On The Unreliability of Compassion Without Enforceable Law

As soon as I read about Karen Armstrong's plan for formulating a charter of compassion, I was reminded instantly of the work of Professor Hans Kueng at the Global Ethic Foundation and its comprehensive document accepted at the World Parliament of Religions: Declaration Toward a Global Ethic. (Aside: I had mentioned that document and posted a link to it on this forum over 18 months ago when an atheist blogger, with the username, Acrapist, and I managed to finally agree - it goes without saying we disagreed on every other point all the time - even though God is taken for a completely dispensable entity by all atheists, ethics is not. Since 6 billion people with 6 billion + 1 different ideas of right and wrong cannot not build any kind of international society, there was a need for global ethics in an ever more interdependent world.)

http://www.global-ethic.org/dat-english/index.htm

http://www.global-ethic.org/pdf_decl/Decl_english.pdf

Although the comprehensive document was accepted the World Parliament of Religions fifteen years ago, it would seem that its existence is little known. In my personal opinion there is an urgent need to disseminate that comprehensive document, which has covered every aspect of ethics based on all religions and has been accepted unanimously at the World Parliament. Through the United Nations, it could be distributed to all the religious and secular authorities in all member countries. The religious groups and religious leaders reading this forum could do their part in spreading the good word to their own religious communities.

A new Charter on Compassion should cover new ground, areas that have not been yet covered by the document that already exists, without repeating what has been already accepted by an international body, The World Parliament of Religions.

Compassion is a state of mind and heart which reflects a certain level of consciousness. Unless there are clear instructions for action, those who are not at the same level of consciousness would not automatically act in compassionate ways. The parable of the Good Samaritan by Jesus in answer to the question: who is my neighbor and how should I love him? is a perfect example of how religious leaders taught compassion.

The document prepared by the Global Ethic Institute and adopted by the World Parliament of religions can be used not only by people of all religions but also equally well by atheists.

And the OT left how many dead in its wake of atrocity examples? Might want to calculate the deaths in percentages to make a fair comparison to OT and NT periods of atrocities, all in the name of god.

Another point:

To use the term "OT" is offensive as those I mention below note. That designation represents the colonization of another people's text and culture.

Pace Edward Said, the sine qua non of imperialism is stealing another people's culture and "explaining" it to them.

"Religion should not be cut in stone, but feed the souls of the people. When religion becomes hidebound it becomes a master and the people it's slaves."

There have been calls from nearly all quarters of Christianity/Catholocisim for revision of the New (sic) Testament so as to rid it of its essentializing, reification, and blatant proto-racist anti-semitism. Rosemary Reuther, among the Catholics; Haynes among the Protestants; and most recently, and very encouragingly twelve Orthodox clergy, have all called for this.

The hardening took place 16 or 17 centuries ago, has left hundreds of millions dead in its wake. Time to rethink, rebuild, consider the hardening of heart that has so characterized this belief system.

Farnaz2,

There are quite a few Gods whose religious practices we see mirrored in today's Christianity. Mithra is one that I think of most...he was born of a Virgin on the Winter Solstice...he was called the Son of God. He died for the peace of the world...the Mithrain religion started in Persia about 600 years before Christianity. It covered a good portion of the known world. It was spread by soldiers, they became devotees of Mithra.

He was considered a great traveling teacher and masters. He had twelve companions, also performed miracles. He was called The Good Shepherd...a figure of Mithra was found that pictured him with a lamb across his shoulders, very simular to the figurine of Jesus created much later.
Mithras seems to have owed his prominence to the belief that he was the source of life, and could also redeem the souls of the dead into the better world ... The ceremonies included a sort of baptism to remove sins, anointing, and a sacred meal of bread and water, while a consecrated wine, believed to possess wonderful power, played a prominent part.

We have this meal of bread and water...or cake and wine as part of our rites.
"May you never thirst, may you never hunger."

Then there is Dionysus. Dionysus was the only God to have one mortal parent. His mother was mortal while His father was Zeus. In one story Dionysus's mother is killed while He is still in the womb, but His father Zues takes Dionysus and places him inside of himself...after a while when Dionysus is fully ready to be born , he is birthed out of his Father.

Dionysus is a late comer to the Greek Pantheon...he is the god of ritual and of wine. Much of Christian worship seems to be a combination of Mithra and Dionysus.

As a Wiccan I pay homage (we do not think of worship in the way Christians do) to a sacrifical god of life, death and rebirth. There are many ancient gods that have that attribute.

I would say that Christianity has the Pagan DNA. Just as my religion is a renewal for this time and modern worshippers...religion needs to change or it does not do what it needs to. Religion should not be cut in stone, but feed the souls of the people. When religion becomes hidebound it becomes a master and the people it's slaves.

terra

Hmmm, the Immoral Majority's BO and his wife are getting a dog. Adopting an "unwanted" child would be the better option and would show that BO really does have some compassion.

"Well I think that most religious "commandments" came about because they were the easiest way for the community to get along."

Religions are syncretic. The Christians/Catholics have Christ. Comparative religionists note the extensive borrowings from Dionysus, Osiris, Tammuz, et al. The blood/wine, bread/flesh business, among other things, is surely taken from the cult of Dionysus.

Bun-Bun,

Check out the Hammurabi Codex, the oldest legal code found. Hammurabi was the Priest King of Mesopotamia/Babylon/Iraq. If you read them you will find the 10 commandments...just in slightly different words.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.html
Well I think that most religious "commandments" came about because they were the easiest way for the community to get along.

Christians have the 10 commandments, Wiccans have The Rede...each faith has something that enabled that society to live in harmony.

