Kingofkings1

"look for the forest, not the trees. Jacoby and her yes-boys have got it wrong on this topic: by a long shot."

I take it that you mean the forest is the big picture, and the trees are unimportant details. But isn't religious freedom in a secular society the big picture? And aren't all the many contending and conflicting claims of religious truths the umimportant details? (Of course, your religion is not an umimportant detail to you, but it is to everyone else; and let's face it; you don't live in a world all by yourself; you live in a world full of everybody else).

You call me Susan's yes-boy. But what is wrong to saying yes to truth, and saying no to lies?

I am anxioiusly awaiting your next snarky reply.

I remember some years ago, after a bad op. sat at my desk and stared at the computer for about week, sank into music.it was never the same after that.

In reflection through the following years.
My friends thought something was wrong, when i surrendered an assault rifle for destruction and, other changes. How many do you know, that do that?

Why must those that choose a path of peace, regardless of religion!or not...be questioned or degraded about things such as personal beliefs?
Jesus?
Aids?
Church?
Peacenik?
etc....?

As the song goes, she can lead you to water, or not...

and so, with that being said,I'll close with, I don't believe in aliens.

Susan, I'm a huge fan, I've read several of your books and I'll be following this Blog as often as your update it!

As far as the topic, I couldn't agree more. We won't get far if we combine the blind, unreasonable tenants of religion with the objective and practical ideals of our constitution and the laws of our nation. Or any other nation for that matter.

If god wants to come down from his cloud and make himself known through a means that would be undeniable, I would invite that. (Please no one say he did that with the bible, a bunch of men wrote and edited that piece of fiction) but until he does, we have to stay as FAR away from the ridiculous "morals" and "ethics" put forth by the church as they attempt to impose them on American citizens through government and the legal system.

Again, Susan, thank you and keep up the good work!

look for the forest, not the trees. Jacoby and her yes-boys have got it wrong on this topic: by a long shot.
Posted by: Kingofkings1
------------------------------------

In what way? The guy who killed Salman Taseer is being greeted as a public hero.

The best thing anyone's said about the guy who shot Gabrielle Giffords is that he might be too insane to understand what he did.

look for the forest, not the trees. Jacoby and her yes-boys have got it wrong on this topic: by a long shot.

The bringing of Pakistan to Arizona prompted SecularRight.org to re-publish excerpts from Salman Taseer's son Aatish in today's London Telegraph:

For if it is science and rationality whose fruit you wish to see appear in your country, then it is those things that you must enshrine at its heart; otherwise, for as long as it is faith, the men who say that Pakistan was made for Islam, and that more Islam is the solution, will always have the force of an ugly logic on their side. And better men, men like my father, will be reduced to picking their way around the bearded men, the men with one vision that can admit no other, the men who look to the sanctities of only one Book.

Already, even before his body is cold, those same men of faith in Pakistan have banned good Muslims from mourning my father; clerics refused to perform his last rites; and the armoured vehicle conveying his assassin to the courthouse was mobbed with cheering crowds and showered with rose petals. I should say too that on Friday every mosque in the country condoned the killer’s actions; 2,500 lawyers came forward to take on his defence for free; and the Chief Minister of Punjab, who did not attend the funeral, is yet to offer his condolences in person to my family who sit besieged in their house in Lahore.

http://secularright.org/
--------------------------------------

At least Sarah Palin has Facebooked condolences to the Giffords family.

Is test of the heat of rhetoric how it will be interpreted by our 300 millionth most unstable citizen?

-

█▀█░██░█▀█░█▀░██
█░█░█■░█▀█░█░░█■
█▀▀░█▄░█░█░█▄░█▄
█ &. . . . . . .
. . . . ╔╗ . . . . . .
. . . . ║║╔═╦╦╦═╗
. . . . ║╚╣║║║║╩╣
. . . . ╚═╩═╩═╩═╝. . NO
. . . . ╔╗
. . . . ║║. . .╔╗
. . . . ║╚╦═╣╚╦═╗
. . . . ║║║╬║╔╣╩╣
. . . . ╚╩╩╩╩═╩═╝●
.
.
Ommm, Aumm, Amen Now EKLAHt..
.
..
............................. ._.
........................ ._.|._.|._.
.................... , .|._.| .. |._.|._
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |._.|
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
................ ._.| .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
........... | .| .) .\ . . ..^ ..^ ..^ . .|
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... |. | . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
............ \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . ../
............. ). \ . . . . . . . . . . .(
............ /. .. \ . . . . . . . . . . .\
.......... / . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . .. \
.
Credits "JJ" http://onwapo.wordpress.com/

AMERICAS [HiDDEN] PREOPHET aka "SHiLOM" Spaketh [TRUTH} opposite MYTH!

Behold: The "PHOTON/LIGHT-BRINGER OF THE APOCALYPSE ON S.pace S.hip EARTH!!

Dated: MARCH.3.1984

America's [HIDDEN] Prophet:

"Nothing moves world more than refreshing thoughts."

credit: MARIST COLLEGE's "THE CIRCLE news (VIEWPOINT) Pages 5 & 17.
http://library.marist.edu/archives/MHP_new/theCircle/pdfs/1984_5_3.pdf

by Harry Theriault PhD.
Maybe it's time to tell this
story;-and maybe it isn't. I think
it is, because both my gut and my
head are signaling me so. Plus
Richard Copp has a standing invitation
for "essays on politics,
the arts, world affairs and other
concerns.

He's the editor of Viewpoint at
Marist College. Just before the
Spring Break 1984, the March 8
issue of the Marist Circle
newspaper came to my attention
from the floor of Unit 2a at the
Otisville national prison, N.Y.,
where some male prisoners (no
female prisoners here) are taking
Marist College Courses and
contemplating girls (women, to you
libbers) as the only effective
solution for their apathy.

Girls like the one who wrote the
Viewpoint essay in that issue quite
artistically questioning, "Apathy,
today, tomorrow ... forever?"
Sophomore Communication Arts
Major Jennifer Nash. I salute you
with this rather novel response.

