"If they allow the Islamic center to be built near ground zero, do the terrorists lose?"
----------------------------
"Yes.....and so do racist hatemongers~!"

Are you saying that if they allow the Islamic center to be built near ground zero, all terrorists and racist hatemongers all over the world will be defeated?

That seems a little too magical; how will an Islamic center in New York city defeat all the racist hatemongers in Montana, Kansas, Utah, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas, Nevada, Iowa, etc.?

And, if allowing the Islamic center to be built near ground zero will defeat terrorism, why would so many people be against it?

F-i-N-A-L -- S-O-L-U-T-i-O-N against the

Racist Pakistani Nationals "Anti-Blasphemy [Sharia] LAW"s & for The Prevention Of a Holocaust against the Good-Peaceful-Wise AHMADiYYAians Citizens in ISLAMABAD, KARACHi et al whom are treated as Foreigners & Heretics/Keffirs, 2nd rate in their own Nation!:

ANSWER: SECEDE! (From The Four (8) Admins of greater/Minor [Illegal] Nation of Sharia Pakistan. Note: The Millions of AHMADiYYA Ummah, Must Secede [Demand & Establish your own NATION/Sovereignty].

VOTE: For A "AHMADIYYA-NATION" Separate from The 4-Administrative Units/Provinces of Pakistan & The Provinces Of Afghanistan.! Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_units_of_Pakistan

-VOTE: Separation From WAHHABIism!!!! VOTE: Separation From AYOTOLLAHism!!!!

-NO: WAHHABIism! NO AYOTOLLAHism!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-VOTE: SEPERATION Frm Pakistan & Afghanistan! - VOTE for: "UNiTED AHMADIYYA" (Not Divided) Ahmadiyya!
__________________________________

SHALOM, SALAAM, PEACE, PAZ, AHIMSA, ZHINGYU, MIR......! Behold:

ISRAEL Welcome's The Victims Of The AHMADiYYA UMMAH (Community) Massacre To ISRAEL.

HEAR Ye Hear Ye O' World: ISRAELi's sings, "LET OUR ABRAHAMIC 'AHMADiYYA' Brothers & Sister GO!

Protect The "AHMADiYYA"ians In Pakistan! Support Them To Have Their Own Secular Ahmadiyya-Nation/STATE! Let Them Build a "AHMADIYYA (Shrine) WORLD CENTER; Like The B-A-H-A-i & the D-R-U-Z-E Free Religions in Israel. Please see respectFULLY:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrine_of_the_B%C3%A1b AND

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/israel/Contemporary_Life/Society_and_Religious_Issues/Arab-Israelis/druze.shtml SO:

WELCOME TO ISRAEL AHMADIYYA People! So;

Thank YOU for Supporting The, "ISRAEL HELPS AHMADIYYA PEOPLE" cause!

PSolus wrote,

"If they allow the Islamic center to be built near ground zero, do the terrorists lose?"
----------------------------

Yes.....and so do racist hatemongers~!

The mosques is being built for the US citizen who are Muslims and have rights and freedom like any other American.
Susan Jacoby, though claims to be an atheist but in her inner-self her religion remains at work.

The only thing that bothers me about a mosque near 9/11 ground zero is that it isn't the highest use of valuable property. The best monument to 9/11 victims and freedom in general is not to sacrifice valuable land for a place to blubber in self pity.

If there is no utility in building a tower, then build something else. W -orld T -rade C -enter III ... I assume it's still safe to do business in New York. Well get busy! There's wells to be capped, nukes to build, customers to bill, ventures to finance, drugs to invent, diseases to cure, a world of hurt to prevent, a world of pleasure to enjoy and a wealth of money to be made! Get busy!

There isn't anything anyone can do, legally, the prevent a mosque from being built within 2 blocks of Ground Zero.... check the Constitution.

"If they do not allow the Islamic center to be built near ground zero the terrorists win."

If they allow the Islamic center to be built near ground zero, do the terrorists lose?