For Wiccans we may have the Rede but also many other laws that help us to understand what the Rede is. It is not as simple as what it seems. But then no religious law is simple...they are all set in layers.

No religion is literal... specially religions that come from other languages. Religious meaning loses something in translation.

terra

The following rules that evolved over 60,000+ years of human history:

"Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself"
"Honor Thy Parents"
"Thou Shall not Kill"
"Thou Shall not Steal"
"Thou Shall not Bear False Witness"
"Thou Shall not Commit Adultery"
"Thou Shall not Covet Thy Neighbor's Wife/Husband/Children"

God/nature is not involved because of the inherent laws of free will and future.

I also believe that the big 10 are a guide to strive for. The world would be a better place if we just followed them.

I also know that when Christ interpreted the 10 he said that we need to go beyond the obvious, Thou shalt not kill, but thou should not harbor resentment or anger that leads to killing.

So the Big 10 was created to show people that they cannot be good enough to meet Gods standard.
_________________________

The Tanakh not only states the Ten Commandments, but all that is necessary for humankind to follow them. This text makes clear that humanity is fully capable of perfecting the world, that Hashem asks nothing of humankind that it cannot perform.

A god that would ask humanity to do that which it could not would be a horror indeed, would almost demand human sacrifice. Where, oh where would one find such a god today?

Edward Said wrote that imperialists take another people's culture and interpret it for them. Sound familiar, oh reader of the New (sic) Testament?

Dear Keira,

Thank you very much for your post. Most Americans, because the media in league with the Administration keeps the horrors of this war from the public cannot imagine what is occurring in Syria. Arabs from all over the Middle East come to Damascus to have sex with Iraqi boys and girls.

Italian girls, boys, women prostituted commonly prostituted themselves during WWII in order to feed their families. Again, there is nothing peculiar to Arabs or to the Middle East in this.
War, starvation, and desperation create it.

All over the world, people are watching over a hundred thousand Iraqi refugees on the move. They see Afghanistan, the body parts everywhere. Americans don't see it, and, therefore, cannot imagine the hatred against us that we engender daily.

Those of us with friends abroad beg them to tell everyone they know that the media-government complex is keeping this from us. And that's not all it's keeping from us, more on which later.

Interesting that no Americans know anything, or I should say, so few Americans know anything about the three million of us Jews in exile from the Middle East, what we have seen. As a child I watched a family friend murdered in the street by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Egyptian, Syrian, Yemeni Jews have also seen the unspeakable.

Yet, Americans know nothing of this. Always best to wonder this: Who benefits?

I've found the answer is Never Obvious.

Best to you,
Farnaz

Farnaz2,
Back in 1953 I was a young girl...very young, but old enough to remember sights and smells. My dad was in the Army Air Corp..what later became to be the Air Force. He was in WW2 and after was stationed in North Africa. My Mother, my baby brother and I went to join him after Dad got organized.

We got to Tripoli...which is now called Libya...and you could tell it had been through a war. It was a place of beauty and ruin...ancient narrow streets and bazaars...of tall beautiful people and women wearing the Barracan. We lived in town at first, over a coffee shop... and I can still recall the sounds of the call to prayer from the muezzins five times a day, and sneaking down to the shop at night and watching the belly dancers..one could bend over backward, shaking her hips with a glass of water on her forehead.

I also remember the orphans that crowded on each marble door step, hunting through garbage and sleeping in doorways. They were part German, or part American and at the age of 13 was thrown out of the only safe place they knew. There were thousands of them.

The young girls turned to prostitution. The boys to crime..my mother found one asleep on our door step and brought him in. She got his clotheing from the sears catalog and taught him to sleep in a bed and eat with a fork. His name was Friz...his dad a German soldier we thought. When we left North Africa Mom got Fritz a job at the US embassy.

Then we moved out to an oasis...a place where the Nomads came through and rested out side of our gate with their camels and sheep...and the women wore coins and was free..no heavy robes. I would sneak out and while Mom was boiling water so that we did noty get sick, I would eat Cush cush and drink Mares milk with them...I did not get sick.

Then Dad took Mom and I to Tunis..over the Mountains to what had been a POW camp of the Nazis. Long, block buildings with dirt floors. Names etched into the walls, some of those names had the Star of David next to them... small crumbly holes everywhere and rust stains layered down the walls. Under the names and holes and stars was huge naked ladies...one would take up the whole long wall...and little parachutes dropping on her.

I remember being in my Dad's arms with my head on his shoulder...Dad had explained to me what had happened there. That people had died.

I had seen children my age eating out of garbage cans, sleeping in the desert cold on cold steps and in dirty allys...I smelled death and blood and saw little girls on street corners begging money.

I have other memories also , some really great ones of a wonderful people and an ancient city.But my deepest memories are of jeeps and camels crowding narrow streets.. and eating with my right hand only from a large bowl that was shared by all..with honey dipped sheep eyes looking at me.

I saw the left overs of war.
terra

StudentOfTheWorld

“Thankfully God sent Christ to meet that standard for us if we chose to accept him doing that for us.”

I think this is where Christianity and I part ways. Christianity for me rings too much about how unworthy we are where as I read much of it as Christ was here as an example of what we can become. As EFavorite says “religion is an unnecessary overlay.”

I don’t take that to mean useless but not required.

Imagine what the world would be like if we forgot all the rules imposed by religion and just lived with compassion and love as preeminent motivation for interacting with each other. What affect would this have on killing, war, rape, greed, poverty, sadness, business, climate change, education and the evolution of society? There would, be enough “things” for everyone.

It would change everything.

