Holy War, Pentagon Style

OMG! this is unbelievable! well, actually believable, i mean, it WAS bush, but it's scary...

Rummy, Cheney and Rove all knew how to manipulate the idiot son of the former CIA director and President, boy Bush. These folks had their finger on 'the button'. That is really scary. Even after an unnecessary war, a destroyed economy and a divided country, it could have been worse. Keep religion away from government. This is soooo scary.

Now George, why don't you go out to the ranch and ride your bike and we'll call you and let you know what's going on. Go on now, get plenty of sleep!

The sad thing is that not many people care if they are radical religist zealots waging a holy war in our military in (God's and) America's name.

This is even further proof of the ignorance and stupidity of one of the worst presidents this nation has ever elected, George Dum@ss Bush. Bush was manipulated endlessly by Cheney Rums feld and others. What an idiot, a shame, and a disgrace. Bush told the world that god ordered him to start a war with Iraq that ended up killing, torturing, orphaning, and exiling hundreds of thousands. I wonder it Hitler was a Christian, he didn’t think much different than Bush.

Many contemporary historic Jesus exegetes (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg, Fredriksen, Pagels, and Armstrong - all On Faith panelists) after thorough analyses have concluded
that:

Matt 26:52 "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish by the sword" is NOT an authentic passage.

http://www.faithfutures.org/index.php?title=269_Jesus_Arrested and

http://www.faithfutures.org/index.php?title=Crossan_Inventory

It is recommended that the other passages cited be checked for authenticity.

It is far too easy to dismiss this story. Consideration must be given to George W. Bush's faith experience and Rumsfeld's exploitation of it.

Onward, Christian Soldiers

http://massachusettsobserver.blogspot.com/2009/05/onward-christian-soldiers.html

Our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global/domestic terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,442 KIA 855 non- combat and 91,944 – 100,379 Iraqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

Continued below:

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

- Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

- Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

- Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they have threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???

- North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel hopefully a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

- North Korea was taken off the terrorist country list recently.

- Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

- The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. Unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “square one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

- Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

- Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanhistan and Pakistan.

- Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

- Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

- Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

- Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

- The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

- And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

CCnl, you forgot to mention that David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, and the Unibomber were all far RIGHT wing extremists. As were the two Tenn. men arrested last fall for plotting to kill blacks on their way to DC to asosinate then Prez-elect Obama. And who will ever forget the McCain/Palin rallies for their on the edge rants, raves and threats against then candidate Obama. National Security involves domestic terrorism threats too, and the GOP didn't do a very good job there did they? Oh you say, Dems were in control of the WH when these acts took place? So that makes it okay that extremists from your party attack the duly elected government? Dems and Repubs died in Oklahoma City. Inocents were killed, just like when Al Qaeda or the Taliban strike.

Jesus is appalled at the modern, hypocritical, fundamentalists, I'm sure.

If he walked the earth today they would crucify him themselves.

Separate Church and State as the US Constitution requires.

ITS THE LAW.

If Matthew 26:52 is not an original saying of Jesus, the author certainly included it to guard against any misunderstanding that Christianity supported violent action. True the verse appears only in Matthew, but there is overwhelming evidence that the early church rejected military action until the time of Constantine. When, of course, the faith became the official religion of the Roman Empire.

monty keeling

During the war in Iraq my pastor called Bush "a modern day David" from the pulpit, and I don't know how many references I heard about the evil in Babylon i.e., Iraq. For many evangelical churches, the war was spun as a holy war and perhaps even the last battle between good and evil in the final days. It made me sick to see good, Christian leaders to get so wrapped up in politics.

Exxon 5:4:

"Thou Shalt Covet Thy Neighbors Oil."

Couldn't resist, sorry

People have been pointing out the Bush Administration's use of "faith-based intelligence" for years.

The update on our War on Terror and Aggression is simply stating the facts. It is obvious to most that terror and aggression are not limited to one particular "wing" or party.

e.g. the right wing Nazis vs. the left wing Communists.

Why is anyone surprised? Bush-the author of the "premption doctrine" which failed to prempt the attack on the World Trade center, the cheerleader-in-chief for "Pax Americana", and the creator of the "plenary Presidency" also viewed himself as the Crusader President, the last bastion of defense against the onsalught of barbarian fanatics against the American homeland (read as " holy land"). In the service of his own religious convictions, Bush believed that the end justifies the means. Accordingly he could order the torure of prisoners and simultaneously say the United States did not torture prisoners.

What Bush did as President was bad. How he did what he did was badly. He will not go down in history as either the first or the last failed leader to justify himself with religious imprecations.

Appalling.

Both the article and posters commenting here. There is a SERIOUS issue presented here, that of Evangelical influence throughout the officer corps, especially in the Air force.

Yet once again the "conversation" devolves into the same-old, same-old self-impressed parsing of Christianity, whether certain bible verses are authentic or not, and the usual load of off-topic ramblings and snark.

Anyone here have a constructive idea for attacking the REAL issue -- rooting out the Crusaders from the military's midst?