New song for new age
Every new age in the history of
the Earth seems to have begun
with a new song in the life and
love of its people, when they need
it the most. Some sort of a falling
process, almost a stumble in their
suffering, I would say, but also
like falling in love.

Who has ever experienced that
pheonomenon without identifying
the song as his or her own — their
own ("our song") — which happened
to be playing at the time
each of them became aware of the
other's body scents like love potion?
The song in the affair marks
the beginning of a new age in the
life of such people to help fight
their apathy.

Changes in nations come about
the same way. What is a Nation
without its anthem, the love song
of its promised freedom, conceived
and sung in the heat of battle
by both the heart and the head of
the artful communicator?

I think also that every person's
religious song comes before his or
her national anthem by human nature.
Christ comes before The
Star-Spangled Banner for the
Christian. Jimmy Carter, for
illustration, was a Christian,
before he was a President of the
United States.

Khomeini was a Muhammadan, before
he was the
Ayatollah of Iran in the political
sense. Buddha was a Hindu,
before he became a nationalistic
symbol. Moses was a Hebrew,
before he was the founding
lawyer of the Nation Israel. 1
could go on and on; but I believe
you get the point OK.

The interval of Apathy which
Ms. Nash became painfully aware
of the world population as going
through during her sophomore
year at Marist College happens to
coincide strangely with the
Sophomore Year of the Coming
Apocalypse, in my judgment, and
here's why, apart from bent
theologies.

There are signs of history all
around us right now that suggest
something big is brewing in terms
of the economy. Not just in
America but worldwide. Indications
are that every Nation is
about to be humbled by an Inflation
which happens to be exhausting
itself toward the end of
1985 and the beginning of 1986,
when Halley's Comet is also due,
according to the astronomers, to
salute us with an awakening from
the Clock of God, that Almighty
Wonder that makes us wonder
what created us, etc.

Meanwhile, back in our hearts
and coming to the attention of
our heads is a New Song to help
us fight the apathy of the age that
is about to be phased out by the
coming of this New Age. The Bible
says, "They sang a new song.
;for the healing of the nations . .
and there shall be no more
curse." (Rev. 5:9, 14:3; 22:2-3;
Isa.42:10, etc.)

Almighty wonder
As the light of heaven's hope
breaks through upon the world,
people will behold it as it
supernaturalizes them with refreshing
thoughts to fight their apathy and
enjoy the excitement of what it
must mean. But what?

Oh, Almighty Wonder, people
will be saying to their Creator but
in the language of their religion.
Oh, Almighty Wonder, what is
this? What in the world does it
mean? Is the end of the world
coming now? Tell us, Almighty
Wonder! Oh, please, tell us.

People will be springing up
everywhere claiming to proclaim
the Word of God about that
Cometary Star. Some will be
right; and some will be wrong;
because, some will be wishful
thinking that now is "the end"
and only they themselves have
been good enough to go to
Heaven, while others will be
speaking prophetically as the
signals of their hearts and heads
coincide with that Apocalyptic
light in the sky.

Did you know that if you figure
out the exact speed of that thing
over the last 2000 Earth Years,
taking into account the influences
bearing on its acceleration and
deceleration, the answer will fit
into the span of time between the
birth of Jesus and the Xmastime
location of that thing during 19|5
at the rate of 26 loops. His
birthdate was 26 complete cycles
ago.

What does that mean? It means
that those three famous Wisemen
could have been looking at the
same signal you're going to see
with your own eyeballs, except
this revolution of that light is for
a slightly different purpose. What
purpose? I say a synergetical
system of human government,
which I'll try to explain as briefly
as possible here. This means that
in our time, the end of the system
is not the end of the world. I also
call the coming system, Gridarian
Democracy, and here's why.

Gridarian democracy
Let's begin this explanation in
terms of what is Apocalyptic
compared to the pre-Apocalyptic.
All pre-Apocalyptic governments
are based on secrecy, whereas
Apocalyptic means revelation
which is just the opposite. I think
you get the point quite vividly.

Once that difference is
understood by one person on Earth,
such as myself, or all humanity,
one of whom we each are, the
stimulating questions of Jennifer
Nash seem altogether different
from what they were before this
point came into focus for us to
refocus the meaning of "peace"
as something more than the
absence of war or punching each
other out at the level of mass
behavior.

The next thing I want to bring
up is the difference between
"group" and "grid," because all
pre-Apocalyptic governments are
based on group almost exclusive
of the grid of the people, whereas
an Apolcalyptic government has
its roots in grid so that the
preApocalyptic need of the national
group does not center around
secrecy oblivious to the grid (field
of influences) between the people
of its jurisdiction and the
resources it is capable of shunting
in the right places both at home
and through international
developments.

I know this doesn't sound
possible at first to a bureaucrat or
a member of the systems in
preApocalyptic times, but 'as this
refreshing thought hits its mark in
the imagination of a learner and
makes a flash of intelligence, the
light of those flashes can do a
marvelous thing and a wonder. It
will be with such people that
Gridarian Democracy begins on
this planet.

And isn't that what the Scriptures
say? I have studied the
Torah of the Jews for this purpose.
I have studied the Testament of the

Christians for this purpose. I have
studied the Quran
(also spelled Koran westwardly)
of the Moslems or Muslins for
this purpose. I have studied the
Gita of the Hindus for this purpose.
In fact, all major Scriptures
have mysteriously found their
way into my life and love for this
purpose; and I noticed that none
of them excludes the prophecy of
this event. All predict an
Apocalypse in world history, only
different words are used to get the
point across.

The Islamic language is Zilzal
(meaning a "shaking"). The
Vedic language is Bhagavadia
(meaning a blessedizatiori). All of
them agree that this Tikkun
(Jewish) or Apocalypse (Christian)
must be brought in by the
elect of the Earth; and it is from
the word "elect" that we get the
term "election" which is purely
democratical, whereas the best
pre-Apocalyptic governments
have only been republics (with or
without bananas).

