An institution accustomed to kid gloves

YEAL, By saying "Please only reliable sources!!" if you are looking for one with Eurocentric lens, I don't have that. I don't wear one either.

YEAL,

This site is very objective http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Conversion.htm , it refers to this book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/8172232705/qid=942719351/sr=1-5/002-9015698-7769836

I have heard of Arun Shourie, India's best known journalist with impeccable credentials.

"That is true too but at 145,000,000,000 USD per 1989 figures nothing beats the Vatican in size and scope."

And the references to support this figure are?? Please only reliable sources!!

YEAL, you are going on some tangent. I was talking about a religious organization using money to subvert civilizations, countries and people across the world to harvest souls or with such ideology as sole focus.

Here is one example that I was reading a few minutes ago.

http://deshgujarat.com/2010/04/11/germany-sends-rs9710169000-donation-to-india-annually/

"That is true too but at 145,000,000,000 USD per 1989 figures nothing beats the Vatican in size and scope."

And the references to support this figure are?? Please only reliable sources!!

And as noted previously:

The assets of Israeli banks are posted at:
http://duns100.dundb.co.il/ts.cgi?tsscript=/2009e/e30a4

The top two banks in Israel have over $600 billion in assets.

And don't forget the following:

Tax Exempt & NonProfit Organization
Information Center

List of Counties with at least 400 Organizations

County Number of Organizations Total Income Total Assets

Los Angeles County CA 46,902 $98,809,686,018 $212,802,552,870

Cook County IL 31,520 $110,085,748,138 $114,778,413,424

New York County NY 25,124 $188,816,031,921 $246,872,519,680

Harris County TX 18,055 $42,332,652,889 $53,051,840,529

District of Columbia County DC 17,665 $77,002,580,360 $68,520,218,111

Then there is this for the USA Federal Government:

Estimated receipts for fiscal year 2010 are $2.381 trillion, an estimated decrease of 11% from 2009.

$1.061 trillion – Individual income taxes
$940 billion – Social Security and other payroll tax
$222 billion – Corporation income taxes
$77 billion – Excise taxes
$23 billion – Customs duties
$20 billion – Estate and gift taxes
$22 billion – Deposits of earnings
$16 billion – Other

@ EDBYRONADAMS As I said earlier I won't try to convince the Christists or the Eurocentrists. They have a long way go in their evolution towards dharma. Anything goes in their mindest to rape and pillage other civilizations

'The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.' – Friedrich Nietzsche

FUTURALOGIC,

Funny stuff. "The debbil made me do it." is always a lame excuse. The Hindus created the caste system and the maltreatment of widows all by their lonesome. Blaming it on the Brits is just another escape from the self examination necessary for healthy change.

@EDBY

Here's the link that captures the topics in detail, read both and you will be able to connect the dots.

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Caste_System.htm
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Conversion.htm

On November 6, 1999 Pope John Paul II in his sermon at the Sacred Heart Cathedral of New Delhi, openly stated, "Just as in the first millennium the Cross was planted on the soil of Europe, and in the second on that of the Americas and Africa, we can pray that in the third Christian millennium, a great harvest of faith will be reaped in this vast and vital continent [Asia]"

Christians have always portrayed non-Christian civilizations as backwards, underdeveloped, superstitious, and barbaric. What really underlies all of their criticism is that these cultures do not accept Jesus, the Bible and their western way of life. This is what, in the Christians’ opinion, deems these cultures as needing their help, when in fact the their fervor to destroy any theistic conception other than Christianity or any temple other than a church shows that they are really the ones who are showing the qualities of barbarians.

Today, many are uninformed and believe that mission excesses only took place in prior times and today's preaching works are a 'good thing.' But as long as the basic premises and theology that underly all the abuses that took place in the past are not corrected, the result of mission activities will remain the same: Genocide and destruction of all that lies in its way, replacing it with the 'superior religion and culture' that most missionaries believe they are delivering.

In retrospect, these various ethnic cultures were far better off before the introduction of Christianity, as it had nothing better to offer them. In reality, these cultures were decimated, their histories were erased, their cultural traditions eradicated, their former religions destroyed and they were left more unhappy than before the arrival of Christianity.

There have been many revisions in the teachings of Jesus Christ since it first took hold some 2,000 years ago. But until the xenophobic and iconoclastic teachings of the Bible are corrected, mission activity will yield the same catastrophic results. As taught in the Bible, 'we can know a tree by its fruit,' these evangelists need to adopt a more pluralistic theology, recognizing the divinity in other religions and the contributions of other cultures and further recognize that theirs is not the only path to salvation. Suffice it to say, until these things have been corrected, that to label such endeavors for Christ as good works or pious activityis wrong.