Here's a starting point for you. Check out Mikey Weinstein's MRFF and GET INVOLVED. Do something for a change instead of doing all this self-impressed "how many angels dance on the head of a pin" bull session.

No wonder bad stuff keeps happening and doesn't get changed.

Wow another poorly conceived and executed Bush administration policy based on a warped sense of Christianity. Who would have thought it? Next we will find out that the officer corps is being evaluated and promoted based on its adherence to this twisted idea of religion. Read An Army at Dawn if you want to see how that one works out.

Why not just lie and say that Saddam had WMD's if they wanted to sell the war to Bush?

To exploit President Bush's religeous beliefs to sell the war is a new low - even for Cheney and Co.

My Faith is better than your Faith!!!!!!

Its time humanity made the final break from all this superstitous nonsense. It took a long time to break from the tradition of many Gods to just one God.

Its time to make the final rational step.

It seems like Mr. Waters is trying to get people riled up again. It doesn’t surprise me or concern me at all that Bible verses were used by certain people in the military. I’m sure this has been done since the country was established. The accusations and information are so ambiguous that it is very hard to know what is even the point of contention is. Obviously, he is trying to prevent anyone from practicing their faith in office, at least if you’re Christian. I think the best I could see is that someone could be accused of taking the Bible out of context but there really is no evidence of this here. If we are to really understand this we would need to see a more comprehensive list of how the Bible was used.
Here are a couple of points I would make.

1. Jesus is not only quoted in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). He is quoted in other places. You might want to start with reading Revelation. He is quoted quite a bit and he isn’t the pacifist this time.
The quotes you have of Jesus are very true and do point out that it is not the Christians job to cause quarrels or arguments or worse. We are to try to make peace in all circumstances, since that is the ideal. This of course is in a world that is anything but peaceful. In context, keep in mind that the Jews thought the Messiah (Jesus) was going to be a conqueror and would help them over throw Rome and reign as King on Earth. This was clearly Christ’s purpose and so there are many quotes of this nature and all very true.
These quotes do not necessarily have to do with government. The Bible is consistent in condoning war for the safety of its people and justice.
“3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.” Romans 13:3-4
This is actually getting into the argument of a “Just war” and I don’t want to go there, so I’ll stop at this.

2. I have heard no credible evidence that we went to war because of anything in the Bible. We had a case for going to war and we presented before our government. It was overwhelmingly approved across all branches of government. We also got a coalition of 30 nations and approval from others that refused to help. This is how we should go about making decisions on war and it is how it works.
It is frustrating to see Mr. Waters try to go back and re-shape how we reasoned through the war. Obviously he doesn’t like were the war went nor the fact that religious people were involved but it doesn’t change the facts. You are welcome to share opinions but let’s keep the facts straight.

It seems like Mr. Waters is trying to get people riled up again. It doesn’t surprise me or concern me at all that Bible verses were used by certain people in the military. I’m sure this has been done since the country was established. The accusations and information are so ambiguous that it is very hard to know what is even the point of contention is. Obviously, he is trying to prevent anyone from practicing their faith in office, at least if you’re Christian. I think the best I could see is that someone could be accused of taking the Bible out of context but there really is no evidence of this here. If we are to really understand this we would need to see a more comprehensive list of how the Bible was used.
Here are a couple of points I would make.

1. Jesus is not only quoted in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). He is quoted in other places. You might want to start with reading Revelation. He is quoted quite a bit and he isn’t the pacifist this time.
The quotes you have of Jesus are very true and do point out that it is not the Christians job to cause quarrels or arguments or worse. We are to try to make peace in all circumstances, since that is the ideal. This of course is in a world that is anything but peaceful. In context, keep in mind that the Jews thought the Messiah (Jesus) was going to be a conqueror and would help them over throw Rome and reign as King on Earth. This was clearly Christ’s purpose and so there are many quotes of this nature and all very true.
These quotes do not necessarily have to do with government. The Bible is consistent in condoning war for the safety of its people and justice.
“3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.” Romans 13:3-4
This is actually getting into the argument of a “Just war” and I don’t want to go there, so I’ll stop at this.

What do we expect? Islam is not the only religion that indoctrinates its followers. Being born into a Christian sect is still a common way for people to "choose" their religion. In most Christian sects, we are not taught to question our tenets but to follow them faithfully (blindly?). I see this all the time. This is somewhat similar in the military: indoctrination, obedience, faith in the leadership, etc. It makes sense to me that the members of certain Christian sects are drawn to the military. This is not going to change and we will have to deal again and again with these behaviors...for good and bad. Someday I hope we will someday realize that there is not a single path to enlightenment. Then perhaps we will stop having generals like Boykin who make statements like "I knew my God was bigger than his..."

It seems like Mr. Waters is trying to get people riled up again. It doesn’t surprise me or concern me at all that Bible verses were used by certain people in the military. I’m sure this has been done since the country was established. The accusations and information are so ambiguous that it is very hard to know what is even the point of contention is. Obviously, he is trying to prevent anyone from practicing their faith in office, at least if you’re Christian. I think the best I could see is that someone could be accused of taking the Bible out of context but there really is no evidence of this here. If we are to really understand this we would need to see a more comprehensive list of how the Bible was used.
Here are a couple of points I would make.

