Liddy Dole's Un-American Ad

THANK YOU, Ms. Quinn, for this article. I have been screaming in the comments section of almost any news article I could find online, and in letters to editors, ever since this story hit the news. No one in the media even considered questioning the underlying bigotry of Dole's ads. They all accepted that the accusation was obviously horrible and slanderous.

While I recognize that Hagan had to insist on her Christianity to get elected in the U.S., that says more about us as a nation than it does about Hagan. This country needs to end religious bigotry of all stripes. It makes me extremely angry that the bulk of the media won't call this bigotry out when it makes such obvious headlines.

Why is it that Hagan responds like being called an atheist is an insult deserving a libel suit? This is ridiculous. She is just pandering to the generalized bigotry to non believers. This group last counted, constituted 14% of Americans.
Surely this morally decadent spawn of satan must be crowding jails (oh wait: that place is full of religious recidivists criminals), hate family (oh no: they have the lowest divorce rate) and be totally uneducated (oh no, 93% of top American scientists don't believe in a personal god).
Its just about people that hold reason and fact above other ways of understanding the world.
And would like religion OUT of politics.

SPIDERMAN2

I imagine that you have heard the phrase, "God is on our side".

Well, that is a true statement and the "our side" part of that phrase stands for "humanity's side".

We are ALL made in God's Image, God did not tear out page 1 and I am here to remind others of that fact. "Let Us make man [humanity] in Our Image".

Not only is God a BEING OF PURE LOVE but He cares for each and every one of us, that is why God came up with His Plan which includes ALL OF HUMANITY to be with Him in His Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

ARMINIUS

You wrote, "Thank you, Thomas Baum, thank you. This Christian salutes you. Please pray for Spidey, he is very, very troubled."

One of the things that I have said to various people is: If you are going to be Catholic, then might as well be catholic.

Since you are Episcopalian, I know that you know what catholic means?

I kind of make it simple and just pray for all people that have been, that are and that will be.

It is good to hear from you, hope you're doing fine and you know what, it sure does seem that God looking at us rather than whatever "label" we apply to ourself is going to surprise quite a few.

If you would keep me in your prayers, I would be quite appreciative, remember we are ALL in this together and thank you for your comment.

Hang in there, He hung in there for us, ALL OF US.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

ATHENA4

You wrote, "This Pagan thanks you, Thomas Baum. You are a voice of reason and compassion on this board. You are a true Christian."

God Bless You, Athena4 and I thank you.

Some people do not believe that Jesus Is Who He Is and if I thought for one moment, that God was anything like what some that know His Name say that He Is, then I would want absolutely nothing to do with Him.

I thank God that God is not the ego-maniac that some seem to think that He Is.

There will be some that do not believe in God that will be quicker in going to Him than some that do believe in Him but we will all eventually be with God.

As I have said, it is not about religion, it is about LOVE.

Thanks again for your comment and that you were gracious enough to send it. We are all in this together and God is on our side, humanity's side.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

If we get four more years without health care, with more layoffs, with more bloodshed in Iraq--in short if we have another disastrous Republican administration, we'll all know where to look--right at the Vatican and all the Catholodroids of America, along with the right-wing Protestants, their partners in crime.

Dear Demented, the prohibition on religious tests refers to constitutional or statutory qualifications. It most certainly does not in any way limit or infringe on an individual elector's right to freely decide his vote as he sees fit on the basis of any reason or non-reason. Nor does it in any way impose on the elector an obligation to disregard a candidate's faith. The intent of the provision is to ensure a non-sectarian government -- not to make elections safe for atheists.

Article VI of the United States Constitution states, in part, "but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." What has happened to the Constitution? I believe some conservative Christians would like the Republican party to become the American Know Nothing Party and have a religion test for elected office. Of course, the test would be to determine if a candidate was a "good" (i.e., Evangelical) Protestant of the ilk of Sarah Palin, Dr. James Dobson, Rev. Pat Robertson, the late Dr. D. James Kennedy and Rev. Jerry Falwell. What a sad state of affairs that would be for religious diversity and religious freedom in America.

Cheers for Sally! Great idea to replace atheist for Muslim; but I would replace atheist with "non-gullible"!

Cheers for Sally! It was a great idea to replace the word Muslin with atheist! But, instead of atheist, I like "non-gillible" !

Yonkers, New York
04 November 2008

In desperate situations normally good and rational people are oftentimes goaded into doing bad and even abominable things which under calmer circustamces they would be loathe to do.

That is probably what Republican Senator Liddy Dole has been doing, carelessly tossing the word "godless" against her Democratic opponent Ms Hagan.

Recall the lines: "Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they make mad!"

Mariano Patalinjug
MarPatalinjug@aol.com

Sparrow lectures me thus:

“Mid 19th. century makes those Christian emigrants johnny-come-lately's to the founding of America table. By then many, if not most, were coming to see if the streets were really paved with gold.”

Tell that to the Lebanese immigrants of the 1860s and the Armenians after 1917, the Jews of Germany after 1945, Bahai Iranians of 1980s , the Southern Sudanese of 2000 and Assyrians of Iraq 2003-2008 etc. All those are refugees from religious persecution and if some of them became wealthy was not the initial intent. The initial intent were to escape persecution.

