Spirituality of Resistance

Ms: Thistlethwaite:

I am about as spiritual as a truck - indeed, I encountered a Toyota last week that was probably more spiritual. That said, I was raised as an atheist, pacifist, and I have opposed and resisted all of the wars undertaken since I became old enough to understand such matters. I went to jail for 10 months as part of resisting war - although, admittedly, that was because I was an atheist not because I was a pacifist.

Opposing war is not at all spritual to me - it is simply the right thing to do.

To Ahmed from Bahrain: Actually Jesus is not the spirit of God but Almighty God Himself in the flesh, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Like I said in an earlier post God does not look at your religious affiliation or lack thereof but is a searcher of hearts and minds. What you wrote in your post about believing in Jesus, well that is what a lot of people that call themselves christians think is the whole extent of being a christian well Jesus said "Come follow Me". Jesus is the Saviour of all humanity. It is God's Will that all be saved and they wil be. Jesus himself went to hell, He took ALL the sin and the sins of everyone upon Himself and went to the uttermost depths of hell, that may be a little hard to believe but that is the kind of God that God really is. If ultimately only those that repented would be the only ones in the Kingdom then God could have yelled out of Heaven with that statement but His Plan is for the salvation of all of His children. Jesus said a lot of things before He died and so many people slice and dice what He said into their own preconceptions and prejudices. Also when Jesus said that He would send another Advocate, that is the Holy Spirit, the third Person of the Holy Trinity not the spirit of God but the Holy Spirit. A lot of people seem to think that if you have the "right dogma" that that is the ticket so to speak well wake up people. There is only One God and God is a Trinity and He is Pure Love, a consumming Fire of Pure Love, He will in due time burn all the crud away. I refer to God as He, well He is not a male or female but Almighty God, God incarnate though was a male, Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. And He also asked permission from a woman named Mary to become a human being and She said Yes, thank you Mary. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Anonymous. We are not talking about the police seeking justice by enforcing law. We are talking about lying and then going to war against a whole nation on drummed up charges, dropping bombs, turning life into misery for millions of families. Raiding their homes, subjecting children to inhumane tactics, raping, lying, etc. Do you actually read the news of what your government have been doing and are doing in other parts of the world or do your prefer to live in your own lala land and dream about how evil muslims are.

Wake up. We are just people like you with dreams and aspirations. We hope to have a life of peace and see our children grow up healthy and seek knowledge and become useful to help their fellow human beings.

Here: google for Blackwater USA and try reading Scahill's book on the subject. Is this law or just a mercenary jungle and you make mockery of militias in Afgahnsistan/Iraq/etc. Try to see the log in your own eyes before pointing the finger. Insn't that what your Master told you.

Try seeking peace for ALL humanity instead of believing that your ways are better than others. Leave judgement for God if you truly believe Jesus' teaching. Let me tell you this: With your way of belief, you will never see Jesus. You have already denied him many times. Find true peace within your own heart and do not shoot down any messenger of peace just because they happen to have a Muslim name. You need to ovelhaul your own heart. You believe in repentance but you never consider it for yourself just because you believe that you are saved purely by believing in Jesus. You have a long way to go before you or anyone else can walk in Jesus' foot. Yet it is a very simple thing. But you are not ready to hear the truth. If and when you do, then HE will come to you NOT before. And please do not mock my words. I am only the messenger, allbeit with an Arabic name.

Consider this: Jesus is an Arabic name. The proper name is Essau and it is a very common name here in ME where he actually was born, raised and crucified. And every single Muslim loves Jesus, as the spirit of God.

Can you and others use this love for advancement of peace and what we have in common OR do you still want to annihilate us all by your massive WMD? I acknwoledge that you have superiority of firepower but do you have the wisdom of Jesus to heal the rift? From what I read, all I see is that anyone who does not share your belief is relegated to the basket of The Evil. That is far from a healthy approach to peace. Thus I ask you to seek Christ in your heart and strongly believe that you have not found him yet. But the good news is: Don't give up.

May peace be upon ALL Creation.

“while it takes 2 people to agree - it only takes one to start a war.”

This is true, but it takes 2 to fight a war. If one is to sacrifice one’s life for their cause I would suggest sacrificing in a peaceful manor would be a better long term strategy. A Pacifist does not necessarily need to nothing.

Anyone who has read the biography or seen the movie on Gandhi you would see that lives were given, peacefully, and it changed a nation. With the instant information of today’s world this becomes even a more powerful tool.

True change comes from within and this applies to both people and countries. Countries change when the people change. More people change when they see an ideal is demonstrated, not just spoken. Thought , word, action is how we create our reality.