Now, as we begin to combine
the elect with the grid through
their thinking synergetically, what
we will be getting is Gridarian
Democracy to make this a better
world, not only to live in but to
love in, which means we're right
back to that process of song I was
telling you about earlier. Sing
this:
We live in an age of song
That cannot be suppressed and
here's why,
Talk has legs and can walk
But song has wings and can fly!

First integer of new system
Squeezing Gridaria n
Democracy into this little essay
for the Marist Circle isn't going to
be easy, but here goes. The First
Integer of Gridarian Democracy^
starts to engender on this planet,
when people become conscious of
this New Song and begin to loose-
" ly organize themselves into
Gridarian Votary Associations.
Tenative beginnings are good
enough. These can range from
just a few people up to 1500 per
association.

At the capacity of 1500, the
laws of genetics — the
synergetical principles j of
biological development — come
into play, and the unit of 1500
"splits" like in the DNA structure
to form two units of 750 people
per organization. Please take
Gridarian knowledge that the
term "organization" comes to us
from the word organ by which we
describe what the genetics of our
bodie s are fashioning
synergetically as we grow.

The definition of synergetical is
the effect that two or more things,
when working together, can pro

Continued on page 17

Continued from page 5

duce in such a way as to be more
than the sum of their parts, like
the laws of nature producing life
and love, or the parts of the being"
of ourself producing a personality.
The definition of Apocalyptic
is simply the future and prophecies
about the future undergoing fulfillment.

Each votary association must
elect from among themselves a
leader and a co-leader. This
emissary and this co-emissary
become the Emissarian Team to
help lead the association, because
"important' biological objects
come in pairs," as Dr. Crick and
Dr. Watson learned during their
famous discovery of ttte double
helix around 1950 as an adjunct
to this coming system. The "grid
effect" of this new system begins
to surface as the majority of each
association begins to express itself
through the synergetical
organization in a constitutional manner.

Second integer of new system
What I have just barely explained
to you is really how the
basic salts and the basic sugars in
DNA, like opposite parties in a
political system, become
synergetically bonded in a "grid
system" to produce more than the
sum of their parts — miraculous
results! Who would deny that our
human bodies are natural.
miracles from a supernatural
source, that Almighty Wonder
somehow behind all the Scriptures
of humanity in the world.

The Second Integer of
Gridarian Democracy simply
organ-izes the Gridarian Votary
Association into Gridarian
Synergetics. This is course is done
by amendment of the Constitution
synergetically (that is,
through the associations that are
engendering as need be) so that
there is a smooth transition.
Eventually, the strength of the
associations will be constitutionalized
and Enumerated
through the Congress in America;
and, in other countries, through
the congressional tantamount.
History will be taking care of all
that, I'm not worried.

Although votary associations
can and will officially fluctuate
from 750 to 1500 people, the ideal
number is 1000; and this ideal
number is the very definition of
the Apocalyptic term "millennium."
o as these millennial
units arise and become necessarily"
constitutionalized, Apocalyptic
times will be coming in, and
preApocalyptic times will be going
out along with those worried
questions of Jennifer Nash and
lots of others.

Each Gridarian Synergetic will
be composed of 1000 votary
associations of 1000 people per
association ideally but the
Synergetic may fluctuate from
750 associations to 1500, just as
the associations themselves may
fluctuate from 750 people to
1500. This play in the joints of the
system is essential for the
purpose of Apportionment, a question
that came up repeatedly before
the courts in .pre-Apocalyptic
times as a preparation for this.
History works that way.

These figures reveal that there
will be one million people in each
Synergetic ideally; so, however
many million people there are in a
Nation, that's how many
Synergetics there will be, an easy
thing to remember.

Instead of the unilateral and
this one-way governments in
preApocalyptic times, what will be
emerging is a two-way and thus
multi-dimensional system for
Apocalyptic times, where the
constituents and their leaders will be
in touch with each other through
the Apocalyptic Votary Associations.

Third integer of new system
Once the Inverse Crucible has
begun to function in a big way, it
will validate the associations as
Apocalyptic necessities, and it is
time for a synergetical presidency
which shall be the Gridarian
Aucourancy , of the United
Synergetics to help keep it
up-todate and in-the-flow with the
give-and-take of other Nations,
both pro and con, as history also
forces them by sheer necessity to
"go synergetic" and make world
peace an Apocalyptic reality, even
a Rapture of checks and balances
and a wonderfully invigorating
experience of every citizen of the
Earth, rather than the absence of
war merely and a bunch of Jennifers
worried and their fellows
reacting with violent outbursts
against people like John Lennon
who sang, "All we are saying is
give peace a chance." Otherwise,
who's going to be President next
doesn't matter very much. So why
vote? Hence, apathy.

Gridarian primaries are essentially
different from today's
primaries for the American
Presidency; and the Aucourantial
Team has a more enlightened and
effective role in the leadership of
the people. Suffice it to be
pointed out here that no
Gridarian Aucourancy can come
to constitutional power without
first having won election as a
Synergetic leader through the
votary associations whose majority
vote is the sense of wonder or
"element of beyondness" that
gives the system its Grid Effect.

Here's how an Aucourancy is
basically elevated into the Grid
Effect for synergetical leadership
at the highest national level.

The leaders on the Left shall
nominate a candidate from the
Right, with the advice and consent
of their respective votary
associations. The leaders on the
Right shall nominate a candidate
from the Left, with the advice and
consent of their respective votary
associations. Then shall occur a
run-off, with all the fanfare akin
to the politics of the times, so that
the associations can choose from
those four candidates an
Aucourant and a Vice Aucourant.

Fourth integer of new system
An inspirational glimpse of the
Fourth Integer for Gridarian
Democracy to bring it into the
international arena can be
Apocalyptically shared at this
time by simply pointing out that
each Nation going synergetic will
eventually become a Great Votary
Association whose executive
leadership flows through the
Aucourantial Team (primarily au
courant means both up-to-date
and in-the-flow).

