Cafeteria Catholics like everyone else should be aware that if they don't live up to God's dictates - then the rich promise of eternal life will be taken away from them and give to a people more worthy of the name catholic.

To be truly catholic is to be called to be great in the eyes of the Creator - to not run around passing judgment on less than perfect clergy while your own life is a wreck.

"Oh, it's ok for me to lie, fornicate, eat like a pig, and cheat on my taxes because I'm a lay person".

Tell that to the devil when he sticks you on his pitch fork and fries you like a piece of chicken.

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Aummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Amennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.. AND now Sing

EKLAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht-i.
.
..
...
............................. ._.
........................ ._.|._.|._.
.................... , .|._.| .. |._.|._
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |._.|
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
................ ._.| .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
........... | .| .) .\ . . ..^ ..^ ..^ . .|
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... |. | . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
............ \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . ../
............. ). \ . . . . . . . . . . .(
............ /. .. \ . . . . . . . . . . .\
.......... / . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . .. \
.......... . . . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . . .\
.......... . . . . . . . \ .. . . . . . . . . ..\
...
..
.

1) Inhale 'E' (sounds like HE/SHE slightly)

2) Exhale 'KLAH' (use 't' for stop-gap in 'time') pause in a Mini Second, THEN

3) Inhale 'i' (sounds like hhii).
.
PEACE,PAZ,SHALOM,SALAAM,AHIMSA,MIR, ZHINGYU..
.
..... Credit "JJ"
.
http://onwapo.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/w-e-l-c-o-m-e/

It Appears? That the Middle-East & Nearer East via [NATO] Offensive or Counter was based on a "BIG LIE" (something That Governments Do Well in their bags of "WORD-MERCHANTizing" War Games. And So

NOW, It is Time To END those "Big Lie"s With [OUR] Truth, Not Theirs!

Behold: Even Governments Must get on Their Knees or Spread EAGLE & 'REPENT'? i Say!

O' Evil Nations, Whom Know What They Are Doing, Bow Down to YE/YO Holyi EKLAHt-i, and ask the Miraculous "IT" for 'FORGIVENESS', Ask not for 'SALVATION' alone.

Note: SALVATION is Never ever by the JEW's! Not The iSHLAMi's! Nor The ESAUi's! Nor The >a>XRSTIANi's! Nor via the MORMONi's! Nor The HUNDUi's! Nor The BUDDHAi's! Nor The SEIHKi's & Other {HUMAN} PRE-APOCALYPTARIANi's {unlike Us APOCALYPTARIONi's, aka HUUMATES of} crawling on OUR (not Their) HOLYi S.Pace-S.hip momma/poppa EARTH, aka S.S. GEOiD, S.S. GAiA, S.S. TELLUSng something.

OyeVazemeer! eye givolt! Amazing, NO Grace!

As Predicted & Expected via "iNSIGHT & PATTERN RECOGNITION" abilities (power), THAT

The "Pre-Apocalyptic Run "JPOST", aka the "JERUsalem Post" [NOt The Original Secular 1] played into US hands and is once again 'falsley' & WAR-BLESSINGLY, instead-Of-PEACE-BLESSINGLY, creating artificial [intel] News or Stretching the TRUTH (opposite Myth) by attempting to COUNTER the real REVEALATION (opposite Secret or Hidden Manna, aka Hidden UMMAH or Hidden Karma..) or get boldly contrary to thee Fact THAT: Satanic VersUS Lover & Gods player OSAMA BIN LADEN IS TRULY DEAD! Nice Try!

Pleazza see This

'France says Bin Laden tape appears? authentic'?? .. in a new-tape?, al Qaida leader threatens to kill French citizens because of their support for war in Afghanistan and new law banning burkas.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=193123

OYEVAY(O' Lordy)! FarVoos(Why)? FarVoos "IT" (G_D, Not A HE nor a SHE)?

SEcret (opposite Revelation) Note: This is the 4th Time or 5th that some Syndicate (can't Mention now) who've Responded with some 'Bin Laden's Message (not Messenger) within a 24/72 hour period!

Talkin about Counter INTELi, Pleazzza!

Note: This NOt a 'wicked-Leak' copycat (un)kinda thing.

THE WORLD WILL KNOW THE TRUTH [About the Death Of Bin Laden & how He Died with PROOF, beyond a Reasonable Doubt!!!) So Help me/i EKLAHt-i!

