America's reputation rests on mosque's test of religious freedom

The Moderate

No question about the right of self-defence, and the UN was also explicit on wars between nation-states. The UN, or rather the UN Security Council, also involves itself in internal conflicts in sanctioning and placing "peacekeepers".

No question too, about people and nations preferring humanitarian assistance or investments in their respective countries rather than direct military assistance in internal conflicts.

As for Pakistan and the Taliban, the history of Taliban was tied to the chaos of Soviet and post Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Afghanistan is not akin to Nazi Germany. It did not declare war on other states. Iraq under Saddam was repressive towards its own citizens, including Shiites and Kurds, and have had war with Iran which it started.

Nazi Germany was nation-state. They declared war. They invaded and occupied other nation states. By the time the US got into war, Nazi Germany was overstretched in invasion, occupation and resources to sustain war and holding on to occupied territories.

Terrorists are non-state/sub-state actors. They are within nation-states which do not declare war with other nation-states. Rooting out terrorists through direct intervention of states deem as rogue or terrorist states, or said to be harbouring terrorists do not necessarily brings about the end of terrorists.

As was, is in the case of Afghanistan and Iraq, it does increase terrorism, or rather armed conflicts with those who characterise themselves as freedom fighters, and mujahideen flowing in from other nation-states.

Not quite so simple to annihilate terrorists who are sprinkled in nation-state without causing "collateral damage" in the process to populations and infrastructures. Not brute force, not shock and awe, not carpet bombing, but smart targetting of terrorists, and to get those not with them on board for rooting out the terrorists successfully.

Terrorists are like weeds. To burn and laid waste a whole field to incinerate some weeds? It takes a bit more patience to uproot the weeds one by one by one by one in specific habitats and the fields they thrive in - areas of conflicts, armed battlefields, and the battlefields for hearts and minds.

Hear Ye/Yo Hear Yo/YE; O' Ishlami's & CO.:

Secret (opposite REVEALation): See:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/iran-if-attacked-our-response-will-be-wide-ranging-and-unpredictable-1.309716

W A R N i N G America & Co:: So; according to me dreams: The Ayatollah Regime, via "Ayatollah-Revenge" and via their new DRONE (a copy cat/Patent from Kafirs), aka "KARAR" or similar will be targeting the K A A B A, at Mecca, in 18 Months; only to blame it on the KAFIRS (U.S. & Coalition , aka KAFIRS). And in me dreams;

The WAHHABI & AYATOLLAH's will (before orchestrated Attack on the Kaaba) will Secretly 1st Remove their Idols & replace them with Fakes. Then they will drop an Atomic (small bomb) on Israel, because the Arabou's Ummah will blame the Kaaba Destruction on Israel & U.S. & Coalition; as Blame Blame Blame.! Note: Like Saying that KAFIRS blew-up WTC; not any Ishlami's??? Pleazza!

RECOMMENDATION:

The Kaaba, at MECCA, Saudi: should have a Special Anti-Missile Dome Built Over its ex-Idols-House {Kaba} or Closet. And Spend 50% of their Income Protecting the Kaaba; IF they care. ELSE; GoodBye KAABA!

So Now, the Plan to Destroy the Kaaba by Ishlami's for Starting a Nuke War, is been REVEALED (opposite Secret) YE/YO All, aye!? Soo BE - C A R E F U L Kafir's. Watch-out for The Elders Of Al-Taqiyah's Great Conspiracy Wars & Pre-Planning's against US! ISRAEL & CO., is DOOMED! Thanks to Pakistan's Atomic Bombs and NEO-Ishlami Turkish Jealousy's! Thank, China too?

Note: The Neo-Ishlami-Turkish 1,200 [un-armed] so-called, NATO folks at Afghanistan are only Spies for the Wahhabi, Ayatollah's and Ottomon's Turk future war plans. Question: How Many Turkish Soldiers in Afghanistan or Iraq got Killed since the Apocalypse?

Note Again: i[WE] have Tape-Recording, from Afghanistan; from a ishlami Turkish NATO Outfit; smoking Hashish with ishlami Tribal Leaders, and Praising & laughing, as if Allah, their "MAGNIFICANT-19" {WTC Martyr's, Bombers/Conspirators}. How Naive & Dumb the Kafirs [Americans et al]! It will be made public in 72 Hours, worldwide!

PS: FACT: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD! Since Summer of 2007!

Dear Jihadist,

(part 3)

"In countering Muslim extremism and terrorism, being blunt is not as useful as being sharp - in knowing the who and why, and in having the right approaches on them, against them."

We must act under certain exigent circumstances, even if you are right that other Moslems can understand them better. Surely we made many mistakes in Iraq, as the Iraqi Ambassador to the US said: You made mistakes when you came, but then you learned and improved. But it would have been better if we had listened and learned sooner from people who know how to be sharp rather than blunt.

Still, with some, blunt force is the only effective option. Knowing the when that is true and when something better could be used is a key issue.

I hope your Holidays are going well. Time to reflect, time to amend our ways for the better, time to be with family and community. These are universals of all serious religions.

Best regards.

Dear Jihadist,

(part 2)

Now, please understand that I do not believe that 9/11 justified our invasion of Iraq because Saddam was not on a path of world conquest, he did not engineer the attacks of September 11th, nor he did he (in spite of his bluffing to scare the Iranians) actually have much in the way of WMD.

But I think the Nazi experience is applicable to Al Qaeda. Those guys are pure poison, like the Nazis were. Eventually the Iraqis found that AQI was simply a bunch of murderous criminals that had to be rooted out because of what they did to so many innocent Iraqis.

For example, the Taliban provided aid, comfort, and military bases to Al Qaeda for its attacks on the US, and they are being actively supported by the Pakistanis. That may be changing a bit now because of the usual terrorist habit of attacking their hosts and allies as well as their enemies. Also because now so much of Pakistan is flooded and in desperate need of humanitarian assistance and the US is leading the charge to save the people who are hungry and sick. Many of the US troops who have been fighting the Pakistani supported Taliban in Afghanistan are now bringing in the food, water, and medical supplies to Pakistanis who so desperately need them. That is a big difference between us and the Taliban and Al Queda. If you invite them into your country they will soon be at your throat. Invite us and we will soon be helping flood victims, or Tsunami victims, or Earthquake victims, or famine victims.

Dear Jihadist,

(part 1)

First, thank you for your thoughtful reply. As in the past you are making many worthwhile observations.

"...it is our responsibility to weed out extremists of the Type A personalities who become terrorists not just by law, but countering and questioning their notions in the public sphere."

I agree, and not just a matter for Islam alone. We also have intolerant Christians, Jews, and Atheists on these blogs, and throughout the political discourse. They are all in need of answering at times. You do have to be careful how you approach this, as some of them are dangerous people.

