Christ without Christianity; religion without spirit

(Not to be indelicate, but sooner or later, causality's gonna break down on you, and if ou don't learn some moderattion beforehand, whatever garbage you were ignoring beforehand is going to seem like 'Gospel' to you, and I sh-ahem you not, dig?

I don't think you want to, what was your word? 'Vanquish'
'Shamanism?' That what you don't understand, but label so, whenever something wants to not-connect with your self-image?

You say:

"""And if "spirit" doesn't denote some extra-physical essence, then I would argue it has no referent whatever. In which case might we all do better to just quit writing about it?""

You set a condition of unknowability about what you *don't know,* then say, 'I will therefore ignore any thought or analysis about it?'

No rush, I assure you.

But. Kid.

That ain't science.

That's rationalizing not even looking.

I won't tell you what to believe mind you, but as for 'soul' and 'spirit,' the Christians hardly copyrighted the notion. Never did understand it themselves.

If you have one, pay attention.

If you don't, pay attention.

Neither means anyone owns you.

Wake up. Just cause soul might exist doesn't mean Christians are *telling the truth.*

Mr. om Flynn. I'll have you know I'm very much a partisan of what science can know, btw: it's just *always* the materialists who defecate cinderblocks about the simplest little thing. I'll ask you to not get lazy about the objectivity. Your brain is not abnobjective instrument, and sooner or later, you're bound to freak out. You don't wanna 'vanquish' me, you want me or someone like, on speed-dial.

Dude.

It's not like the Christians say, but it's a heck of a thing, and we've got enough UFO culties as it is. :)

"""Man has not really vanquished Shamanism and its spooks till he possesses the strength to lay aside not only the belief in ghosts or in spirits, but also the belief in the spirit." (Stirner died in 1856, so please pardon his sexism.)""

Sexism? Child, you don't even *know* from sex at this point. You claim shamanism is bunk, and you play the Xbox till you think you can handle Jung.

Seriously, child.

You don't 'vanquish' 'shamanism.' 'Shamanism' 'vanquishes' itself. Until the next bonehead tries having a bad dream and making hay on it.

e're like the fricking dentists of the spirit world: if you only brushed your teeth, we'd be largely out of business.

But you don't.

You want a spirit, spud, Feel your body and breathe.

Whatever Tom Flynn or Tom Corbett:

""Spelling goof aside, what does this passage MEAN? Does it do anything to clarify what -- or at least, what kind of thing -- "spirit" is supposed to be? Does it help us distinguish the spiritual from the non-spiritual? Not so far as I can see!"

Whatever can be said, people's spirit has nothing to do with what you think you or a Church, can argue away.

Whatever 'spirit' is, on't let anyone take it from you, not even me, friend.

These things you talk have little to do with it, they're just a cage, whether you're inside or out of it.

Cages don't teach much about spirit.

If you don't want to believe you have it, still *breathe* it.

DOn't particiate in the Christianist thing, 'If I have a spirit, Churches must own it.'

That's the scam.

Not your soul. Or spirit.

Breathe.

Smart guy.

If you have one, you'd best learn how to have it. If you don't, well, denial won't interrupt what they're slinging at you.

'Spirit' means 'breath. ' in the mundane sense. Breathe. Live. If you don't need to think about it, you'll probably be OK.

But. Don't expect everyone plays by the rules they taught you to rebel within.

What are you some kind of tool?

Breathe. Find what can't be taken. Tell me how important this noise is to you then.

I'm responding to JSMITH4, whose comment offers a textbook example of the obscurity that so often infects writing and thinking about things spiritual. JSMITH4 writes:

"Spirituality is 'the life of the spirit.' Do you have spirit? It helps you empathize with others, connect with other humans, feel your smallness in an enormous universe, appreciate baauty, cultivate your imagination, LOVE."

Spelling goof aside, what does this passage MEAN? Does it do anything to clarify what -- or at least, what kind of thing -- "spirit" is supposed to be? Does it help us distinguish the spiritual from the non-spiritual? Not so far as I can see!

As a nod to clarity, I will answer JSMITH4's question. Do I have spirit? No I don't. I emphathize and connect and appreciate and imagine and love, but I accomplish all those things and more simply by means of my thoughts and emotions. Synapses and neurotransmitters and hormones, they're the real story as far as I'm concerned. Ultimately it all tracks back to physical chemical and electrical events in my brain, with no need to suppose some extra-physical essence whose magical properties make resonance and nuance possible. And if "spirit" doesn't denote some extra-physical essence, then I would argue it has no referent whatever. In which case might we all do better to just quit writing about it?

