Political Altar Egos

Jesus' final instructions to his followers, as reported in Matthew 28: "Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

I guess Bible is not that different from Quran. Both seem supremacist. They seem to disrespect and insult people of other faiths. Only good thing is that Xtians are no longer killing and getting killed to spread their message of superior faith.

This is not new for governors of Louisiana, which, not coincidentally, is a notoriously antisemitic state, its contemporary half-Jewish jazz great and his efforts in the wake of Katrina, notwithstanding.

What do I believe? I believe it is nauseating, as was candidate Obama's paid-for Christian populist prayer fests and dial and prays.

There ought to be a law. :

No matter what the Constitution may say, we de facto do have a test for office. The best comment made during the campaign was that of Colin Powell, on the day he announced that he was supporting President Obama. He pointed out that the charge that Obama was a Muslim was false; Obama was in fact a Christian. But then, Powell went on and said: But the right answer was, so what if he IS a Muslim? And he described the photo he had seen of a mother mourning her Muslim son who died serving in Iraq. The real truth is that it does not matter whether or not Obama is a Christian or a Muslim--under our Constitution, there is no test for office. The person's character, not their religious beliefs is what makes one a potential political leader.

Unfortunately, too many people today have missed out on that lesson from civics class, and, in fact, one must be a Christian, and preferably some sort of Protestant Christian, in order to be elected. It would be nice to finally get to the point where the Constitution is actually followed. When our political leaders and candidates go around proclaiming their "orthodox" (wink, wink) views, in order to be elected, we have narrowed our understanding of what it means to be a person of character, and limited those who are potentially available to serve our country, and it is the poorer for it. Both McCain and Obama should have politely told Rev Rick Warren that political tests for office are unconstitutional, and declined to participate in his religious vetting occasion. Perhaps then-Senator Obama felt he HAD to appear, because of the Muslim charges, but it would have been nice if Senator McCain had led the way on this one.

Pr Chris

eliminate the dimwits in the baptist churches and what does the republican party have left? everyone with a brain left or was escorted out the door years ago. once upon a time i believed that the southern baptist convention had become an auxilliary of the g.o.p. now, i think its the other way around.

Jindal doesn't need to be concerned that voters will think he is a closet Hindu. That only applies to Obama and liberals.

I personally don't care if politicians preach religion in church...just don't preach religion in the governor's office.

When will people stop warring over who has the best imaginary sky daddy? When will people stop perpetuating the rituals of cavemen? This is 2009ad not 2009bc.
If you believe in imaginary sky daddies and perpetuate the rituals of cavemen, it doesn't matter if you're Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. You are mentally defective and need some serious help.

Religion is the greatest curse ever visited on mankind, and politicians are the most contemptible examples of the human species. Why wouldn't they go together?

I really like Bob. Bob is a good guy. He can come up to great things. May be not least because and perhaps that His Lord shows him the path. Keep up the good work, amigo.

We do not have a religious test for office, because we do not need one. If the voters of Louisiana think Bobby J is preaching too much, they can tell him at the next election.

Jindal and his right-wing neo-nut colleagues use the 'pulpit' as a whipping tool. They whip their fake followers into a fake frenzy to charge out and carry out their fake will....These folks are false prophets, to use your terms, and should all be herded into the town square and dealt with...

But if the scam continues to work, they'll use it to their last breath. Use the "Family" in DC that runs the "C" street half-way house - they're real believers in these causes - for profit.

All phony - all fake - all the time....good gig if you got it...

I Thought it is a priest who preaches from the pulpit in the Catholic Church?

As for a 40 minute personal talk, that's about 15 minutes shorter than the usual Sunday mass.

"Only good thing is that Xtians are no longer killing and getting killed to spread their message of superior faith." True they do not kill to spread "faith" but they do kill to spread their new religion "DEMOCRACY".

Sadly, the politicians are only sucking up to the ignorance of the American people, who in the main believe that somehow one must be a professed Christian to lead this country and spread American ideals. Should the pols have to do this? Of course not, but it's unlikely they could hold office otherwise--especially in the South. Any elected office-holder who tried to buck the trend and profess religious neutrality, would likely be out of office at the next election.

Look at the image of Jindal. See the dim eyes in an otherwise intelligent face. It's as if the religious infection occurring early in life has suppressed the development of the neocortex, producing a faith cataract over the potential of the modern human brain.

And you can't point this out to them, you can't get them to see it. Try describing red to a person genetically color blind.

To understand the character of the evangelic/fundamentalist read Bob Altemeyer's book The Authoritarian. It will knock your socks off!!! It is free. Either google or use the link below.

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

I see absolutely nothing wrong with some Politicians like Governor Jindal to talk about Christ. As a real Evangelical and not a right wing nut case and some would call me, I believe in the Great Commission of Jesus to go into all the world and preach the Gospel that Jesus Christ, God's only begotten son, born of virgin Mary, lived, suffered under the hands of his generations' religious establishment, enlisted a core group of men to be his disciples, suffered and was condemend and executed when pure and spotless in character and heart. He died, was buried and the resurrected which changed the first century murderer of Christians Saul into a convert called Paul who wrote 2/3rds of the New Testament. Jesus ascened into heaven and awaits to come and rapture back those who are looking for him, those who love God with their whole heart and their neighbor as themselves. As I read some of the other comments I know that many others don't have my world-view but would challenge them to read Francis Schaffer's book "The God who is there and not silent" or " How should we then live" or even Clive Stapleton Lewis' book entitled Mere Christianity as a precursor to evaluating Christianity and their own accountability toward a Sovereign and Holy God.

Oh!Bama preaches his liberalism from a pulpit everyday. Why shouldn't Bobby preach the word of God from a church pulpit?

That's between them, God, and the voters. No one else.

"Should a governor or any elected official be getting out of the office to go evangelize?"

Not in this country, not under this Constitution and not when the taxpayers are footing the bill for the helicopters to get there.

"Oh!Bama preaches his liberalism from a pulpit everyday. Why shouldn't Bobby preach the word of God from a church pulpit?"

That's precisely the problem. Politicians can preach their liberalism - or conservatism, or any other politics - but the constitution probably frowns on word-of-God-preaching by elected officials to the electorate.

Jindal is simply pandering to his constituency, just like Democrats pander to African Americans, gays and lesbians, unions, and socialists. Of course, we can marginalize Christians like we did African Americans for many years and tell them they cannot fully participate in the process. But not even the antichrists responding to this post would advocate that.

Politicians have reduced religious worship into a political crusade against the democrats, especially in evangelical churches.

They are the most vulnerable to allegorical arguments--raising political issues as a biblical battle, thus reducing their religious issues to a political battle.

It's why they are losing membership in their congregations, who needs churches when you can go to townhells?

That's between him, God, and the voters. No one else.

Arancia12 is somewhat correct: The religious test of whether Jindal is Hindu is not important. That test was only relevant to Obama. Thats because we are at war with Radical Islam. NOT radical Hinduism! And with buddies like Wright, Ayers, Van Jones, Zeke "Too many people" Emanuel, etc etc I think a little extra scrutiny is in order, OK? Furthermore, didnt Mr. Pious Obama just meet with a load of Churchmen just last week? I guess the new Oath that politicians take is the Hippocrite-ic Oath.

What bobby Jindal needs to do is shut his mouth and practice what he preaches. For a man who made such a big deal about refusing the stimulus money for Louisiana citizens, he certainly didn't waste a flourish in the public signing ceremony for a stimulus-funded project.

That makes Jindal a liar and a hypocrite, and that he'd deign preach from a pulpit is typical Republican values: all show and no go -- as also exemplified by Ensign, Vitter, Sanford, and the rest of the C Street crowd who've convinced themselves that morals are for the little people, not them, because God hand picked them to lead, and it's with any means necessary.

Jindal's driving pretty hard to the hoop in his efforts to woo Evangelicals and convince them he is just like them.

I've resigned myself to the religious pandering. I'm just wondering if the time will come when a politician will seek the approval of seculars and non-believers. Probably not in my lifetime...sigh.

Only democrats are allowed to inject religion into politics. For republicans it is forbidden.

"For some, Jindal is fulfilling what evangelicals call the Great Commission -- Jesus' final instructions to his followers,..."

So let me get this straight ... Jindel goes to churches to fulfill the Great Commission, teaching those who don't know about God? Isn't that like preaching to the choir?

You know, right wingers always worry about political correctness, but I think this article bends over backwards to not say the obvious, Jindel is pandering to the religious nuts who have proved they will vote for any scoundrel who claims a belief in God and their religious views. Its like shooting fish in a barrel. If he were not pandering this way we'd have to question whether he is a politician.

Yes and he had to b reminded he was a christian by Stephnopalis.I use discernment not judgment and anyone who is for abortion or all the Evil these people are trying to do to us better get back to reading the Bible again and stop twisting and using just verses to suit their opinion.GOD said there will be many that come in my name but I did not send them.He can claim he is a christian all he wants just like Pelosi with her I'am a catholic well I don't think most of them are for abortion but when you let people into the church that do not follow the scripture and want to change the words which is very popular today and if people are like sheep they will listen to anyone who just mentions the name of Jesus and thinks this person is good better think again.Don't be decieved.