"It is pointless and futile for non-Muslims to fight against Muslim extremists and terrorists. They would not and could not fully grasp the religious, historical, cultural, and current affairs premises the Muslim extremists are coming from and why. "

I cannot really agree with that one. When people make war on you it is the right of all free peoples to make war in return. Even the UN charter recognizes the right for self-defense. In the West we had Nazis in the mid twentieth century who simply would not be stopped while they could draw a breath. It was necessary to annihilate their armies in the field to stop them. Then we had to occupy their lands and build new institutions there. They are now fast friends and allies with much to teach us. But the political disease of Nazism simply had to be stopped with brute force.

Dear Jihadist,

I posted a somewhat lengthy reply to your interesting comments and it is being held up for moderator approval. Probably too long. If it does not show up by tomorrow I will post it in pieces.

Til then I hope your holidays are going well.

Best regards

Hello Daniel in the Lion's Den,

During Ramadan, on rainy weekends like this, sometimes one don't know how to fill up time usefully and productively.

I just saw a previous On Faith topic on "Eat, Pray and Travel". Essentially, that's the gist of Ramadan too and then some.

There is more prayers at the mosque and reflect on what one do or don't and should have. It's like having New Year's resolutions. Sometimes to have them and break them and then have them again next year.

One don't eat when you fast and then eat at Iftar and then don't eat again until the next Iftar with family, friends, colleagues, clients. One either feel faint like the poor who don't have enough to eat, or one feel lighter and better in body and soul.

One travel around to various mosques or to Mecca and Medina for the Umrah, a sort of mini or secondary Hajj. It feels really good to go around mosques to hear different sermons by different imams and to weight what they said.

One donate to charities and prayed and hope whatever you donated, in cash or kind, gets to the target group, the intended recipients when they actually need them and not months after.

The Ramadan in Indonesia and Malaysia is a bit more sober than those in some Middle East countries where it is like Christmas everyday for the whole month of Ramadan. That's where all the special seaonal decorations and music and food comes into full swing.

I happened to be in Cairo for a few days some years back during Ramadan. After Iftar, they seemed to party like a New Year's party. Quite fun and entertaining actually, and not quite as spiritual as Ramadan is supposed to be.

As for the South, it may be mean before, and some racial and religious supremists may still be mean now and in the future, but from what I've seen in Atlanta, African-Americans seems to be doing well and get along well in governance and business with Caucasian Americans and other groups. But, you would know better.

We have our share of racial supremacists. They shout often and loudly. But they do get shouted back and down nowadays. Racial and religious supremacists always seem surprised when they shouted back on what they say and do, and complained that they are mischaracterised and misunderstood.

The Moderate

No one is 100% sane. Not individuals, not groups, not governments. The most harmless insaneness (rather than insanity) are called quirks. Atheists are sure I am insane to believe in a variation of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I won't say on how Muslim majority states in the Middle East and South Asia are dealing with extremists and terrorists in their midsts. It its particular to their history as well as socio-economic and political enviroment.

Types of education available as well as capacity and willingness of governments to address extremism is obviously pertinent. But there is also the cultural aspect.

Indonesians and Malaysians, in dealing with extremists, are undertaking controversial preventive measures. The hunting down of and detaining terrorists are not controversial.

Muslim extremists and terrorists are best dealt by Muslims by law, and in the battle of hearts and minds. If they purported to "fight" for "us" against them", or for "us" for "us" for our "own good",
then we best know where they are coming from and why.

It is pointless and futile for non-Muslims to fight against Muslim extremists and terrorists. They would not and could not fully grasp the religious, historical, cultural, and current affairs premises the Muslim extremists are coming from and why.

Like you rightly stated, it is our responsibility to weed out extremists of the Type A personalities who become terrorists not just by law, but countering and questioning their notions in the public sphere.

I am more optimistic countering Muslim extremism and terrorism in Indonesia and Malaysia can be done more effectively than in the Palestinian territories, Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan.

But then, we are not bordering any states having serious armed conflicts, or living in states with internal armed conflicts. Besides, the Indonesian and Malaysian governments did make a show of, if not the efforts, to do the right thing, regardless of the actual effectiveness in implementing the "right thing" politically, economically, socially.

Extremists don't take blunt criticism well for they "know" they are "right" and are doing the "right thing" and everyone else is wrong. Now, that is insane, but they don't think they are, and they are "martyrs" of their own insanity in words and actions.

In countering Muslim extremism and terrorism, being blunt is not as useful as being sharp - in knowing the who and why, and in having the right approaches on them, against them.

Screwed up philosophy/religion = Screwed up world view

This is an identity particularly if you are led to believe that you should memorize (through parrot rote learning) the screwed up religious text.

Solution: Have the courage to question your God! Reject Him if necessary. Better to believe in no God than a screwed up one.

The thing is no body has seen Him, heard Him speak, or really know Him. What we read in religious texts is somebody's interpretation of what He says, wants, thinks, or is like. It's our perception of God.

Religion ceases to be useful when it ceases to foster universal love. No religion is worth the paper it is written on if it is unable to generate universal love and compassion. Note the emphasis on the word universal. I reject a God that is not Universal, who does not have messages that are Universal--applicable for all of humanity.

If God Himself is parochial, He is no different than a used car salesman who also favors just the cars on his lot. Who needs a used car salesman as God? No matter if He is touting the Gita, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, whatever.

So, I say three times without fear:

I REJECT SUCH A GOD

I REJECT SUCH A GOD

I REJECT SUCH A GOD

Better that I be an atheist!

t will not be Muslims who will be hurt but all Americans who believe in religious freedom. Just think. Your faith could be next.

Oh please. Would we allow a public display of religious ceremony that demands a human - or even animal - sacrifice? Would we allow a sati - a Hindu religious ceremony, rooted in thousands of years? Not all Muslims are terrorists, it's true, but all terrorists were Muslims, and anybody who reads the Quran and aHadith gets their point. It's up to moderate Muslims to prove their version of Islam is peaceful, not by mouthing off platitudes, but by clearly repudiating parts of their religious texts like this one:
http://www.muslimaccess.com/sunnah/hadeeth/muslim/041.html
"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him."

Since when are Liberals so obsessed with "Religious Freedom?" AND the Constitution??

Pfft! What a joke!

Eboo Patel & CO:

ALL, EVERY & ANY {American Based} "iShlamite"s and or "Esuaite"s {aka PELEG-ians, aka, Stanic VerUS lovers of the "ELDERS OF AL-TAQIYAH" et al] islami's should Become "METHODISTS" or Mormon's..

PS: "Nation Of Islam" don't like "white-Crackers" let alone Kafirs. Please go clean-up Chicago ill-inois. Move Cardoba CULTture/SECTion House there.

Note: G.W. & CO; TOld Ye/Yo's a Big-Lie! He & they know the "Art of DO-n-Then-Deny".

Heck; Even (another Methodist) Bill Clinton, from Ala-mater George Town University, Know this tool (Wordmerchantizing; "Persuasion-Packaging" i[WE] call it). Note again:

I'm Go'n Fish'n! {WE use sand-Worms n Spearings for Baith). Interesting. Did Ye Know that it is now proven that fish Listen n talk? But WW[i] Apocalyptic-ON's; Not Pre-Apocalyptic-offs, art not Fish!

