At least Christians aren't blowing people up.

So many assumptions, so little time:

>>I liked how he thanked his God after his Superbowl win.His God seems pretty small if he cares about such stupid games.

He cares about the interaction of the players, their hearts and sacrifices. He doesn't care so much about who wins but the love between brothers playing.

>>too many Christians have lost all humility and only seek power to lord over others to elevate their own esteem.

This might be true, but it is also true of atheistic religion. And why let suicide bombers off the hook. Hell, indict me, I am human and sinful. But hey, so is everyone else. Only a humanist or atheist would invert the moral order.

>>you can win "with Christian principles" because it is inherently exclusionary and so self-righteous.

Exclusionary is the kingdom of God. Life is not really a multicultural society though many would like it to be. The trick is to leave the deciding up to God about who goes. Self-righteous - you ought to hear atheists pine away about their virtues or nothingness, toughness and rationality. Of course they never will admit rationality is a belief system as well (A.Plantinga)

>>Tony Dungy is a hypocrite. His actions do not live up to his beliefs.

Ahh, but he keeps on trying. That is the Christian way. God asks not that you be perfect but that you keep trying. Only one had a perfect life - that was Christ. Atheists and humanists have inverted views - they actually think perfection is possible, contrary to thousands of years of human historical evidence and the nature of sin.

>>Its ridiculously arrogant to think your one religion is only "real" or "correct" religion, which apparently you do

Kenneth suffers from "leftism" which believes that everything must conform to political correctness to be a valid system. Anything well discriminating is ... virtueless. Libs!

Jane said:
"Interesting how you avoided the question of why you, Kenneth, would want to go to heaven if God is there."
---------------------------
Jane, you're asking a hypothetical question about a hypothetical place which is ruled by a hypothetical god...

Even so, the heaven (and hell) you describe sound as if they're ruled by an authoritarian regimes. Why would anyone want to live under a (God/Jesus) monarchy?

Also, how delightful that some people from other religions may be eligible to enter your version of heaven. That's very generous of you.

Sigh.

Kenneth, since I believe you to be a troll, and since you refuse to answer questions directed at you, this will be my last post.

You quoted me as saying "...people in hell will be there because they have chosen, over the course of their lives, to avoid God. In the Christian belief system, the other option is heaven, where God and people will dwell together forever"

(Interesting how you avoided the question of why you, Kenneth, would want to go to heaven if God is there.)

Then Kenneth wrote, "Jane, under your belief system, any person who doesn't belief in the Christian god is going to hell. This is approximately 4/5 of the world's population or 5 billion people. Its ridiculously arrogant to think your one religion is only 'real' or 'correct' religion, which apparently you do."

I have no idea how you reached that conclusion, when I clearly stated that people in hell have chosen to avoid God in their lives, without making any reference to specific religious groups. Many people outside the Christian faith vigorously pursue God, and I believe that ultimately they will find God. I never said you had to be a Christian or line up to my set of beliefs to go to heaven. I fully expect there to be all kinds of people in heaven, no matter what religious label they had on earth. Who gets into heaven is frankly none of my business and not the primary point of the gospel Jesus taught.

Some people here are just making me sick. Because he is a man of faith, immediately he is a close-minded bigot? I could go through time to name the countless number of religious who prove this idea wrong, and because you disagree with him on something, fine, then so be it. It does not make him a bad person. He has done more for people in Indianapolis and Tampa than anybody here has done (and just by having the time to write here, you prove my point).

So the man is not perfect according to the views of a liberal (which I am) or an atheist (which I am not). The better question is, so what? When did all of a sudden every person have to pass a checklist on gay rights and on G-d? If you go by this, the number of people who pass would be no more than you can count on your two hands.

I myself am Jewish, but I respect Mr. Dungy's faith, and the work he has done to help people. The more people we have like him, the better this country will be. To be angry at the man because he simply doesn't share all your political beliefs (or religious ones) is to belittle the man, and shows just how shallow of a person you are.