This scares me more than Sarah Palin with the witch doctor at her church. This is so inappropriate! This is disgusting to me. And people in this country have the nerve to criticize the theocracy in Iran.

The Christian Taliban attempts to rise again.

meanwhile, unemployment is nearing 10%, we're in two stupid wars, the banks are failing left and right, health insurance companies are rationing and denying service and letting people die in emergency rooms and hospitals all over America, and we're the torture kings.

Way to go Republican Party!!

Is this feature supposed to be Godly? This article seems more political than anything else.

and how is your retirement fund looking today?

Goldman Sachs is looking fine!

YOUR hard-earned retirement fund and TARP went to pay THEM off.

...the p0int is this, the Republican Party is using Christianity to get you to vote against your better interests only to further the interests of a few people that are already rich and want the rest of what you have.

and they are NOT religious...
they are frauds.

Constitution supports all religion!
All Abrahamic religion are monolithic! For example "Christ is the only lord who will lead you to solvation", (in other words,if you do not follow Christ you will go to hell??) etc...

Constitution and monolithic religions are in conflict of each other! NOBODY has the nerve to address it!

Supporting one religion to win the votes of the majority is a political trick!

America is a predominantly Christian country! Being a Chrisitan helps to get those votes ! But is it necessary to be so psuedo.. ??

It seems to me that speaking in religious settings is best viewed in light of the fact that governors and president speak in a variety of settings and on a variety of topics. I'm sure that Jindal speaks to countless civic and professional groups around the state. His message to church audiences is only part of his leadership.
Jindal and Obama are motivated by their faith. How else would we expect them to reach out and express their values? Let them express their views in as many ways as possible. That gives voters more insights into their priorities.

I wish there was a way to have a meaningful discussion in this section. Most of the comments are simply angry, partisan attacks that have nothing to do with the issue. I seldom have the time (or the stomach) to wade through all the ugly insults.

THANKS gaidysozys!!!!!

I downloaded it and it explains everything. We have a rising right wing authoritarian movement in this country. This should be required reading for everyone in this country today, but as a low rwa can I say that with any authority?

If the history of politics, government and the church has taught us anything in the past 20 years it is that preachers, ministers and pastors who enter into politics are not to be trusted. Some of the sleaziest behaviour in recent times has come from those very preachers of the gospel who cannot seem to practice what they preach.

Aside from all of that, anyone who has even a modest understanding of the history and times of our Founding Fathers knows that they wrestled with the role of religion in state affairs and finally concluded that it was best to construct a wall between church and state. Thus, the admonition written into our Constitution that no religious test should be applied to those seeking office.

Try telling that to these fundamentalist wackos who believe that their particular brand of fanaticism should be the template for our government. Not in a million years! Try that and you will have an angry revolt on your hands!

Cost of war in Iraq - $7 trillion
Cost of war in Afghanistan - $2.5 trillion
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It is painful to see that our leaders especially the republican leadership committing the same crime, that we the common Americans, our political leadership and our Generals accused Saddam Hussein, Taliban government of, namely violating the basic tenant of separation of church and state.

Bobby Jindal's involvement in Church is understandable, but highly deplorable.

If this trend continues, sooner than later we will end up sprouting our own Taliban militias around the country.

If the job of the General is to keep his or her army busy, they won't have to go all the way across the world to do that, because the home grown Taliban style militia would be more than enough.

Well as they say there is a silver lining to dark clouds and guess what, once we have our own brand of Taliban style militia in our own homeland, world's Islamic fundamentalist and extremist community will have no use for Bin Laden - thanks to leaders like Gov. Bobby Jindal and Gov. Rick Perry.

RBALDWIN2 writes: All phony - all fake - all the time....good gig if you got it...

You are correct 100%! Bobby Jindal is as phony as a $3 bill! He is what you call an “opportunist” His conversion to Catholicism is motivated only by one thing, ambition. His chances of being elected to anything in a predominately-Christian conservative state like LA, as a Hindu like his parents, are non-existent, and he knew that. Hence, he became enlightened. He literally saw the light. He will not only preach the gospel, but he will personally carry the cross on his shoulder, and crawl on his knees, from Baton Rouge to Washington, DC., if the republicans will nominate him for president in 2012. He will kiss anybody, anywhere, any time, as long as it is politically expedient.
He is the ultimate politician. Don’t look to him for principles or honesty or integrity. Bobby Jindal stands for one thing, himself.

Our founding fathers believed church and state should always be separate..

If the man wants to preach, then let him preach.

If he wants to govern, then he needs to decide between and stick to one or the other.

Many of the criticisms listed in this discussion against Governor Bobby Jindal and President Obama for declaring their Christian faith are from people who are being hypocritical about religion. Whether you worship God, money, power, sex or something else, everyone puts their trust in something.

Belief in God (or not) absolutely affects your worldview, ethics and public policy on a wide variety of issues. No doubt, Christian politicians make mistakes, but does the existence of rotten apples mean all apples are rotten? Yes, in this country we have the freedom to choose whom you will serve. However, atheism is not neutral as many of these comments seem to imply. Perhaps you are deceiving yourself?

If there is no God, your actions in this world ultimately mean nothing. If you are “dust in the wind,” why not become a computer hacker or Wall Street con? Just don’t get caught. I’m not encouraging immoral behavior, only pointing out the ultimate ramifications of your God-free worldview.

But I thank God that Governor Bobby Jindal and President Obama believe in God. More than that, we are blessed as a nation that they (and other leaders) are not afraid to profess the implications of their faith.

As the sixteen year old President of Generation Joshua in Michigan, I am convinced that faith matters in politics.

Oh!Bama preaches his liberalism from a pulpit everyday. Why shouldn't Bobby preach the word of God from a church pulpit?

Posted by: jackp1 | September 6, 2009 6:39 AM

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Looks like you need to study up on the Constitution and Christianity.

Re: "Oh!Bama" ----- Would you like to find in any place in the Gospels [BTW: That's Matthew, Mark, Luke and John] where Jesus of Nazareth ever showed any disrespect to Caesar?

The Constitution speaks to a relationship of Church and State; not the separation of State to political views.

Jesus of Nazareth was a liberal.

Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar concluded with:

A. Someday my name will be on a coin?
B. Rome is [or should be] one nation under God.
C. and render unto God that which belongs to God.
D. None of the above
E. All of the above.

Matthew 21:12 "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,"

True or False: Jesus did this because he was ticked off that God's name wasn't on the money.

True or False: God really wants His Name on coins and currency because it's everything his Son stood for.

Luke 4: 3-8

And the devil said to him: If thou be the Son of God, say to this stone that it be made bread. And Jesus answered him: It is written, that Man liveth not by bread alone, but by every word of God. And the devil led him into a high mountain, and shewed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time;

And he said to him: To thee will I give all this power, and the glory of them; for to me they are delivered, and to whom I will, I give them. If thou therefore wilt adore before me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answering said to him: It is written: .....

A. Those aren't yours. The kingdoms of the world are under the Father.
B. It is written: Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
C. They might be under the devil now, but one day there will be nations under God.
D. All of the above.
E. None of the above.

True or False: The words Jesus Christ are in the Constitution.

True or False: The word God is in the Constitution.

"If there is no God, your actions in this world ultimately mean nothing. If you are “dust in the wind,” why not become a computer hacker or Wall Street con? Just don’t get caught. I’m not encouraging immoral behavior, only pointing out the ultimate ramifications of your God-free worldview."
================================
This implies god can be the only source of morality, which, in my opinion, is incorrect. Long before there was any organized belief in a transcendent being, our ancestors practiced kindness and cooperation - probably to ensure group survival.

If anything, religion has been a source of great conflict and suffering throughout the world's history. Reason and reason alone, cleansed of all supernatural, superstitious belief, will ensure we move the planet forward.

It is sad when a politician goes around proclaiming he is a "Christian" just to get elected. It is sadder still that there are a group of people in this country who still try to hold them to a statement that they are a Christian.

The problem with religion and politics mixing the old predjuices still remain and no matter what they say or what they do they still want to "convert" YOU to their way of thinking. Religion has more restrictions for your personal and public life than any law or bill. And when people stop subscribing to that fact maybe we can get on with a government by the people and for the people and have TRUE freedom of thought.

Apostle Paul prophesied that true Christians will inherit and rule the world. When he said it, they were just a few of them and being hunted.

Unbelievers are simply clueless where this world is going.

Nobody can stop the prophecy. Many will try but will end up being annihilated instead.

The Lord said it Himself that " you can't kick against the prick or thorn". He said it to Apostle Paul when he was still an unbeliever and was hunting Christians.

Dang forgot one...

