'Praying Parents' Put School in Legal Limbo

You can't blame Iran if they claim that America is the Great Satan.

The fact is God will allow idiotic countries to be great to partly destroy the fools in America.

Nothing can stop Doomsday.

In some parts of America, they don't like the idea that God bless their place. Don't worry cause God is very easy to talk to.

What He doesn't bless, HE DESTROYS.

I do have a problem with parents inserting themselves into the equation to make a statement. Let kids be kids, and express themselves any way they want. They don't need their parents trying to turn a school into a religious experience.

On a broader note, though, I think this sort of stink is over-covered by the media. It should be a non-issue. Last time I checked, the 1st amendment guaranteed freedom OF religion. This school seems to believe that it really meant freedom FROM religion. I think people are going overboard trying to remove religion from public view. The idea that people must be shielded from any exposure to religion is clearly not what the founding fathers intended. I'm relieved to read of many atheists who have no problem with public displays of faith. It's not their cup of tea, but they acknowledge the rights of others to engage in it.

I think people should get their heads out of their butts and make a better effort to coexist with the beliefs of others. As long as the beliefs of some aren't oppressing others, so what if people want to acknowledge God in public? I'm a Christian, but I think Muslims, Hindus, Jews and everyone else, including atheists, have a right to express their views publicly, and I certainly don't feel like I need to be shielded from their views.

It would be interesting to know how the school and the Praying Parents handled (or would handle if it arose) references to praying to Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or, for that matter, Satan. Would you allow posters asking for blessings from each of these on the walls of your school? We're talking about freedom of religion, right?

I went to school in the era when prayer was allowed in school. It was a small community in Mid-Missouri. The teacher had each of us take turn saying "grace" prior to lunch. There was only one Catholic in the classroom, and when it came time for her to say "grace" she used the traditional Catholic prayer ... and after she finished her prayer, the teacher never failed to make fun of her words and the "sign of the cross" that the student followed her prayer with. Even then as a 5th grade student, I knew that teachers were not qualified to deal with religion in schools as their prejudice for their own religion or lack of it, would offend someone. I believe that if prayer is prominent in the home, it is not necessary for it to be part of the classroom. And when it is, often, it is not prayer but a political statement.

Spidermean:
"Don't worry cause God is very easy to talk to.
What He doesn't bless, HE DESTROYS"

Wow, how compassionate, something to really aspire to.

Chops2 - Ignore Spidey, I've become certain he's actually a militant atheist in disguise blogging as a militant Xtian, to attempt to discredit Xtianity in general. He really is as unpleasant and judgemental as Xtianity gets.

That beig said, Xtianity has NO business in schools, and neither does Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, satanism etc. Xtians seem to be the only ones having trouble accepting it however.

Spiderman2 says "What He doesn't bless, HE DESTROYS". I say Prove it! You haven't read a history book lately, have you? China, Japan, Iran, Turkey has been around a long time. I don't think its because they believe in your version of God as you seem to think. Does your statement only apply to Western Countries?

paris1969 wrote: "I believe that if prayer is prominent in the home, it is not necessary for it to be part of the classroom. And when it is, often, it is not prayer but a political statement."

Amen - it seems pretty clear to me that the parents at this school are trying to make a public - political point - and involving their kids in the controversy. IMHO, the parents' time would be better spent helping their kids with their homework, volunteering to coach the kids' soccer/baseball/swim team, or getting involved with other families and kids at their own churches. Some people just aren't happy unless they're causing trouble where it really isn't needed; we've had some of those in our neighborhood, and boy are they tiresome and tedious to be around.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the First Amendment guarantee of freedom OF religion encompasses freedom FROM religion as well. Freedom of religion is an absolute right and the government must remain neutral on the issue.

Since public schools are government institutions, no one's religion (or lack thereof) can be favored over another's. Schools need to stay out of the religion business.

Isn't church enough for these so-called "prayer parents"? Why does their child's public school have to become their second church? Are these people completely insensitive to the fact that not everyone wants to share their religious views? Simply put, what is wrong with these people?

I feel saddened that the right to faith, religion and showing it, as we have a right to in a nation that is supposed to be free....is under attack all the time these days. Once it would have been very wrong of anyone to be so blatant against faith, for this nation was founded on it! All the people did was place posters to invite those that do believe to an activity....I think those who do not believe must be uncomfortable with themselves to object to something that is good!! If we have to tolerate yours, you have to tolerate ours...that's freedoms way and always has been since this nation began. All this political correctness nonsense is ruining the freedom of America! Get over yourselves and know that no matter what there are consequences to what everyone believes, good, bad, or indifferent. God is, and those that are trying to remove Him from everything; will one day know exactly what it means to turn your back on good! Such intolerance of faith is the work of the devil and the reason this nation is going down fast and suffering under the burden of all the evil that has taken place. We once were a great nation with honor, patriotism, faith, strength and good people: now we are a greedy, whining, lost bunch of messed up people searching for any sort of past time to ease the pain of not believing in anything. There are a great many in this nation who do believe in God, Country, Honor and that if we stand up and fight this nonsense peacefully but clearly, we can be a great Nation again. GOD BLESS AMERICA ONCE AGAIN!!