1. Jesus is not only quoted in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). He is quoted in other places. You might want to start with reading Revelation. He is quoted quite a bit and he isn’t the pacifist this time.
The quotes you have of Jesus are very true and do point out that it is not the Christians job to cause quarrels or arguments or worse. We are to try to make peace in all circumstances, since that is the ideal. This of course is in a world that is anything but peaceful. In context, keep in mind that the Jews thought the Messiah (Jesus) was going to be a conqueror and would help them over throw Rome and reign as King on Earth. This was clearly Christ’s purpose and so there are many quotes of this nature and all very true.

After the Crusade came the Inquisition.

"It's not possible to make a case for earthly war by quoting Jesus, who said among other things:"

Actually, it is. You quote 3 verses in Matthew that support your point, but ignore Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. "

Christians who espouse this sort of thing are just bulllies -- because they figure there are more of them than people of other religions (or no religion) they will just run political roughshod over the rest. Might makes right. Pretty far away from the Sermon on the Mount, and the Golden Rule, but that would never dawn on them -- they are too redfaced and stubborn to see the light. If they want this government for their own religion, do people like myself still need to pay taxes?

So we got EVERYTHING wrong the last 8 years because we were using “god” and the bible to help us make decisions? Couldn’t the morons have just prayed and left it at that? That way nothing would have happened and we might not be in the mess we’re in today.

This is absolutely inappropriate, and those who have posted here excusing this behavior should be ashamed. The United States of America is a republic with separation of church and state, and there is no excuse whatsoever for these Bible sayings to have been on any official publication. I say this as a conservative religious woman.

People like Realadult are a credit to religion. My message applied to all those Christians who ESPOUSE their religion in government.

It's quite clear that the Bible quotes were used as analogies, nothing more. People familiar with the Bible use such analogies all the time without any intention of invoking some sort of Biblical pronouncement.

Anti-Christian sorts will see them as indicating some new Crusade, of course, but that's nothing more than a function of their bias.

Rummy's a clever guy. He knows a rube when he sees one. He saw Bush as a rube. Bush substituted Jesus and running for his bottles of alcohol. Rummy simply wanted to finish Saddam the way Bush 41 never did, even though there had been the opportunity. As Rummy stood for hours on end at his Pentagon desk, it occurred to him that Bush would respond as desired to the Iraq situation if it were painted as a black versus white, evil versus good, Muslim versus Christian, Satan versus God, booze versus Jesus sort of thing. Bush has exquisite perception of high contrast things. He took his pick: attack Saddam.

Dear Neverleft, go to the GQ page linked above. These Bible quotes are quite clearly adorning the cover of intelligence briefings, and thus are part of official government information. To pretend they are "analogies" (a word that expresses the similarities between two things) is ridiculous. This is not an issue of bias against Christians, this is an issue of the destruction of what makes our American way of life unique.

Yup, the AmeriChristianists have a lot to account for. No reason not to start with their current holy war for oil, which has left more than two million dead.

As for how they have infected and undermined the military, harassing, oppressing, repressing, arguably endangering the lives of their fellow servicemen, see:

Mikey Weinstein. "With God on Our Side."

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about.html
---------------------------

T-Prop:

"Exxon 5:4:

"Thou Shalt Covet Thy Neighbors Oil.'

Couldn't resist, sorry"

No need to apologize.

Dear Realadult,

Neverleft was referring to the quotations themselves, not their use in the publications. It's easy to quote out of context, and make things seem to say whatever you want them to say - which is what the writers of these publications did. The use of biblical quotes to support military actions is inexcusable, from two standpoints: first, because it violates the separation of church and state, and second, because it misuses scripture.

The person who uses the Romans quotation to support military action, is taking taking the quotation out of context. Paul is not talking about military action, but judicial action, first of all, and Paul, himself, had problems with governmental authority. Such quotations should be read alongside of other teachings, such as Jesus' "he who picks up the sword shall die by the sword," and Peter's "we should obey God rather than man." There would be a few others we could include as well.

As far as not wanting to get into Just War theology - it would be right that a supporter of war would not want to get into that. The Just War theory was an attempt to limit war - something that those who want to go to war find offensive. It's no wonder that they always think it is not applicable, or outdated (just as those who want to jump in bed with other people's spouses think "don not commit adultry" is outdated, or the Wall Street types think "thou shalt not steal" is outdated). By Just War standards, few wars could ever be fought - which points out the obvious: war is never "holy," "right" or "righteous."

Come on, we darn well knew this was going on.

Disgusting to actually see it, though.

As much as I distrusted Bush and his sense of propriety about church and state, I really would not have believed this was possible - that somebody in the government really thought it was a good idea to put FREAKING BIBLE VERSES on a Pentagon briefing about a war in which we are allegedly bending over backwards not to be perceived as crusaders!! What were they thinking?! This is truly outrageous and high-level heads need to roll at the Pentagon. The poster above is right - we need to DO something, get involved. This story needs to gather steam.

