey. It is a cancer in America.

Sparrow replied to Spidey:
"Let's make something perfectly clear, you little cockroach. You aren't fit to wipe the butt of Osama bin Laden, let alone anyone in this country. I was there,- you piece of subhuman scum. The dog who died in the towers on 9-11 was a better Christian than you could ever hope to be. And far more intelligent. You don't even have the brains to think up another insult besides "idiots." You aren't a few bricks shy of a load- you're a few DNA strands short of an entire genus."

ME: Sparrow, friend, that gains you 12 points out of a possible 10. I am humbled - and laughing a lot!

I agree with your decision.
Vote for tolerance and pluralism - both of which seem to be aberrancies in the McCain/Palin camp.
I would have voted for Palin if she was competing for being a cheerleader, but much more would be required of her than I think even she realizes - were she to be elected on the McCain/Palin ticket.

I'm not religious, but I've met many kind, fair-minded and tolerant people from across the religious spectrum.

Unfortunately, there are a few for whom religion is a club to beat others over the head with, rather than a motivating reason to love.

Sad.

I agree with this column. I still wonder why McCain never mentioned Jesus during his interview at Saddleback Church. I do know that in another interview, McCain said that his faith in America saved him. I have heard Obama's and Biden's Christian testimony. I am not really sure that I have heard McCain's and Palin's. Perhaps McCain and Palin believe that just because they are part of the religious right, people must know that they have one. I am part of an old-fashioned tradition that says that "actions speak louder than words." Hence, I find the actions of the religious right to be intolerant, hypocritical, and downright hateful, none of which are condoned by Jesus.

Excellent article. I'm Canadian, and our politicians for the most part value separation of church and state. Our Prime Minister, who I voted for is an evangelical Christian, but he NEVER wears his beliefs on his sleeve when dealing with his role as PM. He wouldn't be electable if he did. Canada is now 23% atheist.
The US has a lower percentage of atheists/agnostics, but I think it is around 15%. Funny though, they are not courted by US politicians, in fact, political leaders risk their careers if they even admit association with the Godless. Meanwhile, it is the Godless who will have the greatest affect on your Presidential election. Even most Republican atheists will be voting for Obama, solely because Palin is a large threat against separation of church and state, as you pointed out.
Even if we are talking 2% of the American population who may be Godless Republicans switching to the Democrats, that represents a 4% swing. Chances are, that is the margin that Obama wins by.
I may have to write about this post on my blog:
http://www.baconeatingatheistjew.blogspot.com/

Can the preachers of tolerance and respect for other religions present a compelling narrative on how one can be grounded in their faith and not have a thread of exclusivity or preference for the moral dictates of their faith? It's an impossible pipedream. All religious systems have non negotiable laws. Religion that is perfectly tolerant and non-exclusive is no longer a devotion to ones God, but simply a cultural peculiarity.

I have far more respect for an atheist than I do someone who tries to merge multiple systems of exclusive dogma together into a mosaic of love and goodwill. To truly acheive that level of function, there simply should be a law against any religious expression.

Its odd to see so many posters cite Scripture about turning the cheek and love for one another but ignore the Scriptures that present the judgement of God- What Bible are you reading from? You cite one sentence out of a huge in a huge book and claim you know everything about Christianity. You are proof texting which is poor journalism - finding Scriptures that support your own view and not the views of the God that authored the book. This is exactly how the truly hate filled religious zealots have operated througout history.

The reason why islamic terrorists are bombing people is because they follow an extremist form of religion.

How else do you tell them that it's false? Shall we "respect" their belief or tell it to their faces that it is WRONG.

Does it mean intolerance when I follow the latter?

The good thing about Freedom of Expression is it EXPOSES STUPIDITY.

And guess what? The stupid will call you INTOLERANT, instead of calling themselves IGNORANT.

//How do the candidates, all Christians, feel about religious tolerance? Do they honor and respect non-believers, atheists, agnostics and humanists as Americans of decency and morals and values?//

Those are 2 very different questions.

You do not have to respect someone's beliefs to respect the person. I have very little respect for religious beliefs. They are no more respectable than beliefs in extraterrestrials living among us, astrology, alchemy, etc... Do you respect belief in ghosts? I hope not. What's the difference?

But just because someone believes in something stupid doesn't mean the person is stupid. Some are. Most are not. Same for atheists. It takes more than a belief (or not) in imaginary beings to make someone stupid.

I have no respect for religious beliefs. I respect religious believers.

I think we all know which religion Marxists prefer.