"QUOTE" The old adage used to be; There is a Sucker Born'th every minute" [similar]; but, but now it's more like ; "There a sucker Born every 15-Seconds" or So.

Dear Ms. Quinn,

What cowards you and your ilk really are.

The controversy over the mosque near Ground Zero is exactly what bin Laden wishes for (or would wish if he is still alive). Keeping framing this as a battle against Islam, that is what he's been saying and plays right into this hands.

If everyone thought like us ( Judeo-Christian values ), Ms. Quinn's argument would be valid and logical.

See how free and tolerant we are !!

Right...............but they don't. This will be looked upon by the Muslim World as the ultimate sign of a weak, decadent society and culture.

Islam is not a 'religion' as we understand the word.It is a nation cum culture.

Ms. Quinn is nothing more than a 'useful idiot'..........an idealist who thinks stoning of women is just an abberation, like a trailer trash wife beater.

It is not. It has never undergone a reformation like Christianity. No 'central authority' has banned stoning. Because it isn't there.

I can see it now.......Twin Minarets...........and PR releases from "The Grand Center of Islam at Ground Zero"

Useful idiots.............all of them.

I can smell November already.

PS..........former SDS sympathizer here !

This has nothing to do with religion. For example, we would never tolerate a Nazi Memorial to be built anywhere in the US because Nazism is based on prejudice, hatred, and world domination. Likewise, Islam is a political system with the exact same goals of world domination.

Not tolerating Nazis does not make us a bigoted people. Not tolerating Islam is not evil, it is self-defense. That you, Sally, do not know the true nature of Islam is sad. If you only knew the truth, you poor deluded soul.

Dear Jihadist

I do not know a thing about Ramadan. Maybe you could tell a little about it. Maybe the main thread might be a better place for that, since there is no essay commentary to interrupt.

I imagine that the whole "Ramadan-thing" might be a little like the "Christmas-thing," with a wide range of celebration, and parties, and speacial seaonal decorations and music and food, which a lot of people seem to love, but a lot of other people just endure it, with cynicism and even depression, until it is over.

But what kinds of things do people do during Ramadan? I am curious, since I don't know.

Dear Jihadist

I grew up in the the South in the 1950's and 60's. It was a mean, mean society, where the very worst of humanity dominated all political and cultural institutions, and where every good and well intentioned person was intimidated and harrassed into silence. This was the heritage, the shattered remains, rather, of brutal slavery, and a brutal war to smash it; this was a dislocated society, that was never set right.

During the 60's and onward, the entire social and political system of the South has been up-ended. But those bad people are still there. Today, there are probably about 30 to 50 million Americans who are hard core white racist supremicists.

But here we are now, with a black President, someting that is still amazing to me, considering all that I witnessed growing up.

I guess what I am saying is something that you and I both already know, that there are good people and bad people in the world, everywhere. It is always a struggle; maybe it will never end.

Jihadist,

"And when is the Grandmaster Dragon or something like that, of the Cuckoo Clan or the Ku Klux Klan, coming in this thread for my further education on the various hues and stripes of Americans?"

Having corresponded with you in the past, I know that you are a sane and reasonable person. Still I want to say that J. Edgar Hoover, while certainly less than a perfect man, lead the FBI as it took the KKK down under Lyndon Johnson. I think if you were to see a Klansman opine here you would see just how fast he would be taken down too.

Actually, I have often commented to friends that the present state of Islam is much like the Christian churches of the Postbellum American South which gave succor and concealment to a substantial minority of terrorist criminals. We took them down, surely too late in history, but we did finally do it. Now it is the job of every reasonable Mohammedan to help do the same to your substantial terrorist minority.

Sorry to be that blunt. I do respect your intellect and participation in the discourse, but that is the bottom line.

Hello Daniel in the Lion's Den,

I'm used to rants, vents and biles about Islam and Muslims and the Prophet.

Just that, since Ramadan started, I have not been coming to "On Faith". I have been reading news in "expanded" form over those from the telly in the Net, including from Washington Post.

It's Krauthammer's essay on Park 51 which caught my eye and made me look in here in On Faith again. You should have read the threads re Krauthammer's essays -spicy, spicy, spicy, like "On Faith" threads was before and all that din!

There are quite a bit of and bite by passionate American conservatives and extremists. Reminds me of how Muslim "moderates" can be "shouted" down and out by the more immoderate Muslims, with their emotionalism and accusations of Muslims who don't agree with them are liberals and such.

Frankly, as a foreigner, who do visit the US then and now, I am sometimes startled by the venon expressed by some Americans, including taxi drivers against the American president and migrants, including Mexicans. They do sound like some Malaysians on race and religion and migrants.

It is dismaying to know racism and bigotry, emotionalism and irrationalism are still extant in developed countries in Europe and America and not in developing countries with multicultural societies.

I am still not too sure if the current economic uncertainty with attendant social insecurities hightens that in the west for they certainly do in Malaysia if and when the economy is not doing well.

I read "On Faith" to see how Americans deal with matters related to race and religion and learn from it. Looks like we are all still learning to deal with multiculturalism in all its outward glories and dark underbelly.

Anyway, I'm looking in "On Faith" now and then at this time. This is, after all, Ramadan, and matters related to Ramadan do matter to me.

Regards

J

Sally,

I hope your are listening to JanRyan and Okpulot Taha. Because doing a quick search for "Sharia Law in the EU" on google brings up some frightening cases. Why the religion of a person should excuse him from the laws of the land, and allow wife beating in Germany just because it is allowed in Morocco is completely unclear.

In America, we have Free Exercise clause that says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. From this we derive that no special respect is due to the laws of religions in the laws of our land. It will come up, so you better get ready to defend the culture that nourishes you and makes you a free woman. Just wait for it, soon they will say that their daughters should not be allowed to attend public schools, or any others, for that matter because they are "unSharia" in their teachings. It is the same principle.

Dear Ms. Quinn _

I celebrate your opinion on the GZM, the "conspiratists" that oppose it, and your proclamation that the United States is the land of religious freedom.

It is lacking persuasiveness, amateurish, and actually wholly what I expect from the WaPo.

Just a hint: Have you ever read "The Haj" by Leon Uris?

You are most welcome.

Jihadist

Whenever I post anything critical of Islam, I always think of you, and worry and hope that I am not saying anything that would be offensive to you.

But put yourself in our position, that of an American. The rise of Islamic influence in America, which is very strange and alien to us, together with the threat of Islamic extremism, has put a great deal of stress on our society.

It is naive, isn't it? to suppose that there would not be any reaction. This is just something that we are all going to have to work through, as the peoples of the world become more and more intermingled.

I do not think that America is doing SO bad, reforming and reshaping itself in a changeing world.

Jihadist

You expect too much of America. Except for the original inhabitants, we are all people who have fled an old country under extreme economic or political pressure. And once here, American immigrants have always sought to have a political system that would avoid the mistakes that drove them away from "home" in the first place.

