Faith not a reliable 'eco-friend'

To say that “’Religious people’ disagree about everything” is a hyperbolic accusation that could just as easily (if not more easily) be leveled at secular humanism and the “pagan” faiths. It is simply a purposeful overstatement designed to discredit Christianity and further attempt to exclude its ideology from the public debate.

To state that there is “plenty of justification in the Bible for raping the earth” is an oft-offered allegation that is simply not credible. Interestingly, there are no actual examples offered to support this charge, though we are assured that there are “plenty” of them.

To the contrary, Scripture is filled with exhortations to good stewardship of the manifold blessings of God. For instance, the nation of Israel was commanded by God to give the soil of Canaan “rest” every seventh year by not planting crops (Lev. 25:1-4), thus allowing the ground to recover its displaced nutrients. Such good stewardship of the earth was to receive the direct blessing of God in the form of a bountiful harvest every sixth year which would be sufficient to sustain the families of Israel from the sixth through the eighth year (Lev. 25:20-23).

Any “readers of the book” who have “acted on that license (for raping the earth) for millennia” are acting on a “license” that simply does not exist in the Bible. “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof” (Ps. 24:1) is a truth we would all do well to be reminded of. Our use of its resources should be such as conscientiously acknowledges the goodness and glory of its Creator.

The “patently” obvious “facts” remain: The twentieth and early twenty-first centuries, dominated by the worldview and practices of secular humanism (the chosen “faith” of Mr. Flynn), have possibly witnessed more “rape” and pillaging of humanity, the earth, and its resources than the previous nineteen centuries combined.

Flynn is patently correct - look at the facts.

"Religious people" disagree about everything, and there is plenty of justification in the Bible for raping the earth. And readers of the book have acted on that license for millenia.

The best advocates for having respect for the earth have been more pagan than anything else. In any case, they have gotten little "moral" support from any of the monotheistic, dominion-loving faiths.

From Mr. Flynn’s derisive title (Faith Not a Reliable ‘Eco-Friend’) to his closing paragraph where he equates scripture and revelation with legend, it is obvious that his intention is to marginalize anything that people of “faith” may contribute in response to these questions. To even bring people of “faith” into the arena of discussion on this topic is, in Mr. Flynn’s view, an “exercise in irrelevance.”

Ok. So he skeptical of Christianity because Christians have “faith” in a God that he doesn’t believe exists. Fair enough.

However, it appears that Mr. Flynn, the Executive Director of the Council for Secular “Humanism,” is himself a man of “faith.” This is quite evident in his closing sentence, where he concludes that “the environment’s best hope may lay (lie) in…us…” It is rather apparent that his “faith” lies in humanity itself.

I would submit that the twentieth century, largely influenced by secular humanism, is rife with “intersubjectively verifiable” evidence that mankind is only capable of making a royal mess of God’s good creation.

Tom Flynn should clean up his English grammar by learning the difference between "lie" and "lay." This may seem silly, but I can't do anything about the pollution of the oceans and I am glad to be able to take a swipe at something that needs cleaning up.

Thomas Baum

I do not share most of your thoughts about God, but if such exists It must be much like you describe. Otherwise, It would not be God but a demon.

Signing off for now.

Respectfully

test

cecil4

You wrote, "Thank you for responding in a kind way to my comments. You made me happy because yours is the first response to any post I have sent. Being ignored is no fun."

I know the feeling and I thank you also.

You then wrote, "You speak of experiences I have not had and cannot relate to. They are apparently very real for you, but unfortunately they are not transmittable to others. We cannot KNOW what you know until we have the experience you have had."

How true. I can relate to what you are saying because there is a time before I had these "experiences" and others and to say the least, they came as quite a shock.

God knew that I needed to "know" something before I could even attempt to do the "job" God chose for me.

There are some things that I "know" and there are others that I believe and I try to be specific when speaking or writing on here or elsewhere. I do not "know" a lot but I do "know" some, also I "look" at the "big picture" rather than the details, for that matter I do not "know" the details but I do not need to "know" the details.

Then you wrote, "It worries me a bit that you believe (know) God choose you to speak. That is a very serious and as you know from history, a potentially dangerous assignment."

I know and I also take the "job" God gave to me very seriously. I sometimes refer to it as "my job" but I actually look at it as "Our job", God's and mine, because I "know" that I cannot do it but that it will have to be God and me doing it.

Then, "Speak softly and kindly."

I try to speak as clearly, directly and as simply as I can, how people may take it, this is out of my control.

The message is simple: God wins, satan loses, a tie is completely and utterly unacceptable.

God's Plan is for ALL, ultimately, to be with Him in His Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

The new heavens and the new earth will arrive with the dawning of the seventh day, we are presently in the sixth day and "mankind" has been for who knows how long but the night of the sixth day will precede the dawning of the seventh day.