The real problem is religious IGNORANCE. Too many people will be asking God, why, in the near future when the world come crashing down.

Here's the answer folks --IGNORANCE. No wonder this world is doomed. You guys have empty brains.

Intolerance your faces. God will burn gays and it's there in the HOLY BOOK, idiots.

Romans 1:27

Where in the world have you acquired the stupid ideas stuck in your brains. From your stupid priests?

I find it very troubling that a large number of posts here, from the neocon rapture crowd, are so filled with hate and intolerance. These rapture believers spred their message that, all Catholics,Lutherans,Protestants,Presbyterians,Muslims,Jews,Hindus,....etc etc etc are all going to burn in a sulfur pit forever, while they sit on clouds and watch with glee and sing in the heveanly choir. Do these people realise how bizarre and absurd they sound ? Have they actually made a trip too Walmart and purchased a white terry cloth robe for the rapture? Why do they harbor and openly display such abject hatred of the worlds vast majority of peoples? Wasn't Jesus Christ all inclusive, by the very definition of the word liberal, was not Jesus the absolute liberal? Why do these neocon rapture crowds scream "GIVE US BARABAS"..."GIVE US THE MURDERER AND ADULTER AND LIAR AND CRIMINAL, RELEASE BARABAS TOO US" and after the GOP throws a few pieces of silver into the crowds, they yell "CRUCIFY THE BLAMELESS ONE"..."CRUCIFY HIM" Why do they do this?

The people of this great nation will never come together if religion remains in politics."One nation under God" Does not state who's God we are professing to believe in.I certainly donot want someone elses beliefs showed down my throat.People who profess such great faith in christianity, seem to be the ones who trample on thier own faith, just to prove thier point.lying and slandering and lack of charity towards fellow human beings goes out the door when politicial preferences are at stake.A true christian lives by the code of "love thy neighbor"!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2008

Thank you, Sally. Particularly in view of Sarah Palin's statement that press criticism was perhaps impinging on her constitutional free speech rights, it is worthwhile to be reminded that her running-mate doesn't much adhere to the spirit of the First Amendment, either.

Your post is featured on RealityChex.com at http://www.realitychex.com

Not to shoot down a perfectly good liberal rant, Sally, but Jerry Falwell died in May 2007 so his role in the 2008 general election has been somewhat limited. You do get points for having McCain embrace a dead man on All Hallow's Eve. By the way, did you ever have that talk with Absp. Wuerl about not receiving Holy Communion until you decide you want to actually adhere to the creed you profess?

Religious intolerance as voiced by McCain and Palin is unecessary, hurtful and antagonistic to non-evangelical Christians and "other religious faithful" who feel that God/Yahweh/Great Mother is a benevolent and loving deity, not one who wishes to promote hate. How did the evangelical Christians become so hateful and hurtful in their preaching when Jesus clearly asked for a "turning of the other cheek" and "love thy neighbor like thyself"? It is disturbing and needs to be publicly confronted by the majority of Americans who are not evangelical Christians and certainly do not believe in this religious culture of antagonism and hatred.

Sorry babe, but logically you can't have it both ways. If you buy into any religious cult, by definition, you must be intolerant. If you are right, everybody else must be wrong. You cannot respect other beliefs without a suggestion of doubt in your own. They are going to burn in hell, after all. Why tolerate them now? Or is really all about hedging bets? Maybe there is no afterlife so better make the best of it here. On the other hand, maybe there is, so pick a cult and hope it's the right one.

I don't understand how McCain could ever come back after having sought endorsement from those lunatics. Wanting them on board is a real scandal and very scary, and it talks volumes about McCain's lack of tolerance and common sense. What is the matter with him?

John McCain is an experienced politician; so is Sarah Palen, though not so much. Whether or not John McCain or Sarah Palin are, themselves, bigoted or intolerant is not the point. It is the fact they understand bigotry and intolerance do exist, and they are are actively stoking it to be elected that troubles me.

If Senator Obama is elected our President on November 4th, McCain goes back to the Senate and Palin goes back to being governor in Juneau.

What about all the wingnuts they have inspired with their dangerous words? What will they do if Obama is elected? Politics is a dirty game; however, the negative ads that I have seen from Obama, attack McCain's positions and try to tie him to George Bush. The Negative Ads I have seen from McCain try to paint Obama as a traitor! There is a major difference there!

That, I believe is the point that John Lewis was making. The fact that McCain didn't get it, and his feelings were hurt, speaks volumes! I may have voted for the McCain of 2000; no way can I vote for this version!

yeah saj_pratt, you are a tolerant idiot. What anti-intellectuals are you talking about when Harvard University was established by the very religious Puritans and Pilgrims.