SPIRITUALMONGREL
Thanks for the support.

I also believe that the big 10 are a guide to strive for. The world would be a better place if we just followed them.

I also know that when Christ interpreted the 10 he said that we need to go beyond the obvious, Thou shalt not kill, but thou should not harbor resentment or anger that leads to killing.

So the Big 10 was created to show people that they cannot be good enough to meet Gods standard. The Bible said we all fall short of the glory of God. There is none righteous no not one! Thankfully God sent Christ to meet that standard for us if we chose to accept him doing that for us.

Therefore we have relationship, which is most important to God. Then we should, because of his great love, want to live by the rules.

Rules with out Relationship = Rebellion!

Hi, EFavorite,

Good to see you back, even if only sporadically. There has been a serious brain drain here lately.

Hi Daniel ITLD - yes, I'm still around - but have been involved in other endeavors, and not as vigilant here as before. Good to see you here.

Different religions beat up on each other because they are human - and can be compassionate for the same reason. Religion is an unnecessary overlay, in my opinion.

StudentofTheWorld

“HE loved everyone but not everyone meets His standard. So what do you do with His standards?”

Well put.

I heard an interesting commentary from a non Christian spiritual teacher on the ten commandments that could possibly be applied to Christ’s standards.

Perhaps the commandments were not rules per say but a measuring stick on one’s path to Godliness, enlightenment, pick your destination. The more you followed the Ten Commandments the closer you are to acting like an enlightened being. That take on the Ten Commandments did even get some support from Christian scholars. I don’t recall all the details or the players but using this does make some sense to me.

In relation to Christ’s standards, perhaps this is the same we should look at them. Currently 99.999% of the world’s population does not come “close” to living these standards they try daily and fail daily. Perhaps this is due to our spiritual evolution as a species? Our issues with religion seem to come from following rules. Perhaps they are meant as a way to measuring ourselves (not others) more than they are rules that have to be followed?

In the mean time love and compassion are not rules they are just something you do, something you are. Perhaps that is why they are the strongest messages of religion. It seems Christ started with love and worked form there.

Farnaz - right you are again. Accurate, unbiased reporting is a vanished media commodity. Real journalism has gone the way of big business and bigger media celebrity salaries....not to mention the recent phenomenon of media monopolies and right-wing media moguls.

Even the New York Times is succumbing by virtue of Rupert Murdock's stewardship.

I'll have to check out the Blair/Bush reports that you mention - we've all been suffering from light deprivation, living at the edge of a black hole for the last 8 years.

Hopefully that dark era is coming to an end for good.

Studentoftheword:

"Bringing someone to justice is compassion."

That is very much the point. The opposition between justice and compassion is false, a false binary, a reprehensible notion probably responsible for more death, more horror than any other belief.

Moreover, and I apologize for any offense, it is honored at the convenience of the Christians. The bombing, the slaughter of Afghan people for a crime orchestrated by one man, shows no human decency, let alone compassion, or "forgiveness."

It was New York that finally started prosecuting pedophile priests and only after the death of John Cardinal O'Connor. O'Connor was a greatly respected man, notwithstanding his views on gay marriage, abortion, etc. Once Egan took over, the powers that be (I'm forgetting his name) decided, thank God, that a pedophile is a pedophile, priestly or not. Meanwhile the Church was busy being compassionate to them, sending them from one Parish to the next, or for "treatment."

Do you see? Denying justice not only denies justice to the victims, but produces more victims, in this case more raped children, not only by known pedophiles, but by new ones all but invited into the clergy to rape new generations.

In this way, the sins of the father are visited upon, continued by the sons.

Persiflage,

I'll get the title for you. The reason most Americans have no idea of what is occurring around the world, of America's role in much of it is the same reason why they have so little knowledge of what is occurring in their own country. We have no fourth estate.

As a result, when persons such as I expose the truth, at times, replete with incontrovertible sources, I am either ignored or targeted for hostility. Anything rather than read and discover.

Do readers of this blog know anything at all of the massive refugee crisis in Iran? Of the hundred thousand on the move, homeless, now in other countries?

Of the male and female child prostitution of Iraqi children in Syria? Arabs from all over the Middle East flock there to avail themselves of these little ones' services. I know people who have seen this first hand, and the sight is staggering. There is nothing peculiar to the Middle East or to Arabs in this. War creates this sort of thing; it created it in Europe during WWII.

We created it in Syria in the 21st century. A man I know a Pashtun who divides his time between this country, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, has brought back pictures of limbs, hands on the ground, along roads.

Do we see pictures of any of this? Why not?
(I know why not.)

Gee. It's interesting, isn't it? When the media want to show us horrifying pictures, wants to demonize one group or another, but particularly one group, they have no problem doing it. And, when some of the footage turns out to be fraudulent, or not to have occurred quite as presented, one can learn the truth only on the web, and then only if one knows the questions to ask, where to look, etc. As for that group of demons and the blood they shed the limbs, hands, feet severed from bodies, I guess they don't photograph so well.

The child prostitution arising out of this disgusting war can be found on the web, if you're interesting.

So can Tony Blair's commissioned report on British anti-semitism, and George Bush's commissioned report on American anti-semitism. My guess is you never knew either existed. Am I right, my friend?

If so, take a look. It will scare the be-Jesus out of you. Better than S. King, but not better than Iraqi child prostitutes in Syria, limbs all over Afghanistan.

Thanks for your comments, Farnaz - I would be interested in the book you mention.

Natural-born Americans such as myself have no concept of the cultural dislocation that you've so well described - or the sub-human lives that countless displaced refuges from Iran, Iraq and elsewhere in the Mid East and Africa are forced to endure because of war and totalitarian regimes.

