Act of one man, not an act of faith

Hello ThomasBaum

"Do you really believe that "Love" is? Or could it be that "love of" is the "basis" of some people's actions?"

Love, at the core. Love of if you prefer. Christian mythology has God "giving" his only Begotten Son as Lamb and Atonement for Humanities "sins". Did so for Love of us, we are told.

Humans do good deeds and those most of us would call bad or evil, as well. But they do so for some love, or Love, in themselves and towards others, distorted though it may be. But then our connection with our Divine Natures and Source has gotten a bit distorted and out of focus, being more focused on the material world that we, inhabiting bodies, live within.

"I said I met God, why do you persist in taking a simple statement of fact on my part and "reading into" this statement things that I have not said?"

It should be clear by now, Thomas. I have repeated it over and over in different ways. You declare what God is, what form God takes, dialogue what His Plan is, and assert that those that do not recognize what you believe you Know of God are still a bit in the dark, but will come around to realizing what you Know God to Be.

My stance is that God can be and Is anything, and everything, and is not limited by "Trinity", or Christianity for that matter. God may reach some individuals better in that form, yet others see God better as Buddha, or Allah or Quan Yin. To Buddha, what we call God is Omniscient Presence or Consciousness, but not a Being. WE are THAT, as we Enlighten and merge back into the Source we came from.

So, what is True? We don't know, but personally. There is as yet no validation that proves any particular way or belief or religion has got it right. But there are many paths that can influence us in our beliefs and faith and experience of whatever we may call "God". For you It is through Jesus as a Manifestation of God Incarnate. All is Good. For me It goes beyond Jesus, but definitely includes Jesus.

Nobody needs be wrong, and whatever is the Truth may matter less than the process of getting there. And there is a lot of different scenery and languages between here and Zion.

I recognize that you have taken on a "job" that you take seriously, and that is good. My discussion with you is in no way meant as a negation of that, or an attempt at invalidating what is true for you. Perhaps it has been informative, and certainly I trust positive. I am glad that you are doing what is important and fulfilling for you to do, and I am sure that God is pleased by that.

Peace, Thomas.

justillthennow

You wrote, "I also, though, have no problem with saying that God is Love, if for no other reason than it fits my worldview that Love is the basis of all cause of action, and so effect by extension."

Do you really believe that "Love" is? Or could it be that "love of" is the "basis" of some people's actions?

You wrote, "Every time this occurs trouble begins, commencing from the obvious problematic position that no human mind can conceive of all of the relations and interactions of their own immediate lives, no mention of their own bodies, much less be able to fathom the Truth and Depth of God."

I said I met God, why do you persist in taking a simple statement of fact on my part and "reading into" this statement things that I have not said?

I have said many times, I do not know all of the "details" and I also know that I do not need to know all of the "details", I am not God, I did not become God, I met God.

I have also mentioned that when God became One of us in the Incarnation that He gave up His Omni's.

You then wrote, "Shall I bow before your Awesomeness now, or forever? Since you have Divined that I do not know God at all."

You are the one who keeps saying that God is unknowable, I was just pointing out what you said, nothing that I "Divined".

You then wrote, "Kind of you to end on an insult, but as I have said I have had my own deep spiritual experiences and feel a deep relationship with God."

If you have a "deep relationship with God" then you must know something about God, even if you cannot put it into words.

The "job" God gave me is to speak and I take very seriously this "job" and I am counting on God to see me thru this "job".

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Hello ThomasBaum,

I do not have a problem considering that God is indescribable, and so describing God becomes problematic as how does one define or describe All That Is? It is a bit telling, in your Moses story, that he was told I Am Who I Am, or such. A bit contrary to your assessment, that is not a descriptive but a simple statement of Is-ness.

I also, though, have no problem with saying that God is Love, if for no other reason than it fits my worldview that Love is the basis of all cause of action, and so effect by extension.

I have a lot of trouble, with anyone, that claims to Know God, at least in the capital K Know way, as in the Truth of and bigger picture of God. Every time this occurs trouble begins, commencing from the obvious problematic position that no human mind can conceive of all of the relations and interactions of their own immediate lives, no mention of their own bodies, much less be able to fathom the Truth and Depth of God.

Your statement:

"Even tho God Is God and only the "Second Person" of the Trinity actually became a person, God can be very "personable", so to speak, you speak as if God is totally unknowable so I suppose that means that you do not know God at all, no problem, you will meet God one day."

Shall I bow before your Awesomeness now, or forever? Since you have Divined that I do not know God at all. Kind of you to end on an insult, but as I have said I have had my own deep spiritual experiences and feel a deep relationship with God.

I just tend to allow, and be fine with, most peoples diverse ways of seeing and defining God in their lives without trying to own that definition.

All good. We all have different ways, as it should be.

Peace, Thomas.

justillthennow

You wrote, "of your experiences while meeting God"

I did not speak of my "experiences while meeting God" but of my experience OF meeting God, that was the experience.

You then wrote, "Saying that God is anything, fill the blank, is describing."

I guess then that I am describing what God's Very Being Is, as I have said, "It is beyond my comprehension that is why I had to "experience" it.

I was told a long time ago that God is Love but until I met God, I had no idea that the statement "God Is Love" was/is "more literal" than anyone could ever imagine.

In the OT when Moses asked God, "Who should I say sent me" or words to that effect, God answered, "Tell them, I AM WHO AM sent you", if this is true and it is, then God, Himself, gave a "description" of Himself.

I have already mentioned the "pronoun" thing to you.

Even tho God Is God and only the "Second Person" of the Trinity actually became a person, God can be very "personable", so to speak, you speak as if God is totally unknowable so I suppose that means that you do not know God at all, no problem, you will meet God one day.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

ThomasBaum,

part two,

"I do not put God in a "box" by pointing out that God Is a Trinity and that Jesus is God-Incarnate and that God Is a Being of Pure Love, how God "works" in His Creation..."