If they do not allow the Islamic center to be built near ground zero the terrorists win.

Nymous wrote "I am so sick of religious people wanting to inject their crazy beliefs into everyone else's lives."

Like evolutionist North Korea or evolution subjects in schools? After teaching that monkeys are their relatives, they want to inject a monkey lifestyle to everyone.

Twins can either be monozygotic, meaning that they develop from one zygote that splits and forms TWO embryos.

Barferio, you are out of your mind. We are talking about a SINGULAR two celled bacteria (which is impossible to happen) and you're here talking about twins? Twins means TWO SEPARATE entities, idiot.

I really wonder why your heads don't ache thinking of Evolution stupidity.

So what? Let them build a Muslim community center two blocks from the site.
The WTC site is not sacred ground. Erect an obelisk or some other monument at the site but let the land return to its normal use.
If we were to make a park out of every place where people died in a tragic act or war or terrorism, in two generations we'd have trash-choked little parks that our grandchildren will avoid for fear of crime or molestation.

I am so sick of religious people wanting to inject their crazy beliefs into everyone else's lives. Go ahead, put 900 different churches, temples, & mosques there, I'll never visit because of that alone.

On Faith Panelists,Cordoba Initiative and ASMA try to build a mosque at 245 West Broadway in TriBeCa/Manhattan.
The Name of Mosque:Gladness/Cheerfulness(I dont want to write in arabic)
West Broadway runs from Ground Zero to West Houston Street.Dont mix with Broadway that is the most famous Avenue which runs from Battery Park/Bowling Green to Harlem River(full lenght of Manhattan) via City Hall,Union Sq.,Times Sq.,West Side and Columbia Uni.
Yes,the Mosque of Gladness near Ground Zero.
Have a great day.

Spidermean, hey, get some of the crap out of your ears and listen for a moment - look up the word monozygotic.

Do you know what a TWIN is? Do you know what a mutation is? The amount of things you do not know about biology is truly profound, almost as profound as the fact that you are a hemorrhoid in the recta of Christians everywhere.

Praise the loward! ( As pronounced by Ernest Angley.)

Firm believer in intelligent design and the worst toupee in all of Christendom.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48)

The Hagia Sophia was the greatest landmark of Christianity - it now serves as a template in the design of all mosques. Why should the Twin Towers be any different?

wondering5 wrote "In order for a Supremely Intelligent Creator (intelligent design) to exist, it must be so complex that it must have been created by an even more complex Supremely Intelligent Creator, and on and on and on.....unil the universe is overcrowded with Supremely Intelligent Creators. "

It's not a question of "who made the Supremely Intelligent Creator" because it can't be studied.

"Who made your brain?" is more relevant coz surely a bacteria can't. Evolution thinks that it's the bacteria. What's more crazy than that? Crazier than the WORST MYTHOLOGY and yet they call it science.

I really wonder why your heads don't ache thinking of such stupidity.

"Ban all churches everywhere."

It's called North Korea.

Religion is like science. There are false religions as there are false science like Evolution.
Banning all religions is like banning all science. That's crazy.
We should allow evolution to be taught but it must be emphasized that it's a FAIRY TALE. Purely for ENTERTAINMENT REASON. Nobody should fail in this subject for as long as the student knows how to laugh.
Posted by: spidermean2
============================================
For someone that always quotes from the Bible, maybe you should read it in it's entirety instead of posting excerpts you googled, especially the parts about whom sits in judgement, it certainly is not Spidermean.

There is a major difference between Wahabi terrorists that chop off animals heads on a Kandahar fountain and use artillery on an ancient Buddhist shrine so people don't pray to false idols and Islam as practiced in Bosnia embracing the Golden Age of Islam. The writer is clueless. We do nothing to stop the proliferation of Wahabi terror preaching madrassahs while painting all Islam with the same tarring brush. The Quran equates Jews with pigs creating a worldwide Islamic hatred of Judaism, but during the Golden Age and even under the Ottomans they were accepted in society. A center that preaches this and opens madrassahs worldwide from the mainly muslim contributions is something we should strive toward. The many Wahabi madrassahs in Pakistan are why the Taliban enjoys support and why mosques are attacked in Lahore.