I feel saddened that the right to faith, religion and showing it, as we have a right to in a nation that is supposed to be free....is under attack all the time these days. Once it would have been very wrong of anyone to be so blatant against faith, for this nation was founded on it! All the people did was place posters to invite those that do believe to an activity....I think those who do not believe must be uncomfortable with themselves to object to something that is good!! If we have to tolerate yours, you have to tolerate ours...that's freedoms way and always has been since this nation began. All this political correctness nonsense is ruining the freedom of America! Get over yourselves and know that no matter what there are consequences to what everyone believes, good, bad, or indifferent. God is, and those that are trying to remove Him from everything; will one day know exactly what it means to turn your back on good! Such intolerance of faith is the work of the devil and the reason this nation is going down fast and suffering under the burden of all the evil that has taken place. We once were a great nation with honor, patriotism, faith, strength and good people: now we are a greedy, whining, lost bunch of messed up people searching for any sort of past time to ease the pain of not believing in anything. There are a great many in this nation who do believe in God, Country, Honor and that if we stand up and fight this nonsense peacefully but clearly, we can be a great Nation again. GOD BLESS AMERICA ONCE AGAIN!!

A point here regarding schools, under God, and so forth that has crept into just about every corner of American society.

I am a native American, raised in the combination of Traditional native, and Buddhist-Hindu teachings. My 'Gods' are Tanaka - the sky father, Quan Yin - a Female, Krisna, and Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

All of these 'deities' are recognized as legitimate, yet the U.S. Government chooses not to recognize any. The god concept the U.S. Government does choose to venerate as found in the pledge of allegiance, is diametrically opposed to what my deities represent.

Please stop pushing your Christian opinion of a god upon other people. Uphold the constitutional rights of the individual.

The First Ammendment means that the government should lay off their hands concerning religion.

The school has no right to restrict the student on what he wants to express about his/her God.

It is high time that Christians start suing government schools so they'll grow up.

Let the First Ammendment function on what it was designed for.

GOD BLESS AMERICA and no idiotic government school can stop a student from expressing that coz that is the law.

"The god concept the U.S. Government does choose to venerate as found in the pledge of allegiance, is diametrically opposed to what my deities represent. "

It's because your idiotic dieties promote the concept of Dalits or the "untouchables".

This nation is the Land of the Free and NOT the land of class A and class D where class D cannot be class A. Stupid.

shortimer831 wrote "I say Prove it! "

Don't be impatient. It will come very soon. Just wait. Nukes that are stationed around the world were made for a reason.

If Japan has nukes during WW2, they would have used it.

This world is doomed according to the Bible. What is fearsome is that the Bible don't miss in its prophecies.

Neochristians only have themselves to thank for this ridiculous situation as a backlash against their trying to shove their twisted idea of "God's standards" down the rest of our throats through the immoral and criminal Cheney theocracy for the last eight years.

Let's call this what this is. It's a bunch of parents selfishly using their kids to try to pick a fight with the local school system.

Christians are hardly being persecuted here. They control all three branches of government. They are by far the dominant religion in the land.

So why the constant insecurity? Why do some (but admittedly not all) Christians feel they must go out and do things like this, just to provoke controversy and faux persecution?

Really, folks. Give it a rest. Your kids would be much better served if you would volunteer your time to help them or other students with their homework, to volunteer in a local food bank, etc.

In other words, grow up and stop trying to pick fights using your kids as unwitting surrogates.

There is nothing wrong with prayer! Period. Stopping for a moment to reflect that maybe, just maybe we are not alone in this universe is not a bad thing. All major religions acknowledge a supreme being. This country was founded on the freedom to worship any thing you want, as long as you don' try to impose your beliefs on mine

WAKE UP AMERICA!

My daughters came home from school one day up set that their teacher had taken them to one of these pole events. I went to the princepal and explained that worshipping a national god (notice it is always God Bless America, not the world) which violates the first of the ten commandments and that if it happened again I would sue and give the money to charity. It did not happen again, but I never got cooeration from the administration again when dealing with other matters. I am a Christian..I can't imagine what a nonChristian parent would face.
If persons believe the school needs prayer they can do it at home or in their place of worship,this kind of stuff needs to stop.

The truth is that Christian theology, like every other theology, is not only opposed to the scientific spirit; it is also opposed to all other attempts at rational thinking. Not by accident does Genesis 3 make the father of knowledge a serpent -- slimy, sneaking and abominable. Since the earliest days the church, as an organization, has thrown itself violently against every effort to liberate the body and mind of man. It has been, at all times and everywhere, the habitual and incorrigible defender of bad governments, bad laws, bad social theories, bad institutions. It was, for centuries, an apologist for slavery, as it was the apologist for the divine right of kings.
-- H L Mencken, Treatise on the Gods

Having been a WWII GI, a civilian/military on three foreign continents and inside the Beltway, a graduate from a state university, my teaching and learning is that this Nation was founded based on a Christian (Catholic/Protestant - however secular) culture. That was the way it was when attending public school, high school, the Army and the University of Maryland. Our Constitutional and legal system has gooten totally off-track. We are a Nation based on Christian culture and that is worth defending, fighting for, and protecting. No wonder we have a lousy culture, rampant greed, mindless 'consumerism' - all because we have an "anything goes' Constitutional mess and a convoluted legal system. Kate Smith sang "God Bless America". It should be our national anthem as once proposed.