Spread your stupidity, idiot.

Yes, it appears McCain/Palin are severely intolerant of any whose views do not correspond to that of their supposed 'base' -- a largely superstitious, fearful, and fear-mongering tribe of anti-intellectuals that believe the US should be lead 'from the gut' rather than by clear-headed thinking and tolerant behavior.

In May 1637 John Harvard emigrated with his wife to New England and settled in Charlestown, Massachusetts, where many of his classmates had arrived before him.

He and his classmates were puritans. What else do you want to know?

John Harvard was not a pilgrim. He was never in Plymouth. The Pilgrims did not build Harvard. He was Harvard's first major benefactor.

You wrote (and I quote):"while the godly people in Plymouth continue to progress and built America's first school, the Harvard University." Now you're backpedaling to weasel out of being wrong.

Re burning: oooohh, so scared....light a match, bud.

sparrow wrote "What the line about Pilgrim's says is that Harvard was established 16 years after the Pilgrims landed. NOT that the Pilgrims built it."

Is it possible that you can land on a wilderness and build a college right away? I was amazed it took them only 16 years. Do you understand that part of the reason they built that college is because many separatist puritans in England were discriminated and were hindered to study in a prestigious university in England? Yes, the pilgrims were puritans just in case you don't know that.

For many years Massachusetts was a very religious state until the Catholics overan that state and made it the most liberal state in America. Observe how it will burn if your state doesn't burn first.

"Harvard College was established in 1636 by vote of the Great and General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony and was named for its first benefactor, John Harvard of Charlestown, a young minister who, upon his death in 1638, left his library and half his estate to the new institution. Harvard's first scholarship fund was created in 1643 with a gift from Ann Radcliffe, Lady Mowlson."

from Harvard's website. What the line about Pilgrim's says is that Harvard was established 16 years after the Pilgrims landed. NOT that the Pilgrims built it.

"Sparrow, you really have no common sense. Do you really believed the Ma legislature were composed of secular people after the Pilgrims established that state for themselves?" Again, you're hallucinating. I never said anything like that, but I will say your grasp of American history is laughable.

"You should be glad the planes Bin Ladin's men crash landed at the twin towers did not carry some "suitcase nukes" with them or you have been fried yourself as you claim you were just near when the attack occured."

Let's make something perfectly clear, you little cockroach. You aren't fit to wipe the butt of Osama bin Laden, let alone anyone in this country. I was there,- you piece of subhuman scum. The dog who died in the towers on 9-11 was a better Christian than you could ever hope to be. And far more intelligent. You don't even have the brains to think up another insult besides "idiots." You aren't a few bricks shy of a load- you're a few DNA strands short of an entire genus.

If the government does not allow drug use, is it called INTOLERANCE?

I guess the idiots think it is intolerance.

The problem here is the definition of stupidity.

I hope they don't become stupid enough to legalize murder and call those who oppose it as INTOLERANT.

Romans 1:27

Idiots, read that before shouting the word INTOLERANCE.

If you guys don't understand the word intolerance, I don't know how you are able to understand the Bible.

The sad truth is , YOU CAN'T.

One cannot embrace religious tolerance, when the leader(s) of any faith preaches intolerance. The preachers of intolerance breed fear and out of the fear comes hate. From the hate there is violence, more fear & more hate. Religion creates division instead of love & tolerance, love and forgiveness. Many people will not walk the higher moral ground of tolerance, it is not allowed by their religion's leaders. Man's will prevails over "God's" will. During the holidays when millions are singing "peace on earth good will to man"......They are words only, not deeds.

"Initially called "New College" or "the college at New Towne", the institution was named Harvard College on March 13, 1639, AFTER A YONG CLERGYMAN named John Harvard—a graduate of England's Emmanuel College, Cambridge (a college of the University of Cambridge) and St Olave's Grammar School, Orpington in the United Kingdom—who bequeathed the College his library of four hundred books and £779 (which was half of his estate)." (fr. wikipedia)

Sparrow, you really have no common sense. Do you really believed the Ma legislature were composed of secular people after the Pilgrims established that state for themselves? Those people were so religious that even the baptists were considered heretics. The baptist have to make another state which is Rhode Island to worship freely.

You are an IDIOT. And I wish you stop your idiocy before you burn and the others who might follow your lead. Burn because you are the kind of guys who will catch those missiles coming your way. You should be glad the planes Bin Ladin's men crash landed at the twin towers did not carry some "suitcase nukes" with them or you have been fried yourself as you claim you were just near when the attack occured.