As a Duty; It's A SCOUTS PROMISE (of the Dispensation) Especially to me/my/OUR Dear Fellow sweet sweet AMERICAN(s) et al!

Dear Governments:

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!....

SHAME on 'JPOST" & CO.! (Sorry WAPO but you should spank ye little sister/brother Sin-dicate. sorry for telling!)

Praise The Holyi NO MAN/WOM! Praise "IT"!

HAiLAYOUYA to "i[WE] the People"

The Catholic church needs to have women in power in the church. As priests, then Bishops, then Cardinals, and, finally, a female Pope.

A Bishop of the Church publically flagellated a nun who helped a group of health care givers make a decision about a woman who could have died giving birth. The question was basic and not that rare: the delivery is not going well and the choices are save the mother, save the child, or do nothing and see if one or both live or die. The Church, cowards that they are, choose the "do nothing" route and call it God's Will. God put us here and requires we act. God does not love a coward.

The Church's attitude toward women, it's brutal choice to protect those who brutalize children rather than the children themselves, it's clothing from centuries ago, its "Swiss Guard" who look like idiots in pantaloons, it's paralysis in the face of scientific discoveries that refute doctrine or call for a new doctrine, etc. They are as frozen in ice as the baby mammoth found in a glacier.

So, as an ex-Catholic, I say my "Our Fathers" and "Hail Marys" on my own.

Thank God for the gifts of Latino Catholics, who simply come at questions of faith refreshingly different from those of many non-Latino Catholics in the US.

Well I recently went with my wife, who is a Latina, and her nephew who is in college to the Museum of Natural History ... and they said, "It makes you think".

Better not get too comfortable with the Latin Catholics when they are assimilated. You have a generation for the refreshingly different faith.

As a practicing Catholic, I enjoy the services, accept many of the doctrines, but I leave a great many others at the door. One must come into the modern age.

I can't see it, Saj. Demographically, collapse in religious observance is a baby-boomer phenomenon. You could probably tie Catholic non-observance to birth control usage. If you look at the birth rates of Catholic countries today, it's pretty clear that this prohibition has gone the way of the prohibition against usury.

The children and grandchildren of non-believers often head back to church! I don't see a huge falling-away of current young Catholics. For one thing, they are extremely conservative, we are down to the core religious in most religions. I think Pew did a survey of daily Mass going, by age and there was no notable difference in daily Mass attendance amongst age cohorts.

I'll look it up. (But not now, I'm busy doing something else.)

@Mary_Cunningham

I beg to differ. There is a large amount of stuff we do to please our parents, and a lot of things we are quiet about in the face of parental approval. Why risk your parents disowning you for a difference in opinion? You can't expect the fear of death to keep people going to a church when there are plenty of other options for Christian churches without some of the negatives of the Catholic Church. Its family loyalty that keeps people Catholic, and loyalty to the community's priests, and as those die, the reasoning for blind loyalty in spite of serious structural flaws goes with them.

@ Sajanas

The death of our parents bring us face to face with our own mortality. So IMHO that doesn't work.

Anyway, if you look at the UK--a very secular society with an established Church--the CofE numbers have been in free fall for decades and they've finally stopped falling. Catholic numbers in England and Wales steadied about 5-10 years ago, coincidentally with the introduction of Latin & an improved liturgy. Applications for Catholic schools have risen sharply along with pilgrimages: the most devout (and fit!)opting for the ancient Santiago de Compostela, the less fleet of foot for the reintroduced pilgrimages to Glastonbury and Canterbury. Baptisms are up in London parishes.

Big problem is lack of clergy. Big problem. I'm pretty sure we'll see the instigation of married priests by the close of this decade.

All RCs should read the accurate commit posted by OCTRAGEX of 10/24/10, 10:24 P.M. and think.

Baby, you ain't seen nothing yet. I've talked with a lot of Catholics and former Catholics, and there is one thing holding a lot of current Catholic from becoming former Catholics, and that is devout parents and grandparents. The young people leaving the church today are the children of people disillusioned with a church that says condoms spread AIDS, women are not good enough to be priests, contraception in a world of 7 billion people is a sin, and that child rape is okay as long as you confess it in the confidence of a priest. The children may leave the church, but their parents stay in to keep the grandparents happy. When they are gone, you will see a flood leaving the church.