Sacred ground huh? How primitive. When will we ever learn?

The people who think the path to "never again" will be aided by the passionate cry "never forget" are the most delusional of all. The very idea of sacred ground is the most obvious cause of so much human conflict and somehow, so many do not see this.

The place where it happened is meaningless. The only thing that matters is what went wrong and why?

And in looking for the answer to "why" you are most likely going to find yourself zeroing in on the concepts of "never forget" and "sacred ground" as the culprits.

Sacred ground? Wake up, morons.

Reading through these comments, many of which are so unbelievably narrow minded and stupid, only reinforces my long held belief that the organized religions of the world have been the root cause of most of the evil inflicted by man upon man... or beast. So, in the name of god or God, go kill, go maim, go hate, go tear apart the world if your belief is different than mine. Perfect. And do it sanctimoniously while you're at it! Unfortunately we are waaaay too late to turn the tide against religion in its organized state. All we can do is watch the harm it brings to the world. There is no love in it. Only hate. And, oh yes, don't forget the hypocrisy!

Will those worshiping here be split up according to gender? May I, as a man, be able to wear a head scarf to this building?
If not, why not?

"The level of intelligence nature demonstrates is just beyond human intelligence. The only probable explanation is the existence of a Supremely Intelligent Creator.
Spidermean2"

In order for a Supremely Intelligent Creator (intelligent design) to exist, it must be so complex that it must have been created by an even more complex Supremely Intelligent Creator, and on and on and on.....unil the universe is overcrowded with Supremely Intelligent Creators.

Unless by "intelligent design" you mean space aliens!

Whe Saudi Arabia allows churches and temples then the muzzis can put theirs up otherwise step off.

"Yep. Let it be built. Then blow it to smithereens - on a Friday at peak prayer time.

Posted by: adrienne_najjar"

So you think the same way as a terrorist?

"Ban all churches everywhere."

It's called North Korea.

Religion is like science. There are false religions as there are false science like Evolution.

Banning all religions is like banning all science. That's crazy.

We should allow evolution to be taught but it must be emphasized that it's a FAIRY TALE. Purely for ENTERTAINMENT REASON. Nobody should fail in this subject for as long as the student knows how to laugh.

Islam seems to appeal to the most miserable, wretched, sadistic, uncivilized, and ignorant denizens of the planet Earth. It is a religion of losers and there is another BIG reason these people ascribe to it.

It is a religion of blind vengence. Losers always blame others for their misery and develop a hatred of those who are successful and prosperous. It is the rage of envy.

Their method of leveling the playing field is to murder everybody that does not share their misery.

The proof of what I say is in the news constantly. Suicide bombers, mass murder, and social chaos is the legacy of Islam.

Mosques are unAmerican. They should be banned here. Try building a church in Saudi Arabia and see what happens.

It would be blown up within days.

Ban all churches everywhere. Too many people have died because of fairy tales.

Mankind has proven itself incapable of dealing with the concept of public religion.

Religion, like masturbation, should be practiced in private.

One cell splitting into two is possible, idiot. It becomes TWO separate bacteria and not a SINGULAR two-celled bacteria. That kind of transformation is not possible. A bacteria cannot turn into a multi-celled brain as your idiotic Evolution teaches.

Only people with defective brains like you and Jacoby think that evolution is science.

I am begining to realize very few westerners understand Islam.
By the building of the Cordoba cultural center the muslim world will claim victory, a victory for islam. Most Muslims believe that 911 was the Jews and George Bush's planned attack against the muslims (true muslim logic!).
Islam is a cult, and it is the most hated religion/cult in the world. The mosque is an ugly structure and should be banned from being constructed on ground zero.