But it is not always so easy, and there is nothing written in stone that makes Americans better and more fair than any other people. The Constitution is just a piece of paper and does not cause anything to happen. The Constitution only operates properly and fairly, if there is general cultural agreement with it. But, here, as anywhere, anything can happen.

America is a great whirlwind of babbling arguing factions, all believe they are right, all believe their side should prevail, and then it all shakes out, into some kind of reasonable or sane consensus, at least we hope so.

The alternative would be civil war, which by the way, we also had one of those, too.

And also, by the way, anyone with an ounce of sense knows that Sarah Palin is an air-bag, and Newt Gringritch is a middle-aged bitter little fat kid, but even they have freedom of speech, no matter how dumb, stupid, and obnoxious they are.

SUPPORT THE MOVEMENT TO ESTABLISH GROUND ZERO AND THE GROUND AROUND IT AS A NATIONAL PARK AND WAR MEMORIAL

Americans from every corner of the United States died there and in foreign lands since. Americans from all parts of America have sacrificed for liberty and freedom through the ages. Let's recognize them permanently.

Hey Sally, Sweetheart,

What ever became of my comments on the Ground Zero Mosque and Kohlberg's Hierarchy of Moral Reasoning????

A Little Too Much Truth on Your Lower Level of Thinking for You??

JEANRYAN1752 comments, "Time to switch to the New York Times article titled 'Islamic Center Exposes Mixed Feelings' by Raul Vitello."

Raul Vitello enjoys journalistic integrity. His articles typically present well balanced views, pro and con. I enjoy reading Vitello and I avoid treating Vitello harshly. He earns respect; he proves himself.

This article you reference is well written. Vitello makes effort to seek out diverse opinions from Muslims. Vitello presents both sides of this issue from a Muslim perspective, again pro and con. Most enjoyable is Vitello presents his article in an anecdotal story telling format. This makes for an interesting read, makes for personalized read. Vitello includes photos of those he interviewed which adds a human touch to his article.

If I am to critique Vitello this is his only citing one female Muslim and citing seven male Muslims. Mine is not to suggest masculine sexism on the part of Vitello but I would suggest he probably had problems finding Muslim women brave enough to speak up, or had problems finding Muslim women simply out in public.

People too often forget about notions like this, a notion of female Muslims being suppressed and fearful. There are no Ann Coulter like female Muslims because of Islamic cultural behaviors. This is subtle reflection upon issues we conservatives truthfully address; Islamic misogyny.

Vitello is a good writer and a truthful writer. He is worth reading, he adds value and knowledge to our lives.

Rather ironic Vitello writes for one of the most obsessively left liberal Yellow Journalism tabloids, the New York Times.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Time to switch to the New York Times article titled "Islamic Center Exposes Mixed Feelings" by Raul Vitello.

Listen up liberal dummies: Freedom of religion and free speech are red herring arguments meant to distract. NO ONE ever said they can't build a mosque. The request is that it just be built somewhere else: just not THERE.

Americans the rest of the world were asked to show "sensitivity" concerning some cartoons depicting images of mohammad. Now we're asking for some sensitivity for the 70% of Americans and the families of the victims who feel hurt by the desire to build so close to Ground Zero.

And it's not like they HAVE to build it there. They CHOOSE to build it there. Governor Paterson offered to find them a new property and they turned that offer down.

And remember why is it called the "Cordoba Project". This is a reference to the fact that islam encourages arabs to build mosques a sign of victory over an enemy: remember the Church of the Sepulchre and the Wailing Wall (The Kotel) both have victory mosques on them. And those are just the two most famous examples.

I doubt I will ever see this in print here as they are now censoring what I am writing. I just got that message on my last post about Kohlberg's Heirarchy of Moral Reasoning. This theory is well known and well respected and taught in public schools.

What is coming next???

Remember something about freedom of the press and the first amendment??

JEANRYAN1752 comments, "...when you wear your burka and congratulate your fellow Muslims on their Honor Killings of women...."

Just finished reading a story sent to me by a friend. This is a story of a Muslim husband and father, a story of a Muslim wife and mother, both of whom lived here in America for thirty years.

I would assume this father and mother would have adopted our ways and moral values after living in America for thirty years.

Father and mother spied on their two daughters, until those girls reached their late teens. Those Muslim parents became enraged their daughters were becoming too westernized.

Their Muslim father fetches a gun, with the support of their mother, fetched a gun, took his daughters to a remote area and shot both of his daughters dead.

Then he fled, never seen again and is presumed to be back in Egypt. His fleeing is clear evidence this father well knew his killing his daughters is wrongful; he refused to accept responsibility for and consequences of his slaughtering his own daughters.

There is a notion more offensive. Our left liberal "lamestream" media refused to report on this slaughter of those two teenage girls. Left liberals excused this as an "honor killing" under Islamic beliefs.

"This would not be politically correct to report on Muslim parents killing their children."

Fox News bravely reported this slaughter of two teenage girls in the name of Islam, in the name of God.

This is one of the more insidious aspects of left liberals; concealing and denying truth. Left liberals do not hesitate to lie to America to effect their political agenda which is truly "social engineering", a form of tyranny.

Related, yesterday Associated Press (AP) advised their reporters they are no longer allowed to use this expression "Ground Zero Mosque" in their news stories. Along with this, AP provided "factoids" which paint this mosque, Rauf and the Islamic in the best of a light.

"You will only report positive stories about Islam."

All AP left out is a closing, "Allahu Akbar!"

Associated Press is under the complete control of Obama and Islam, AP is having their reporters lie to America to protect Islam.

How are we Americans to learn of truth while our government, while Islam, controls our news media?

AP should be nicknamed "Allah Press".

Left liberals scream about religious freedom, quite falsely, then turn right around and render our mainstream news media into a government propaganda machine at the service of Obama and Islam.

Left liberals are shredding our Constitution. Obama is urinating on our Constitution and Obama is urinating on Ground Zero.

Allahu Akbar!

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Building a mosque at Ground Zero is Stealth Jihad and an epic travesty. I equate it with building a memorial to the 9/11 hijackers. The 'Useful Idiots' who back this project are the same enablers who think Islam means peace rather than 'submission'. The atrocities and mutilation of women done by the followers of Islam, the religion of submission, are legion.

Test.

LUCIDTHOUGHT comments, "Islam is a morally bankrupt faith...."

You speak plain truth. You and I, all of us could write a million pages worth of morally repugnant atrocities committed by Muslims all around our world. Some of those horrific acts committed by Muslims are of such a nature, I will not write of those here in a public forum; too shocking.

Obama, Pelosi, the rest of their left liberal gang instantly label patriotic Americans as "racists" for their not welcoming Islam into America. They label us "racists" while deliberately ignoring those shocking atrocities committed by Muslims all around our world. Left liberals engage in deep denial of monstrous acts perpetrated by Muslims...

...all around our world.

Nonetheless, patriotic Americans are labeled "racists" for our daring to object to heinous repugnant acts committed by Muslims.

Left liberals allege to support freedom of religion while refusing to acknowledge Islam is populated by murderous maniacs.