You do if that is the limitation that you ascribe to God, His Form, His Plan, etc.

"What I said was, I met God the Father, I met God the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit revealed......... , I was not speaking of "perceptions"."

Yes, you were speaking of your perception, and perceptions, of your experiences while meeting God.

"I said that LOVE and GOD are ONE AND THE SAME, not a description, not a "manifestation", not an attribute but God's Very Being."

Saying that God is anything, fill the blank, is describing. An attribute, regardless of yours or mine or God's, is an aspect or our expression. A manifestation of who we are. It is a manifestation. A form that is taken.

Unfortunately it seems repeatedly challenging to find agreement in terms, even if it seems it should be clear. Semantics? Perhaps, but also possible is avoidance or deflection.

"You also wrote, "that I consider suffused into the fabric of all life and not separate from it at all."

This is "quite a limitation" that you have placed on God, can you not see it?"

Yes, if I believe that is the extent of God's manifestations, though the description is not so limited if you consider what it would be to be "suffused into the fabric of all life and not separate form it at all".

Finally, you write:

"Believe it or not, but God does not have to fit your "conception" of God."

I am fully aware of this, and believe your statement is doubtless true.

Likewise, your statement holds true for YOU, too, Thomas! Even if you HAVE met with God!

Peace.

Hello ThomasBaum,

Clearly we are not communicating well and I am not inclined to try much harder. I have no interest in changing or altering your belief and conception of God, but having a dialogue with you is proving problematic. Some examples are forthcoming, for what they may be worth.

"It is no "format", either Jesus is God-Incarnate or He isn't, either God is a Trinity or God isn't."

It is a format. It is a form at. It is the form that you are insisting that God exists in and as. It is not form less, or else you would not be able to define it or give it structure.

Further, you have often come up with this statement :either He is 'A', of He is not 'A'. That seems quite linear to me, and limiting, when describing All That Is. Perhaps, since we are talking of God, He/She/It/Other/Love can be A and not A, A and B, Yahweh and Jehovah, Jehovah and Allah. None of them. Trinity and Oneness.

justillthennow

You wrote, "You insist, for instance, that God is a Trinity and that God follows the Christian format, ie through Jesus Christ, for instance, with the Holy Spirit, etc."

It is no "format", either Jesus is God-Incarnate or He isn't, either God is a Trinity or God isn't.

You then wrote, " Further, you define the God of Islam as Satan."

If Jesus is God-Incarnate and He Is and if God is a Trinity and God Is, then, according to what the god of islam says thru Mohammed in the Koran, this is not only logical but the only conclusion one could come too.

You wrote, " I would guess that after that statement I can assume that you define any other Faces or Forms or Manifestations of God, as It has appeared through time, as false God and so Satan."

Not at all.

I, very specifically, pointed out that according to what people say that the god of islam says in the Koran about Jesus and about the Trinity, even tho the trinity in the Koran and the Trinity of the bible from what I have heard are not the same, and other things spoken of in the Koran, than the god of islam and God are not the same.

I do not put God in a "box" by pointing out that God Is a Trinity and that Jesus is God-Incarnate and that God Is a Being of Pure Love, how God "works" in His Creation is up to God, what I am pointing out is that God has a Plan and has had a Plan since before creation and God's Plan will come to Fruition.

God becoming a Member, so to speak, of His Creation is just part of God's Plan.

You then wrote, "You made several statements that essentially say you know your perception is "Truth","

What I said was, I met God the Father, I met God the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus and that I met satan, among other things, I was not speaking of "perceptions".

You then wrote, "Like you, I believe that God is a being of pure Love. But that is not the only way that "God" manifests"

You seem to misunderstand what I said and I can understand your misunderstanding, I said that LOVE and GOD are ONE AND THE SAME, not a description, not a "manifestation", not an attribute but God's Very Being.

You then wrote, "Not at all. "Being" may not be the word that I would use, as it suggests individuated and separated."

This is fine but the "simple" definition of God is SUPREME BEING.

Considering that God is a Trinity and is a Being of Pure Love, God is a Being quite different, to put it mildly, than we might normally associate with BEING but nevertheless God Is.

You also wrote, "that I consider suffused into the fabric of all life and not separate from it at all."

This is "quite a limitation" that you have placed on God, can you not see it?

You then wrote, "I do not limit those Faces to exclude any, or to include only one. Or only three."

Believe it or not, but God does not have to fit your "conception" of God.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

walter-in-fallschurch

You wrote, "thomas,
i'm just going by what (mark said peter said) jesus said. was he trying to trick his disciples with all this "the end is near" stuff? weird."

For one thing, "near" can be a "relative" term and God's "near" may not correspond to our "near".

Another thing, our individual "end", so to speak, is quite near, don't you think?

By "our individual end", I am speaking of the "end" of our physical life, each and every one of us.

God's "literal" does not necessarily fit into the "box" that some "literalist's" try to cram it into.

By the way, I DO NOT "know everything" and I do not wish to, in any way, shape or form, give anyone that impression.

I DO KNOW that GOD IS LOVE and I do wish to point out, again, that this FACT is beyond my comprehension.

God revealed this FACT to me.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thomas,

I just want to be clear that I am not dissing your way of seeing God in a more 'focused' way. I said that I do not pidgeonhole God into a singular or refined form. That statement is not meant to belittle the spiritual value of focusing on a more defined point, or form.

But after a time the point, form or definition that it carries is less fulfilling and less inclusive, so to me less true. No disregard intended.

Hello ThomasBaum,

Thank you for the reply. Sorry that I have not gotten back to you on it.