Thank you for this story. This election has set some new lows and shown the pitiful character of some of our politicians...people we choose to lead us. I am an independent voter and I also struggle in understanding my faith. Am I un-American? I suppose that Ms. Dole would consider me so. How sad for her. It appears as if she has outlived her ability to reason, to accept the differences we all bring to this great melting pot, and her ability to be compassionate. How desperate or greedy she must be to have run the "Godless" ad against Ms. Hagan. I hope this election allows her to retire.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your "Powell"-adapted defense of atheists, who are real people and usually pretty good ones.

" oldmagnolia

"Kay Hagan is suing Senator Dole. As a woman and a Dem, I've followed the career of the usually savvy ED for decades, and can only suppose that Dole signed off on this irresponsible ad without eyeballing it first. Pity."

It wasn't just an oversight on Dole's part. When Hagan called her on it she repeated and intensified the smear. Seems she learned the GOP Swiftboating tactics all too well.

The spirit of Libby Dole's attack ad fits nicely into the McCain-Palin politics of spite campaign, which used Obama's rhetoric, intelligence and style as a reason to distrust him for being an elitist, and then went on to signal--with little subtlety that he was alien to the values of the "real America." Indeed, what are we to make of a campaign built around the slogan "Country First?"
If, as many suggest, Sarah Palin represents the future of the Republican party, I welcome that prospect, since Palin's nativist and naive views will attract the sort of voters who respond positively to the Dole ad and more positively alienate moderate Republicans and independents.
The irony of this election, of course, is that these foot soldiers who carried Bush into successive terms really got nothing for their support. Yes, the Alito and Roberts nominations to the court look like prizes to the right-to-life faction but, in fact, the Bush judicial nominees are more loyal to property rights and anti-regulation than to the religious right's values.

At the end of the day...
Along our way, each of us will meet countless other individuals facing the same fundamental life questions (don't we all live within the same cosmos?)… though many will approach them from positions in sharp contrast to ours.
What inspires our hope may trigger their terror. What represents our liberation may constitute the radical destruction of their near-and-dear values. And what we may do to try and build these fresh freedoms into our reigning social structures, they might seek to undermine or sabotage in righteous refusal to bow down. Can't you see? We are both us and them… in different guises, based on the situation.

No matter what side of history we find ourselves on, the other players deserve our basic human respect—regardless of whether we feel they've given us the same. Compassion's got to start somewhere....

"The commercial is about judgment [sic]."

Exactly! Bad judgement by Sen. Dole. Blatently lying to your constituents is always bad judgement especially when the lie you tell is so obviously false and transparently hypocritical.

MissV,

If you were an elected official, would you do your best to represent all of your constituents or just the ones that happen to agree with your religious opinions?

The only criticism I have for State Sen. Hagan is that she should have defended everybody's religious liberty when she had the chance.

@SPIDERMAN2
"Over the summer, Chip Hagan had also been criticized by Republicans for part ownership of domestic oil wells as gasoline prices increased for consumers."

Does that mean the BUSH FAMILY would be the only Republicans allowed to own domestic oil wells AND facilitate the gasoline price increases?

I know schools in NC were closed today...but you can still open a book and study.
Hon, I'm not trying to belittle you- but if you were on "this end" of your statements you wouldn't even believe what you're saying.

abhab:"Many from he Middle East , Africa and Asia had been forced out by the Communists and Turks and many found their way to the USA especially starting from the the middle of he 19th Century. Now who needs to crack a history book?"

ah- but this country was "discovered" in 1492 and declared independence in 1716. backpedaling won''t fix the fact that you blamed the emigration of Christians here to atheists and Islam. This country was a haven for christians and others (ie Jews) escaping religious persecution by various forms of Christianity. Not only did Jews come here to escape the Inquisition, but if you actually read that history book, not just cracked it, you would have known that the Moors had protected us- so we weren't running from them as we hightailed it out of Spain.

Mid 19th. century makes those christian emigrants johnny-come-lately's to the founding of America table. By then many, if not most, were coming to see if the streets were really paved with gold.

Like I say- read the book, don't just peek under the flap.

The commercial is about judgment.

Kay Hagan was chosen by a handful of rich Democrats to seek this US Senate seat because she's a young white woman with money. She can't hold a CANDLE to Sen. Dole!

So, if the Godless group were running a fundraiser for me, a devout Christian, would I go?

HELL NO!

I agree in every respect. Excellent!

So, what's wrong with the "Godless American's PAC" as a na,e - is it too honest and straightforward for an America that is now used to the Orwellian titles that the currenct Administration give to it's programs "Clear Skies Act" that allows pollution, "Patriot Act" that allows the government to spy on it's citizens. The people in this PAC have no God or Gods AND they are Americans. Simple, Direct, honest. If that fact offends some Christians - too bad.

Kay Hagan is suing Senator Dole. As a woman and a Dem, I've followed the career of the usually savvy ED for decades, and can only suppose that Dole signed off on this irresponsible ad without eyeballing it first. Pity.

Even with Hagan's excellent career record and hilarious rocking chair TV ads, there will be many old Jesse Helms worshipers, misguided souls, who will pull the lever (or rather darken the circle) for Dole. Go figure.