Jane said: "...people in hell will be there because they have chosen, over the course of their lives, to avoid God. In the Christian belief system, the other option is heaven, where God and people will dwell together forever"

Jane, under your belief system, any person who doesn't belief in the Christian god is going to hell. This is approximately 4/5 of the world's population or 5 billion people.

Its ridiculously arrogant to think your one religion is only "real" or "correct" religion, which apparently you do.

Kenneth, two points:
One, when I was speaking of love, I was speaking of love for people, specifically of Tony Dungy's love for people, evidenced by his willingness to walk away from coaching in order to serve others. I then wondered aloud about your own willingness to do the same.
Two, people in hell will be there because they have chosen, over the course of their lives, to avoid God. In the Christian belief system, the other option is heaven, where God and people will dwell together forever. Given that, and given your apparent views of God, why would you want to go to heaven?

As a rabid NFL fan, I have tremendous respect for Tony Dungy's professional accomplishments (as a player, assistant coach and head coach). However, I have a huge issue with Tony Dungy stating that you can win "with Christian principles" because it is inherently exclusionary and so self-righteous. Also, what does Mr. Dungy say when he was fired by Tampa Bay, which is owned by the Glazers (a Jewish family)and then wins the Super Bowl without him. Can be the attributed to the "Hebrew principles"? And imagine the uproar if someone in Mr. Dungy's position attributed his victory to Allah or "Islamic principles". I am sure Tony would receive the same universal praise he is enjoying now.

the relation between a man and his creator is up to him. too many Christians have lost all humility and only seek power to lord over others to elevate their own esteem. this has made much of modern religion cheap and tawdry much like the host society. A better way I think is taught by wiser men such as Jefferson, "Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813. or even less well know wise men, "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide. Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place. Show respect to all people and grovel to none. When you arise in the morning give thanks for the food and for the joy of living. If you see no reason for giving thanks, the fault lies only in yourself. Abuse no one and no thing, for abuse turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision. When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song and die like a hero going home."
Tecumseh (1768? - 5 October 1813) Native American leader, Shawnee mystic and warrior, usually known as Tecumseh
Christians will do well to remember God is not exclusive but inclusive, mitakuye oyasin

"Jane, your Christian God will have people forever burn in hell for simply not believing in him. That's far from "love", that's tyranny."

Not that it'll make any difference to you...but you don't go to hell because of a lack of belief...you are conceived in sin, BORN condemned to hell on account of your federal head, Adam, representing all of mankind. The good news is that a SECOND Adam came to pay the price and to lift the sentence with His own body...namely God Himself throught the Person and work of Christ Jesus...the God-man. Gospel 101.

I've seen Tony in interviews and I'm a fan, but he seems to be about as much of an intellectual as G.W. Bush.

But its Tony and God-fearing, small-minded people like him who hold this country back.

I tried not to submit a comment to this thread, but I have to respond to the following:

"Unfortunately for Kenneth's argument, many of our greatest intellectuals were in fact Christians (e.g. C.S. Lewis)."

I have to say that anyone who's read C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" knows that Lewis was not one of our greatest intellectuals. That book was severely prejudiced against non-Christian religions and the arguments could be easily refuted by a child. He called non-Christian religions 'little boys religions' and he argued that humans are superior to other animals because we have capabilities beyond theirs. Hmmm, very weak reasoning powers, Mr. Lewis!

Tony Dungy is a hypocrite. His actions do not live up to his beliefs.

By the way 'Kenneth', your comments are very troubling - sounds like a cry for help if you ask me. If anyone needs God's love right now, it's you. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers - because God even loves losers like you.

My church in Greater Cleveland discussed Tony Dungy's memoir early last year. I highly recommend it! He has wonderful leadership skills, and through his ministry will have a lot to offer men who are going through challenges.

Hey Nolan,

I agree with you that some accuse Christians of being anti-intellectual. However, those accusations are not always coming from the left. I'm liberal and a proud Christian.

Take care!

If there is a god, He's definitely a She.

Wayne,

You sure seem to know a lot about your god's motivations and intentions considering there's no evidence of your god's existence.