Otherwise, in this modern age, those deemed with good intelligence, who are advanced in philosophy and science, have no other choice than to condemn these preaching activities worldwide, which seek to destroy ethnic cultures. Mission activities need to be monitored and the conversion agenda needs to be reconsidered. The Pope Must Preach Real Harmony, Not Religious Intolerance.

"Religous conversion is violence and it breeds violence, In converting you are also converting the nonviolent to violent" ~ Swami Dayananda Saraswathi

Why are monotheistic traditions (Christianity and Islam) unable to live in peace in pluralist societies?

Mahatma Gandhi wrote: "Only the other day a missionary descended on a famine area with money in his pocket, distributed it among the famine stricken, converted them to his fold, took charge of their temple, and demolished it. This is outrageous." (quoted in Harijan: November 5, 1937).

@EDBYRONADAMS

If you want to believe in tools of the church that have been painting with prejudiced brush of all native civilizations for 2000 years then I won't convince you. Or is it the Euro-centric lens?

Here's a good review of WATER. Feel free to read.
http://satyameva-jayate.org/2007/03/16/the-last-word-on-water/

Ah, the well known caste system - a construct of western mind - now utilized by the church to harvest the souls. The Church and the west are more interested in it than Indians are.

Caste as British Creation
http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/h_es/h_es_hobso_caste_frameset.htm

Caste as British Mischief
http://indianrealist.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/1875/

Arise, awake, don't be fooled by Eurocentric and Church lens

@YEAL9

"And there are others who have billions to twist their agendas to their favor"

That is true too but at 145,000,000,000 USD per 1989 figures nothing beats the Vatican in size and scope, it is by far the largest franchise in the world built on superstition - "jesus is the only god, if you don't accept him you are condmned to hell and such crap" - with largest following in the world.

FUTURALOGIC,
"Good you used the word DEPICTED. so it's far from truth. That's what happens when Church portrays India and Hindus."

It is strange that you find the filmmaker Deepa Mehta is a tool of the church. Are you saying that widows are not sequestered by Hinduism and forced to live a catch as catch can existence? It is strange that an Indian filmmaker would trouble herself with a story made of whole cloth.

As for Hinduism, the caste system itself is a form of abuse and the real abuses such a disgusting hierarchy creates in real life is inevitable.

"Ultimately Churches have billions of $$$ to twist truth to prolong their agenda of world domination by harvesting souls for "only son of god" however superstitious it may be."

And there are others who have billions to twist their agendas to their favor:

To wit:

The largest of the lobbyists:(note the large sums of money being spent by health "profiteers" on lobbying )

Lobbying Client Total 1998-2009

US Chamber of Commerce $606,758,180
American Medical Assn $220,832,500
General Electric $196,410,000
AARP $175,702,064
American Hospital Assn $174,890,431
Pharmaceutical Rsrch & Mfrs of America $173,403,920
AT&T Inc $150,471,757
Northrop Grumman $143,005,253
Exxon Mobil $138,886,942
National Assn of Realtors $138,417,380
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $136,317,077
Business Roundtable $134,030,000
Edison Electric Institute $133,995,999
Verizon Communications $132,534,841
Lockheed Martin $122,340,423
Boeing Co $121,528,310
General Motors $106,914,483
Southern Co $104,620,694
Freddie Mac $96,194,048
Altria Group $93,650,000

Would the move to end tax exemptions for any group generate the added taxes/contributions needed to pay for universal health care??

The money spent by the health-"profiteers" on lobbying should be spent on health insurance for those who cannot presently afford it.

i'm not sure it does any good to complain about people actually doing nothing but finally telling the truth in public. To call this simple concept an attack on the church is to further dishonor an already dishonored institution. The problems comes not from other people words but the unrepentant actions of the the church that actually harmed human beings then thought they could cover up what they did and deny actual justice for the victims..... how far from spiritual truth can a group of seemingly well meaning people be...or go .. we live in a new era and God himself has asserted himself so the foolishness of the ... pretentious fools will no longer be honored as holy and right in anyones eyes.. except perhaps the Vatican... the truth would set a lot of people free.. maybe thats the problem they want obedient mindless slaves or why would they reject thier own flock now that..they see the light. i had a freind named Pam who had some unresolved guilt from dealings with a priest (his instigation then blamed her ) and she poured gasoline on herself and set herself on fire... In real life she was a far better human being than the pope I would imagine .....

@EDBYRONADAMS ,

"It depicted that sexual abuse clearly"

Good you used the word DEPICTED. so it's far from truth. That's what happens when Church portrays India and Hindus. That's why we have the famous saying

"The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil and ugly.' – Friedrich Nietzsche

If you are prejudiced against Hindus and other non-believers of someone called Jesus then you may as well enjoy movies made by Christians like "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom" or read books written Christian authors like Wendy. She has been exposed here by Mr. Shukla

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/aseem_shukla/2010/03/whose_history_is_it_anyways.html

Ultimately Churches have billions of $$$ to twist truth to prolong their agenda of world domination by harvesting souls for "only son of god" however superstitious it may be.