The Treaty of Tripoli, sent to the floor of the Senate on 7 Jun 1797, read aloud and was approved unanimously by the Senate and signed by John Adams included the following in Article 11:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; "

A. Did not; you're just a liberal trying to trick me.
B. They may have signed it, but just like today no one read it, so they didn't know that's what they signed.
C. They didn't really mean that America wasn't in any sense founded on the Christian religion. They just lied to appease the Muslims.
D, All of the above.
E. None of the above.

I don’t agree Bobby Jindal’s politics, but I think it’s ridiculous to question his faith. So what if he’s Hindu? His faith is between him and his god. Since when has religion become a litmus test for holding a public office? Evangelicals are taking over the political discourse. If these extremist ideologies are not challenged, we are going to end-up Iran like country. Imagine, Thomas Jefferson would have been objected to if we follow these warped logics. The constitution is religion neutral.

The Lord said it Himself that " you can't kick against the prick or thorn". He said it to Apostle Paul when he was still an unbeliever and was hunting Christians.

Posted by: spidermean2 | September 6, 2009 9:57 AM

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It could be 'cause Paul was wearing sandals and a dress. I wouldn't kick against thorns and pricks in that outfit either. But in jeans and hard shoes I've done it many a time.

Oh wait ... it's a METAPHOR! I get it! Now tell me is Christianity the prick or the thorn?

ENEMYOFTHESTATE wrote "Reason and reason alone, cleansed of all supernatural, superstitious belief, will ensure we move the planet forward."

The problem with this reasoning is they end up believing that their great great grandpa was an ape.

ENEMYOFTHESTATE wrote "Reason and reason alone, cleansed of all supernatural, superstitious belief, will ensure we move the planet forward."

My good friend Spidermean2 wrote: The problem with this reasoning is they end up believing that their great great grandpa was an ape.
=============================
Not only that - you and I are probably related as well, if one current theory is true.

Scary, isn't it?

Here is my expereince:
I was going in the metro in DC during non rush hour! An african american lady on a wheelchair got in! She was kind of big built and in her 60s and probably disabled!

She was wearing a golden colored hat ( an imitation of lady di's hat) with elegant looking white crustals! I noticed her hat and complimented her! She said that a hat will always get the attention even though it is not expensive ! She wears them to the church..

Then onwards it was all about Christ and her and negated anything I had to say, almost avoided to look at me, kept looking at other african american who were on the train..
I, a supporter of equality, felt obliged not to hurt her, felt uneasy!

I neither look black nor white, nor christian may be! Which is true, I am a hindu indian american! I have stright hair (non african feature) and darker skin tone (non white feature)..

My looks are Kind of like Bobby Jindal!

I was dressed in a summer suite and behaved in polite and in a modest way!

There was a white young lady sitting across and kept catching my eye now and then with a small smile, so I wouldn't feel descriminated!

When my stop was nearing, I looked straight at her, and said " Christ did not say that he was "God", like everyone he said that he was son of god, like you and me! I do know the same father, his father and mine, the "God"! She was perplexed and "said have a good day sugar"!

My observation: Thank god I knew the word "Christ" to get a co ordial word from her again! Forget about getting a vote.. just a co ordial word!

This an example of state of affair in this country!

When a politician is as humble as Jesus and speaks in a humble manner, then I might listen to them. To paraphrase Solomon in Proverbs: Vanity, vanity all is vanity.

JAMES10 wrote "wait ... it's a METAPHOR! I get it! Now tell me is Christianity the prick or the thorn?

Christianity is not a prick. The statement only says that you're an idiot if you jump off the cliff.

I have a problem deciding if politicians should also preach. On one hand, if they do then we can see how radical they are in their religious beliefs and how it affects their programs and voting. On the other hand, it seems like they should decide if their vocation is preacher or politician.

ENEMYOFTHESTATE wrote " Not only that - you and I are probably related as well, if one current theory is true."

It amazes me when some people would think that it's more plausible for man to have a chimp grandpa than the concept that it needs intelligence to put teeth and tongue to grind and taste the food before it should be digested to become an energy source.

Amazing that they call it "REASON".

Sad.

Bobby Jindal is nothing but a pure opportunist. His 'conversion' to Christianity was to get the illiterate Bubbas in his state to support him. He is a closet Hindu who supports Mother India as Indian Hindus all do. If I were an American I would be concerned.

However, his profession of Evangelical Christianity is even more dangerous. Why? Because it encourages others to start preaching their faith and moving more Xtianity into American life. Something that the country does not need- more religious divides, Creationist nonsense, abortion bombings, etc.

Sure it is true that Atheist fanatics can be just as dangerous as Christian fanatics-just look at what Christopher Hitchens says about religion and his rabid support for Bush's insane wars to see that Atheists can be just as bloody as Crazy Christians like Bush.

Nevertheless, the takeover of the strongest nation in the history of the world is unlikely by Muslims, Hindus or Atheists. It is the Christian fanatics who can in reality take over America and cause the worst damage internationally.

Like Sinclair Lewis once said, “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” Jindal and his type may assure that.

PKENJIGE,

Christ said this :

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh.."

Yes, Christ stated that he was God.

I thought it might be useful in this discussion to actually quote the Bill of Rights since some people are waving the constitution around like a baseball bat and clearly haven't ever actually read it. It says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

What that means is, regardless of whether you think Jindal's "preaching" is a good idea or not, you can't pass a law restricting it. (Although you can certainly remove the tax breaks from religious organizations if you can show they are becoming political organizations instead).

The Bill of Rights not only does not prohibit what Bobby Jindal is doing, it explicitly protects it. Thats sort of the whole point of free exercise of religion, and also why the provision protecting it is immediately followed by freedom of speech. You can't freely exercise your religion if you can't talk about it.

The constitution says absolutely nothing about "mixing religion and politics." You can mix your politics with whatever you want (many people choose whiskey, I believe). Most people seem to think the constitution protects them from having to hear other people's views, beliefs, and inanity. That is simply not the case. Jindal can say, preach, and yell whatever he wants. What the constitution protects is your right to say that he's stupid.

And there absolutely should not be a law. When you pass that law, you end freedom and free dialogue. People always seem to think, when they make statements like that, that they will be the ones who get to decide what speech is permissable. That perspective is as wrong as the perspective of those who think that if we had school mandated prayer, they would get to write the prayer.

JAMES10 wrote "wait ... it's a METAPHOR! I get it! Now tell me is Christianity the prick or the thorn?

Christianity is not a prick. The statement only says that you're an idiot if you jump off the cliff.

Posted by: spidermean2 | September 6, 2009 10:23 AM

======================

I'd like to think you're not serious but you probably are, but there is no rationale interpretation of that passage [even including the context of the full passage] to "you're an idiot if you jump off the cliff."

As you didn't include a chapter verse reference I'm not even sure that you're not quoting from a Johnny Cash song. There are two potential passages in the Acts of the Apostles that might be what you're referring to, but I'm not about to go through and compare the passages in all of the English versions of the New Testament because you're too lazy to put in Chapter verse.

I could write an interpretation of the passages that you might like, but you're so far off on your interpretation I wouldn't waste my time.

By the way, when Apostle Paul prophesied that Christians will inherit and rule the world, he was not advocating war.

It is simply because true Christians are great leaders, helpers and wise. Exactly like their master - Christ.

Who would like to vote for a leader who thinks that apes are our cousins or somebody who would treat a person as third class because he/she is a "Dalit"?

ENEMYOFTHESTATE wrote " Not only that - you and I are probably related as well, if one current theory is true."

It amazes me when some people would think that it's more plausible for man to have a chimp grandpa than the concept that it needs intelligence to put teeth and tongue to grind and taste the food before it should be digested to become an energy source.

Amazing that they call it "REASON".

Sad.

Posted by: spidermean2 | September 6, 2009 10:34 AM

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We get amazed by different things. I find it amazing that people who believe there was an Omnipotent being who created the universe wasn't powerful enough to guide evolution.

The statement of "it's more plausible for man to have a chimp grandpa" is nothing more than a display of scientific ignorance on more than one level.

Ever ponder the way evangelical leaders preach at great length about abortion and gay marriage, but have next to nothing to say about caring for the poor, or about war or the environment or human rights? Do you think this really represents the pure philosophical inclination of their faith?

Separation of church and state protects religion as much (or more) as it protects government. But this principle seems to be lost on the current generation.

The careless manner in which we've permitted religious justification to pollute our political discourse in recenty years is metastasizing in predictable ways. As politics inevitably starts to leak back, political goals are having more and more influence on religious doctrine, and the line between religious leader and political leader is blurring.

As politicians get more and more comfortable with "godtalk" (religious justification of poltical ambition) they also get lazier about aligning themselves with actual religious philosophy, and more inclined to just mold it to thier own interests. And when leaders can get away with justifying their actions as the 'will of god', how important can the mere 'will of the people' be? Theocracy and democracy don't mix very well.

It's not simple a matter of what's appropriate or in good taste. Separation of church and state is a founding principle of our democracy, and it's for a reason.

