Does Any Sane Person Take Halloween Seriously?

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Dear Concerned

You are repeatedly copying and posting the same things over and over again; again and again; the same old thing, repeated, and repeated, and repeated, again, and again, and again, and again...so who is brainwashed? You hate religion, especially Islam, especially every man, woman, child Muslim...ok, we got it!

Joet,

Yes indeed!! Most of us suffer or have suffered from the three B's i.e. we were Bred, Born and Brainwashed in our religion.

For your eyes only:

How to escape from the three B's i.e. recognize the flaws in the founders and foundations in the major contemporary religions and take proper measures to change your life accordingly.

A synopsis:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus. Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic Shiite terror theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’".

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism.

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments/lies and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

Concerned: so Jihadist's religion is flawed? Has it occured to you that if you had been born to Muslim parents you would be claiming that Jews and Catholics were misguided? And that the capriciousness of faith that demonstrates makes all of this religious superiority utter nonsense?

Concerned: so Jihadist's religion is flawed? Has it occured to you that if you had been born to Muslim parents you would be claiming that Jews and Catholics were misguided? And that the capriciousness of faith that demonstrates makes all of this religious superiority utter nonsense?

Jihadist,

"No creature like Satan. He is sexy. He is suave. He is persuasive. He is charming. He is a sharp dresser. He is smart. He is sly. He can literally possess your body too if he wants to. "

Were you describing Satan, or my husband? Ha!

I do hope you were able to catch your cats. There is nothing I can think of more fun than a cat party. Are your cats the type to run crazy into walls when you put things on them, or do they simply go limp and fall over? Hope you video-taped it!

The Jihadist I see is again into addressing the issues of other faiths with the exception of Islam. Why is that? Because she like all liberal Muslims cannot come to grips with the
flaws is said religion.

Satan does not exist but if it did, Islam would be where it reigned.

And The Jihadist noted: "I'll go as Satan, with horns on my head, hooves for my feet and a tail at my rear-end". This costume would not be needed. Dressed in her burqa with a koran under her arm would be scary enough.

This righteous, moralistic true believer is appalled by the tone and the thrust of some posts! Blasphemers all!

God/gods belong to us. Halloween belongs to us. Never mind whom we co-opted it from!

And leave Satan alone. He's ours - the adherents of the Abrahamic faiths, and only us.

No creature like Satan. He is sexy. He is suave. He is persuasive. He is charming. He is a sharp dresser. He is smart. He is sly. He can literally possess your body too if he wants to.

We are so lucky to have this interesting, fascinating, non-demented creature to tempt us and for us to blame - "The Devil made me do it" and made our lives more colourful and challenging. What will the world be like without Satan?

And Satan is good for the economy. Just ask Hollywood how much money, Satan, the character actor, made for them in any given "being possessed by the devil" to "end of the world" movies. And then some. And just ask costume renters around Halloween too.

What's the matter? You non-Abrahamic types don't have a fellow like him and are jealous of us?

Oh wait, you have only the "devil in you" to use as a stolen phrase from us the adherents of the Abrahamic faiths and to whom the Devil/Satan/Lucifer belongs.

--------------------------------------------------

E Favorite,

I am shocked and dismayed!

Who made the nun pregnant? Should we have a DNA test to determine paternity?

And why only Christian folks like the Grand Inquisitor and the Pope at the atheist Halloween party you attended?

Why not a Hindu priest, a Buddhist monk, an ayatolah, a Scientologist auditor etc too?

Why not Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler too, for a truly terrifying Halloween party for both believers and non-believers?

And see if everyone gets along.

Your atheist Halloween party is a form of discrimination and selectivity that is most unacceptable under the relevant clauses of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights.

(P.S - love your "award" list in Jacoby's previous thread. Can't find any of your nominees to disagree with, but do miss Ba'al thought. He don't come to On Faith too often)

--------------------------------------------------

Russell D,

Good idea for Halloween costumes.

I'll go as Satan, with horns on my head, hooves for my feet and a tail at my rear-end.

My husband will go as Santa with a long white beard on his face, a pillow strapped to his stomach and a Ho! Ho! Ho! on his lips.

--------------------------------------------------

Andrea,

I'm thinking of dressing up our two cats as either Laurel and Hardy, or Cheech and Chong for a cat Halloween party. If there is one and the cats let us catch them.

Best regards

"J"

Sorry everyone for my repeated comments. When nothing happened I thought it didn't work and I tried again.

Halloween isn’t all about demons, devils, and other satanic things. Sure, people make scary movies of murderers and serial killers, but those are always watched in groups where everyone laughs and have fun. Also, most kids dress up as super heroes instead of demons and monsters. And all the costumes that are demons, monsters, and devils are usually made to make fun of them, like having cross-eyed eyes that pop out and a goofy smile. Halloween was made to make fun of the devil, not join him. Its also a good way for kids to dress up as cute things and receive candy and treats.