Feel free to believe that you know the "Truth". My statements of the last post were intended to recognize that your way of meeting, understanding and defining God are yours, and may not be translatable or correspondent to others.

You insist, for instance, that God is a Trinity and that God follows the Christian format, ie through Jesus Christ, for instance, with the Holy Spirit, etc. Further, you define the God of Islam as Satan. I would guess that after that statement I can assume that you define any other Faces or Forms or Manifestations of God, as It has appeared through time, as false God and so Satan.

I do not hold that perception. At all. And I do not pidgeonhole God into some more singular or refined Form. I believe He/She/It manifests in all forms. Even as what we call Satan. We are all manifestations of God, Children of God, stumbling along on Earth having forgotten our divine origin.

"Do you think that Truth is subject to what a "majority" or for that matter a minority believe?"

You made several statements that essentially say you know your perception is "Truth", regardless of what others believe. I understand that is your stance.

Like you, I believe that God is a being of pure Love. But that is not the only way that "God" manifests. Look around. This is all the created world, and we are the created humans. Although one could argue that all is love, sometimes it doesn't look much like Love. This created world is dark as well as light.

"Is it "silly" of you to think that there just might be a BEING greater than yourself? "

Not at all. "Being" may not be the word that I would use, as it suggests individuated and separated. I do not hold that as true for God, that I consider suffused into the fabric of all life and not separate from it at all. But then, God has found ways to present aspects of Itself that we may consider for our own upliftment. Faces of God.

I do not limit those Faces to exclude any, or to include only one. Or only three.

Peace, Thomas Baum. Have a great Sunday.

thomas,
i'm just going by what (mark said peter said) jesus said. was he trying to trick his disciples with all this "the end is near" stuff? weird.

walter-in-fallschurch

You wrote, "ALL THESE THINGS will happen to THIS GENERATION."

Your narrow way of looking at "ALL THESE THINGS" and "THIS GENERATION" brings to mind those "literalists" that think the six days of creation were 24 hour days.

Whereas the six days of creation are quite literal in their own way and that is as "periods of time", considering the fact that man has been in the sixth day ever since man has been man.

Also considering the fact that the night of the sixth day is coming and the dawning of the seventh say shall surely arrive in due time, God's Time.

As I have mentioned before, I look past heaven to the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth which will arrive on the seventh day.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

oops...meant to say "...promised the destruction of THE TEMPLE IN jerusalem..."

thomas, you asked,
"What makes you think that they [jesus' apocalypse predictions] were "false"?"

well, because he promised the apocalypse to people standing right in front of him. he repeatedly described the destruction of jerusalem AND the apocalypse/second coming to his disciples and repeatedly said things like ALL THESE THINGS will happen to THIS GENERATION.

people have parsed his words ever since (eschatology) that generation died off and jesus hadn't returned, but the plain fact is his apocalypse and second coming predictions were wrong.

walter-in-fallschurch

You wrote, "thomas, you said,
"Quite a few of the people of Jesus's day thought that He was crazy..."

indeed! turns out, given that his false apocalypse predictions, they were right."

What makes you think that they were "false"?

Time will tell.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

thomas, you said,
"Quite a few of the people of Jesus's day thought that He was crazy..."

indeed! turns out, given that his false apocalypse predictions, they were right.

justillthennow Part I

You wrote, "My main points are that though you have had an experience of meeting with God, as you put it, that only speaks to your perception and experience, it does not necessarily translate to another."

I don't know exactly what you are trying to say here but as far as the "way" that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit made Their acquaintance with me was very personal and I would imagine however They would make Their acquaintance with others, personally, would also be in a personal way, exactly how, is up to God.

You then wrote, "What you experienced does not and can not make for an full evaluation of God, even if it were validated outside of your own psyche."

What is a "full evaluation of God"? As far as my meeting God being "validated", don't worry, God will in His Own Way and in His Own Time make that "validation".

You also wrote, "I am not ridiculing you at all, even as your claims may be viewed by a majority as fringe."

Do you think that Truth is subject to what a "majority" or for that matter a minority believe?

Quite a few of the people of Jesus's day thought that He was crazy, so does it matter one iota how people view my statements about meeting God, these statements are either true or not and God, as I have said, will in His Time and His Way verify these statements.

justtillthennow Part II

You then wrote, "Our Darkness we export outside of us and call it Satan, as we export our Light and call it God."

I have met God and I am not God, I have also met satan and I am not satan.

By the way, satan was created, satan is a godwannabe but he is not God.

You then wrote, "Just as we are infinite Likenesses made in His Own Image, (a bit problematic for women, no?),"

Not in the least, as I have said many times before, God is not a He, a She or an It, even tho God-Incarnate was a Male, God is a Being of Pure Love. I, frequently, use the male pronoun (He, His, Him) because using pronouns are handy in communicating but it's use is not accurate, human language does have it's limitations.

By the way, that "Image" is LOVE, so if Love shines thru, than God is shining thru, if not, then God isn't shining thru

Doesn't "man" in the bible sometimes mean a male and sometimes mean a human?

You then wrote, "So, for me, pointing to any single symbol or religious tradition as required, or essential, for god awareness is silly"

That's fine, you can believe whatever you wish.

Is it "silly" of you to think that there just might be a BEING greater than yourself?

What I am speaking about tho is that the Being that created absolutely everything, also became "part" of His creation by becoming One of us. I am not speaking of symbols, religions, traditions, I am speaking of simple FACTS, they either are true or not.

Your reference to "god awareness" is not the first time I have heard it spoken of, but I am saying point blank, I have met God and I am not God.

You then wrote, "Your insistence that you know God is fine, but is YOURS."

Actually, what I have said is, that I have MET God and know that God Is, as in I AM WHO AM, and that God Is a Trinity and Is a Being of Pure Love.

You then wrote, "But it is, of necessity if not by design, a limited version and viewing point,"

You seem to be the one that is trying to read what you want to read into it.