JAMES10,

Here's the verse :

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Acts 9:5)

It means that it is stupidity to kick against a sharp object or in hyperbole, jump off the cliff or bite a fire. You can't make God an enemy coz it will always be a losing battle.

WITH THE ABUSE OF THE TAX EXAMPT LAWS, CONGRESS MUST END THEM AND LET THOES THAT FILE TAX EXAMPT SIMPLE PAY TAX LIKE THE REST OF US AND SAY WHAT EVER THEY WANT ACCOUNT THEY ARE DOING IT. TAX IS PART OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH. IF IN DOUBT OF THE TAX EXAMPT RULES, CALL THE I.R.S.AND THEY WILL ADVICE YOU. THO SHALL NOT STEAL!

"Gov. Bobby Jindal and other politicians like to preach -- from a pulpit. Should they?"

Of course they should!

It's the best place possible for them to speak their self-righteous, superstitious drivel -- to a crowd that believes in that cowardly crybaby sanctimonious neanderthal garbage.

As long as these cretins keep it indoors with all the other babbling baboons -- where they can do no harm to anyone but themselves -- then power on baby!

Start moving that horrifically callow, death-worshiping cult crap into government -- a government that encompasses ALL religions, not just bible thumping christians -- then we got trouble. Then we got the American Taliban telling us all what to wear and how to bible-babble and 'Do Unto Others As You Would Do Unto Yourself' by bombing the hell out of various places throughout the world with our 'holier-than-thou' amoral, misanthropic, dark-age convictions.

Hypocrites and cretins -- we have enough of them in government already don't we?

.

By the way, when Apostle Paul prophesied that Christians will inherit and rule the world, he was not advocating war.

It is simply because true Christians are great leaders, helpers and wise. Exactly like their master - Christ.

Who would like to vote for a leader who thinks that apes are our cousins or somebody who would treat a person as third class because he/she is a "Dalit"?

Posted by: spidermean2 | September 6, 2009 10:59 AM

========================

There you go with that scientific ignorance thing again. But you don't seem to recognize that the position of the Roman Catholic Church is that evolution does not conflict with the Bible, Roman Catholicism is by far the largest denomination of Christianity and JFK was a Catholic and elected.

You might also recognize from the Bible that Jesus didn't found churches, He founded A church and that would be the Roman Catholic Church.

BTW: Both in Matthew 5 and Psalm 25 the recurring theme is the meek shall inherit the earth. It would be a stretch to claim that either passage refers to Christians as either passage could have been rather explicit. Psalm 25 could have referred to the followers of the future Messiah and of course in Matthew 5, Jesus could have just as easily said his followers rather than "the meek". He made reference to followers in other passages no reason why He couldn't have done it here.

Plus in a spiritual sense what does God care of earthly things. Our reward isn't earthly but rather enjoying being in the presence of God for eternity. Earth is of little import; eternity is important.

Anyway, so you're saying that Paul overrides Psalm 25 and Jesus in Matthew 5? Seems a bit heretical IMO.

Nobody can explain what triggers evolution and yet some people are so sure that apes are their ancestor.

They call that "reason".

If only they can train a chimp to blurt the word "mama" or "dada". They can wait a million years and it won't happen. The chimps would rather climb a tree. That's what they are made for.

"On the last page, our God wins. Our God gets up off that cross. He beats death. He beats Satan. And because of what he's done for us, we can have the gift of eternal life (so) let's recommit ourselves to go plant those seeds of the gospel so that others might come to have that gift of eternal life.">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Our god wins? all religion does is cause more division in a society with plenty of them. and come in between your relationship with god. you hear more about Jesus than you do about god. to think god would make your life as easy as following a book. half the people that follow this book have hate filled hearts, look at the preacher in AZ telling his congregation that he prays that god gives Obama brain cancer. and wants them to do the same.

the real problem with what jindal is doing is that he is using tax payer money, our money, to travel the state in a helicopter and is bringing checks everywhere he goes. something is seriously not right with that picture. so much for conservatism

JAMES10,

Catholicism is NOT Christianity.

A true religion believes in "freedom of conscience" and never thru forced conversion.

Salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism don't believe in the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit and they are all classified as false religions.

JAMES10,

Here's the verse :

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Acts 9:5)

It means that it is stupidity to kick against a sharp object or in hyperbole, jump off the cliff or bite a fire. You can't make God an enemy coz it will always be a losing battle.

===============

He doesn't say it's a losing battle ... See the word "hard". Hard it hard, not impossible. And in fact, as you pointed out it was Paul [or Saul] that was persecuting the Christians. So Paul was kicking the pricks and thorns.

There were other metaphors Christ could have chosen and of course didn't. Certainly, it's true that agriculturally that pricks and thorns were a nuisance, but they could be removed from a crop and controlled. It may be hard, but it can be done.

Paul didn't "convert" to Christianity at this point because it was a logical conclusion. He converted because this spiritual being appeared to him and scared the bejeebees out of him. Now maybe converting upon the appearance of some spritual being is rationale, I tend to view it more as an emotional response after one cleans the poop out of one's pants. Reasonable and expected.

There are elected officials in this country that preach about "Satan"? We are in deep trouble.

"That's precisely the problem. Politicians can preach their liberalism - or conservatism, or any other politics - but the constitution probably frowns on word-of-God-preaching by elected officials to the electorate. "

It's not the word of God. It's the word of their God. There's a difference.

Governor Jindal is a good man.

He is obviously a man of abiding faith, tolerance and good will. I find these qualities refreshing and quite admirable.

JAMES10,

Catholicism is NOT Christianity.

A true religion believes in "freedom of conscience" and never thru forced conversion.

Salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism don't believe in the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit and they are all classified as false religions.

Posted by: spidermean2 | September 6, 2009 11:28 AM

========================

Hot dog. I never said that Catholicism was Christianity. Not sure exactly why you would want to lie about that. Maybe because you're not a Catholic and don't feel obligated to be truthful?

What I said was that Catholicism was the largest denomination of Christianity; Christ founded ONE Church through St. Peter and that church is the Roman Catholic Church.

You're free to belong to any Church you want just as you're free to continue to display scientific ignorance about evolution. I don't expect you to become enlightened about science. I'm saddened that as a so-called Christian that you would impose limitations on the power of God the Almighty. But there's not much I can do about that. If you want to insist that God can't guide evolution you're free to do that. I'm puzzled what make you think you're so smart that you know what the limitations of God so precisely. You can't even get a few scientific expressions of evolution right.

James10,

Paul had a constant communication with God. It was not a one-time event.

There are elected officials in this country that preach about "Satan"? We are in deep trouble.

Posted by: larmoecurl | September 6, 2009 11:31 AM

=================

Let us all pray.

Dear Lord, please do not let larmoecurl obtain any loaded weapons.

Amen.

What's funny is, the article in the Baton Rouge paper (The Advocate) was mostly about Gov. Jindal running-up huge travel costs in his preaching forays, since he prefers to fly to them in state-owned helicopters. That clearly violates the separation of church and state, regardless of what he chooses to preach from the pulpit.

James10,

Paul had a constant communication with God. It was not a one-time event.

Posted by: spidermean2 | September 6, 2009 11:47 AM

==========

Other than your comment is wholly irrelevant to the point made, I think you need to actually read the Acts of the Apostles and see at what point Paul became a Christian.

Overall, your understanding of the Bible and New Testament, in particular, is as bad or worse than your understanding of evolution. And I can't express how misguided your understanding of evolution is other than to say wholly ignorant.

@Farnaz1Mansouri1: Louisiana is NOT a "a notoriously antisemitic state", despite what you may have imagined in your addled mind. Actually, the fundamentalists in our state feel a natural affinity towards the Jewish faith. Hebrew communities in LA fit-in and do quite well, here.

James10 wrote "Christ founded ONE Church through St. Peter and that church is the Roman Catholic Church."

You should read the bible and see for yourself if Peter sound like a Catholic pope.

Reason means listing down the reasons. Tell me what triggers evolution then. Start with proving how can an ape learn to speak the word "mama".

Im an engineer and no engineer knows what is the concept of evolution coz it's fictional. If we knew, we'll bulid an evolving cellphone so it won't become outmoded.

I went to high school with this guy and I'd like to know where he picked up his accent. He certainly did not have this "hick accent" in school. I wish he would be himself instead of trying to fool people into thinking that he's "Bubba" Jindal.

I guess that Jesus didn't call all of you guys sheep for nothing. Politicians will use whatever tool they can to manipulate their audience. Religion is a very big and dangerous tool in this country, simply because you refuse to think for yourselves. Remember, "...by their fruits you will know them..."

Jmaes10,

Don't you find it strange that a man who thinks he came from apes also think he is more capable of understanding the Bible than a believer?

Recently, Prime Minister Harper of Canada indicated in an obscure interview that he was more concerned about what god would think of him than what history might think of him. It made headlines all across the country - generally negative headlines. Canadian politicians know better than to make any mention of god. It is the kiss of death. I consider myself a very well informed Canadian, but I have little idea of what our leaders believe - and, they dare not tell me or anyone else. I like it that way. The constant references to god in American politics always strikes me as supplicating, self serving, phony, dishonest, and, at times, a little scary.