Another morning, another On Faith presentation in the Post and yet another visit by spiderman2, or is it spidermean2?
Whatever happened to spidermean1? Was he any less understandable and fanatical than the new, improved version?
Anyhow, we are treated this morning to another series of rants by someone representing the perfect religion--out of 10,000 other "perfect" religions.
A few questions, spidermean2, if you can spare the time to impart your perfect vision of Christianity . . .
Have you ever thumbed through a book on comparative religion and noticed that since the dawn of written history there have been on the order of 10,000 gods invented in the minds of men? What does this FACT suggest to you? If the vast majority of these gods are no longer with us, where did they go? Are they in limbo waiting for the day that THEY will be resurrected and assume the role that your god presently occupies?
An inquiring mind would like to know.

hyjanks, just read the Bible and if you are "lucky enough" to understand it, you would realize that the world events happening now were already written more than 2000 years ago at the least.

No other gods can match that. THey are way off the course. Bogey in golf.

There was no reference to God as in In God We Trust on the currency until 1883 and that phrase was put on the currency by backdoor fiat with no open debate. The Pledge of Allegiance, written by a Socialist, did not have the phrase "One Nation Under God" until 1954 put in during McCarthy times to ferret out Commies under the theory that atheistic Commies would never say the words and thus could be identified.

Bottom line is that freedom OF religion, implies, even demands, freedom FROM religion. If you look in history, more supposed Christians have been killed by other supposed Christians than by non-Christians. Ths ame applies to many other faiths that kill their own more than supposed infidels.

And if we had saya "Christian" America, which flavor would it be? Of the some 635 visible denominations of Christianity, many if not all believe the others, not like themselves, are fakes and worse--doomed to hell. The same for Judaism, Islam and other faiths with major denominational breaches within them.

Why does children's art, fantasies, wishes have to be politicized? If johnny wants to say "God Bless America-let him!! and if Muhammed wants to say "Alah loves us!!" let him and if Jessica wants to say "I" Bless America- let her!!!....Our freedoms should not be legislated a way. This is a slippery slope, in this fearful, politically correct, easily offended, "my rights are more important than your rights" day and age!!

As a teacher, I have never felt the need to keep students from praying. And yes, Christian students have a right to "meet at the pole" and pray to Jesus during non-school time.

I wonder, however, if the students who do that have thought about what Jesus would say about the way that such activities make the students who adhere to other religions or to no religion feel like outsiders in a place where all are supposed to feel welcome.

spidermean2 wrote:

> The First Ammendment means that the government should
> lay off their hands concerning religion.

> The school has no right to restrict the student
> on what he wants to express about his/her God.

So let me understand this Spidey .. it is ok with you is Satanist perform symbolic ritual sacrifice in your public schools before assemblys and post children's picutres on the walls the the hallways with slogans such as 'Satan Rules' and 'Satan Curse America'

That ok with you .. or is it only ok if it is YOUR god?

It is high time that Christians start suing government schools so they'll grow up.

Yep, standard technique to attempt to legally bludgeon local governments into promoting THEIR religion .. after all THEIR god is bigger than YOUR god .. of course they will never acknowledge the existence of YOUR god since they are devinely right .. of course no one has bother to tell all the million and millions of Hindu's in India that they are godless .. poor heathens .. I am sure that THEIR god will damn them all to Hell.

Christians affecting the manners of a persecuted minority is obscene.

I have never met a christian, jew or muslim who could give any real proof that some god existed. So to say god bless america is really saying Nothing bless america....not very patriotic. It would be far better to say We bless america since we know that we exist. In god we trust should be In us we trust. Otherwise, one could say In zeus or apollo or santa claus or pan we trust. Mythology is fine for reading fictions....but to adhere to a mythology as truth is at best an intellectual flaw. Ironically, after several requests for a proof of god, I have received no responses. Methinks the believers doth protest too much!

There is a difference between practicing your religion within your faith congregation and pushing it on others especially in the public sphere. Notice that it is only the Christians in this country who are pushing their religion on others in the public sphere. All the others including atheists keep to themselves unless provoked. Stopping religious domination in the public sphere does not in anyway stop private beliefs or assembly in the appropriate settings. Your right to exercise your religion (or anything else for that matter) ends where my right to exercise my religion (or lack thereof) begins. The only way to do this is for the government to stay neutral. "Congress shall make no law RESPECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT of religion....". Note that ESTABLISHMENT is used here as a noun which is the object of the verb RESPECTING. The clue here is the word AN instead of THE before the word ESTABLISHMENT. It is not a verb and has nothing to do with ESTABLISHING a religion. Translated into modern colloquial usage, it would read: Congress shall not make laws favoring any religious establishment, organization or institution. Note that organization and institution can also be used both as verbs or nouns depending on sentence structure.

religion is under represented in Amerika? who are you kidding? [except perhaps yourself]

As a Christian myself, I am astonished at the number of Christians who do not obey Jesus' direct command: " When you pray, go into a closet (private place) and pray to your God in secret, and the God who hears you in secret will reward you. As for those who have prayed before others, they have their reward". Jesus does not issue brownie points for pietists flaunting their religiosity, and on the contrary says God will not look kindly on this. Especially in a culture where Christianity is the dominant religion, we have no need to force ourselves on the attention of others to prove how "Godly" we are.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:" (Matthew 24:22)

This is the result of the crooked school policies America has been doing. Unlike during WW2, NOT all of America will be blessed or protected. Major portions of it will be DESTROYED.

