Welcome to the sacred table

If you can't say Gracie, then maybe you should say George.

To footballgal87 | :

If your quote from president Washington is correct then I have no respect for him and believe he must have had his head stuck in his ___.

This is what I say before every meal: "What the ____ is taking you so long, you piece of _____ microwave?!"

Invoke the name of your deity for the fat-laden bonanza of sodium-soaked refuse you're about to shovel down your gaping gullet.

I'm sure all those who are half-starved, living in the worst of circumstances are confident that GOD, ZEUS, or ALLAH are watching over their welfare.

Do with your religion what you did with your turkey, idiots.

Somehow it seems to me that you can say thanks to who or whevever you believe in in a befitting manner without getting in specifics. I've frequently seen those offering thanks or asking for spiritual guidance to feel they need to be lengthy for the sake of getting their point across, invoking the name of Jesus Christ (or whoever else they wish to name) over and over and over, repeatedly feeling they need to say variations of "In Jesus's name..."

The best and most impressive members of the clergy who've I've been fortunate enough to listen to respect and acknowledge that there may be those of other persuasions present and don't feel the need to be excessive.

On that note, I leave you with the word of the late Irish pundit, Dave Allen, who closed his performances with "May your god go with your."

dungarees@gmail.com

I would love to invite Post columnits Erza Klein, Ruth Marcus, and Harold Meyerson to my Thanksgiving feast, but I know that they would be offended by saying grace. Their dieties are at Arlington National Cemetery, where they worship at the graves of John and Teddy Kennedy.

How sad--because for Ezra I was going to have lots of bacon because I know it's his favorite and he is non-observant.

What to say if there are guests at the table who are not Christians? Well, here's one: "Bless Christ our God the food and the drink of your servants, for you are holy always, both now and forever. Amen."

The disturbing undercurrent of this discussion is that some people are so out of the habit of giving thanks to God that it becomes a big, painful ordeal when they are confronted with a yearly holiday that involves giving thanks. The table is set, everyone is gathered together, and there is the uncomfortable pause as folks look at one another, thinking "OK, don't we have to, er uh, pray or something?" Giving thanks to God, however, is the most basic thing we are called upon to do as humans. Our thankgiving is really all that we can give to God, and we should do so daily, not just once a year.

I'm so impressed that Sally Quinn has taken time off from her very important duties in Babylon to celebrate Thanksgiving.

What do you do at a holiday meal if some want to say grace and others do not?

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Sort of a silly question, and confusing in its experession: who is this "you" -- and how does more than one person speak at the same time?

Are you asking: if some want to have grace said and someone does, can others choose to say Amen or be respectfully quiet? Sure!

By the way, you might want to acknowledge that "saying grace" is a Christian phrase, which is OK! but not common to all faiths.
In Judaism, e.g., individuals may also say something nondenominational, grateful, and graceful, but there are brief, traditional Hebrew blessings for bread and for wine (and for other foods, but those two cover) that are a customary way to begin a (holiday) meal, and Jews would speak of "making kiddush" and "making motzi."
In the Jewish tradition a much longer and collective prayer is said at the *end* of a meal, and in some circumstance some do and some don't join in...

We say grace with out referring directly or indirectly to g**. Works like a charm. We are not thanking Her, but rather an advanced species who lives in the ether.

If you pray somebody could be offended.

If you do not pray nobody gets offended (I think).

The safe way is do not pray.

A Day of Public Thanksgiving and Prayer
In 1789 General George Washington declared by proclamation: “Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection, aid and favors…Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the 26th day of November next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the Beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be: that we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks for his kind care and protection of the people of this country, and for all the great and various favors which he has been pleased to confer upon us.”

I agree with those readers who view this question as making a mountain out of a molehill. When in Rome, do as the Romans -- or, in this case, do as the host or hosting family. If they pray, join hands with them and, if you're a squeamish atheist, see if you can summon the fortitude to be reverent for one quarter of a minute. If you're religious and the family simply dives into the meal, say a quick prayer to yourself and for your loved ones.