Halloween isn't all about demons, devils, and other satanic things. Sure, people make scary movies of murderers and serial killers, but those are always watched in groups where everyone laughs and have fun. Also, most kids dress up as super heroes instead of demons and monsters. And all the costumes that are demons, monsters, and devils are usually made to make fun of them, like having cross-eyed eyes that pop out and a goofy smile. Halloween was made to make fun of the devil, not join him. It's also a good way for kids to dress up and get a lot of candy and treats.

Halloween isn't all about demons, devils, and other satanic things. Sure, people make scary movies of murderers and serial killers, but those are always watched in groups where everyone laughs and have fun. Also, most kids dress up as super heroes instead of demons and monsters. And all the costumes that are demons, monsters, and devils are usually made to make fun of them, like having cross-eyed eyes that pop out and a goofy smile. Halloween was made to make fun of the devil, not join him. It's also a good way for kids to dress up and get a lot of candy and treats.

Anonymous posted:

"Do your own google search -oh lazy one."

Thanks Anonymous! I absolutely LOVE irony!

No effort to use a screen name, no ACTUAL participation in the conversation (just a bunch of immature comments from the Peanut Gallery) and THEN..."Do your own google search -oh lazy one."

Bw-ahhhhh!!!!

Stop making me laugh, I have chapped lips!

Happy Halloween Anonymous.

"Anonymous:
"Satan is a Christian thing."

Really? You think the concept of Satan originated with Christians and is exclusive to Christianity?
Better research the subject before you reveal more of your ignorance and predjudices."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

"Satan (from the Hebrew word for "adversary"), is a term that originates from the Abrahamic faiths, being traditionally applied to an angel.

While Hebrew Ha-Satan is "the accuser" — the one who challenged the religious faith of humans in the books of Job and Zechariah — Abrahamic religious belief systems other than Judaism relate this term to a demon, a rebellious fallen angel, devil, minor god and idolatry, or as an allegory for evil."

OK, our bad. Satan is an Abrahamic concept, not just a Christian one, and certainly not Pagan.

Oct 31 is the 'Pagan New Year'??? I guess if you are making it up as you go along you can pick any day you want. The real pagans, i.e. Greeks and Romans, and let's include the Celts, celebrated New Year at these logical times:
1. The Winter Solstice (Dec 21 22) when the sun ceases going south and starts returning to warm the earth. Saturnalia in ancient Rome. BTW Christmas IS NOT a winter solstice holiday. 2. The Spring Equinox which was harder to figure out than the solstice, so sometime in March will do. Ever wondered why September is Latin for the seventh month? 3. Midsummer night (summer solstice) which was a great time for parties because of the long daylight. The Romans had an illogical New Year Jan 1, which was the when the civil year started. Most people were still hung over from Saturnalia and did not care. And of course the Jews have New Year around the Fall equinox or thereabouts. (Why was in changed from 1 Nissan in the spring??)

In our culture the REAL New Year is the Day School Starts.

Unfortunately, there are apparently many people in the US who are worried about the origins and implications of Halloween. But really, I think there are two reasons why they shouldn't be.

Number One: Halloween itself has become a secular holiday. Yes, it has origins in ancient Pagan religious festivals, but so do a lot of other holidays, both religious and secular. That can't be helped given the fact that ancient Pagans predated the ancient Abrahamic traditions and thus celebrated many holidays throughout the year before those traditions existed. Nowadays, though, Halloween isn't about anything religious. It exists to sell candy and costumes more than anything, and people of all faiths (or none) can use it as an opportunity for an entertaining evening with friends and family.

Number Two: Samhain, which is the modern day descendant of the ancient Pagan harvest festivals, is nothing to be afraid of. If you're not a Pagan, then you can simply not celebrate it. No one will try to perform dark magic on you, or try to steal your soul, or whatever other fears the fear mongers have raised. And if you are a Pagan, then this can be a very important time for honoring dead ancestors, reflecting on the past year, letting go of that which no longer serves you, etc.

The original author mentioned that there are more important things to worry about than Halloween, such as the insane and destructive actions of our current President. I agree entirely that those issues are far more important than the absurd fear mongering around Halloween that comes up at this time every year. However, I disagree with the author's tone, which is very dismissive of a holiday that has great significance to many Pagans.

Part of my Samhain observance will include reflecting on the destruction caused by the likes of Bush, and mourning for those who have died due to his unlawful and unethical actions. Rather than dismissing the holiday as a time of superstition, it would be better to respectfully call on people to take it as an opportunity for serious reflection on the very real issues of life and death that are facing us today in the political sphere.

There are many people who committed their lives to the US military in good faith, and yet were betrayed by Bush and sent to die in a war of conquest. Many of their spirits may remain restless until justice is done and the war is put to an end.

I have been having fun with this word: S-A-T-A-N.

Rearrange the letters.......S-A-N-T-A.

Holy crap. More proof of the conspiracy.

Happy Halloween to all.

Don't let "Santa" Get you.