NOW hear this IDIOT, there is a second attack coming and very much larger and if you folks don't stop your stupidity, you guys won't escape it.

It is possible to stop it but due to the stupididy you guys are displaying, it is bound to happen.

"After 20 years, the people in Jamestown, with all the troubles they're having, almost called it quits while the godly people in Plymouth continue to progress and built America's first school, the Harvard University."

wrong, spidey. Harvard was founded in 1639 by the fledgling Ma legislature, in Cambridge. the Pilgrims invented thanksgiving. I can see you didn't go to Harvard.

"YOU CHOSED THIS DOOM"- No, definitely not Harvard.

I dunno spidey- yours is a hatefilled, vengeful diety and bears no resemblance to Jesus or Christianity's teachings. You're probably out there on the street now with your little sandwich board preaching hate and fear- sound a lot closer to Satan than Christ, if you ask me. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I say you're a bricklayer, not an engineer.

enjoy your "life"- what there is of it. I'll pray for you, for all the good it'll do you. Lithium is probably your best bet.

Yes, Sally Quinn has written an inspired and truthful essay on why intolerance should be shunned and resisted in religion and politics both. In this election, the borders between church and state, spirituality and rationality, have become blurred. There is a reason why America, a profoundly religious nation since its inception, established a division between church and state. Perhaps it is similar to the reason why Jesus, the ultimate transformer, acted through the power of faith instead of politics in his own time. Government is a uniquely human endeavor; it is how people create their interdependent society and give shape to their present hopes and future dreams. A belief that a person, religious group, party or nation can invoke God on their behalf [implying that their opponents are less godly or less worthy] is not only wrong but dangerous, because there is no arguing about matters of faith. If religion is mixed with politics, elections become contests of faith, not rational discourse where people voice their worldly interests and preferences. Spiritualism and faith, and intellect and rationality, are fundamental components of the human makeup and condition, and exist side by side. Isn't it each person's responsibility to appreciate the appropriate zones of religious and political beliefs and actions, and to act accordingly? To mix religion and politics compromises them both.

There were two Americas in its early history. One secular state started in Jamestown, Virginia and another, which is godly, in Plymouth, Massachusetts.

The one which started in Plymouth were the Pilgrims. While those in Jamestown were simply seeking for a better life, those in Plymouth want a life that is centered on God.

After 20 years, the people in Jamestown, with all the troubles they're having, almost called it quits while the godly people in Plymouth continue to progress and built America's first school, the Harvard University.

Today, history is repeating itself. This election is becoming a battle between the UNGODLY vs the GODLY.

Just by reading our history, we would know that once the UNGODLY crowd takes charge in America, it is heading for DOOM AND GLOOM.

Remember, America (the ungodly part), YOU CHOSED THIS DOOM. Don't blame God when things get tougher.

(Just a reminder, the Dems put us into this mortgage mess which turned into global economic downturn. The worse is coming)

Fake America is doomed. The real ones will remain. That's the prophecy. I don't know what intolerance are you talking about. It's you who are intolerant to God's message.

And the message of God is the UNGODLY will be DOOMED.

We're the intolerant? Aren't you the guy licking his lips and waiting for death for the rest of us? spidey- its really hard to take you seriously. You sound like a bad actor in a bad production of Elmer gantry. I rather see you more in the role of Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter.

You are just one crazy fruitcake. It's just a good thing no one takes you seriously- they'd have to call someone to come pick you up. But there is an up side. since you're so sure America is doomed, this is your chance to get out. Go to, oh I dunno, Iran.... they like nutjobs like you.

HISTORY teaches us that the MOST INTOLERANT are the UNGODLY and the worshippers of FALSE RELIGION.

The people who practices both are the main supporters of Obama.

Ask Hugo Chavez or any followers of Bin Ladin. They too like Obama.

America is Doomed.

I follow Jesus Christ. Does that make me a Christian? It does, but I often resist the label because I have increasingly found very little "Christ" in many modern Christian sects/denominations/doctrines.

My faith is inclusive, I see nothing in Christ's teaching that tells me to reject anyone because of religious affiliation. There are many Christians that I am certain strongly disagree with me on this.

I would ask them to think on this one point... who is my neighbor?
Can the Muslim that lives next door or the Buddhist riding next to me on the train or the Jew working in the cubicle next to mine be discounted in my obedience to Jesus' rendering of the Second great commandment?

