Huckabee and God GOP

What the SBPC should have been told but were not: (yes, it is the thumping of reality)-

Jesus was an illiterate, Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology, all male hierarchies and strange banking and funding.

Eh, Baptist baptist baptist.

Yes, it's about reporting spin.

Also about why it's pretty silly for *any* press to claim religious language somehow represents or could govern America.

Could mean anything. If Huckster doesn't find his idea of 'moderate' between 'extreme right-wing screaming' and 'Less extreme right-wing screaming' to begin with.

with malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right

Huckabee is charming but he is a simpleton. Next time he contends America should live uder Gods law he shold take a look at Iran and realize that it is men, not God who would be in charge. God has nothing to do with governance and nor should it.

I know you are a decent man, so I expect you can understand the following:

1. The first need of a child when it enters this world is Air. Without air a newborn will be suffocated.
2. The next need of the child is food. Without food the child will eventually die.

Republicans have over the past eight years knowingly or unknowlingly, created an environment in US where the new generation of americans have been deprived of above two basic necessity.

Republicans had a golden opportunity for eight years to make a difference in the lives of Americans, but squandered it away.

Now, Obama and democrats have been given the opportunity and rightly so. If Obama spends money to provide for basic necessities for americans, what is the harm?

The least americans can expect from republicans is to show remorse for the wrongs of past eight years and help current administration in their constructive agenda.

On a parting note, Why did humanity create God? An honest answer to this question can help you understand, what is seriously wrong with Republican base and american corporations such as Walmart.

Just like George Bush, I think Huckabee don't realize that the Vatican is the seat of Satan. Once, I've heard him said that he respects the Pope very much. To me, it's a manifestation of ignorance.

Im not so sure about Huckabee if he will turn out to be a good President. ButIm sure he would be better than Obama. Palin would also do much better.

Obama is a very dangerous person. He destroys America little by little. The danger with him is he's destroying America in a "likable fashion". His actions "looks ok" but IT'S NOT OK. Very similar to Bill Clinton. Upto now, many people don't realize the destructiveness Clinton's policy have hurt America.

Sort of like when the Ayatollah speaks to the Imams, you know. Depends on which press you read: Iranian, or world press.

But the speeches are the same. Witchcraft and intolerance.

Huckabee is not someone to play with words, unfortunately or otherwise he had his go at it and we all saw what came of it. America has gone so far beyond what the present crop of GOP leaders understand, even their own offspring are hardput to explain it to them. Truth be said central themes of conservatism will not change, however this present crop of GOP leadership do not and will not in our life time understand who Obama is and what he speaks about.

What a confused little cracker this Huckabee is, or, more likely, just profoundly dishonest. Is he really unaware that his brand of fundamentalist American Christianity has little to do with Jesus and everything to do with theocratic patriarchy and jingoistic nationalism? Though we live in a country where, thank God, they have had much less success it's no exaggeration to say that the Huckabees of this land share the very same world view as the ayatollahs of the Muslim world. Let all true patriots and lovers of democracy fervently hope that they continue their current downward spiral into ignominy.

Huckabee is once again the perfect candidate for brain-damaged and deluded religious fundamentalists that see devils under every rock and Satan's minions controlling Washington and the Vatican.

Same old song and dance from another pitiful God-struck southern baptist dressed up like a politician......another pretender to the currently vacant GOP throne.

And we all thought we'd be spared another assault from the American Taliban - not a chance.

There is a scripture somewhat related to Mike Huckabee and his leaving the ministry as a pastor.

Luke 9:62 NIV - Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."

The "plow" here is a metaphor for following Jesus and doing what he has called you to do. If Huckabee felt that God through the power of the Holy Spirit called him to he ministry and to be a pastor and he left it for politics, he "looked back" to do worldly things.

"...being who He calls us to be will never leave us embarrassed or ashamed."

That's the crux of the problem.

These zealots are imbued with the arrogance that an invisible omnipotent creator of the universe has both the time and inclination to watch their every move in order to decide whether to torture them for eternity or reward them with heavenly grace. God cares about me?? How special I am!

It's such a transparent and innocent child's tale, like Santa Claus: you'd better watch out, you'd better not cry.

But when this fairy tale is operationalized by these zealots, they become pumped up with this holier-than-thou self-righteousness, like Bush thinking God told him his destiny was to invade Iraq and General Peter Pace thinking Bush sits at God's right hand.

And like Bush, they fancy themselves above embarrassment or shame, and therefore have in fact no moral constraints once they've experienced the hallucination that God is speaking to them.

It's even worse. In a demented sort of way, their faith gives them a free pass: John 3:16 says all they need to do is believe in Jesus, and it matters not how many poor people they kick in the teeth or how many Muslims they slaughter, it'll all be wiped clean.

Normally when people hear voices we medicate them before they hurt themselves or someone else. When these crackpots start speaking in tongues, we're not so inclined. Why? Because 80% believe in UFOs, ghosts, and angels, that's why.

Huckabee is a charlatan of the highest order: a combination televangelist and politician, propelled by a healthy dose of this toxic self-righteousness and the lack of introspection it breeds. There is no more dangerous combination.

Why can't the few rational Republicans left see how dangerous this demagogue is? Now a pop star on Fox Hate Channel, Huckabee is a neochristian ayatollah who would "change the Constitution to God's Standards" (meaning his version of cherry-picked scriptures using Leviticus 18:22 for gays while disregarding 20:10 for Senator Ensign and 19:33 for illegal immigrants).