But really, this question isn't useful for anybody with common sense or a good upbringing. It sounds like the sort of cheap pedagogical end-of-chapter question you'd expect to find in one of those unbearably sanctimonious textbooks about "pluralism" and "multiculturalism."

While others are saying grace...I pity them for believing in an invisible man in the sky.

While others oare saying grace...I pity them for believing in an invisible man in the sky.

...even the worst-off American still enjoys a far better life than 99% of the rest of the people on Earth.
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That statement is not even remotely true. Have you ever traveled outside of the country? What color is the sky in your world?

For grace at Thanksgiving, I tell the history of Thanksgiving and then thank God for all our blessings. It's not a time to grandstand and shove our beliefs down each others throats.

You could explain that you have started a new scam in which you and Jon Meachem pretend to be religious for the express purpose of empowering , and providing cover for ,those who would infringe on the First Amendment rights of all religions if they could .

"What do you do at a holiday meal if some want to say grace and others do not?"

This has never actually happened in my household or extended family, despite having Buddhists, Jainists, Hindus, Catholics, Southern Baptists, Muslims, AND atheists and agnosts all in the mix. (It's a big family. My parents have nearly a dozen living siblings EACH. And of course we in the younger generation have no issue marrying outside our ethnicity or religious background, so we've brought a lot of "new to us" religions into the family as well)

I'm not sure this isn't a boogeyman question, intended to rile up the faithful into thinking non-practitioners will be rude, as well as intended to make non-practitioners worry that some "evil" person of faith will oppress them into praying. Can't say what I would do because both the people of faith in my family and the people who are non-faithful (if that's not the correct term, I apologize) have all been raised with basic respect for others.

this question harkens back to Sally taking communion at Russert's funeral. When confronted with a potentially contoversial decision, do what ever you please regardless of the situation or other's beliefs. Communion and prayer is a sacred ritual and should be respected even by non practioners, our country is about freedom, to participate, or not to participate and to do either without having to worry about offending others.

The prayerful should pray, others should sit quietly and meditate about stuffing.

this question harkens back to Sally taking communion at Russert's funeral. When confronted with a potentially contoversial decision, do what ever you please regardless of the situation or other's beliefs. Communion and prayer is a sacred ritual and should be respected even by non practioners, our country is about freedom, to participate, or not to participate and to do either without having to worry about offending others.

The prayerful should pray, others should sit quietly and meditate about stuffing.

My Mother was a very, very good teacher of manners; something virtually forgotten today. Even as an adult one should have the good manners to respect other people's wishes at such an occasion. This is just a good example of how America has changed. Our "progression" has left many, many good things behind in the name of "progress". it is a shame, 30 years ago an article such as this would not even have been considered. Sad.

Oh for goodness sakes, just make your friends happy for minute and move on.

If you're that opposed to grace and you know your friends and family members are going to say grace, maybe you shouldn't even be at the celebration.

What a stupid question.

Even while closing bureaus and firing actually working staff the Post continues to provide a forum for Quinn's drivel.

"On Faith", "Sacred Table", what a load of crap coming from someone such as this woman. How about "On Knees" or "Scary Skank"?

To Katherine Weymouth - if you do not rid yourself of this pox you will take the whole organization down, it is already 3/4 of the way there!

As an Agnostic, when at the Thanksgiving table, I just bow my head with rest. I do not pray, but I do recall all the good aspects of my life. I don't feel a need to pray to some God, to feel thankful, but others do and that is their right.

They are at liberty to pray and good manners dictates that you are respectful of that and not interrupt.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here.

Giving thanks on Thanksgiving has nothing to do with God or religion!

If you can't bow your head to give thanks for a meal, you are a pathetic sap!!

Sally is absolutely in the later category!!

Perhaps those who choose not to pray will instead consider the fact that, no matter what our petty squabbles or immediate troubles may be, even the worst-off American still enjoys a far better life than 99% of the rest of the people on Earth.

I'm thankful to live in a nation that still represents -- and offers -- hope to the world, and which remains open and welcoming to people such as Hoang Taing and his/her(?) family.