I want my political leaders to lead the country, I certainly hope they have hearts turned towards God. I won't expect them to lead my spirit, I have the One for that within.

I would respect religion more if they weren't bent on imposing their views and beliefs upoin the rest of society.

Abortion for example. You don't believe in them, or would never choose to have one? Fine! Don't have one. But leave me alone to my decision. MY DECISION, not yours. Mine. My decision at my expense to my body - and it doesn't affect your everyday life even in the slightest.

Gay marriage or civil union. Don't like it or you'd never do it? Fine! Then don't do it. But leave me to my own choice. My decision, not yours. My decision at my expense to my body - and it doesn't affect you in the slightest.

If the religious could just butt out of everybody else's business, the world would be a much happier - and probably more faithful - place to live and coexist.

But they can't. Rather, the extremists can't and they ruin it for everyone else.

How about the theory of evolution? They deny all scientific evidence to such a degree they appear comical. This does not earn them respect.

So. The list is long but it is doable. I'm willing to respect if they're willing to just leave us alone and live our lives as we see fit.

sparrow4, its all in the numbers. It's just that for me it took a long time for me to accept there were so many people whose opinions were alien to mine and that those people hated me for being different. My opinions are not really "mine" but have been produced by hard work trying to decide what is "right." Other people apparently do not have to do this to decide what is right. I really do not envy them.

DanielintheLionsDen : 'Rejection of intolerance in others is not the same as being "intolerant."'

Bravo! Those who call this intolerance are attempting to win a substantive argument with insubstantive word games. They should be laughed out of any group having a serious discussion.

Unfortunately it seems we are. religion gets tied to these things because their leaders don't condemn it, and in fact use it to promote their own agendas. Where we get confused in thinking these leaders are actually teaching what they should.

"Ignorance leads to fear and intolerance and bigotry and in some cases violence"

Why do people continue to link these effects with religion. These are conflicts between church sects jockying for political position and favor with government. These are political activists with strictly political messages, and their tactics are almost exclusively negative. Associating them with religion plays into their deception. They do not deserve that authority and anyone who gives it to them has been intentionally mislead. Are so many of us really that stupid?

fine, seektruth. How about a little truth about Hagee, Parsley, Robertson, Dobson and Falwell?
Wright has nothing on those guys- you want to talk racist, antiSemitic, antiMuslim and anti-catholic?

Kep Florida- if you believe those guys and McCain (who actively sought endorsements from some of them) are better than wright, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you. Comes with a big round of green cheese from the sky.

Seek Truth

Your arguments are racist.

Regarding Jeremiah Wright...

Remember Obama said he could no sooner disown Jeremiah Wright than he could his white grandmother.

Then Obama disowned Wright.

Does that mean he has disowned his white grandmother?

And did you know Obama claims to have attended Wright's church about twice a month?

Do the math. That's 24 times a year times 20 years.

Obama sat through 480 sermons!!

If you believe Wright didn't express any of his hateful, bigoted rants during any of those 480 sermons, I have some land to sell you in Florida.

seektruth- what planet are you from?

As for Obama and his pastor, mentor and great spiritual leader Jeremiah Wright ...

Remember when he said he could not sooner disown Wright than he could his white grandmother?

Then, when the pressure was on, he went ahead and disowned Wright -- does that mean he has also disowned his grandmother, too?? No on has asked him that question.

Truth is, Obama claims he attended Wright's church about twice a month.

Have you done the math?

Over a period of 20 years, that's 480 times.

Obama sat through 480 of Jeremiah Wright's sermons. 480 sermons!!

Do you really, honestly, believe that out of 480 sermons Jeremiah Wright never once expressed his hateful, bigoted ideology? Maybe you think Obama was just sleeping through the sermons??

Daniel,

Tolerance didnt emerge as a reaction to European wars.Wasnt there tolerance before 16th century ?

Besides,first immigrants from Europe were not *religionist* Europeans.The ideals of most of them were *New World* and *New Life*
USA was based on Contemporay Values and Rationality,not on religious fanaticism.
The present *religious spoilage* in the some part of USA is a fashion after the collapse of Communism.It will pass.....

Religiousmania is not an American Value.
Religiousmania is not a Protestant(Reformer) Value.
*Tolerance to islamofascism* is not an American Value.
Yes,Daniel,
American Value is *man-woman equality*,not *two women equals one man*
American Value is A.Lincoln,not chain/veil/burqa/slavery/Timothy 2.12

Yes,absolutely.

"I vote for tolerance and pluralism."

Absolutely ... That's why we need to vote McCain/Palin!!