Governor Mike Huckabee is unique, authentic, and quintessentially American. My wife and I have had the privilege of meeting Mike Huckabee on a number of occasions, starting in 1994 while he was Lieutenant Governor of Arkansas. We have watched his career. We have listened to his words and held him accountable in his actions.

Mike Huckabee governed his state well. He ran a strong presidential campaign. His television program showcases a man comfortable in his own skin, open to lively debate with folks of different worldviews while being humorous and respectful. No one who has ever been in a debate or on the television show with Mike Huckabee ever walks away damaged or insulted—rather they walk away with a profound sense of respect and admiration for an opponent of immense character, decency and openness.

Why did two reporters come away with such profoundly different views of what Mike Huckabee said at the Southern Baptist Convention? Because Mr. Huckabee views politics and religion as hopelessly intertwined. Governor Huckabee has a strong moral compass based in his personal faith in Jesus Christ and the evangelical fundamentalist beliefs of a Southern Baptist preacher. Yet, he has a political compass also. He understands Main Street America with its anger against corrupt Washington politics and Wall Street excesses. Mike Huckabee cannot speak in purely religious hues because politics goes to the very heart of America’s moral underpinnings. And he is hard pressed to speak in purely political tones because his fundamental belief of God’s ever-present involvement in our everyday lives includes Washington policies in the broader context of biblical prophecy.

Mike Huckabee is a good man with a keen sense of right and wrong. He has good ole’ fashion commonsense and he relates well to everyday folks sitting at the kitchen table discussing family finances, the education of their kids, and the impact of government actions. He is like no other political or religious figure I know—he is uniquely Huckabee.

Gary Pernice
Platinum Business Group, Ltd

Wow a Multi-Millionare with Multimillionare Backers is , instead of harping on the so-called "iNTELL-DESiGN" {jesus} Story's; Now

Brethren Huckabee & his (not OUR) ARMY is gearing-up for 'The Coming' +/- 2012!???

Sounds like their (not OUR) Themes or Platform/ticket via "Word Merchantizongs", aka "Situational Lieings" is gonna-be

"MORALITY" &
"RiGHTEOUSNESS" &
"CHARACTER" [via JESUS & CO. as a form of Restoration or Enforcement on OUR (not Their) Society/Fabric includes Mental Favric] under the wannabe Huckabee's & CO., tutelage!

Pleazzza Pelegians, please: WE [i] JO{KTANian(s) Automatic Citizens/Denizens of Holy Cosmic but Miraculous NEBUAL-BUILT S.S. Earth, a MIRACLE in Holy Motion, an Awareness who's time via TIME (holyi TEMPerature) is cometh via Prophecy art 1,000 Photonic holy Spectrum Years ahead of YE . not OUR, "Pre-APOCALYPTIC'arians PELEGian man-made (not Natural/innate) Biblio 'light" (not apocalyptic PHOTON) story's!

VOTE: DOWN w/Wannabe HuckaBEE's ARMY! Let's Take the 'Sting' out of Them Today & Put Them out of Business morrow (i.e., 2012 et seq)!

Vote: "APOCALYPTARIAN NATiONAL PARTY" [ANP] for "GRiDARIAN-DEMOCRACT" [G-D] & "TRANS{FiNITE-CiVILIZATION" [TC] & for the "VOTARY ASSOCiATION" via the 'WORLD-FAiTH-EXCHANGE" for World Peace & "HARMONiC-CONVERGENCE" for OUR (not YE) Species NOW!

Remember: the "ULTRA-PARATESTAMENT" of the NEW-SONG (cometh from All Ye Olds), aka the "BiBLE OF THE FUTURE", aka the "RELiGION of Everything, before the SCiENCE OF EVERYTHING"! A Prophecy, as "Promised" US (not exclusive as if for YE) via the Holy Cosmic Inheritance (not Biblio) Story's as foretold in All YE (not OUR) "iNFIXUS-BOOKS" et al!

continued part 1 of 2

CCNL1: Ah, I knew I was reading was your copy-and-paste nonsense the moment I started the second paragraph of your comment. Nice to know that some things never change.

How about you, I dunno, ACTUALLY READ A POST and respond to the content of it for a change, instead of just proving to us all that you know how to press "CTRL-C" and "CTRL-V"?

I sometimes wish the panelists would follow up on their posts after they've been discussed for a while, but then again, a precious few readers give them anything coherent enough to respond to.

Have a liberated day.

part 2 of 2: On: "Wannabe HuckaBEE's Army"

Behold! The "HOLY-i-COSMIC-FEELER's-FAiTH" are Come, as Warned Ye via "O.U.R" great Prophet/Father, of Many like him or hers, Hir ALBERT EiNSTEN [pbuh] saying,

"A Cosmic FEELING [Religion, faith, belief.. "something bigger than themselves" ] will Cometh someday.." [Similar Freudiantly Spaketh for US "E-K-L-A-H-t" nationalis: aka, Lovers & Worshipers awared/conscious of "IT" aka being "iTSELF" in and out of Us All!

Note: "OUR" for emphases means thee "O.ne U.niversal R.eligion" or Faith/Belief innate SYSTEM; not Man-Made] and WE [i] Love our father's Einstein [pbuh] New-Song coming from All ye old Sons via his Prophecy via the Holy-i "QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT" & the "RELATIVITY" Story, Philosophy.

Hark! WE [i] US, not like Ye HUMAN's unkinds, unlike us HU{eMATE's}-kinds art boreneth in A Miracle (not as if Birth via Pelegian-Story's is some un-kinda Sin or Curse or as if Birth Vedically is to Suffer & thus escape Such Pre-Apocalyptic Thinkings; not FEELiNGS ("OUR" iMMORTAL/MORAL Holy-i Frequency Awareness).