I wonder why they left out the rest of that quote, "12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints." [Eph 6:12-18]

Clearly, it was taken out of context to invoke the hubris of those who would see it. It was twisted from the apostle's intent to strengthen the inward man to resist the evil that besets us everywhere to invoke a human pride response. Christians are never advised to exact revenge upon others. On the contrary, they are encouraged to withstand the impulse to strike back and to endure to the end, even if it means physical death.

Only the spiritually minded man understands the things of the Spirit. Obviously, the persons preparing those briefing were not of that genre. It does not surprise me. The same apostle warned us that men would twist God's word to their own destruction. "3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." [2 Tim 4:3,4]

The comfort we have is in knowing that these men will be held to account before God himself, "30For we know him who said, 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' and again, 'The Lord will judge his people.' 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. [Heb 10:30,31]

No government official should ever view himself or his nation as executing God's will beyond that authority which God has himself extended to governments. There is no Holy Nation upon the Earth.

No surprise here. Anyone paying attention already knew what this bunch of christo-fascists thought and believed.

But hopefully it makes it that much clearer to the majority in this country that we can NEVER allow these insane criminals near the levers of power again. I don't think we'll be lucky enough to dodge the bullet a second time.

It is my ardent wish that someday we humans will dispense with religious superstition and see our world for what it is. We should see the iconic image of our planet from outer space as the actual truth. We must endeavor to live on earth as it is (indeed) in the heavens. Then we could understand that Life, the Universe and Everything are the Transcendent Reality of which we are an integrated part. It is time for us to live the realization of ourselves as the Living Truth with Courage (love), Respect, and Humility.

Colorado:

"How, oh how, are Limbaugh's Republicans and Palin's evangelicals ever going to wait at least three and a half more years to get this Black man out of the White House, the Bible back in the Pentagon, and Rove back demonizing Muslims in the name Jesus and National Security

"One can only hope they have a few anuerisms (or maybe kidney failures) while they are waiting"

You're not Pagan, are you? Cause if you are, I might have to get all priestessey and remind you what kind of poison revenge is.

Also that it seems right now that Cheney's out and about trying to set some backfires of Obama-hate that'll see these fatcats through to outliving the day when the mess they made is all straightened out and *America* wants them called to account.

It was a cold day in December of '65 when little ol' draftee me got my first exposure to religion (having been raised as an atheist). Our company had just finished a day of parading around and the top sergeant decided to cut the exercise short because it was getting really cold.
The march stopped in front of the Post church, where we stood at parade rest. Our platoon sergeant gave us a choice: either remain at parade rest outside the church or go inside to get away from the weather until the duce and a halfs came to take us back to barracks.
A few of us chose not to go in. Sergeant Plumley came up to each of us and asked if we were "Jews or something". If so, he suggested that we may want to undergo a Christian conversion just to get out of the cold.
So, I'm not surprised by this tale of wars as a Christian Crusade. Indeed, Bush referred to HIS war using that very, same word.
And since this Bush boy was not the brightest candle in the box, it stands to reason that he could be taken in by this malarkey; that appropriate quotes from the Bible would be seen by his primitive mind as reinforcing what he thought all along: God (his god, of course) wanted the infidel brought to justice for their crimes--and for not being Christians.
There's no mystery here, folks. The crew that fabricated this war either saw it as a crusade and/or knew that their commander in chief could be easily persuaded as such.

So - al Queda tries to frame our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq as "Crusaders attacking Islam" - and the Pentagon starts putting biblical quotes in their briefing headers? Which al Qaeda mole within the Pentagon got high-fived for that piece of brilliance? The same one that talked Dick Cheney into proving that the US doesn't really believe in human rights or the rule of law by torturing prisoners in contravention of US laws and treaty obligations?

Anyone responsible should be prosecuted for giving aid and comfort to the enemy, in addition to any prosecution based on the obvious church/state separation violations.

Make no mistake - wherever you stand on the war(s) - Biblical quotes on official military documents was a really, really stupid idea during a time when we were saying "we're fighting terrorists, not Islam."

Garoth,
I don’t believe my quotation in Romans is out of context. Perhaps you disagree with my interpretation but it is still in context. Unlike the rest of the scripture used here, Romans 13 is talking about government rule and not personal Christian conduct. They aren’t necessarily the same thing. I agree there is a judicial sense to this passage but I don’t see any reason it can’t be extended to military protection. Besides you rarely “wield a sword” for judicial reasons. This seems much more common in war. I would recommend everyone read the passage, it is very applicable. I always think people should see the whole picture.
I am obviously also not a supporter of war in general but I do understand the need for it. The Just War doctrine is supposed to limit war but understands that people must protect themselves. Of course if everyone followed the standard, no one would fight wars. But again, I am appealing to real world doctrine. I still think it applies to our current day and I am glad that our country appeals to these standards.
I would also point out there are many other passages that allow governments to go to war. I reiterate that the Jesus of the Gospels was trying to calm down a bunch of angry men that thought he was going to overthrow Rome. Any mention of war would have incited them. If you fast forward to Revelation, it is a much different story. It is clear that war is part of Jesus plan. Not that this is our concern for the time being, but we need to be aware of the whole picture.