World peace
The possibilities of Synergetics
are not limited to what I have said
so briefly here any more than the
possibilities of Apathy are limited
to what Jennifer Nash said in the
March 8, 1984 issue of the Marist
College newspaper under Viewpoint.
World peace, as a
democratical phenomenon and
not a messianic dictatorship, can
only come through us and our
children exercising the faith of
our intelligence in a synergetical
way inspired by the scriptural
fulfillment of that Almighty
Wonder in every atom of our
humanness and the cosmo3>of our
origin and development.

I think it is that time in the
history of our souls. So

I salute Jennifer Nash for
her worried essay.

And I leave you with your imaginations
flashing, whoever you
are, who may be destined to make
this a better world to love in with
Gridarian Democracy. Instead of
apathy, today, tomorrow ...
forever; let's make it Gridarian
Democrats, today, tomorrow ...
forever! What say?

Dr. Harry Theriault has a
number of nicknames and can be
reached at Otisville,
N.Y. He [WAS] a prisoner
there.

Nothing moves world more than refreshing thoughts
http://library.marist.edu/archives/MHP_new/theCircle/pdfs/1984_5_3.pdf

.... Continued from page 5

duce in such a way as to be more
than the sum of their parts, like
the laws of nature producing life
and love, or the parts of the being"
of ourself producing a personality.
The definition of Apocalyptic
is simply the future and prophecies
about the future undergoing fulfillment.

Each votary association must
elect from among themselves a
leader and a co-leader. This
emissary and this co-emissary
become the Emissarian Team to
help lead the association, because
"important' biological objects
come in pairs," as Dr. Crick and
Dr. Watson learned during their
famous discovery of ttte double
helix around 1950 as an adjunct
to this coming system. The "grid
effect" of this new system begins
to surface as the majority of each
association begins to express itself
through the synergetical
organization in a constitutional manner.

Second integer of new system
What I have just barely explained
to you is really how the
basic salts and the basic sugars in
DNA, like opposite parties in a
political system, become
synergetically bonded in a "grid
system" to produce more than the
sum of their parts — miraculous
results! Who would deny that our
human bodies are natural.
miracles from a supernatural
source, that Almighty Wonder
somehow behind all the Scriptures
of humanity in the world.

The Second Integer of
Gridarian Democracy simply
organizes the Gridarian Votary
Association into Gridarian
Synergetics. This course is done
by amendment of the Constitution
synergetically (that is,
through the associations that are
engendering as need be) so that
there is a smooth transition.
Eventually, the strength of the
associations will be constitutionalized
and Enumerated
through the Congress in America;
and, in other countries, through
the congressional tantamount.
History will be taking care of all
that, I'm not worried.

Although votary associations
can and will officially fluctuate
from 750 to 1500 people, the ideal
number is 1000; and this ideal
number is the very definition of
the Apocalyptic term "millennium."
o as these millennial
units arise and become necessarily"
constitutionalized, Apocalyptic
times will be coming in, and
preApocalyptic times will be going
out along with those worried
questions of Jennifer Nash and
lots of others.

Each Gridarian Synergetic will
be composed of 1000 votary
associations of 1000 people per
association ideally but the
Synergetic may fluctuate from
750 associations to 1500, just as
the associations themselves may
fluctuate from 750 people to
1500. This play in the joints of the
system is essential for the
purpose of Apportionment, a question
that came up repeatedly before
the courts in .pre-Apocalyptic
times as a preparation for this.
History works that way.

These figures reveal that there
will be one million people in each
Synergetic ideally; so, however
many million people there are in a
Nation, that's how many .....

.... are limited
to what Jennifer Nash said in the
March 8, 1984 issue of the Marist
College newspaper under Viewpoint.
World peace, as a
democratical phenomenon and
not a messianic dictatorship, can
only come through us and our
children exercising the faith of
our intelligence in a synergetical
way inspired by the scriptural
fulfillment of that Almighty
Wonder in every atom of our
humanness and the cosmo3>of our
origin and development.

I think it is that time in the
history of our souls. So

I salute Jennifer Nash for
her worried essay.

And I leave you with your imaginations
flashing, whoever you
are, who may be destined to make
this a better world to love in with
Gridarian Democracy. Instead of
apathy, today, tomorrow ...
forever; let's make it Gridarian
Democrats, today, tomorrow ...
forever! What say?

Dr. Harry Theriault has a
number of nicknames and can be
reached at Otisville,
N.Y. He [WAS] a prisoner
there.

Nothing moves world more than refreshing thoughts
http://library.marist.edu/archives/MHP_new/theCircle/pdfs/1984_5_3.pdf
====.

You should learn a little history before you try to cite it.

The Puritans were not religiously tolerant or supportive of religious freedom. In fact, in 1650, the Maryland Puritans revolted against the religiously tolerant government of the Maryland colony, threw out the government, outlawed Catholicism and Anglicanism; and burned all the Catholic churches in Maryland.

And, the Plymouth colony was long gone before the American revolution. Religious freedom was not a factor in establishing the United States.

THISISHOWISEEIT wrote:
"Did the Pilgrims came here to seek freedom of religions or freedom from religion, without openly saying so?"

Did the Pilgrims came here to seek freedom of religions or freedom from religion, without openly saying so?

Hope springs eternal.

Kingofkings1

"Are you a paid spokesperson for Jacoby?
Also, there is a lot that is wrong with a lot of things at present including different faith systems, state terrorism, excluvisim, and apartheid proponents, to name a few. To focus on one group exclusively as the source of the world's woes is clearly wrong ... "

I can see by this post, and others of yours, that you lack the capcity to respond intelligently to any kind of criticism, because Islam is beyond criticism. But, it is NOT. And there is nothing that people like you can do to quash such criticism.

No, I am not a paid spokesman for Jacoby. I do not need to be paid to express an opinion; I express my own true opinion.

I have NEVER said that Islam is the source of all the world's problems. That is what you have read into valid criticism, because you cannot accept criticism of any kind. And Susan has never said such a thing, either.

The title of Susan's essay was "Without Securlar Government, There Can Be No Religious Freedom." It was written about the political struggle WITHIN the United States over the role of religion, Islam is only peripheral to her essay.