War is simply a short term fix the symptoms. Peace is a long term solution that cures the illness. Either will require sacrifice. Most (all?) religions if understood correctly truly teach peace love and do not kill. If the sacrifice is required why not follow your belief and take the peaceful route.

To Anonymous: Like I said God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable. God does not look at your religious affiliation or lack thereof, He is a searcher of hearts and minds. Jesus is the saviour of all humanity. The captives shall be released, they are those in hell. The dead shall rise, they are those that went to spiritual death. Being a christian is proclaiming the "Good News" and dying for it if need be. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Did the native rulers of the Middle East and Central Asia appease Britain after the conversion of the British Navy from coal to oil?

"If we are nice to them, then they will treat us the same."

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. -- Winston Churchill

Dear Ahmed, Thank you for your postings from the --other side--. What I mean by that your voice of patience, reason, and peace should hopefully resonate among the readers here and maybe even elsewhere. I have lived in Jordan and known kindness and hostility from Muslims. Mostly kindness, although I was assaulted by a distraught Palestinian. At first I was very upset, but I came to realize that he was reacting out of years of pent-up hostility from his abject poverty and the abusive language of hate from devious Mullahs. In America, we too have devious pastors and priests who use blind faith and desperation to preach violence in Christ's name. It is shameful!!! God is peace -- both Allah and Christ. If we wish to be on God's side and not God on our side (as if God would support bombings at all be they by Christians or Muslims), we must lay down our arms and work towards peace. We must share the fruits of the earth to combat how the powerful abuse the weak through institutionalized religion -- not the Word of God.

Sometimes the police use force to capture a criminal. Violent criminals, like murders or rapist, may even fight back with weapons. The police will respond with their weapons. Is this small war that takes place in our streets to bring a criminal to justice a just war or are we to make an all encompassing judgment that all violence is against God's will. If all violence is against God's will, then you might as well open up the doors of your house and invite the rapist to come and feast on your 14 year old boy or girl. You might as well open the boarders and let every jihadist, every suicide bomber, every pervert, and every thief into the country. Let's just be nice and open the boarders to them all and give them safe haven. If we are nice to them, then they will treat us the same.

Oops, I am sorry for posting my comments 3 times! This website takes so long to regergitate the comments that one does not know if it had done so or not? There is no confirmation and a very long wait despite broadband technology? i'll do this only once. Promise.

War is an outmoded and most savage way of settling disputes, especially among grown ups. When at school we tell our children not to use violence to get their way but to be kind and considerate, we as people of this world and especially those in democratic countries, seem to be ok with dropping bombs willy nilly enmasse on civilian populations, all in the name of serving their countries! It is a barbaric way to settle disputes.

We do not bomb the whole school yard in order to deal with the bully. Yet it is ok to first lie and then carry out the most vicious attack on a whole country and its population driving millions of them into refugees and making life hell for those who stay and object to invader's presence. If it is revenge then we have had enough bloodshed for a 1000x 911 incidents. And that is from Christians who have sworn allegiance to Christ. Yet some people here seem to point their finger at Islam and muslims as being the fanatic ones. Try living in their shoes in any of the towns and cities bombed by your soldiers and then tell me how do you feel. Spare me the rest of your rants pleeeeez.

I wonder whose side Jesus will take if HE were to return tomorrow. Now that's a thought for the devout.

I say it again. War is an outmoded remedy in settling disputes. We shun in it in our neighbourhoods and we should also shun it at a more universal level. For as long as there are soldiers there will be leaders who plan to use them for their own personal gain. Blind faith is not good especially when it is given freely to politicians.

Let there be peace.

War is an outmoded and most savage way of settling disputes, especially among grown ups. When at school we tell our children not to use violence to get their way but to be kind and considerate, we as people of this world and especially those in democratic countries, seem to be ok with dropping bombs willy nilly enmasse on civilian populations, all in the name of serving their countries! It is a barbaric way to settle disputes.

We do not bomb the whole school yard in order to deal with the bully. Yet it is ok to first lie and then carry out the most vicious attack on a whole country and its population driving millions of them into refugees and making life hell for those who stay and object to invader's presence. If it is revenge then we have had enough bloodshed for a 1000x 911 incidents. And that is from Christians who have sworn allegiance to Christ. Yet some people here seem to point their finger at Islam and muslims as being the fanatic ones. Try living in their shoes in any of the towns and cities bombed by your soldiers and then tell me how do you feel. Spare me the rest of your rants pleeeeez.

I wonder whose side Jesus will take if HE were to return tomorrow. Now that's a thought for the devout.