" Is it ok for a student to write 'Satan curse America' and still be protected by the First Ammendment? "

Yes because that it the law. Those school authorities were breaking the law and they should be penalized. This is what makes America great. It's called FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE.

The school authorities may investigate but not censor the words. Check the background why he wrote those words. Chances are he is an abused child like almost all Satanists are.

Or his parents are potential terrorists.

I went to school in the era when prayer was allowed in school. It was a small community in Mid-Missouri. The teacher had each of us take turn saying "grace" prior to lunch. There was only one Catholic in the classroom, and when it came time for her to say "grace" she used the traditional Catholic prayer ... and after she finished her prayer, the teacher never failed to make fun of her words and the "sign of the cross" that the student followed her prayer with. Even then as a 5th grade student, I knew that teachers were not qualified to deal with religion in schools as their prejudice for their own religion or lack of it, would offend someone. I believe that if prayer is prominent in the home, it is not necessary for it to be part of the classroom. And when it is, often, it is not prayer but a political statement.

I think this post says it best.

As for that teacher, he/she was not living Christian values. That teacher had no right to ridicule a student just because words in a prayer and the making of the sign of the cross were a bit different than what is done in Protestant dominations. That teacher should have been severely reprimanded. The teacher and the Catholic student were both "Christians," with the teacher setting a very bad example. Just what would Jesus have said to the teacher? My opinion is that the teacher was nothing but a hypocrite, a Christian in name only.

I see no reason why parents cannot have their children pray at home. What does a prayer in school really accomplish other than raise conflict?

Given all the various religions in this country now, I don't see how the schools could ever satisfy everyone. I do not believe all these parents really care. All they want to do is stir up trouble. If they really were Christian, they might live the values in their everyday lives rather than wearing their "Christianity" on their sleeves.

Intellectual honesty is the hall mark of Christianity.This author is not Christian.
1)This effort is not student led,but parent led by Mrs.Walker,assisted by Mr and Mrd Gold and other parent/ Petitioner's.He could only have missed this crucial point if he did not read the Plaintiff's motion,or worse,fudged the facts.
2) The author unkindly slaps at the judge, and then embarassing himself with a silly counter-'argument',to wit: "...the judge might explain why some parents ,schools and government think it ok to protect their beliefs , but not the beliefs of others..."
This is not what this case is about at all, and this intentionally or grossly inaccurate simulacrum is more than distrubing.
Please hit the link and read the pleadings, you do a disservice to your readers.
The public school has a policy which is silent about religion,"during instructional hours"
After which, the witches and goblins are permitted to use the facility, and hang their posters and meetings etc.
Some parents , with strong support from organized religion, won't let this rest until religion is taught in the classromm and the building is festooned with banners to ALLAH and Jehoveh.
Religion needs to be PRACTICED not taught to have any value. The practice of religion is best done at home and in designated places of worship.

Non Indigenous people suffer from the inability to think beyond their programming. If one is to have a slogan, it should be One nation under GODS. The majority of Americans worship money. As for god bless America, why should he or she? Are these students so lacking in intelligence that they don't know how to pray without being in a group? Do they practice anything near to what they say they believe. Hardly, they all carry ipods, MP3's, cell phones, all items which destroy lives through the enslaved working in mines for the raw materials. Do they stop buying goods because they were made by the enslaved? NO

FredEvil:
I'm with u mate, I've often thought Spidey is an athiest just taking the piss out of this whole site.

This country is founded on the Christian faith. This country will not survive with out God. Look at the Nations that came against Israel in Biblical times. I'm believing for our nation to come back to God like Jonah when he witnessed to Nineveh. When Nineveh repented God spared the citizens.

As an Atheist I am offended by the phrase "God Bless America". Why? because the intent behind using is to denigrate non-Christians and paint them as 2nd class citizens as if being Christian makes one a better citizen. It's kind of like saying "God Bless White people". It also pushes that tired old myth that the US is based on "Christian values" when in fact our founders were largely Deist - and our law is based on English Common law. That is why every time I see that phrase in public, I remove it, deface it or rip it up. I blot out "In God" on all money I spend and make sure the ink is fresh. I have been doing this for years and I have removed a LOT of propaganda and every time I do no one seems to miss it. So, go ahead, post your arrogant "God Bless" what-evers - I'll just remove them. Have a nice day.