Even in your bronze-age scripture, your god seems vengeful (noah, egyptian plagues) and a sadist (Job, Abraham sacrificing his kids, having his son tortured to death). And your God is the biggest mass murderer in history.

Its sad that you and Tony worship such an awful character.

I'm all for separation of church and football.

Jane, your Christian God will have people forever burn in hell for simply not believing in him.

That's far from "love", that's tyranny.

---------------------------------------------
Tyranny? Hardly. Consider. God is sovereign. He made all that exists, even mankind. Yet He provides all that mankind needs to live and flourish. He gave us intellect, the capacity for love, emotion, art, science, creativity, music, worship; the list goes on. He offers a personal relationship in which He cares about every little aspect of our lives. He even gave mankind the ability to say "No" to Him. He doesn't squash them for doing so. In fact, He tries repeatedly over the course of their lives to offer them the gift of living with Him forever in eternity which was His original intention from the time of creation. Mankind chose to say "no" then and mankind suffers the consequence of his choice to this day. It is why the world is the way it is. The condition of our world today is mankind's doing; not God's. Out of His love for mankind, God sent His Son to suffer a substitutionary death to pay the penalty for mankinds' choices. To choose to accept God and His offer of eternal life is not to subject oneself to tyranny, but to take advantage of the liberty God chooses to provide those who choose Him. But, if we choose to follow our own way, we get life without Him. And that is Hell. Hell is anywhere God is not. Those who go there, choose to go. God offers the alternative at no cost.

Jane, your Christian God will have people forever burn in hell for simply not believing in him.

That's far from "love", that's tyranny.

Tony Dungy has in the past raised thousands of dollars for the Indiana Family Institute which among other things fights the right of same-sex couples to marry and the right of gay people to adopt children in Indiana. Not what I'd call a "decent, caring, compassionate man".

In the grand scheme of things, God probably doesn't care about football games. She and He does, however, care about the people who play in them, coach in them, make their living from football games, right down to the people who work the concession stands. Tony Dungy, it seems, does not pass Kenneth's intellectual litmus test. I find myself wondering how much time and money Kenneth spends on the most marginalized people in our society. Love matters more. Being right is not the most important thing.

It must be nice to be able to summarize everything that happens in life with a "god" explanation.

Quote from Dungy:
“The Lord set this up in a way that no one would believe it,” Dungy said following the Colts' win over New England. “The Lord tested us a lot this year, but He set this up to get all the glory.”

Dungy seems petty and provincial if he thinks his god cares about his football team.

I don't know Mr. Dungy, but I do know the claim that Christians are anti-intellectual (as stated by commentor 'Kenneth') is an oft-repeated line from the left. Unfortunately for Kenneth's argument, many of our greatest intellectuals were in fact Christians (e.g. C.S. Lewis). Next time, Kenneth, try harder.

To the poster above, you should really THINK before you comment. Since you don't personally know Tony Dungy you have no idea about his intellect. Tony IS an intellectual and thanking "his God" as you said, is in line with his beliefs and principals, being that he (like the rest of our family) honor "our" God for everything---without him, NOTHING in our life would be possible, triumphs as well as challenges and we thank God for EVERYTHING, whether it be strength to get thru hard times (like the death of his parents and son) or the joys of winning the superbowl after his many years of hard work on the field.

Its too bad that Tony will never get the chance to meet and educate you about his life and his beliefs.

i have never met tony dungy but i have definitely applauded and silently cheered him on, in his walks through life. i guess people sometimes don't know how many people are watching and nodding thier head yes in thier individual livingngrooms or where ever they are when they they once again are reminded by somebodys actual life dmonstrations and achievevements as as well as the heartaches he has so publicly shared.. .. i dont know you but i kind of suspect i might know a lot about you.. but i'm just a dyslexic artist and the son of a southwestern virginia hillbilly this one i think i might have rite

I liked how he thanked his God after his Superbowl win.

His God seems pretty small if he cares about such stupid games.

Dungy seems nice, but he does come across as being pretty gullible and its obvious he's not an intellectual.