WE [i] JO{KTAN-ion's Nationals are Here, not Peleg-ians this thime around in the Prophecy/Histor of Men/Wombs! Soo, Please be not YE in Dwnial to Self nor Others,; especially Loved-Ones Mr. Wannabe, Huckabee & his Armys!!

LiFE [= LOVE] is a Miracle & SEX or Sexual Guilt Story's/Complex's, is not LOVE! Jealousy & hassling over a Name For god(s) iNSTEAD OF [O.U.R.] G-D system must End Prophetically/Inevitably on

Holyi Cosmic NEBULA-Built S.S. GAiA, S.S. EARTH, S.S. GEOID, S.S. TELLUSng something! Onece & Forever; Until OUR Solor/Sun also Dies & WE [i] with it; for another Miraculous Holy Due-To-Be Moment via TIME (TEMPerature, not clocks]!!

HALLALUYA! Praise The HOLYi-NO-MAN/WOMB! Praise "IT"! [never again a "HE" or a "SHE"].

Oye Vay!

Oooopss. Correction:

"Vote: "APOCALYPTARIAN NATiONAL PARTY" [ANP] for "GRiDARIAN-DEMOCRACT" [G-D] & "TRANS{FiNITE-CiVILIZATION" [TC] & for the "VOTARY ASSOCiATION" [VA] via the 'WORLD-FAiTH-EXCHANGE" [WFE]for World Peace & "HARMONiC-CONVERGENCE" for a NEW-AGE" [HCNA]for the O.U.R. (not YE) Species (aka Apocalyptarian Party) NOW!

Thank You! And See You's Next Week!

Sooo; PEACE. PAZ, Mir, Freudin, SALAAM, SH{OLOM, Ahimsa, Shantith, Ahimsa.... AND

Happy Everyday, Happy G-D Hunting & Good Selling"!

eeeee Haaaa! Praise the HOLY-i-NO-MAN/WOMB!

Garypernice says, "Why did two reporters come away with such profoundly different views of what Mike Huckabee said at the Southern Baptist Convention? Because Mr. Huckabee views politics and religion as hopelessly intertwined."

"Hopeless" is the word, all right. What more dangerous politician is there than the one who truly believes that all citizens of a vast, diverse nation like the U.S. should be governed by his god's rules and regulations? Huckabee has said that the Constitution should be altered to fit the tenets of the Bible. Wow. Sounds like a good "ole'" fashioned theocracy to me, like Iran. Garypernice puts it best: "And he is hard pressed to speak in purely political tones because his fundamental belief of God’s ever-present involvement in our everyday lives includes Washington policies in the broader context of biblical prophecy." Riiight. . . (cue Twilight Zone music).

Come on, people. Wise up. Let's make sure Huckabee keeps his commentator position at Fox News by keeping him out of elected office.

(P.S. Why does "do unto others" never include treating gay people with love and respect?!)

Hey DECENTDUST,

Can you please explain to me why Leviticus 18:22 applies to gays but how Verse 20:10 doesn't apply to Haggard, Craig, Vitter and Sanford; and how Verse 19:33 doesn't apply to illegal immigrants?

My request is sincere. I would truly like to understand the right-wing Christian reasoning.

decentdust,

What is it in "the thumping of reality" that you do not understand??? You live with bible thumping so live with reality thumping!!!

I think Livenandlove needs to use more unnecessary capitalization, way more cartoon punctuation, and also dial up the use of hard brackets. (Also, more mystifying ellipsis marks, please.) Without more of these devices, I'm just not convinced Liveandlove knows what s/he is talking about.

Luke /9:61/ Another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but let me first say farewell to those at my home." /62/ Jesus said to him, "No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God."

This passage only appears in Luke's Gospel making it a single attestation and probably something that was not said by the historical Jesus but something added by Luke to turn this simple preacher man into a messiah and/or a godly offspring who knows somehow what is fit for heaven.

Fact:

ECONOMIC's means "CHOiCE" or to "CHOOSE" based on Supply/Demand & Propensity to Buy & or Spend!

Mr. YASHUA, aka Ye JESUS & CO., was in fact "ANTi-CAPITALIST"!

Example: Turning over the 'Pagan loving Beduins" & Pharasee Loving Judeo-Jews TABLES & WARES at the MARKET Place back yonder, in JERUSALEM, and via a Freudian slip of a Fit via Temper, Anger/Rage (the jungle Evil came out of Him briefly so to spaketh) SHOWS US Jo{ktanian NATIONalis (not YE Pelegians) how Anti-Economic & Pre-Apocalyptic Mr. Jesus was/is?! Aslo

Please See Anti-HUMANITY {anti-HU{eMATE] "Satanic Versus", Sura's, Stanza's. Pasiks.., via Mr. Jesus saying,

@ Ye Book of "LUKE" (not OURs) 14:26, "HATE, HATE... la la la Ye own MOTHER/Fathers, Brethrens, Sisters, SELF... AND please see "LUKE" @ 12:51, "Suppose I {Jesus, the god player} come to give PEACE?, la la la.. but I (not i) Come to acsually DIVIDE & make WAR..." [Similar said & Proudly Written & worshipped by POPE [JEALOUSY} & CO.

The POPE & CO. via their "VATICAN-BANKS" shows this World how "GREEDY" the CHURCH is in OUR (not Their) Economy of Scales!

Economics is Everything & Economists Ricado & Smith [pbu them respectfully] had it right! Not Judeo-Chumsh or Judeo-Bible or Judeo-Qurans or Judeo-Gitas or Judeo-Kangyurs..!