Kert1: Fascinating little bible interpretation you got there.

Now go to hell, and take your gun-toting Jesus with you. Nobody need either of you around here. Thanks.

Your newspaper reported yesterday that Christians are more likely to approve of torture than any other group of American's. Today you report that Christians in the military used the Bible to justify Bush's insane war in Iraq. Is this ironic, hypocritical, or just cause to be frightened by the religious extremists and their willingness to justify torture and killing in order to prop up their political views? Is this a warning of their willingness to bring about chaos and mayhem and thus proclaim their belief in Armegeddon? It seems they engage in their theory of End Times and are giddy to bring it about.

No intelligent, thoughtful person believes in god or adheres to any religion. Bible verses on tanks or anywhere in the military are the epitome of idiocy. For all these delusional believers, the commandment "thou shall not kill" has absolutely no meaning. All military personnel are either murderers because they kill or accomplices to murder because they support those who murder. This is very black and white. There is no gray area regarding the ten commandments and this applies to all "believers." It is likely that if one commandment is ignored, the others are as well. I guess most of the believers will be going to hell.

I guess we call this version "Christian Crusade", which is the same as "Islamic Jihad". Isn't religion wonderful? O that we could rocket all you fundamentalist hate mongers to Jupiter where you could gleefully slaughter each other while quoting your favorite passage & verse. Just think of all the innocent children who could be saved and even those pregnant women whose babies you aborted by killing them by "mistake". Pray over that reality, you phony liars.

I suppose Bush could always say..."well, God made me do it.." and that would be his "answer to all things.."

I AND OTHER ONLY HOPE THE FACELESS SOULS OF THOSE LOST IN IRAQ..OF THOSE WHO LOST LIMBS, VISION AND MOVEMENT HAUNT BUSH, CHENEY AND RUMSFELT FOR THE REST OF THEIR COLLECTIVE LIVES....

Seems to me our leadership would be well-served to just stick to the facts regarding intelligence briefings.

After 24 years on active duty as an officer in the U.S. Navy, I am appalled that no one in the Pentagon hierarchy -- and no one who actually saw the cover sheets bearing Bible verses -- reacted strongly enough to get the practice stopped after the first one slipped through. What is going on? It's not that religion was quashed in my days at the Pentagon -- there were prayer and Bible study groups attended by military and civilian officials -- but I can't imagine anyone splattering Bible verses across the front of any kind of official military document, including briefing slides. That a Major General thought it was a good idea, and that no one contradicted him, is very disturbing.

Well he did call it a crusade! The general writing this stuff is a religious nut. He probably wanted to be like another religious nut (but successful) general, Patton. Only these people, including the President, were using religion as a crutch. To convince themselves they were doing the right thing. We will have more in the officers corps since it seems they put as much emphasis on evangelizing at the academies as teachimg military science. Excuse me. I know science is offensive to some. You know who you are. Don'r fall off the edge of the earth. As for my self, I don't believe in ghosts, holy or otherwise.

It's hard to conceive of anything more oxymoronic (or moronic, for that matter) than a "conservative Christian". People who call themselves that demonstrate with their beliefs and actions a thorough disdain for everything that Jesus preached.

So it's not surprising that the neocons studiously avoided Jesus' actual words in trying to sell their war to capture their neighbor's oil for the Bush campaign donors. And even the old testament strictures are followed with agile selectivity. "Thou shalt not steal" and "thou shalt not kill" only apply to other people, not the specially-privileged conservative pseudochristians.

I would have preferred quotes likes "We are going to smash Al Queda and rip their spines out and spit on their bones."

But that is just much too gauche for the Pentagon and the MSM.

While vacationing on earth, God meets a woman.

Out of curiosity, God asked 'What is your purpose to live'? The woman replies 'Produce eggs'. God says 'Fair enough' and moves on.

A bit further God meets man. God asks again 'What is your purpose to live'? The man replies 'Keep them busy'.

God smiles and makes a mental note 'This ones for St. Peter'.

Pro life christians who become soldiers to kill people. Just a hint of irony and hypocricy there.

These briefings had they been leaked would have been as devastating as Abu Ghraib in the Islamic world. It is stupid and unnecessary and could cost the lives of U.S. soldiers abroad all to to make a few fundamentalists feel good about bombing the crap out of Muslims.

Disgusting

Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are already out of the picture AND YET America will still be at war with bigger and much stronger enemies in the near future.

WHY?

STUPIDITY has taken over this world like evolution, gay-marriage, pot legalization (46% of Californians are for it), humanism, etc. New York's mayor, MIchael Bloomberg, is busy convincing his constituents that a newfound lizard-look-alike was his ancestor.

Stupidity is self-destructive. Haven't you guys asked yourselves that these wars could have been an effect of left-wing stupidity?