Can there be any doubt that, in the view of many religious believers, religion is to be used to influence and control the behavior of those outside their group?

Otherwise, what possible explanation can there be for the fact that such believers feel threatened by the existence and opinions of those who do not believe in their brand of faith?

For them, religion equals control over the behavior of others.

Am I missing something here?

As a N.C. resident, I find Dole's ad totally un-called for. This country was founded on the principle of freedom of (and thus from) religion. In the last few decades, the Christian Right has grown in political strength and referred to the Founding Fathers as Christian. Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians.

Sparrow 4 lectures me thus:
"Abhab- i suggest you go back to and crack a history book. Christians came here to escape the persecutions of other Christians- you know."

The Old World contains more than Europe, and Christians have been persecuted by others and still are being persecuted today. Many from he Middle East , Africa and Asia had been forced out by the Communists and Turks and many found their way to the USA especially starting from the the middle of he 19th Century. Now who needs to crack a history book?

Well Sally, the problem is that the MSM routinely shows deference to TV evangelists, mega-church pastors, and politicians who claim piety. These individuals are rarely worthy of the deference.

THE ANSWER IS THAT YOU, SALLY, YOU IN THE MEDIA NEED TO START WITH SKEPTICISM AND STOP SHOWING DEFERENCE WHENEVER SOMEONE CLAIMS PIETY.

The individuals who are REALLY, ACTUALLY doing "God's work" for the poor, the weak, the elderly, the children, the needy, the downcast and downtrodden in their communities - these people do not seek the limelight.

Note that the individuals listed below alllllll claimed piety, or high respectability, yet alllllll have digraced themselves through sex, hypocricy, crime, or money:

Larry Craig, Trent Lott, Liddy Dole, David Vitter, Rev. Hagee, Rev. Dollar, Bennie Hinn, Mark Foley, Tim Mahoney, Allan Mollohan, Ted Stevens, Vito Fosella, Rick Renzi, John Doolittle, Jack Abramhoff, Jerry Lewis, Tom Feeney, Don Young, Charlie Rangel, William Jefferson, Jesse Jackson, Jim and Tammy Fae Baker, and on and on and on...

When the MSM stops giving an assumption of veracity to those who trumpet their religion or claimed morality episodes like Liddy Dole's disgraceful and unamerican behavior will be ignored.

...But as long as you in the MSM keep the "who's most pious" contest going by giving deference to thtose who claim it - the contest and behavior will only get worse.

It figures that we'd see someone threatening fire and brimstone on the non-believers and people of other faiths here. As an atheist/freethinker/humanist (or whatever you want to call someone who doesn't believe in the dogma of classical theism), this kind of thinking is what makes me find the far-right Christians amongst the most repulsive kind of people I can think of. These people are driven by self-righteous arrogance and hatred for anyone who doesn't see the world as they do.

This country was not founded on Christianity. Do a thorough research on our founding fathers: Washington was a Freemason deist who refused to have the clergy next to him on his deathbed. Jefferson was quite hostile towards Christianity, describing it as "the most perverted system that ever shone on man... perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind... a mere contrivance for the clergy to filch wealth and power to themselves." Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, James Madison and even Abraham Lincoln were deists who privately had very low opinions of the Christian church and the religion itself. They were much more concerned about America than Christianity.

The separation of church and state is the founding principle of this great country. I can laugh at the fire breathing sermons of the fundamentalists and Pascal's Wager, but I absolutely despise the people who believe in this stuff trying to stuff it down other people's throats. Christian extremists aren't that different from Muslim extremists or extremists of any other religion. There are over 10,000 religions around the world and that number is growing bigger everyday. Please, just keep your religious thoughts to yourselves and don't force it upon others. What's going on with this election says that the majority of Americans are fed up with such intolerance and hatred being spewed by the religious right.

Great column! It's incredibly ironic that a nation founded on religious freedom would continue to keep qualified people out of political office simply on the basis of their religious beliefs. The comparison to Powell's remarks about Islam is right on the money. Thank you very much for speaking up about this!

I agree with the author except for one point--the trash is not Liddy Dole's resume, it is Liddy Dole herself. Throw her in the garbage where she belongs.

Great article! I'm from NC and I remember so many people being "unsettled" by that ad. We can apply this piece to so many political arenas- the message is clear and true.

So sad that so many claim to be "PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN" then go on to defile the very definition of being American and the purpose behind the founding of this country. Many stopped being American when they forgot WHO America really is. It doesn't matter how we got here, America is ALL OF US- no matter the religion, color or creed. Today- I AM SO PROUD OF AMERICA and I'm proud to say I'm American, of how far we have come. Even if we're not "there" we're not "where we were" and we can heal the wounds and move on. Even if Obama doesn't win the election, there's NO DENYING his love for this country and it's people-ALL THE PEOPLE-he's touched the hearts of every man woman and child here and abroad. WE HAVE COME SO FAR...LET'S KEEP MOVING FORWARD!!! I'm tired of hate and ignorance...I'm so tired.

To Tony in NC:

You wrote: "Like it or not, we're a Christian nation. I'm not too crazy about that, but that's the way it is."