I have said quite simply and plainly, God chose me to speak and I am giving it a shot.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

thomas, you asked,
"don't you think that those who say that they are "speaking" for and/or about God are responsible for what they say? "

well, i think they are all mistaken, or making stuff up, and/or truly deluded. i believe the biblical authors made stuff up and repeated made-up stories. it should be needless to say that i don't think jesus's or moses's miracles actually happened. people used to (and still do) think a lot of crazy things about the universe.

Hello ThomasBaum,

Thank you for the reply. I am happy that you are able to write today. It must be at least a bit challenging to be reliant on the library for computer access, and must require commitment.

My main points are that though you have had an experience of meeting with God, as you put it, that only speaks to your perception and experience, it does not necessarily translate to another. What you experienced does not and can not make for an full evaluation of God, even if it were validated outside of your own psyche.

Now, I am a believer as well that God is a "Being of Pure Love". As well I am in essential accord with much of what you write. I am not ridiculing you at all, even as your claims may be viewed by a majority as fringe.

I believe that I have 'met God' as well, though my experiences cannot be compared to yours in numbers of ways. I am clear, though, through our own deeper selves we are related, interconnected, and at one ness with Divinity.

Therefore, for me, it is impossible to say that the "god of Islam is satan". No such thing. There is our own Darkness and Light, as we are in a dualistic universe. Our Darkness we export outside of us and call it Satan, as we export our Light and call it God. Yet, if there is only One God then no other exists but One. Many Faces. Just as we are infinite Likenesses made in His Own Image, (a bit problematic for women, no?), there are infinite Faces of God.

Buddha, Krisna, Muhammad, QuetzalQuatyl, Ram, Xerxes, Athena, Hera, Pan. Jesus was the most influential Face in the last couple thousand years, arguable, and continues wight great influence to this day. Great longevity. But one may find God on a deserted island, not because Jesus is said to have come to cleanse the souls of the shipwrecked, not because He Alone is said to be God Incarnate, but because "God", Immortal Incandescent Life and Awareness, is inside each of us. As we ARE OF THAT.

So, for me, pointing to any single symbol or religious tradition as required, or essential, for god awareness is silly. One needs only the desire and it is available.

Your insistence that you know God is fine, but is YOURS. It is beautiful and felt deeply by you, and that is good. But it is, of necessity if not by design, a limited version and viewing point, and can not, (unless I am talking to the Realized Christ here, don't play with me now ThomasChristedBaum!), know the fullness of God.

With all respect.

walter-in-fallschurch

You wrote, "judged for our actions towards each other, or by our thoughts about god?"

We will be judged on everything, but since you are an atheist, how could you have "thoughts about god"? Maybe, one thought and wouldn't that thought be, that there is no god?

Considering that you are an atheist and some of your "thoughts about god" may come from what others say about God, don't you think that those who say that they are "speaking" for and/or about God are responsible for what they say?

Don't worry, God is our Judge, I would much rather be judged by God than by humans.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

justillthennow

You wrote, " I like his idea that we all get to heaven,"

I haven't exactly said this, you might call it semantics but I don't, I look past heaven to the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth, and yes, ALL will be in the Kingdom.

hell and spiritual death are both real and since God gave us free will, God can not keep us out of either since they are the direct consequences of our use of our free will and that is WHY God came up with His Plan to pardon ALL, ultimately, whether we accept "responsibility" this side of breath or not.

As I have said, "Christianity" is not about picking up a "get out of hell" card.

You then wrote, "Well, I have not heard back from Thomas and he is usually prompt in returning calls,"

Couldn't write yesterday, it was Veteran's Day and the library was closed, I don't have a computer, I just use one in trying to do the "job" God gave to me.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

thomas, you said,
"We will all be judged, what is the big deal?"

judged for our actions towards each other, or by our thoughts about god?

walter-in-fallschurch

You wrote, "nonetheless, as sure of himself as he is thomas baum also apparently had some weird conversation with god where god told him EVERYBODY gets to go to heaven - even an atheist like me."

As I said, when I met God the Father, He said not a word.

As I said, when I met God the Holy Spirit, He said not a word but did reveal to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus.

I was told in a dream, that only I could say it, I had no idea what it was that only I could say, so I dove into bible studies.

Walter, ultimately, it is not about Faith, even tho Faith can be a wonderful Gift from God that not all open and all have faith of one kind or another, it is not about Hope, even tho Hope is another wonderful Gift and it can be very hard, to put it mildly, to live without hope of one kind or another, it is about Love.

As I have said, God Is a Being of Pure Love.

Knowing God's Name is not "magic", it can be a start, it is not the finish.

As I have said, It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

I wish that no one went to hell, if one were to wake up in hell, so to speak, one of the horrifying things that that one will come to realize is that they built it themself.

Some will never take "responsibility" for their actions this side of breath and God knew it and that is why God came up with "the mysterious Plan of God", as it is referred to.

Jesus won the keys, so to speak, to both hell and spiritual death and will use them in due time.

You also wrote, "pretty unorthodox, but he must have gotten an update from god when they spoke. (thomas, have i got this right?)"

Jesus said, "Follow Me", "Take My yoke upon you", "I will send the Holy Spirit...", think about it.

As far as how God has worked and is working in my life, God is NOT some kind of dictation machine in the sky.

Considering what quite a few people seem to think about God, doesn't it seem somewhat "unorthodox" for God to do what He purported to do, concerning Jesus, rather than to just quash us.

We will all be judged, what is the big deal?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

justillthennow Part 1/2

You wrote, "In other words, regardless of what others say, you are sure that your understanding of God is singularly true and complete."