Hate ,Ignorance and Fear mongering will make people say and do irrational things and they will fall to ever lows of common sense. that's what I am getting from most comments.people who are complaining about Islamic cultural center are Ignorant savants who are bad mouthing about Islam ,while having no clue about it's,core teachings, history, contribution to civilizations and humanity . How about banning churches near all schools, considering so many "holy fathers" were banging innocent unsuspected children.

spiderman2 doesn't believe in evolution. Hilarious! He doesn't believe one cell can split into two! I guess he thinks microscopes are magical device created by satan to trick us all into believing in science...

Jacoby wants to inscribe this passage on a 9/11 memorial.

"It is therefore necessary to sharpen our senses, distrust the prophets, the enchanters, those who speak and write `beautiful words' unsupported by intelligent reasons."

As always, she misses the STUPIDITY which evolution brings - supported by a twisted kind of science. It is the science of UNREASON.

There are THREE valid reasons why evolution is false. I hope all evolutionists read this so I don't keep on repeating myself.

Reason no. 1 -- it is impossible that a single-celled bacteria can become or transform into a two-celled bacteria or into a multiple-celled organism. There is no available science to explain such a fairy tale. This is the myth of evolution.

Reason no. 2 - soil and water existed before any living thing existed. It is impossible that those brainless substances (soil and water) can form by themselves a very complex matter called plants and animals. There is no available science to explain that such a transformation is possible. This is the myth of evolution.

Reason no. 3 -- Science is the study of nature. Engineering is part of that kind of science. Engineers took many years to extract energy from sunlight and even at this moment they are still scratching their heads how plant leaves has been doing it for eons already. The level of intelligence nature demonstrates is just beyond human intelligence. The only probable explanation is the existence of a Supremely Intelligent Creator.

With these THREE valid reasons, I don't think I mentioned faith or religion. EVOLUTION IS A MYTH BASED ON REASON.

A big portion of the liberal atheistic part of America will be destroyed. That's the prophecy. Blame them on their own stupidity coz as I always say, Stupidity is self-destructive. The idiots are teaching their children how to self-destruct.

EVOLUTION is as dangerous as extreme Islam, if not worse. A much bigger destruction will visit New York because the idiots have never learned. That's the prophecy.

How can we be sure that the Cordoba House will always be presided over by a highly respected Sufi imam who has denounced terrorism and promoted inter-religious cooperation in New York?

" This plan for a taller tower than the Twin Towers --- strikes me as a particularly stupid piece of hubris, totally out of keeping with any idea of dignified memorialization"

I agree; it is a stupid piece of hubris.

The real American response to blind hatred is not to repay it with blind intolerance. The proximity of an Islamic cultural center, run by a tolerant Imam, would highlight the best aspects of America that have made the great nation it is today. Visitors will see on one hand the crime of a handful of fanatics, and on the other a counterpoint on the story of Islam and the democratic character of the United States of America even when under attack.

The writer's other commentary on memorials and how we learn from our tragedies is well put.

The difference between a cult and a religion is simply defined by the number of adherents.

There seems to be plenty of Muslims around, almost as many as there are Christians of various stripes and/or polka dots.

Ask your standard Christian if the Mormons are a cult, or the JWs ... all of them engender cultish behavior in the infected ... uh, I meant in the faithful.

Yeah. the faithful.

"Islam intends to commandeer any Society in which it can become present and, eventually, dominant, either by peaceful or forceful means.

In America, it intends to replace the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches of Government with itself and its Sharia Law."

Gee, it's a good thing Christians don't try to pull that kind of crap.

"There are other videos claiming to refute the above. I have reviewed them and they all fail to disprove the above conclusions."

So the burden of proof is on everyone but you?

Islam is NOT a religion. It is a CULT.

The part of Islam that resembles the outward trappings of a religion is a false facade.

Islam intends to commandeer any Society in which it can become present and, eventually, dominant, either by peaceful or forceful means.