I think there's a difference between being a "nation of (predominantly) Christians" and being "a Christian nation". The first implies that the majority of people practices some flavor of Christianity and thus is bound together by basic tenets of faith which do not preclude them being bound to the non-Christian minority as citizens. The second equates being a citizen with following Christianity, something which is patently false according to the Constitution.

P.S. I hope there are bluebells blooming in your state... :)

"... John Adams, the son of a minister and a very devout Christian. ..."

Just for clarity, John Adams was a Unitarian Christian. He followed the earthly teachings of Jesus but he rejected the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus so he was not exactly a Christian by the traditional definition. He was actually more of a Deist (to the extent that it matters) and he was indeed a strong supporter of separation of church and government.

jbrubin- re decency: I think it's being voted back into office today :-)

The hateful tactics of Dole should surprise no
one given the tenor of McCain's fear and smear campaign. Just another nail in the casket of the Republican ticket. The silence of McCain is the same as giving tacit approval to these hateful fear campaigns."Country First", has been pushed under the bus by the greatest phoney of holier then thou politics this country has ever seen.
What ever happened to decency?

Mrs Dole so wanted the trappings of this world that she was willing to put what human beings would think over what Jesus would have done. It's another testimonial to how we have to be ever vigilent and steadfast in leaning not to the understanding of human but instead the understanding of God. We all have fallen weak and have at times strayed. Let us forgive her as I'm sure she has asked God to forgive her. Unfortunately her once stellar career is as Judas's gold; undermined by self.

spidermean2 wrote :
Speaking of meanness:

In October 2008, The Politico reported that Hagan's husband Chip Hagan III, a former Democratic county leader, had been a member of 1,000-member Greensboro Country Club for years, despite the club's de facto segregation and refusal to admit black members.

Rebuttal:

“Chip supported broadening the membership to include African Americans and others,” she said. “Though it took longer than it should have, Greensboro County Club fully desegregated in 1995 and remains so today.”

Ditch Dole! shame on Liddy! great article

I was afraid this appalling commercial would go largely unnoticed. We as a country have been shrugging off these McCarthy-style campaign tactics for the entire season, even though they should not be tolerated. Dole's ad is the worst of the bunch and reeks of the kind of intolerance we fought to overcome in the 1960's. I can't imagine why she wasn't "run out of town" for it, much less why anyone would vote for her.

As a non-believer, an atheist... I'm really tired of the extreme hostility that is often directed toward people like me. It escalated during Bush's time in office, thanks to his push for all things faith-based. He and his far right-wing base did everything they could to alienate those of us that are not Christians. The religious take-over of our country needs to stop now -- it's unpatriotic and the antithesis of all this country stands for.

There is no freedom OF religion without freedom FROM religion.

The Dole ad destroyed any respect I had for the Doles and the Republican party generally.

And it made a mockery of the original claim of the ad, that Dole was somehow a superior Christian. Last time I checked Christians are instructed rather specifically not to bear false witness and lie about others, which is exactly what Dole did.

If this is modern-day American Christianity I want no part of it.

Amen. Christianity and big business are the two most destructive forces against the founding spirit of this great nation. America is NOT about Christianity, especially when it takes the form of the deadest, most lifeless, spiritless "religion" on the planet, American Protestantism. Rid American politics of these white-washed tombs now. Cast religion OUT of our elections like the demon it is.

Very well said.

"Jefferson was a deist, the most polar opposite of devout piety that existed at that time."
________________________

Not only that, John Adams, the son of a minister and a very devout Christian, understood that religion and government must be kept far away from one other. We espoused a secular nation which is why he included the Seperation of Church and State into the Constitution. A point ubber right-wing Christians love to ignore when they espouse that we are a Christian nation. We are NOT. It's ironic that the very people who love to constantly invoke the Founding Fathers have no actual knowledge or understanding of them. Some people should spend their time reading books instead of burning them. It's more practical.

You have painted a picture using only two colors, black and white. I'm sure the truth, as always, lies somewhere in a shade of gray.

Libby Dole is an embarrassment and a shadow of her former self. I used to respect and like her until I saw her being extremely disrespectful to Russert on Meet the Press. She had a speech memorized and just kept talking over both Russert and the other guest.

She is a stench in the nostrils of honest people. Her husband seems like such a nice man, I don't know how he can stand to be in the same room with her. People like her and McCain make me sick. Throwing away a lifetime legacy in a pathetic grab for power.

Thier ruined reputation will be a far better punishment than anything I could think up.

Oh come on, it's in my home state! This is how we do politics, people. Just ask Jesse Helms.

At least Dole put it out front in an ad. In the old days, it would have been robo-calls, scurrilous pamphleteering and a whisper campaign.

I invite all North Carolinians to give your opinion directly to Madame Senator Dole yourself

http://dole.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactInformation.ContactForm

Like it or not, we're a Christian nation. I'm not too crazy about that, but that's the way it is.

The irony is that the same folks who hate Mexican immigrants don't realize that all them illegals are Christians too.

Your absolutly correct. It is un-American. It's also Un-American that John McCain objects to rich people paying more taxes. This country and tax laws were founded on the principle of Social Mobility and not creating a European elite where 20% of the people control 80% of the wealth.
It is also scarry that the far left and far right are becoming politically none negociable. The partision politics where everything is jammed down people's throats is not right. We need to bring back the the American principles that made this a great country.