I have said very simply and directly, that I have met God and that God is Love, a Being of Love not Love being an attribute of God, all else flows from this Fact, you can twist it into saying that I have "complete" knowledge of God, whatever that means, I have simply stated that I met God and God happens to be a Being of Pure Love.

I don't need to "know it all" about God, so to speak. The Fact that God Is LOVE, makes sense of what is written about God in a way that nothing else could and the reason that I can say that there are many that know God's Name but seem to know nothing else about God and also that there are some that "know" the bible much better than me but nevertheless do not "know" God.

You then wrote, "Whatever others perceive of God, if it does not fit your perception then it is not TRUE."

Something to think about, there is an old saying: God created us in His Image and we have been trying to return the favor ever since.

Have you ever heard it? If you think about it and listen to some of the absolute "garbage" being spewed out in "God's Name" than it is quite obviously still true that many are still "trying to return the favor", any thoughts on this?

You then wrote, "That makes you no different that any of the other elitists that presume to know the true God."

You can "group" me together with whomever you wish or you can actually read what I write/say on here, that is your choice.

This reminds me of something I heard in a bible study awhile back, it was about Joseph, the one that his brothers sold into slavery, and how he recounted his dreams to his brothers, not knowing at the time what these dreams meant and his brothers took offense. Some thought that Joseph was being arrogant for mentioning his dreams.

Some may think that I am an "elitist" for mentioning that I met God and for trying to do the "job" that God gave me to do, God chose me to speak, so I speak.

justtillthennow Part I

You then wrote, "We need not play semantics. It is clear that the God of Islam is Allah, by any accounts you would prefer. This is a false statement as there is no one that would not name the God of Islam as Allah, it is the common term."

I happen to be an American and yes I have heard that the god of islam is called Allah but in the last few years I have also found out that Arabic Christians refer to God as Allah so as I pointed out Allah is a generic term for God just like God is the English generic term for God, it is not "semantics".

Yahweh or I Am Who Am and The Trinity are rather "specific" in speaking of a Supreme Being whereas God in English or Allah in Arabic is "generic", I was just trying to be "specific".

As I said, the god of islam gets mighty perturbed if referred to as Father or if God is referred to as Father, Son and Holy Spirit or Trinity, isn't this spoken of in the Koran?

You then wrote, "But I questioned it, as I did not take you for one that was so black and white, but more inclusive."

Ever heard of Jesus? You should read and think about some of the things that He said.

An "inclusiveness" of believing everything can mean that one believes nothing, I speak of the "inclusiveness" of God's Plan for Humanity, as I have said, God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Farnaz1Mansouri1

You wrote, "I don't think we'd get very far with me telling you that Allah is not Satan."

This is true, because if Jesus is Who He Is and He Is, then there is no way that the god of islam is who he claims to be.

I have also written that I do not hold it against Mohammed that he was deceived because satan can come across as "mister nice guy".

You wrote, "The persecution of Jews, Muslims, and other minorities, primarily, at the hands of Christian Fundamentalists is very, very real."

I am not saying that it isn't, I am not speaking for "Christian Fundamentalists" or for that matter any "Christian", I am speaking for and about God.

As I have said repeatedly: God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.

Also one can have "True Religion" and not even believe in God, as it says, "True Religion is taking care of widows and orphans".

You then wrote, "However, persecuting innocent people of any faith is wrong, as I'm sure you will agree."

Yes, I do but I would have to include people of no faith but I happen to think that you meant this also.

You then wrote, "Roman Catholic school girls, not Muslims, knocked my daughter's front teeth out. I could go on along these lines, but you see the point."

Yes, I get your point and this is why I have also written many times that "God looks at the person, not the "label".

I am sorry that this happened to your daughter, but not ALL "Roman Catholic school girls" did this to your daughter.

It is nice to chat with you Farnaz and I wish you well and I, for one, thank God that God is not even close to being like what some people think that God Is.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

:[)

Now, call me crazy if you would like, but I hear God has endless golf courses with super sublime housing, any tee you want... And instructions by the boatload or shot glass, as you prefer, for your swing. I hear She has a hell of a hook, Right and Left...

jttn,
"...sublime housing..."

ha! that's great. maybe next time thomas talks to him he can ask god if i could reserve sublime housing on a golf course, preferably near the first tee? (and could he help me with my hook?)

Hello Walter ifc,

Thanks for that. Perhaps no way in heaven or hell, or perhaps way. Dunno. I like his idea that we all get to heaven, it has got to be an improvement over the standard fare, and it is something I hold to as well. Hey, even atheists like you rate sublime housing after all is said and done. Maybe especially atheists like you!

Well, I have not heard back from Thomas and he is usually prompt in returning calls, so I have to start assuming that I crossed the line with the boy. That is too bad, if true, because I like him. I even can get behind the idea that we may have Meetings with Great Men, (or Women, if that is your preference, as it is mine).

No gains with The Farnaz either, but no surprise there. One way vision is a virtue for some, but not many.

Have a great evening, Walter.

justillthennow,
valiant efforts there with thomas baum. there is NO WAY IN HELL any logical discussions with him will work. something happened to him and he is 100% sure he's talked to god or something (he knows god's name!).

nonetheless, as sure of himself as he is thomas baum also apparently had some weird conversation with god where god told him EVERYBODY gets to go to heaven - even an atheist like me. pretty unorthodox, but he must have gotten an update from god when they spoke. (thomas, have i got this right?)

"You, however, will not get far with justilthenow, an intellectual and spiritual welterweight at best, a vicious racist as I can easily demonstrate."

Wow, thanks for the assessment! I will take the first part with a grain of salt. Ok, several grains. Compared to great minds mine is a welterweight, I am sure. But, one can ever try to improve! Yet the second part I return to you, Farnaz. It is yours. You run circles around me in that department, as your many posts affirm.

You still avoid that mirror mirror at all costs, eh?