If you have something relevant to say about her essay, in general, to show that you understand it, then go ahead and say it. Attacking democracy only shows your ignorance.

Kingofkings1

"Are you a paid spokesperson for Jacoby?
Also, there is a lot that is wrong with a lot of things at present including different faith systems, state terrorism, excluvisim, and apartheid proponents, to name a few. To focus on one group exclusively as the source of the world's woes is clearly wrong ... "

I can see by this post, and others of yours, that you lack the capcity to respond intelligently to any kind of criticism, because Islam is beyond criticism. But, it is NOT. And there is nothing that people like you can do to quash such criticism.

No, I am not a paid spokesman for Jacoby. I do not need to be paid to express an opinion; I express my own true opinion.

I have NEVER said that Islam is the source of all the world's problems. That is what you have read into valid criticism, because you cannot accept criticism of any kind. And Susan has never said such a thing, either.

The title of Susan's essay was "Without Securlar Government, There Can Be No Religious Freedom." It was written about the political struggle WITHIN the United States over the role of religion, Islam is only peripheral to her essay.

If you have something relevant to say about her essay, in general, to show that you understand it, then go ahead and say it. Attacking democracy only shows your ignorance.

Kingofkings

"To focus on one group exclusively as the source of the world's woes is clearly wrong"

And who did this? Can you quote someone doing this?

What you have there is called a scarecrow argument.

How entertaining the same Huckabees who block alternative energy at every turn for fear of the consequences on BP's profits demonize and make enemies of the very Muslims to whose teats they are addicted to for oil.

Danielinthelionsden wrote:
There is a lot wrong with Islam, and it is in desperate need of its crtitics.

--------------------------------------

Are you a paid spokesperson for Jacoby?

Also, there is a lot that is wrong with a lot of things at present including different faith systems, state terrorism, excluvisim, and apartheid proponents, to name a few. To focus on one group exclusively as the source of the world's woes is clearly wrong, when the source of misery in actuality is a myriad of forces

Kingofkings1

Susan has covered ALL the topics you mentioned in previous essays not to mention many other articles and books. It is just that EVERYTHING that she believes on EVERY subject cannot be included on any single short essay. Criticism of Islam is NOT the same as Islamaphobia any more than criticizing the Catholic Church is Catholic bashing. Such thinking as yours is passive aggressive, hostile bluster, followed by curisous disblief at having caused offense.

There is a lot wrong with Islam, and it is in desperate need of its crtitics. And of course democracy is not for everyone.

Dictators, Strongmen, Emperors, and Kings certainly don't like it.

Those who seek to control the inner workings of other people's minds certainly don't like it.

Those who seek punishment for heresy, blasphemy, apostasy, wrong thinking, and free thinking certainly don't like it.

Men who insist that women cover their bodies from head to toe certainly don't like it.

People who seek to control other people's sexual conduct and who seek the death penalty for gays certainly don't like it.

Everybody else, who seek to live, work, dress and believe as they please, according the nature of their inner will and their own true hearts, such people may prefer democracy.

Of course, I am sure, that you will have some cryptic and obscure verse from the Kkoran, as your Christian brother also have from the Bible, about how my thinking makes me a Godless agent of Satan.

So what?

Interesting story out of Pakistan, that a major politician there is in trouble because he did not know the right way to recite a prayer. Muslim prayers are, apparently, always recited in the classical Arabic of the Quran, a language few Muslims acutally use.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/01/how-america-is-a-little-like-pakistan/

The article goes on to make the point that upper class Pakistanis are rarely devout Muslims, and analogizes that based on education level, there should be an expected 12 admitted atheists and agnostics in Congress, instead of zero.

BTW, an article I saw about the recently assassinated governor, Salman Taseer, said we was a Westernized individual who got his coffee at Starbucks. He may have been Westernized, but seeing how popular coffee is among Muslims, this isn't really a very good example of it.

Susan Jacoby, welcome to the bandwagon of islamophobes. Presently, it is the quickest way to mass adulation in the west. I didn't notice in your column about the recent conversation that God had with GW Bush and Who told W to go forth and conquer the heathens in Iraq, as a result of which we have hundreds of thousands dead and injured.

Franklin Graham certainly deserved some mention in your column about the secular nature of our country and forging cooperation with others for an enlightened society.

Finally, just because democracy has worked for the west based on its past history and present circumstances, does not mean it is the best form of governance for all people at all times. At least not when 51% of a group votes to kill the 49% of another group.

Oh, OK. Thanks for clarifying.

DANIELINTHELIONSDEN WROTE:

In replying to the others who think that America was founded as a Christian nation, I was seeking to point out the irony of their misguided thinking.

"The Founding Fathers were well aware of what religiuos warfare had done to Europe and sought to pre-empt it in America. Of all their goals and aims, that was preobably Number One."

Actually, their number one goal was to found a durable republic government accountable to a democratic election process. Remember the Roman Civil Wars of Octavian, Anthony, and Lepidus, and how poorly the Second Triumvirate turned out for the Empire?

They wanted to avoid the overreactions of the direct democracy. Remember Nicias of Athens and his ill starred Sicilian Expedition that was the ruin of Athens in the Peloponnesian War?

So the Founding Fathers were concerned with the disastrous performances of the first democracy and the the greatest republic in the Ancient World. Their concerns for your pet issues, while real, were tertiary.

The Founding Fathers attempted to design a system that would resist the patterns of failure they saw in governance in the Hellenic and Roman Ancient World. "Separation of Church and State" was somewhere well down list from those goals.

Itsthedax

In replying to the others who think that America was founded as a Christian nation, I was seeking to point out the irony of their misguided thinking.

SECULARISTS, Believing, Agnostic, Atheist:

PLEASE read Barry Lynn's excellent essay. With Mullah Boehner running the House,we must consider extending our protests to the Actual, IMO.

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/Barry_Lynn/2011/01/constitutional_contrivance_house_leadership_goes_for_the_gimmick.html

And the Georgia colony was established as a penal colony for people in debtors' prisons. Does this mean that we have a tradition of being deadbeat jailbirds?