I wish someone who's supposed to be representing all the voters wouldn't publically say stuff like Jindal is in his preaching, it's pretty divisive, but if the voters overall don't have a problem with it, it doesn't much matter what anyone else thinks.

If when discussing religion , a candidate goes beyond stating he supports the First Amendment , he should be disqualified from holding office by anyone who actually does support the First Amendment .

Bobby Jindal is a refreshing change in one of the most politically corrupt states in the nation.

He is neither proselytizing nor inflicting his religion on anyone, but, leave it to the MSM to make a non-issue an issue.

The founding fathers in separating church and state were certainly not implying that our elected officials were to be religionless. They simply were guarding against a state sponsored religious entity like the Church of England.

I'm so sick of the mindless minions that don't get that.

We will not survive as a species until we grow out of our need for a vengeful god.

There is no offense intended here. I cannot discuss this with some friends, because they are believers, know my views, and we co-exist. I don't have Absolute Truth, either. And I have no wish to embarrass them with questions of why they have an invisible companion.

We will not survive unless we adopt the Universal Commandment: Keep your God to Yourself!

But just look - all of our wars have to do with religion and wealth/power. Religion gives us the "right" to commit heinous crimes, for only when one acts for the Universal Good, the Ultimate Grace, can we perform the most terrible crimes.

But it is not all religions that are to blame, usually those Abrahamic ones, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, where a hateful god is full of smiting, stoning, shunning, and all other abuses of human beings. Do they not see the irony?

And all of it is being done in our little, pointed heads!!! Show me the proof of your beliefs! Show me why the rest of the world has to tremble in fear while the "holy" and devout invade, bomb, and commit mass murder!

Please, . .please, if you must have your god, please keep him to yourself, as Jesus said - in your closet, in your minds and hearts, and do not visit him on the rest of us.

Good luck to you, and all of us.

Peace.

If Jindal is genuinely interested in protecting our Constitution, then he should voluntarily decide whether he wishes to serve as Governor or become a preacher. It is a conflict of interest in terms of Church/State separation for him to be using the pulpit to express his thoughts on religion as long as he is in public service.

It is high time that we stop these Fundamentalists from changing what is a strength of American values into another Church-state like we see in Europe, or even worse a totalitarian theocratic nation like Iran.

Governor Booby "...says he attends Catholic masses when he can."

In the absence of being actively in the middle of saving lives -- for example, in a rowboat, plucking people out of flood-waters -- I wonder what Booby thinks PREVENTS him from attending Mass?

He is so lame...

There is a simple answer to the writer's question. Unless anyone who asks can deliver those Sunday sermons, then Booby shouldn't be delivering them, either.

Spidermean:

It would take all the time that's left in the lifespan of the universe to educate you. I don't know why we try. Evolution is a biological process, although people speak metaphorically of products (like cell phones) "evolving," meaning that they are updated, by humans that are actually evolving, to be better than they were before.

Reading is a good antidote for ignorance. You should try reading as much as you can get your hands on, disincluding religious tracts, self-published church-related find-Jesus "books," and anything distributed by the Republican party. Turn off Fox news. Take a Humanities course and a course on evolution at a local college. Read the experts and great authors in those fields (start with Darwin's Origin of Species). Have discussions with others who have taken the time and made the effort to get an education.

That should keep you busy for some time. Then, report back. The change in your discourse should be startling (and gratifying).

Good luck with your mission.

I hear lots of preaching by journalists in their columns, often attacking my religion. Journalists are important formulators of public opinion. Should they preach? In my view, no one needs to pay much attention to either politicians in the pulpit or writers in the media. Freedom allows both to preach, and the audience to tune them out.

"...our God wins. Our God gets up of that cross. He beats death. He beats Satan. And because of what he's done for us, we can have the gift of eternal life..." ... and Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, and he obtained aluminum tubes for making nuclear bombs, and he purchased yellow cake for his bombs, and Obama wants death panels to deny grandma of health care, and Obama wants "socialized medicine," and I'm sick and tired of the constant deluge of BS from these idiots. Who needs them? Hell, I only look at this paper to see what BS they're feeding my family today. I'm sick of it.

Once more:

We will not survive unless we adopt the Universal Commandment:

Keep your God to Yourself!

There is a big gap between whether Gov. Jindal has a right to preach from the pulpit and whether he should do it. The message he sends by doing it goes beyond the actual text and he is smart enough to know it. He wants to signal that here is certain group of people who have an entitlement to direct the affairs of society and that he is among them. Such behavior always end us being a debasement of religion in that it uses its church resources for non-religious purposes. As a Christian, I feel that it is to our shame that so many of us need to be stroked in this manner. If I cannot tell that you profess the values of Christianity by your actions, standing behind a church podium is not going to change anything.

James10, you are on a roll. You should write more. Or do you?

I love it when Bobby J shows up at my church to talk about son of sky chief. I just adore that slack jawed, droopy lower lip of his. It makes his southern accent sound so ethnic and his message so inspirational. Now if someone could just stop him from drooling on himself the picture would be complete.

SpiderMEAN -- Your name says it all!

It is exhausting and disheartening to see all these politicians confuse public morality with mythology-based belief systems. Will one of them stand up and recite the basic tenets of a multi-god system: 1- belief in Odin as the Supreme being and 38 lesser gods at his feet in Valhalla; 2-disdain for those who eat the meat of the sacred kangaroo; 3-women as water-carriers and family servants; and, of course 4-free rein to abuse and murder those who worship The Green Lantern, or The Mother Tree, or others under the sway of False Doctrine. This is what they say when they preach, albeit by definition in a room filled with others who support the same cartoon version of history. Lets start forcing them to focus on governance and budget and reality.

Nothing wrong with a politician delivering a sermon in a church. It's when they preach from the state house that I have a problem.

This is the camouflage some politicians, but specially Republicans, has been using to try to convey the idea that they are realiables individual to whom we can trust. But we knows for sure that there is no case because that is just a posturing to face the next election cycle. Bobby Jindall is the same Governor who asked, "monitoring volcanos", what's that? Somebody has to tell him that was the same as monitoring hurricanes and still the poor guy could not understand. That the guy who wan to run for President, we have to be so maligned to face that prospect. But he might think that if Dubia was president, why not somebody else?. good for the republicans because they bet on the lower tier.

Of course, he should not be doing this nor should any other politician. However, since the conservative right has decided to blow off the constitution because they know everything, I say go ahead but be prepared that churches now need to start paying taxes. Seems to me that the taxes we collect from the churches can be the money that is used for universal healthcare for every citizen in this country who wants it. What a thought, churches actually providing something for the public other than spending the money to do whatever they can to shove their beliefs and views down our sickened stomachs.

Really....which is the "root of all evil"?
Money? . . . or fundamentalist Religions?
They certainly are interlinked, vis Pat Robertson's income?
I say it's a tie Money:Religion, 50:50 !

Bobby? That's not his name. It's not even Robert or Rob. It might be a nickname for those but it isn't.

His real name is Piyush!

If he wanted to be called Bobby, then he should have changed it legally to Robert or Rob or Bobby or Bob.

He is Piyush!

I think the man (Jindl) has the right to believe whatever he believes and that -- in church -- he has every right to profess his faith and religious beliefs. However, no religious leader (or politician speaking in church for that matter) should profess political positions in church as s/he is likely to alienate the parishioners who have different political views and prevent them from being able to hear the religious messages. I know because I left my church when the new pastor immediately started injecting politcial speeches into his sermons about supporting the war against "terrorists" and supporting overall the Republican agenda as claimed by GW Bush and his Administration. From that point on, I was unable to sit still in church or hear anything he said because I was so alienated by his polical positions. In my book, the previous Administration was nothing but a bunch of dishonest, fascist, anti-intellectual, criminal scumbags who manipulated the electorate through the use of religion and phony patriotism. Thus, I also believe politicians should stay away from using religion in their political duties because of the potential for abuse and manipulation.

Oh my, when Democrats do it -- there is no outcry, when Republicans do it - the hypercritical liberal media bales -- really this country needs a media that is not only one side the political spectrum. Like McDonnell and his 20 years old thesis - and the outcry the Post is doing with this - where was your outcry Post, with Obama and Rev. Wright, where was it? You freaking hypercrits - you are not a paper who reports the news - you are a paper who controls the news - well this is America, and the American people REJECT this!