Having been to my own war, I still never had any real idea who the enemy or the allies actually were - they could be either/or, depending on a given day. That realization only became clear long after the fact.

Many Americans seem not to feel that they have a stake in these vast human rights debacles happening elsewhere in the world, if they're even aware of them (more than likely a vague awareness, at best).

It seems as though the concept of self-preservation includes ourselves, our families and our cultural kindred, in that order.....compassion outside the (tribal) family circle drops off precipitiously.

How does a new President get their bearings and maintain focus at the same time? As a recent article in Media Matters points out, if Obama is left to his own devices in Washington, D.C. without the clearly enunciated expectations and continued inspiration of the electorate driving him on, he'll be eaten alive by special interests, entrenched bureaucrats, corporate and Pentagon lobbyists, and in the end, devoured by the self-perpetuating process that has been passing for government in recent years.

Voters should never believe that achieving that 'better world' happens automatically because the 'right' person or persons have been elected. We made the right choice, without a doubt, but the honeymoon will soon be over. There's one hell of a mess to clean up, with no end to new problems.

Today we see Hillary Clinton mentioned as a possible choice for Secretary of State - I'd like to claim that I said it first, but I forgot to write it down at the time...

Good luck, President Obama!

"The Unreliability of Compassion Without Enforceable Law "

An Abortion ban is compassion for the yet to be born babies and should be made a law. Good point there Susan.

Atheists are very confusing, what is it in your brains that is so hard to understand?

JUSTILLTHEN

Not sure where I made the Bible say what I wanted it too?

Nor did I say that this now makes everything compassion? Murder is not compassion but defending the defenseless is. Bringing someone to justice is compassion.

Since no one is with out some kind of standards and you no what is moral? By who’s standard? Morality/standards with out God is a slippery slope, because it changes with who ever can make it law or enforce it!

So what are we suppose to change to, your standard of morality or mine or someone else’s?

Disallowing others to follow their own will…. I never said they/however could not do what ever they desire, but we as a society do not have to except it and compromise our morals from God and make it legal!

I do take my relationship with Christ serious and try to live by it. I hate to break it to you but Jesus had standards. HE loved everyone but not everyone meets His standard. So what do you do with His standards?

Persiflage,

There are over 1,000,000 Bahai in Iran. Go to the UN Website for info. on their current highly precarious status. Many have left, but many cannot leave.For the Bahai, gender equality is a given. Men and women are equal in the eyes of God.

Leaving Iran has not been so easy for everyone since the Islamic Revolution, particularly if you are not wealthy. By Iranian standards, my family was far from it. We literally stole out of our hands. Other Jews were not so fortunate ending up tortured and, in some cases killed. Some were able to go on living but on constrained circumstances. For example, one could only send one's children to a limited number of schools.

Many Muslims have their own Iranian nightmare stories. Many cannot go back. I could not go back, and I'm far from alone among Persian Jews. I can never figure out how the repeated crimes against our humanity are either ignored or seen as annoying. (Could have something to do with our not having much in the way of oil. Maybe I should carry a can around with me.)

I suppose in a way it could have been worse. I could have been born in Iraq, or Syria, or Egypt. In other countries, e.g., Syria, the situation was worse.

Rabia was probably the greatest female Sufi mystic, but there were others. A friend of mine wrote a beautiful book about them that disappeared when we painted. I'll get the title from her if you're interested.

"That is an example of compassion, to me. Along with turning the other cheek, it exemplifies that Jesus had compassion FOR THE PREPETRATOR as well as the victim."

Interesting since so many of his followers became PERPETRATORS and then forgave themselves or aided their C0-PERPETRATORS.

Deconstruction, anyone?

Susan - you make some good points. Clearly the religious institutions of the world have no claim to a monopoly on compassion, nor should they claim any moral superiority (although they often do).

Your second point about such a code lacking any enforceable power is true as well. Certainly the world would be a better place if the governments of the world started acting with compassion, and they don't need a religious code to do that.

On the other hand, a process of discovering the compassion in their own origins could be a step towards the religious institutions cleaning their own houses.

Compassion as a guiding principal certainly seems to have limited if any downside.

There are many overlapping principals among religion. There is a great little book (literally) called Oneness. It is about 3 inches by 4 inches and displays all the overlapping principals and sayings across the Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Taoism and there could be a couple of others in there.

And yes compassion is a central tenet and I think compassion is central to atheism in that it is a human trait. But staying with religion ironically oneness of all things is also a central theme.

Of course the overriding issue is “my” version is the one and only right version which is really just man’s perversion (interpretation) of a universal truth. It is our own thoughts about ourselves that keep this truth hidden in plain sight. Religion had noble goals at some point but when taken as an absolute on a notion of something that is infinite seems to be an oxymoron.

StudentoftheWord:

Sure Mrs. Jacoby

You can make the Bible say what You want as well, I can see.

"Bringing someone to justice is an act of compassion, to the one or others who may be harmed. So is having standards an act of compassion."
"Attempts to legislate morality is a half way attempt to establish standards... "
"This too is why it is compassionate to say no to things that are immoral."
"...but in showing compassion, you don’t allow me to do this thing, because it is for the greater good."

Suddenly compassion is everything! Sweet!

Compassion is:
Murder is compassionate. For it is justi(ce)fied. Even for forced sex. Brings comfort.
Having standards, (?) is compassionate. (Thank God, we are now all compassionate, since noone is without some kind of standards!)
Legislating morality. (God knows, I Know what is moral!)
Disallowing others to follow their own will, if I deem it is for "the greater good". ( I LOVE this one!)