In America, it intends to replace the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches of Government with itself and its Sharia Law.

These plans progress in America but, in Europe, they are much more advanced.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

There are other videos claiming to refute the above. I have reviewed them and they all fail to disprove the above conclusions.

Oops. I posted my comment without reading the remark by bringbacktheconstitution.

We reached the same conclusion.

It would only be an issue to the imbeciles who would denounce one of the world's major religions as the "enemy" of the United States.

So some fundamentalist nutjob criminals bombed the World Trade Center, so what? It has nothing to do with Islam, unless you are a dunderheaded warmongering racist Bush-loving redneck who needs a clearly-defined ethnic foe as an object of your hatred.

Wasn't Timothy McVeigh a Southern Baptist or something? Should we ban Southern Baptist churches in Oklahoma for fear it will offend the victims of his attack?

i would give credit and commend for the people of ny city,the state of ny and the general public of usa.

it would be erectial hypcritical to erect a *freedom tower* and on the same ground block people from practiceing their religion and spreading the right information????

no mankind droped from his/her mama carrying an agenda for disaster,disasters happen every where .

no body took the shrine of fredom from you
and build different place of worship?

as a muslim i do not beleive in images,but remmber miss liberty?missy been standing on ny harbor for long time .

the people by the people and for the people need to pracice what they preach and what they erect!

and guess who brought miss liberty to ny harbor?same people who erected *liberty.equality and freranity*
and take a wild gues,do they practice what they exported to usa?

This is classic islam. Whatever they conquer they replace with mosques. In India, if you look at the old hindu temples, many of them were destroyed by Muslim who then built their mosques. Consequently, this results in Hindu-Muslim conflict that Islam perpetuates. Take for instance, the Hindu temple at Adoyohya, the birthplace of Ram which was destroyed by the Muslims and the Babri Mosque built on top. For centuries this has caused bad blood between Hindu's and Muslims. Why? Because the Muslims could not build a mosque somewhere else. Simple as that. Now they are going to build a mosque on top of 911. This is a final insult to all the innocent who died that fatal day on 911. Please do whatever you can legally to stop them.

Ms. Jacoby,

You say that this is not a First Amendment issue, but I respectfully disagree. The Supreme Court properly looks with strict scrutiny at government action that treats one religion differently from another. The governmental body exercising such discriminatory conduct must show that the conduct is necessary to achieve a compelling government interest. I do not believe that restricting Muslims from building a structure that would be authorized for Christians or Jews could be shown to be necessary.

By the posters same hateful logic, I would find equally offensive a Catholic basilica near where I live because they hide pedophile priests, I would also object to a Mormon Ward because of their intolerant homophobia and I would find offensive an evangelical mega church whose "pastor" prays for the death of the President of the US.

How is your stereotyping of Muslims any different?

Is there any GOOD reason why the Islamic center has to be at the WTC site? It seems like a big slap in the face to all who died there, given that the bombers were, in fact, Islamic fundamentalists on a kamikaze jihad mission to destroy America. Putting an Islamic Cultural Center at Ground Zero is about as appropriate as putting a Japanese Cultural Center at Pearl Harbor, or for that matter, putting an American consulate at the Hiroshima memorial.

There are some VERY sick people posting to this discussion.

Build the Mosque. Only the ignorant will complain!

FROM SUSAN JACOBY

I do think--I thought I had made this clear--that the decision to authorize the building of a Muslim cultural center so close to ground zero was politically stupid. Some of the irrational comments on this blog prove that the city will have to spend a good deal of money to protect this center from crazies, and that alone is an indefensible waste. Furthermore, this is not a First Amendment issue. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of speech, but it does not guarantee the right to do exercise those freedoms on a particular piece of real estate. That said, the reason why this was a politically inadvisable decision has nothing to do with "sacred ground."

Comparing military battles to the killings of helpless civilians who did not choose to fight anyone is an utterly ridiculous example of the unreason that pervades this discussion.