ECONOMICS is EVERYTHING!

Note: O.U.R. G-D, by 1,000+ Names & nolonger via 99 names [hence CHOICE of an "IT" not via gods as if be a "HE" or a "SHE"..] is the Omnipresent "iNVISIBLE-HAND" so to spaketh.

REALiTY: The "HOLY-i-NO-MAN/WOMB" [not a He nor a She, but an "IT"] is an ECONOMIST also! So hence the "micro & Macro"s of LIFE's Big Picture in Universe (not Church) & on Holy-i-Cosmic Blesseth Earth (of Many)!

The republican party is still the party of "sink or swim", Only invoking God's name and will as it benefits them.

They do every thing possible to prop up the rich and wealthy, and turn a blind eye to the poor of this country, even in times of dire need, such as this one.

When it comes time to help those poor folks, they invoke the "sink or swim "! As for the rich, "it's , how much do you need"!

You will NEVER hear a REPUBLICAN Quote the verses from the bible.... Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless and comfort the ill. Apparently the republican bible doesn't allow certain versus in their version of God's word!

You will never hear Huckabee utter these words either!

Yes, yes, yes...it's in the hearing, right? When we heard Jeremiah Wright say "God damn America!" ...we were just hearing things? It's all relative, right? God damn America! God Bless America, it's all in how you hear it, right? That will be the defense of Barack Obama when it is proven he was there when Wright said those things - "Well, yeah, but I never actually HEARD him say those things. It's all in the HEARING, DONTCHAKNOW? iT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE MEANING OF "HEARD" IS".

It takes hate to live in hate. Wow, do many of these commenters here live in hate--and in destructive bias and willful ignorance.

This could be a really interesting discussion without the incoherence of Liveandlove and CCNL1. I wish the WaPo and it's editors would police their own sites. If I can find this garbage surely they can too.

Ah well, they demonstrate why religous fanatics are so dangerous. Someone is sure to read something into their posts, just as people read into Rev. Wright's speech and Mr. Huckabee's speech.

Not haveing heard Mr. Huckabee's speech it's difficult to say just what his point was but I have heard Rev. Wright speak.

If Chatard had listened to an entire speech he would know that Rev. Wright did not damn America. Yes, he said those words and so you can hoist that up on your flagpole and pronounce you know what was meant.

However, you cannot deny that the US was a slave-holding society. You cannot deny that America practiced racisim long after emancipation. You cannot deny some aspects of the US attempted to wipe out Native Americans. You cannot deny the US supported child labor and denied women rights. It is that America that Rev. Wright damned and rightly so. We have not always been the shining example we wish to be. If we weren't as bad as some, so what? We have prided ourselves on the words of the Declaration of Independence that ALL men are created equal while denying many men of equality. That America deserves to be damned. We must damn our lesser nature and strive towards our better.

So the bottom line is we hear what we hear. You, Chatard, heard a message of damnation and I heard a message of redemption.

Huckabee is trying to walk a fine line so that all will hear what they want in his speeches. He could end up sounding as incoherent as Liveandlove.

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

-Thomas Jefferson, 1813

"Wall Street did not melt down because it was a money problem. It melted down because it was a moral problem."

Huckabee didn't mention the moral problem and meltdown occurred while conservative republicans controlled congress and neo-cons controlled the white house.

Corporatist republicans ARE NEVER going to put a talk show host on the top of the GOP ticket. Nor with they support a governor from the countries largest welfare state.
Neo-cons used Fundamentalist Christians along with the SCOTUS to get bush elected/appointed in 2000 so christians feel they have pull but fundamentalists don't have the numbers themselves to put Huckabee at the top of the ticket.
The GOP is leaderless as they have been since 1992 and Huckabee does not stand a chance he feels he can make headway by trying to connect POTUS Obama to Jeremiah Wright.

blah blah blah. Nobody cares what squirrel boy has to say. fox news is just trying desperaely to have him in the running in 2012 because his aw shucks stupidity gets ratings. rightards think he is saying something, and the rest of the world just laughs at him. Sort of like when the crazy old uncle starts telling stories and everyone is laughing, but he doesn't ever catch on that they are laughing AT him, not with him.. huckster-be is precisely why the Founding Fathers erected a high wall of separation between church and state.

It seems to me that Jesus spent his time concentrating on matters of religion and prudent behavior. When confronted with matters of politics, he deftly defected the issue and concentrated on his central mission of teaching us how to become better people. (Remember -- render unto Cesear that which is Ceasear's ...) It seems to me that when true Christians meet as a church they concentrate on the teachings of Christ and how to apply those teaching in their everyday lives. Those that deviate from that central mission are missing the point and run the risk of corrupting their institutions devoted to teaching and sharing good works and turning them into man-made political organizations that will eventually stray from the true teachings of God.

Baptists will have to chose between being a church devoted to the teachings of Jesus Christ or a politically organization that uses the symbols and words of Christ as a means of gaining political power. They are not unique. Unfortunately, they are not the first, nor the last who has had to grapple with this intitutional temptation.

I don't think anyone seriously believes Mike Huckabee is more minister than politician. The second identity has largely eclipsed the other. When he speaks, he's running for office.

Mike Huckabee's a protypical guitar-strummin', Bible-totin', Jesus-quotin' Southern politician. And should be treated as such.

I like what Bill Maher had to say last week. The Democratic Party over the past 16 years has moved to center right and the Republican Party has moved to a mental institution. Huckabee is proof enough.

The attack on Christianity just in this post show the hate that people have for the believers in God. Darwinism, secular humanism, is there religions and it's everywhere, preach at schools on television, and in government, then if self and the religions of self is good, why is everything bad?