Hello ThomasBaum,

"People can say whatever they want, but God Is a Being of Pure Love, Is a Trinity and Is One. There are plenty of "adjectives" out there but what I wrote is TRUE."

In other words, regardless of what others say, you are sure that your understanding of God is singularly true and complete. Whatever others perceive of God, if it does not fit your perception then it is not TRUE. That makes you no different that any of the other elitists that presume to know the true God.

Personally I know of no one that could fathom a percentage of That.

"Actually, my "simplistic" way is based on what Jesus said about Himself and The Father and The Holy Spirit, among other things, and what the koran says..."

You draw sides....

"Jesus is either God-Incarnate or He isn't, if Jesus is God-Incarnate and He Is, then He is God-Incarnate for everyone and it does not matter in the least..."

It is Christian theology that offers up this concept, as it would, and also limits it to Only One. So, your view of the extent of God is likewise limited to this form and dynamic. I do not have that limitation. In fact Buddhism offers the concept that we are all God-Incarnate, having individuated from the original Oneness of Consciousness that we now call God.

"If you read what I write, you will see that it is not about "elitism" nor "exclusivity" and you can believe what you want about "spiritual sickness" but it is a FACT that there is One God and that One God Is a Trinity and that One Trinitarian God Is a Being of Pure Love.

What you write is indeed about exclusivity, though you may not see it that way. You continue in this statement saying one may believe whatever... but there it is a fact YOUR definition of God. And we could then move on to "the God of Islam is satan" as your fact.

"What I said was, the god of islam is satan, I did not say Allah, because Allah is merely a generic term in Arabic...."

We need not play semantics. It is clear that the God of Islam is Allah, by any accounts you would prefer. This is a false statement as there is no one that would not name the God of Islam as Allah, it is the common term. Why slow down here? You are calling Allah Satan.

"I have not "judged" the religion, I have just pointed out that the god of islam is satan, God chose me to speak, so I speak."

Again, honesty and truth always play better, in my world.

I do not mean to step on your belief. I am a great believer in the infinite and unique ways that each come to a relationship with God. But I questioned it, as I did not take you for one that was so black and white, but more inclusive. So I get to readjust my perception.

Thank you for sharing it.

"The Koran says ."

The Koran says a lot of things, and an awful lot of them are not remotely warm and fuzzy. And Muslims are very adept at selectively quoting in order to produced the desired sedative effect, while the stealth jihad continues to mount.

There are good Muslims, but they are the ones that maintain their own private faith. The true Muslims are the ones who emulate Mj. Hasan. It's written right in their source book, the Koran, and it's in the record of their perfect model, Muhammad. None of this is going to change any time soon.

It's about time that we woke up and ceased the politically correct covering by which the stealth jihad operates.

If it does, what does that make it?

Farnaz,

Cute tactic. Do you really think it floats?

Thomas Baum,

As you, no doubt know, I disagree with your assessment of the God of Islam. However, I don't think we'd get very far with me telling you that Allah is not Satan.

You, however, will not get far with justilthenow, an intellectual and spiritual welterweight at best, a vicious racist as I can easily demonstrate.

When you have a moment, click onto Michael Weinstein's essay. And then look at his web site. If you have time, take a look at his book.

The persecution of Jews, Muslims, and other minorities, primarily, at the hands of Christian Fundamentalists is very, very real. This is not to say that Dr. Hasan experienced this, which has yet to be proven in Court, or that, if it did, it somehow excuses his actions. It does not.
Other Muslims, countless Jews have faced persecution in the military and have ot opened fire on their colleagues.

However, persecuting innocent people of any faith is wrong, as I'm sure you will agree.
Roman Catholic school girls, not Muslims, knocked my daughter's front teeth out. I could go on along these lines, but you see the point.

Bear with me for a bit, Thomas Baum. If you have a moment, read Michael Weinstein's essay.

Hello sdr1,

"The entire Roman
Empire never murdered 1/100th as
many victims as the Islamic genocide
of Hindus alone."

Patently false. Have you any idea how many were slaughtered by that world dominating power?

"... these are the deadly
& fatal perils of self-delusion that will
lead us to ignore the murderers among us,
the cobras sliding amidst our playing children."

Nice poetry.

ThomasBaum,

I cannot respond adequately in the moment to the abundance of interesting statements that you made, so I will have to do so a bit later. I look forward to it. Till then, and after, be well.

Where are the terrorist acts
by the Mormons? by the Amish?
by the Jews, or by the followers
of the Dalai Lama?

The butchery of the Japanese
Imperialists is but memory nowadays.
The Nazis are history now. And not
even the deadly Indian cult of Kali
does terror any more. The entire Roman
Empire never murdered 1/100th as
many victims as the Islamic genocide
of Hindus alone.

To ignore the truth about the Islamic
cult of blood & death simply because
you do not wish to offend the sensitivities
of your Muslim neighbors... even for
the sake of well-intentioned political
correctness... these are the deadly
& fatal perils of self-delusion that will
lead us to ignore the murderers among us,
the cobras sliding amidst our playing children.

S D Rodrian
http://islamisbad.com

.

justillthennow Part I

You said, "You may feel convinced of your own experience of God, but yours is just one soul of the billions of souls, each unique and each requiring a different combination to open."

What you say about "souls", people if you will, is true, each and every person that ever was, is or will be is unique. God needs no "combination" to look into the hearts and minds of anyone and as I have written, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations.

You then wrote, "God is in no way limited to any form, image, value or mode of presentation. One could as easily say that God, extant in the faces and lives of all his Creation, is anything but a Trinity. While at the same time IS a Trinity. And a Oneness."

People can say whatever they want, but God Is a Being of Pure Love, Is a Trinity and Is One. There are plenty of "adjectives" out there but what I wrote is TRUE.