Oct 31 is the 'Pagan New Year'??? I guess if you are making it up as you go along you can pick any day you want. The real pagans, i.e. Greeks and Romans, and let's include the Celts, celebrated New Year at these logical times:
1. The Winter Solstice (Dec 21 22) when the sun ceases going south and starts returning to warm the earth. Saturnalia in ancient Rome. BTW Christmas IS NOT a winter solstice holiday. 2. The Spring Equinox which was harder to figure out than the solstice, so sometime in March will do. Ever wondered why September is Latin for the seventh month? 3. Midsummer night (summer solstice) which was a great time for parties because of the long daylight. The Romans had an illogical New Year Jan 1, which was the when the civil year started. Most people were still hung over from Saturnalia and did not care. And of course the Jews have New Year around the Fall equinox or thereabouts. (Why was in changed from 1 Nissan in the spring??)

In our culture the REAL New Year is the Day School Starts.

Do your own google search -oh lazy one.

Pray enlighten me, oh wise and nameless one.

"Satan is a Christian thing."

Really? You think the concept of Satan originated with Christians and is exclusive to Christianity?
Better research the subject before you reveal more of your ignorance and predjudices.

Quote: "From ghoulies and ghosties/ And long-leggedy beasties/ And things that go bump in the night/ Good Lord, deliver us!" — Scottish prayer

The modern version: "From Muslims And things that explode 24/7, Good Lord, deliver us.

**people are worried about the religious and satanic implications of Halloween?**

The only people worried about Satanic implications of Halloween are those who don't have the foggiest notion of what it really is, and erroneously equate Paganism and Satanism. Pgans don't believe in the existence of Satan, much less worship such an entity - you can't worship that which you don't believe exists - Satan is a Christian thing. And the common depiciotn of Satan - horns, tail, etc. - is a bastardization of the Pagan Horned God, who is not an avatar of evil, but of the male aspect of the life force, and yes, of death, but death as a natural part of the cycle of life, not as some sort of eternal punsihment for "sin."

I have to agree that Halloween has been over commercialized. We need to back off and give it back to the kids, but with America's true religion, the worship of the Almighty Dollar, still ascendant, it ain't gonna happen. My little town (Blue Ridge Ga) shuts the main street and +5000 folks pack it to get free candy from the merchants, in the 'safe zone'....

My scary costume -- I'm putting on a blonde wig and a dark business suit and going as Ann Coulter.

Happy Reformation Day, Susan!

I had seriously hoped for a question on Martin Luther or John Calvin or even an ecumenical question on this 490th celebration of the most momentous occasion in Western culture...

...but since the question is on Holloween I will depart, I have too much work to do.

I will leave you with a parting thought, Susan, that ignoring the ills and evils of the world, and pretending they do not exist, will not make them go away.

I couldn't agree with you more about the takeover of Halloween by adults. What was once a fun time, as Dr. Joyce Brothers once described it, "A cross between a giggle and a scream" has been ruined by the demented minds of some adults. What a bloody shame.

I couldn't agree with you more about the takeover of Halloween by adults. What was once a fun time, as Dr. Joyce Brothers once described it, "A cross between a giggle and a scream" has been ruined by the demented minds of some adults. What a bloody shame.

Have any idea what I mean, Jay? Pagans will be trying to get our war dead buried with a semblance of honor, or at least non-erasure, or not lose our homes or kids, ... or live a regular life like America promised, and some twitch decides to call himself a 'Satanic Pagan Vampire,' then goes and runs for office in Minnesota claiming to represent Pagans cause he decided real people's lives wasn't worth his ego....

Same kind of ...fellow Earth-walker that comes on Internet forums saying 'Not All Pagans Don't Believe In Satan, Cause, Well, No One Else Will Listen, So I Get To Say What Pagans Are About, Even If For Some Reason I Think Life Is A Finite Quantity I Must Eat."

Seriously.

While I often question the wisdom of some of our Wiccan forebearers calling themselves 'Witches,' anyone *actually calling themselves Satanists* ought not to look to my tribes when they get the fight they picked.

Never mind drag my people into it.

We mean it when we say this Satanic stuff has nothing to do with us.

And that's just what that is.

Actually, Jay, you won't find much sympathy for Satanists among Pagans, cause for years they've been trying to claim they're part of the Pagan umbrella, and if there's one thing Pagans agree on... They aren't.

"Let me get this straight. We have an American president making noises about World War III, wildfires in California, a record rate of home foreclosures, etc., etc., and somewhere in America, people are supposedly worried about the religious and satanic implications of Halloween."

Did someone lead you to believe that these factoids weren't connected in a number of important ways? :)

This question is asked as though satanism is someone's paranoid fantasy- when in fact they are the only religious group shunned by the otherwise open "on faith" boards.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23416914-details/Cannabis-smoking+satanist+admits+knifing+vicar+to+death+in+act+of+'inhuman+savagery'/article.do

http://www.churchofsatan.com/

I didn't state a litmus test for truth, what an odd conclusion. If WaPo asks a question of the panelists they tend not to question the question. If you want to blame some entity for the falsehood blame WaPo, but in any case provide some evidence that it is actually a falsehood before wailing about bigotry.

On the drive home today I heard on the radio a story about conservative Christian groups attempting to ban the wearing of pagan costumes in school-related Halloween celebrations.