Obama obliterates anyone who has a differing opinion than his own.

He goes after Joe the Plumber, refuses to talk to members of the media who ask tough questions, and kicks reporters off his "Obama 1" airplane just because the newspapers they work for did not endorse him.

It's scary to think what he'll do if he becomes President.

And my third point- the tax exempt status of hte catholic church must be rescinded. If you want to be a 527, be honest about it. But they have overstepped their bounds and broken the law for tax-exempt status. Make 'em pay up!

Frankly, I don't have a problem with Obama and Trinity. Speaking as a Jew, I have wondered where was the outrage over all the antisemitic,anti Muslim, even anti-Catholic comments from the Grahams, the Falwells, the the Robertsons, the Hagees and Parsleys? Falwell and Robertson even blamed 9-11 on America itself. I didn't hear any calls for presidents and candidates to denounce them. The only reason McCain did, under duress, was because such a big deal had been made about Wright. There is a real white bigotry here. Personally, I see no difference between Billy Graham's comments and Louis Farrahkan's . Certainly not as far as Jews are concerned.

Israel? Well, they can all say what they want. I distrust much more the evangelical view of Israel- convert all Jews so we can all die to bring on the end times. Yeah- what's up with that?

So Wright has an Afro-centric view of the world? What did Falwell have? A White-anglo Saxon centric view. As do Billy graham, Robertson et al. But there is one other difference- Wright is a former Marine and Navy man. Only robertson served his country- by spending the Korean war serving liquor in the officer's club).

So I guess for most people it comes down to whose intolerance do I like better? Obama is not intolerant. McCain- really not but will kiss intolerant a** to win, so in essence it's the same result. Palin? Not so much intolerant as blind. She can't see beyond the limits of her faith and what intolerance she exhibits comes from a system of belief, not true bigotry. Sadder is that she doesn't seem to have the intellectual capacity to understand this, or to lead this country.

The problem is that tolerance goes very much against the tenets of the candidates' religion. "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters." -Matthew 12:30

So why should they embrace tolerance when their own God does not?

Rejection of intolerance in others is not the same as being "intolerant."

Tolerance and Toleration is a doctrine and system of belief, which emerged as a reaction to the brutal European wars of relgion between and among the Protestants and the Catholics, and which helped, eventually, to form the American nation.

Principles of tolerance and toleration are simple and easy to understand; it is a very small mind that cannot grasp tolerance and the good that principles of toleration have brought to the world.

I am interested to see all of the "hate Sally Quinn" comments in reaction to her essay on tolerance. There always seems to be a group of people who hate her and everything she says; I am interested to see their spin on things for this go-around.

As far as I am concerned, this essay on tolerance is excellent, and we need more thinkiing like this, ALOT more of it, not less of it.

Sally, surely a sophisticated, objective journalist like yourself can see the logical inconsistency of your post. If you really meant what you said about tolerance and pluralism you could not call out Palin, McCain or any other who makes 'exclusivity' claims. You would have to just embrace their views. Instead you show your hand. You are just as much of an intolerant religious zealot as the others you repudiate. They are just more consistent (and honest) than you. Let's be honest. You are intolerant of any who do not agree with your brand of religion. This makes you just like so many other zealots. Your inconsistency just makes you look foolish. And the fact that you don't realize this makes people like you the 'scary ones'.

E.Raymond

Thank you for speaking up for non-believers who are as much a part of American History as any other group.

We are hard-working, moralistic, and patriotic families who are your neighbors.

Dear Sally Quinn,

*I vote for tolerance and pluralism*
Yes,tolerance and pluralism in the frame of US Constitution and American Values.
Yes,Tolerance and pluralism in the frame of Human Rights and Contemporary Values.
Lets look on the first two sentences.
*Ignorance and intolerance of the faith or lack of faith of others is a huge problem in a world where religion is the main motivating force for most people*
-This assertion is questionable.It seems to me,religion/cult motivated people are not much more than ten or twenty percent of the whole world population,but lets suppose it is as you write.If religion/cult is the main main motivating force for most people(if you mean whole world,it's almost 4 billion people of 7 billion),it is a huge problem.
The religion/cult motivation is a part of the Life.Economy,Nationalism,Sport and Muse are another parts of motivation.I know many people,they sleep with soccer and they wake up with soccer.
*As American we must try to understand and respect belief we dont share as long as they are not imposed on us and do not infringe on our lives(let the snake live one thousand years if it doesnt bite me.Third class mentality) in any way*
-As American,first of all,you must try to respect US Constitution and American Values.
-*as long as they are not imposed on us* If they directly impose(not impose,but Enforce) on you,what will we do ? If they infringe on our lives,not in any way,in all way,what will we responde ?
-For example,can we say *let them take four women if they dont infringe on my own life* Is this American Value ?
-Stone Age Cult(s) will threaten Civilization and Human Rights,
-Desert Mentality will menace US Constitution and Contemporary Values
And I will respect their belief(!) Is this American Value ?
Dear Sally Quinn,
America(US) will not be melted in their pot,*they* will melt in US melting pot.
America(US) will not go back to cave age,of course,they shall come to twentyfirst century.