Fredevil & Chops2 - I can't speak for Atheists as a group, but Atheists don't need to pretend to be Christian zealots to discredit the faith, there are hoards of them doing just that all the time. You guys are just Christians trying to make Atheists look bad. See how that works?

Agelpoo12 wrote: "When Nineveh repented God spared the citizens."

Oh yeah? And what is Niniveh today? A pile of rubble. Doesn't sound as if it was spared. What a load of religious crap. I defecate on "god."

I'm-not-a-christian,but-what-expertise-on-religion-does-Sally-Quinn-have?
Just-the-last-sentence:
"In other words, children, when your parents try to turn your schools into churches, they put you and your teachers in a very difficult position",shows-the-bias-Quinn-has-against-the-first-amendment.Quinn-would-like-to-send-christians,or-anybody
else-who-disagrees-with-her-views,to-re-education-camps.
Do-you-know-what-the-second-amendment-is-for?
Its-for-protecting-the-first.Got-Ammo?

I just hope that when those kids misbehave - as all children do from time to time - that the good Christian parents

STONE THEM TO DEATH

just as the "Lord" clearly commands them to in Deuteronomy 21:18-21.

Really people, it's the 21st century. Can we move on past our trembling fear of the Great Volcano Spirit into something at least resembling modernity? We're fighting this sort of superstitious nonsense in Afghanistan. Please honor our troops. Just say no to fundamentalism here at home too.

Paris1969 (9:34 PM), you hit the nail on the head with your post. Sadly, most of today's conservative "Christians" (I use the term loosely as their political beliefs are in direct opposition to everything Jesus preached) are just as backward as they were in Missouri a generation ago. It is worst in the areas where they are in great majority. They become as arrogant as they are ignorant there.

They are as much an embarrassment to our country as the militant Islamic types are in modernized Arab countries. Too bad we can't strand the whole lot of both these types of people on a desert island together, because they are soul mates.

".. founded on Christian values .."
Actually the United States was founded on using Christian values as justification to slaughter the indigenous population and steal its land, and to then enslave an entire continent to farm it. But you are right, because that is another way to spell Christianity.

I've been teaching since 1973. Parents, not self-described "professionals," and certainly not the government, have the right and the duty to observe and, through local school boards (the more local, the better) to run the schools.

If you want to ban "religion" from the schools, then you can't teach history (unless it's the "hate Christianity" kind), you can't teach social studies, you can't even read the Declaration of Independence (which is now illegal in some New Jersey schools).

Why? Because one of its "self-evident" truths (on which our liberties are founded, without which we have no liberties) is that "all men are created," and that we are "endowed by our Creator" with certain rights.

No Creator, no rights. Including the right, apparently, to learn the truth, or even mention it, in government schools.

aredant wrote "As an Atheist I am offended by the phrase "God Bless America". That is why every time I see that phrase in public, I remove it, deface it or rip it up. I blot out "In God" on all money I spend and make sure the ink is fresh. I have been doing this for years "

As I've said, atheism is stupidity. The guy was even proud of defacing the American money.

As I often say also, idiots are dangerous and destructive.

I can give this guy 13 to 20 billion years (which is the assumed age of the universe) to live and yet he won't be able to recreate a single grass leaf.

Ask him why is that? His conclusion would be that the brainless earth is more intelligent than him.

"The fool hath said in his heart : there is no God".

What a fool.

chrisinwien says that if you ban religion from schools then "you can't teach history." I could still teach it. Pointing out the evils, oppression and destruction performed by men acting in "the name of Christ," is not an expression of hate toward christianity or christians. I've often heard it said that if man does not use history as a means to learn from his mistakes, then he is doomed to repeat those mistakes. If man cannot teach history without a non-christian bias, then he is not teaching history, he is teaching christian religion. It is that simple. I'd say chrisinwien is ill-suited to teach history, unless it is strictly history as part of a christian brain-washing process, that is religion. Many christians claim that America will be destroyed if you remove the christian god element. Actually, America won't be destroyed, just America as it currently exists. This leaves the possibility of a different and better America, but the churches don't quite see it that way.

In my last I said: "If man cannot teach history without a non-christian bias,..." I meant to say "without a christian bias..." Excuse me.

"For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee."

After the destruction, I guess America will be sane again.

Iowalad wrote: "We are a Nation based on Christian culture and that is worth defending, fighting for, and protecting.... Kate Smith sang "God Bless America". It should be our national anthem as once proposed."

You might be interested to learn that "God Bless America" was written by Irving Berlin, a Russian immigrant who was born Jewish and gradually became an atheist. He was, however, a great songwriter and a very patriotic American.

The wise man in his brain says there are no gods.

No Zeus, no Apollo, no Aphrodite, no Wotan, no Rama, no Shiva, no Thor.

Gods are for the fearful the ignorant and those indoctrinated in childhood.

If we value reality - we should stop teaching our children absurd notions of skygods and demons.
They could all end up as sick as Spidey.

Why are Christians so intent on imposing their religion on others? Why do they insist on public prayer? Are they hoping their public displays will prove to their God that they are pious and therefore deserving of the rapture? They are as bad as the Taliban!