Thank you, Mr./Ms. Taing, for a much-needed reminder.

You simply bow your head and remain silent. Of course many liberals, being outspoken and noisy rebels, fixated on themselves, would prefer to make a speech about their rights, superstition, intolerance, religion as anti-progressive etc. It's a sign of the times that a column is actually devoted to a subject that simple courtesy should resolve.

I am an atheist. When my family (some who are believers) was whole and came together at Thanksgiving, I found the easist way was to use the blessing that my grandma did. "We are grateful for this feast for the nourishment of our bodies, for the love we share, and may we be always grateful for what we have."*************************************************What is an atheist?

Everyone knows that our folks are people of faith. At the very least, there are 30 of us at family holiday meals. I don't remember a time when we didn't all gather around the pool, or the table in a park, wherever...and hold hands for grace. The prayer "chain" began with whomever was to my mom's right. Those not wishing to add to the thanksgiving prayer simply squeezed the hand of the person to their left.

We have a few professed atheists and agnostics among us, and over the years they've found that it's easy to just say "Thank-you" for something.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and God Bless the troops.

I cannot fathom how this topic is even considered. Have we lost all sense of good manners in this country?

Our individual rights only have traction in how well we preserve (and yes, sometimes tolerate) those rights for others.

When gathered at table (at minimum), those who would pray should do so, and those who would not are obliged not to interrupt. Of course, it would also help if the "prayers" were short and polite, but regardless, non-interruption is a social obligation.

When we cannot manage this basic level of courtesy, I have little hope for our society enduring.

i say grace. they dont want to they dont have to, but i say grace.

Speaking of Thanksgiving specifically, let's look at the original proclamation, spoken by President Washington himself:

"WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness: NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection..."

Don't want to say grace? Fine, then you're completely missing the point of Thanksgiving, and you certainly have no right to judge others for honoring the holiday's original intent.

This is a conundrum?? Don't people just do what nonreligious people do at church weddings and funerals? We hardly protest and refuse to participate then do we?

After a lifetime of agnosticism that has drifted into atheism, I've managed to eat holiday meals without offending my friends and family. When a host/hostess offers grace, no matter how overtly religious, I just bow my head and sit silently as a show of respect. When I am hosting, religious relatives will often ask one of the children to lead us in grace, reminding me it is important to them yet ensuring grace will be short and sweet and often unintentionally funny.

Happy holidays!

PRAY..............

The considerate thing to do is to overlook your immediate discomfort for the minute or so the prayer lasts, and remain respectfully silent. None of your children will undergo theological conversion by being exposed to prayer. If the matter really concerns you, point out that your disbelieve in the views of others does not warrent you rudeness.

For those making the prayer, the onus is to try not to indicate in your wording that all at the table adhere to your belief set. For instance saying "Thank you for all of us being here and well at this table today" is far less offensive than "Praise be to Allah, whose only true prophet is Mohammed, that...". Men and Women of the clergy in cross denominational ceremonies face this dilemna, and they seek to find the common ground between mankind, rather than amplify the differences between us.

Whether you believe in God(s) or not, there is value in thinking of the well being of others at this time of Thanksgiving. A simple shift in focus to what you have from what you lack is of value in and of itself.

Thanksgiving dinner for much of our family/friends circle is held at our house. My husband and I say a very simple grace before meals - "We partake of this food with gratitude for all the blessings of heaven and earht, for the efforts of those who have prepared it, and for those with whom we share it. Blessed be."
Anyone who wishes to join us is welcome to do so, and anyone who wishes to refrain is welcome to go ahead and start eating. My house, my rules.

If I go to someone else's home for a meal, and they wish to say a grace, I participate to the extent that I feel comfortable or I sit quietly until they are done. Their house, their rules.

It's nor rocket science.

Someone oppossed to even the simple saying of Grace once a year before a meal must be a complete ideologue and too far gone to be helped.

Find new friends.

Sally - by even asking the question, I suspect you have been dining alone on Thanksgiving for years now.