Huckabee is a profoundly ignorant middle-aged white man who has a snowball's chance of winning any sort of presidential election.

That said, I do indeed hope he runs on the republican ticket in 2012.

Most Americans are sick to death of all that sanctimonious, hate-filled, racist, christian drivel and the christian fringe-right's drive to keep women barefoot, pregnant, and illiterate, and cast men who simply love each other as criminals.

We are seeing a long-needed revolution in this country where people are flatly rejecting all these 2000 year old Middle Eastern superstitions, and embracing thoughtful reason and compassionate empathy for other human beings.

Huckabee is a symbol of the white sectarian hypocrite -- just like Sanford and ilk -- who espouses scripture and promotes punishment and damnation for "the wicked" and then gets caught with little boys, their secretaries, other men, etc., then, as we see Sanford doing now, crying on TV, apologizing, then refusing to leave the office they were elected to using phony religiousness, lies and deceit.

When will these sick dramas end? When we stop supporting these ignorant, intolerant (of others' actions except their own), cowardly, bible-thumping liars and cretins and start educating our youth to think with reason and critical thought -- and not to *believe* everything vomited forth by the rabid, power-mad hypocrites like Huckabee and his SBC cronies.

Enough is enough!

.

America and the world will reap the STUPIDITY Obama is planting. Just like how the world reap the STUPIDITY Clinton had planted a few years back.

Pawlensky and Palin are America's best bet.

Is God part of objective reality?

Posted by: spidermean2 | June 28, 2009 3:10 AM Just like George Bush, I think Huckabee don't realize that the Vatican is the seat of Satan. Once, I've heard him said that he respects the Pope very much. To me, it's a manifestation of ignorance.
Im not so sure about Huckabee if he will turn out to be a good President. ButIm sure he would be better than Obama. Palin would also do much better.
Obama is a very dangerous person. He destroys America little by little. The danger with him is he's destroying America in a "likable fashion". His actions "looks ok" but IT'S NOT OK. Very similar to Bill Clinton. Upto now, many people don't realize the destructiveness Clinton's policy have hurt America.

You, Spidey, are a moron.

OK, since DECENTDUST apparently can't answer my question, are their any Huckabee disciples out there who can tell me why Leviticus !8:22 applies to gays while 20:10 doesn't apply to Senator Ensign and why 19:33 doesn't apply to illegal immigrants?

Sincerely, I would like to understand Christians who believe the Bible is the literal word of God.

Huckabee is basically saying that people who follow his religion are magically made more moral than other people. That if people simply believed in his God there would be no lust, greed, theft, or failure.

I think we can refer to Ted Haggerty, Larry Craig, and Mark Sanford (this is the very short list) for evidence on this.

Lots over very religious people have done terrible things. That's why we have laws to protect ourselves from them.

He is espousing a theocratic message.

Check out how that's working for the people of Iran.

The hilarious irony of course is that the America Mike Huckabee wants to see - where the Constitution will be amended to "look more like the Bible" - is exactly what they already have in Iran. A Bronze Age theocracy where the religious authorities dictate reality, the women know their place, gays don't exist, and modernity is a dirty word.

Now, all you good Southern Baptist women go get your Masters (ie husbands) a beer. The Ayatollah demands this of you. Allah al Akbar, Mike, Allah al Akbar.

self- absorbed thought's reflects that of a Godless person, people like Mr. Maher control the education system, local governments and federal, courts, news papers and television, thy have had it their way with abortion, gay rights, and have ban the christian from most institutions, but the world is full of hate, greed, and corruption. America and the world don't need more relativism.

Scmukabee is preaching his right-wing blather on the foxhatenetwork.

While his buddy hannity is inciting hate for our president across the nation with his fellow sheep, and they are all sure the palin will be the next pres.

GET OUT! The entire crew are crazy!

Huckabee representing "God" on foxhate! Hahahaha!!!

Stupidity and destruction always go hand in hand. Nobody is destroying Obama. The guy along with his leftist advisers are self-destucting.

No need for the GOP to campaign coz Obama's failures will speak for themselves. Lots of failures.

Im sure many people who voted for him were already scratching their heads.

Obama said that "we should not be afraid of the future". That actually depends on what future he is talking about. The future where idiots are at the helm is always very dim.

Chatard:

You said:

Yes, yes, yes...it's in the hearing, right? When we heard Jeremiah Wright say "God damn America!" ...we were just hearing things? It's all relative, right? God damn America! God Bless America, it's all in how you hear it, right?

Yes, Jeremiah Wright Did day that. BUT...did you hear the entire sermon? Did you read it? Or did you hear only that sentence, quoted by a whole bunch of people without context? The CONTEXT is what gives truth to any statement. Without knowing the CONTEXT of Rev Wright's statement, you cannot judge it.

I DID read the entire statement. And I agree with him. In the context he was making it: He was preaching on the psalms. His quote was from a psalm (that's in the Bible, BTW) in which the writer prayed that God would dash little children's heads against the rocks...Rev Wright was right. But you did not know the context did you? And so you jump to a conclusion; Wright hates America. And yet, Rev Wright was calling his hearers, like the prophets and psalmists of ancient Israel, to a higher calling, a desire to be all we can be. Go read the whole thing.

(Without context you get:

Judas went and hanged himself.

Jesus says: Go and do likewise

And what you do, do quickly)

Are we then all supposed to go and hang ourselves? IT's in the bible, after all. But you don't know the context, do you.