If America was divided into two independent countries, one composed of liberal Democrat states and the other, conservative Republicans, guess who will be at war with Afghanistan and Iraq? Put into consideration that no conservative state was attacked. Also, all planes took off from very liberal cities with very lax security procedures. The terrorists earned their flight lessons on American soil under Bill Clinton's time.
More wars are coming and it's time that you guys look at the mirror. Bush may be stupid for allowing lousy people to handle the war, but nothing can beat the stupidity that the LEFT-WINGERS SEE ON THEIR MIRRORS.
Liberal evolutionist Demorat states are racing to legalize gay-marriage. Guess what happens next? Stupidity and destruction always go hand in hand. All I can say is, you've been warned.
As long as the stupidity remain, these wars are NOT winnable. Sad to say but I think it is better for conservative Christian military men to take a very long leave of absence and let the liberals fight THEIR war. Nothing can stop the liberal evolutionist gay marrying states from being destroyed. You can't fight against the law of nature. You guys are just putting yourselves in grave danger.

Lemme get this straight: And we said the Iraqis were religious fanatics? The whole problem is that lots of people think they're doing God's will, but God never stops down to let us know if that's correct. All sides in a war think God is on their side. Somebody has to be wrong.

American Christian religion is no longer that of God or the bible as we see by the actions of those who hail His Name. Evil is at work and like the days of Jesus many are really follow Satan. Dick Cheney is pure Evil and the Churches are more interested in money then souls. This plan will fail as Satan never wins in the end. My son was in Iraq and told me of how the troops were ordered to become Christians and spread it to all the Iraq Muslims. This has been going on from day one and the taxpayers are paying for it. We are paying Iraq/Afganistan people to become Christians. No wonder people don't go to church anymore or even believe in the Priest. Norte Dame showed how that disrespected President Obama for his beliefs yet Norte Dame has no problem with Priest molesting kids for many many years and continuing today.

When he was alive, Jesus, a Jew, marched under the banner of the “Prince of Peace”. He pissed off the “Forces for evil in the Community” and paid the ultimate price for doing so. Around the year 300 ACE, Rome made an abomination of the life of Jesus Christ by creating the Roman Catholic Church (of Satan). From that time on, the Christian Church has marched under the banner of the “Prince of Darkness”. The US has become the “Great Satan”, following the teachings of Satan Himself renamed to be the teachings of Jesus. The Bushies are the Disciples of Satan, the Prince of Darkness, busy blaspheming the Life of Christ. What else can you expect from such people? They will spend the rest of eternity sitting between Saddam Hussein and Satan Himself enjoying the warmth of the flames.

Lincoln frequently utilized biblical paraphrases. One of his more famous ones was a house divided against itself will not stand.

I was totally in awe when I first heard about this. Shocked, was more like it.

After thinking bout it for a while, I thought, why are you shocked. This was the Bush administration that we're are talking about.

In many ways, the Bush administration was no different than the Muslim Extremists that waged terrorist acts on the U.S., for their spiritual and political beliefs.

I wonder if some of these Extreme Christians and Muslims know that they are both waging war in the name of the same God. I also wonder sometimes, if God thinks we are also crazy.

Just a little something to think about.

So there were sociopaths pulling some strings and jerking some chains at the Pentagon? I'm shocked, shocked. .... And disgusted.

If Samuel Johnson was right when he said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" one can only imagine what to think of those who use religion as their justification.

Before getting too carried away with the conduct of our elected officials, see their track record by scrolling back to the section on the update on our War Against Terror and Aggression.

Spidremean:
"The terrorists earned their flight lessons on American soil under Bill Clinton's time"

And attcked under conservative Bush's tenure. Nice point genius.

And for christs sakes, if u r gonna call people stupid construct a gramatically correct sentence:
"As long as the stupidity remain"

U do see that u look like an idiot yourself when u call people stupid while failing to grasp basic English right?

This should prove to any sensible person that religion and the government should never mix. The two must remain completely separate.

so who has the balls to see this thru.....how many of you yanks want all the truth out there or just swept away as usual.....the notion of the US having the high moral ground on any subject is long gone...you are a nation of tortures, isn't that great, what a wonderful legacy

NOTHING NEW HERE !!!

DON'T SOLDIERS OF ALMOST ALL MILITARY FORCES BELIEVE THAT THEY BATTLE 'FOR GOD AND COUNTRY,' OR IN SOME INSTANCES, FOR GOD ALONE ???

I have worked on Military Installations; Marine Corps and Army; and the Chaplain corps works overtime putting GOD in charge of the War on Terrorism or GWOT as they like to call the War's.

There are sanctioned Bible studies, for all unmarried soldiers and Marines, prayer breakfatst with high military commanders spoting like GOD's warriors can only spout and shout their belief in GOD with GUN in hand, identifying the evil people of the wold. OnWard Christian soldiers!

As a lifetime Buddhist; over 55 years old; my experience in Vietnam as a Marine is I was not allowed to practice Buddhism as it was in line with the ewnemies religion. This is not new it has been going on for more than fifty years in the military. Onward Christian Soldiers!

There is more at play with religion torture, and the military with Christian Generals leading GOD's Army to eternal heaven on earth. Saving Israel! Onward Christian soldiers.

Patrick

This is worth repeating:

---
"It's not possible to make a case for earthly war by quoting Jesus, who said among other things:

"Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish by the sword" (Matthew 26:52).