We can justify anything, and color it how we like, to support our beliefs. Until we are willing to change.

You ended with: "... follow Jesus. Jesus was always compassionate even to those that tried to kill him. He said to forgive them."
That is an example of compassion, to me. Along with turning the other cheek, it exemplifies that Jesus had compassion FOR THE PREPETRATOR as well as the victim.
Compassion is not an action to ALTER the external reality, or the internal one, directly. It is an emotive, empathetic union with the pain or suffering of another.
It is not used to change the reality, but to be in union with what is.
Jesus' example did not show the intention to change the government, the judge, the centurion, the murderer, the prostitute directly but to ALLOW them to change of their own free will, if they willed it so. He did not seek legislation. He did not seek "justice". He did not seek to murder the murderer. He just was Jesus, non violent, compassionate, the Presence of Love.

Take that formula into your life and life by That, if you call yourself a follower of Jesus. Most christians seem to have a hard time doing that, and prefer to battle against the evil world and change it to fit their own ideals. They go off to fight the infidels. When many of them ARE the infidels, unfaithful to the Way of their Prophet.

Forgive me. I get sarchastic to a fault at times. I hate hypocrisy. I need to find compassion for it.

You ended on that note of Jesus' compassion and forgiveness. I just seconded the motion.
Peace.

Farnaz - you're right about the role of women among the Sufis, who have been uniformly persecuted over the centuries by more orthodox/non-mystical Muslims. I added a link for folks interested in this topic.

Can you give any insight into the Bahai and Zoroastrian orientation as regards gender issues? I understand from your posts that as small religious minorities, they have been persecuted in Iran, as well. This would be of real interest to me......

As you mentioned, such persecution is also the case with the abuse of Christians recently in Kerala, India.

Interestingly, St. Thomas is traditionally thought to have been the spiritual founder of Christianity there, while he had elsewhere been expunged from inclusion in the gospels by the Nicene Council - thus we have to look in the Nag Hammadi scrolls to find the gospel of Thomas, of which much has been written in recent years.

My main interest is in mystical/wisdom traditions, and there's always much more to be discovered than one person has time for. I was unaware of Muslim women serving as chaplains!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabia_Basri

Persiflage,

Add discrimination and dispossession of Jews in the Middle East. I am one of three million of them.

Most recent examples of bigoted moronistic anti-Jewish racism here expressed itself on this blog and almost everywhere else with respect to the upcoming election. It would have been hilarious were it not so much a danger to the well-being of young J people, who seem to get angry more quickly than their parents did, myself excluded from said parents.

Hi Persiflage,

Another thought about Islam and gender equality. There is a long, honorable tradition of female Sufi mystics, as you probably know. Also, Muslim women serve as chaplains.

Hi Persiflage:

Certainly Muslims both here and elsewhere in the West are often 'profiled' and become victims of mindless and nasty ethnocentric discriminations, mis-treatment and abuse. This is a complex issue so I'll leave it there.
_________________________________
I have seen it here myself, and in India. I have also seen discrimination against Jews in the US, Asia, Europe and Africa.

Discrimination against Christians in Asia, some parts of Africa.

Many Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis (e.g. Rabbi Wolpe) have "Crossanized" Judaism. Professor JD Crossan and his fellow historic Jesus exegetes have "Crossanized" Catholicism and Christianity. Someone now needs to "Crossanize" Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.

Compassion will then follow.

Farnaz - a continuation from below......

As to Buddhism - historically speaking, there are structural similarities with Catholicism. Yes, women take consecrated vows and lead the religious life as nuns, but men have always remained in positions of authority traditionally.

The Dalai Lama himself speaks to this issue, and Tibet itself has had more liberalized views of the role of women in society traditionally.

Historically, Tibet is the solitary modern example of a culture that engages in the practice of polyandry - where one woman has multiple husbands (apparently a dynamic directly related to a shortage of women).

Nevertheless, great Buddhist siddhas and spiritual role models remain almost exclusively men throughout history - from Guatama himself onward. In modern times more female practitioners and teachers can likely be found in Zen.

The same holds true of the Hindu faith - a faith that worships the Divine Mother as one form of God, but nevertheless produces great saints that are typcially noted for being men.

In my view, men seem to dominate and govern religion as they always have, with noted exceptions.

best regards, as always

Farnaz - you make many good and valid points in your detailed synopsis.

However, as a lapsed Catholic myself, it is my view that the Church continues to engender a primitive philosophy as regards prohibitions against the ordination of women, as well as the official Church stand against both abortion and even conventional birth control methods. Lord knows, these topics are covered constantly On Faith!

As you know, Jung among others has made the case that Mother Mary was ex post facto a divinized figure in the Catholic Church (although without doctrinal authority) and completed the male-dominated Trinity. In fact, she is treated on a par with Jesus among many practicing Catholics - who also continue to deny her divine status.

You may have seen the thread On Faith today concerning Catholic bishops and their unified (and somewhat histrionic) stand against the upcoming Freedom of Choice legislation.

I agree that mainstream Judaism and Protestantism are by far the most advanced among prominent religious faiths, as regards inclusion of women in the clergy......as well as other liberalized and enlightened social views in general.

You know better than most the fundamental lack of equality between men and women to be found in much of the Islamic world. Certainly the West is populated by Muslims hoping to escape such totalitarian rule, among many other reasons.

On the other hand, assimilation among those very Muslims is thwarted because of the continuing practice of traditional religious/cultural prohibitions and customs, as we've seen discussed numerous times on Eboo Patel's thread.