You then wrote, "Your simplistic way of assigning Allah the identity of satan is related in kind to an Evangelical considering the Catholic Church as the devils dome, or a Shiite condemning a Sunni as impure in the eyes of Allah."

Actually, my "simplistic" way is based on what Jesus said about Himself and The Father and The Holy Spirit, among other things, and what the koran says and they are in complete disagreement with each other. The koran takes what Jesus said and twists it which is just how satan works, use some truth.

You then wrote, "Jesus is God Incarnate for you."

Jesus is either God-Incarnate or He isn't, if Jesus is God-Incarnate and He Is, then He is God-Incarnate for everyone and it does not matter in the least whether anyone believes it or not, Truth is Truth, Truth is not based on whether someone believes it or not.

You then wrote, "That does not make Jesus the Path for another because you have found that He works in your world, and indeed may have come into your world as Lightbearer."

Jesus said, "I Am the Way, the Truth and The Life no one comes to the Father except thru Me", notice Jesus did not say to God but to the Father. There could be many, many ways to Jesus and many of these could be without people even "consciously" seeking or following Jesus.

I have met the Father so I take Jesus at His Word and believe that somehow it was thru Him. Also, I believe that since God has a Plan and has had His Plan since before creation, God chose me before creation even tho I did not know about it until I knew.

You then wrote, "One of the greatest spiritual sicknesses is, I believe, elitism and the belief in exclusivity, or there is only one god."

If you read what I write, you will see that it is not about "elitism" nor "exclusivity" and you can believe what you want about "spiritual sickness" but it is a FACT that there is One God and that One God Is a Trinity and that One Trinitarian God Is a Being of Pure Love.

justtillthennow Part II

You then wrote, "Naming Allah as satan is irresponsible and wrong,"

What I said was, the god of islam is satan, I did not say Allah, because Allah is merely a generic term in Arabic, I believe, used by both the Christians and Muslims, just trying to do the "job" God gave to me.

You then wrote, "and relegates Islam to satan worship. It is not, as many good muslims will attest."

They do not realize it and as I have said, since satan attempted to "hijack" Jesus and say that Jesus is his prophet, there are some "Muslims" that are better followers of Jesus than some "Christians", even tho they do not believe that Jesus is God-Incarnate.

As I have also pointed out, God looks at the person, not the "label".

You then wrote, ""It is not my place to judge anyone, that is God's "job", so to speak."
Yet you will judge the religion, and so..."

I have not "judged" the religion, I have just pointed out that the god of islam is satan, God chose me to speak, so I speak.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

OK! Enough of this bull. Muslim want war, lets do it!
Show me ONE Muslim country that you want to live in.
Clean up your own, why come here, Muslims are starving all over because you don't create, only destroy.
Envy of those that are free is your sin.
Mulim people are cowards!

Dear Mr. Ahmad,

What are you doing to refute the claims of those Muslim groups that encourage the senseless acts of violence such as those by Major Hasan? Have you spoken out against those Imams who teach the righteousness of violent jihad to Muslim youth?

Condeming acts of violence is all very well, but you might write a lyric exposing the evil perversions of some in your own religion. Or do you too much fear the fatwa?

Hello ThomasBaum,

"...I have met God and that God is a Trinity and that Jesus is God-Incarnate. And since this is TRUE and the god of islam not only disputes these facts, according to what people say is written in the Koran, but becomes quite upset if anyone believes, much less knows these facts to be true, that the god of islam is satan."

The danger here is the same for any belief and supposition of the Identity of God presented as if it were, as you say, TRUE, and certainly exclusive and singularly valid. It allows in a black and white world to discount any other belief that has contradictory symbols or images of that Identity.

You may feel convinced of your own experience of God, but yours is just one soul of the billions of souls, each unique and each requiring a different combination to open.

God is in no way limited to any form, image, value or mode of presentation. One could as easily say that God, extant in the faces and lives of all his Creation, is anything but a Trinity. While at the same time IS a Trinity. And a Oneness.

Your simplistic way of assigning Allah the identity of satan is related in kind to an Evangelical considering the Catholic Church as the devils dome, or a Shiite condemning a Sunni as impure in the eyes of Allah.
Jesus is God Incarnate for you. That does not make Jesus the Path for another because you have found that He works in your world, and indeed may have come into your world as Lightbearer.

One of the greatest spiritual sicknesses is, I believe, elitism and the belief in exclusivity, or there is only one god. To seek to uplift one's version of Deity at the expense of anothers is contrary to the lay of the land. Naming Allah as satan is irresponsible and wrong, and relegates Islam to satan worship. It is not, as many good muslims will attest.

"It is not my place to judge anyone, that is God's "job", so to speak."

Yet you will judge the religion, and so...

justillthennow

You wrote, "I am surprised with you with these comments. You sound a bit like the other prejudging Americanos, disagreeing and disallowing that Islam can actually be, to many adherents, a religion of peace and path to God, for them."

What I have written many times is that I have met God and that God is a Trinity and that Jesus is God-Incarnate. And since this is TRUE and the god of islam not only disputes these facts, according to what people say is written in the Koran, but becomes quite upset if anyone believes, much less knows these facts to be true, that the god of islam is satan.

Two other things that I have written many times also are: God looks at the person, not the "label" and God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.

I have also written that there are many that do not believe that Jesus is God-Incarnate yet nevertheless follow Jesus better than some that believe that Jesus is God-Incarnate.

It is not my place to judge anyone, that is God's "job", so to speak.

You also wrote, "You do that in your discipline in following your spiritual path, I believe."

Jesus did not say to follow the "spiritual path" that I have laid out for you, what He said was, "Come follow Me", I am trying to do that and do what God has told me to do. In other words, I do not have a "spiritual path" to follow but a person.