"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully

use you, and persecute you." (Matthew 5:44).

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth,' But I say to you, do not resist an

evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also" (Matthew 5:38-42)."
---

Unfortunately, these idiot evangelicals are still seeing their faith as an instrument of war and domination, versus the peaceful teachings of the Jesus they claim to worship.

They also believe that a big Godship will come and take them all away and leave all us lowly infidels behind.

I wish they'd hurry up and leave before they destroy us all.

.

My pappy had a comment very applicable to this situation: "Never mix ice cream and horse manure. It ruins the ice cream and doesn't make the horse manure taste any better." In accordance with which, they should leave the scriptures off the military briefing cover pages.

Of course I have to acknowledge that turnabout is fair play, and it's only proper that preachers should also omit any military analogies from their sermons in future!

Frank57,

This is worth repeating:

Many contemporary historic Jesus exegetes (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg, Fredriksen, Pagels, and Armstrong - all On Faith panelists) after thorough analyses have concluded
that:

Matt 26:52 "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish by the sword" is NOT an authentic passage.

http://www.faithfutures.org/index.php?title=269_Jesus_Arrested and

http://www.faithfutures.org/index.php?title=Crossan_Inventory

It is recommended that the other passages cited also be checked for authenticity.

Why is anyone surprised? Bush described the invasion of Iraq as a "crusade" in the beginning - until someone shut him up on that one.

That's got to be the best way ever to convince Islamic moderates that our intentions were good.

Not.

I still can't believe this evangelical b.s. ever happened in the first place. Sure is not my dad's Army, is it? Did they put in for an order of snakes to handle at the front lines?

The Bible is never wrong. A great number of Americans will burn and lots in the U.S Army will die in battle. Remember there are more wars coming.

Just recently the U.S Army decided to burn the Bibles in Afghanistan sent by a church here in America. I can't imagine how a true Christian can burn a Bible. This is all MEDIA HYPE which picture the Pentagon as a "Christian force". It's NOT.

True Christains should leave this institution or pay the consequence of taking orders from stupid Pentagon hierarchy.

This just shows how stupid the Pentagon is. Stupidity and destruction always go hand in hand. America is protected by a bunch of stupid people. This makes America NOT so safe and it's in line with the prophecy of DOOM in the Bible.

Why would God protect America if the people are UNGODLY?

Picture it in your mind how the Bibles were burnibg when the nukes start to rain in America.

NOBODY MESSES WITH GOD.

Is it any wonder why they hate us so much? The more I hear and see for myself what we as a country do, the more I root for the big one to end the failed ruling of the planet by humans.

Still more proof that religion poisons everything.

What's so wrong with sharing the WORD of God and let people who have never held a Bible all their lives get one? Only the troops of SATAN will disapprove of that. The Pentagon and many of the posters here seem to be cozying up with the devil.

Christian parents, take your children out of the U.S Army (which just recently burned Bibles). In the future, you would know why it's a wise decision.

"Bigotry is the sacred disease."
--Heraclitus 535-475 BC

I'm less concerned about the Pentagon's Bible verse commentaries than I am about their TV commentators. The "military analysts" that gave expert opinions on the networks and cable news shows were given their talking points directly by the Defense Department. Moreover, some of them had major interests in companies that were profiting from the war. This story has been underreported by the print media, (except for the NYT that broke the story) and the broadcast media have never mentioned it. We should be outraged.

The question is whether most Americans, not counting the incredibly injured posters who haunt this discussion board, would rather have military or government servants who follow a well-defined and broadly understood Christian ethic, or one by wiccans worshiping the wild woods, or your garden variety atheist or agnostic.

Americans are not required to check their faith at the ballot box, or at the work place, so get over it!

This is counterintelligence topic that requires a National Intelligence Estimate to address the threat these "religious" fundamentalist pose to the United States of America. Since the mid-1970's the "religious" right has infiltrated the military and civilian sectors of the DoD. Their sleeper agengts now influence the policy positions of the pandering politicans. Look no further than AIPAC as an example of their influence. Look no further than George W. Bush as an example of the extent of their penetration. When the SecDef and the JCS quotes religious ideology to justify policy the threat is not imagined it's real.

Apostle Paul wrote "You know that the saints (true Chrsitians) will rule the world, don't you? And if the world is going to be ruled by you, can't you handle insignificant cases?"

How is it then possible that the U.S. Army (which just recently burned Bibles in Afghanistan) can win this war and the coming wars if its hierarchy is NOT CHRISTIAN? The current Pentagon hierarchy is a doomed institution.

Christian parents, here's a very good advice. Take your children out of the U.S Army (which just recently burned Bibles). In the future, you would know why it's a wise decision.

A series of bigger wars are in the offing. Your children in the hands of "Bible-burners" giving them orderss is not a pleasant scenario. The probability is very high that they will come home in coffins.

The entire eight years of Bush were terrifying, now we know why; God made him do it.

The founding fathers had it right and it is still right separation of state and religion.