Sadly, McCain and Dole are both people I admired. When I think of their achievements and service to the people of the United States only to turn in what is possibly the twilight of their political lives to base ultra right wing slander is... Well, sad. They have tarnished the reputations they have so carefully nurtured and unfortunately replaced it with hate and bitterness. Dole would probably have won without stooping to such lows. I also believe that McCain would probably have won if he ran as the McCain of 2000. I might would have voted for the old pre-Palin McCain and certainly would have voted for the pre 2000 McCain. As it is I just returned from voting and am happy to say I voted for Obama. Obama has shown grace, understanding and thoughtfulness and that is the type of person that should be President of this great country.

Sally,

In your last paragraph, you have equivocated "atheist" as synonymous with "pagan". Certainly a commentator and moderator of a group called "On Faith" should know that a pagan is a believer in polytheism. This makes you less qualified than all these unlearned bloggers who do not understand how far the founding fathers had been driven from the religious beliefs of the day in their radical notion of separation of church and state. Jefferson was a deist, the most polar opposite of devout piety that existed at that time.

Remember, Liddy Dole learned from one of the best hatchet masters in American politics: her husband, Bob Dole. I guess when it comes to nastiness, they're joined at the hip.

Great article.

It is sad to know that the cover of Chrisitian values and morals that the GOP has presented as their platform is a lie. It always has been and it is just recently that Americans have researched and taken a real stand for their own liberation.

This is great. Thank GOD, ALLAH, Jehovah, Jesus Budda and whoever you choose is just and the truth IS ALWAYS THE LIGHT!

Great article.

It is sad to know that the cover of Chrisitian values and morals that the GOP has presented as their platform is a lie. It always has been and it is just recently that Americans have researched and taken a real stand for their own liberation.

This is great. Thank GOD, ALLAH, Jehovah, Jesus Budda and whoever you choose is just and the truth IS ALWAYS THE LIGHT!

The truly sad part is there are those who will vote for Ms. Dole who see absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. They call themselves 'Christians'.

Thank you, Mrs. Quinn, great article.

I am very much looking forward to seeing the look on Elizabeth Dole's face this evening when she concedes her seat to Kay Hagen.

I agree that religious beliefs should not hold as much sway as other viewpoints. Not to mention the fact that attending church has nothing to do with whether or not someone believes. Most of these people only associate with church because they want to "check the proverbial box".

"Nobody in this country can get elected for high office today by acknowledging the fact that they are an atheist, an agnostic or even a secular humanist. You would have a better chance getting of elected if you were gay."

You might want to check your facts there Sally. Rep. Pete Stark from California is a Secular Humanist. I assume he will be safely re-elected. Is that office not high enough for you? And as time goes on more and more openly gay and lesbian folks are being elected to all sorts of offices.

Apparently there are many more atheist/humanist members of Congress but they are living in that closet because, as you suggest, the yokels in this country think that you must be a Christian to hold office.

yes, marymiserable- a record of flip flops, voting with Bush 90%of the time, questionalble connections with lobbyists (some with very questionable ties to Hussein, Freddie and Fannie, and big oil), a running mate whose husband was a member of a radical Alaskan party advocating secession from the US (and who is a domestic and foreign policy ignoramus to boot), and a man in short so desperate to win he ran the exact same sort of campaign he swore he never would. Yeah- that's some record and why he is not going to be President. Must be the first time in our history the American people would rather go for the "devil" we don't know over the "devil" we do.

(And for the record neither of them are demons- just so YOU know).

I agree with your comments and that Dole's ad was despicable. Shame on her. If there is justice, she will lose today.

Why is it that so many professed Christians behave in ways that are anything but Christian?

I invite anyone to try to correlate the Ten Commandments with the Constitution and laws of the United States.
Must we have no other Gods but one? No, freedom of religion is protected.
Must we not make graven images? Perfectly ok.
Must we not take the name of the Lord our God in vain? No, free speech is protected.
Must we remember the sabbath day and keep it holy? Nope.
Must we not bear false witness against our neighbor? Well, sometimes that is illegal, sometimes legal.
Must we not covet? We must, we must.
Must we honor our father and our mother. I'd give the edge to yes on this one but a soft yes.
Must we not commit adultery? Well, yes and no.
Murder? Not allowed with some exceptions.
Stealing? No.
Any who are statisticians out there will realize that this is a poor correlation. And pretty much every religion has prohibitions against murder and stealing.
So what is the foundation of our legal system folks? It certainly isn't Christianity as it came from the mouth of Jesus, either.
So, the conclusion we should reach is that the religious intolerance movement in this country wants to CHANGE the basis of our laws to coincide with their view of religion. Kind of like the Taliban want to do in their society.