Yes,American Value is the Blowing about your hairs,not chained(haedscarf,burqa) slavery.
Yes,Tolerance and Pluralism in the frame of American Values.

I failed to mention one other significant religious and moral difference I have with Barack Obama. Obama supports infanticide. Sarah Palin does not. Mr. Obama has a born-alive problem. Obama voted against a Born Alive Bill in the Illinois Senate on the flimsy justification that the law might undermine Roe v. Wade. Thus Obama is on record supporting the withholding of care for a child that is born alive as a result of a botched abortion. To say the least, this is an extreme position.

While I agree with some of what is written here, Ms. Quinn is distorting things a bit I think.

I wholeheartedly agree, Jew's For Jesus activist, David Brickner's talk was disreputable. Yet, just as Senator Obama did with the outrageous statements from his pastor of twenty years, Governor Palin issued a statement that Brickner's message did not reflect her own views. Whether or not this is the case with Obama and Palin, we cannot know for certain.

Ms. Quinn has distorted the point Palin made about the Iraq war being (quoting Quinn) "a mission from God." I watched the video. Apparently Ms. Quin did not. This is what Palin said: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God...."

In other words Ms. Quinn, Governor Palin urged her friends to pray Iraq is a mission from God.

Beyond that, Ms. Quinn asserts Mr. Obama is religiously tolerant; McCain and Palin are not. John McCain is attempting to shore up his conservative Christian base. It seems to me, the issue here is Palin vs. Obama. As a Jew, obviously I have fundamental theological difference with a committed Christian like Sarah Palin. I do not see where we have any significant moral or ethical differences.

The same cannot be said about Barack Obama. Obama's pastor of twenty years (and his church) celebrate vicious anti-Semites like Nation of Islam leader, Louis Farrakhan. I believe Obama has had Nation of Islam activists working in his campaign. Obama's pastor, Jeremiah Wright characterizes Israel as a state sponser of terrorism even though Israel is defending herself against jihad terrorism. Reverend Wright calls Israel "that dirty word," etc. As an adult, Mr. Obama has associated with some vicious Jew-haters. Haters like Rashid Khalidi, Rashid al-Mansour, the late Edward Said and others. These are extreme men. They are utterly intolerant of the Jewish state.

Why does the Los Angeles Times refuse to make public a video of a 2003 event at which Barack Obama paid tribute to pro-Palestinian Rashid Khalidi, a man who has paid tribute to Palestinian suicide bombers against innocent Jews?

themoderate:
"Ignorance leads to fear and intolerance and bigotry..."
Sally, you sell fear to the ignorant for a living.

I admit that I don't have history following her writing, but based on what she has written here I do not understand your statement. How is what she wrote selling fear? It seems straightforward and honest enough, void of incitfull wording. It does seem true enough. She seems to have some bent toward Obama and not so toward McCain, by the piece is comparing religious tolerance between candidates. How is it incorrect? It has been my perception that Obama is far more tolerant, toward religious differences as well as social, economic, racial.... and that McCain, though historically willing to reach across the aisle, is not nearly so tolerant. Palin I think doesn't show her true intolerant face.
"Ignorance leads to fear and intolerance and bigotry..."
I agree with this. I think that the masters of modern times of formenting fear are the experts on the "conservative" side. Just watch Fox or CNN. Or any Presidential address of the last eight years.

In my post, I should have said that a President Obama's position may not be popular at home or abroad.

Sorry about that omission.

Ms. Quinn, I have appreciated the opportunity you and Mr. Meacham have provided for discussing the relationship of faith and public life.

With so few days left before the election, it would have been helpful if there had been a more in-depth analysis of Senator Obama's address to Planned Parenthood, his commitment to Roe vs. Wade without compromise, and the new social contract he envisions for women.

It is disappointing that the candidates' positions on abortion have been given scant attention by the media, It still remains divisive at home and will likely not be popular abroad.

"Ignorance leads to fear and intolerance and bigotry..."