Certainly Muslims both here and elsewhere in the West are often 'profiled' and become victims of mindless and nasty ethnocentric discriminations, mis-treatment and abuse. This is a complex issue so I'll leave it there.

The traditional/tribal extremes of indigenously-based Islam such as honor killings and genital mutiliation (female circumcision) are well known. The case could (and has) been made that these practices are more societal and less relgiously based - this does not save Islam from it's responsibility in such matters, in my view.

to be continued.......

Hi E-Favorite

You are still around?

You are right; it is hard to buy into religious "compassion" when the religious people are all busy beating up on each other, and us innocent civilian bystanders.

Don't you think?

Hmmm, looks like one gang member still has itch issues.

Bun-Bun,

I see you have added my Mosquito metonym to your impoverished alcoholic repertoire. Or does your New Testicle itch?

Well now, I see some members of the gang of four are raising their lovely heads this evening.

Up, up my pet mosquitoes!!! Time for some feeding off the blood of the agitated!!!

And I do believe some Wiccan witch put a hex on my $500 spell for "liberating the liberal" or was that the spell for "Crossanizing the Dark Age World of Judaism and Christianity"??

"Observer12- it's kind of obvious he has severe issues. I think he and spidey are actually sleeping together"

Taken together with alcoholism, self-loathing homosexuality could explain Bun-Bun's New Testicle obsession.

Observer12- it's kind of obvious he has severe issues. I think he and spidey are actually sleeping together.

Farnaz:

"Stop drinking, and get the Muffinist equivalent of a life."

So that's the problem. "Bun-Bun's" an alcoholic.
Makes sense, explains everything. How did you find out? Did he say so?

Observer12

Bun-Bun:

To repeat, or paraphrase: You are an idiot. Stop drinking, and get the Muffinist equivalent of a life.

Correct the flaws and errors in the major religions and then and only then will said members show compassion toward their fellow members of humankind:

To reiterate is to educate so one more time, a Synopsis of the Flaws and Errors of the Major Religions:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

Current crisis:

Realization that the Jews are not god's not chosen people.
www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/Works_Cited

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

Persiflage,

A couple of additional thoughts on gender equality and religion.

There are homosexual Protestant ministers and homosexual rabbis. Occasionally, we go to a synagogue, and the synagogue we go to has a gay rabbi.

We like her because she is brilliant. Since I am not gay neither my husband nor I am attracted to her, we see no problem in her her sexuality.

I should add that neither Protestantism nor Judaism uniformly accepts homosexuality. Both religions have quite a ways to go, but they have made progress.

As for abortion, Judaism requires it if the mother's life is in danger. That is, if the mother's life or health is endangered, an abortion must be performed, end of discussion. There are other circumstances, as well, under which an abortion would be considered justified.

Persiflage,

"Cerrtainly Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism are far from perfect in matters of gender equality -"

Pardon me. I do not know enough about Hindu clerical matters to address this point. Buddhism, like Catholicism, offers women the option of becoming nuns. Most branches of Protestantism provides for the ordination of female ministers. It seems to me that of the major religions, Catholicism, and, possibly, Islam, have grown the least with respect to gender equality, albeit perhaps with respect to clerical positions Islam has gone a bit further than Catholicism.

Catholic nuns cannot be priests because Jesus Christ was a man. This I have heard at interfaith gatherings again and again, uttered not only by lay persons but by priests. An analysis of this logic I will forgo, but will say that some nuns in the audiences visibly cringed.

All branches of Judaism except for the orthodox regularly ordain rabbis. The orthodox now have a position quite similar to that of rabbi for women, except that they cannot head a congregation. However, Orthodox Jewish women, including Chasidim can if they wish also attend college, graduate school, law school, medical school, etc., and quite a number do. Needless to say, they are encouraged to study Talmud, as well.

Personally, I'm no fan of competitive religion, but accuracy must be served.

Cheers!
Farnaz

Susan - You took the words right out of my mouth -- well at least a few of them, mainly at the beginning and including the part of the UN declaration.

I'm not exactly sure what Karen Armstrong is up to, but I'm sure you don't need religion to be compassionate.

E favorite

Susan Jacoby:

Part I
Would that you might consider the tragedy of wasted minds, in this case your own.

"Read Genesis 34:27-29 for an account of what the marauding Hebrews did to the alien tribe of a man who wanted to marry their sister. ... Later on, trans-tribal religions like Christianity [christianity trans-tribal?]graciously extended compassion to those willing to convert to the Christian religion."

Part I continued

The utter ignorance and bigotry in this your personal Catholic take on things is truly beyond my ability to reply in the short time I have to do so. First, you are referring to an event that in all likelihood never occurred and that has a significance way beyond the Christian literalism that you attach to it.

The "compassion" you claim was ushered in by Christianity for all who would convert is, of course, ironic, but is also untrue. The Christians have always been tribalistic, have wedded their religious beliefs to national status and thus given us the wars of the last twelve hundred years. I'm not about to give you a lesson in the formation of nation states and nation state identity. Time is money, and you can take a course.

Part II

I will say that the Christians introduced the concept of Pure blood, limpe pura, limpe sangre, which authorized their slaughter of hundreds of millions of AmerIndians, Africans, Jews who converted, Muslims, and Hindus.,

'Twas the compassionate Christians, with their Compassionate bloody New (sic) testament that introduced to the African continent and to Asia their Compassionate custom of cutting off the hands of indigenous peoples and tying them around their necks. The Compassionati were also known in Asia for cutting off people's thumbs.