As Bill Maher says: Religion must die so that mankind can live. A religion whose members are fixated on the coming Armageddon, who have little interest in the future because they think mankind will be destroyed and are hoping that it will happen in their lifetime have no incentive to work for a better life for mankind. Better they should all just commit suicide right now so the rest of us can get on with our lives without their petty and ruinious interference in our public and private lives.

To spidermean: it's perfectly OK for you to consider atheists fools, just as some readers of this group might happen to consider you a fool. What is NOT OK is for you to attempt to impose your own religious beliefs on others in a public place. Freedom of belief is one of the ground rules of our great nation -- live with it or leave...

truepatriot2:

"I feel saddened that the right to faith, religion and showing it, as we have a right to in a nation that is supposed to be free....is under attack all the time these days."

Bullsh*t.

No "right" is under attack.

Idiots that want to shove their flavor of belief in everyone else's face might be... and that is the reward for the sin of pride.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Govt can't stop people from sharing their faith and can't stop those that don't want to agree to agree to that faith.

As for Bill Maher, he's a hateful, cynical, negative person that can't see the light of day.

By the way, many believers that understand the end times don't "HOPE" for armegeddon, but just know it will probably happen someday, perhaps tomorrow(doubtful) or 1000 years from now. Christians know to live their lives day by day and to love others while waiting..... and working... and paying bills.... and having families.... and doing all the things that people do. They know that loving others and God are the two most imp. things to execute in this life.

As for the last poster, go cry. My telling you about the gospel isn't going to hurt you one bit.

I have never seen a more whiners than the ones here that falsely think if someone tells them or communicates to them about Jesus, its a personal affront. Get a grip.

Every time I see a note like MIM110's. which begins "When I was going to school," -- I only would appreciate it if that person would check his facts about what else was going on around him at that time. When I myself was going to elementary and junior high school in the fifties, black people were legally second-class citizens. The country was experiencing a "Communist under every bed" scare. And if kids were of Jewish, Muslim, or other faiths they just were audiences to the country's majority religion's prayer in school.
One other commenter said that it doesn't hurt someone to have him tell them (proselytize) about the Gospel. Would you like it if someone you didn't know approached you to proselytize about his non-Christian faith? Although Christianity is only one of the world's great religions, and one of the three "religions of the book", it appears that many fundamentalist Christians do not respect this fact.

Counterww:
"My telling you about the gospel isn't going to hurt you one bit."

And if you do, my telling you that you that you are totally full of sh*t isn't going to hurt you one bit either. Shoving your personal beliefs in someones face unsolicited is always a personal affront. Wake up, you can't have it both ways.

There is no longer any such thing as Freedom of Speech in America. If you happen to believe one religion over another, you have to keep your mouth shut about it in public. You can't tell any kind of joke about any ethnic group; only about blonds and lawyers (until a few blonds get around to suing th government for allowing them to be offended.) Freedom of Speech has always offended. There's no way to get around that. That's why Freedom of Speech is one of the first things to be oppressed in a dictatorship. They shut down the radios, television stations, newspapers and magazines that might offend the dictator or his minions. That's why George Bush did everything he did under the secrecy of "executive privilege" or "national security." Since it didn't have to withstand the light of public view and comments, Bush could and did do everything he could to run this country under a tyrannical regime.

So a Christian child put up a poster. Why couldn't the Islamic child or the Jewish child or the Atheist child put up a poster of his own? Why not teach the children to appreciate diversity instead of to fear oppression?

There is no longer any such thing as Freedom of Speech in America. If you happen to believe one religion over another, you have to keep your mouth shut about it in public. You can't tell any kind of joke about any ethnic group; only about blonds and lawyers (until a few blonds get around to suing th government for allowing them to be offended.) Freedom of Speech has always offended. There's no way to get around that. That's why Freedom of Speech is one of the first things to be oppressed in a dictatorship. They shut down the radios, television stations, newspapers and magazines that might offend the dictator or his minions. That's why George Bush did everything he did under the secrecy of "executive privilege" or "national security." Since it didn't have to withstand the light of public view and comments, Bush could and did do everything he could to run this country under a tyrannical regime.

So a Christian child put up a poster. Why couldn't the Islamic child or the Jewish child or the Atheist child put up a poster of his own? Why not teach the children to appreciate diversity instead of to fear oppression? People who share their religious views are not any more idiotic than people who share their religious views. Both engender violent opposition, sometimes, but Freedom of Speech does that. My right to speak my mind and your right to speak your mind does not give either of us license to call each other names or to curse each other or to punch each other in the nose. But it does give us the right to disagree, in public, about whatever views we choose to disagree about.

Kaelinda1:
"So a Christian child put up a poster. Why couldn't the Islamic child or the Jewish child or the Atheist child put up a poster of his own? Why not teach the children to appreciate diversity instead of to fear oppression?"

These are reasonable questions, and the outcome of teaching children to appreciate diversity instead of fear of oppression is one I endorse.

The rub comes when anyone that holds one of those beliefs thinks their belief is THE TRUTH, or IS A FACT. For example, if you were taught to believe that "X religion" is the one true religion and all unbelievers are condemned, appreciation of diversity from or to any quarter is unlikely, and conflict or discrimination becomes very likely.