I really can't speak for the folks in Louisiana, but I'd prefer to listen to a preacher who could keep me awake.

if baby Jindal he may be converted christian for political reasons He will do any yhing get electe like most of the politicians.Donot trust his speeches in heart is 100% hindhu

Belief in God (or not) absolutely affects your worldview, ethics and public policy on a wide variety of issues. No doubt, Christian politicians make mistakes, but does the existence of rotten apples mean all apples are rotten? Yes, in this country we have the freedom to choose whom you will serve. However, atheism is not neutral as many of these comments seem to imply. Perhaps you are deceiving yourself?
If there is no God, your actions in this world ultimately mean nothing. If you are “dust in the wind,” why not become a computer hacker or Wall Street con? Just don’t get caught. I’m not encouraging immoral behavior, only pointing out the ultimate ramifications of your God-free worldview.
POSTED BY: KATHERINE-LOHRMANN | SEPTEMBER 6, 2009 9:35 AM
----------------------------------------------------
You are a prime example of what is wrong with christians. So is Spidermean, though he expresses it differently. I don't know any atheist that thinks of themselves as dust in the wind or of no consequence. It is only because christians like you treat us that way. I would match my morality or of other atheists against anyone of any religion. Many so-called christians would not come up to my high standards, certainly Jindal doesn't.

There is no separation of church and state in this country, if you aren't a christian, no need to run for office, you are automatically bad, the litmus test is there. One state and I think it is Tenn. has a law on it's books that says no non-believer can run for public office. No one has ever challenged it. No one needs to, the atheists are unwelcome sign is always out.

Christians have mucked up the world with their 'morality' just as the muslims and other religions. You have made war a popular past time, the earth a garbage dump, indulged in the wholesale slaughter and extinction of non-human life, created a world where almost half live in poverty and disease, a world of hate and anger towards anyone different to yourself, and you brag about how you are the best people with the best morales. Only in your fantasies.

The world will survive your attempts to destroy it, it the rest of us won't, which fortunately will include the so-called religious. Hopefully there will be some life left that will survive and maybe grow into intelligence. It's too bad we won't ever become intelligent.

Whether it's a one God idea or a one man-as-God idea, the cults of personality are always going to lead to destruction. Egocentric belief systems have to have something or someone to vilify in order to justify the greedy selfish needs of those in power that proselytize for the crowd of faithful believers. Give the faithful flocks medals or crosses an an idea of superiority and they'll send whomever the Great leader says to destroy to their death. The selfish monkey has genes of DNA dominance that no God or man can fathom.
America's forefathers tried to open some breathing room from religious/supremacists tyranny but that room is getting smaller each day as reflected by the minds that purport to uphold the principles of our Constitution.
Jindal is just another clown dancing in the circus he so deeply believes in.

Jindal thinks he's doing others a favor by giving them the gift of eternal life by having them believe Jesus died for their sins.
The next step is if he started torturing them on the rack to profess this faith so even though they suffer in this life, they will have a better afterlife

There are countless reasons that Jindal will appeal to wider electorate, but his religion believe should NOT be one of them. Although religion is not a valid criterion for public service for me, the man’s public proclamation for being Christian should put that issue to rest. We are going to end-up with Iran like Republic, if we are not careful with this religion exploitation.

There is nothing inherently wrong with politicians who "have faith." But when their public appearances amount to proselytizing for a particular faith or denomination, it gives the appearance of establishing an official religion -- one that is sanctioned by the government authority they represent. And it follows that the higher the rank of the politician, the greater the 'color of their authority,' and, therefore, the closer their public advocacy comes to being unconstitutional.

There are countless reasons that Jindal will NOT appeal to wider electorate, but his religion should NOT be one of them. Although religion is not a valid criterion for public service for me, the man’s public proclamation for being Christian should put that issue to rest. We are going to end-up with Iran like Republic, if we are not careful with this religion exploitation.

While he is a public official, Pyush Jindal is breaking the law each and every time he steps before a microphone and preaches.

We have separation of churhc and State in america.

The forefathers would be offended by the fundamentalists in politics that we have today and would censure them.

Politicians who are at least exposed to the opportunity for moral grounding are better off than those who function on the basis of ethics and morality that are determined in the expedience of the moment.

That said, one should not expect that such persons are entirely without an agenda and, no one should expect that pols with a religious connection are behaviorally likely to outperform their less religiously connected counterparts. The sad fact seems to be that money, power, and politics are significantly corrosive influences when it comes to moral and ethical behavior.

spidermean said
"Christ said this :
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh.."

This Evangelical thinks Christ wrote the book of genesis. In fact, spidermean is certain of it. Spidermean made a firm point of it here, he/she didn't even have to look it up because he/she is so smart, so holy, so saved it is committted to memory.

Bobby Jindal would never dare to correct her. He could lose a vote. Let ignorance remain in blissful ignorance, as long as you vote republican (right wing authoritarian creed). This is why the outlandish misinformation about health care, the bailout, regulation, cash for clunkers and every single thing obama does will be demonized.

Spidermean replied to James10 the following:

"Don't you find it strange that a man who thinks he came from apes also think he is more capable of understanding the Bible than a believer?"

Spidermean, a "believer" would actually have more trouble understanding the bible than almost anyone (including the apes you so cavalierly exclude from your family tree) because your Faith requires you to view the bible as the 'revealed word of God.' As a believer, you aren't allowed to intellectually question God's word -- so essential to actually understanding whatever truths might be contained in the parables. You're stuck with what your Faith insists you believe.

Anyone else think Bobby Jindal looks like Barney Fife with a 5 o'clock shadow?

Boby Jindal is a by birth a "Hindu." Even though he converted to a Catholicism but he is still a devoti Hindu and that's for sure.
By the way I have no idea how the dumb people of Louisiana chose "The Dumbbest" among them as a Governor. What a shame?

Any time any human tries to live "daily life" by the teachings of any religious doctrine, he/she is not searching for proper spiritual guidance.

One thing that bothers me is the 'Tribal Religions' (religions born in the tribal areas of Mesopotamia) like Christianity, Islam, and Jewish all claim to be THE religion and their GOD is THE GOD. These are not religions, but tribes trying to survive by maintaining their supremacy via numbers. These religions tend to continue this whole concept by either proselytizing (like Christians), preventing people from trying to search for real truth or look at other sources of spiritual information (Islam and Jewish).

It was the way of life at that time. But I cannot understand people even today trying to cling to the same way of life by killing others who don't listen to/follow their "Imaginary savior"

How come only these religions are the ones who think in terms of numbers and tend to kill in its name, while there are several other religions who are more older and have been sustaining without these.

As for Mr.Jindal, he turned out to be a typical Politician (i know I shouldn't have faith in trying to see a good politician :) ). And he is from Louisiana, what do u expect from that state. Sycophancy at its finest when I listen to him. I had some high hopes for him when we was a young politician, trying to come up with solutions to real problems. Now, he has become a complete lune with this religious crap.

Oh my, when Democrats do it -- there is no outcry, when Republicans do it - the hypercritical liberal media bales -- really this country needs a media that is not only one side the political spectrum. Like McDonnell and his 20 years old thesis - and the outcry the Post is doing with this - where was your outcry Post, with Obama and Rev. Wright, where was it? You freaking hypercrits - you are not a paper who reports the news - you are a paper who controls the news - well this is America, and the American people REJECT this!

Posted by: semby

There are those who deeply feel the way you do about Republicans. You preach love and practice intolerance. You pile abuse on Sotomayor for one comment but excuse McDonnell's insulting thesis. You talk about forgiveness but have beaten Bill Clinton's trangression into the dirt. You accept the behaviors of Pat Buchannen, Rush Limbaugh, and those who shout down disagreement at town hall meetings but never raised a comment about Bush's "free speech zones." You excuse McDonnell by saying his thesis is 20 years old but don't excuse Obama for serving on a board with Bill Ayers.

Hypocrisy works both ways. The difference is I have not seen a sitting Democratic governor preach in church.

I can't wait until the Christian taliban finally takes over. They will have start their own 100 years war to figure out whose side god is really on. Will it be Catholic v Protestant this time or Southern Baptist v everybody else? Maybe the president may actually brainwash everybody in his 30 minute speech to schools. It could avert the Apocalypse and tick them all off.

STUCK_IN_LODI

And naturally, you transcend the "average American" in every measurable way?

Thanks for your condescension - it just those with minds as open and as obviously overly developed as yours whom we need to be reminded of who the American people really are.

Thanks!!!

What the article does not say is that Louisiana's governor uses a State Police helicopter to ferry him and his security detail each Sunday morning to a church in a remote corner of Louisiana. Thus, the taxpayers of Louisiana are paying thousands of dollars every Sunday to send this moron on his little junkets around the state. Sounds like the Louisiana I used to know.

Never trust a religious person,

they are driven by pure fear of the unknown. It is a sign of their weakness.

Religious people driven by fear of the unknown? Driven by fear and inspiration from what we know would be more correct. I guess it is up to each to decide if they would rather trust someone who believes he must answer to a higher authority, must make a sacrifice of those things he believes are wrong, and must live by trust themselves- or to put trust in those who put their trust only in scientists and who make no personal sacrifices of 'appetites of the flesh' for a greater good that can only readily be seen by reason and less easily by physical evidence...
In any case, I could discuss that at length, but to the main point:

Political philosophers (who's ideas this nation was based on) including John Locke, the founding fathers, and many since- including John Stewart Mill, made clear that while religious liberty was of upmost importance- and as a protection of which the state should not 'make laws respecting the establishment of religion' it was the right and duty of each person in government to take any opportunity he wished to act on, and tell others of, that which he believed. The only real question of appropriateness then is- does the person truly believe it- or are they pandering?