I invite anyone to try to correlate the Ten Commandments with the Constitution and laws of the United States.
Must we have no other Gods but one? No, freedom of religion is protected.
Must we not make graven images? Perfectly ok.
Must we not take the name of the Lord our God in vain? No, free speech is protected.
Must we remember the sabbath day and keep it holy? Nope.
Must we not bear false witness against our neighbor? Well, sometimes that is illegal, sometimes legal.
Must we not covet? We must, we must.
Must we honor our father and our mother. I'd give the edge to yes on this one but a soft yes.
Must we not commit adultery? Well, yes and no.
Murder? Not allowed with some exceptions.
Stealing? No.
Any who are statisticians out there will realize that this is a poor correlation. And pretty much every religion has prohibitions against murder and stealing.
So what is the foundation of our legal system folks? It certainly isn't Christianity as it came from the mouth of Jesus, either.
So, the conclusion we should reach is that the religious intolerance movement in this country wants to CHANGE the basis of our laws to coincide with their view of religion. Kind of like the Taliban want to do in their society.

I invite anyone to try to correlate the Ten Commandments with the Constitution and laws of the United States.
Must we have no other Gods but one? No, freedom of religion is protected.
Must we not make graven images? Perfectly ok.
Must we not take the name of the Lord our God in vain? No, free speech is protected.
Must we remember the sabbath day and keep it holy? Nope.
Must we not bear false witness against our neighbor? Well, sometimes that is illegal, sometimes legal.
Must we not covet? We must, we must.
Must we honor our father and our mother. I'd give the edge to yes on this one but a soft yes.
Must we not commit adultery? Well, yes and no.
Murder? Not allowed with some exceptions.
Stealing? No.
Any who are statisticians out there will realize that this is a poor correlation. And pretty much every religion has prohibitions against murder and stealing.
So what is the foundation of our legal system folks? It certainly isn't Christianity as it came from the mouth of Jesus, either.
So, the conclusion we should reach is that the religious intolerance movement in this country wants to CHANGE the basis of our laws to coincide with their view of religion. Kind of like the Taliban want to do in their society.

Dole is for Bananas, not for Senator.

Spidermook said: "A big portion of the American Constitution was modeled after Christian values and Bible principles"

True, but you're forgetting that Christian values and Bible principles were modeled after existing human values and principles. The Bible is a plaigerism of human experiences and agreements up to that point.

Obviously Elizabeth Dole forgot that our country was founded on religious liberty. She'll have plenty of time to study up on that principle while she's packing her office.
We've been witness to a good bit of religious bigotry in this campaign (the GOP has done a good job of convincing some boneheaded people that Obama is a Muslim terrorist), but Dole clearly wins the 2008 Prize of Shame trophy. We can only hope that she and the GOP learn something important from this campaign: God belongs to everyone, not just your party or candidate or branch of religion.

As a contemporary of John McCain and a Republican, I agree with the the critiicisms of the lack of civility which has marked this campaign. At least we have a record to point to, which is really not the case for Senator Obama.

However, the Senator's elusiveness breaks down in his passionate commitment to Roe vs. Wade without compromise, moving abortion rights forward as a necessary provision for his agenda to enable women to realize their full potential. This echoes back to the demands of the women's movement in the 1960's, where abortion was claimed on the basis of empowermnet.

It is ironic that the first Black president - and from the Land of Lincoln - would free American society from the constraints of conscience in contemplating women's role in the world, and especially since abortion rates are highest among those who are Black and Hispanic.

But if he is elected and fulfills his promise to sign into law the Freedom of Choice Act, we shall have a measure of the man. "Thou shalt not!" vs. "yes we can!" will be an interesting test for Democrats.

Abhab- i suggest you go back to and crack a history book. Christians came here to escape the persecutions of other Christians- you know, you're not my type of christian ergo you have to die kind of thing. French Huguenots, Pilgrims, Catholics, all kinds of Protestants running away from one another. Yes, a lovely time was had by all. Then they involved the Native Americans and did so many nice, christian things for them. Er...make that *to* them.

You guys run a nice Inquisition, I gotta say. Weren't many, if any, atheists in those days.

---------------------------------
XVR&*...whatever the rest wrote:"It is one thing to accord respect to another person's faith. But it quite absurd to accord respect to atheism as if it were a faith.

What this country does stand for is the consent of the governed. Each of the governed has absolute sovereignty to grant or withhold his consent for any reason or no reason. It is perfectly reasonable to wish not to be governed by an atheist."

I guess you don't believe in respecting people? And atheism (humanism, whateverism) is a world view and the right of people to be atheist gets respect under the constitution.

Your line about each of the governed is the thinking of a barbaric anarchist- as an American citizen you are bound by the laws of this country, and those laws are founded under the constitution and Bill of rights. So the day you decide you don't want to be governed by an Atheist, a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist or anyone else duly elected to office I suggest you join that crazy little group in the mountains of Afghanistan because that's how they think. But it is not how an American thinks. See ya- don't the Flag smack you in the butt on your way out.

The problem is not just Republicans, although they are obvious. The problem is that religion is a tool to enforce conformity, not to nourish our hearts. Back to what Diderot said: "We shall not be free until the last king is strangled with entrails of the last priest."

Some of the posters have it right. It isn't so much about Dole but about how far the Republican Party has come to be the party of anything goes to win. The Dole campaign effort is mirrored in several other states where Republican candidates are either losing or face close decisions. It is most startling in the Presidental campaign where McCain and the RNC are issuing so much mud under so many different lines, is almost impossible to keep up.