Sally, you sell fear to the ignorant for a living.

This is a fantastic piece that should be on the front page. In an age of elections where divisive comments are often made in the name of unity, a call for tolerance is one that should be repeated again and again.

I think that religion definitely plays a central role in the lives of many, if not most, Americans. However, I’ve yet to discover how religious affiliation is a definitive declaration of morality, administrative ability, or the capability to lead.

McCain makes a valid point when he says that America was founded upon Christian principles, but that doesn’t mean that America was founded upon Christians themselves. Is religion important? Absolutely; it’s critical. But it is a moral and capable individual who we need at the head of the Executive Branch, not merely a religious one.

As an American and as a Mormon, I place immense value on the Constitution and morality. But I would not vote for a Mormon just because he shares my “religion.” Nor would I vote likewise for a Catholic if I was Catholic simply because a candidate shared my faith, a Protestant if I were Protestant for the same reasons, or an atheist if I was an atheist for the same reasons.

Our country is in need of qualified leaders right now, but we may perhaps be equally desperate for educated voters who make their voting decisions on issues of more substance than a demographic mark on the census. This is a fantastic article, and I add my voice to many others calling for “tolerance and pluralism,” not for the sake of diversity, but because I recognize that no religion has a monopoly on individuals of morality, administrative ability, or leadership capability.

Kurt Manwaring

Tolerance and pluralism are sorely needed virtues at this point. Having twice elected a President who famously called himself a uniter and has failed at every juncture to unite, being far more effective in the opposite endevour of dividing this nation more deeply than we have been for decades, we are in need of healing. Tolerance has been sorely lacking. Tolerance, a virtue claimed by true followers of Christ, is sorely lacking in right leaning evangelicals. Evangelicals have run the Executive branch for eight years, and the central tenet of that administration has been war against islamic countries. Partisanship, non plurality, and dirty politics have never been stronger as they looked to assure an assumption of republican dynasty.
Evangelicals and their intolerance of religious diversity, and judgement of all other forms of religion as if they had a divine benediction, has polluted what is great about the Republican platform. I have respect for historic Republican stances. Evangelicals, particularly obvious during the tenure of George W. Bush, has not only failed their party but have gutted it, and the bloodletting is at their door and at the door of their neocon subsect.
I would vote for a christian, and indeed have no other choice as is pointed out. All are christian. I will not vote for an evangelical. Don't trust them past where I can see them. Don't trust them where I can see them. I came to this over time. They, or their representatives, have proved that to me by their actions.

Sally,

This is the single most underreported fact of the election.

People need to look at the Theocracy Watch website and understand how Sarah Palin was brought in to capture the religious right against the better judgement of McCain.

Barry Goldwater, the last Republican on the planet, stated in the Washington Post in 1994,

"I am a conservative Republican, but I believe in democracy and the separation of church and state. The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet that people have the right to live life as they please as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process."

What would he say about the hatred surrounding Prop 8 in CA and Amendment 2 in FL?

What would he make of the rhetoric from Sarah Palin and her association with Joel's Army, the Latter Rain, Dominionism, and her mixing of religion and politics?

Oddly, it was Goldwater's loss which gave birth to the whole Moral Majority movement, the rise to power of Paul Weyrich and the Committee for the Survival of a Free Congress (CSFC), and one of the first direct mail campaigns in history with assocaition of the American Conservative Union...the birth of the Heritage Foundation and the Council for National Policy (the head of Blackwater Security is a member and major donor).

The "the truth is stranger than fiction" addage is fitting here. I see an Obama victory as a threat to the continued expansion of the Military Industrial Complex (Haliburton and Kellog-Root especially) and since Blackwater is also on the receiving end of the government trough, it is scary to think of the religious-right faction in the armed forces who truly believe that they are preparing for an end-times war in the Middle East. Watching the children of Jesus Camp during indoctrination, stating that they are willing to give their lives to the cause is chilling...and Sarah Palin and Jew's for Jesus would have Israel converting to Christianity. This is philosophically no different than a Jihadist demanding the same thing from the West in respect to conversion to Islam.

The only two problems I have with Obama are the fact that he was a member of Trinity and could not have missed the mission statement of the church in relation to it's focus on Black Liberation Theology and its Afrocentric view of the world,a nd his lack of support for equal rights for marriage for gay Americans. For the greater-good, O voted for him.

I think your post should be read by more people and I hope they understand the underlying, insidious mission which the Dominionists hold.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag, carrying the cross."
It Can't Happen Here
1935 Sinclair Lewis