Spidey:

PKENJIGE,
Christ said this :
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh.."
Yes, Christ stated that he was God.

No, Spidey. The Author of John's Gospel (we'll call him "John" according to the traditional assignment)said this. He was referring to Christ as the "Word", to whom John bore witness. If you are going to get after someone, do it with the correct words.

Christ said:

I am the Way, the Truth and the Light
I am the true Vine
I am the door
etc.

And a variety of other "eigo eimi" ("I AM") statements that the church struggles with as to how literally to take them.

In all four of the gospels (each having their favorites), the references to Jesus are "son of God" and "son of Man". Jesus does not say "I am God", which would have been blasphemy. It is the church that makes that claim.

Pr Chris

but, but, but..
does Jindal have a birth certificate?

Has anyone seen it?

Once a Hindu, always a Hindu, ya know.

Whether or not its fair, the behaviour of some on the religious right has led to a feeling by some that people who introduce themselves as christians are intolerant, hate filled fanatics. It's a shame. There are plenty of good, decent people who think of themselves first asChristians. Their instincts are to help their fellow man rather than judge and in some cases punish.

Whatever the reason, there's no shortage of people who are made either nervous or angry or both when people start preaching. Maybe it reminds them of Bush getting war instructions from God personally.

The fact that we live in a country where there is a separation of church and state makes the answer to this one easy. We, as free Americans do NOT have to have our elected officials practicing their religions in a way that suggests government support.

To all the people getting really pissed off, OK, lets try it with Jewish rabbis or Islamic mullahs. Still OK? Still want a sermon?

Oh, heavens, no! We should leave the reverending AND the politicking AND the strong arm shakedowns AND the race baiting ENTIRELY in the capable hands of the most very reverends Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Hallelujah!

I'm gonna try this again, since even though I posted the First Amendment above, nobody seems to have taken the trouble to read it.

Political speech is the most protected area of speech we have in this country, and the reason for that is that any prohibition on that speech challenges the fundamental principles of free political dialogue the country was built on in the first place. Religious speech is highly protected for exactly the same reason. Our ancestors fought a revolution to establish those specific rights.

Jindal can say what he wants, and anyone who tries to limit that needs to take a remedial constitutional law class, and possibly a remedial history class.

What makes me nervous is not Jindal spouting idiocy from the pulpit, and I'm sure he probably is, because he's a politician; ergo, he's a blowhard until proven otherwise. What really worries me is anyone who thinks that limiting his ability to spout idiocy would make this country a better place.

No one seems to get the fact that if we restrict speech, it is highly unlikely that their particular brand of speech is not going to be the type restricted.

The first amendment prohibits LAWS that ESTABLISH religion. Thankfully, it also unequivocally protects public discussions, rants and diatribes about religion, pro and con. If you happen to be a politician making ridiculous religious assertions you are absolutely within your constitutional rights to look and sound stupid.

The 1st Amendment even protects the rights of those of you who apparently have never read it to make outrageous assertions about what speech can be prohibited under its provisions. If you ever succeed, though, this thing we call a free Republic ends.

To Pr Chris: Right after Jesus said "I am the Door" in John 10:9, He told us in verse 30 that "I and the Father are one". There you have an unambiguous statement from Him about His deity.

To those who are disgusted with religion and Christianity: Much evil has been done in Jesus' name over the centuries. No doubt about it and there is no excuse. It makes Jesus far angrier than we will ever know. But the fact that terrible things have been done in His name in no way invalidates His message: This is that only through Him will the world ever know true life.

So. If you are a follower of Jesus, live a life that reflects it. Do good to others, love everyone -- even if they're not like you, be honest even when no one's looking, and walk humbly in the world. Then His message will be attractive to others and some people will be drawn to Him. Our country needs this kind of Christianity more than ever, I'd say.

spidey says:

Nobody can explain what triggers evolution and yet some people are so sure that apes are their ancestor.
They call that "reason".
If only they can train a chimp to blurt the word "mama" or "dada". They can wait a million years and it won't happen. The chimps would rather climb a tree. That's what they are made for.

Spidey:

The common understanding of the evolutionary tree is that apes and humans (homo sapiens) share a common ancestor, but the two branched off millennia ago.

As to teaching chimps to say "mama" and "dada" you are right, they will never say it, because they do not have the proper anatomical structures to speak homo sapiens. They speak chimp, and they do that better than we do.

It IS possible, however, for chimps to communicate with us and share concepts. They use a version of sign language, and yes, they can understand many concepts. They are estimated to have the cognitive understanding of about a two year old human, if I remember correctly.

Pr Chris

Politicians will do anything to get elected. In most conservative Christian and Muslim countries like US/Ireland Saudi Arabia/Pakistan etc it would be well neigh impossible for a non Christian or muslim to hold public office. In contrast a multi religious democratic country such as India (with 85% Hindu population) has elected Muslim and Sikh Presidents, and the leader of the governing party is a White Catholic. It will be another 100 years before some thing like that can happen in the US. Thus, politicians do what they need to get elected and visit the churches to get elected. Most of the gay and prostitution scandals have been committed by GOP politicians who are then quick to ask for forgiveness in the name of God.

Believe in whomever/whatever you want, your fairy godmother, The Government, or Jeebulusss, but when it comes right down to it, the biggest help you can get/give yourself is the work you do with your own 2 hands, of course, politicians can't really get a cut out of that action, which is why you're supposed to vote for this or that program...and if it's Ayin Thuh NAYIM UV GUHAWID!, so much the better, right? Riiight. Speaking as a heathen nonbeliever, I'm concerned with the dotted line between church and state being blurred, if not obliterated. I say if you want to tend the flock, and do God's work, then go and do that, get your Mother Theresa on, there, and go for it. But, if you're trying to get people to vote for you by making religious or scripture references, how exactly are you different from a theocrat in some other country? Didn't we say that kind of stuff is pretty shaky, ethically questionable, and all that, unamerican, at best? I seem to remember something like that. People may take their oath of Office on the Bible, but I'd just as soon they did so on a dictionary, or Volume I of the encyclopedia, juuuust in the interest of making sure we don't end up with a bunch of superstitious idiots running the show, there.

Zaka Mustafa wrote "Bobby Jindal is by birth a "Hindu", Even though he converted to a Catholicism but he is still a devoti Hindu and that's for sure...."
Mustafa, are you not happy that Bobby converted to Catholicism in the US? If a Muslim had converted to Catholicism in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan it would be a blasphemy and sentencing by a firing squad would be the only way of prison. As a Muslim you probably will never understand freedom of religion or conversion.

What decent American christian would want to be preached to by Bobby Jindal who is a Sri Lankan Hindu? Hindus have nothing to tell us about religion, they are all fanatics.

The GOP platform is utterly antithetical to what Jesus preached in just about every way possible. Other than that, I guess there's no problem with guys like Jindal standing up in a pulpit making a mockery of Jesus' teachings, if there are people stupid enough to come listen to him. I imagine Jindal's sermons would go something like this?

And Jesus said, "if a man be laying by the side of the road sick, or dying, leave him be. To bind up his wounds, to grant him any care, is socialism. The man should get his own damned care, it's sure as hell not MY problem".

And then Jesus went into the Temple where the moneychangers were changing their money, and he raised up his walking stick and his voice and said unto them, "Yo, moneychangers! You guys are SO cool. I just love rich people. When's tee time? Have they cleared all the homeless bums off the course yet? That was such a drag having to play around them last time. Come on, time's a wasting boys!"

And when they asked Jesus, "how shall we deal with our enemies?" he responded. "Do as the neocons will two millenia from now. Do not wait till you know who your enemies are. Bomb the crap outta everyone, even the civilians. Let Allah sort 'em out."

And finally Jesus said, "Go forth, and remember if there is one thing I have told you, it is to love your neighbors as you do yourself. Unless they're gay. Then do everything you can to make their lives a living hell. "

On second thought maybe I would go see Jindal preach. His Republican rendering of the gospel has gotta be one heck of an entertaining twisted parody on the Bible.

What decent American christian would want to be preached to by Bobby Jindal who is a Sri Lankan Hindu? Hindus have nothing to tell us about religion, they are all fanatics.

Posted by: dsrobins

_______________________________________

As if this "decent American christian" is not a fanatic as well.

A governor goes to church and speaks about matters of faith....big deal. Last time I read the Constitution, freedom of religion was for all...including political figures we don't like.

This article reminds me about some caddy moms gossiping at the school bus stop and whispering "Can you believe SHE has the nerve to go to church!?"

Pyrush Jindal is a hypocrite who is ashamed of his given name and PRACTICES EXORCISMS.

This man actually believes that hocu-pocus.

Pyrush Jindal IS DANGEROUS FOR AMERICA.