Danielinthelionsden wrote:

Yes, immigation to New England in the early seventeenth century was partly due to the building pressures in Germany that ultimately erupted into the bloodbath known as the Thirty Years War, one of the bloodiest wars in world history, waged between the Catholics and the Protestants.
So, we do have religion to thank for emergence of America, don't we?

SJ:"The governments--our putative allies in the Muslim world (and in Iraq, a government that would never have come into being without American military force)--seemed unable or unwilling to display any backbone on behalf of secular principles of governance."

I admit, I was wrong in my expectations for Iraq. I thought their reasonably-educated population (literacy is about the same as India and Indonesia) would be so happy not to live under tyranny and torture that they'd jump at the chance to practice democracy.

Some peoples' appear to simply not be up to having democracy. If you'd rather execute blasphemers and kill the politicians who disagree, then you might as well go back to your middle ages system.

But I don't think the issue is primarily "secular government" as the title of the article implies. There are state churches in the UK, Norway, Iceland, Greece and Argentina, but they do little to restrict anyone's freedom at the practical level (beyond paying clergymen with taxes).

The more important issue is the extent to which the population is willing to tolerate freedom for others as part of the price of their own.

... typos ... typos ... typos ... I know ... I know ...

Wmarkw

"If you want to blast music from rolled-down car windows, should this be done in a community where such behavior is normative; or would a quiet neighborhood be enriched by the diversity it brings?"

This is a very weird question. I have never thought about this before.

How are you going to reassign pepple's aparmtments according to the "normative" decibel levels of their car-radio listening?

I think this is simply nonsense. If this is the true intent of your worries, then you must have a very good life.

No religion what so ever belongs in the U.S.A. government period. We are a government of the people,by the people, and for the people ONLY. The groups that speak on political matters should file their income and pay their taxes.

Abou Ben Adhem

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An Angel writing in a book of gold:

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said,
"What writest thou?" The Vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the Angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerily still; and said, "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one who loves his fellow men."

The Angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And shoed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And, lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest!

Leigh Hunt (1784-1859)

The point about different household types living in apartments is this:

If you have two apartment buildings and half the prospective tennants are families with kids and half are young singles, would everyone be happier mixing each building 50/50 or putting each type in its own building. I suspect the singles and families would each prefer a building of their own type, since the others in their building will share common expectations of community behavior, such as what bedtime on a Friday night ought to be.

If you want to blast music from rolled-down car windows, should this be done in a community where such behavior is normative; or would a quiet neighborhood be enriched by the diversity it brings?

Abou Ben Adhem

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,
And saw, within the moonlight in his room,
Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,
An Angel writing in a book of gold:

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,
And to the Presence in the room he said,
"What writest thou?" The Vision raised its head,
And with a look made of all sweet accord
Answered, "The names of those who love the Lord."

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"
Replied the Angel. Abou spoke more low,
But cheerily still; and said, "I pray thee, then,
Write me as one who loves his fellow men."

The Angel wrote, and vanished. The next night
It came again with a great wakening light,
And shoed the names whom love of God had blessed,
And, lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest!

Leigh Hunt (1784-1859)

WmarkW

You made the following strange comment:

"Should families with small kids live in apartment buildings where young singles stay up partying at night? Should seniors live where kids ride skateboards on the same sidewalks? Of course not."

Did you really mean that?

As long as they can afford the rent or mortgage, shouldn't people live anywhere they want? Are there really places where only young singles can live, or where only young families can live? or where only old people can live?

You are overthinking things.

Perhaps you are a little misanthropic.

It would never occur to me in a million years to think the way you do.

I grew up in a small town, where all the spectrum of humanity and all classes of people lived within a few blocks of each other. (That is why we called it a small town). And at the edge of the town, the sidewalks and stores abruptly came to an end, and then you were among the country folk, who lived on farms.

I lived in the inner city of a large Southern city for about 3 years; it all seemed ok to me. In fact, I liked it, because it was not a small town. Desite the sterotypes, no one was killed or robbed in my neighgorhood when I lived there.

And now I live in the suburb of a large city. On the street where I live, there is a family from Israel, a family from Morocco, a couple of black families, a little old lady widow, a single black Mom, a single guy from Germany, several young WASP families with little kids, and ME. I have no complaints; they are all good neighbors.

Of all the "types" that live in my neighborhood, my least favorite are the WASP mothers of small children; (they can be a little bossy). But I can live with it.

Part 1 of 2:

There is a time via HOLYi-TiME to tell the Story of an American [HIDDEN] PROPHET." So, IT IS TIME exclusively on 'Onfaith.'
-
These art Excerpts from: Mar{ist College “CI{RCLE” news, “V I E W P O I N T”, pg.5, Jan.31.1985. (in .PDF, 842 Words).
--
And Now The New Song: Global-minded local action

by Harry Theriault, Ph.D., [Biomentologist]
___________________________________________

... College students and global consciousness are due to fulfill a prophecy, provided that prophecy means that by thinking globally and acting locally we, the humanity of the Earth, will be going from governament by delegation to democracy by participation.

... 1 of 2 (B)

College students and global consciousness are due to fulfill a
prophecy, provided that prophecy means that by thinking globally and acting locally we, the humanity of the Earth, will be going from governament by delegation to democracy by participation.

It is a known fact that Global Issues Courses, have begun to fascinate college students in the United States recently with the prospect of changing the world by "thinking globally, acting locally." This is because a number of publications are pioneering the way.

A major breakthrough in .this cultural direction was the First Global Conference on the Future held in Toronto, Canada at the outset of the 1980s. It was sponsored by the World Future Society (4916 St . Elmo- Ave. , Washington, D.C. 20014), out of which came the book entitled Through The 80s, Thinking Globally, Acting Locally, now being used as a college text at Empire State and other universities. Isaac Asimov and Alvin Toffler are among its authors.