From beliefnet.com, story 4828:
"But recently, conservative Christian parents, in particular, have become vocal about their belief that Halloween is a dangerous holiday that glorifies the devil. They have begun demanding that schools stop celebrating Halloween on the grounds that it violates their religious rights.

"For a significant number of people, it represents the full expression of an occultic viewpoint," says Robert Knight, director of cultural studies for the conservative Family Research Council."

This is the same crowd that gives us the burning of Harry Potter books for fear of teaching their kids witchcraft. You may be an agnostic and I admire your effort to stick up for the downtrodden, but you seem to be painfully unaware of what the religious right has been doing to this country, to the extent that you wouldn't recognize the plausibility of the question from WaPo.

Rafael -

Er, I'm an agnostic. I just notice bigotry when I see it. Kind of how you don't have to be black to notice racial bigotry.

"The implication is that someone must be worried along these lines, or the question wouldn't have been asked."

That is your litmus test for truth? How absurd. Have you ever heard of the concept of a "loaded question"? At least they should provide some example before all of the hateful athiests take the opportunity to attack nameless and faceless people.

As for ad hominem attacks, take a look at the hatred on this board from "tolerant" liberals and spare me your selective outrage.

Great ad hominem attack.

Worthless.

Er, Mike, read the question put to the panelists. They were asked if Halloween holds any implications related to devil worship or spiritual reflection, as opposed to just kids fun. The implication is that someone must be worried along these lines, or the question wouldn't have been asked.

Please save your Christian persecution paranoia complex for a more appropriate thread.

""...people are worried about the religious and satanic implications of Halloween"

On what does she base this statment? Is there a particular story she is referring to?

It is sad to see the hateful liberals on this board jumped on this unsubstantiated statment in order to make some bigoted and ignorant comment about Christians.

We get it. You are bigots. Just try to not to be such Pavlovian stooges, waiting to respond to the bell rung by your master.

What is this a Larry King column?

We now know that the writer hates Podhoretz, has mixed feelings on Halloween and likes Valentine's Day.

The writer must really have some ego to think that the public would be interested in her random thoughts pecked out after a box of wine.

These people are way-dam scary but what elevates them to the scare level of an unexpected cancer diagnosis is the intimate influence they have on the boy in the white house.

These people are way-dam scary but what elevates them to the scare level of an unexpected cancer diagnosis is the intimate influence they have on the boy in the white house.

Podhoretz and Hitchens are right-wing shills - who cares whether they're atheists or
observant Jews?? War-mongers are all sleeping in the same bed with Bush & war makes strange bedfellows indeed......

The cause of atheism is not well served by the likes of Christopher Hitchens.

Ave, Wiccan, and well met!

I'm with you all the way - bring on the zombies. Lord, but it's good to find a friend here.

Salve, Arminius! I'd take a horde of brain-eating zombie's over a group of devout fundameltalists any day. I'm no hero.

Catholic missionaries in Ireland piggy-backed pagan festivals to spread the adoption of catholicism. That is one reason the missionaries used halloween as a means to recruit -- it was more fun than all-souls day and all-souls-day eve!

Now the same kind of fundamentalist folks want to turn the clock back and undue halloween! You used it when it suited your purposes and now you want to get rid of it. Killjoys!

Everyone else, lighten up (especially Joshua Udell, man, what a piece of work!).

P.S., Josh: Don't cross my boarders or we'll have to drive you over the border and dump you out!

Jeff, you said,
"If a person truly believes that Halloween is intractably satanic, I recommend they dress up in their most religious outfit, wonder the streets with there text of preference, and read their scriptures. Hey, everyone else is pretending... why not you too?"

Noooooooo - they'd scare the kids!

Any day of the year, any festival, any object, any symbol, any religion, any philosophy can be used for good or evil.

If a person truly believes that Halloween is intractably satanic, I recommend they dress up in their most religious outfit, wonder the streets with there text of preference, and read their scriptures. Hey, everyone else is pretending... why not you too?

Jeff,

When Susan said "...people are worried about the religious and satanic implications of Halloween", she was talking about those benighted individuals who think that Halloween is some sort of satanic festival. There really are such people - I lived next to one once. They say the same thing about Harry Potter. What these beliefs have to do with Christianity totally escapes me.

Halloween isn’t all about demons, devils, and other satanic things. Sure, people make scary movies of murderers and serial killers, but those are always watched in groups where everyone laughs and have fun. Also, most kids dress up as super heroes instead of demons and monsters. And all the costumes that are demons, monsters, and devils are usually made to make fun of them, like having cross-eyed eyes that pop out and a goofy smile. Halloween was made to make fun of the devil, not join him. Its also a good way for kids to dress up as cute things and receive candy and treats.

Halloween isn’t all about demons, devils, and other satanic things. Sure, people make scary movies of murderers and serial killers, but those are always watched in groups where everyone laughs and have fun. Also, most kids dress up as super heroes instead of demons and monsters. And all the costumes that are demons, monsters, and devils are usually made to make fun of them, like having cross-eyed eyes that pop out and a goofy smile. Halloween was made to make fun of the devil, not join him. Its also a good way for kids to dress up as cute things and receive candy and treats.