This election, state or national, is no difference than years past. You have your Willie Hortons, Max Cleland of Georgia, McCains black love child, any of the Nixon campaigns or this years assortments of McCain character assassinations. Other examples can be found over the past several years, all leading to the Republican party.

It is time Americans stand up to this type of campaign retoric instead of embracing it. Its time to reject any candidate following the Republican slash and burn strategy of anything goes to win. Its time to repudiate the Party that encourages it and time for the Republicans gain some shred of decency and to clean up their act.

Thomas Baum said, and said rightly and beautifully:
"As I have said and I repeat, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof, in other words He looks at the person, not the label."

Spidey, God knows the hatred in your heart. What will you say to Him?

Sally Quinn asks:
Is there something wrong with being an Atheist or Muslim in this country?
From what I know about Islam and hear about Atheists , there is plenty wrong. We left the Old World to escape persecution and now they followed us here to persecute us.

I don't consider someone who covets another womans husband distinguised in any way, shape, or form. She was a trollop and will always be one. What goes around, comes around, and I am not surprised with anything she does. Why is it that Republicans say they are Christians and really, really don't understand the tenets of what Jesus said?

A laughable post, even when you consider the source.

You mean voters don't have a right to know a candidate's financial backers? Puh-leeze.

"What's wrong with Hagan going to a Democratic fundraiser in Boston?" Voters can decide that for themselves -- but they have to know about it before they can decide. You better believe Hagan didn't advertise it.

"How was she to know that one of the hosts was on a secular board called 'Godless Americans PAC.'" Oh, gee, I dunno... Maybe by asking a question like, "Hey, who's throwing this fundraiser for me?"

"For Kay Hagan to have to defend herself by claiming that she does in fact believe in God is against everything this country stands for." No, this country does not "stand for" atheism. It is one thing to accord respect to another person's faith. But it quite absurd to accord respect to atheism as if it were a faith.

What this country does stand for is the consent of the governed. Each of the governed has absolute sovereignty to grant or withhold his consent for any reason or no reason. It is perfectly reasonable to wish not to be governed by an atheist.

Republicans make such first-rate bigots. But then again, they've had so much practice over the past several decades...

Thomas Baum wrote " (God is a) Consuming Fire of the PURE LOVE ".

Dream on Thomas. You are the prophet that God refers to as the "LYING PROPHETS".

See how this world will burn in a few years from now because of stupidity and you are a big part of it.

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, SEVERITY; but toward thee, GOODNESS, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be CUT OFF. (Romans 11:22)

Please read that over and over again so your idiocy would cease and avoid infecting others.

Thomas Baum wrote " (God is a) Consuming Fire of the PURE LOVE of God ".

Dream on Thomas. You are the prophet that God refers to as the "LYING PROPHETS".

See how this world will burn in a few years because of stupidity and you are a big part of it.

"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, SEVERITY; but toward thee, GOODNESS, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be CUT OFF. (Romans 11:22)

Please read that over and over again so your idiocy would cease and avoid infecting others.

Contributing to this growing problem is "faith-based funding" which clearly erodes the line separating church and state.

Indeed, for this now questionable separation to regain credence, we must act decisively, beginning with putting an end to faith-based funding.

The next logical step would be an end to the "conscious clause" that allows religioun-affiliated institutions to decline to act within the laws applying to everyone else. These "conscious clauses" have already been questioned as human rights violations by the EU.

Next, we must implement "positional" and financial audits of all religious insitutions to see if they have failed to meet any requirements for tax exempt status. If they have, that status should be removed forthwith. The foregoing would be a necessary precursor for the removal of tax exempt status for all religious institutions, the end date to be announced so as to give these institutions adequate time to seek additional revenues.

Again, unless we act forcefully to reclaim separation of church and state, we can look forward to the continued Balkanization of this country.

Thank you, Thomas Baum, thank you. This Christian salutes you. Please pray for Spidey, he is very, very troubled.

To paraphrase Joseph Welch's response to Senator Joseph McCarthy in the Senator's investigation of the US Army for supposed Communist activities---

"Senator Dole, you've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, Madam? At long last have you left no sense of decency?"

This Pagan thanks you, Thomas Baum. You are a voice of reason and compassion on this board. You are a true Christian.

SPIDERMAN2

Do you really think that a country can be "Christian"?

A person can be "Christian" but a country can not be, being a "Christian" means being aware of one's relationship with God and attempting to live it.

You wrote, "America has been unscathed the past two world wars.", is the physical plant of the country more important than the people of the country because there were many individuals and families that suffered in many different ways from both of the world wars in America.

God is not the putrid pile of pus that you seem to think that He Is, actually He Is a BEING OF PURE LOVE.

God's Wrath is coming upon the whole world exactly when, I don't know, but knowing God's Name is not some kind of magic "get out of wrath" free card.

The night of the sixth day is coming just as Jesus said but the dawning of the seventh day will just as surely come and that is the day that God Blest, Rested and Made Holy.

When Jesus said, "I have come to bring FIRE to this world and I wish it were already burning", well, that FIRE is the Consuming Fire of the PURE LOVE of God and it will burn ALL OF THE CRUDE, so to speak, away.