I had a neighbor who left the military after a long career because he kept hearing that Bush was going to bring on the second coming of Christ by creating Armageddon in Iraq.

In the kind of world we're living now, wars are inevitable. Leave it to the liberals to fix the problem. It's their lives which are at stake anyway.

When the nukes start coming, it's in their cities that these nukes will land. Let them handle their own problem.

The prophecy is clear that Christians will rule this world. How can Christian America rule if these idiotic leftist liberals are here with us?

Spidermean2, as usual, shows what happens to you if you take a little too much religion. I've seen my share of drug burnouts, but I've never seen one THAT far gone.

Religious folks should be happy that the Constitution guarantees the right to practice their religion. Because if it was possible, you'd be seeing a movement to ban the stuff completely. And it would be gaining momentum right about now.

I'm an AF officer with 17 years experience and do not consider myself to be a Christian and I have never, ever been proselytized to by fellow officers. Maybe it happens to others, but in the Air Force I know and love this phenomenon does not exist and it ticks me off to see how much attention this non-issue garners. Don't we have more important hairs to split?

bigbrother1 wrote "Religious folks should be happy that the Constitution guarantees the right to practice their religion."

Yeah right. Read your history so you would know who started and fought for the First Ammendment. If not for those religious folks which made this nation great, this world would have been ruled by Imperial Japan.

In the next few years, America will be subjugated (thanks to the idiots in Pentagon) because it is infected by liberalism. God will CURE the infection and America will be much greater than it has been.

The First Ammendment was established so the state (or the Pentagon) cannot dictate on its soldiers how or how not to practice their faith.

In much SIMPLER WORDS, the First Ammendment means :

"LEAVE THESE SOLDIERS ALONE WITH THEIR CONVICTION ON HOW TO PRACTICE THEIR FAITH"

The Bible-burning was unlawful and the one who ordered it must be punished for breaking the First Ammendment Law.

Why are we sending idiotic officers to fight our wars? It's because this country (the liberal part at least) is prophesied to be DOOMED.

If ever there is a muslim American soldier who decides to distribute Koran to his peers, that would be perfectly legal.

The Pentagon should learn how to shut its mouth when it's dealing with the religious conviction of its individual soldier.

Just imagine what uproar it will cause to the muslim world if they will burn a pile of Korans similar to waht they did to those Bibles.

Double standards. That is what the First Ammendment wants to avoid. The U.S. Army top general should be SACKED.

It's stupid to dress war up in Jesus robes and pretend it's noble and righteous. War is simply killing people and destroying their goods until they (or the survivors,anyway) give you what you want. Mixing Christianity with it just confuses the issue.

A high rate of Bible-use correlates with a high rate of Bible abuse. At Notre Dame last Sunday, President Obama used the Bible
for national humility, not national pride (as did President Lincoln).

This article is just the tip of the iceberg. The only religion in the military is that of the oath we swore, which is to the CONSTITUTION. Whether a military member is Christian, Jewish, Wiccan, Muslim, or none of the above is of no official concern to the military.

The military Chaplain Corps (and there are periodic efforts to dismantle it) came into being in an attempt to help military members live with the same religious practices they had in civilian life, within the practical requirements of military life (no lit candles in rough seas aboard ships, especially during refueling operations). In order to give military personnel some religious support, the Chaplain Corps requires a selflessness of the Chaplains who serve and the Churches which endorse them. They are there to provide ministry to those they can, and to assist those they cannot to receive military care from other Chaplains. The key concept is "pastoral care" and it means to keep the troop in the center: Those who wish to are welcome at chapel, etc.; those who wish to be left alone are also welcome to do so.

In the last 15 years or so, this has changed radically. Instead of "pastoral care", "evangelization" has become the lens for many fundamentalist "Chaplains". They see themselves as "missionaries", and the military personnel as their "mission field" As a result, instead of meeting the troops' needs, the purpose now has become meeting the Chaplain's needs. No longer are troops "allowed" to be left alone. A simple "I'm not interested" has given way to a constant pressure on the part of those supporting this view on troops to not only adopt "Christian" views, but specifically "Evangelical Christianity" ["Big E"--denominational Evangelical]. Christians of other denominations are considered "second rate" and are also being pressured to accept "Conversion" to the fundamentalist views.

And what makes this even harder is that fundamentalist "Christian" senior officers who have become part of the "Christian Embassy" program have taken it as THEIR right to have "religious discussions" with their troops. But the troops have no right to tell their bosses to go away. (How DOES a private tell a Colonel to leave him alone, anyway?).

The actions of these groups is supporting the radical Muslim complaint against America: That we are on a crusade against them. Our troops are becoming seen as crusadors...and the result of this is putting American troops in more danger, and encouraging the larger Muslim community world-wide to see us as not a neutral nation interested in peace, but a malevolent entity out to destroy Islam. The result is going to cost us year of warfare.

The Chaplaincy I joined in 1975 is almost unrecognizable today, thanks to the actoins of some of these Chaplains. Unless the Congress and the military takes a hard look at this situation, and bans groups like Christian Embassy and others from proselytizing in the military, the result will be a national disaster.

Pr Chris