This hypocrisy displayed by Obama, Pelosi and left liberals is more offensive, significantly more offensive then Muslims cutting off the noses and ears of teenage girls.

Left liberals are lending their full support of brutalizing, torturing, maiming and killing of people by Muslims.

This left liberal support of all which patriotic Americans find absolutely repugnant is the greatest of offenses against humanity.

Left liberals are, de facto, worse than the worst of the Islamic.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

JEANRYAN1752 comments, "But I am not so naive as to not smell trouble when I smell blood ..... the blood of innocents!"

Time magazine displays a tragic photograph on their front cover which will bring tears to your eyes. This cover photo is of a teenage Muslim girl with her nose and ears cut off.

Readers are invited to learn of this girl's tragic story, invited to learn of her torturous life under Islam.

When left liberals embrace Islam, left liberals are also embracing this type of vile and evil treatment of girls and women by the Islamic.

I have personal issues with Obama and left liberals openly embracing pure evil.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

"Purlgurl/Okpulot Taha" of "Chocktaw Nation" taking up the case of Muslims oppression of other Muslims overseas, and to stop immigration by the Muslim hordes.

"Purlgurl" can correct my English here all she wants. It is not my native language, nor is it my national language.

It certainly seem to "vindicate" some "mainstream" and "Real Americans" against immigration of groups deemed cannot possibly be "real" Americans.

Interesting to see Americans who don't care for, nor think of their fellow Americans who are American Indians and Indian Americans now suddenly stand heads and shoulders with American Indians and Indian Americans who agree with them on this.

And this, regardless of the fact that American Indians and Indian Americans are also minority groups in America, some of whom alleged they are discriminated against, they experience marginalisations by "mainstream" America.

Interesting to see Americans of various hues and stripes politically, socially, culturally, religiously all "standing up" as "Real Americans" in the manufactured and fatuous notion that Islam and Muslims are out to conquer and dominate America in an "Islamic" version of "Manifest Destiny".

Only in America still there is the "Nation of Islam" and "Choktaw Nation" too. Any other "nations" within America I don't know of yet?

There seem to be a pattern. For some, America is a not a multicultural country under an inclusive tent. It is a multicultural country of a thousand tents at least.

And when is the Grandmaster Dragon or something like that, of the Cuckoo Clan or the Ku Klux Klan, coming in this thread for my further education on the various hues and stripes of Americans?

Just follow the madding mob tarring and feathering Obama as an alleged Muslim, as an unPatriotic American, as an unTrue American, as a Leftist, as a Liberal, as an intellectual, as an Indonesian, as a Kenyan ....

That's a lot which some, many Americans are against, both domestic and foreign.

Sally, BABE...

Thanks a lot for the heads up on who to follow here and in Europe in the fight against encroaching Islam. If the US is so materialistic, and that is against the tenets of the Muslims, then why in the world are they coming here in droves ??? Can't be to join in the celebration of Freedom of Religion and kindness and peace, while DEMANDING their Rights!!!

Read your Koran, Honey. The part about non-believers and what to do with them. You sound like any other liberal journalist....... naive and unread and not at all informed. Nothing factual and scientific about a liberal arts major. Why start now. Your lack of logical thinking is showing. Bet you never took a class in logic in college !!!

Good luck with memorizing the Koran, Toots. With your logic, you better hurry, because you will need it when you wear your burka and congratulate your fellow Muslims on their Honor Killings of women... or are those people just more radicals of Islam also. I guess the question becomes then, how many different kinds of "Radicals" does Islam produce ???

As for me:

I Love America and will fight to the death to protect it and our freedom loving way of life as my forefathers did all the way back to the Revolutionary War.

But I am not so naive as to not smell trouble when I smell blood ..... the blood of innocents !!!

CATHERINEZ comments, "I want to see your next op ed piece be written on the need for prayer in schools...."

This is acceptable while religion is not forced upon a single child nor adult. When Christians "force" religion upon others, they are no better than Muslims; both are wrong. Students are to be given a choice to pray or not. As a general rule, I do not support prayer in public schools.

During my childhood, some of my elders are very old and remember. They told me stories of being taken away from their parents, sent off to Christian boarding schools whereupon their hair is cut off, they are stripped of their traditional clothing and when one spoke in our native tongue, punishment was a bar of soap shoved into his mouth, literally.

We are to never force religion upon our American children nor adults.

CATHERINEZ continues, "...the right of Christian students to hold prayer meetings on campus...."

This is to be strongly supported. Joining a Christian club on campus is a freewill choice. This is freedom of religion at its best; none are forced to believe. I strongly support campus Christian clubs.

CATHERINEZ finishes, "...the wearing of religious jewelry at school and places of work as a right."

This is never a "right" at work. Employers set the rules. Those rules are to be obeyed.

Imane Boudlal, a young Muslim woman, is causing a lot of problems for Disneyland here in California. She demands a right to wear her hijab although her job requires she wear a costume provided by Disneyland. Boudlal has no right to demand she be allowed to wear her hijab. Disneyland is a private enterprise, Disneyland sets the rules.

Disneyland graciously offered her a work position off stage out of of public view, Boudlal refused. Disneyland sent her home. Now Boudlal is suing Disneyland.

No matter the religion, none have a right to force their religious believes upon a private enterprise, nor upon school children.

Muslim or Christian, no difference, the Pope does not have a right to wear his ornate robes and funny looking hat while an employee working in Walt Disney's Jungle Cruise ride attraction.

We revere freedom of religion. We also revere freedom of no religion. This right is to be fiercely protected while religion is not forced upon us.

This mosque on Ground Zero is forcing of Islam upon America through poorly veiled deceit by Muslims.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

Islam is a morally bankrupt faith which, at this very moment, is fomenting the full-scale persecution of non-Muslims around the world. If tolerance is so vitally important to Muslims, then why don't they practice it? What other faith is out stoning homosexuals and adulterers? Or insisting that women cover themselves for the sake of "modesty" because their men are apparently no more civilized than rutting animals and simply can't be held responsible for their behavior if they see... a woman's hair!! Religion of peace... please. More like a religion of Neanderthals. If there are moderate Muslims who denounce the violence associated with their "faith," then where are they?! The sad truth is, they either sympathize with the extremists, or they're cowed by them. If Islam speaks to you, I pity your weakmindedness.

"good thing that Muslims are always takeing (sic) the initiations in civilizing mankind..." Right, pal, like cutting off one's hand for theft,
keeping women in purdah and away from schools, and stoning adulterers to death, not to mention advocating that any Muslim who abandons his faith be considered an infidel who should justly and peremptorily be hunted down and killed. However, you are surely a Muslim who is proudly and pasionately defending his faith, while you, Miss Quinn, though charming, good-hearted and well-meaning, have no such excuse, displaying one of the keenest grips on evasive, shallow, ignorant and illogical argument the world of print has surely ever seen. In your comely youth had you lived in Los Angeles you would been tolerated as a "bimbo" lacking the redeeming good sense of Billy Dawn.