Pr Chris

Coloradodog:

You said:

Hey DECENTDUST,
Can you please explain to me why Leviticus 18:22 applies to gays but how Verse 20:10 doesn't apply to Haggard, Craig, Vitter and Sanford; and how Verse 19:33 doesn't apply to illegal immigrants?
My request is sincere. I would truly like to understand the right-wing Christian reasoning.

Dear ColoradoDog: These verses are part of what is called the "Holiness Code" found in Leviticus 17-26. It reflects a priestly tradition that has been incorporated into the Pentateuch (or Torah; Genesis through Deuteronomy).

There are lots of disputes as to its initial intent: Was it meant for all Israel, or for those who wanted to pursue a higher level of holiness, or whether it was meant for priests of the temple.

Pr Chris

Part 2

The bottom line: I agree with you. The holiness code is to be taken in only one way: If a person believes that Lev 18:22 is to be taken literally, then one must take the rest of it as literal truth s well. Otherwise, the reader is at the least, guilty of picking and choosing which texts one will follow.

I believe I have a hard enough time following the intent of the 10 commandments, and Jesus' summarization of them: The sum of the law is to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as your self.

The Holiness code is something that reflects much that is very desirable, but, as I say above concerning Rev Wright's sermons, context is everything. And one of the contexts is the understanding of Lev 18:22. Homosexuality as an inborn, biological condition (what we would say is "homosexual orientation) was unknown to the writers of these texts. Therefore, the verse has to be read in the context of a heterosexual acting in defiance of God's intentions for man and woman. In such readings, I do not have a problem that sex as defiant behavior by heterosexuals is proscribed. I also believe that sex outside of marriage is also proscribed. I believe that the alien within our borders is also a human being and is such to be considered the neighbor whom we love as Jesus commands.

However, I do not accept the punishments proscribed in the Leviticus Code, for the same reasons that I do not accept capital punishment as a means of punishment, either. I believe that the sort of eye for an eye attitude towards punishment reflected in the Holiness Code, which might be nearly 3000 years old now) are not to be taken literally by the followers of Jesus. When Jesus says, in Matthew: You have heard it said that an eye for an eye...but I say to you...I believe it means that Jesus is articulating the results of more than 1000 years since the Levitical code was written, as societies in general have moved away from an eye for an eye, to more humane and honorable means of dealing with one another. I would hope that in this 21st century, we might also give up on the ultimate eye for an eye: War between nations (I won't go into the irony of Bush protesting that in the 21st centuries nations don't invade other nations, during his remarks concerning Russian invasions of their former satellites. That's another story).

Not ever scripture is of equal value, and not every scripture is to be taken literally in the same way. But surely, however one interprets scripture, one cannot take one verse one way, and the next verse another.

Those of you with a different interpretation of the Holiness code and how to understand it, both ColoradoDog and I would like to understand your reasoning.

Pr chris

Then again most Conservative Jews would tell us that Leviticus along with the rest of the OT is all myth!!!!

CCNL1,

The good thing is that one day, definitely, you will come face-to-face with God.

Your speech is so filled with hatred, I wonder...what will you say when you stand before the Almighty?

For your sake, I hope you will kneel and keep your mouth shut.

Pr Chris

Thanks for your rational and helpful reply.

I believe Jesus was the Best Teacher and I try to follow His words from the New Testament (although my intolerance of the intolerant comes out in these posts). In my view, the Old Testament contradicts the New in many ways and if, as you said:

"Not ever scripture is of equal value, and not every scripture is to be taken literally in the same way", who gets to decide which ones to take literally and which ones to ignore and what proof do they have that they are specially chosen by God to make those decisions? That is the bone I have to pick with the likes of Huckabee. Their selection conveniently supports their personal prejudices and political agendas.

To Coloradodog and Calsailor;

It is futile trying to explain the scripture to you. First, you have to be spiritual to understand it. Second, it is always foolishness to those who are perishing.

The prerequsite for understanding God's Word is to first believe Him. Othewise, the scripture will always be foreign and meaningless to you.

rationalista says:(P.S. Why does "do unto others" never include treating gay people with love and respect?!)
The exact same reason it doesn't include treating responsible cannabis users as fellow citizens but instead as pieces of garbage.
Designated victims of that need for scapegoats.

This is a typical right wing rationalization. Clearly the true teaching of Christianity is to help the poor and heal the sick. But the Conservatives want no part of this so they decide to change the message. To be sure, we have a problem with morality. But the right associates morality with a very limited subset of the commandments. They act as if there was much said about homosexuality or abortion in the scriptures (easy for me to avoid as a straight man, I find it easy to keep those) but ignore the harder things which are constantly there like telling the rich to sell what they have and GIVE to the poor, or heal the sick, or turn the other cheek, or turn swords into plows, etc. No, these people say these things so that they can claim to be Christians without following the real teachings of Christ. How many on the right come out against greed and/or hypocrisy which seemed to be big of the agenda of Jesus. When I hear one of them say "we should all pay more taxes so everyone can have good health care, then maybe I will take them more seriously.

Posted by: spidermean2 | June 28, 2009 7:47 PM

"Pawlensky and Palin are America's best bet."

Surely you are kidding...Best bet for what?

Palin is governor of the nations largest welfare state.

Pawlenty as governor was willing to let his states infrastructure collapse. I-35 bridge collapsed killing 13 people because Pawlenty would not raise gasoline tax by 5 cents claiming it would be a hardship on people. I wonder how the families of the 13 people who drowned in the Mississippi river feel about losing their loved ones because Pawlenty wanted to stick to conservative republican's stubborn principles of not raising taxes to repair and rebuild the states failing infrastructure.