With global consciousness among college students on the rise and Halley's Comet on its way to the Earth, it may well be that the second half of this Reaganomic Decade will break out into something like this. The Old Testament of the Holy Bible speaks of a "new song" that will "magnify the law, and make it honorable." (Isa. 42:10,21) The New Testament says, "They sang a new song... for the healing of the nations." (Rev. 14:3; 22:2)So IT definitely refers to a global development.

Since people feel the spiritual within them long before they become political or even entertain political thoughts, the spiritual influence is due to formulate the political outcome, provided the prophecy is' true and destined to be fulfilled in this way. However, the main complaint among the futurists who attended the Global Conference, 1980, was, "The missing ingredient" or "No vision to guide us" in terms of a framework through which to participate in the kind of democracy we need.

One of the members of the Conference submitted a paper on the theme warned in Scripture, "Where there is no vision, the people perish." (Prov. 29:18) Meanwhile, an American prisoner was trying to commit to paper the vision he had experienced along these lines, but it was so deep that it was difficult to communicate without sounding presumptuous to people who were not ready for it. Finally, during 1983, I was able to break the story of this enlighten'r down into a novelscript along with his vision; and recently it has been published.

... Part 2 of 2

.

Part 2 of 2:

Entitled Silent Thunder, it shows dramatically how - megatrends and computers, video and audio, religion and politics, economy and emotions are all headed in the cultural direction of A Synergetical world or Gridarian Democracy (people developing slowly a "grid system" worldwide).

According to this outline of the future in relation to the past, the understandings of the 1960s are very much alive in the residual culture that those beautiful and painful times produced in the parents of. today's children. As those kids come in contact with this vision and take it home to their parents, something in those parents will be consensually validated by the hope of their children.

So the next half- of the Global Eighties should have an advantage over the Tumultuous 1960s — less hostile parents toward visionary change. This will, in turn, produce a more enlightened parenthood through the children of our time themselves. So that, by the time we reach the we will have a third generation movement, backed by the residual under-standings of the 1960s. History reveals, if you study IT, that no great movements fully triumph until the residual understandings of the developing inspiration reach and root in the third generation.

I am first generation; you are second generation if you are a college student today, have been or shall be one within the same timeframe; and your children are destined to be third generation of global minded local action. The cause and effect of a legend prophesied in Scripture! Accordingly, I would suggest that anybody interested in the pros and cons of this vision should consider the published results of the Conference on the Future held at Toronto during 1980; and possibly follow it up by reading Silent Thunder (Moved to Unknown Place). By then

you will be informed enough to discuss the matter knowledgeably with others. Which could be fun. And remember, not much, if anything, is worth doing unless the doing can be fun. "Think globally, act locally, perceive newly," said one of the members of the Conference on the Future; and share this powerful learning stance with others — or perish in a visionless mess.
--
NOTE: It is rumored that upon “SHILOM“s discharge that he walked into the Holyi-PLASMA-TRICULATiON machine] and welcomed by the Immortal MECHIZEDEK (King Of Abraham, King Of Krishna et al).
-
Please Listen to the Prophecy of our O.U.R. ‘HOlyi-COsmic-FEelers-FAith’ Children [aka “EKLAH-ti-ON’ Kids] by their “SPOKEN WORD” & ways.

Enjoy. Thank You.

http://www.universetoday.com/82151/%E2%80%9Castrobiology%E2%80%9D-parody-video-of-kehas-we-r-who-we-r/

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXvmSaE0JXA&feature=player_embedded
--

PS: i[WE] will release the Entire Contents [FREELY] of Dr. H.W.T. Writings, some which was written on Toilet Paper & Smuggled-Out.

The American Constitution was written about 150 years after the Peace of Westphalia, concluded the Thirty Years War. That is about as far distant in the Founding Fathers' minds as the Civil was is to our minds. The traumatic experience of the BLOODY religous wars, which we have long forgotten, were fresh in historical memory. The Founding Fathers were well aware of what religiuos warfare had done to Europe and sought to pre-empt it in America. Of all their goals and aims, that was preobably Number One.

RCofield

Yes, immigation to New England in the early seventeenth century was partly due to the building pressures in Germany that ultimately erupted into the bloodbath known as the Thirty Years War, one of the bloodiest wars in world history, waged between the Catholics and the Protestants.

So, we do have religion to thank for emergence of America, don't we?

This is a link to Bret Stephens' enormously circulated (and circulating) WST article, "Egypt's Prison of Hate."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704735304576058382591955692.html
----------------------------------
From today's WaPo--Israel's Spying Vulture--and Killer Shark

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2011/01/israels_spying_vulture--and_ki.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Blasphemy is a term having meaning only in the world of the religiously insane.

If we hadn't freed ourselves FROM religion as much as we have in the west, in Europe, in America, we would still be burning witches and hanging apostates, just like they are in Islam today.

One particularly disgusting theme present in the western christians of today is the idea they seem to have that they aren't as evil as the muslims. Hey, you morons. you're just as evil as they are, the only difference is you don't have the absolute power the absolute truths you claim to have give you.

Freedom From Religion, we're going to disappear like neanderthal, only it won't be the climate that kills us off.

They're rehearsing some drivel about how one man's actions shouldn't reflect on 1.5 billion's.

WMW
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Introspection is not their forte in islamic world. They come up with unimaginable excuses and they have made a science of dodging any and all specific questions. Not only that they demand respect for their vile, grotesque, superstition.

Where are the great islamist bloggers, Yasser, Jihadist, asizk, bloggerville, kok1, on the assassination of the governor of seceded punjab?
----------------------------------------
They're rehearsing some drivel about how one man's actions shouldn't reflect on 1.5 billion's.

Of course, most Southern Whites of 50-100 years ago, never lynched an African-American either.

Where are the great islamist bloggers, Yasser, Jihadist, asizk, bloggerville, kok1, on the assassination of the governor of seceded punjab?

Yes, that is an insane fact.

Sane historians are aware that there was no religious impetus for the American Revolution. Religous freedom was not a reason for creating the United States; it was mostly about taxes.

In fact, the founding fathers were pretty clear about their desire for freedom FROM religion.