Some rather fun reporting from Andrew Grossman of the Wall Street Journal:

"...a stripper who gave her name as Cassandra was working the afternoon shift at New York Dolls on Murray Street — just around the corner. She worried that calls to prayer from the mosque at Park51 might wake up neighbors. But when she was told that the organizers aren’t planning loudspeakers, she said she didn’t have a problem with the project."

Cassandra is a very smart girl. She would make a good American Indian, she is highly pragmatic: "I work nights, I need to sleep late. Don't mess up my gig, I'm trying to earn a living."

Her mind is not clouded by religion nor fogged by moral values. Her thinking is logical and rational: "Don't diminish my ability to survive."

Kudos to Cassandra for her being a hard working smart girl well in touch with reality.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

"You can't really be that DERANGED ... and ... hold down a job at the Post."

You can if you're sleeping with the Post's Vice President and former Executive Editor.

Lifestyles of orthodox Christians, Jews,and Muslims are similar,each believes in traditional family values. If sharia law was declared in the US there would be little change in their lifestyles. Those that will be affected are homosexuals, drug addicts, and prostitutes, they would not be tolerated. Women would be protected by their families and given a burka to hide their beauty. Sharia law is now being followed in most parts by millions of Americans thanks to the wisdom of the prophet Mohammed.

Joey

Just that you are big stupid muscle headed moron. That's my point.

I have a challenge for you, Ms. Quinn. If you are suddenly so supportive of "religious freedom" I want to see your next op ed piece be written on the need for prayer in schools, the right of Christian students to hold prayer meetings on campus, the wearing of religious jewelry at school and places of work as a right. Also demand that schools that demean Christianity lose all funding. Put your money where your mouth is, deary, or you'll look like the progressive shill that you are.

When extreme bigots like Sally show a little more tolerance towards Christianity, then someone might take her seriously.

How in the name of hypocrisy can she rant and rave about Christians who express their opposition to same sex marriage peacefully and through the ballot box and at the same time advocate for a religion that radically denounces homosexuality to the point of stoning them to death? Sally is truly intellectually vacant.

What about the St Nicholas Church?

neo cordoba.

islam not only civlized medival europ materialisticaly but up graded the level of thought of world wide mankind as well,

in return, medival mentality christians and daughter secularism drove not only muslims out but other minorities.

laws and democratism will die soon for christianism .

good thing that muslims are always takeing the initiations in civilizing mankind,
they started in medival europ where people were slaves to images and holy popes,

and also took the initiation to open an interfaith center near or far from GZ where christiants,moralists,patriosts,name it ???were absent.(even the federal gov).

oh god bless merica real soooooo good and lift her from the deep cave of medivalism ,

oh holy founding fathers pull their medival dumb ears.

When the left disagrees with someone they immediately go into name calling. If you disagree with the 30% of them , you are a racist, bigot, homophobe who is either a toothless hillbilly or a Nazi sympathizer.

It is amazing that those proposing the mosque seem so insensitive to the wishes of so many in this country and all the left does is find new ways to insult. The left constantly disregards the constitution and respect for religion except now they are defenders of Islam.
Islam has a lot of problems and one is their public image. Somehow this in your face approach to this project and the lefts continual name calling don't seem the correct avenue to change the attitude.

Ruling class wants mosque

Bitter clingers know its wrong

November will come.

The same dumb Americans who believe Obama is a Muslim, think that they were attacked by Islam and not terrorists. That's why I liken Faux news to a Christian madrassah. Its raising a whole generation of angry, idiotic, bigoted Americans.

......err Danny boy? Whats your point?

Yasseryousufi

If you believe in freedom of religion and the separation of church and state, (more generally, religion and state) for all people everywhere, then please just say that in plain English.

Otherwise, please shutup.

Yes, you've really got it; defiant anger is the way to get people to stop fearing Muslims.

Religious zealotry destroyed the Twin Towers, in this case, Islamic religious zealotry. Christianity and Islam are mirror images of each other, and THAT is the problem, too much religion, too much praying, too much instruction on what God wants, believes, feels, and thinks, too much religious entitlement, intolerance, and pretension, too much fake piety.

Islam has a terrible stain on it since 9/11 which is not going away until everyone of my generation has laid down and died. That is a fact that you cannot face. What other reaction would you expect? Really! Tell us all, so we will know better how to act and feel that meets with your approval.

Poor, poor victimized Islam; with a reputation of flamboyant intolerance, and victimhood; blame every one and every thing for all the problems of Islam, America, Western colonialism, atheism, Christianity, gay people, the Hindus,the modern world, secularism, the Jews, Israel.

Please just give it a rest.

JEANRYAN1752 comments, "Your words express what I have been feeling and I thank you."

Please don't. Like you I am simply expressing what a majority of Americans feel. I am nothing more than another voice speaking for those who cannot; our fallen heroines and heroes from our nation's birth to today. I am speaking for them, you are speaking for them, others here are speaking for those who cannot.

This is our obligation, we are to honor all who contributed to our nation whether during times of peace or during times of war. We are charged with this responsibility, this is a small price to pay for freedoms earned for us by others, past and present.

Should we say "thank you" this should be a thanks to all of us who honor our nation by never forgetting those many sacrifices Americans made for us, and still do.

From a baby with a bright future, to our police officers, to our girls and boys fighting our wars, to the retired elderly who worked for decades at being productive, we owe them our thanks and we owe them to defend our America from enemies within and without, even when our weapons are only words.

Rather than thank me, Jean, let's lean on each other then whisper into each others ears, "Thank you for being an American."

Thank you, Jean, you are truly too kind, many here are simply too kind.

Jean closes, "How can I follow what you are writing after this article?"

Just follow that angry mob of torch carrying, hanging noose wielding left liberals out to be rid of me and every other America loving patriot. Where there is a big ruckus amongst left liberals, I will be in the middle of it all.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

The winds of fascism are blowing all over Europe and America. Hatemongers with their cloaks and hoodies are abound with their fantastical stories of evil Muslims taking over. Muslims all of 1% of American population gonna take over with their Shariah Courts!!! Those Shariah Courts in Europe that pass judgments on inheritance and divorce related issues that are not even binding! I wish there was a fact check on some of these lies being perpetrated here and by Gingrich, Faux News etc. There blood lust isn't yet satiated with the murder of a million Iraqis apart from absolute destruction of two muslims countries. How much more blood do the 9/11 families lust for? All of 'em 1.5 Billion?

test~!

Okpulat Taha,

Your words express what I have been feeling and I thank you.

How can I follow what you are writing after this article?

JEANRYAN1752 comments, "to remember where GROUND ZERO WAS and .....IS TODAY?"

Ground Zero is found in the heart of every patriotic American. Our entire nation is Ground Zero.

We will never forget, Jean, never. We will lean on each other, we will weep, and we will never forget.