The first Amendment to the Constitution protects political and religious speech. It does NOT require that people have a religious persuasion when seeking office (the "no test" clause), although we practically do have a religious test in this country: We will elect Protestant Christians, and some Roman Catholics. The occasional Jew (think Joe Liebermann) can also be elected. But the follower of other religions, such as Islam (with the notable exception of Keith Ellison, the first Muslim in Congress, from MN) and especially those of NO religion, has a very hard time even competing for political office.

For those who think that only religious people can have morality that is simply not true. Ethical (and thus, moral) structures can be built upon logic, for example, which justifies a life based around compassion, care for the environment, etc. Religion does not have a monopoly on ethics.

That Gov Jindal preaches on Sunday is not a problem, unless it conflicts with his constitutionally prescribed duties, such as, for example, presiding over a required legislative session, etc. What should be of concern is using State funds to do so. If he is using State helos, etc., without complying with state law to reimburse such usage, that is a concern. As long as his sermons are not mandatory to citizens, there is no problem. However, church norms may also come into play, and the Catholic Bishop of either Jindal's home diocese or the bishop of wherever he is "preaching" may have something to say: Catholic pulpits are limited to Catholic priests and deacons, except in specific situations, even when sisters are lay administrators of parishes in the absense of a priest, they normally do not "preach"; they offer reflections. (a linguistic distinction, in reality), but as a Catholic layman, Jindal's activities in non-Catholic parishes ought to be causing problems for him with his bishop.

JSAN:

You said: To Pr Chris: Right after Jesus said "I am the Door" in John 10:9, He told us in verse 30 that "I and the Father are one". There you have an unambiguous statement from Him about His deity.

From the perspective of today, it might be unambiguous; however, in Jesus' day, his declarations were not as clearly seen to be a claim to divinity. The Sh'ma, "Hear oh Israel, the Lord is One" was THE defining statement of faith, and his declarations to be one with the Father were probably received with the same meaning as his High Priestly prayer in John 17

Pr Chris

There's absolutely nothing wrong with politicians or officeholders speaking at houses of worship - of whatever kind.

I agree that it's a shame that the American electorate continues to impose a religious test - contrary to the Constitution - which overwhelmingly favors Protestant Christians. At least Obama has thankfully finally put an end to at least the White Anglo-Saxon part of WASP. (I can say this as an 11th generation WASP.)

I am a non-practicing Episcopalian, married to a Catholic and raising my chlidren as Catholic.

It is a fact that a huge majority of Americans practice some form of religion. Why should candidates and elected officials be barred from reaching these people where they congregate? Gov. Askew had it right. There's nothing in the Constitution which prevents them from practicing their faith, or from joining others who are practicing their - even when it may not be the same one.

What is the principal spelling of "flaming religious nutcake"?

J-I-N-D-A-L

What is the secondary spelling?

C-L-I-N-T-O-N

Why elect leaders that believe in ancient fantasies? I find the mingling of politics and religion sickening. Let's force everyone to live by biblical scripture for a week. Then we'd see how bible loving they really are.

Our founders created a democratic republic, not a church. So what if they were christian? Most of the christian commandments are not covered in the laws they created. We are not arrested for divorce, swearing, bearing false witness, adultery. Again, thank god.

Since the evangelicals and the catholic priests have been found to be the most corrupt, sexually perverted guys on the planet, and they are "christian", do we really want to rally round those founders as christians? or vice versa?

Bobby Jindal is probably a disincentive to belief rather than an incentive. He is opportunistic about his faith and exploits it shamelessly. Jesus said that people ought to retire to their rooms and pray in secret to have a reward from God and not notice among people. Most of the right wing seems to have forgotten that. I think Jesus would have been embarrassed by the number of people who wear their faith on their sleeves and then vote to cut off benefits to the poor, the elderly and schools. Matthew 25 was pretty clear about that.

Jindal is doing no more or less than what is required of an alien who seeks a public role for himself in the Confederate States of America. Jindal is not white, so he has to communicate with the majority of white Louisianans’ in the only language that they either understand, or, most importantly, trust.

If Jindal spoke in any other way he’d be just another too smart, “godless” foreigner, who didn’t belong over here; and who “had not accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.” And twenty-five miles outside of Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas; and everywhere in Louisiana, that’s all that matters about Jindal.

Come on Mr. Waters, can't you come up with a less lame question that this? Pols of both parties do whatever they think will make them more popular with one group or another, and nobodies opinions are going to change this behavior. One person's pander is another's smart politics. Please find some more interesting questions for this valuable real estate on WAPO's site.

How about some innovative solutions to allow medical pros to avoid some objectionable practices to their beliefs (abortion, birth control) while still helping people who don't share these objections to get the medical care they feel they need? And please, not another right or wrong question on this subject which encourages the polarized to blather on talking past one another.

The author of this article is doing a hatchet job on the GOP's front runner candidate for 2012. Raising questions about someone is usually a smear job in politics and religion.

Almost all of our presidents invoke the Diety in their speeches to the nation. Lincoln was a master at it:

"In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book."

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it."

Now if there ever were an one-term politician - Jindal is going to be jinggle-belling his asssssSSSS right outta office very very soon!!

And what's up with FAUX NEWS AND THESE SO CALLED FAITH BASE RIGHT WING HYPOCRITES OVER HERE IN A REGULAR NEWSPAPER

Here is MY problem. Liberals are anti-morality, and especially are they opposed to anything resembling sexual morality which seems little different to them from 1984.

Conservatives on the other hand, endorse morality, but it comes in a package with Christian dogmas, many of which have little to do with Jesus, and there is a lot of sexual misbehavior by Republican politicians.

Jesus may have said that it is harder for a rich man to go to heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle. But the Republicans are constantly cheering for the rich.

So what we have in America is an immoral party in power opposed by an even more immoral opposition. Heaven help us all!

Who is going to stand up for morality?

Liberals are anti-morality? How dumb of a statement is that? Would that include "liberals" like standford with his affairs? or limbaugh with his drug peddling? or cheney with his torture? Morality is not a political virtue. If one wanted to make a case, Liberalism is far more "moral" than conservatism as an ideology - liberal ideology seeks to care for widows and orphans, stand up to the powerful, provide opportunity to tech a man to fish, not laud and magnify the rich but seek justice for the poor and downtrodden. That sort of thing. WE call our overal system and those we have spawned "liberal democracies," it was Liberalism that brought us some semblance of a social safety net, liberals who fight for religious freedom, liberals who think it immoral for children to lack food, health care, and education because their parents are poor.

So save the moralizing. Conservatives showed exactly how moral they were during the past 3 decades, and in opposing health care are showing again that they have not learned a thing/ jindal is a creepy Kenneth doll. I can't imagine not just getting up and walking out the door of my church forever and finding a decent place of worship if this slime ball showed up to preach.

Apparently, Jindal missed the part in government class about separation of church and state. Although, it seems that more and more Americans are missing that. Could it be because Govt and Civics classes are being banished from school curriculums in the right wing effort to dumb down the country. Frankly, I'm sick of tired of the right wing religious kooks trying to ram their religious agenda down everyone's throat. In fact, they're the reason I've gotten so turned off by religion the past few years. What a bunch of hypocrites. Like the guy who made the moronic statement in a previous comment that liberals are "anti-morality". Excuse me, but that's not only offensive, but just plain stupid. If anything, conservatives are the amoral bunch. After all, these are not people who subscribe to the teachings of Jesus.

People stand behind the Bible, the Koran, and every other religious text when they have something to hide.

If politicians want to preach in their churches, let them, but I'm one who is very uncomfortable with them doing that in a public (i.e., non religious) forum. I think "calsailor"'s comments were well said. And why should we care what a person's religion is, so long as their ethics and morals are strong? A church isn't necessary to know right from wrong...

fr wmaclean:

>I see absolutely nothing wrong with some Politicians like Governor Jindal to talk about Christ....

Your buddy bobby also DENIED glbt citizens basic human rights. Is THAT Christ-like? No, it is not. He needs to be kicked out of office, promptly.

Governor Jindal first needs to step off his NT box and read about the real, historic Jesus. When he does he will find for example that Jesus aka the simple preacher man, according to most contemporary NT exegetes, did not utter Matt 28: 16-20.

e.g.

from Gerd Luedemann

"Matt 28:16-20 The description of Jesus's appearance is minimal, as attention is focused on the content of Jesus' message to the Eleven. Luedemann notes that "the historical yield is extremely meager." He accepts the early tradition that various disciples had visionary experiences, most probably located in Galilee, and that these experiences led to the founding of "a community which preached the resurrection and exaltation of Jesus as the Messiah and/or the Son of Man among their Jewish contemporaries." [Jesus, 255f.]"

For added information, the Governor should also read: http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb018.html

With respect to the foundation of Christianity i.e. Judaism, the Governor needs to review what Conservative Jews have concluded about the historical Judaism.

e.g.

Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

Current crisis:

Realization that the Jews are not god's chosen people.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482