Maybe you're not loosing members because you're not conservative enough. Maybe its because you hold a lot of untenable positions in the modern age, and give your members no say in anything with the church governance? And if you become more evangelical and conservative, I think you'll drive off a good chunk of the first world, and make the third world unbearable.

wmarkw:

Re: How I hate these follies of not believing in the Eucharist, etc.! If the Gospel be true, if Jesus Christ be God, where is the difficulty.

Pascal's correllary to the first two statements (what is the problem with the Eucharist if you believe the first two are true?) doesn't apply to you as you don't believe the Gospels are true.

But Pascal was directing his fragment to those who did believe in Jesus Christ, say, in effect how absurd to swallow a camel but strain at a gnat, to believe the greater miracle--the oneness of God with Christ--and deny the lesser one--the oneness of bread with his body. Surely if God can do the first, he can do the second.

What you are disputing here is the existence of miracles. Catholics believe that--though rare--miracles happen, and atheists do not. Miracles can convert the mind by force of evidence (and have). Even then, the hardened heart, determined not to believe, can overrule the mind. It happens very often . Here is Pascal:

"Had I seen a miracle," say men, "I should become converted." How can they be sure they would do a thing of the nature of which they are ignorant? They imagine that this conversion consists in a worship of God which is like commerce, and in a communion such as they picture to themselves. True religion consists in annihilating self before that Universal Being, whom we have so often provoked, and who can justly destroy us at any time; in recognising that we can do nothing without Him, and have deserved nothing from Him but His displeasure. It consists in knowing that there is an unconquerable opposition between us and God, and that without a mediator there can be no communion with Him.

I think the Catholic church in the US has many problems. The pedophilia crisis may not even be the biggest one. Here are what is commonly perceived as problems of the RCC, and I am not arguing they are completely valid, but they are widely-held perceptions:
1. The Catholic church is top down, and heirarchal. Local church members feel disenfranchised by autocratic pastors and higher-ups. Young Americans expect more democratic or consultive leadership. Young americans prefer small teams over large bureaucracies.
2. The church has few accepted outlets for dissent or debate about reform. Dissent is often squashed as "un-Christian." This frustrates young people who are used to vigorous debate,and discussion.
3. The church has a rigid "one size fits all" mentality on many issues while the US has a diverse population with diverse reactions to many theological questions.
4. The RCC is frequently torn between doctrinal purity and the need for a pastoral, loving response to people who fall short of the glory of God. Young people do not like it when the church kicks second graders out of school because they have gay or unmarried parents, for example.
5. Many of the church's most dedicated workers are undermined when their efforts run afoul of a Bishop's doctrinal correctness (for example, nuns in nursing orders who support health care reform).
6. The church is male dominated and dismissive of women in a society where the competency of women as leaders is unquestioned.
7. The church fights a perception that it emphasizes valuable real estate and furnishings in an age when ostentatious wealth is questioned by many seeking a spiritual lifestyle concerned about the poor.
8. The church is still focused on determining who is correct theologically, and who is an insider vs. an outsider (non-Catholic, bad Catholic, etc.). Many young people don't even understand this kind of thinking in a pluralistic society and are more interested in knowing what the church stands "for" (love? Jesus?) rather than thelological squabbling and "hair splitting."
I am not Catholic. I am a Protestan Christian, and I consider myself a friend and respecter of Catholicism. I have lots of Catholic friends, and have discussed and read a good deal about the RCC.

Catholics are a people in denial that their Pope, his Cardinals and Bishops still hide pervert priests from civil prosecution.

Until they demand known "hebephile" priests be turned over to civil authorities for prosecution, they are a complicit people as well, and have no credibility moralizing to the rest of us about the "evils" of homosexuality.

@ wmarkw

"How they expect a billion people, overwhelming literally and the majority educated, to accept beliefs like purgatory, transubstantiation...?"

Well, it is not very strange. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God? It follows from there.

Posted by: Mary_Cunningham | October 23, 2010 10:41 AM
----------------------------------------

If there is a God and Jesus is It, then the pen on my desk is as much the body of Jesus as any piece of bread, before or after a priest blesses it.

How many people who are members of the Roman Catholic Church denomination are there by their own choice?

One only becomes a Believer in Jesus when one accepts on one's own His free gift of salvation.

The comedian Stephen Colbert claims to be a devout Roman Catholic; but, his language on his comedy show is of the anti-christ type in that he uses vulgar words and even makes fun of Jesus at times.