We are patriotic Americans standing tall for our nation, standing tall and strong for our home, America.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

OKPULOT TAHA

MAY YOU LIVE FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS AND IN THE WINDS THAT SPEAK ONLY TRUTH. YOU ARE BELOVED FOR YOUR WISDOM. AND I STAND WITH YOU IN FREEDOM TO DEFEND OUR BELOVED AMERICA. I, TOO COME FROM GREAT WARRIORS THAT CHERISHED FREEDOM ABOVE ALL ELSE AND I, TOO, WILL DIE FOR FREEDOM AND THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIVE WE CHERISH.

LONG LIVE AMERICA

LONG LIVE FREEDOM

AMERICA, CHI HULLO LI NA BILLIA CHIH !!

AMERICA, I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER !!

THANK YOU, OKPULOT TAHA.

If Islam was just another religion, no problem. Unfortunately, it comes intertwined with a totalitarian ideology that not only is meant to GOVERN all aspects of its follower's life (men first, then boys, then the rest, including animals and women) it also prescribes the severely restricted position in society of non-muslims.

Take away the veil of religion and what you are left with is a barbaric, totalitarian tribal culture that will destroy and kill anything that smells of freedom and progress.

Islam should never be allowed to pass for just a religion. Imagine if communism or national socialism would have posed as religions?

Constance_Goforth comments, "Okpulot Taha - I'm an instant and devoted fan of yours!"

Oh, now, don't you go talking like that. You come on over here and walk shoulder-to-shoulder with me, we can lean on each other. This is what we patriotic Americans do.

Besides, you keep going on like you are, Sally Quinn up there might take to thinking I'm a better writer and a more truthful writer than she. Shoot, girl, you might have her questioning her personal perspective on tolerance.

Mixing left liberal bleeding heart tolerance and psychotic political correctness often proves a fatal tonic.

Challenge here, Constance, is keeping our mind's eye open and keeping our mind's eye vision clear. Some may label me a cynic but I see out there in our world almost all peoples looking for advantage over others, specifically chasing after money and power, not necessarily in that order. When a peoples approach and offer an olive branch, this is sure to be a ploy, a ruse, a guise.

This mega mosque is wrapped with double speak and secrecy by all debating this issue, Muslims and Americans alike. My mind's eye does not see a wrapping of truth, rather a wrapping of deceit. What I see is a contest between talented liars, a contest to decide who can fool our world the best, a contest for the riches and the spoils, whatever those may be to each.

This mosque issue is like a porcupine, no safe place to touch, no way to get at truth.

Within my traditional culture, Constance, we challenge each other constantly to hone our minds and to hone our survival skills. We challenge strangers the same; prove yourself. To date, Rauf and Obama, neither have proven themselves rather each has wrapped himself within a cocoon of political slippery semantics. Both have soundly failed my test of "prove yourself."

Almost all, from president to imam to political pundit to blogger, almost all are posturing and puffing their chests seeking ego satiation, and almost all are being deceitful.

There is only one resolution to this mosque issue. This resolution is truth. There will never be resolution.

Mixing left liberal bleeding heart tolerance and psychotic political correctness often proves a fatal tonic. This tonic proves fatal by blinding our mind's eye to truth.

Thank you for your kind words, Constance.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

SALLY, SALLY, SALLY ..... You sound so ADDLED in the head, so CONFUSED and MIXED UP and really, really OUT OF TOUCH and TONE DEAF and failing to remember !!!

Let me guess ...... it's all for the ratings. You can't really be that DERANGED ... and ... hold down a job at the Post.

Would you really like any New Yorker to show you where Ground Zero is ..... where each piece of twisted metal lay .... where bodies were on the ground having jumped to their deaths rather than to be burned to death 18, 19, 20 stories up ..... where Big, Brave New York Fire Fighters took off their helmets and stood and cried real tears for their brothers that only short minutes before were standing next to them laughing, talking ..... where each tire from the big planes came to rest .... where a father, a mother, a brother, a sister, a child perished in a HORRID, HORRID DEATH .... where stunned bystanders watched in horror wondering if they were next.

Where were you, Sally, on that day??? Do you not remember where you stood when you realized what was happening .... that the first attack on our American Ground by Foreigners were taking American Lives where they had lived and worked their entire lives and NO ONE, NO ONE came to the rescue because they were dying too .... no one filled waiting hospitals ..... because all were DEAD. How many New Yorkers do you need to walk with you to show you the waiting hospitals .... to show you the streets that were filled with the ASH of the DEAD ...each and every street where the ASH of the DEAD and the buildings they had moments earlier occupied was inches thick and filled the mouths, the noses, the lungs of the still, disbelieving living running to escape what ever was next to come.

HOW>>> HOW>>> HOW >>> HOW>>> HOW>>> HOW>>>

Could you not REMEMBER where GROUND ZERO exists and HOW MANY NEW YORKERS WILL IT TAKE TO WALK THROUGH GROUND ZERO with you to help you remember... to remember where GROUND ZERO WAS and .....IS TODAY???

"UNDER GOD"

Seems the post has an inferiority complex

Okpulot Taha - I'm an instant and devoted fan of yours!

M_EPLING asks, "how do they think they can impose sharia law compliant?"

Sharia law courts are common throughout most of Europe. There 80 to 90 sharia law courts in Britain alone.

Over in Germany, a court ruled a Muslim man has a legal right to brutally beat his wife because this complies with sharia law.

There are thousands of cases like this, especially cases related to brutalizing, raping and murdering women, including young girls, such as daughters of Muslim men.

Right now I am working at chasing down a case in Germany which alleges a Muslim man was declared innocent and set free after murdering his wife based on a premise this murder was in compliance with sharia law. I have yet to confirm this case as true, I am very skeptical this case is true.

Nonetheless, sharia law courts are widespread across Europe. Muslims enjoy a sharia law legal system all to their own, and there are verifiable cases of Muslim men being allowed to beat their wives and beat their daughters as a matter of "honor" under sharia law.

Only difference between Europe and America is an influx of Muslims into Europe is going on for hundreds of years, much longer than here in America relatively to numbers of Muslims.

Britain has 80 to 90 sharia law courts, why not America? Happened in Europe.

Islam invades a country over a hundred years and more. Islam has all the time in the world to do this. This is the strategy of Islam; persist for centuries.

Are you readers absolutely sure Islam will not dominate America in a hundred years, in two-hundred years?

Again, my gut instinct tells me this mega-mosque is the first step of many over a hundred years to impose Islam and sharia law upon America.

This happened to Europe, and America is being repeatedly warned by Europe to not allow this to happen here. Obama and left liberals are ignoring those real life experience warnings.

This very thought of allowing Muslim men to legally beat women here in America is shocking, is so repugnant. This is sharia law, and America must obey sharia law; we are a tolerant peoples.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

how do they think they can impose sharia law compliant ? i mean i am a male and don't have a lot to loose but reading about honor killings and women as property ...i just don't see it catching on

how do they think they can impose sharia law compliant ? i mean i am a male and don't have a lot to loose but reading about honor killings and women as property ...i just don't see it catching on

muawiyah writes, "I think we should have burned their ships to the water line as they showed up."

Our collective ancestors were a tolerant peoples who welcomed those odd colored peoples riding aboard tall ships. Our ancestors helped those strange peoples, provided shelter, food and taught those strangers how to survive our wild lands.