The shedding of the blood of the helpless consecrates nothing.

The minutemen who died at Lexington green didn't do so purposefully, they died there because that was their home. The soldiers who died at Gettysburg were the result of the Army of the Potomac and the Army of Northern Virginia happening upon each other as they maneuvered through southern PA. It wasn't decided that Meade should face Lee at Gettysburg, it wasn't decided that the British and American colonists should exchange volleys at Lexington green. Like Lexington green and Gettysburg, Ground Zero Manhattan is hallowed ground, consecrated with the blood of Americans. Americans just living their lives with no greater expectation than the freedom to do just that.

So if 2 blocks is too close for the Islamic center...what's the "appropriate distance"??

Three blocks...seven??

This is a ridiculous, racist argument. Should we ban "Christian churches" from being built near the Murrah building in Oklahoma City because Timothy McVeigh was Christian?

Wow. Just absurd.

Who has allowed this to happen? This activity will be high jacked by radical Muslims and we will never hear the end of it!
Never!!

A mosque just shouldn't be built there, for whatever reasons, fair or not. This is a place of great pain to an entire nation, and to build a mosque near it is a sharp object in that wound.

The lack of any sensitivity of these people is telling...

The only question I have is "What kind of Mosque?". If it is representative of one of our own American patriotic Islamic groups, well and good and I'd be glad and proud to have it These people send their sons and daughters off to fight for this country and have earned our respect and a prominent place in our society. Having one of their mosques at the Twin Towers sites isn't just a fitting tribute, it is a thumb in the eye at Al Qaida and similar radicals. If, on the other hand, it is funded by one of the radical nutjobs from the Middle East or gets *any* money from them, I don't want it.

Let the Muslims build a Mosque near the WTC site -- when, and only when the a Christian church and cultural center can be built in Mecca!

A ground zero mosque?

Hell no!

BATTLEGROUND51 provides a fine demonstration of Poe's Law.
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I disagree.

There is a factual basis linking Islam with 9/11. Unlike linking evolution with witchcraft and homosexuality.

To those who don't seem to think I used the word "Muslim" or "Islamic" often enough in this column, I refer you to the first paragraph, in which I state (something that hardly needs to be repeated) that the 9/11 victims died at the hands of Islamic fanatics. I guess for some people, you just can't say that Islamic terrorism is bad frequently enough. It's bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Evil. Evil Evil.

The real issue here, as the always-astute Farnaz was one of the few readers to realize, is the nature of historical memory and memorialization. And I repeat: there is something morally questionable about trying to turn a killing ground into a shrine. I can think of any number of actions that do more honor to the dead than visiting the site of a mass murder--from battling government agencies that are still trying to save a buck by denying the permanent health impact on those affected by the toxic chemicals released on that day to supporting heroic human rights workers drawing attention to the worldwide violence directed at Muslim women by many of their religious and political rulers. And that is true whether one lives two blocks, twenty blocks, or thousands of miles from ground zero.

Despite all the protestations, I find Susan column quite daring and rational and voices my feeling for the past nine years. She is 100% right when she states that collectively the 3000 innocent are victims and not heroes. I am also certain that there were quite a few of those 3000 who had done heroic things on during those few hours before they died, trying to help there fellow man and woman. They do and their kith & kin deserve a complete factual accounting of how the government was remiss in letting this to be. That said I am amazed by the fact that the muslims want to build dare to consider that site for building a mosque. Whatever happened to their sensitivity. Are these the same billion people who get easily offended when there is a Draw Mohammed day. Do they not consider how the folks in US and NY city would be offended by this? My apologies, of course there aren't a billion Americans in the US. Or is it that the only muslims can be offended, the other are not so easily offended. Or is it that the only people rest of the world needs to heed to is when muslims get offended. That's it.

How is it that I do not see any outraged objective muslim moderates on here speaking up for what is right?