I say it again. War is an outmoded remedy in settling disputes. We shun in it in our neighbourhoods and we should also shun it at a more universal level. For as long as there are soldiers there will be leaders who plan to use them for their own personal gain. Blind faith is not good especially when it is given freely to politicians.

Let there be peace.

War is an outmoded and most savage way of settling disputes, especially among grown ups. When at school we tell our children not to use violence to get their way but to be kind and considerate, we as people of this world and especially those in democratic countries, seem to be ok with dropping bombs willy nilly enmasse on civilian populations, all in the name of serving their countries! It is a barbaric way to settle disputes.

We do not bomb the whole school yard in order to deal with the bully. Yet it is ok to first lie and then carry out the most vicious attack on a whole country and its population driving millions of them into refugees and making life hell for those who stay and object to invader's presence. If it is revenge then we have had enough bloodshed for a 1000x 911 incidents. And that is from Christians who have sworn allegiance to Christ. Yet some people here seem to point their finger at Islam and muslims as being the fanatic ones. Try living in their shoes in any of the towns and cities bombed by your soldiers and then tell me how do you feel. Spare me the rest of your rants pleeeeez.

I wonder whose side Jesus will take if HE were to return tomorrow. Now that's a thought for the devout.

I say it again. War is an outmoded remedy in settling disputes. We shun in it in our neighbourhoods and we should also shun it at a more universal level. For as long as there are soldiers there will be leaders who plan to use them for their own personal gain. Blind faith is not good especially when it is given freely to politicians.

Let there be peace.

All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

Please keep all of our servicemembers out there in your prayers. They are doing "something" to deal with the evil that threatens us all.

In case someone reads what Mr. Baum says and is wondering how to attain salvation, to be saved, you must:

1.) Realize that you are a sinner. "ALL have sinned..." and "The wages of sin is death." (Rom. 3:23, 6:23;1 Jn.1:8)

2.) Realize you cannot save yourself. Jesus Christ paid the penalty for your sin (Eph. 2:8,9; John 3:16; Rom. 5:8); there is no other way to heaven except through him. (Acts 16:31; Jn. 14:6)

3.) Repent and ask God to save you. He promises to forgive you. (Rom. 10:8-13; I Jn.1:9)

4.) Receive Christ into your heart as your Lord and Saviour. (Salvation is a gift, but a gift must be received to be yours.) John 1:12

If you did the above, then thank God for saving you and begin your new life in Christ as a child of God. II Cor. 5:17 (The first step after salvation is to tell someone about it. Rom. 10:9-11)

To E FAVORITE and the rest of the world: I have been to hell and I have been to spiritual death I guess God in His Wisdom knew that I would need those experiences to do the job that I have and that job is to tell the entire planet that God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable. The definition of hell is that it is worse than you think because it is worse than you can think, you build it yourself and you do not know you are getting out. I happen to be the New Testament Moses, the Old Testament Moses said that I would be here. To FRANK and the rest of the world: Christianity is not about peace it is about the salvation of all humanity. Jesus Himself said "My Kingdom is not of this world". The Divine Commission is to proclaim the Gospel, the word Gospel means "Good News" and as the angels said at Jesus's birth this is "Good News to all people" and "Peace to whom God's favor rests". These are two seperate statements and they are both true. God also said I wil send the simple to confound the wise, well here I am. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

AMEN Brother!!!

I get so sick of hearing national "religious" leaders like Fellwell (BIH*), Robertson, et al. praise this stupid Iraq war. Christianity is ABOUT PEACE, NOT WAR.

What's worse is that Bush has developed some kind of a Messiah complex, and he thinks he truly is doing the work of God. Reality shows that he's doing the work of that other deity -- the one down south who Falwell is currently hanging with.

I look forward to the day when a REAL Christian once again presides over the country. The guy in the Oval Office now is nothing more than a lying, evil fraud of a human being.

* = BURN in H*LL. Burn, Baby Burn Herr Falwell!

Susan at the top of her essay tells us that she knows God's will. She evidently has a direct line into God. Maybe he will tell her what stock I should buy today? How can we disagree with her statement that it is against God's will that we wage war? Easy, she is wrong and God told me so.

Well said, Viejita del Oeste.

Friend
For many people religion helps to keep that lusting beast under control. If we want to identify with a group, why not choose the group that says "Treat others as you would like to be treated" and "The face of the other is the face of G-d".....
Fear and violence feed each other, and at its best religion helps us manage the fear. Too many leaders stay in power by encouraging that fear, and manipulating that violence.

I remember growing up and hearing my father screaming commands from his nightmares. I would go to my parents room to find my mother yelling, "It's a nightmare, honey!".

But I want to tell you about the other thing my father told me because I think it brings insight into our holy books...insights into who we are.