RCOFIELD wrote:

"Susan titles her blog:
Without secular government, there is no religious freedom.

Here is an insane point of historical fact: If it were not for the pursuit of religious freedom we would not have the "secular" government we now have in this country.
Yea, there probably wouldn't even be a United States"

Latest from Pakistan (via the Main Page):

Official: Pakistani suspect earlier labeled 'risk'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/05/AR2011010500341.html
ISLAMABAD -- A top aide to Pakistan's president says the bodyguard suspected of killing a governor had been labeled a security risk months before by the police department he worked for. Faisal Raza Abdi says the Punjab province police's assessment of Mumtaz Qadri states he should not be deployed to protect high-profile figures because of his "extremist views."

Meanwhile, many Pakistanis apparently don't see what the big deal is:
Lawyers showered the suspected killer of a prominent Pakistani governor with rose petals when he arrived at court Wednesday and an influential Muslim scholars group praised the assassination of the outspoken opponent of laws that order death for those who insult Islam.

--------------------------------------

You know, Ronald Reagan was extremely unpopular among a large swath of America, but I don't remember a John Hinckley Fan Club ever getting off the ground.

Susan titles her blog:

Without secular government, there is no religious freedom.

Here is an insane point of historical fact: If it were not for the pursuit of religious freedom we would not have the "secular" government we now have in this country.

Yea, there probably wouldn't even be a United States of America.

Punjab Gov. Taseer was shot dead, shot twenty-six times by one of his bodyguards as the remainder stood back and watched.

The murderer stated that he was acting in protest against Gov. Taseer's opposition to the blasphemy law and advocacy for a Christian mother of three children, condemned to death for blasphemy on hearsay evidence.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/pakistani-governor-shot-dead-bodyguard/story?id=12539640

The point that you repeatedly hint at is that white people are Americans, and non-white people don't count, or shouldn't count.
----------------------------------------
Not at all.

To the extent there's sufficient population to support it, everyone should live in a community that reflects their own culture and values. Should families with small kids live in apartment buildings where young singles stay up partying at night? Should seniors live where kids ride skateboards on the same sidewalks? Of course not.

Is there a reason my white-Asian family should live where people say "mofo" every other sentence, blast rap music from rolled-down car windows or hold dope-smoking parties in their apartments? That's what my old neighborhood was like.

But in America, the only way to stratify a neighborhood is economically. So we pay much more than we should, to live around people who act like us, since the idiotic doctrine of multiculturalism says we should feel enriched by the diversity of the above.

WmarkW

The point that you repeatedly hint at is that white people are Americans, and non-white people don't count, or shouldn't count.

But how do you arrive at that?

I count them.

America's need for petroleum is a direct result of our multi-cultural society and the fact that we don't recognize any way around it except spatial-economic stratification.

Posted by: WmarkW
---------------------------
Remember 9/11?

"What will it take for us to demand that the oil and geopolitical interests of a few take a backseat to human rights?"

To Americans, the (economically viable) availability of petroleum IS a human rights issue. It's what allows my family to live in a pleasant, safe neighborhood 25 miles from my employment, instead of the semi-slums surrounding it.

America's need for petroleum is a direct result of our multi-cultural society and the fact that we don't recognize any way around it except spatial-economic stratification.

I have blogged so many times about the imperiled Christians, imperiled in fifty countries that I am exhausted. There is nothing new here except, perhaps, that more died than usual.

Christians have been pleading for help in FIFTY COUNTRIES. They cannot hold office n Egypt, are subject to periodic pogroms, etc. have always feared that these Christians will go the way of the ME and African Jews.

Ignored, on their own. About twelve years ago in the midst of attacks against the few Jews in Iran, the interfaith organization I work with asked me what I expected when my pleas on behalf of Christians fell on deaf ears in the US, a Christian nation.

What will it take for us to demand that the oil and geopolitical interests of a few take a backseat to human rights?

And keep this in mind: the issue is not Christians. It is minorities. I know. Indeed, I do.

Excellent article Ms. Jacoby. This has made my whole body tingle reading about the Egyptian Mr. Hani Shukrallah and also about that noble French man Zola. I also wonder how long Mr. Shukrallah will be free to go about his business, before Mubrak's thugs can get to him or if not the bigots among the Egyptians will get to him. As Dawkins, Harris, & Hitchens rightly accuse the moderates as the enablers, I share theirs & yours, opinions about about the so called moderates - who are only practicing Taqiyah. The western multi-culturalists are just the useful toads and fools in the global Taqiyah.

Some of the UK's religious implementations, though, do have anti-secular consequences.

When the British Humanist Association ran a bus-ad campaign, they had to insert a qualifier into their godless statement:
“There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/atheist.bus.ads.say.probably.no.god/22249.htm

But the Christian Party was permitted to substitute the word "definitely" int the opposite statement: “There definitely is a God. So join the Christian Party and enjoy your life”

http://www.atheistbus.org.uk/

This is what happens when you don't have a First Amendment requiring vote-conscious politicians to obey a law superior to public opinion.

I think that it goes without saying that that the United Kingdom is a liberal, secular parlimentary democracy, which maintains some feudal customs in its government, for cermonial purposes, and because no one has ever gotten around to revoking them, and which are now seen as quaint, and valuable for purposes of historical antiquity.

The British monarch is the head of the Church of England, and therefore, must implicitly be, Anglican. Though I may be wrong, I do not believe that there is any such requirement for the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister had his whole life to convert to Catholicism before becoming Prime Minister. I believe the timing of the conversion had to do with his developing life experiences and thoughts about religion. When he did convert, I do not believe that there was any fuss or bother over it.

The headline of this essay is "Without secular government, there is no religious freedom."

Not to be nit-picky, but this argument might be circular and tautological, in that secular government means one that tolerates all religions. One example of a non-secular government, in the strictest sense, is the United Kingdom, which still has a national church over which its head of state is also in charge; and whose last outgoing Prime Minister had to wait until he left office to convert to his religion of choice.

Obviously, that's a long way from non-secular Pakistan, to say nothing of Saudi Arabia.