To Coloradodog and Calsailor;

It is futile trying to explain the scripture to you. First, you have to be spiritual to understand it. Second, it is always foolishness to those who are perishing.

The prerequsite for understanding God's Word is to first believe Him. Othewise, the scripture will always be foreign and meaningless to you.

Posted by: MGT2 | June 29, 2009 8:18 AM
__________________________

Ah, can't you just feel the Love of Christ oozing through this neochristian's pores? What kind of small and shallow god must I believe in before I try to understand your convenient rationalization of scripture "cherry-picking"?

What kind of small and shallow god would demand automatic belief without understanding first his scriptures?

Nominate your damned hypocrite Huckabee and get your hateful a*s handed to you on a platter again like you did last November.

You are an enemy of understanding and of the Constitution. May you "perish" into a hypocritical hell of constant flatulent prayer meetings trying to convince each other how right you are, and to the eternal negative droning of Fox News.

Oh, PS, F U and your ignorant ilk who can't answer a simple question to defend your bigotry so you just judge and condemn others. F U!

OK, I've calmed down. but am convinced now. You've proven your point. American "Christians" are idiotic bigots not to be understood but to be seriously regarded as a dangerous threat to our Freedom no less than the Taliban.

You are the enemy.

Coloradodog and Calsailor:

Here I will be brief, since I have commented on this ad nauseum, and provided links. Gayness, as we understand it today, did not enter European discourse until the nineteenth century. Lev. 18:22 refers to homosexual rape, which, btw., is not, technically sex, a common practice of victorious armies, who preyed on the vanquished.

See any recent Oxford Study Bible on this.
____________________________
The "New Testament" interpretation of "an eye for an eye" was not current in the first century. See Judah HaNasi. Judaism understood the passage to mean that the punishment must fit the crime. A fitting punishment for murder is not murder. Hence, there is no death penalty in Israel. A fitting punishment for rape is not rape.

Unfortunately, Christians took a text not written by them, not intended for them, unsurprisingly misinterpreted it, since they were not part of its discourse community. Still aren't for the most part since most know nothing of Judaism.

Part 1

ColoradoDog:

I too, am a Christian. As such, I believe that the New Testament serves as context for the way we understand the Old, and not the other way around (which seems to be the way many try and read OT prophecy, as if it serves as corrective to Revelation, instead of the other way around.)

As far as the bible goes, I believe that not every text is of equal value. The most important texts are the ones when Christ is most clearly revealed. This is why John 3:16 is so prized, because it sums the whole of the gospel in one verse. This is also why some of the other verses are of minor importance. (Does it matter if Jesus was walking to or from a particular town, for example, to make the point of a parable.) And there are some texts, such as James, which are mostly moralizing.

If the question is, which verses most clearly reveal Christ and his mission and identity, where do we start? Well, apart from John 3:16, I'd suggest that Jesus' self appropriation of the prophecy of Isaiah, quoted in Luke 4:18-19, is a good place to start: The spirit of the Lord is upon me, for he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.

As to how to interpret any given bible verse? How does it relate to John 3:16 and Luke 4: 18-19. What agrees is more important than what disagrees. Much of what is in the bible is helpful, but some is, frankly, of minor significance. It is part of scripture, and as such is to be wrestled with (one meaning of inspiration: Out of all the texts that claimed at one point to be scripture, what we have today is what the church, over time, accepts as the most clear and accurate witness to the truth of faith), but not taken equally to the keystone verses of the bible.

It is clear that Jesus calls people to come and follow him. Thus, those who are called are clearly to do as Jesus himself did. I would assert that the primary call to discipleship is to try and become as much like Christ as possible. Thus, the call to service and justice are central to any who would call themselves Christians. So many people seem to get so caught up arguing points of doctrine that they have lost the clarity of the call to discipleship.

Pr Chris

Calsailor:

I too, am a Christian. As such, I believe that the New Testament serves as context for the way we understand the Old, and not the other way around (which seems to be the way many try and read OT prophecy, as if it serves as corrective to Revelation, instead of the other way around.)
==================================
It is interesting how unselfconsiously you declare your supersessionist ideology. Be aware that according to Islam, the Quoran serves as a "corrective" to the NT. Islam has just replaced Catholicism as the fastest spreading religion in the world. What went around is coming around and with considerably less violence than the Christians have practiced for the last two thousand years. According to demographic predictions within the next fifty years, you will be attempting to model your life in terms prescribed by Muhammed, who, unlike JC, certainly existed.

Be all this as it may, the Christians have misinterpreted Lev. 18:22 as well as an eye for an eye.

MGT2:

You are making some pretty baseless assumptions. You assert I am not spiritual, and that I am not a believer. Wrong on both counts. I believe Christ, but I do not believe IN the bible. I believe the bible; it is witness to Christ who is the Word of God. So, why don't you try and respond in some way other than just to put people down?

TomFromNJ:

I agree that deeds are a clearer indication of who are followers of Christ than mere words. I believe that I am called to become like Christ, not just an espouser of words, like some who have posted repeatedly with a great deal of condemnation. Do not judge, lest you be judged, is a pretty good working rule of thumb. For all those people who think they have the inside track...well, I'll let them worry about their own future. Matthew 24 and 25 are good reading from time to time, as warning and hope. Too many who claim to be Christian are obviously not familiar with these texts. I'm not from the right, but as a Christian, I believe everyone is entitled to be treated as a Child of God, entitled to all the same gifts that I would want. The golden rule also relates to health care, care of the alien, and acceptance of the homosexual as God's child as well.

Part 2

How do we understand the bible and homosexuality?