As I have said and I repeat, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof, in other words He looks at the person, not the label.

God is not the loser that you seem to think that He is and also that you seem to want Him to be.

See you in the Kingdom, remember God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

It's about time some weighed in this that has some DC bona fides and called Dole out on this disgusting ad. What happened to her? She used to exude so much class. Now she just looks OLD.

That portion in the Treaty of Tripoli was clearly written out of ignorance. A big portion of the American Constitution was modeled after Christian values and Bible principles.

Even the doctrine of separation of church and state is a biblical doctrine.

Thank you, Sally Quinn, for hitting every note perfectly in your comdemnation of Dole's ad and your reminder of what religious freedom is all about.

What does it say about the pathetic condition of the Republican Party that even Elizabeth Dole stoops this low because she feels compelled to pander to the right-wing wing nuts to win an election. John McCain blazed the path when he kissed the feet of agent of intolerance Jerry Falwell and then selected Sarah Palin his VP mate to suck up to the same extremists. The Republican Party of Reagan no longer exists. That party is now a burnt-out case. Now, there is only a sad remnant thoroughly controlled by the wing-nuts. Unfortunately, this wing-nut remnant clearly intends to retreat to the veto redoubt in the Senate, where it will exercise veto power over sensible solutions to our national crisis.

Maybe Sen. Dole and Palin can become email pals when they're both sitting at home knitting and watching Maury Povich the next four years.

Does Hagans suit have merit? From this perspective, no. Otherwise half of the radical right would be in court. But it does get your attention to the demonizer slime machine the desperate GOP has evolved into the last 16 years.

See ya, Sen. Dole, don't let the door hit you...

presto668, maybe what I meant was the civilian population. That won't be true anymore in the coming 3rd world war.

A big portion of America will be wiped out as God's punishment for its FALSE RELIGION AND BELIEFS SYSTEM (abortion, gay marriage, athesim, paganism, hollywood sex, religious hypocricy, etc).

A Belief system that is embraced wholeheartedly by the Dems. When the Dems take over, America's security will be diminsihed.

***

A vote for Obama is a vote for toasting the Democratic states in the U.S. in case a nuclear war ensues.

Barack Obama said he supported shifting federal resources away from an “unproven missile defense system” to proven technologies.[25] “I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems,” Obama said.

Ah, yes, Spidey, our resident... idiot? Madman? Troll?

One thing is certain: Spidey's posts are utter madness, logic on drugs, total insanity.

Therefore, Spidey is one of two things:

1. The ultimate troll, inserting totally insane posts, because he gets off on the replies. And I mean literally 'gets off'.

2. He is truly insane, and is dangerous to himself and others, and needs help fast.

I vote for #2.

spidermean2:
"America has been unscathed the past two world wars."

Pearl Harbor? Or does that not count because Hawaii was not a state at the time? And all the casualties? They don't count as being scathed either?

"AMERICA IS A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE SO. If you have a problems with that then you certainly have a big problem coming your way."

Sorry, America was *never* a Christian country. Read the Treaty of Tripoli (1797), article 11 for starters. If you have problems with that I don't think you were paying attention in school.

Speaking of meanness:

In October 2008, The Politico reported that Hagan's husband Chip Hagan III, a former Democratic county leader, had been a member of 1,000-member Greensboro Country Club for years, despite the club's de facto segregation and refusal to admit black members. Over the summer, Chip Hagan had also been criticized by Republicans for part ownership of domestic oil wells as gasoline prices increased for consumers.

On the other hand, "mean" Sarah Palin taxed the oilmen and gave it to her constituents.

That's mean.

Sally wrote "This is not a Christian country any more than it is a Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or atheist country"

America has been unscathed the past two world wars. The third is coming and that won't be true anymore. And those who will suffer most are the people who think that this is not a Christian country anymore.

Colin Powell is an adviser to Bush and it's no wonder we paid dearly in Afghanistan and Iraq. He surely doesn't know TRUE Christianity compared to other religions.

THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE and for NOT knowing that, he proves himself an IDIOT. And idiots can't win wars.

It is possible that we're winning it now coz Powell is out of sight already in the Bush Administration.

AMERICA IS A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE SO. If you have a problems with that then you certainly have a big problem coming your way.

Sally Quinn, you make too much sense. Your argument has too much logic. I hope that is the direction this country is heading come tomorrow. Thank you.

Liddy Dole's ad is an insult to atheists, to Christians, and to any citizen who takes seriously the constitutional right to freedom of religion. I am an atheist now, but there are still many things I admire about the church that I attended as a child. I wonder, though, at what point I became a non-citizen in Liddy's view, unable to enter even the same room as someone who wants to become my Senator? Shall I sit at the back of the bus, perhaps? I am truly disgusted by her attempt to create a new American apartheid based on an utterly puerile and bigoted notion of Christianity. Liddy's job is to represent me, and she has effectively declared that she will not. I think Ms. Dole should not only lose to Kay Hagan; she should be censured by the Senate and removed from office before her term has expired.

You are so right! We are a secular nation, founded on the idea of religous freedom. It is un-American to question people's faith. Thank you for saying so.

Good article. Sadly, it continues to illustrate all too clearly the moral bankruptcy of the GOP.