There is a big difference between oppression and facilitating civil order. Outlawing religion would be oppressive, insisting religious belief be clearly separated from the instruments of common interest is not.

I am an atheist (unlike the poster that felt it was necessary to Capitalize the word, as if it was a religion itself). As such, I don't particulary care of a kid wants to express their personal beliefs in god on a poster, any more than I care about "in god we trust" being on our money, or a nativity scene in front of city hall. If he/she wants to believe that "god blesses America", I'm fine with it. I can ignore it; the 1st Amendment allows the freedom of expression and I don't have to pay attention if I don't want to. What bugs me, however, is atheists that feel the need to impose their purported "non-belief" on others with the legal system; here in NJ I've always been able to say "no thank you" to the Jehovah's Witnesses that come to call, and they politely move on. Where are you people living where Christians are oppressing you?

How can anyone censor some kids' beliefs at a public school? No more can you do this than you might censor someone for espousing gay rights or rights of minorities. Teachers' jobs are to teach kids about secular, non-controversial subjects, not to tell them what or what not to believe. All this censorship is contradictory.

Further, people here like "plaza04433" telling others their beliefs are "sh*t" deserve to be treated with equal disrespect. With such actions, they automatically forefeit all privilege to be included in reasoned dialogue.

A pastor was just shot dead in Illinois. I told you these guys (atheists) are dangerous. Maybe the police should look who this poster "aredant" is. These guys are potential terrorists.

Don't you guys understand? It is already written in the Bible that Doomsday is coming. You guys can't stop it even you will kill all the preachers and all Christians around.

The should save the killer's life or else the guy will forever fry in hell. What a pity.

What the killer doesn't realize is that the killed pastor is having a great day with the Lord now.

A pastor was just shot dead in Illinois. I told you these guys (atheists) are dangerous. Maybe the police should look who this poster "aredant" is. These guys are potential terrorists.

Don't you guys understand? It is already written in the Bible that Doomsday is coming. You guys can't stop it even if you will kill all the preachers and all Christians around.

They (the doctors) should save the killer's life or else the guy will forever fry in hell. What a pity.

What the killer doesn't realize is that the killed pastor is having a great day with the Lord now.

KAELINDA1 complains "There's no longer any freedom of speech left in America" because "You can't tell any kind of joke about any ethnic group, only about blonds and lawyers..."

To be precise, all jokes are capital crimes, punishable by lethal injection or electrocution, except those about blonds and lawyers, which carry a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. That's because we need blonds and lawyers to carry out capital punishment.

Can we not trivialize the First Amendment by confounding our freedom from government infringement on private speech with a license to talk with social impunity?

Sigh. As a blond married to a lawyer, I expect to be sued for the above rant. *sniff*

..."HEY..."YOu folks really dropped the "BALL" on the Pastor's killing, by the "DEVIL." "As a Christain, I read both article's the "WASHINGTONPOST" ran today, "WHERE'S YOUR ON FAITH?????

..."WHERE'S YOURS ON PRAYER?????????

....Yes as a Christian, Voter/Vet USAF, Graduate Student, Class 2009, East Tennessee State University, Tommy Birchfield, my name behind thesee words, so...."THE DEVIL'S BEHIND..."Pastor Winter's death.

I wish to know more about the gunman, who he is, did he know Pastor....Winters, and I will Pray to the Living God, he lives, and the innocent member of "God's flock injured in the "Devils Free for All, but I can assure you who read these words, "Pastor Winters is in Heaven, and the Devils in hell where he belongs, and as a Christian I have "HOPE" while Satan does not!

..."Let YOur HOPE...."Make You Glad,

...."BE PATIENT IN TIMES OF TROUBLE, "AND...

...."NEVER STOP PRAYING." ---(Romans 12:12)

"What the killer doesn't realize is that the killed pastor is having a great day with the Lord now."

So why are all his parishoners mourning for him? Did they not like the pastor?

"So why are all his parishoners mourning for him? Did they not like the pastor?"

They will miss the guy even if they know he is in a better place. Nobody wins here. Both families suffer (the killer and the one killed). The worst part is that the killer will surely fry forever in hell. That's 100% sure. The killer's family is in a worse situation. For the preacher's family, a future reunion in heaven.

The end result : atheists will all be losers however you look at it.

"The fool hath said in his heart : there is no God".

They are called fools because they chose the path towards doom.

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

God doesn't LIE. Hell is real. The killer will surely fry. It's forever and it's a very pitiful sight.

I don't believe in abortion but this is one case where abortion was the better choice.

"The Son of man goeth (or will die or be killed) as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born."

It had been good for that killer if he had not been born. Christ know what awaits people who are doomed. It's very terrifying. I don't think there is even a second of silence in hell. They would be screaming in pain for eternity.

America was spared of destruction during the two world wars. It won't happen again coz God will weed out what he considers as FOOLS within the borders of America.