As I made clear in my original post, the bible knows nothing of homosexual orientation; thus as XX pointed out, the Levitical text has to do with homosexual rape. Thus, it is a sin, as any rape is a sin, heterosexual or homosexual. It is in the assumption that all men are heterosexual that all references to homosexuality is to be read in scripture, whether it was to the practices of the Greek gymnasium, which is probably what Paul refers to in Romans, or the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The current debates over homosexuality in our society too often do not take into account this lack of definition over the nature of homosexuality.

Farnaz, I agree with you. What the "eye for an eye" group does not wish to see is that it was never a literal system of revenge or vengeance. It was an attempt to ascribe value to loss, so that recompense commensurate with the crime could be made. That is why, to those who understand this, Jesus' statement: "You have heard it said, an eye for an eye, but I say to you, if you hate your brother, you have already committed murder", is only the logical conclusion to the Jewish legal codes of the OT.

A taking of a verse out of its context almost guarantees that it will be understood incorrectly. Much of the hatred that is expressed against gays and lesbians is because the single verse here and there is taken in preference to Jesus' clear command to love the neighbor...and the neighbor is not the one most like us, but the one least like us. In choosing to hate the gay/lesbian, people reject Jesus. Jesus calls us to love one another, not create division and hatred among people.

I just don't have time for that.

Pr chris

Final post: It's after midnight!

ColoradoDog

You might follow the link below: It is the Apostles Creed, along with the "meaning" or explanation that Martin Luther wrote concerning it. As a statement of Christian faith and how it is to be lived and what the gospel is all about, I find it one of the best guides to daily life and hope.

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/little.book/book-2.txt

Cardinal John O'Connor, Archbishop of New York until his death in 2000, chose as his motto: There can be no love without justice.

That to me, is worth remembering. How can I truly love someone, if I do not wish him to have justice? Without working for justice for another, love is just an empty word.

Pr Chris

Did Farnaz actually say that Islam is less violent than Christianity? Granted, it is a newer religion, but I'm not sure it's cornered the market on peaceful religious expression. I'm thinking of bloody self-flagellation, female genital mutilation, denial of rights and education to female muslims, and crazy jihadists.

Maybe the phrase "peaceful religion" is an oxymoron?

Rationalista:

Maybe the phrase "peaceful religion" is an oxymoron?
=========================================
Maybe so, although perhaps not universally....?

Coloradodog:

Since the name of Martin Luther has come up, I thought you might be interested in this charming broadside of his, much beloved of Hitler and his crew. I've posted a link below.

As for Cardinal O'Connor, he was a complex man. His last words reported to the public were, "May the Jews forgive me." He was enormously charismatic. It was only upon his death that the NYC district attorney started going after pedophile priests, in the name of justice. Thus began worldwide enlightenment on the notion that a pedophile priest is a pedophile.

About one thing Cal Sailor is correct and that is justice, that which Christianity tossed out, confusing it with vengeance. Judaism suffers from no such confusion; justice is the foundation of Judaism. Indeed, the words "social justice," much in vogue at present, are redundant to Jewish ears. What other kind is there? And now back to Martin Luther, he who knew not Joseph. . . .

http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm

"WARNING: This is a Notorious Antisemitic Document!

On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
by Martin Luther (1483-1546)"

Translated by Martin H. Bertram"

Huckabee (huck•-a-be) n.
1. One who claims to be “Christian” but is politically and/or religiously closed minded, hateful and intolerant.
2. One who cherry-picks Bible scripture to exploit voter wedge issues like abortion and homosexuality.
3. See also Fox News O’Reilly Catholic.

Farnaz--

You were going to give an example (peaceful religion) that would become the exception that proves the rule, but you opted for obfuscating ellipsis marks instead.

Hmmmm....

Pr Chis

Thanks, but I know the Apostles' Creed by heart having been raised Lutheran.

In regard to Cardinal O'Conner, I hope he was different from Cardinals Mahoney, Law and Rivera who hid pedophile priests.

Peace

Farnaz:

After reading "On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
by Martin Luther (1483-1546)", I think maybe MGT2 is Martin Luther reincarnated. Their words of hatred smell the same.

Rationaista, you write:
Farnaz--
You were going to give an example (peaceful religion) that would become the exception that proves the rule, but you opted for obfuscating ellipsis marks instead.
Hmmmm....
=====================
Not "obfuscating," merely raising a question that, perhaps, another blogger could address, as I am uncertain that I can. :)

I recall a line from a poem by Marianne Moore: "I must fight till I have conquered in myself what causes war."

Meditative practices, deriving from religion, can I think be constructive; I'm not sure the same broad generalization can be made for any institutionalized religions.

Would this were not the case, considering how many adherents they have. Hence, I raise the question.

Farnaz--

As far as the "big three" religions go (Judaism, Christianity and Islam), there is an historic record of oppression and violence that cannot be denied. You're right that the number of adherents of major religions is large and troubling. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that any specific follower of these religions is violent or unsavory--in fact, there are many decent and good individuals who are members of the big three religions. I'm talking about the institutional record. And, I'm wishing that those decent and good individuals would not support those institutions that have such bloody histories.

As for truly peaceful religions? Jain Dharma, the Quakers, and those who believe in a meditative spirituality/consciousness raising may have a shot. Huckabee's brand of brimstone Christianity need not apply, I think.

Only in America, where hallucinations and delusions not only fail to disqualify you from public office... they are in fact a prerequisite to being elected!

I do not understand how the most advanced nation on the planet can follow these religious nutcases willingly. Get with it, people: There is no god, and jesus, mohammed and the other 'prophets' were really just crazy people.

Imagine what bores these people are at dinner....