I grew up saying grace at every meal. I no longer am a religious person, but I have no issue whatsoever with people saying grace. I respect their beliefs and hopefully they respect mine, at a holiday meal or any other meal. I don't feel insulted or threatened by someone else's practices.
Being polite is not indication that you're being "forced" to participate in a ritual you have no belief in. It's simply being polite. Same goes for those who wish to challenge those who do NOT share your beliefs. Be polite.

Get better friends.

Dear Ms. Quinn,

Greetings to you! I enjoy reading your article "Welcome to the Secred Table" aka "The Party" in which you shared with us your experience on saying a grace before Thanksgiving meal and the question you asked "What do you do at a holiday meal if some want to say grace and others do not?"

I remembered just arriving in the US from a war torn country of Cambodia, my little brother Kheam and my older sister Nai--all three of us were very young--(We were sponsored by an American White Caucasin couple--The Bronec)who introduced us to our first American Thanksgiving celebration.

Mrs. Bronec took us(her husband and all three of us) to her brother Joe's house to celebrate our first Thanksgiving with his family in Houston, Texas.

Before the Civil War that became know as the "Killing Fields" of Cambodia, my own loving parents raised us in a Buddhist household with a traditional Chinese Confucious up-bringing. At a very young age, we attended Buddhist Temples and followed many Buddhist traditions and holidays with prayers as well as offering of good food and celebrations with our loving parents and all of our loved ones.

So on our first American Thanksgiving Day, not only it was a new celebration to us, but we also learned about a very diffent religion as well because The Brownec are Catholic and we only knew about Buddhist religion at that time.

Our first Thanksgiving took place in Houston, where we spent it with Mrs. Bronec's brother Joe and his family. Joe offered a Thanksgiving prayer before the Thanksgiving meal. My older sister Nai, my little brother Kheam and I, did not know much English or understood the importance of Thanksgiving tradition, we just lowered our heads, closed our eyes and listened with respect the Thanksgiving prayer Joe offered.

Since that day, I went on to become a Motivational Speaker and had traveled to over 25 countries in all 7 continents where I met many people from different faith groups that have invited me to share a meal or two with them, as well as shared with them many religious celebrations, and many times, they would announced in advance that I have a choice to participate or not to in a prayer(saying grace). I always choose to participate because I respect all religions, but if someone choose not to participate in saying grace, we need to respect them too because after all this is America-we have the freedom to choose.

Happy Thanksgiving to you all!
- Hoang Taing

Ombudsman1 has it right; although it is a lot to expect that respect would be forthcoming from those who wish to cut religion out of every facet of our lives. Religion is both a private and public issue, just as respect is. Respect does not mean silence. And it is freedom "of" religion, not freedom "from" religion.

Sally, I like the solution you outlined in your column: having the host or hostess make a simple statement expressing general gratitude for the food and fellowship. Guests can thus decide for themselves where to direct their gratitude (to their deity of choice, or to the humans who prepared and offered the food), and no one gets to hijack the proceedings for a 20-minute sermon while the rest of the guests squirm with hunger and discomfort (it happens, believe me). Yours is a lovely, inclusive gesture.

"Sally, you have a knack for making the easy difficult."

I agree....Sally, when the red light is on, it means that is the TV camera to address.

I am an atheist. When my family (some who are believers) was whole and came together at Thanksgiving, I found the easist way was to use the blessing that my grandma did. "We are grateful for this feast for the nourishment of our bodies, for the love we share, and may we be always grateful for what we have."

Wouldn't a prayer at any dinner be the choice of the host or hostess?

I would think that discrete silent prayers could be said by anyone of any religion if the host did not offer one. Those who chose not to pray if one is offered have always had the expectation of enduring a prayer respectfully and silently. I would assume those who choose to pray when one is not being offered can conform to the same respectful behavior.

I guess the question would be if it is important to the individuals to pray or to be seen praying.

"What do you do at a holiday meal if some want to say grace and others do not?"

Umm, let the people say grace who want to, and tell the others to shut up for 20 seconds while it happens?

Sally, you have a knack for making the easy difficult.