You also wrote, "There are millions of Muslims that love God deeply and do so non-violently."

This is fine and as I have said: God looks at the person, not the "label", God is not the egomaniac that some think God is and "knowing" God's Name is about all that some seem to know about God.

To try to impose one's belief on another is wrong and there are those that call themself Muslim and those that call themself Christian and for that matter those that call themself many other things that try to do this and there are ways other than "violence" that some use to achieve this.

Do you think that "shariah law" should be imposed on ANYONE whether violently or non-violently?

Do you think that those in "islamic countries" that do not "submit" to islam should be treated as "second-class" citizens or worse?

I imagine that "quite a few people" will be in for "quite a shock" to find out that "believing in God" is not a "magic ticket" but is an invitation to treat "others" decently even if the "God" one believes in is not God at all.

We will ALL be judged, whether or not we accept "responsibility" for how we use our "free will" is part of what our "free will" is all about.

God has a Plan and God's Plan will come to Fruition, see you and the rest of humanity in God's Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Farnaz.,

How appropriate to your judgmental nature and hateful approach.

"Actually, I'd ditch the beret and limit the facial hair."

Find forgiveness for the pain in the stories that you so often repeat. Otherwise, dear, you are just another voice that becomes perpetrator, as you have been abused.

Feed hatred, or fight against it. I am clear what side of this squaring off you have been on. For how long?

ThomasBaum,

"Christianity speaks of "new heavens and a new earth", islam is about world domination.

Christianity speaks of Love as in a relationship of Father and child, Brother and sibling, islam speaks of submission not obedience.

Submission by force, if need be, rather than obedience by choice."

I am surprised with you with these comments. You sound a bit like the other prejudging Americanos, disagreeing and disallowing that Islam can actually be, to many adherents, a religion of peace and path to God, for them.

The fact that radical elements of Islam are being successful in hijacking the faith and redefining it to be all about the dark force, Luke, is detrimental to not only that faith. It also is not broadly valid, if a eyes open view of it is taken into account. And if that accounting is not written by those of a conflicting faith.

You should know that submission is another term for devotion. When one loves someone or something beyond superficially, one serves that. One is devoted. Submits to it's needs.

You do that in your discipline in following your spiritual path, I believe. There are millions of Muslims that love God deeply and do so non-violently.

Actually, I'd ditch the beret and limit the facial hair.

Salman Ahmad

The "title" of your posting reads: "Act of one man, not an act of faith"

Maybe it is not what you would consider an "act of faith" but it seems as if this "one man" considered it an "act of faith", does it not?

It also seems as if there are "quite a few" out there besides this "one man" who consider it not just an "act of faith" but the "ultimate" "act of faith".

Jesus said, "Die for God", Mohammed said, "Kill for God", seems to be quite a difference between the two sayings, don't you think?

Jesus spoke of the "Sword of Truth", seems as if Mohammed was speaking of a different type of sword, don't you think?

There also seems to be quite a "difference" between the "martyrdom" spoken of in "Christianity" and the "martyrdom" spoken of in islam, don't you think?

Jesus said, "Proclaim the GOOD NEWS", what did Mohammed say?

Christianity speaks of "new heavens and a new earth", islam is about world domination.

Christianity speaks of Love as in a relationship of Father and child, Brother and sibling, islam speaks of submission not obedience.

Submission by force, if need be, rather than obedience by choice.

As I have said, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

Some that believe Jesus is Who He Is, follow Him not and yet there are some that don't believe that Jesus is Who He Is and yet follow Him.

God's Plan, which "Christianity" is just part of, is for ALL to be in God's Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth which will arrive with the dawning of the seventh day but of course the night of the sixth day will precede it.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

There is one aspect that binds many political killers together, that is a kind of psycho-sexual alienation from women. It isn't just Muslims. Timothy McVeigh, unmarried and without a high school girlfriend, the Unabomber, alienated from women, Mohammed Atta, likewise and it appears that Maj. Hassan, too, had no intimate connection to a woman.

Islam, to be sure, offers a felicitous philosophical haven for these misogynists, but it is not unique to Islam.

Mr. Fashionable Muslim with Beret and goatee,

Let's accurately quote the Koran, not make stuff up.
Koran chaper 9 verse 5:
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and kill the nonbelievers wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem."
Fight and Kill means fight and kill.

Sura 5:32 states "We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men".
The key phrase Salman suspiciously omits is "unless it be for manslaughter or mischief". That's a helluva exception my religion o' peace friends.

I suggest people read the Koran, not these apologists for terrorism.

Salman says;
"The Qur'an teaches us that "Killing one person is like killing the whole of humanity and saving one person's life is like saving all of humanity"".

He omitted the word “innocent” between “one” and “person” as found in his scriptures. Obviously it is the Muslims who determine who is “innocent” and who is not. Reading comments to articles in the Arab press dealing with the West in general and the USA in particular, there seems to be a consensus among the readers that the West is waging a Crusade or Holy War against Islam. According to their understanding of their scriptures, the West is not “innocent” and so what a practicing Muslim to do but obey Allah’s commands as stated in the Quran and wage a jihad against "the enemies of Allah”.

To draw conclusions about all based on the wrongs of one is not just stupid, it is deplorable and sad. Thank you for extending your hand of friendship, Salman Ahmad. You can be sure that others, though clearly not all, will respond in kind.

"Yesterday's carnage has caused deep hurt to all of us who would like to see relations between America and the Muslim world strengthen and improve...until we are strong enough to eradicate all religions except Islam."

The Qur'an teaches us that "Killing one person is like killing the whole of humanity and saving one person's life is like saving all of humanity...unless they are non-believers, then it's ok...because they are no better than pigs or slaves anyway."

"War and violence are an all consuming disease which do not discriminate between race,region and religion...unless it's an Islamic war on the world, then it's ok."