Halloween isn’t all about demons, devils, and other satanic things. Sure, people make scary movies of murderers and serial killers, but those are always watched in groups where everyone laughs and have fun. Also, most kids dress up as super heroes instead of demons and monsters. And all the costumes that are demons, monsters, and devils are usually made to make fun of them, like having cross-eyed eyes that pop out and a goofy smile. Halloween was made to make fun of the devil, not join him. Its also a good way for kids to dress up as cute things and receive candy and treats.

Few things are nicer to contemplate than small children with perhaps one or two friends in 5th grade and below dressed in unscary homemade costumes being walked around by their parents to meet their neighbors and receive one piece of candy at each house just before it gets dark.

Unfortunately, in many communities Halloween is not defined this way.

If Halloween's focus is good things: parents are involved with their children's lives, older youth are transitioning to adulthood by helping their parents meet neighbors and give out candy, children's imaginations, creativity, and hard-work are engaged by creating their own costumes, exercise occurs as people are walking about, additional exercise occurs when only one piece of candy is given per residence so that more walking is required, community is supported by people meeting their neighbors, respect for neighbors property can be taught by parents, parents can also teach their children healthy eating habits by only allowing them to eat one piece a day, etc.

If Halloween's focus is bad things: parents are absent, commercialism is promoted, devaluation of people as merely sexual objects occurs (due to costume choices), gluttony and obesity is promoted, children learn nothing, children are left vulnerable to abuse because they are wondering the streets late at night without supervision.

The primary prompting of the post was, "We have talk of World War III, wildfires in California, record home foreclosures, and people are worried about the religious and satanic implications of Halloween?"

I'm confused by the prompt. Is it to say that if a few children are abused or neglected on Halloween... who cares because we should be worried about preventing WWIII? Actually, I think teaching children to be kind, respectful, healthy, imaginative, creative, and hard-working is one of the best opportunities at my disposal to prevent WWIII.

If you listen to the words the President is using he qualifies the Iran Striking moment as "when they have ""the knowledge"" of how to build the bomb."

Go back to about one year ago if you will, remember the missing Los Alimos laptop that contained ""the knowledge""?

I dare you to put the two ideas together.

A strike may be brewing baised on a future top level unverified claim.

Talk with your representatives and let them know it's time to get the bull out of the china shop.

-M

>>The evil and filth of the neocon/zionist cabal is almost beyond comprehension; wars, torture, apartheid, assassination, brutality, rabid nationalism and racism, constant lies.

The evil and filth of despots such as Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin, wars they started, torture they comitted, assassins they hired, brutality they were known for...along with their racism and constant lies.

So, whats the point? Yet another atheist perspective from one who thinks they know all and are ignorant of the fact that mankind has chosen his own path...but lets just blame Christians or Jews. Rubbish.

Daniel,

In the past 2 or 3 years it has gained popularity. I just googled "Bratz Halloween Costume" (as my 9 year old sister is into Bratz and goes trick-or-treating) and was a little put off by the costumes aimed at these young girls. I also took her trick-or-treating last year along with my other (even younger) sister and her twin brother. In the small town where my family is from it wasn't as apparent as it is in the larger city where I now live.

There weren't any pictures in that article I linked, but if you are interested in investigating, do an internet search. But, be careful what you Google...word-selection is key if you don't want some XXX sites popping up.

You said:
"Some people read innocent kids' Halloween costumes as "smutty" because, well, because, to them, EVERYTHING is smutty."

Well, yes and no. Some people will read "smutty" into these costumes simply because they have smut on the mind. Others will see these costumes and think they're smutty because they want to protect their children (or, in my case, pseudo children) from being looked at as sex-objects.

To: Andrea

All I said is that I was not seeing smutty kids' costumes during Halloween. Is it really a fad that is sweeping the nation? Then how come it is so unnoticeable? I read the article. It didn't have any pictures, so I couldn't really judge what they were talking about. I guess I gotta go with my own experiences.

This was a great piece, Susan, but far too subtle for most of your responders. The evil and filth of the neocon/zionist cabal is almost beyond comprehension; wars, torture, apartheid, assassination, brutality, rabid nationalism and racism, constant lies. And these craven Satanic Podhoretz' and their ilk think NOTHING of starting WWIII (with Iran or Syria), as long as WE do all the dirty-work and Israel comes out on top. It boggles the mind and sickens the heart. Yet most of the idiots here would rather talk about a silly children's holiday!! Then again, these are probably the same dumber-than-celery born-again losers who think that Jesus Christ himself will rescue their pathetic souls for all the filth and depravity they've embraced. Even though Christ (and the Bible) said nothing of the sort.

I truly hope Christ does come back soon, since it's so many of his race (Jews) and followers (Christians) who are the sickest and most degenerate of all. These people have far more (mostly innocent) blood on their hands than Bin Laden and Saddam combined and multiplied by 1000. But no, let's talk about HALLOF%$^&INGWEEN!!! Then again, maybe it takes a demon to know one.