Of course it is their right to put their Muslim cultural center wherever they want but one would hope that they would display a bit more sensitivity and understanding when choosing a site. Maybe two blocks is far away enough but considering the fact that it was people committing this act in the name of their religion, i.e. Islam, it is really beyond my comprehension how the Muslim community could be that immune to the feelings of non-Muslims on this matter. Whether they were misinterpreting Islam or whether other Muslims feel that the attack was un-Islamic is completely irrelevant when no one can actually state with any authority what true Islam is or preaches. The only thing that matters was that those terrorists were acting according to their understanding of Islam, which incidentally appears to be shared by a great many Muslims, albeit a minority, and that their interpretation can be seen as a legitimate and accurate understanding of Muslim texts, including the Quran. I don't really care what the Sufi imam believes, since his interpretation of Islam has no more validity than Ayman al Zawahiri's.

Perhaps, if the Muslim community, for some reason, feels a need to put the mosque that close to ground zero, it should be specfically dedicated not to the vague notion of "interfaith diablogue" and "increasing understanding of Islam" but, rather, to the dismantling of the Islamic concept of jihad, the condemnation of shariah, and a systematic and critical analysis of the sacred texts of Islam, including the Quran, the Hadith, and the Sira, to either remove or edit those passages, of which there are many, which offer prescriptive guidance to Muslims leading to violence against non-Muslims and Muslim apostates, violence against women and homosexuals, and the subjugation and legal marginalization of non-Muslims. It was Islam that motivated the attacks and it is Islam that needs to be criticized and reformed.

Americans in general, and New Yorkers in particular, have a rich history of tolerance and religious freedom and we are not the ones who need instruction and education about accepting those who disagree with us. The outreach about understanding Islam should not be directed at non-Muslims but, rather, should be focused on the Muslim community which appears to be generally intolerant of any criticism of their religion or their prophet and are more than happy to use violence and intimidation to get their way.

Unless you live on one of the blocks composing Community Board One, shut the hell up. If a mosque opening is being debated in your neighborhood, your two cents will be worth something. Right now, your two cents is worth NOTHING unless you live here.

People who live and work in Manhattan make up the Community Board which voted 29-1 to support the project after 4 hours of public debate from both sides of the argument. What more do outsiders want? For 'big government' to step in and ban mosques within X blocks of Ground Zero?

It's their neighborhood and they decided to support, case closed.

If you think Islam is a religion, there is something wrong with you.

Islam is a CULT, not a religion. A CULT is only concerned with perpetuating itself and cares nothing for others. There is no spirit of Brotherhood and care for Mankind in Islam. There are NO ecumenical humanitarian organizations within Islam. There is no attempt to reach out to other 'religions' because Islam is NOT a religion.

The World will be better off without Islam. Terminating the CULT by destroying its so-called 'holy places' in Saudi Arabia, which can be done NUKE FREE, will end the stinking CULT as no haj pilgrimage will be possible, a requirement of the CULT.

Their instruction manual, the koran, is a hate-book against all other persons outside of islam. It defines all outsiders as Infidels who must be converted or killed and not tolerated.

Turn about against Islam will be fair play.

BATTLEGROUND51 provides a fine demonstration of Poe's Law.

I wouldn’t mind if a Muslim cultural center were built near ground zero if the Muslim community had spoken out against radical Islam and taken an active roll in defeating it.

However, the vast majority haven’t.

Mark
Always seek the truth.

This is about the same as building a Neo-Nazi, training, and stratgic planning H.Q. next door to the Holocaust Memorial.

An outrage to civilized, human beings.

Looks like the terrorists have won, after all. Mosques should be banned for a 3000 mile radius around the 9/11, ground zero site, out of respect for civilized humanity. Putting one that close is an outrage and should not be tolerated.

Unbelievable!

"I encourge everyone to study all religions, I may help in our understanding and acceptance of others."

Actually, this may be counter-productive for many religions.

Susan writes,

"Memorialization is not memory. Too often, the former is a screen on which we project our understandable yearning for good to come out of evil."