Al Qaeda is a danger to America but not as much as the FOOLS inside America. God will wipe it clean soon. He will allow those nuke missiles to reach America.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:" (Matthew 24:22)

Peck 3,

I never wrote, "When I was going to school...." That was written by somebody else whose post I cited. That post had very good points to make about religion in the public schools. Learn to read.

You wrote, "When I myself was going to elementary and junior high school in the fifties..." Then you proceeded to whine about how blacks were supposedly second-class citizens. That is not even part of this topic. If you get to write about your days in school, why shouldn't anyone and everyone else have the same right?

I couldn't care less, Peck 3, how you felt you were treated in the fifties. I was born long after the fifties, and I actually have no concerns about Black-America.

It would be fascinating to see the reaction if a pagan student put up a poster with a pentacle. I suspect we would again see that those who protest so loudly about their lack of freedom to push their religion would want the poster with the pentacle removed. I believe that the only reason you don't see pentacles in public is, simply put, persecution.

Yes, I said persecution. Fundamentalist Christian groups have sought out public pagan events for the sole purpose of pushing their particular version of Christianity. At one Pagan Pride event that I attended we had to call to police. One of the "preachers" was so loud and disruptive that, after ample warning by the police officers, the police had to arrest him to prevent continued disruption.

At another recent fundraiser for the local Pagan Pride event (an open to the public event with a sign out front) we had an individual start yelling and creating a commotion specifically because of her view of pagan beliefs. Again, the police had to be called.

We all need to continue to strive for true "freedom of religions". This means all religions and the freedom to have no religion. It is a simple matter of respect for others.

Why are "christians" spoiling for a religious war? They're going to push their beliefs, and imagine nonexistent "persecution" until there is a massive backlash against them. Talk about self-fulfilling prophesies.

And of course these fine christians wouldn't object if Atheist Parents did the same thing, right?

The idea of god corrodes moral values.

Christian madrassas are no different from muslim madrassas. They are both intolerent of opposing viewpoints that limit their controls over a society. Public schools in to US are taxpaper institutions and no one should be allowed to post religious materials, or conduct religious activity on its property. PERIOD!

Spidermean:
"God doesn't LIE" but his existence is the biggest lie ever.

Come on Folks, this is not about religion. It is about Mob Rule. Once these people succeed in getting their way in public schools, the next trick is to start dictating what the students can read and shouldn't read.

I am from the Bible South, and the last Christian Act I witnessed was a "Book Burning." That is how I know this is all about mob rule. That is even their argument. They claim the Christians are in the majority so therefore, the mob should rule all of us.

Unfortunately, the current five Opus Dei members of the US Supreme Court also concur with this concept of mob rule.

This country has become a multicultural hell hole where only Christianity is allowed to be slammed. There is a huge double standard where Islam and every other religion/belief is revered and respected but Christians, even in this comment section, are ridiculed, mocked and their beliefs called every name in the book. Try doing this about homosexuality, Muslims and "Allah, or any other minority. The double standard must end, and the hypocrisy of the bigots like the ones here exposed.

donlibes wrote:
It would be interesting to know how the school and the Praying Parents handled (or would handle if it arose) references to praying to Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or, for that matter, Satan. Would you allow posters asking for blessings from each of these on the walls of your school? We're talking about freedom of religion, right?
********************************

This is perhaps the best argument against those who advocate for free speech and the freedom to allow any expression of religion while on school time / property. If we allow Christian prayer, while not allow all these others as well? The answer to this, of course, would be yes, we would need to allow them also. But at some point you would have to come to the conclusion that the school setting is really for one primary purpose - learning - and all this focus on other activities is distracting the students from this primary goal. So restricting religious expression in the school setting is not necessarily a violation of one's rights or freedom of speech. It is simply recognition that public schools should focus on learning and not become distracted by other activities. My kid’s school does not allow Game Boys (or other electronic devices) on school property for the same reasoning. The school does not have anything against electronic devices. They just realize that they distract from the primary purpose of secular learning. Schools are, and should be, controlled environments that focus on the primary goal of education. They never will be, nor should be, a totally free speech area.

How about this - religious groups can post their beliefs in public forums, providing secularists can teach evolution in the churches.

Evolution again? Are you dumb? Even if you live 20 billion years (the assumed age of the universe) and I presume has a brain (the earth don't have it) I bet you can't recreate what the earth has created for itself like the grasses and eagles flying.

idiot.

(BeginQuote) the offended parents "are chilled and deterred from expressing their view . . . due to their fear of censorship, reprisal, and reprimand."(EndQuote)

LOL - aren't the "offended parents" also claiming that the children are expressing THEIR OWN views, rather than the parents views?

Valkyrie66 wrote: "This country has become a multicultural hell hole where only Christianity is allowed to be slammed. There is a huge double standard where Islam and every other religion/belief is revered and respected but Christians"

Sure - try proclaiming yourself publicly to be an atheist or a pagan for a day. Then give an honest answer as to whether you can still say that only Christians are "allowed to be slammed" with a straight face.

Spidey wrote: "Even if you live 20 billion years (the assumed age of the universe) and I presume has a brain (the earth don't have it) I bet you can't recreate what the earth has created for itself"

Remember that you said this when I come to collect on that bet in 19,000,000,050 years.