After the initial fear-shock of combat and human life starts to become less and less valuable, he talked of the intense euphoria of combat.
He talked about how he felt every movement, heard every sound, and was totally alive. The adreneline rushing through a soldier who is a master of his craft begins to crave that excitement, despite it's dangers.

Our anscestors sat around the camp fire after the hunt for endless generations discussing the excitement of the day.

Did our species kill off the Neaderthals?

What devils hide in our souls?

How can our species make the leap from being victory-lusting beasts to being benevolent gods?

Real pacifism does not "look the other way" at any kind of war, and Prof. Thistlethwaite does not hint at any war being acceptable.
So that's a red herring.
If everybody was willing to coexist and not try to control their neighbors, and to resist those who covet power for its own sake, there might not be any Hitlers or Stalins who needed to be physically defeated.
In order for that to happen we would all have to stop dividing ourselves into groups of those like us -- the acceptable and the saved -- and those outside our group -- the threatening and the damned.

Ah, you oppose war. Your family suffered from post traumatic stress syndrome. Fine. Do you actually mean that letting Hitler win would have been preferable? Or would you have allowed the Japanese to continue their reign of terror here in Asia (e.g. the Rape of Nanking, the rape of Manila) in the name of sweetness and light?

Excuse me for being cynical, but when I was a doc in Africa, several of my friends were killed by "insurgents" who had money to buy rifles thanks to the World Council of Churches. Did you oppose the WCC's policy?

There might not be any "just" wars, but one of the reasons that Pol Pot, the murderers of Rwanda, the communists of Addis Ababa, or Robert Mugabe today can kill people is that the "righteous" are too busy congratulating themselves on their spirituality to see that there are bad people out there, and that sometimes these bad people need to be stopped.

There is real pacifism: look at the rescuers at Assisi or Le Chambon. But too often those spouting against war mean they oppose only politically correct wars, and look the other way at other wars.

If you have actually lived thru a war or two, I will withdraw the statement.

I always looked at the teachings of Christ as a challenge to mankind. When we as a society choose to live by these teachings, then Christ will have returned. So the true act of faith is in taking action, to find solutions to the complex issues that we face as a society.

Perhaps this is just a symptom of latent Deism....

I understand your devotion to peace activism after reading about your father & grandfather. My father was the same. His family told me he came back from WWII a different man - drinking, smoking, on edge. And he never talked about it. I asked him some questions before he died. He told me a few things, reluctantly, the friends he made & lost, the troubles he had, a nervous breakdown that was treated only with alcohol & nicotine & a transfer.

War doesn't just destroy the losers. War destroys the winners too.

War is the opposite of love.

I understand your devotion to peace activism after reading about your father & grandfather. My father was the same. His family told me he came back from WWII a different man - drinking, smoking, on edge. And he never talked about it. I asked him some questions before he died. He told me a few things, reluctantly, the friends he made & lost, the troubles he had, a nervous breakdown that was treated only with alcohol & nicotine & a transfer.

War doesn't just destroy the losers. War destroys the winners, too.

War is the opposite of love.

Thomas Baum - no kidding? How do you know all that?

Can you read the mind of God?

Actually, hell is going to God and seeing yourself and all the wrong you have done,all the judgementalism and condemnation you have done and all the unforgiveness that you haven't done. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

"War must stop. All wars, everywhere, for whatever reason. There is no Just War, not from the perspective of those who die in war and those who live with the memories."

In theory, I would agree with that. In reality, it is wishful thinking.

The world was never, not will it ever be, without war. As long as one segment of humankind tries to dominate or enslave another segment, there will be war. As long as there are power-hungry people, there will be war. As long as different ideologies in politics exist there will be war. And as long as fundamentalist religions exist there will be war.

I think saying 'war will always be with us' is a sign of having *given up on peace* 'until the Messiah comes back,' (to, umm, apparently start a war.)

Self-fulfilling prophecies can be a real *ahem.*

Don't see a need for some weapons going away any time soon, myself, but no one said we had to *think* with them.

It's easy to oppose war ideologically... but let's face it, war is always going to be here.

Until you can solve the problem of poverty, hunger, enmity, and political tyranny, you are going to have people using guns to solve their problems violently...And guess what... these social problems aren't going to be solved by mortal humans like ourselves... at least not until the Messiah comes back.

Sometimes taking care of one another means employing people to walk around with guns to protect us from the crazies. That's why the police have guns. That's why we have armies. That's (sometimes) why we have wars. I don't want war either but there is a time and a place for it, turn, turn, turn.

I respect what you are doing to oppose war, but there will always be a need to have armies whose job is to kill people.