At any rate, this is the discourse of the last thirty years (longer, if one traces it back to Nietzsche) except for the ultimate questions. What is historical memory? What purpose(s), if any, does it serve? What kind of "memory" does memorial serve?

And, dominant "discourse" aside, as always, counter voices of human experience must have voice, if "memory" and "memorial" are to mean anything, even in the negative.

Schaum has thoughts on this.

One thing perplexes me about this article. Why is there no mention of the Catholic Church? Surely Susan could have somehow tied the Mosque, 9/11 and Memorials in general to some shortcoming in Catholicism, no? A key feature of her journalism is missing this week. What gives?

Which is the more fitting and cautionary Holocaust memorial--the maintenance of Aushchwitz as a tourist magnet or the testimony of survivors?
--------------------------------------------
This line of thinking runs into the problem of survivorship bias. The death count at Treblinka was similar to Auschwitz, but since Treblinka was purely a death camp, while Auschwitz was also a work camp, practically no one survived Treblinka to talk about it.

No one who interacted with the perpetrators survived 9/11, and just about everyone in the two WTC buildings who wasn't trapped above the impact point got out. So we don't really have the testimony of anyone at high risk to talk about it.

Victims or heroes? No, they didn't do anything extraordinary. I suspect the motivation to memorialize them stems from the idea that they were just like us and were killed for it. Everyday Americans going about their business were killed by people who hate the fact that every day Americans go about their business and live well for it.

For now, we'll build a memorial so that people who consider that date the most important in their lives have a place to visit and reflect. In 100 years, there will be a single statue next to a hypermodern office building where they do whatever the great new technology of the time is.

In our society, and in no small way due to the "values" and "ethics" of Geo. W. Bush and big Dick Cheney, we have a very hard time distinguishing between "Heroes" and "Victims."

Olafgunderson compares Jacoby to Thomas Cromwell. PUHlease. I knew Cromwell and Susan Jacoby is no Thomas Cromwell. "Maudlin tourists" Ms. Jacoby? Good Lord, your entire column is maudlin. How long did it take you to come up with a sentence about jet fuel and human ash in pathetic attempt to erect a column in honor of reason? Perhaps you can erect a memorial to rational men and science at Los Alamos. Their rational, enlightened selves provided the world the horror of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo. Math in the service of murder. A monument to rational hatred as opposed to a monument to irrational hatred. What a risible column.

Good grief Jacoby.

Susan does a fine, "progressive" dance around the basic problem of having a Muslim center next door to the killing field created by barbarous Muslim jihadis.

Susan says:
"The 9/11 victims died because fanatical men, filled with religious and cultural hatred and financed by a hate-based organization led by another fanatic from a rich Saudi oil family, were willing to give up their own lives in order to express their hatred by killing."

Notice anything missing from that sentence?
Muslim and Islam.

This attempt to place an Islamic center at the site is nothing more than the ancient practice of building a religious center on the ruins of a place vanquished by that religion.

Jacoby and her ilk just can't or won't 'get it'.

@adrienne_najjar: And let's bomb a synagogue on Saturday morning on the anniversary of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.

Yep. Let it be built. Then blow it to smithereens - on a Friday at peak prayer time.

Agree completely. Well said.

Folks are looking for drama with this community center situation where there is none.

Good grief! Two blocks in New York City is distant. The range of establishments that can be found in almost any two-block area is vast. I would understand (though disagree) if some objected because the mosque would be located directly across the street, but it seems to me to be patently unconstitutional to try to deny these people the right to occupy land that would be available for a house of worship for a different religion.

So you are objecting to a place of worship being located near the WTC site?

Knowlege is power. I encourge everyone to study all religions, I may help in our understanding and acceptance of others.

Susan Jacoby is a modern day Thomas Cromwell. She is irreverant and uncaring, all knowing. It's all about what she thinks. Frankly, we can do without her and her ilk.