Those strangers from far away lands, which our ancestors could not imagine, spoke of Jesus Christ, God and The Good. Those strangers from the seas spoke of living in peace and harmony.

Then those strangers slaughtered our ancestors by the tens of millions.

"I come to you with open arms and friendship in the name of Allah, peace be upon him."

"Welcome, strange friend, allow me to help you survive our America. We are a tolerant peoples."

Then the slaughter just as centuries back.

muawiyah adds, "we both got ties to the native soil others don't."

This tie is "America" is our land. We are the only true "Americans". This nation was once ours and we never claimed this land to be ours, never thought of this land to be a nation, rather thought America wild and free, thought this land a giver of life, as we thought of our own peoples; wild and free givers of life.

Traditional American Indians are maddeningly pragmatic, we deal only in reality. We survived the most horrific genocide of written history, we survived because we followed natural ways and survived because we followed our gut instinct.

My gut instinct informs me this mosque is preparation for slaughter of our American way of life.

Our peoples, we American Indians, will never be dominated by Islam. We cherish our freedom, just as our ancestors cherished their freedom. We American Indians will fight, will die and will survive while Mainstream America bends the knee in submission to Islam and sharia law.

Islam will never be allowed to set foot on our few remaining lands.

We traditional American Indians are truth speakers. Truth is a weapon which can never be defeated.

America, chi hullo li na billia chih.

America, I will love you forever.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

PURLGURL ~ now that's a good one.

Frankly Sally Quinn has been so utterly offensive, in both her ignorant blathering and her insufferable egotism, that I had a difficult time insulting her enough, but you did the job.

I love it.

And you.

Hey, we both got ties to the native soil others don't. I think we should have burned their ships to the water line as they showed up.

Sally Quinn comments, "This is the cry of the conspiracy theorists who claim that the mosque will be built with suspicious money...."

Those conspiracy theorists include Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and prominent Democrats such as John Dean. Your labeling only two of the best known conservatives is a lame attempt at deceiving readers.

Readers are advised to read Sally Quinn with a high degree of skepticism; she begins her article with calculated deceit.

Quinn continues, "I have a great idea. Why don't they find a new property and personally raise the money...."

Yours is not a great idea, yours is a stupid idea. Muslims want a mosque, Muslims are to pay for this mosque. Your words are worthless fluff and filler designed to inflame readers, first with deceit, now with stupidity.

Quinn asks, "Will somebody please tell me exactly where Ground Zero is?"

Yes. Ground Zero is in the hearts of and in the minds of patriotic Americans, about seventy percent of Americans. Quite clear you, Sally Quinn, are lacking both a heart and a mind along with lacking a sense of decency. Your words are morally offensive.

Quinn makes a failed attempt at humor, "would take a red pencil and draw a line around what they believe to be 'Ground Zero.'"

Very clear to me you write with Crayons.

Quinn flies off on an unrelated tangent, "I remember when the Vietnam War Memorial...."

My husband came home from Vietnam all shot up and near death. If not for our Oklahoma rural farm medicinal ways and our Choctaw healer, he would have died. You and I should talk "sensitivity" - you have none.

Quinn concludes, "I hope that the Cordoba House will be built at the proposed site."

I hope you become a patriotic American rather than remain a left liberal socialist bent on imposing Islam and sharia law upon our America, just like your master, Barack Obama, is doing.

Sally Quinn, I am an English professor of over twenty years. You would not pass one of my university level classes; your writing skills are sorely lacking and your planned deceit is annoyingly transparent.

This red skinned girl grades your article "F" for Flatulence.

Okpulot Taha
Choctaw Nation

I don't think this is a question of tolerance. Tolerance is evident in the fact that Muslims practice their faith in America with no fear that someone will bomb their mosques or kidnap and decapitate them. Building a mosque by Ground Zero is not a question of religion either. Why pick a location where a mass murder was perpetrated in the name of Islam? This is a political statement, meant to claim victory over demoralized Americans.

http://rubylee1776.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/a-mosque-at-ground-zero/

MIOVSKI ~ you keep claiming the Burlington Coat Factory building is not part of GZ, but it most certainly is. This is the very spot where Atta's plane stopped. And yes, there are human remains ~ from the dead bodies of the people scooped up by the undercarriage and engine of that plane that landed on the roof and fell inside.

We've been over this several times yet you persist in peddling your propaganda.

What is your problem boy, are you deaf or something!

No, Sally, the outrage over our Vietnam Veterans' Memorial was no where near as vociferous as the opposition to the 9/11 Moslem Victory monument.

I was there and I can tell you that opposition fell into line as they discovered the truth ~ even the guy who wanted the flag at the apex (so it'd look like a hole on a golf course) has apologized for being such an idiot.

Here we have a building rented by a couple of Arabic grifters with borrowed money from somewhere, and it's the BIGGEST building left that was actually damaged in the attack.

It's also the HIGH WATER MARK of Mohammad Atta's efforts inasmuch as the landing gear and an engine from his plane made it all the way to the roof, where they fell inside.

The remains of innocent Americans turned to goop and slush in that attack slurpled down into this structure from the remains of the plane.

As Sally, and others have learned the truth they've gotten worse. Now they sound like the ghouls they really are.

So, what is it? They don't care? They've been paid off? Osama called them up and promised to kill them last?

Whatever it is that leads these dunderheaded Leftwingtards to continue supporting the building of a Mosque (the word means community center) on top of a prime and significant piece of Ground Zero, they need to get their shot cards brought up to date, and check for rabies perhaps!

It's not just "near", or 600 feet away, or a couple of blocks away ~ GZ is here ~ at this site!

The wounds are too recent to let bearded holy men mess with it.

Yes we should go allow a religion that openly espouses our destruction to hold sway i America or else we're intolerant. Tell me Sally when you will call for Christian and Jewish access to Mecca? or even allowed to build houses of worship there?

Cordoba House is not being proposed on Ground Zero itself.

Ground Zero is the site of the twin towers of the World Trade Center that were destroyed on 9/11/2001. That is hallowed ground. Many people died there. A memorial is planned for that location.

The site proposed for Cordoba House is a few blocks away. It is currently a Burlington Coat Factory store. That is not hallowed ground. Nobody died there.

And the mosque and Islamic Center are not being proposed as a political statement. Their purpose is not to insult the victims of terrorism (some of whom were Muslim) or to glorify the terrorists. Their purpose is to practice the Muslim religion, to worship God.

The First Amendment was adopted by our country's founders to ensure freedom of religion for adherants of all religions, including the Muslim religion.

In our country, all governmental laws and actions are limited by the U.S. Constitution. Under the Constitution, religious practice can only be regulated if there is a compelling government interest, such as the need to preserve health or safety. There is no compelling government interest at stake here, so there is no legitimate constitutional objection to the location of the mosque.

I hope that religious bigotry will make way for religious tolerance, understanding, and acceptance. Regardless, government officials are obligated to uphold the Constitution, including the guarantee of freedom of religion.