You then wrote, "The admonition "be ready" is worthy of some thought and discussion."

This "be ready" could refer to the "night of the sixth day" or it could refer to our "physical death", I have no idea when the night of the sixth day will arrive but for some it will be before their physical death.

As I have said, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

Jesus said, "Proclaim the Gospel", Gospel means "Good News", it would be horrific news if it were not ultimately for ALL.

Hope to hear from you.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Thomas Baum

Thank you for responding in a kind way to my comments. You made me happy because yours is the first response to any post I have sent. Being ignored is no fun.

You speak of experiences I have not had and cannot relate to. They are apparently very real for you, but unfortunately they are not transmittable to others. We cannot KNOW what you know until we have the experience you have had.

It worries me a bit that you believe (know) God choose you to speak. That is a very serious and as you know from history, a potentially dangerous assignment. Speak softly and kindly.

The admonition "be ready" is worthy of some thought and discussion.

Make this a good day for self and others.

Tho

cecil4

You wrote, "However, you in some cases you speak with undeserved authority about things of which humans know nothing , i.e., "God is" and "God's plan..""

I agree with the "undeserved authority" thing and as I have mentioned, it was God Who chose me to speak, it was not I who chose to speak.

I have also mentioned many times that I have met God, Who Is a Being of Pure Love and Is a Trinity, that is why I speak of knowing that God Is.

As I have also said before, I did not "know" that God Is until God revealed Himself to me but I did believe that God Is.

By the way, even tho God-Incarnate was a Male, God is neither a Male, a Female nor an It but is a Being of Pure Love as I have already mentioned, I just use the male pronoun because pronouns come in handy at times.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Tom Flynn

Yours is a good post. Several ideas worth thinking about.

Thomas Baum

Your comments/criticisms are for the most part thoughtful and well taken. However, you in some cases you speak with undeserved authority about things of which humans know nothing , i.e., "God is" and "God's plan.."

Tom Flynn

You wrote, "The most dangerous three words in Genesis may be "subdue the Earth.""

In and of themselves, these three words should not be "most dangerous" because they don't even come close.

Actually it is the "interpretation" of these three words that seem to be causing you concern.

Seeing as you and many others, many who identify themself as Christian and otherwise, do not see the "simple message" of the bible, I can see how you and others can worry about things over which they have no control.

God's Plan Will Come To Fruition.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

The BP oil spill has dominated the news lately as it should. While this spill could have been avoided by taking more safety precautions, it wasn’t. This was not some random accident that couldn’t have been prevented. Pat Robertson isn’t claiming that God hates the Gulf Coast. Where does religion stand in relation to the environment?

Obviously whenever we talk about religion in a general way, we have to realize that there are many religions and many variations within each religion. Christianity for example is split on the issue of environmental morality. On the one side, you have those Christians advocating the Biblical principle of “good stewardship of the Earth” and on the other side you have those Christians who advocate the Biblical principle that God gave man “dominion over the Earth” to “use and subdue it.”

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://bit.ly/93g2Wg

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.

Tom Flynn

You wrote, "Unfortunately, there's no way for men and women of good will to agree whether God exists, much less what God wants."

Actually, it doesn't matter if "men and women of good will" agree that "God exists", God Is, whether anyone agrees or not and when God-Incarnate was here He said, "Love one another as I have loved you", it is the putting of that statement into everyday life that is what some of both "believers and non-believers" don't do or believe.

You also wrote, "Why not give greater credence to those ways of knowing that are intersubjectively verifiable -- on which men and women at least theoretically can come to agree?"

Mighty fancy term, "intersubjectively verifiable" and if you or anyone else thinks that they can get "all men and women to at least theoretically agree" to anything much less that which is "intersubjectively verifiable", who are you trying to kid?

The best one or a group can do is the best they can do but that doesn't mean there will not be others "fighting" them all the way, does it?

You then wrote, "The environment's best hope may lay in most of us deciding that it's too important to leave it up to faith."

Just "who" or "what" do you suggest to "leave it up to"?

Could it be, "the ones that could care less about anything except money and power", the ones that supposedly care about everything about the environment except for people", "the ones that basically worship themselves and their fancy gadgets with not enough thought given to potential difficulties with their fancy gadgets", "others"?

By the way, exactly what do you mean by "to leave it up to faith"?

Is this faith in something greater than ourself or faith in ourself to fix up all that we have broken?

Pretty nice joint God made, we seem intent on making a "cesspool" out of it, don't we?

Ever thought about: In the past we moved on, some even want to leave the planet, to go where, I do not know.

All of the money, power, fancy toys, whatever, does no one no good if there is not food and water, does it?

God knew we would wreck the place, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.