Forever and ever, the Compassionati's New (sic) Testament, from which Adolf Hitler, a baptized Catholic cribbed with abandon, the Compassionati have been obseessed with us. Fifteen hundred Franciscans (see my earlier posts on this blob) including priests slaughtered Jews, Serbs, and Roma during the Holocaust in ways that even those trying to get the loot back from the Compassionate Vatican have difficulty speaking of.

It seems that the Compassionate Franciscans cut to ribbons living people using scissors, just one among many of their passionate Compassionate Catholic gestures.

Your New (sic) Testament represents the inaugural racism of the West. Armed with it, ordinary church-going people slaughtered Jews during the First Crusade, deported Jews, killed Jews. The materialist proto-racism in the NT has been the subject of numerous Catholics and Protestants, most recently and encouragingly twelve Christian Orthodox clergy, who are calling for reform, revision, editing, etc.

Rather late in the day, I'm afraid, and in all events, it won't happen. Meanwhile wherever the Compassionate Christians go, anti-semitism goes with them. The most recent example is Korea, Christianized in the last twenty years, virulently and religiously racist with respect to Jews.

Any document that posits a god so murderous that he would send his only begotten son to earth to be tortured to death is a god that knew not Joseph and could only give rise to evil.

The notion that one who "believes in" a man god will be saved no matter what he has done in the past has proven a license for genocide.

Your fictitious Pharisees, Sanhedrin that could not have taken place, cannibalistic seder has been projected onto us.

Kindly do not tell me that you are not a Catholic, that you are an atheist, etc. Your essay shows otherwise and this is not the first time. This is not to say that all Catholics are as benighted as you are. Not the case, as I indicate above.

Elitism is always a sign of ignorance, always ironic, in your case extraordinarily so. That you should make your living writing books on the benighted state of the rest of us is surely good for a booklenght satire.

Sure Mrs. Jacoby

You can make the Bible say what you want when taken out of context. Let’s read the next few verses.

Gen 34:30 And Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, Ye have troubled me to make me to stink among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites: and I [being] few in number, they shall gather themselves together against me, and slay me; and I shall be destroyed, I and my house. 31 And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot? KJV

Jacob did not agree with how his son’s defended their sister’s honor; he said they made him stink. The man did rape her and deserved to be brought to justice.

The beauty of the Bible is that it shows us time and time again that we are not perfect, but should look to the instruction of the perfect One. Even the best Prophets did not demonstrate compassion as God desired for them. Let’s not lose sight of the tragedy of this girls rape, where was the compassion for her? Bringing someone to justice is an act of compassion, to the one or others who may be harmed. So is having standards an act of compassion.

With out Standards we create an environment that is immoral. Attempts to legislate morality is a half way attempt to establish standards however this is only as good as the one in office.

This too is why it is compassionate to say no to things that are immoral. Just because I or a group of people want to do or act a certain way does not mean that we should expect everyone to be ok with it, like homosexuality. I may want to do something that harms my body and the people around me but in showing compassion, you don’t allow me to do this thing, because it is for the greater good.

This all alludes to the need for us as a people to adhere to the higher laws then that of mankind. The laws of God. This is what our forefathers wrote about and wanted us as a nation to abide by. Not to force you to be Christian but to see the need to abide by a law greater then our own desires. You and I will look after our self; God looks after everyone that is compassion!

You are correct that religious groups need to clean up their own houses and be more compassionate but what they teach is the truth. This is why you don’t follow a person or church or group, but rather follow Jesus. Jesus was always compassionate even to those that tried to kill him. He said to forgive them.

Be a student of the WORD not of religion or denomination.

Bun-Bun,

You deluded antedeluvian Muffinist. Find one, just one synagogue, Moron, and I do mean Moron, where you will find this:

"We go into the Jewish synagogue and find myths and more calls to violence via the trumpets of Jericho."

Bun-Bun, You Psychotic pre-and-ahistoric jerk, give me one synagogue, one rabbi, one date and time.

Until then, get the Muffinist equivalent of a god damned life.

The very first thing that several of the world's major religions needs to do is to recognize complete and total equality among and between all people, and particularly between genders - not to mention getting along with each other in a much bigger way. Human rights implies equal rights, does it not?

This recognition then needs to be reflected in the theology and hierarchical/clerical/doctrinal structure of the various faiths - Catholicism, Protestant Fundamentalism, and Islam are way behind, and have much gender reformation ahead in this regard.

The likelihood of women being on perfectly equal footing with men among these three examples is small to none, in the immediate future.

Certainly Hinduism, Buddhism and Judaism are far from perfect in matters of gender equality - it seems to me that in order for honestly transparent religious declarations of universal compassion to carry any weight, the realization of universal equanimity as reflected in the historical record, would be a prerequisite at the very least. As Susan points out, this is not the case.

I like Susan's secular example of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights via the United Nations charter - but as she points out, it's often ignored unless it suits politicized and partisan purposes.

There's strife aplenty between religions both globally and locally wherever we look - a pact of universal compassion in hopes of quelling constant fractiousness between religions, cultures, tribes & other sub-cultural factions is putting the cart before the horse - and would be an empty gesture at best.

A few more thoughts regarding this article.
You bring up a number of examples of how religions, cultures and tribal groups, historically as well as currently, act inhumanely and intolerantly. This is a core of the problem itself, rooted in ethno-centric and religious totalitarianism. The very reason for finding common ground on religious fundamentals.
You cited the powerful effect of MLK and LBJ in forwarding humanely centered legislation through from dreams to inception in law. This was not possible without a coalition of disparate forces that came together with common purpose to address common wrongs and make them right. Based in the need to assure compassionate and humane laws to support the disenfranchised, historic enemies came together for a common good. It was possible because there is a "common good" inside all of us. And we are in no small part the product of our religious and cultural conditioning.