@ Tim Muldoon

You can see a rough counterpart to what has happened to American Catholicism in the experience of established churches in Europe. Membership in the Church of England, Dutch Reformed, Scandinavian Lutheran etc. has collapsed. It has diminished in formerly Catholic countries like France and Spain but not to the same extent.

America, which has no established religion, is probably half way between the two.

@ wmarkw

"How they expect a billion people, overwhelming literally and the majority educated, to accept beliefs like purgatory, transubstantiation...?"

Well, it is not very strange. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God? It follows from there.

How I hate these follies of not believing in the Eucharist, etc.! If the Gospel be true, if Jesus Christ be God, what difficulty is there?

Pensees fr. 225

How many RCs fully agree ( 100% ) with the teachings of the RCC? How many RCs whould be RCs if they where not baptized as a baby and went to RC schools? What is the goal of the aministration of the RCC since the fall of Rome to date? Why has the administration of the RCC in the children sex abuse cases over the years silenced the truth to protect the image? Will Christ be pleased with this track recored? Most RCs believe in the RC religon to a point.

Adrift? How they expect a billion people, overwhelming literally and the majority educated, to accept beliefs like purgatory, transubstantiation and doctrinal ifallibility, is obviously going nowhere at breakneck speed.

I’ll throw this out as a possible explanation, I’ve got nothing to back it up, but It’s something that sort of fits.
Not too long ago catholic communities were indeed communities. Local, accessible, tight knit, and like many other communities, small towns etc. somewhat closed off buffered against other communities for the most part by geography and technology.
I came from a very small town in a sparsely populated state, far from a city of any significance. Three TV stations (fuzzy and B&W) and one or two radio stations broadcasting country music, farm reports and baseball games. News was on TV at 6:00 PM, period. The local paper was really a gossip sheet, the city paper was heavy and wordy, but certainly slanted one way or the other. Everybody knew, or was related to everyone else. People rarely went anywhere interesting, only the very lucky few ever left the state, much less left the country other than in war time.
So our community was our universe. Generations were born, lived and died rarely ever bumping into anything or anyone unfamiliar. Generations went to the same school and church their parents and grandparents went to, this was seldom given any real thought.
We ain’t in Mayberry anymore.
Local and regional distinctions and differences have diminished. Communication with the outside world, views into other ways of life have exploded. Rather than slowly roll across the nation from the coasts, trends, news, information is now immediately disseminated AND we’ve added the feature of actually being able to respond back. A guy in Indiana with a guitar no longer needs to hitchhike to NYC to be discovered.
We can now communicate instantly with people, familiar as well as strangers. Global soap boxes buzz with the thoughts and opinions of millions of voices.
Gone now is community being defined geographically. Gone is the time where you could cloister your children from influences beyond the street corner. Gone is the sense that what came before and what lies forward needs to remain constant, unchanging.
In other words, in terms of world view, we now have options. We can see the world beyond our porch. We can ask questions of anyone, anywhere, not just our family and neighbors.
Could it be that many young Catholics are now just able to see options, choices and lifestyles that simply were not available or visible to their own parents?
I’ll not go so far as to say that Catholics are overtly looking for something better or less arcane, just that they now have options right in front of them.
Good/bad, I don’t know. Nor do I know what the RCC can really do about it. The world is simply changing, again.

"By any measure this is disturbing data"
Why? This is making the assumption that Catholicism is good. In fact, I find the data encouraging since it means many people are taking the question of their beliefs seriously and are not following the faith of their ancestors blindly. I think that doubt and contemplation are superior to faith, which is merely belief in the absence of evidence. As a former Catholic myself, I took my beliefs seriously. I was raised in a Catholic family, attended Catholic K-8 school, and attended one of the best known Catholic universities in the country where I took more than the required number of Theology courses since I found the topic interesting and important. After looking at everything presented, considering things sincerely and openly, I concluded the Catholicism was not a path to fulfillment and enlightenment and, beyond merely being the propagation of groundless superstition, also contained much dogma that was wholly harmful to society and perfectly irrational. In addition to a number of morally shameful dictates (birth control, rights of women to enter the priesthood, treatment of homosexuality, abortion, etc.) the behavior of the church itself throughout its intolerant history as well as its current criminal behavior in its cover ups of child abuse and rape by its clergy is more than enough for any rational person to abandon an institution whose good deeds in the form of schools and hospitals is no justification for its unsupportable dogma and criminal acts.