>>Some people read innocent kids' Halloween costumes as "smutty" because, well, because, to them, EVERYTHING is smutty.

>>I think people read into things what they already believe

Is this guy serious?

RE: Joshua Udell: "blah, blah, blah, blah"

OMG! I can't believe this guy has his own blog! Did blogging take the place of fingerpainting at the group home? Are you related to frequent poster JOZEVZ by any chance?

Daniel,

RE:provocative costumes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/29/AR2007102902095_pf.html

Here's the link for the story Father Reese mentions in his post. We're not making this crap up!

Norman Cone:

I agree as well. Ms. Jacoby is snide, unkind, and slightly ridiculous. That she dislikes Commentary is unsurprising. That she stoops to mouthy personal attacks is--for both her and The Washington Post--unfortunate.

What are you talking about, Susan?

The Podhoretz Family is on your team!

They are hawkish secular, leftist who are aggressively working to stamp out a region once dominated by Muslim believers through violence and war....to make it a playground for material secularists like yourself.

PS - Hitchens, your favorite fellow atheist, is a big backer of Norman Podhoretz and the new form of permanent violent revolution found in Iraq and, hopefully for you, Iran.

Neo Cons = secular utopians....your kind of people

Dear Susan

When I was little, before people would put poison or razer blades in children's candy, and most kids trick-or-treated freely, my parents, still, would not allow us to go to anyone's house for trick-or-treating, unless we knew them. Therefore, me and my three brothers only ended up with a couple of hands full of candy, which was enough. (Some of our friends carried home shopping bags full of candy; most of it went to waste and had to be thrown away).

Also, I am just not seeing these "smutty" kids' costumes that people are talking about. Has anyone ever actually seen a kid on Halloween dressed in a "smutty" costume? Maybe this is just an urban legend. I think people read into things what they already believe. Some people read innocent kids' Halloween costumes as "smutty" because, well, because, to them, EVERYTHING is smutty.

I have slept and seen the dating pill as it has defiled many innocent. God says, this has gone too far for what you have seen take place with this substance will be a bigger law to stop people from slipping this drug into drinks.

The sound of abundance in coming to America, for there is a season where your property will be low, and then there will be a new season for the housing market to double in size! For you know that a double portion is coming, a new beginning for many is coming, for I tell you now as God has spoken, the old is gone and the new is here. For the economy, for gold, for fuel, for resources coming and going from your lands America! For this will bring you to one of the greatest harvests ever! For you will have new allies in the war, and they will say, we want to help you end the war in Iraq, you have served and fought, now let us focus our attention on the caves and mountains of Pakistan and Afghanistan, for there is a man there who is known to have started the chaos in the Middle East starting a destroying spirit all around the world, and his time is here.

Halloween, there is a season for all to celebrate, but did you not know that I am to be celebrated everyday? I do not stand for seasons of fear and intimidation, but it looks Me in the eye and cannot bare the sight of My presence. For long ago in a place there were evil deeds done every year on this day with chants and séances and I tell you it has continued. Before this time it was to the pagan gods, do not be fooled, for now I tell you what you do in the night hours will be exposed in the light. For many flee from the light knowing that they are full of darkness, and they say, we enjoy our pleasures so much more! For there are others who have given themselves completely to Me and are piercing the darkness, and I tell you on this night, there will be nothing but the light piercing the darkness, for I am God and I rule over everyday!

Did you hear about the freedom that is coming in Iran? When they say, and I tell you, is this man not like Pharaoh before a Moses generation? And as this Moses generation is freed from the bondage from the oppressors there will be many signs and wonders taking place in Iran. Have you heard and seen the season is upon them, for there will be a strike in the Persian Palace that will cause toads to come out of the water, and from the stick of the shepherd will come the snake, and from the children will come visitation from Jesus himself, no not the twelfth imam, for this crazy man has hardened his heart to the voices of the nations and whoever holds him close will see then sound of war from heavens armies, for God's hand is moving in and making His own in this nation.

What is in the dust, a particle that makes a man sneeze, and in the sneeze is motion, I am telling you a secret, not at all like what you think for in these tiny elements of dust is a noise a vibrating noise that is carried in the air. I vibration of a kind that sends these particles in movement, the come from the ground in the dirt in the sky they are everywhere but you must evaluate them and listen to the noise that the wind makes for in time you moving planes and vehicles will see that dust busters is a not just a gimme, but will be broken down into energy! Wind, dust, power, air, motion, says the Lord.

Unusual, an unusual month is coming to America, for believe Me rains in the coasts and Midwest feeling record temperatures in this nation. For have I not told you that this month there will be many captured who are trying to harm this nation. I the Lord have spoken. Tunnels will be found, videos with clues and a Presidential candidate that begins to get the attention that he rightfully deserves! Why would I have it any other way? But they say, oh, why is he so liberal? And God says, Freedom from liberty! For he will give this nation freedom again and a season where God's voice coincide with his every move!