"What I particularly dislike about Armstrong's suggestion is that it is based on the premise that compassion is central to all religions. No, it is not. Most religions were founded on the limitation of compassion to one's own tribal group."

This does not negate Armstrong's suggestion of the commonality or centrality of compassion in all religions. Indeed I believe that it is. It is also, as you point out, common that the compassion is hoarded to it's own people. Peoples are not historically compassionate to "outsiders". This is the common ground that must be addressed and changed for the cultural diversity of this planet to survive intact, and to live on peacefully.
The commonality of compassion is an immeasurable tool of good that can help us realize that "utopian" end.

@DanielintheLionsDen:

I don't know what to say to your objection, when the very title of Susan's article includes the words "enforceable law". If you don't see the link Susan makes between legislation and compassion, I'm not sure how to make it more obvious.

As for tax policy, Susan approvingly mentions Article 24 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which enumerates a number of material rights, e.g., housing, clothing, food. How will these be provisioned to some if not by the taxation of others? Direct confiscation, perhaps?

Perhaps you would benefit from a more careful reading of Susan's article.

Globalone

You said that my post was absurd. But I do not know what your are talking about. You did not cite any particular thing that you did not like.

Let me just put it this way: actions speak louder than words.

The Southern Baptist Church is extremely homophobic, is it not? Are you saying that they have changed that policy? If so, please let us hear in plain English how Baptists love gay people. And please, "love the sinner hate the sin" is a tricky qualification, a cold and frigid expression of love, and is just plain and simply, not good enough.

Friend,

You're right there but you need to take that final step. The Enlightenment. The myth of Progress. None of these things have any answer for Evil. Not even President Obama, who promises to take us all on a grand march towards utopia. Only one person has answered the call of death.

Daniel,

Your post is absurd. You condemn a large majority of people for the acts and feelings of a select few. Reminds me of some guy named Bill Maher. Except that his intention is to be funny and entertaining while you are actually being serious. Sad, really.

If you live in the DC area, I more than welcome you to stop by my church (approx 2,000 members), Columbia Baptist Church, in Falls Church VA and let me know how many members you speak to that are as you apparently assume them to be.

For Whizler

Just curious, but I do not understand how any of your comments relate to anything that Susan said in her essay.

There was no mention of tax policy, what so ever.

There was no mention of legislating compassion.

I think Susan said something about getting people to stop killing each other. That is hardly seeking to legislate compassion.

Just curious.

A couple of things. One is that we seem to jump quickly from Karen Armstrongs call for reaffirmation of the core virtue of compassion in religious doctrine to legal enforcement of compassion. I do not get the jump. Her Charter for Compassion is an embryonic, (pardon the inference, right to lifers), attempt to encourage dialogue and reflection on the common ground we may share in compassion. In that it deserves attention and encouragement. But I do not think it would need at this phase argument against it because it is 'unenforceable'. We do not yet know that common ground could be found around compassion. Give it a try. If common ground were found, what then? It would be a platform to move further toward elusive unity. What a great idea! and why not? Support it, don't abort it! :-) :-)
Dreamers dream it. Even the mushy dreams. Lawyers come in then and legislate the landscape. Nothing happens until you start to build on the dream.

Susan, I normally agree with your articles here, but this one doesn't reflect your typically clear thinking.

Do you really believe that compassion can be legislated? When the government takes, say, 20% of your income to provide the things listed in Article 24, does that make you a compassionate person? Are you more compassionate when it takes 30%? 50%?

It seems that real compassion comes from one's free choice, not imposed government fiat.

The major obstacles to compassion amongst the religions:

We go into the Muslim mosque and find a call to violence against infidels and oppression to women.

We go into the Jewish synagogue and find myths and more calls to violence via the trumpets of Jericho.

We go into the Catholic/Christian church and find blood and body and pretty, wingie thingies but no Virgin Mary and a shout of being the only way to Heaven.

We go into Hindu temples and find cows and the lower class/caste cleaning up the dung.

We go into a Buddhist temple and find tributes to an obese and not so obese figurines and then there is that talk about reincarnation into one of ten realms of being.

Solution:

Eliminate the flaws and errors in the historical foundations of the major religions.

"Pink slip" all the bishops, priests, rabbis, monks and imams/clerics who spread the hate and false theologies.

Dear Susan

What an excellent article. I agree with everything that you have said, but I would not have thought to say any of it. I am not at all familiar with the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, but I will definitely look it up.

The fact is, that compassion is a human trait. Some people have alot of it, some have a little, some don't have much. It is not a religeous trait nor a trait of religeous people.

Christianity is centered around the words "love' and "compassion." Yet whole great swaths of Christianity are cold and frigid towards the well-being of humanity, and towards individual human beings. Whole swaths of Christianity condemn "sinners" (usually having to do with sexuality, especially homo-sexuality) and seem to take pleasure in the imagery of God's punishment of "other" people, and in the suffering of sinners in the "Lake of Fire."

In fact, compassion is not a trait of religeous people; among the religeous, you are more likely to find people who are weirdly obsessed with severe punishment that is due other people.

I grudgingly agree with you about the reality of enforcement in such a document. I didn't think about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but just that "Do unto others, as you would want them to do to you" has been around for a long time in many religions and almost no one follows that creed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=747U-5FclqM

The thought that keeps returning is that no one will be able to save the world, that we can only save ourselves by our actions, and we are doomed to our animalistic tribalism. This puts humanity's future survival in some doubt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJ3Tjj40P8