Tom Flynn (yes, that Tom Flynn)

Last week, “Interview with the Vampire” author Anne Rice left Christianity in the name of Christ and a week later the internets are still abuzz about it. Her statement seems to be almost as contradictory as the Bible itself… almost.

I think it is important to note that Rice left Christianity not over some theological issue concerning God or Jesus being God and a human at the same time. So it doesn’t really make sense to talk about her spirituality as being any different then it was when she professed to be a Christian. Instead, Rice left Christianity for moral reasons. Let's talk about that.

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2010m8d4-On-Faith-Can-Anne-Rice-leave-Christianity-in-the-name-of-Christ

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.

Many esteemed "spiritualities" do not believe in supernatural beings.

Buddhism as taught by the Buddha being perhaps the oldest.

Spirituality is "the life of the spirit." Do you have spirit? It helps you empathize with others, connect with other humans, feel your smallness in an enormous universe, appreciate baauty, cultivate your imagination, LOVE.

Jesus is Santa Claus for adults, I mean really - if you weren't Christian, and you looked upon the beliefs and behavior of people claiming to be Christian -- that's a gut laugh for sure!

I think we can lay Jesus to rest once and for all. He's not coming back any more than Ronald Reagan is coming back.

to Ms. Anne rice:

I am a devoted catholic, I love the Eucharist who gives me strength everyday, and I do believe that the holy host is the real Jesus. Our church has many scandals that destroy the belief of all the members of the holy church. In this case, my belief is not ruins because of the scandals; instead strengthen my beliefs in Jesus. Now I became more prayerful, i prayed the church the holy church of Jesus. I hold my faith very tight near in my heart where Jesus Is resting. Please Miss ANNE HOLD on hold your faith Jesus is always there to enlighten our confusing heart. Our church is compose of saints and sinners but Jesus still love the church. he deeply in love the church that's why he founded the church with love. Miss Anne if you discourage because of the scandals of the church remember the gospel says that the church is to be persecuted by men. i hope this little message can enlighten your heart and mind

to Ms. Anne rice:

I am a devoted catholic, I love the Eucharist who gives me strength everyday, and I do believe that the holy host is the real Jesus. Our church has many scandals that destroy the belief of all the members of the holy church. In this case, my belief is not ruins because of the scandals; instead strengthen my beliefs in Jesus. Now I became more prayerful, i prayed the church the holy church of Jesus. I hold my faith very tight near in my heart where Jesus Is resting. Please Miss ANNE HOLD on hold your faith Jesus is always there to enlighten our confusing heart. Our church is compose of saints and sinners but Jesus still love the church. he deeply in love the church that's why he founded the church with love. Miss Anne if you discourage because of the scandals of the church remember the gospel says that the church is to be persecuted by men. i hope this little message can enlighten your heart and mind

If you can't or don't know what the words spirit or spiritual mean, then you certainly can't say anything meaningful about it. This may be precisely the best place to leave it.

So, I'll leave her (and you) to whatever sentiments she and others like her want. She is free to believe whatever she would like. You too.

Meanwhile, there is world of real-life issues to deal with: war, violence, hatred, poverty, injustice, environmental collapse... and if by some chance I discover that I live in a world with all others who struggle with life's real issues, instead of being all alone and gazing at my inner self, and if I care at all to do anything about it, then maybe I've found true religion. Maybe I've found spirit if I can persuade others of what matters most, and of what doesn't matter at all.

Key word here is belief. Believe whatever you want. She was rejecting the physical expression of Christ's teaching by any of the churches, sects, or organizations that claim to adhere to or speak for this historical figure.

She sure can because, with the exception of Orthodox Pastafarianism, it's all made up hokey.

She can wrap herself in the love of his noodly appendage and bath in the richness of his Sauce of Love. The Flying Spaghetti Monster feeds all who come to him.

rAMEN

How about Christianity based on the historical teachings of Yeshua (Jesus)--not on the Pauline-Christian gospel about Jesus as the crucified savior?

So if Tom Flynn is non-religious and non-spiritual surely he at least believes in his own consciousness. Or does he doubt his own existence? In the history of Christianity he forgot to mention the Gnostics who believed everything was spirit. There was no church, no orthodoxy, no hierarchy. Only spirit existed and all matter was merely an illusion. The Kingdom of God was within and everyone had direct access to God. Following Christ without "Christianity" was probably not a problem for them.

For someone who writes books, Ann Rice doesn't seem to have read many. Hasn't she heard of protestantism? Sheesh. There are a dozen sects she could join and still believe what she wants to believe. That's what they're there for!