Even in Texas there is a time to cross boarders and enter in, but this entering is not of My permission for this is a declaration of a fugitive who wants to enter out while threats happen within. For the Spirit of God has spoken this and told me to write it down so that those can discern a message can expose it.

http://jcudell.blogspot.com/

Gavin082 stated:

>>Re: Bumsurf

>>Evidently too dumb to only hit 'post' once too...

Is that the best you can do, Gavin082?...talk about grasping at straws. Definitely not a person with a lot of substance, Bumsurf....not to worry.

Re: Bumsurf

Evidently too dumb to only hit 'post' once too...

Let me see if I get this straight, right wing = scary, dumb, Neanderthal, and dangerous. That must mean on the flip side that left wing = duh! I'm just too dumb to complete that equation. What an arogant jerk!

Let me see if I get this straight, right wing = scary, dumb, Neanderthal, and dangerous. That must mean on the flip side that left wing = duh! I'm just too dumb to complete that equation. What an arogant jerk!

Norman Cone:

Agreed, wholeheartedly...

Mindless and unprofessional...and her added 'Boo' scares no one.

John Podhoretz is at least as qualified to edit the
Commentary magazine as Susan Jacoby is to publish a blog in the Washington Post. I find her personal attacks on Norman and John Podhoretz highly unprofessional and inappropriate. Father and
son Podhoretz are certainly less "ghoulish" then their critics.

totally agree with amazing

"The hedonism and revelry associated with days like Halloween, Christmas, etc..and the shortening of childhood with such provocative costumes for pre-adolescents and the way society has literally robbed innocence from children..among too many other things to mention..."

I recently attended an atheist halloween party that featured the Pope, the Virgin Mary, The Grand Inquisitor, a pregnant nun and God.

Everyone got along great.

An interesting aside (and nod!) to the times we live in: At my place of employment, we were forbade to use the word "Halloween" itself, as it is perceived as offensive by certain (guess who!) groups. The preferred words to say are "spooky" and "haunted". A two-fer: good times and fractured grammar!

That is just the modern world. There is not one thing that will be left alone if somebody can get fame or money from it, Halloween is no exception. For reasons that I cannot figure out, people these days either can't or do not want to grow up. I am not saying do not have fun in life, just act your age.

actually Valentine's Day is going the way of other holidays, and it's a shame. us overachieving, overcompetitive, overindulged Americans try to turn everything into a contest, where you top last year and of course, the Joneses. everyone has to throw a themed birthday party for their two year old that costs a zillion bucks and involves a professional event planner.

I do, however, like the really fancy pumpkin carving stencils, and take great pride in skillfully executing the most difficult patterns (put crumpled aluminum foil on the uncut walls to reflect the light source, and the new strobe and color changing lights are very effective, not to mention safer than candles, and spray WD40 to keep the carving from shrivelling)

halloween without adult supervision - what fun that would be. and if adults just enjoyed it as the pagans did, a festival of renewal, rebirth, the natural order, and a touch of mystery - ah well, one can dream. happy halloween!

The author is right for the most part (except that Valentine's day is probably the most evil holiday on the face of the earth since it is based on expectation and not free will).

Who cares about the religious implication of Halloween when these crazy neoconservatives will probably cause WW3?

At least we know what young adults will wear for Halloween--SOLDIER UNIFORMS.

I miss the days when we religious people focused on what the Bible focused on: feeding the hungry, healing the sick, and being good to each other. (I don't recall any mention of Blackwater in the Bible each of the three times I read it.)

Name another holiday where you're supposed to do something nice for the children of people you don't even know. That said, Halloween is the best of holidays.

Name another holiday where you're supposed to do something nice for the children of people you don't even know. That said, Halloween is the best of holidays.

Ms Jacoby, I agree with you about Valentine's Day. For a wonderful fictional musing on a historical account of Valentine's Day, read Chet Raymo's novel Valentine. Also, readers of On Faith might his blog at www.sciencemusings.com particularly if they are skeptics with an interest in science and philosophy.

The hedonism and revelry associated with days like Halloween, Christmas, etc..and the shortening of childhood with such provocative costumes for pre-adolescents and the way society has literally robbed innocence from children..among too many other things to mention...our beloved country is on a path of destruction that so many unfortunately turn a blind eye to. Some will retort that this type of comment is from someone who thinks the sky is falling. Well....its not the sky thats falling. History has shown the same. If we are so enlightened, you would think our society would only be getting stronger with truth, honesty and values not being trampled on, but rather more and more encouraged. Deceit has a stronghold on us more than ever.

Speaking of dogs, my costume on Saturday's party was Michael Vick getting attacked by dogs. It involved a ripped-up eBay Vick jersey, red food coloring and stuffed dogs pinned to by outfit to look like they were biting me. It was awesome. I want to find an excuse to wear it again tomorrow.

I wonder if Susan thinks adult Halloween dress-up is lame as well. The doggy parade is pretty bad, though. It's something my aunt would do.

Judging from the way John looks, I'd say his real problem with Halloween is that his parents let him eat too much candy when he was little.

Ah, yes, Halloween. Two outrageous costumes come to mind.