"With evangelical Christianity comes Sexual abuse and corruption in India's Churches"

Is that as opposed to the sexual abuse from the RCC or that in Hinduism. I saw the film Water. It depicted that sexual abuse clearly.

The USA contributes USD 145 Billion every year to fund Christian Missionaries across the world. Churches across the world spend USD 1.1 Billion towards research aimed at achieving religious conversions. This is for propaganda material in 300 languages about 180 topics. Books and articles are printed in 500 languages. They total 175000. Every conversion costs USD 3300. It does not mean that this amount reaches the Convert. It is the expense incurred in activities related to administration, planning and implementation of the conversion programme. In 1500 A.D, there were 30 Lac active Christian Missionaries. Their number stands at 64.8 Crore today. 54% of these people are non-Whites. The strategy is to train non-Whites, provide them with funds and involve them in religious conversions. This is similar to the time when the British employed Indians as Soldiers to rule India!

With evangelical Christianity comes Sexual abuse and corruption in India's Churches
http://myexperimentsagainstprejudice.blogspot.com/2009/02/church-sex-and-scandals.html

"Brad Hirschfield: When Priests And Rabbis Commit Sexual Abuse
Mar 29, 2010 ......

www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi.../when-priests-and-rabbis-c_b_516386.html

“The words used by Pope Benedict and others in responding to the Church's ever-deepening sexual abuse crises reflect a sickness that is not unique to the Catholic community. In fact, that sickness creeps into all religious communities of which I know, and leaves a trail of victims in its wake every time. I refer to the way in which religious leaders and the communities which they lead wear the mantle of victimhood to cover their naked moral failings.
"

Absolutely spot on take on this matter. The fact is that an absolute hierarchy made up of bachelors is a perfect Petri dish for this type of abuse and cover up and the media reluctance to look at the Church in a normal way provided the incubator.

While we are examining the ranks of the prelates for miscreants, let's look at the ranks of reporters to find those who were too cowardly to move forward when these allegations landed on their lap as well.

YOU ARE INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN A NEW BLOG…

Just posted:

VATICAN CONFIRMS REPORTS OF SEXUAL ABUSE AND RAPE OF NUNS BY PRIESTS IN 23 COUNTRIES

http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

“The only way to cure the cancer of catholicism, stop the pedophilia, and end the rape of nuns by priests is to begin each ceremony of ordination to the deaconate with castration. Let any priest who wants to be celibate make a gift of his balls to jesus.

There is no heaven of glory bright, and no hell where sinners roast. Here and now is our day of torment! Here and now is our day of joy! Here and now is our opportunity! Choose ye this day, this hour, for no redeemer liveth!

The only way to cure the cancer of catholicism, and stop the pedophilia, is to begin each ceremony of ordination to the deaconate with castration. Let any priest who wants to be celibate make a gift of his balls to jesus.

YOU ARE INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN A NEW BLOG…

…that tackles Church abuse, separation of Church and State, Atheism, Buddhism, Existentialism….

http://theexistentialatheist.blogspot.com/

MASS LAWSUITS ATAINST THE POPE, by Farnaz Mansouri
CONCEPTS + LOGIC = KNOWLEDGE, by Blacksun
MAN AND REASON, by Randall Duncan
RATZINGER’S VATICAN: SEX, LIES AND SECRETS, by Emily Helm.
THE NEW BUDDHIST ATHEISM, by Mark Vernon

It's interesting that the Vatican doesn't seem to grasp the source of the popular rage against the Church. People are outraged that the Church has always claimed to have moral authority as a special, spiritual institution, but when it came to the crunch it acted like any corporation. They didn't act as though they had faith that God would support the Church through the tough time when a priest was revealed as a sexual predator. Instead they hushed up these crimes over and over again, like a manufacturer trying to hide a defect in a automobile or crib. They don't even seem worried that their behavior has driven thousands out of the Church. Given their professed beliefs they should be agonizing because the result of these institutional cover-ups is the condemnation of many of these lost thousands to hell.

Their distinctly unspiritual behavior is what has undermined their moral authority--not the media.

On Faith: Is the media biased against the Catholic Church?
For at least the last half-century, Catholic Priests have been sexually assaulting and raping children. For at least a half-century the Catholic Church has been systematically attempting to cover it up and shield those responsible for these crimes from the law. Now after all this time people are speaking out in record numbers and the Vatican’s response is to blame the victims, blame the media, and blame the devil.

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m4d7-On-Faith-Is-the-media-biased-against-the-Catholic-Church

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.