This one I saw. One year we took our young kids to the local mall because the stores were all handing out candy. At one store the person doing the job of offering assorted sugary concoctions was dressed as a nun. OK, so what? you ask. She had stuffed a pillow in the habit to make her look very pregnant, and had a sign that read "The Devil made me do it!" I must have laughed for 5 minutes.

The other costume I did not see, but heard about on radio. It also involves a nun. A man was recounting childhood memories. He had attended a Catholic school, in the days when the nuns (teachers) were feared because they were so quick to smack a wrist with a ruler. His parents asked him what monster he wanted to be for Halloween. His reply: a nun! Needless to say, his parents were not amused, so he settled for dracula. But he designed his costume so that, when he was out of sight of mom and dad, he could rearrange it to look like a nun.

I hope I have not offended anyone. The nuns I have met seem to be very nice people.

"One assumes, however, that this is a Pagan's biggest holyday calling up the demons of the demented in all sorts of satanic rituals."

One would assume wrongly. Halloween, or Samhain, is the Pagan's New Year. It's the time when the Earth starts to go fallow, the final harvest, and the plants die off for the winter months. We celebrate it by honoring our ancestors and those who have died during this past year. It's closer to the Mexican Dia de los Muertes (forgive my spelling, Spanish-speakers) than anything "evil". The only people calling up demons are those idiots who think it's cool to go out to a cemetery, get wasted, and attempt some ritual that they saw in a horror movie. Then, of course, the aftermath gets blamed on the Pagans.

And, for your information, most Pagans LOVE Halloween. We don't take it seriously. We decorate, hand out the candy to the little beggars, then go and have our real ritual.

I'm going as the Danish cartoons of Mohammad.

I'm an atheist but dressing up as the scariest thing I can think of this Halloween. I'm going as a priest!

"Halloween originated from the Pagan festival Samhain, celebrated among the Celts of Ireland and Great Britain. Irish and Scottish immigrants carried versions of the tradition to North America in the nineteenth century."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

Halloween is now harmless fun with some important capitalistic functions i.e. increased candy and costume sales.

One assumes, however, that this is a Pagan's biggest holyday calling up the demons of the demented in all sorts of satanic rituals.

Hmmm, having The Jihadist in an Muslim burqa attend a Halloween party would be a great way to put fear into the other guests. No "demons of the demented" required at that party.

There's really only one thing I can think of that anyone should seriously object to - how smutty kids' Halloween costumes are getting.

Oh, wait, and I also object to dressing up poor defenseless animals in costumes. I agree with Jihadist,

"Are the dogs allowed to pick out their own costumes and dates for their Haloween party? If not, I'll alert the SPCA on such unjust cruelties inflicted by their owners - all possibly sick puppies who thought their dogs look cute in such costumes."

I agree. $10 says the bride and groom were brother and sister.

Haloween? Oh!

- People "supposedly worried about the religious and satanic implications of Halloween?"

So, Haloween is not an annual treat for children and adults, but getting religiously and socially tricky now to celebrate?

So, Haloween is not just a costume party for adults to dress up as Napoleon or Joan of Arc or Darth Vader, act silly and have fun?

Us religious folks truly believe Haloween is the work of the devil and the idle ones. The devil will tempt us to do evil things, including date rape and going home with someone else's partner after the Haloween party.

A real horror of Haloween would be Jamie Lee Curtis signing up for "Haloween: H30."

Another horror would be Mr. Christopher Hitchens to go as himself in a Taliban or Evangelical Haloween party. A really terrifying experience. Not for them. For him.

I will go all dressed up in a burqa to Mr. Chistopher Hitchens' Hallowen party, and, the mother of all horrors, to quote Suras from the Qur'an to him.

Of course, having Mr. Christopher Hitchens at my Haloween party would be most terrifying if I don't restrict his liquids to ginger ale and root beer.

- Adults "throwing Halloween costume parties for dogs?"

Are the dogs allowed to pick out their own costumes and dates for their Haloween party? If not, I'll alert the SPCA on such unjust cruelties inflicted by their owners - all possibly sick puppies who thought their dogs look cute in such costumes.

And I still remember reading about a father who gave his child poisoned candy as Haloween trick or treat. The child died.

Happy Haloween anyway.

"J"

What a boring question.What boring responses.
YYYyyyyaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

I grew up in the UK,and when I moved this side of the pond I had no idea what Halloween was.
It's candy time for kids.But it makes gluttons out of them.My kids take pillow cases and bring them back full of candies,two or three times.
And I have to sit in the porch giving out candies to other peoples kids.
I understand that they now have Halloween in the UK.
What a pity. They already have "Bonfire Night" on November 5 to celebrate Guy Fawkes failed attempt to blow up the houses of parliament in 1606.

I love the IDEA of Halloween. Stocking up on candy and handing it out to trick-or-treaters is another matter. I love giving treats to younger kids but some of the teenagers can be louts.

Anyway, at our place in the hills surrounding Dartmouth College, we've had one trick-or-treater child come by in the last 31 years.

Not too burdensome.